Author Topic: S32: Alecia Holden (Brawn)  (Read 14294 times)

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Offline Bookworm

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Re: S32: Alecia Holden (Brawn)
« Reply #25 on: March 11, 2016, 06:25:25 AM »
She said on IG that she would love to return for a returnee season. I would love to see her again! <3
If Kelley can return, so can she! I understand that she may have been a little hard to live with, but her treatment from Scot and Jason was unwarranted.
"Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, nothing is going to get better; it's not" - The Lorax

Offline mmmpshow

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Re: S32: Alecia Holden (Brawn)
« Reply #26 on: March 17, 2016, 06:19:06 PM »
This is a very biased opinion by someone who is clearly a Jason and Scot fan. :res:

I know that you're also a user and you're entitled to your own opinion, but when posting game analysis for EVERYONE, it's best to not be biased.

But then what do I know? You keep posting these every week and you don't stop.

I am not biased at all. I try very hard to avoid adding my own personal opinions about these people like I see many other users here do. If you must know, I do not think that Scot or Jason conducted themselves well at camp, particularly Jason, who drew the ire of Jenny. However, as I wrote under the Scot thread, his and Jason's reactions to and treatment of Alecia were completely different from their reactions to and treatments of everyone else. It is clear that Alecia was pushing their buttons with her immature "look at me" attitude. And as I wrote:
 
There were probably numerous unseen moments when he and Jason tried to talk calmly to her, and she continued to ramble and make a case for herself without trying to be pleasant about it. Yet the director and editors of the show are looking for conflict and scenes involving people combusting. That's probably why they cast her in the first place. No one on that tribe came to her defense at any point. That is telling.


Offline Marionete

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Re: S32: Alecia Holden (Brawn)
« Reply #27 on: March 18, 2016, 11:43:31 AM »
However, as I wrote under the Scot thread, his and Jason's reactions to and treatment of Alecia were completely different from their reactions to and treatments of everyone else. It is clear that Alecia was pushing their buttons with her immature "look at me" attitude.

No one on that tribe came to her defense at any point. That is telling.
So if someone is bullying just one person, they're not a bully in your opinion? :res:
And lol there's no "look at me" attitude about Alecia, nor is it her problem that Scot and Jason can't handle their temper and resort to such ways.

Do you remember than Alecia and Cydney had a fairly good relationship? And Jenny liked her to an extent, willing to even form a girls alliance.
Don't forget Darnell wanting to work with Alecia.

:waves:

Offline mmmpshow

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Re: S32: Alecia Holden (Brawn)
« Reply #28 on: March 24, 2016, 05:25:26 PM »
So if someone is bullying just one person, they're not a bully in your opinion?

And lol there's no "look at me" attitude about Alecia, nor is it her problem that Scot and Jason can't handle their temper and resort to such ways.

Do you remember than Alecia and Cydney had a fairly good relationship? And Jenny liked her to an extent, willing to even form a girls alliance.
Don't forget Darnell wanting to work with Alecia.

Darnell voted against Alecia. Jenny voted against Alecia. Cydney, although not at first, inevitably voted against Alecia. Anyone who possesses even a modest amount of intelligence will consider working with anyone else regardless of personality type, especially when there are very limited options -- only five other people. Yet when it came down to the moment of truth, their loyalties were not with her, which is indicative of the simple fact that they did not like her.
 
I have already stated that Jason and Scot's behavior toward her was very poor. Yet the editors of the program clearly demonstrated that Alecia had a sense of entitlement and wanted everyone to praise her without reciprocating. That attitude was not going to be accepted on a tribe comprised of people who prided themselves on being hard-working. Anyone in the viewing audience who did not observe this in her is likely spoiled and entitled themselves and saw nothing wrong with her constantly seeking praise.
 
Jason and Scot lost their temper. There is no excuse for that. Call it bullying if you want. I viewed it as improperly venting frustration. Yet the way they have carried themselves, particularly Scot, throughout every other aspect of the competition reveals it had more to deal with Alecia than with their general dispositions. The editors also clearly demonstrated how each of them tried to speak patiently with her on numerous occasions and she was constantly speaking over them or back to them as though only her words mattered. Those occasions probably happened much more frequently than the couple of outbursts by Jason and Scot the viewing audience saw. The producers of the show want there to be conflict and will show it whenever it occurs.
 
Neither Scot nor Jason has been shown to use bullying to intimidate any of their fellow castaways since Alecia's departure. If they did try to bully other contestants, then I would certainly call them bullies. With regard to this relationship, I saw it as a personality clash that brought out the worst in everyone involved, and, at least based upon the reflections Scot has shown, I imagine Scot regrets his outbursts.

Offline Marionete

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Re: S32: Alecia Holden (Brawn)
« Reply #29 on: March 25, 2016, 04:19:03 AM »
Darnell voted against Alecia. Jenny voted against Alecia. Cydney, although not at first, inevitably voted against Alecia. Anyone who possesses even a modest amount of intelligence will consider working with anyone else regardless of personality type, especially when there are very limited options -- only five other people. Yet when it came down to the moment of truth, their loyalties were not with her, which is indicative of the simple fact that they did not like her. other choices were better and more beneficial.

I understand that you like talking (writing) a lot, but you could've said all that in like 5 sentences. :lol: sorry I'm not gonna write back a book.
You clearly have a different outlook on what bullying is and seem to justify bullies who don't like just one person -- if they're alright with others, the problem must be with that one person, right? Wouldn't be surprised if you'd justify Will's outburst on Shirin in S30 :grins:


Offline Bookworm

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Re: S32: Alecia Holden (Brawn)
« Reply #30 on: March 25, 2016, 07:01:54 AM »
Darnell voted against Alecia. Jenny voted against Alecia. Cydney, although not at first, inevitably voted against Alecia. Anyone who possesses even a modest amount of intelligence will consider working with anyone else regardless of personality type, especially when there are very limited options -- only five other people. Yet when it came down to the moment of truth, their loyalties were not with her, which is indicative of the simple fact that they did not like her. other choices were better and more beneficial.

I understand that you like talking (writing) a lot, but you could've said all that in like 5 sentences. :lol: sorry I'm not gonna write back a book.
You clearly have a different outlook on what bullying is and seem to justify bullies who don't like just one person -- if they're alright with others, the problem must be with that one person, right? Wouldn't be surprised if you'd justify Will's outburst on Shirin in S30 :grins:

tbh Will attacking Shirin in Worlds Apart was much worse than Scot/Jason vs. Alecia. Will's attack was completely personal and incredibly unwarranted. Additionally, Will didn't feel bad about what he said at Tribal Council, at the Reunion, and probably today. Scot has said that he regretted saying those things, but it is clear that Alecia was slightly annoying to live with. I'm not defending any bullying, even Scot says he could have handled it better (idk about Jason), but it seems that Alecia was harder to live with than monkey porn watching Shirin, and Will's outburst was MUCH worse than Scot and Jason's. That being said, both were difficult to watch and it would obviously been better if neither happened in the first place. But CBS loooooooves their drama.
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Offline stekay

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Re: S32: Alecia Holden (Brawn)
« Reply #31 on: March 25, 2016, 08:33:01 AM »
I'd say she could come back but I'd see her being premerge again :lol:

Offline Marionete

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Re: S32: Alecia Holden (Brawn)
« Reply #32 on: March 25, 2016, 09:59:50 AM »
Bookworm, I agree, and there's really no comparing those 2 instances, I was just looking at the bigger picture of what mmpshow said. :lol: Whatever, I don't want to keep talking about this.

Offline Bookworm

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Re: S32: Alecia Holden (Brawn)
« Reply #33 on: March 25, 2016, 12:22:17 PM »
I'd say she could come back but I'd see her being premerge again :lol:
Unless her tribe Tandangs their way to the merge :lol: But Sierra (Tocantins) and Abi were both hard to live with and they made it far, so idk about any precedents
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Offline mmmpshow

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Re: S32: Alecia Holden (Brawn)
« Reply #34 on: March 26, 2016, 12:15:35 PM »
I understand that you like talking (writing) a lot, but you could've said all that in like 5 sentences. :lol: sorry I'm not gonna write back a book.
You clearly have a different outlook on what bullying is and seem to justify bullies who don't like just one person -- if they're alright with others, the problem must be with that one person, right? Wouldn't be surprised if you'd justify Will's outburst on Shirin in S30 :grins:

In your responses to me on the Alecia vs. Scot and Jason topic, you seem to be cherry-picking parts of my posts and ignoring the rest of them in order to make me out to be some sort of supporter of bullying. I have remarked multiple times that Scot and Jason's behavior was very poor. For those reasons, they are among my least favorites of the remaining castaways. The behavior which Scot has demonstrated since then has redeemed him to a certain extent and, as both other people here and I have noted, suggests that he regrets his outbursts toward Alecia. The jury is still out on Jason, and the general tone I get from him is that he does not have the same level of self-reflection or regret, but we have seen him show a genuine care for the other female members of his tribe.
 
You COMPLETELY IGNORE my very accurate observation that the editors/director did show Scot and Jason try several times to have a patient and respectful conversation with Alecia, and her reactions were to ignore what they were saying, talk over them, talk back to them, and essentially try their patience by barraging them with her immature ramblings. In a way, it was a different form of bullying, but no one would call it that based upon the simple fact that she is less than half their size.
 
You COMPLETELY IGNORE my very accurate observation that the producers seek to put combustible personalities on the same tribe to increase the possibilities of dramatic conflict, and they are going to show these instances disproportionately to the instances of patient and respectful conversations. It is very likely that Scot and Jason attempted to talk patiently and respectfully to Alecia 20 times more often then they snapped and yelled at her. As I have pointed out, when there are only five other people out there, one has no choice but to try very hard to make relationships work. Any unbiased observer could see that Scot and Jason tried as hard if not harder than Alecia to make that relationship work, but her lack of awareness of her personality and temperament in relating to other people made that difficult.
 
As another person here pointed out, there is no comparison of Scot and Jason's outburst toward Alecia to Will's outburst to Shirin. Scot and Jason's outbursts were displays of frustration boiling over. Even at the tribal council in which they voted off Alecia, they were trying to make peace with her, and she was continuing her self-absorbed ramblings that seemed to irritate everyone. What Will did to Shirin was meant to hurt and demean someone who was vulnerable, and he refused to apologize. Scot and Jason's outbursts should not be excused, but they are certainly more forgivable and understandable (given basic human nature) than Will's actions, which were intentionally cruel.
 
You COMPLETE IGNORE my very accurate observation that we have not in any way, shape, or form seen any other example of Scot or Jason bulling, yelling, or otherwise intimidating another castaway. So to label them as bullies is premature. Yes, if someone bullies just one person, you can rightfully consider him or her a bully. Yet your insistence on calling what Scot and Jason did as bullying is a stretch based upon what I can only assume are biased opinions based upon personal experiences. They handled themselves poorly, but any unbiased observer is going to call what we saw an expression of extreme frustration over an irritating situation. Repeated behavior like that over an array of different situation could lead one to conclude they are bullies. But we have not seen that yet. The only thing that either of them said that was demeaning was Jason calling her "Blondie." (Yes, he said worse things about her in his confessionals to the camera, but he restrained himself while speaking directly to her.)
 
And please do not alter text from my post. I understand you were trying to make a counterargument to what I stated about the reasons why Darnell, Jenny, and Cydney voted the way that they did. However, your logic only further supports my original point. People inherently choose options based upon what makes them feel good and most secure. So there is an equivalency between voting against someone and not feeling good about that person. Clearly Alecia was a tribemate that no one else on that tribe could trust (i.e. feel good about). She was fortunate to last as long as she did. She had timing on her side, as both Darnell and Jenny had their weakest moments occur just before tribal council, and she managed to garner enough sympathy to not receive a majority of votes.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2016, 12:33:51 PM by mmmpshow »


Offline Marionete

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Re: S32: Alecia Holden (Brawn)
« Reply #35 on: March 26, 2016, 01:13:00 PM »
I choose to comment on what I disagree with and state my different opinion. Or must I reply with 2 sentences to each of yours? Many things you write are accurate and I'd even say undeniable, so I don't feel the need to express my obvious agreement.

But go lecture the facebook casuals with this, it's rather common sense :lol: >>
The producers seek to put combustible personalities on the same tribe to increase the possibilities of dramatic conflict, and they are going to show these instances disproportionately to the instances of patient and respectful conversations. It is very likely that Scot and Jason attempted to talk patiently and respectfully to Alecia 20 times more often then they snapped and yelled at her. As I have pointed out, when there are only five other people out there, one has no choice but to try very hard to make relationships work. Any unbiased observer could see that Scot and Jason tried as hard if not harder than Alecia to make that relationship work, but her lack of awareness of her personality and temperament in relating to other people made that difficult.

You COMPLETELY IGNORE my very accurate observation that the editors/director did show Scot and Jason try several times to have a patient and respectful conversation with Alecia, and her reactions were to ignore what they were saying, talk over them, talk back to them, and essentially try their patience by barraging them with her immature ramblings. In a way, it was a different form of bullying, but no one would call it that based upon the simple fact that she is less than half their size.
 
As another person here pointed out, there is no comparison of Scot and Jason's outburst toward Alecia to Will's outburst to Shirin. Scot and Jason's outbursts were displays of frustration boiling over. Even at the tribal council in which they voted off Alecia, they were trying to make peace with her, and she was continuing her self-absorbed ramblings that seemed to irritate everyone. What Will did to Shirin was meant to hurt and demean someone who was vulnerable, and he refused to apologize. Scot and Jason's outbursts should not be excused, but they are certainly more forgivable and understandable (given basic human nature) than Will's actions, which were intentionally cruel.
It was me, thank you, but the only reason I referenced that before was because of your argument that Scot/Jason haven't been shown mistreating other castaways and neither was Will.
What's up with those statements in bold? I can't seem to remember any of that coming from Alecia except for her confrontation with Scot (and a bit with Jason) in Ep4.

And please do not alter text from my post. I understand you were trying to make a counterargument to what I stated about the reasons why Darnell, Jenny, and Cydney voted the way that they did. However, your logic only further supports my original point. People inherently choose options based upon what makes them feel good and most secure. So there is an equivalency between voting against someone and not feeling good about that person. Clearly Alecia was a tribemate that no one else on that tribe could trust (i.e. feel good about). She was fortunate to last as long as she did. She had timing on her side, as both Darnell and Jenny had their weakest moments occur just before tribal council, and she managed to garner enough sympathy to not receive a majority of votes.
I did not? :lol: That was my way of correcting your incorrect statement and it wasn't just me secretly changing the words you've written lol


ETA: and in case you need more obvious clarification, I GET YOUR POINTS :), so you needn't post the same things for the third/fourth time.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2016, 01:18:31 PM by Marionete »

Offline mmmpshow

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Re: S32: Alecia Holden (Brawn)
« Reply #36 on: March 26, 2016, 03:58:49 PM »
I watch the episodes one time only and look at very little of the bonus content on the Internet. Labeling me a "casual fan" is not an insult. You are welcome to think of yourself as the greatest Survivor fan who knows more than anyone, and those who disagree with you must be somehow flawed. That mentality only matters to you. We are talking about a television program that is rather basic in nature and appeals to a wide range of people, not just people like you, which means anyone's opinion has merit, as long as there is no personal vendetta attached to it, which would then take away from its credibility. I am trying to talk about what we have seen on the show. You seem to want to do that, but then you lose credibility by also insulting me by insinuating things about my character without having anything to back it up. (And how could you?)
 
The problem is that you are clearly expressing a bias and trying to somehow prove that I am the one who is biased. I truly do not care about any of these contestants, because they have no impact in my life other than these thoughts which I express here. I try to be fair about everyone and give the benefit of the doubt whenever possible, which is something that everyone, even you, deserves. We have a difference of opinion. Since we are all strangers here, your opinions do not matter any more or less than mine. I am defending my point of view with facts and logical observations. You want to characterize me as a blind supporter of certain people over others and then make personal observations about me as someone who condones terrible behavior. I could make blanket statements about you, but that would be immature, a waste of time, and irrelevant to the substance of this discussion.
 
It was "Bookworm," not me, who first refuted your comparison of Scot and Jason's outbursts toward Alecia and Will's outburst toward Shirin.

And you say you are correcting mistakes but did not acknowledge how I just pointed out how your so-called "correction" actually further proved my original point. It is hypocritical and baffling that you write back and continue to want to point out how somehow I am mistaken, and then subsequently complain about me writing back (especially when you cannot help yourself from insulting me). With regard to the length of my messages, I write a lot because I am not interested in giving a simple opinion and then insulting someone to justify its superiority. Rather I prefer to provide thoughtful reasons for it. Some of what I write is obvious to the non-casual/diehard fan, but I cannot assume that everyone thinks the same way as a diehard fan, nor should you.
 
In the first episode, Alecia is established as the tribemate who works the least, which gets on everyone else's nerves. After her tribe loses the immunity challenge, Scot tells Alecia in a calm manner that she is not going home, yet she feels the need to instigate what appeared to be a lengthy, unwanted talk with Jason about voting strategy and is coy about the possibility of her or Darnell having a hidden immunity idol. She calls herself a "master manipulator" in a private confessional and a "mental giant" in front of the tribe. She promises to work harder, which we see in the next episode.
 
In the second episode, Alecia is on her best behavior, working tireless on the fire. Her scheming does not garner as much attention as Jenny's second-guessing her alliance with Jason and considering forming an all-girl alliance -- Alecia's idea -- which we know turns out to be the reason why Jenny is eliminated.
 
In the third episode, Scot and Jason again try to calmly discuss camp life with Alecia and expressed their desire to see her continue to contribute to what they hoped would be a stronger and successful tribe at the next immunity challenge. Despite their best efforts to be patient with her, which by no means rank anywhere beyond average in terms of the ordinary person's ability to be patient, she incessantly praised herself and made her case for why she is a worthy contestant. Numerous times, they tried to politely end those conversations, but, maybe out of insecurity, she dragged out those conversations, standing up for herself in a way that was not pleasant for anyone to watch. Scot and Jason said as much in their confessionals.
 
In the overall gameplay of Survivor, a contestant must play nice or pretend to play nice in order to be successful. With a limited number of people out there, it may not be easy to accomplish, but not doing so guarantees that, no matter how far in the game that contestant goes, he or she does not stand much of a chance of winning the title of Sole Survivor, unless that person is paired with a finalist who was even worse at playing nice -- unlikely to happen, since most contestants these days are very familiar with the dynamics of the game. There is no doubt that Alecia was dealt a tough hand being placed in the Brawn tribe, because Scot and Jason immediately (and justifiably so) viewed her as the weakest member of the tribe. Their behavior toward everyone else will be reflected back to them through the rest of the game. At this point, only Scot seems to have displayed a certain level of awareness.
 
Alecia did not play nice or pretend to play nice. She constantly sought validation and was relentless about it -- a sign of a fighter's spirit, but nonetheless misplaced in the dynamics of Survivor. As an underdog, she should have done her part to build bridges with difficult personalities, which is what people must do in the real world (e.g. bosses/coworkers who one must work for/with to succeed). Not everyone can have sunshine and rainbows all the time. Scot and Jason were by no means choir boys, but they extended the olive branch more often than she did, the last occurrence of which was when Scot explained the reason why he voted for her instead of Jenny at the start of the third episode.
 
Add to that how Alecia had shown herself to be distrustful by using lies to mislead tribemates ahead of their first two trips to tribal council, and you had someone who, if she was ever going to win favor and better treatment, had to do her part to play nice. Instead, she acted like her problems were everyone else's fault, and she talked in a way as though she felt she was owed something, emblematic of a spoiled and entitled younger generation who received "participation trophies" and was never told that they failed at something.
 
In the fourth episode, Alecia had her spat with Scot after the grueling reward challenge. She made the ridiculous comparison of working/cheering on a team in Survivor and doing the same in the NBA. Once again, she showed no understanding of anyone else's point of view but hers. In every interaction we saw involving her -- including the ones she had with women -- she wanted the attention on what she was saying and did not acknowledge the concerns or perspectives of her tribemates. This was what Jason summarized in his comment to Jeff following their loss in the immunity challenge, in which he pointed out her latest selfish comment and declare the tribe united in their intention to vote her out.
 
Bottom line: I did not like Scot and Jason's behavior toward Alecia. If I were out there on a tribe dealing with her personality, I would have shown much more patience than they did. At the same time, I am not going to render final judgment on them, since they have more to prove in the game. Scot has shown a degree of wisdom, fairness, and comradery -- first in how he succinctly and without animosity addressed the reason why Jenny was in trouble at the tribal council in which she was eliminated (even though he did not vote for her), and most recently in his forming a strategic and seemingly friendly bond with Tai. Jason has not shown any redemptive qualities yet, and I suspect he might not, which means he probably will be eliminated sooner.
 
Fair or unfair, I am able to render final judgment on Alecia, since she will not reappear this season (e.g. as a member of the jury). She may be a wonderful person and have deserved a better fate. Yet in these circumstances, she took a bad situation and made it worse with what anyone who conducts themselves as an adult would consider childish behavior. (I called it a "look at me" attitude.)
« Last Edit: March 26, 2016, 04:06:01 PM by mmmpshow »

Offline Marionete

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Re: S32: Alecia Holden (Brawn)
« Reply #37 on: March 26, 2016, 04:44:08 PM »
Oh sweetie, you have topped yourself with this one. So ridiculously out of nowhere. :grins:
You might have been sleeping before writing that post, so I'll try to weed out the dreams.

Labeling me a "casual fan" is not an insult. -- All cool, I did not (you'll not believe this, so try to find the quote).
You are welcome to think of yourself as the greatest Survivor fan who knows more than anyone, and those who disagree with you must be somehow flawed. -- Awkward mindset, good thing these are not my words but yours?
insulting me by insinuating things about my character -- Also, what is this one about?
The problem is that you are clearly expressing a bias and trying to somehow prove that I am the one who is biased. -- Just throwing this out there: who's to say I would be incorrect by pointing the exact same argument at you? Not that it matters.
It was "Bookworm," not me, who first refuted your comparison of Scot and Jason's outbursts toward Alecia and Will's outburst toward Shirin. -- Thank you, I did notice that. Sadly, there was no comparison.
your so-called "correction" actually further proved my original point. -- lol it did not. There should be no "equivalency" between voting somebody out due to not liking them (personal reason) and having other more beneficial options (strategic reason).
complain about me writing back (especially when you cannot help yourself from insulting me) -- Niiiiice, please point out both of those instances - the complaining and the insults, tyvm :)


Now really quickly -- Alecia felt she was dead on the chopping block in the premiere and therefore didn't buy Scot calling her safe. It's really hard to judge her further actions having only seen small parts of it, but it was most probably bad gameplay, as there indeed was no need to scramble and she WAS safe. Anyway, that was her playing the game.
Not gonna fill in on anything else, as I really don't see the necessity for that and you have already expressed your opinion and views more than clearly. :lol: This is fun to do, but so superfluous and recurring.

P.S. it's really interesting to see you mention being insulted like 5 times in a single post, when you've explicitly told me a couple of times how no one on this board should take anything personal or get irritated/annoyed/offended by anything these strangers say :):):):) Please don't forget to quote those insults, too.

Offline stekay

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Re: S32: Alecia Holden (Brawn)
« Reply #38 on: March 26, 2016, 05:09:16 PM »
Memoirs of Alecia is now available in all great superstores!

Offline Marionete

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Re: S32: Alecia Holden (Brawn)
« Reply #39 on: March 26, 2016, 05:12:53 PM »
And speaking of blanket statements.... :lol:
Only people who subscribe to the notion of a "participation trophy" would identify with her and feel sympathy for her.

The clearest example of her immaturity was her ridiculous comparison of working/cheering on a team in Survivor to what Scot did in the NBA. It showed no perspective between the real world and a fantasy world of fun and games.
I wouldn't call that ridiculous - the bottom line of that comparison was that Scot should know how teammates should be treated and that encouragement shouldn't be discouraged. Alecia's quote: "The moral of the story is to act like a team. Have teamwork. Work together. Not to put each other down."




Memoirs of Alecia is now available in all great superstores!
:lol:

Offline Kitty Pryde

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Re: S32: Alecia Holden (Brawn)
« Reply #40 on: March 26, 2016, 05:15:41 PM »
Leave this Queen alone, poor people.
Here place for awsome gif

Offline stekay

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Re: S32: Alecia Holden (Brawn)
« Reply #41 on: March 26, 2016, 05:57:05 PM »
Leave this Queen alone, poor people.

Nice to see you back Kitty

Offline georgiapeach

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Re: S32: Alecia Holden (Brawn)
« Reply #42 on: March 26, 2016, 06:05:28 PM »
OKAY PEOPLE/

YPU MAY COMMENT ON THE SHOW AND ITS PLAYERS.

YOU MAY NOT MAKE PERSONAL COMMENTS TO OR ABOUT EACH OTHER.

STOP THIS CRAP NOW AND GET BACK ON TOPIC PLEASE.  :groan:

RFF's Golden Rule:
Have RESPECT for each other, regardless of opinion. This of course includes no flaming/insulting other users and/or their posts.
RFF's Golden Rule:
Have RESPECT for each other, regardless of opinion. This of course includes no flaming/insulting other users and/or their posts.

Offline mmmpshow

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Re: S32: Alecia Holden (Brawn)
« Reply #43 on: March 26, 2016, 06:07:16 PM »
Labeling me a "casual fan" is not an insult. -- All cool, I did not (you'll not believe this, so try to find the quote).
See the end of this post for quotes from your previous posts.
 
You are welcome to think of yourself as the greatest Survivor fan who knows more than anyone, and those who disagree with you must be somehow flawed. -- Awkward mindset, good thing these are not my words but yours?
You take this quote out of context. See the whole paragraph in which you found that quote. Obviously, I used hyperbole, because you have repeatedly insisted that I have a bias and have insinuated that I condone bullying, not at all acknowledging that you may have one as well (perhaps due to a difference in values based upon a generational gap). Rather than address that, you brush it off by labeling me a casual fan, which I assume is a way of discrediting my opinion in favor of those who participate on this site more frequently and agree with yours. As I said, everyone is entitled to his or her opinion, and I have left out my personal opinions to state what I realize is an unpopular opinion but is relevant to this topic, that Alecia's personality did not do her any favors.
 
insulting me by insinuating things about my character -- Also, what is this one about?
Again, see the end of this post for quotes from your previous posts relevant to this. They insinuate that I support Scot and Jason and felt what they did was acceptable. I certainly did not. All I have been trying to say through all of these posts is that for anyone to say that Alecia was guiltless in this whole scenario is not seeing things fairly -- i.e., in an unbiased manner.
 
The problem is that you are clearly expressing a bias and trying to somehow prove that I am the one who is biased. -- Just throwing this out there: who's to say I would be incorrect by pointing the exact same argument at you? Not that it matters.
You are correct. The only reason why I keep responding is for what I said two paragraphs ago -- you have continually avoided acknowledging your bias, instead making the obvious comments about bullying. Fair enough, but to cast Alecia as a sympathetic character and Scot and Jason as villains based upon a few scenes (viewed with a bias based upon personal experience) and not attempting to see the opposite side of things (i.e. how Alecia instigated many of those conflicts with her own combative attitude) is not making a legitimate argument. I have clearly expressed my bias -- I am not a fan of millennials and post-millennials who feel they are owed something without attempting to show good faith in working for it, or who feel that they should get whatever they want, because that is what they have been told their entire lives (i.e. the notion of the "participation trophy"). Alecia spoke endlessly about what she wanted but spoke very little about what she was willing to do for others. That attitude came across to her tribemates, who considered her a pest. She deserved the same sort of patience Cydney gave her. Unfortunately, Scot and Jason lost their patience, a reflection on them. However, everyone who has worked in the real world knows that you cannot pick your coworkers, and sometimes you have to put your nose to the grindstone, work hard, and please people before you can get on their good side.
 
your so-called "correction" actually further proved my original point. -- lol it did not. There should be no "equivalency" between voting somebody out due to not liking them (personal reason) and having other more beneficial options (strategic reason).
I already explained this. My original comment was refuting your claim that Darnell, Jenny, and Cydney liked Alecia, even though their voting history specifically targeted her, presumably primarily based upon how she was visibly scheming, but probably also based upon her role in the disharmony at camp and the initial perception that she did not help out much. As I said then, people inherently vote/choose options that make them feel good. If you are voting in favor of someone, you are basically saying you trust this person more. In the early stages, those contestants, as well as Scot and Jason, voted the way they did because, at the very core of the matter, they had bad feelings about the person they were voting for and felt they could not be trusted.
 
complain about me writing back (especially when you cannot help yourself from insulting me) -- Niiiiice, please point out both of those instances - the complaining and the insults, tyvm :)
Again, see below for quotes from previous posts.
 
it's really interesting to see you mention being insulted like 5 times in a single post, when you've explicitly told me a couple of times how no one on this board should take anything personal or get irritated/annoyed/offended by anything these strangers say
Again, you are cherry-picking comments, taking them out of context, to make an argument out of something I am not arguing. As I have explained in this message and several others, you are avoiding addressing my points. Instead, you appear to want to discredit me through characterizations of me as a casual fan and someone who condones bullying, either of which could be construed as an insult. As I have also explained numerous times, I am not personally insulted by these things. The only reason why I can imagine you saying something like these things is to avoid admitting that you have no worthwhile response to the actual substance of what I am writing and would then have to admit that I did indeed discredit one of the arguments you had been vehemently making.
 
The quotes I noted earlier:
 
Shush. This seems like it was written by a pretentious casual fan.

go lecture the facebook casuals with this, it's rather common sense

This is a very biased opinion by someone who is clearly a Jason and Scot fan

So if someone is bullying just one person, they're not a bully in your opinion

You clearly have a different outlook on what bullying is and seem to justify bullies who don't like just one person -- if they're alright with others, the problem must be with that one person, right? Wouldn't be surprised if you'd justify Will's outburst on Shirin in S30

I understand that you like talking (writing) a lot, but you could've said all that in like 5 sentences.

Or must I reply with 2 sentences to each of yours?

I GET YOUR POINTS :), so you needn't post the same things for the third/fourth time.