Topic: Non-Elimination Legs

[Coutzy]

Lets ask the question straight from the Horse's Mouth! I *think* there is someone here in RFF who is a producer of the show (saw his name in the credits, I think?). 

With Puddin's knowledge of every elimination ever (She probably knows the bootlist for season 17 already) I wouldn't be surprised if she turned out to be Phil in disguise.

[nathandg0924]

I have to say, BJ and Tyler, Eric and Jeremy, MoJo and Lake and Michelle killed TAR 9 altogether. But the fact that BJ and Tyler won killed the season entirely for me. And the reason why people hate them is because BJ and Tyler had no idea how annoying they were. Had they been an amazing team who's so fun loving and everything, they would have been asked back for Allstars.

But they were not.

Darn those NELs which saved them...

GRRR! How could you you hate BJ and Tyler!!! They're one of my faves! Unless you're just kidding (which I hope you are) and dont use those many emoticons on hating teams!

I doubt they are making these legs NELs  just to save the teams, they probably planned this from the beggining but definitely it was difficult to see their faves (and our faves) eliminated. In the case of the last leg, they probably planned that the leg in Germany be non elimination! Which is why Jordan and Jeff are not eliminated. There were a lot of cases that teams that we disliked were save by the NELs

Warning: Those who hate BJ and Tyler will be in very big trouble with me

[georgiapeach]

Lets ask the question straight from the Horse's Mouth! I *think* there is someone here in RFF who is a producer of the show (saw his name in the credits, I think?). 

NO relation, uycocoa.

[Evan_Weinstein]

i bet you are referring to me, all i can say, that there is a coincidence, however i am 100% chinese native,  the name was given by a german friend of mine, when i was young, as he thinks that i know many stuffs from the bible, so he eventually thinks that my future occupation will be a evangelist (evan), and wein (wine) stein(stone) is another term for pulpit. However i thank Peach for clearing the air here

Lets ask the question straight from the Horse's Mouth! I *think* there is someone here in RFF who is a producer of the show (saw his name in the credits, I think?). 

[theschnauzers]

For the record, I found BJ & Tyler painful to watch, and it was equally painful that they won. I thought their humor if that is what it was to be juvenile.

Coincidence and evidence of deception (which is what would be involved if TPTB were able to switch the legs designated for NELs) are not the same thing. Circumstances and inferences and innuendo are just not sufficient in and of themselves to prove an argument. (Even though politicians do this all of the time, that still doesn't make it valid.)

[Caelestor]

Back to NEL discussion for me.

Does anybody think that the Poland leg was designed to be a TBC, but the flight fiasco forced the producers to break it up?

[mswood]

Add me into the didn't like BJ & Tyler (though I didn't hate them, as I liked that they worked well together, got along with locals, and were competitive), I hated their over the top personality (which to me was extremely grating).  The only problem I had with them winning is something that wasn't their fault but how the ace was designed up until season 12.  Season 1 - 11 featured final legs that we're often easier to win then the average leg of the season itself, when I personally think that the final leg should be the leg that is the most difficult to win.  If BJ & Tyler had run a stronger leg then (even with the end of the leg equalizer) no problem, but they didn't (and this something that has occurred with many of the winners of TAR season 1 - 11, so not picking on BJ & Tyler).  In fact with all the changes to TAR in recent years the single best chance (my opinion of course) is making the final leg having only one point of equalization and that is at the very beginning of the leg.  Thus you live and die on your own ability (and of course random luck).

[mswood]

Back to NEL discussion for me.

Does anybody think that the Poland leg was designed to be a TBC, but the flight fiasco forced the producers to break it up?

That doesn't make any sense.  Why would the flight problem need to break it up?   

In all TBC legs (with one possible exception in season 14) there is a period of time that prevents teams from making forward progress.  This is typically in the same range of the Pit Stop (meaning at least 12 hours though it has been has much as 18 hours).

If you look at the 1st Poland leg, since Teams are giving a flight to take (though none are successful in getting this flight) that would get them to Poland 11:25am.  It took on average a bit over 3.5 hours for teams to complete (but we also had one take  5 hours, another that took 7 and a half to complete the days tasks. 

Now some people think that the general task in Aushwitz could have been done at any time (I tend to think it was deliberately kept at night, when it is closed to the general public).  If that is the case.  Then teams still would have needed that 1pm bus ride to get them their.  And that is clearly not possible (only one team would managed that and that was with a significantly earlier flight then that provided by production).  In fact even the 5 pm bus would have had several teams miss if using the provided flights.

So I don't see why a change from a non elimination leg to a TBC leg (which really they are the same, just one provides sleeping and food for racers the other doesn't.

[mswood]

Because they are crazy Luke.  I honestly think they might have changed an non elimination point in All Stars, but its just a gut reaction.  But that certainly wasn't because who it was racing, but how far another team was behind and how the non elimination occurred later.

How was the Allstars NEL fishy? They used it on U/J for the first one at the F7... but later on at the Final 5... which i thought was supposed to be an NEL.. it was actually an elimination leg and eliminated them.

Many people think it was odd having Uchenna & Joyce get eliminated on Leg 9.  Many thought that was the planned non elimination leg (they were 14-16 hours behind at that point).  Several things that were odd.  Normally when on an elimination leg, if you are hopelessly behind the producers will either cut short your tasks and direct you to the Pit Stop, or have Phil Journey out to you and eliminate you on the spot.  I can't recall a single leg ever letting a racing team continue racing all the way to the Pit Stop (and if Uchenna & Joyce are telling the truth they did the full leg, cookies, and Joyce did Papers) when you are a full 12 hours behind from all other teams.

They do this for non elimination and TBC legs though.

The only problem is that, if it was a non Elim there was still no reasonable means for Uchenna & Joyce to catch up.  The detectives that season figured out that (even with the late flight that Eric & Danielle took) they would not have been able to make that.  That they would have at best still checked into the next leg a full half day behind.

The next leg was a non elimination leg, the next leg was also a non elimination leg (and this was with teams getting those new penalties of needed to finish 1st or suffer a thirty minute penalty).  It just seems reduntant to have two of those back to back.

It seems more logical to have episode 9 be a non elim, then 10 an elimination, then 11 a non elimination.

When you factor in the rest it just looks highly unusual.

And what would have been the difference.  If it was originally a non elim, then in episode 10 Uchenna & Joyce would have been eliminated.  There was no way to change that.  The only difference is that Eric & Danielle wouldn't have been last and thus had to suffer a penalty on that leg (of which they couldn't have been eliminated on any way).  Eric & Danielle still would have been late getting to the tower jump (they still would have been the team yielded), they just would have gotten 2nd place not third.

[mswood]

I think one the huge time difference in that leg due to the complete collapse of the flight plan (for the show, I think the largest the show's ever had) just really makes that instance seem highly suspect.  While I love that teams had to scramble for flights (and not be spoon feed them) this and the air problems of the next episode really hurt that season as a whole.

I actually thought that made that season a lot more entertaining. Those legs would have bored me if not for the insane flight problems.

The flights (along with the selection of a few teams) are the main reason that season wasn't very good. Maybe it's because the troubles eliminated two of my favorite teams, but really, luck-based flight searching basically knocked out them out with no chance to catch up. Not to mention the ramifications it had for the Poland legs.

We're off-topic aren't we?

Wow, I'm surprised everyone thinks the flights killed All-Stars. In my opinion, the unprecedented nature of that event made up for the lack of unpredictability it brought into Legs 6-8. For me it was a few of the teams chosen (but thankfully most fell out early), the three final four legs which were too boring without any eliminations, and the not-so-epic route (and tasks sometimes) that brought AS down.

The reason I hate them is that, this random failure in planning by the race really put teams in an uneven place.  It is one thing for racers to take chances (both good and bad with flights which we saw that season), and I like flights not all being spoon feed to racers.  But we are talking about teams managing (through basic luck) time difference of 12 - 18 hours on two different legs.  It is unusual for events outside the racers control to have such a significant impact on the race.  Take cabs, you can get a bad cab that loses you 15 min up to even an hour (rarely more) yet racers till have the ability to get out and try another.  Hell I don't mind racers driving to the wrong side of a country or driving to the wrong side of a continent, or picking up a local who takes them way of course.  Those are all things they have control over.  It was their choice.  I mean for amounts of that large, that are outside of production and racers control then you might as well just remove all pit Stops and just let teams have a run at it.  I am quite willing to beat that most fans of the show don't want that.  As in many cases the race would pretty much be decided by leg 4 or 5.

[Hooky]

Back to NEL discussion for me.

Does anybody think that the Poland leg was designed to be a TBC, but the flight fiasco forced the producers to break it up?

No, I doubt they were. In fact it was the flights that were the reason why those two legs were shown in one episode, because of Dustin & Kandice leaving before the last few teams were even checked in. I thought it was a really interesting way to do it, actually. Not very traditional, but much more realistic.

But two legs in one episode is not evidence of a double-length leg. In reality I think it was structured similarly to Season 10: the non-elims coincided with TAR 10's non-elims, the Intersection was again on Leg 8, and yes, once again, Leg 8 was an elimination leg. The only difference was the Uchenna & Joyce mercy elimination, which I doubt was originally planned to be that way. Two non-elims in a row with only the Final 4 is kind of anti-climatic.

[Cocoa]

Lets ask the question straight from the Horse's Mouth! I *think* there is someone here in RFF who is a producer of the show (saw his name in the credits, I think?). 

NO relation, uycocoa.

I thought so too Peach. No producer is gonna grace here in RFF with his name as the username. 

BUT BUT BUT, I took a risk, I copied the answers of Evan (from Episode 5) to the RFF PickEm Game, which turned out to be a devasting decision. 

[Jobby]

I have to say, BJ and Tyler, Eric and Jeremy, MoJo and Lake and Michelle killed TAR 9 altogether. But the fact that BJ and Tyler won killed the season entirely for me. And the reason why people hate them is because BJ and Tyler had no idea how annoying they were. Had they been an amazing team who's so fun loving and everything, they would have been asked back for Allstars.

But they were not.

Darn those NELs which saved them...

GRRR! How could you you hate BJ and Tyler!!! They're one of my faves! Unless you're just kidding (which I hope you are) and dont use those many emoticons on hating teams!

I doubt they are making these legs NELs  just to save the teams, they probably planned this from the beggining but definitely it was difficult to see their faves (and our faves) eliminated. In the case of the last leg, they probably planned that the leg in Germany be non elimination! Which is why Jordan and Jeff are not eliminated. There were a lot of cases that teams that we disliked were save by the NELs

Warning: Those who hate BJ and Tyler will be in very big trouble with me

 

Back to NEL discussion for me!

I knew there was something fishy with the Allstars NEL because they just can't have 2 F4 NEL back to back.. that's why i raised my suspicion.
Another one would be M/T getting eliminated in TAR 15.. i think it was meant to be an NEL. Seriously.

[Coutzy]

I have to say, BJ and Tyler, Eric and Jeremy, MoJo and Lake and Michelle killed TAR 9 altogether. But the fact that BJ and Tyler won killed the season entirely for me. And the reason why people hate them is because BJ and Tyler had no idea how annoying they were. Had they been an amazing team who's so fun loving and everything, they would have been asked back for Allstars.

But they were not.

Darn those NELs which saved them...

GRRR! How could you you hate BJ and Tyler!!! They're one of my faves! Unless you're just kidding (which I hope you are) and dont use those many emoticons on hating teams!

I doubt they are making these legs NELs  just to save the teams, they probably planned this from the beggining but definitely it was difficult to see their faves (and our faves) eliminated. In the case of the last leg, they probably planned that the leg in Germany be non elimination! Which is why Jordan and Jeff are not eliminated. There were a lot of cases that teams that we disliked were save by the NELs

Warning: Those who hate BJ and Tyler will be in very big trouble with me

 

Back to NEL discussion for me!

I knew there was something fishy with the Allstars NEL because they just can't have 2 F4 NEL back to back.. that's why i raised my suspicion.
Another one would be M/T getting eliminated in TAR 15.. i think it was meant to be an NEL. Seriously.

I don't believe that Maria and Tiffany's elimination had anything to do with the Detour. If you look at all the other NEL's, they all contain a BIG luck task just before the Pit Stop (Sushi Roulette, Haybales and Find the mini instrument)

[misterblah]

Non elim legs have to be in the race since ther would be more episodes and locations. But I hate it when a back-of-the-pack team is always saved by non-elim. 

[Dånooky]

Non elim legs have to be in the race since ther would be more episodes and locations. But I hate it when a back-of-the-pack team is always saved by non-elim. 

Well...obviously a back o the pack team will be saved by a NEL, since the NEL'd team is usually the last one...

[redskevin88]

Evan Weinstein  (I)
Producer: "The Amazing Race: Donkeys Have Souls, Too (#12.1)". Visit IMDb for Photos, ... Find where Evan Weinstein is credited alongside another name ...

[Wadsy]

I know this topic has not been responded to in many years but I wanted to mention a few things.
I don't believe in the producers saving a favorite team, but I have to question situations where teams were unable to finish a challenge where Phil had to go to their location and eliminate them.

Could any of these been a non-elimination that was changed because that team had no chance of catching up?
TAR 11 Leg 9
TAR 15 Leg 7
TAR 29 Leg 4 (probably unlikely)
TAR 30 Leg 9

Would producers be allowed to do this even?
It's those four episodes above that really stood out to me.

[Declive]

I love that Luke started this thread. 

[claude_24hrs]

TAR 23 Leg 3 was planned to be a NEL but with a late arrival of Chester & Ephraim in Lisbon, this changed into an EL.

[redskevin88]

TAR 23 Leg 3 was planned to be a NEL but with a late arrival of Chester & Ephraim in Lisbon, this changed into an EL.

Source?

[georgiapeach]

TAR 23 Leg 3 was planned to be a NEL but with a late arrival of Chester & Ephraim in Lisbon, this changed into an EL.

Provide evidence please.

[georgiapeach]

Could any of these been a non-elimination that was changed because that team had no chance of catching up?
...
Would producers be allowed to do this even?

NO. In some ways we are considered a game show. Under US laws all All legs are planned well in advance and must be followed.. Things that affect placement MUST be documented.

[G.B.]

Could any of these been a non-elimination that was changed because that team had no chance of catching up?
...
Would producers be allowed to do this even?

See: James & Abba

[OMGitsGARRET]

Wasn't there a rumor that this past season 32 leg 4 was originally supposed to be an elimination, but because of all the taxi problems in Paraguay and Kaylynn & Haley falling so far behind, that it was changed to a non-elimination at the last minute?

Not sure how accurate that was, but I remember seeing that said on here. Do we have any information on that?