Topic: TAR13 Episode Timeline, Route, Schedule

[georgiapeach]

Thanks apskip!

I'm definitely happy if they are in Santiago for a leg but I'm still trying to make it work in my mind, much less the airports!

Now, let's address these questions one by one:
1. As things stand now, it is likely there was a TBC somewhere in South America. It could have been Fortaleza, but more likely was in Santiago or Santa Cruz after a pitstop in LaPaz.

2. No more legs in South America? Possible but not likely.

Why a TBC please? I thought we did away with those last season?

Why not likely? How can we make it all fit? The whiteboard shows Auckland as 13-04, right? Does that suggest Leg 4? If so, we only have 3 legs in SA....

Santa Cruz is just Phil passing thru, right?

But I can't shake the idea that there must be something in Santiago so I am 

[apskip]

Peach:
I am not familiar with the 13-04 on a white board in Auckland, so I can't help you with the assumption that there were only 3 legs in South America.

I don't recall any announcements indicating that TBCs were dead, but I do recall one for AR12 that NELs were dead. That proved to be rubbish. Two legs have to be one of the other. I prefer TBCs, particularly in an enviroment where there is not enough time for a pitstop, which could be a fourth South America leg in Bolivia or in Santiago.

No, Santa Cruz is not just Phil passing through. It could well be a TBC leg. The flights from LaPaz to Santiago are very time-consuming and the route through Santa Cruz is more drect, more intelligent and faster as I recall(but remember that my recall isn't what it used to be).

Your desire to have a leg in Santiago is directly attributable to the fact that teams show up muddy, which would not happen during a REST DAY in Santiago on April 30.

[puddin]

AHA! Remember 1311?

Matt flies to Auckland next, which from here is 1304. So I guess there are three legs in South America.

(Fred and Brent go to cover 1303, which means Bolivia.)

Cambodia would be Leg 5, and Leg 6 India, or maybe Cambodia Part II. Wow!

Lots of red and yellow on that staircase on the 23rd of April. Task for our racers?

[apskip]

There is a difference between pitstops and legs if AR13 had any TBCs in South America. Howver, since we believe that there were 11 legs and the numbering apparently associates only the first 3 with South America, my argument may be off-base. In 8 days total from Los Angeles to Salvador to Fortaleza to LaPaz and on to Santiago, there should have been 4 legs according to historial standards of how the Amazing Race operates. I think it's still up for grabs with the conflicting hypotheses and data points.

[apskip]

AHA! Remember 1311?

Matt flies to Auckland next, which from here is 1304. So I guess there are three legs in South America.

(Fred and Brent go to cover 1303, which means Bolivia.)

Cambodia would be Leg 5, and Leg 6 India, or maybe Cambodia Part II. Wow!

Lots of red and yellow on that staircase on the 23rd of April. Task for our racers?

Neobie, I have gone to masive effort to discover just where flight 3179 goes. I first narrowed it down to TAM as the airline. Next I had to figure out which was the departing city. It was not Fortzleza as I had expected. It was a morning flight from Salvador to Buesnos Aires:

JJ 3179   Salvador 07:45, Terça-feira   SP(Guarulhos) 10:20, Terça-feira   0   Airbus A321

This must have been on April 25 or possibly the 26th. The choices in GRU are to go to Buenos Aires or to Santiago to catch the transSouth Pacific flight.

[puddin]

I did some digging.........

Bertram, Phil and Hayma Washington are on G3 1600 on the morning of the 23rd, leaving Rio at 10.30am and arriving Salvador at 12.30pm? (We were talking about this back on Page 15.) The two-letter airline code doesn't match, but AA, AH, HA and HH yield flights in Detroit, Algeria, Iceland and Germany respectively.

The race stared on the 22nd. Phil does not even have time to set foot in Sao Paulo, let alone eliminate a team there. Salvador belongs in Leg One!


At the top left corner, Matt leaves Salvador on the 25th on JJ 3179 to Sao Paulo to get to Auckland on the 27th, through Santiago or Buenos Aires. JJ 3895 and LA 5229 for Fred Meyer and Brent Benedetti also get to Sao Paulo, and I have no idea why they need to take separate flights.

[georgiapeach]

...
I reviewed the blog itself and you know what? The blog was posted on 4/26 but as far as I can tell we DO NOT actually have the date itself listed  in the sighting! Unless we can can find out which day had fog delays? I think we assumed the 24th but maybe we aren't right...

From newman 44 at this forum :
My friends have been living in Brazil for the last few months and this is an excerpt from her blog posted on April 26th:

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For those of you who are unfamiliar with the reality TV show, The Amazing Race, it is a competition where people travel all over the world in a hectic rat race to come in first and win the big prize. I..m actually not all that familiar with the show myself but I..m pretty sure they were on my airplane.

This situation happened completely by chance. From Cordoba, we were to have a stop over in Porto Alegre another stop in Sao Paulo and then arrive in Salvador in the afternoon. Because of fog, the airport in Porto Alegre was closed, so we had to detour to Rio and from there, fly to Salvador, which was actually much more efficient and convenient.

At the airport in Rio, we noticed several film crews and people in teams of two, often wearing matching outfits. These two girls from Texas (according to their t-shirts anyway) were wearing matching black biker shorts, bright pink tank tops and a ton of make-up. I think the t-shirt was pretty accurate. Anyway, we noticed them being interviewed by the film crews, acting out dramatic situations and so-on. When it came time to board we talked to some of them and lent one of them our brazil book, although they didn..t give us many details about what they were doing. There was a delay in taking off and one team asked if they could move closer to the front. As soon as they did, all the other contestants tried to do the same. It was kind of annoying becuase I think it delayed our take-off even more. Anyway, at that point, we were pretty confident that if it wasn..t The Amazing Race, it was an amazing race of some sort.
 

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I am trying to confirm the dates but this might take awhile...

Assuming we were wrong about the 24th--would this work?? Building on Neobie's:


Day One - April 22 (confirmed - sightings in Los Angeles & Chicago)
Depart morning from Los Angeles, half connect through Chicago
Travel via Sao Paulo (for some?)  (I also like the idea of looking for a departure time--something similar to the beach tasks we saw before in a previous season as Chateau suggested)
Day Two - April 23
Some Transit Rio en route to Salvador-- arr Salvadore >>Day 1 of Salvador tasks>> Hours of Ops??
Day Three - April 24
Salvador Elevator task>>Pitstop
Day Four - April 25 (confirmed - Nivaldo spoiler)
Depart Salvador in the morning for Fortaleza
Fortaleza Pit Stop in the afternoon
Day Five - April 26
Extended Pit Stop
Day Six - April 27
Depart early morning for La Paz, arriving at night
Day Seven - April 28 (confimed - sightings in La Paz)
Racing in La Paz>>Pitstop?

April 29 depart La Paz

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Newman44 kindly recontacted his friend for us and here is her reply:

"We saw them at the airport in Rio on April 23. I'm not sure of the time but it was probably at around noon. We got to Salvador at around 4pm. They were on that flight. Unfortunatly, I don't have anymore info but I hope that helps."

So we can safely assume now (I think) that all teams arr Salvador on 4/23 lateish afternoon?

So maybe there are some Hours of Op to slow them down?

Anyway, one puzzle solved!   newman! 

[Neobie]

Hmm, the 23rd? Apskip scores again!

It now looks like a TAR4 style start - rush somewhere in the city to pick up staggered tickets, then off across the country you go!

(GOL 1830 from 2.35pm to 4.30pm seems to be the only flight within that time frame.)

[Chateau d If]

Newman44 kindly recontacted his friend for us and here is her reply:

"We saw them at the airport in Rio on April 23. I'm not sure of the time but it was probably at around noon. We got to Salvador at around 4pm. They were on that flight. Unfortunatly, I don't have anymore info but I hope that helps."

So we can safely assume now (I think) that all teams arr Salvador on 4/23 lateish afternoon?

So our Cordoba-sourced tourist diverted from Porto Alegre and would have arrived at the Rio airport at about 9:12 am.  It sounds like they must have missed their chance to get on Gol Transportes Aereos flight # 1600 which left Rio on at 10:30 am.  If so, then they had to wait for a flight that arrived in Salvador around 4 pm.  That would have been Gol Transportes Aereos flight # 1830 which left Rio on at 2:35 pm and arrived at Salvador at 4:30 pm.  They report seeing the Teams around noon at the Rio airport.

This could not have happened on the 23rd because our teams (Pinks in particular) had just arrived at Sao Paulo's airport at 10:05 am.  They were still coming from Chicago on United flight 843.  How could they get from Sao Paulo to Rio by noon?

The earliest they could arrive would be by using LanExpress # 750 leaving Sao Paulo at 12:40 pm and arriving at Rio at 1:45 pm.  So I don't think our teams were seen on April 23rd at Rio.

The fog also supports that it was April 24th.   

Hmm, the 23rd? Apskip scores again!

cold day in Hell

[apskip]

I thought I would take a look at Moscow to St. Petersburg train schedules. There are 10 trains every day averaging an 8 hours transit time except for one express late afternoon, leaving just after midnight to just before midnight:

Train # Departs Dep. date Dep. time Arrives Arr. date Arr. time Travel time Route Class  
038 (Afanasy Nikitin) Moscow Leningradsky 6/07/2008 00:23 St. Petersburg Moskovsky 6/07/2008 08:48 8h 25min

030A Moscow Leningradsky 6/07/2008 01:05 St. Petersburg Moskovsky 6/07/2008 10:00 8h 55min
  
024 (Yunost) Moscow Leningradsky 6/07/2008 12:30 St. Petersburg Moskovsky 6/07/2008 20:10 7h 40min
  
160 (Aurora Express) Moscow Leningradsky 6/07/2008 16:30 St. Petersburg Moskovsky 6/07/2008 21:45 5h 15min  

056 Moscow Leningradsky 6/07/2008 20:10 St. Petersburg Moskovsky 7/07/2008 04:55 8h 45min
  
028 (North Palmira) Moscow Leningradsky 6/07/2008 21:30 St. Petersburg Moskovsky 7/07/2008 05:30 8h 0min
  
052 Moscow Leningradsky 6/07/2008 22:11 St. Petersburg Moskovsky 7/07/2008 05:25 7h 14min
  
026 (Smena) Moscow Leningradsky 6/07/2008 23:00 St. Petersburg Moskovsky 7/07/2008 06:40 7h 40min  

006 (Nikolaevsky Express) Moscow Leningradsky 6/07/2008 23:30 St. Petersburg Moskovsky 7/07/2008 07:00 7h 30min  
002 (Red Arrow) Moscow Leningradsky 6/07/2008 23:55 St. Petersburg Moskovsky 7/07/2008 07:55 8h 0min
  
004 (Express) Moscow Leningradsky 6/07/2008 23:59 St. Petersburg Moskovsky 7/07/2008 08:00 8h 1min

However, assuming that teams went to the Moscow pitstop the afternoon of May 11, the 12 hour pitstop would take the clock to the early morning hours of May 12, the next train departs at 1230 and arrives May 12 at 2010.

This does not indicate that taking the train between Moscow and St. Petersburg would have been a good idea. Flying makes much more sense. There are 108 daily flights listed(I'm sure some of those are code-share duplicates) from Moscow to St. Petersburg that takes 100 minutes. That's the way I would have designed it. AR13 teams could arrive early in the morning and have all day for tasks to complete before 6pm before having a 36 hour pitstop.

[Neobie]

Since an afternoon conclusion of Leg 10 on the 13th precludes any intermediate final leg desination, I suppose we could write off Frankfurt as just a connection point?

Legs 1-6 and Legs 10-11 down, just three more to go!

[puddin]

Do we have any members that are fans of Jokers? The Kazakhstan reference posted on May 11th is still  interesting with the date and all.


btw, you rock Neobie!

[georgiapeach]

Newman44 kindly recontacted his friend for us and here is her reply:

"We saw them at the airport in Rio on April 23. I'm not sure of the time but it was probably at around noon. We got to Salvador at around 4pm. They were on that flight. Unfortunatly, I don't have anymore info but I hope that helps."

So we can safely assume now (I think) that all teams arr Salvador on 4/23 lateish afternoon?

So our Cordoba-sourced tourist diverted from Porto Alegre and would have arrived at the Rio airport at about 9:12 am.  It sounds like they must have missed their chance to get on Gol Transportes Aereos flight # 1600 which left Rio on at 10:30 am.  If so, then they had to wait for a flight that arrived in Salvador around 4 pm.  That would have been Gol Transportes Aereos flight # 1830 which left Rio on at 2:35 pm and arrived at Salvador at 4:30 pm.  They report seeing the Teams around noon at the Rio airport.

This could not have happened on the 23rd because our teams (Pinks in particular) had just arrived at Sao Paulo's airport at 10:05 am.  They were still coming from Chicago on United flight 843.  How could they get from Sao Paulo to Rio by noon?

The earliest they could arrive would be by using LanExpress # 750 leaving Sao Paulo at 12:40 pm and arriving at Rio at 1:45 pm.  So I don't think our teams were seen on April 23rd at Rio.

The fog also supports that it was April 24th.  

I undertand that it is a tight connection...but why not again?

If they arrive SP at 1005 that gives them time to catch the flight to Rio--then the tight bit is getting the  Rio flight to Salvador at 235, right? The noonish time is a little loose..so I'm thinking it could still work?? What am I missing?

I just never like to discount an eyewitness account from a reliable witness...   When I asked abut the date I really emphasized how important the date and time were so I am sure they did their best to give us accurate info....

[Neobie]

Just throwing in another question... Why waste money and force teams to go Sao Paulo, then have half of them connect through Rio, when they could simply allow the teams to get to Rio de Janeiro directly - as Phil himself is doing? To spend that much more cash for forty-odd contestants and crew, to give Phil a four hour headstart? Hmm... there must be something happening in Sao Paulo... but if there is... then the flight would be the next day, wouldn't it?

[puddin]

Why, in season 12, did they send the teams to the beautiful island of Inis Mor only to catch a ferry, rest, retrieve a clue only to send them back to Irish mainland ..... ?

[georgiapeach]

We still don't know exactly 100% though how the teams that didn't go via Chicago got there?

Maybe they had to connect via Sao Paulo to get a better connection?  

[puddin]

To quote Chateau, LAX~


* The gal said there was one team that was 'hippie' like with long white hair (she demonstrated with her hands at mid chest level). 
*They were an older couple, as in, male and female.  She estimated their ages to be 40's or 50's.  She also mentioned the two girls and another team that was just a regular young couple in their 20's.
*I just point blank asked "Where were they flying to?"  And he said "Brazil.     Sao Paulo, Brazil"
*He also confirmed the Hippie couple.  They are old enough to be originals from the 60's.
*He said there were 5 teams going via UA and 6 teams via AA.
*So there you have it:   11 teams of two.  Off to their first destination in Sao Paulo.

[apskip]

This calls for some hard airline flight information to narrow the issue. The best route to Rio (airport code GIG) from Chicago is very simple; it goes through Sao Paulo (GRU), ORD GRU UA843 2132 1005+1 connecting with GRU GIG    UA861 1035 1145. There is no comparable flight through DFW. There is a flight to Miami leaving DFW at 1735, connecting and getting to GIG at 0830. However, there are no afternoon flights you can take to get to DFW from LAX in time to make that connection. You miss it by about one hour as a flight from LAX leaves 1230 and arrives DFW 1745.

From GRU to Salvador (SSA), you have these flights:
JJ 3172 1310 1550
G3 1884 1350 1605
G3 1776 1545 1855
JJ 3894 1600 1825
G3 1816 1610 1825

From GIG to SSA, you have these flights:
JJ 3192 1233 1433
G3 1830 1435 1630
G31602 1610 1810

So, why would any AR13 team want to go through Rio de Janeiro unless there was some unusual situation that booked up all the GRU SSA flgihts?

[Neobie]

Perhaps the invisible hand of production?

If we're doing the first-leg-pick-a-ticket-or-sign-up-for-timings-charter-debunching thing we usually do, TPTB might want to arrange for mandatory timings that arrive within narrow timings. The 4.30pm arrival the girls take through Rio would couple well with the 3.50pm and 4.05pm arrivals on the direct flights from Sao Paulo...

Apskip, would you be able to figure out how Phil got from LA to Rio to be able to catch his 10.30am flight to Salvador on the 23rd - the one we have on the whiteboard?

[georgiapeach]

I'm totally blanking on this...

Can you point me to where we saw Phil in Rio on the 23rd please??

[Kiwi Jay]

...omg

[puddin]

...omg

omg what?

Hey peach..........

Bertram, Phil and Hayma Washington are on G3 1600 on the morning of the 23rd, leaving Rio at 10.30am and arriving Salvador at 12.30pm? (We were talking about this back on Page 15.) The two-letter airline code doesn't match, but AA, AH, HA and HH yield flights in Detroit, Algeria, Iceland and Germany respectively.

The race stared on the 22nd. Phil does not even have time to set foot in Sao Paulo, let alone eliminate a team there. Salvador belongs in Leg One!


At the top left corner, Matt leaves Salvador on the 25th on JJ 3179 to Sao Paulo to get to Auckland on the 27th, through Santiago or Buenos Aires. JJ 3895 and LA 5229 for Fred Meyer and Brent Benedetti also get to Sao Paulo, and I have no idea why they need to take separate flights.

[Kiwi Jay]

visa versa puddin... I was also wondering Survivor Gabons release date has been set to Sept.18, has TAR 13 been released as on Survivor Fever it said something like schedules released would that refer to TAR also....

[puddin]

visa versa puddin... I was also wondering Survivor Gabons release date has been set to Sept.18, has TAR 13 been released as on Survivor Fever it said something like schedules released would that refer to TAR also....

Start here.

[georgiapeach]

Thanks! I couldn't remember where that came from! 

But if Phil isn't in Sao Paulo at all, then at most that is just a quick stop to grab a clue place, right? Or perhaps still just transit?