The Amazing Race > The Amazing Race Discussion
Ranking the Teams -- A basis for comparing all teams (TAR 1 - 33)
mswood:
--- Quote from: almightyblue on February 24, 2010, 03:38:18 PM ---
--- Quote from: mswood on February 24, 2010, 12:54:56 PM ---The thing with these is one we need to all (myself included) remember that the requirements for being a strong team are different each season.
Things like remembering when judging seasons 1-4 that teams with great placement averages had to deal with the possibility of another team getting in first not to superior racing but due to their being a fast forward available in all but the final leg. One could certainly argue that that really handicaps teams from season 1-4. Then you have the fact that seasons 1-5 allowed one racer to do (though not all teams did some very much split their tasks and responsibilities during the race) which makes it difficult to compare seasons 6-16 to earlier races. Then you have seasons 13 and up that for the most part have removed what was one of the biggest factors of the race and that is the ability to drive and navigate long distance through various countries. Then you have things like the Yield or U-Turn where you can deliberately impede the progress of your fellow racers (something seasons 1-4 didn't have). Then you have your competitors, and let me say that no season has across the board strong racers, each has usually have 4 - 5 teams that simple suck. And I think its actually gotten worse. Look at seasons 13-15. Those seasons have the most penalties, teams that get eliminated through their own carelessness, and choices that just boggle the mind.
--- End quote ---
I think what's most relevant was that for the first nine seasons, TAR was a physical game, while for seasons 11 and beyond it's been more of a game of intelligence (when there was intelligence to be had, that is), with 10 being a mix of the two. It's why you see big, strong teams fizzling out mid-race now, while teams like Nick & Starr and Tammy & Victor dominate.
--- End quote ---
Actually most people considered the latter seasons (minus the final task) to be dumbed down version of the race. With teams being spoon feed more information on what needs to get done then previous years. The one primary difference has been the increased use of the final task being more mental then physical. And the race for the most part isn't strength based, endurance based sure, but that is completely different from physical strength. It is also something that has been lessoned now that the race is typically 6 -7 days shorter then it was with seasons 1 -11.
DavidJunior:
i'm just saying we really can't consider a team as not competitive just because they were eliminated due to a dumb mistake.
That's like saying Bode Miller or Lindsey Vonn aren't strong skiiers because they beefed it on the Giant Slalom.
People are human, they make mistakes. These teams were just unfortunate to make them on the race.
i just feel S5 had a pretty week field. There were at least 5 teams I felt could've came in last in almost every other season, that at least made the first couple of legs this particular season.
so yeah, Colin and Christie destoryed the other teams, but how many of those teams were legitimate competition? 1 or 2 in the F6?
as opposed to the other 2? 3-4 teams.
and other seasons even more so.
again, i don't feel any of these are the epiomy of competition
i just don't get why people think S13 and S15 were horrible, but think S5 was the greatest thing on the planet in terms of teams
i say they fit somewhere in the middle, closer to the bottom
Zack.:
--- Quote ---No, just no. They weren't even close to the same level as Rob & Amber and Dustin & Kandice, and this has to be the first time I've seen anyone ever suggest as much. A strong team doesn't finish over 12 hours behind the lead team, twice. A strong team doesn't need the most contrived equalizer in Amazing Race history to catch up to the lead teams. A strong team doesn't make three critical airport mistakes that should have gotten them eliminated, mistakes such as:
--- End quote ---
I have to disagree here. While I dislike Eric/Danielle, I can't fault them for the unpredictability of flights during the Hajj, or for the order in which racers getting on or off standby. Moreover, both Kevin/Drew and Bill/Joe ended up at least 12 hours behind Rob/Brennan and Frank/Margarita in Beijing - would you not say they were strong teams?
mswood:
Almightblue
First, I would never call Eric & Danielle a great team, but yeah they raced better then Charla & Mirna. I don't discount that teams strength (I even stated it being their ability to either find flights, or to use their attitude to push their way above other teams which they have done in more then one season) and their ability (at times because they can be very grating) to get help from others (though again this can also hurt them, just look at the first episode to see a great example of this).
But look at what happens during this season and judge who performed smarter and better.
Who is better at navigation?
WHo is better at driving?
Who is better on foot getting from point A to point B?
Out of all the tasks performed who is better?
Who is better with Flights?
Who is better with ferns?
Clearly the first four are easily on Eric & Danielle's side, not just through the first four episode but through the full race.
The flight issue I also give to Charla & Mirna (though comments below because they also had problems and some of what happened was very much luck and not based off of statistical patterns of the show).
Then we have getting help from ferns, And this well we certainly see Charla & Mirna employee locals for a lot of help. But how successful was this. In fact rarely was this a factor for good for this team (well maybe better then what they would have done on their own, but still not good). The one exception is according to IZAD (who followed this team from Baku caves to the entrance of the Pit Stop and helped Charla with the bike roadblock) it had some value, but they still took hours longer to complete each and every part of that leg then any other team. And thats with a lot of local help. Eric & Danielle on the other hand rarely sought help from locals besides the typical directions (which they already did better then Charla & Mirna to begin with).
Its very clear that the majority of all the aspects of the race, Eric & Danielle did better.
Remove the issue of three of the flights and honestly tell me that Charla & Mirna performed stronger? And if you rationally cant then you can't say that tasks were the only thing Eric & Danielle did better.
On the flight issue. The first two flight issues were not based on errors. Statistically Eric & Danielle made the correct choices.
Charla & Mirna (first major flight issue) gambled on flying to a location where not only did they not have tickets, but they weren't on standby. That was a huge gamble and not something that historically is successful on the race (They even state its a big risk). In fact look at Season four to see this example of racing go horrible wrong for a team. That worked out was luck. Just three episodes earlier they weren't able to get standby, so they know that even with a film crew they aren't always going to be successful. On the standby list (later same episode) we can't actually judge. Since we don't see or hear the order they are put on standby, we don't know if it matches the order listed later in the next country (and just from my own experience plus watching this show it doesn't always). Historically all the teams (including Teri & Ian and the Guidos made a much safer and rational choice.
The next airport issue. In the shows history how many times have the scheduled connecting flights provided not been meet? Out of over 200 plus flights? Well the answer is none. Now teams have chosen to take alternate routes themselves and lost connections, but never one set up by production. Never. You think it was a mistake for Eric & Danielle to try another travel agent. Yet they knew those 4 teams had been there (when they arrived by a clock on the wall and closely matching dialogue) 7 hours and 10 minutes, and managed to find nothing. Yes 20 minutes later seats did open up on an earlier flight, but you are assuming those same seats wouldn't show up at the other agency. Or that somehow Eric & Danielle might have been able to book those seats at that same agency faster then Charla & Mirna group (as that group is now using both agents). I mean logically how is their choice wrong? Do they see these teams having any success? Nope no at all, in fact the length of time that they tried is staggering. Is there a logical reason not to try another agency? No, not with the information they have. And worse comes to worse they have the up to this point 100% reliable arranged flight and connections. There is no logical reason to suspect their arranged flights would not work out. And curiously since that date, we have yet to see it happen again. Teams can't know what will occur. Its like saying Eric & Dani should have taken that flight that arrived at 3:10pm in Warsaw (4 hours after the arranged flight) because they should have known their flight wouldn't work out. With the arranged flight they would have finished 3rd. There was no logical way to rationalize that staying there would have been better for them.
The final flight problem, yeah while its a minor error (as teams aren't often pushed in front of other teams it has happened in the race's history so it was based on history a possibility). And that was the only flight issue that they truly had even marginal control over.
theschnauzers:
I have to say that I think some of the recent discussion might have been better placed in the Racer mechanics threads because a lot of has to do with the teams' skill set, or even specific skills in specific circumstances. But that's just my humble opinion, YMMV.
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