Author Topic: TAR 32 ALLIANCE: Brilliant and/or a Bad thing for TAR itself?  (Read 7145 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline dryedmangoez

  • RFF Frantic Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 2367
    • DryedMangoez.com
Re: TAR 32 ALLIANCE: Brilliant and/or a Bad thing for TAR itself?
« Reply #25 on: December 14, 2020, 10:51:44 PM »
This season is very exciting and unpredictable!

Says the alliance apologists.  :lol:

Offline RaceUntilWeDie

  • RFF Frantic Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1274
Re: TAR 32 ALLIANCE: Brilliant and/or a Bad thing for TAR itself?
« Reply #26 on: December 14, 2020, 11:22:01 PM »
IMO, this season's tasks were definitely more mentally challenging than in recent memory, which I still appreciate even after the disaster that is the Mine Five. Season 19 was another mentally challenging season that could've gone downhill if there were an alliance like the Mine Five. After some thought, I realized that there was a shortage of physical/extreme/adventure tasks. Have we even seen teams wear harnesses this season?

I think people are being too harsh on production/design team. Would anyone, whether the viewers or production team, have predicted that there would be a massive 5-team alliance that creates shortcuts in every task possible?

It's a huge shame because I still think this cast is amazing when you consider each team individually. The alliance just soured everyone's taste, unfortunately.


Offline Platrium

  • RFF Frantic Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 3099
Re: TAR 32 ALLIANCE: Brilliant and/or a Bad thing for TAR itself?
« Reply #27 on: December 15, 2020, 10:26:38 AM »
This might sound like a wishlist item, but I wanna propose a solution.

While this alliance may have made the season look bad, I think it gives production the opportunity to introduce new twists. We've seen the U-turn vote, the partner swap, the head-to-head, and it seems like they've been wanting to add new twists into the Race, but they just couldn't figure out anything that will last.

Here's my proposal: Every team is given a pass or a card. This allows teams to send or receive help for a limited number of times until a certain leg. I love the tasks this season, and I can tell the design team is working hard on making these tasks challenging, but some of them might've been too challenging to the point that some teams needed help from other teams. With this twist, helping is still allowed, and maybe even hints from the judge or clue giver. However, once they use up the limited number of times allowed by this twist, they will receive a penalty for sending or receiving help. It's not as overpowered as the fast forward or express pass, and every team has one, so it can't paint a target on one team's back like the express pass did.

I know it can be better to just let go of helping altogether, but looking back at scenarios from past seasons and other franchises, teams helping out one another isn't always bad. It just looked awful here because it was long-term, dominant, and maybe the editing factored into that too.

Offline dryedmangoez

  • RFF Frantic Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 2367
    • DryedMangoez.com
Re: TAR 32 ALLIANCE: Brilliant and/or a Bad thing for TAR itself?
« Reply #28 on: December 15, 2020, 01:09:40 PM »
I don't think the tasks have been particularly more challenging at all. There have certainly been seasons with much more difficult physical and mental tasks. And I think that is one reason the alliance has been so horrible. They can't even complete these tasks on their own. They'd probably all be early boots on any other season which harder tasks and better Legs.

Offline RachelLeVega

  • RFF TAR Updater
  • RFF Frantic Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 3908
  • Fearless of ticket agents - too hot to be handled!
Re: TAR 32 ALLIANCE: Brilliant and/or a Bad thing for TAR itself?
« Reply #29 on: December 15, 2020, 03:37:30 PM »
Here's my proposal: Every team is given a pass or a card. This allows teams to send or receive help for a limited number of times until a certain leg. I love the tasks this season, and I can tell the design team is working hard on making these tasks challenging, but some of them might've been too challenging to the point that some teams needed help from other teams. With this twist, helping is still allowed, and maybe even hints from the judge or clue giver. However, once they use up the limited number of times allowed by this twist, they will receive a penalty for sending or receiving help. It's not as overpowered as the fast forward or express pass, and every team has one, so it can't paint a target on one team's back like the express pass did.
The concept sounds like it could work on paper, but I feel like it's not going to fix another deeper issue of keeping the challenge of a task if every team has this power available to them. It's even easier to band together at that point to apply their "extra hands" to scheme a team into dropping to last which defeats the integrity of a task and the race. Not to mention a lot of tasks just aren't hard enough that an extra hand is a recommendation. We would still be back to questioning alliances on the race with this addition.

I also think the difficulty with this is gauging what can be considered faulty assistance. If one team member eavesdropped or glanced over at someone else doing a portion of a task and then they copied it without interaction, would this count for a penalty if they didn't have this "extra hand power"? I feel like this is where things would most likely go wrong and diminish the prize or privilege of the power. Many teams in the past have done this to correct their trajectory during a task.

I feel like the best solution is to do the opposite, prohibiting help and answer-sharing between teams during tasks and racers altogether unless stated in the clue.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2020, 03:46:19 PM by RachelLeVega »
<3 Family, friends, food, freedom...FULFILLED <3
Countries "raced": Greece (2019), Italy (2017), Switzerland (2017), Taiwan (2016), U.S. (WA 2013, CA 2014, TX 2021, IL all the time)


Offline Bookworm

  • RFF Frantic Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1715
Re: TAR 32 ALLIANCE: Brilliant and/or a Bad thing for TAR itself?
« Reply #30 on: December 15, 2020, 06:02:58 PM »
I agree that prohibition, enforced by a penalty, is the only solution that can quickly change this sharing culture. Information-sharing, like Will & James printing directions for everyone at the Manaus Airport, is much less avoidable, but it could be potent for ensuring that task integrity is maintained.
"Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, nothing is going to get better; it's not" - The Lorax

Offline RachelLeVega

  • RFF TAR Updater
  • RFF Frantic Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 3908
  • Fearless of ticket agents - too hot to be handled!
Re: TAR 32 ALLIANCE: Brilliant and/or a Bad thing for TAR itself?
« Reply #31 on: December 15, 2020, 07:11:22 PM »
I agree that prohibition, enforced by a penalty, is the only solution that can quickly change this sharing culture. Information-sharing, like Will & James printing directions for everyone at the Manaus Airport, is much less avoidable, but it could be potent for ensuring that task integrity is maintained.
I think navigation and transportation hub rules can stay as they are since it's such a gray area that has left room for the Race to really shine and is a big part of its legacy. We've had teams help each other book the same flights and ensure others were on the same flight in the earlier seasons (Rob & Amber during season 7, Linda & Karen and Charla & Mirna, etc.), but it wasn't a repeated thing that got out of hand.
<3 Family, friends, food, freedom...FULFILLED <3
Countries "raced": Greece (2019), Italy (2017), Switzerland (2017), Taiwan (2016), U.S. (WA 2013, CA 2014, TX 2021, IL all the time)

Offline Dånooky

  • RFF's Wasabi Bomber
  • RFF Frantic Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 6849
Re: TAR 32 ALLIANCE: Brilliant and/or a Bad thing for TAR itself?
« Reply #32 on: December 17, 2020, 03:16:42 PM »
I agree that prohibition, enforced by a penalty, is the only solution that can quickly change this sharing culture. Information-sharing, like Will & James printing directions for everyone at the Manaus Airport, is much less avoidable, but it could be potent for ensuring that task integrity is maintained.
I disagree, I think that flat out answer sharing would force teams to stop interacting with one another.

My proposal is to eliminate situations where all teams are trying to figure out the same answer at the same time.

Either have teams separated during challenges or have each team solve a distinct puzzle (life the fish challenge) or have teams compete for limited resources (the turban task) or have all tasks require an action or creating something. I.e. Eliminate tasks that only test *knowing* and focus on those that require *doing*
The story so far:
In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move

Offline theschnauzers

  • TAR Detectives
  • RFF Frantic Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 4255
  • An original TARfly
Re: TAR 32 ALLIANCE: Brilliant and/or a Bad thing for TAR itself?
« Reply #33 on: December 18, 2020, 03:33:50 AM »
Will and James did discuss their research as to forming alliances and what circumstances led them to believe it needed to be done this season.
Some of it is from their preparation (They mention TAR 21 in particular as an example in previous seasons) and the changes in the Race over the season, as implemented this time, every leg starting with an equalizer, and the return of the Yield for (perception) every leg. I’m not going to try to summarize all of their though process described in their media interviews and with Phil but it does seem to support reasoning that their approach to alliances was the cumulative result of how the Race has changed in all 32 seasons. In other words, a natural progression.
-- theschnauzers

Offline dryedmangoez

  • RFF Frantic Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 2367
    • DryedMangoez.com
Re: TAR 32 ALLIANCE: Brilliant and/or a Bad thing for TAR itself?
« Reply #34 on: December 18, 2020, 05:04:40 AM »
Well, the biggest change on TAR over the last couple of years actually has been a devolution instead of an evolution. The Race has been dumbed down and oversimplified. Partly because of budget. Partly because of plenty other reasons.

Which makes the answer sharing and hand holding even more baffling. The Race is getting easier, yet teams can't perform tasks on their own?

Seems like a natural progression (regression?) of society too apparently.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2020, 04:58:30 PM by dryedmangoez »


Offline theschnauzers

  • TAR Detectives
  • RFF Frantic Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 4255
  • An original TARfly
Re: TAR 32 ALLIANCE: Brilliant and/or a Bad thing for TAR itself?
« Reply #35 on: December 18, 2020, 06:44:18 AM »
Well, the biggest change on TAR over the last couple of years actually has been a devolution instead of an evolution. The Race has been dumbed down and oversimplified. Partly because of budget. Partly because of plenty other reasons.

Which makes the answer sharing and hand holding even more baffling. The Race is getting easier, yet teams can perform tasks on their own?

Seems like a natural progression (regression?) of society too apparently.

The changes I’m referencing are over more than a couple of years.
-- theschnauzers

Offline Declive

  • RFF Frantic Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 2494
Re: TAR 32 ALLIANCE: Brilliant and/or a Bad thing for TAR itself?
« Reply #36 on: December 18, 2020, 03:52:58 PM »
Well, the biggest change on TAR over the last couple of years actually has been a devolution instead of an evolution. The Race has been dumbed down and oversimplified.

Sadly i have to agree with this.

But i still trust WRP to turn this around.
100% commitment makes everything easy
99% commitment makes everything hard

Offline ianthebalance

  • RFF Frantic Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1073
Re: TAR 32 ALLIANCE: Brilliant and/or a Bad thing for TAR itself?
« Reply #37 on: December 18, 2020, 03:55:18 PM »
Well, the biggest change on TAR over the last couple of years actually has been a devolution instead of an evolution. The Race has been dumbed down and oversimplified. Partly because of budget. Partly because of plenty other reasons.

Which makes the answer sharing and hand holding even more baffling. The Race is getting easier, yet teams can perform tasks on their own?

Seems like a natural progression (regression?) of society too apparently.

I think it makes sense as the race getting easier means teams are consistently closer to each other which makes it easier to consistently help other teams.

Offline dryedmangoez

  • RFF Frantic Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 2367
    • DryedMangoez.com
Re: TAR 32 ALLIANCE: Brilliant and/or a Bad thing for TAR itself?
« Reply #38 on: December 18, 2020, 05:01:01 PM »
Which makes the answer sharing and hand holding even more baffling. The Race is getting easier, yet teams can perform tasks on their own?
I meant CAN'T.  :lol:
The Race is getting easier, yet teams increasingly can't do the tasks on their own. Basically I'm saying teams are just not as strong and skilled as they used to be. Or they're just lazier.  :funny:

(Thank you for pointing my mistake out peach lol)

Offline stunami

  • RFF Frantic Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 928
Re: TAR 32 ALLIANCE: Brilliant and/or a Bad thing for TAR itself?
« Reply #39 on: December 19, 2020, 09:35:46 AM »
Answer sharing is easy to cancelled without giving penalty:

- Having different work station or different puzzles
- Saying in clue : you can't share the answers (like in the Megaleg detour'S about the 0/1, it was written that you couldn't give the answers to other teams).

Another exemple is to have the person you give the answer to in another room.
For exemple in Berlin for 'the' detour, racers doing the roadblock would rappel down the building and look at the letters, then go inside a small room inside one at a time to give the answer to the clue giver. If they are wrong, they need to start again, if they are right, they leave by another room where all the partners are waiting.
This way, it's impossible to really share, they only way you could 'share', would be to wait between the rappel and answer room, tell your alliance partner ' I will submit this word' and if the alliance partner don't see each other again, then it means it was the good answer, but like it's pretty complicated to cheat lol

Offline Alenaveda

  • TAR Detectives
  • I Live at RFF
  • *****
  • Posts: 11985
  • R.F.F. Game Host Alenaveda's Amazing Race Game 9
Re: TAR 32 ALLIANCE: Brilliant and/or a Bad thing for TAR itself?
« Reply #40 on: December 19, 2020, 11:14:37 AM »
Which makes the answer sharing and hand holding even more baffling. The Race is getting easier, yet teams can perform tasks on their own?
I meant CAN'T.  :lol:
The Race is getting easier, yet teams increasingly can't do the tasks on their own. Basically I'm saying teams are just not as strong and skilled as they used to be. Or they're just lazier.  :funny:

(Thank you for pointing my mistake out peach lol)

What better example of this than an old school TAR team like Colin & Christie coming back fourteen years later and beating two TAR HD era teams to win the race.
"When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains - however improbable - must be the truth." - Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

"No person deserves your tears, and who deserves them will not make you cry." - Gabriel García Márquez