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Offline DrRox

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Team collusion goes all the way back to TAR1. It has always been a part of the race. In TAR5, they introduced the Yield and that was the first time that a team(s) could actively hinder/delay another team. In that race, Chip/Kym, Bowling Moms and Brandon/Nicole colluded to yield Colin/Christie. Like it or love it, it is part of the race.   
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Offline apskip

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I agree with those who have said that was a really clever and unique way to use a double U-Turn to get rid of a strong team. I doubt there will be anymore double-Uturns in the coming season now that this strategy has emerged. They will have to come up with something else.

zacz,

You are absolutely right. It's called a single U-Turn and it's been in existence since approximately AR5!

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Offline starrynight

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I understand the strategy, but collusion can mean (like here) a weaker team (Chippendales) being used for other teams.  And apparently Trey and Lexy had some kind of problem with Abbie and Ryan so it was more a personal thing, probably the same with the twins. Chippendales actually worked together with Abbie and Ryan before, so for them it was like they were pressured in a group situation (with the other teams) to do it.

Ultimately though even if you consider it a good move for some of the teams is it actually a good move for the audience?  Surely you want the stronger teams in to the end so you can have a more exciting race?  I would want that, it's frustrating to see weaker teams (particularly if not that entertaining) keep in at the expense of more interesting and arguably better ones.  And the production will manipulate things as they want anyway I'm sure.   
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Offline apskip

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Basically they're just still in it because two other teams who seemed more competent racers (the rockers and Abby & Ryan) got eliminated because of bad luck and/or strategy of the other teams. They obviously don't feel like they should be in the race anymore either, judging by how they've been talking about it. :( I like them, don't get me wrong, I just think other teams deserved to be here more than they do at this point.


The primary reason Ryan and Abbie were eliminated was their trouble in reaching Frankfurt after the 1245pm-arriving-in- Amsterdam flight. If they had gotten it they would have been immune to any U-Turn because they would have a 3 hour 50 minute lead on Josh and Brent. It was only the mess changing planes in Frankfurt which go them eliminated, as the time to do the Organ Grind DETOUR had to be far less than the lead they would have had.

Offline bcp19

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I'm a little confused by the flights out of Moscow, do airlines run different schedules in the summer?  In looking at the site I use in the fantasy games, I found 2 direct flights that leaves at 2155 and gets in at 2240 (KLM and Aeroflot) in Amsterdam at Sheremetyevo.  The first 2 teams should have had plenty of time to make these flighst.  All of these flights would have arrived ahead of the ones they were on as well:

Domodedovo
2310 - 0830 Ukraine Intl Airlines
2310 - 1135 Ukraine Intl Airlines

Sheremetyevo
2155 - 2240 KLM
2155 - 2240 Aeroflot
0645 - 0720 KLM
0645 - 0720 Aeroflot
2345 - 0840 Czech Airlines
2225 - 0855 Air France
2205 - 0950 LOT Polish Airlines
2240 - 1030 El Al Isreal Airlines
2140 - 1055 Air Baltic
2140 - 1105 Alitalia

Vnukovo
2225 - 1040 Turkish Airlines

In addition, the pitstop times seem off.  Using what we know: ~Jun 11.  Chips/Tery & Lexi got to the Classroom before 0800 (HoO).  They then took the test ~12 times (you see them failing #11) If we use 2-5 mins a round that's 24-60 minutes.  20 minutes by taxi to the Movers detour.  Since N&N were arriving as T&L were leaving, and were ~1.5 hours behind, we can ballpark .5-1.0 hours for Movers (Chips & T/L are in much better shape).  20 minutes by taxi to the park, 5-10 mins or so looking for the PS and we have a range from 0920 to 1100 for them to get to the PS yet they leave at 7:32PM... 9-10 hours PS? From the shadows as the twins ran to the pitstop, I was figuring 1030-1130, so 1115 + 10 = 2155 and it works, But from the shadows Abbey and Ryan would have been around 1730 ., so with their 0528 departure, this puts them at 1930 if we use the 10 hours above..  You can still see sunlight hitting the tops of the trees when Josh and Brent arrive, so they got there before 2112 (sunset) and we know them to be almost 3 hours behind (0811 departure).  This causes another snag though... 10 hours would be 2211, almost an hour after sunset.

Thoughts?


Offline DrRox

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bcp_19.........

June 7th..... leave Istanbul
June 8th......arrive Moscow.....finish Leg 7
June 9th......Leg 8
June 10th......long pit stop and teams released starting in evening
June 11th...... all teams fly out of Moscow in the morning to Amsterdam

They all flew out of SVO.......as they always have when leaving Moscow (except TAR13). I personally think they are told to fly out of SVO. I posted the flights in the TAR 21 Transportation thread.

http://forum.realityfanforum.com/index.php/topic,27208.175.html
« Last Edit: November 26, 2012, 11:10:49 AM by DrRox »
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Offline bcp19

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bcp_19.........

June 7th..... leave Istanbul
June 8th......arrive Moscow.....finish Leg 7
June 9th......Leg 8
June 10th......long pit stop and teams released starting in evening
June 11th...... all teams fly out of Moscow in the morning to Amsterdam

They all flew out of SVO.......as they always have when leaving Moscow (except TAR13). I personally think they are told to fly out of SVO. I posted the flights in the TAR 21 Transportation thread.

http://forum.realityfanforum.com/index.php/topic,27208.175.html
That is the flights they took, but there appeared to be several earlier flights they could have been on.

Offline DrRox

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Seat availability???........plus we really don't know that the extended instructions said. Production could have told them no to fly out till the 11th.......I do agree with you........lots of strangeness going on there.

Also, Russia is a hard place to get out of. They probably were released by Production from the Pit Stop at a time that Production knew they would have to fly out the next morning.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2012, 12:25:17 PM by DrRox »
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Offline apskip

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bcp_19.........

June 7th..... leave Istanbul
June 8th......arrive Moscow.....finish Leg 7
June 9th......Leg 8
June 10th......long pit stop and teams released starting in evening
June 11th...... all teams fly out of Moscow in the morning to Amsterdam

They all flew out of SVO.......as they always have when leaving Moscow (except TAR13). I personally think they are told to fly out of SVO. I posted the flights in the TAR 21 Transportation thread.

http://forum.realityfanforum.com/index.php/topic,27208.175.html
That is the flights they took, but there appeared to be several earlier flights they could have been on.

Not exactly! For the date of Monday June 11, Dr. Rox's flight calculations (for which I have checked each and every one) are generally accurate except for a few minor discrepancies. Abbie and Ryan could theoretically have gotten on the Aeroflot nonstop to Amsterdam but they are bright enough that they should not have missed that. Josh and Brent could have gone through Frankfurt, but neither team could have gone through Rome or Larnaca; by the time they were at the airport to book tickets those flights were already departed.

The one set of flights (and I checked a wide range of connecting points to see if any could give better results) that could have been a lifeline on Monday June 11 to any of the last 3 teams was through Riga:
AirBaltic 425 SVO RIX 0922 1007
AirBaltic 617 RIX AMS 1144 1300

bcp19, appearances can be deceiving unless you dig into the details. So, if you have better flight information I certainly want to see it either on this thread or the Transportation thread where it really belongs. Cite specific flight numbers for June 11, when it departed and when it arrived.

Offline DrRox

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Abbie and Ryan could theoretically have gotten on the Aeroflot nonstop to Amsterdam but they are bright enough that they should not have missed that.



That is very, very true apskip. Theoretically, Trey/Lexie and N/N could have also made that flight, since they arrived at the airport long before Abbie/Ryan even left the Pit Stop. If you had, theoretically, paid attention to the episode last night, you would have known that, theoretically, there were only enough seats on that flight for ONE team and that one team was the Chippies. Theoretically, that is why all the other teams were booking connecting flights through intermediate airports. Theoretically speaking, of course. 
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Offline apskip

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Dr. Rox,

Perhaps you have just proved, theoretically, why I should not attempt to be supportive of someone (YOU) who has no interest in that.

Also, Nadine and Nadiya had an earlier arrival, so why would they have been interested in the nonstop arriving about 2 hours later?
« Last Edit: November 26, 2012, 04:43:37 PM by apskip »

Online RachelLeVega

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It seemed like this episode was refurbished with old tasks instead of creating new ones. :duno:

Fast Forward: Ride bus & eat herring before time runs out - DETOUR: Quick And Easy Meal / ride ferris wheel and eat Cornish hen before time runs out (from Unfinished Business, Austria)
Route info task: Cake with clue - French bread with clue (season 16, 1st France leg)
Detour A: Replicate art with humans - DETOUR: Honor The Past / replicate play people with replicant models (from Unfinished Business, 2nd China leg)
Detour B: Operate music organ to earn money - most recently DETOUR: Shake Your Money Maker / dance in Indonesian costumes and earn money (season 19, 1st Indonesia leg)
Roadblock: Switchback is self-explanatory... :)
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Offline theschnauzers

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I don't know that it is criminal to recycle elements of tasks used in the past and adapting them to elements that are culturally appropriate to the location.

The problem in the past with some recycling was that the designer did not bother to make the tasks culturally or ethnically relevant. There's only some many types/categories of tasks that can be devised, so the repetition of an adapted task is not an issue, per se, as much as the need to reflect the culture teams are seeing in the different locations.
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Offline serendipity

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I'm a little confused by the flights out of Moscow, do airlines run different schedules in the summer?  In looking at the site I use in the fantasy games, I found 2 direct flights that leaves at 2155 and gets in at 2240 (KLM and Aeroflot) in Amsterdam at Sheremetyevo.  The first 2 teams should have had plenty of time to make these flighst.  All of these flights would have arrived ahead of the ones they were on as well:

Domodedovo
2310 - 0830 Ukraine Intl Airlines
2310 - 1135 Ukraine Intl Airlines

Sheremetyevo
2155 - 2240 KLM
2155 - 2240 Aeroflot
0645 - 0720 KLM
0645 - 0720 Aeroflot
2345 - 0840 Czech Airlines
2225 - 0855 Air France
2205 - 0950 LOT Polish Airlines
2240 - 1030 El Al Isreal Airlines
2140 - 1055 Air Baltic
2140 - 1105 Alitalia

Vnukovo
2225 - 1040 Turkish Airlines

In addition, the pitstop times seem off.  Using what we know: ~Jun 11.  Chips/Tery & Lexi got to the Classroom before 0800 (HoO).  They then took the test ~12 times (you see them failing #11) If we use 2-5 mins a round that's 24-60 minutes.  20 minutes by taxi to the Movers detour.  Since N&N were arriving as T&L were leaving, and were ~1.5 hours behind, we can ballpark .5-1.0 hours for Movers (Chips & T/L are in much better shape).  20 minutes by taxi to the park, 5-10 mins or so looking for the PS and we have a range from 0920 to 1100 for them to get to the PS yet they leave at 7:32PM... 9-10 hours PS? From the shadows as the twins ran to the pitstop, I was figuring 1030-1130, so 1115 + 10 = 2155 and it works, But from the shadows Abbey and Ryan would have been around 1730 ., so with their 0528 departure, this puts them at 1930 if we use the 10 hours above..  You can still see sunlight hitting the tops of the trees when Josh and Brent arrive, so they got there before 2112 (sunset) and we know them to be almost 3 hours behind (0811 departure).  This causes another snag though... 10 hours would be 2211, almost an hour after sunset.

Thoughts?

Agree with you, I also not feel quite right about the departure time, Josh/Brent were behind the Chippendales 13 hours? Considering the Chips had to wait outside the agricultural college till 8am to start the leg, they would not have arrived the pit stop by 10am the earliest.  If that's the case it would make Josh/Brent arriving at 11pm that leg.  Even though it's summer and Moscow is so north, it still would not look that bright at 11pm... Maybe some time penalty/adjustment happened...

Also, I feel that the Chippendales are so stupid using the U-turn on Abbie/Ryan, considering that they were an alliance before and didn't want to upset them, they should have u-turn the Twins as they already knew the twins got the FF!! Which is the perfect decision as it would leave Texas to u-turn Abbie/Ryan then and the Chips didn't need to feel bad about it! Why wouldn't they think about that??

Offline Chateau d If

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Great idea!
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Offline starrynight

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It seemed like this episode was refurbished with old tasks instead of creating new ones. :duno:

Fast Forward: Ride bus & eat herring before time runs out - DETOUR: Quick And Easy Meal / ride ferris wheel and eat Cornish hen before time runs out (from Unfinished Business, Austria)
Route info task: Cake with clue - French bread with clue (season 16, 1st France leg)
Detour A: Replicate art with humans - DETOUR: Honor The Past / replicate play people with replicant models (from Unfinished Business, 2nd China leg)
Detour B: Operate music organ to earn money - most recently DETOUR: Shake Your Money Maker / dance in Indonesian costumes and earn money (season 19, 1st Indonesia leg)
Roadblock: Switchback is self-explanatory... :)

FFs are so much more interesting when two teams are competing against each other like last season.  When only one team can do it at a time it's merely about who is the first there and because of that most teams won't even consider going to it.

And there has already been an eating and earning money task this season, we really need more variety and creativity.  I also think those kinds of tasks have to be genuinely difficult to be good and worthwhile.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2012, 04:36:27 AM by starrynight »
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Offline maf

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FFs are so much more interesting when two teams are competing against each other like last season.  When only one team can do it at a time it's merely about who is the first there and because of that most teams won't even consider going to it.

I agree, and in this episode the FF clue actually explicitly said that any team who makes the bus can compete. So I guess that if multiple teams had made it to the bus then the first team to eat their herrings would have got it.

I also remember that the helicopter landing FF in TAR20 was set up for three teams to compete at once, as was the haybale stacking. So I think the producers also would like for more than one team to go for it.

Offline starrynight

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The FFs last season were actually quite good , I hope we get something better than the fish eating this season.
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Offline Theodorus

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I actually can't imagine if Trey & Lexi are really going to France, though that seems impossible.
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Offline DrRox

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The FF was set up for multiple teams. That is why they only had 7 minutes to eat the herring. If the Chippies had got their sooner, they could have tried after either the first miss or second miss by the Twins. They landed 45 minutes behind the Twins and that is how long it took the twins to finish the FF. They got it on the 3rd try. So if you figure a minimum of 17 minutes a cycle....7 for the bus and10 for the wait period.....the Chippies just got their too late. The Twins finished in about 41 minutes.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2012, 08:11:34 AM by DrRox »
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Online Alenaveda

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I actually can't imagine if Trey & Lexi are really going to France, though that seems impossible.

Check this:

http://forum.realityfanforum.com/index.php/topic,27206.msg778987.html#msg778987
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Offline Flamant

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Why didn't they showed the tweenies failing and restarting the FF? It could have been quite intense with the production making it look like the Chips arriving just as the boat leave for the third time.

Offline DrRox

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Dr. Rox,

Also, Nadine and Nadiya had an earlier arrival, so why would they have been interested in the nonstop arriving about 2 hours later?

Where did you pull out that 2 hours? I do have an idea though, but civility keeps me from mentioning it.

Sometimes going to connecting airports works, non-stops just cut down on potential problems.  This time it did work for NandN, but it didn't for Abbie/Ryan. Other examples from TAR history off the top of my head........Brad/Victoria in TAR14, the 5 teams stuck in Hong Kong in TAR18, Uchenna/Joyce in TAR11.......and just last episode for Goat Farmers and Abbie/Ryan. Since the non-stop was sold out in this instance, teams had to use connecting airports.
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Offline Jobby

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Also, I feel that the Chippendales are so stupid using the U-turn on Abbie/Ryan, considering that they were an alliance before and didn't want to upset them, they should have u-turn the Twins as they already knew the twins got the FF!! Which is the perfect decision as it would leave Texas to u-turn Abbie/Ryan then and the Chips didn't need to feel bad about it! Why wouldn't they think about that??

They probably aren't smart enough. -_- Sadly.

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Quote

Also, I feel that the Chippendales are so stupid using the U-turn on Abbie/Ryan, considering that they were an alliance before and didn't want to upset them, they should have u-turn the Twins as they already knew the twins got the FF!! Which is the perfect decision as it would leave Texas to u-turn Abbie/Ryan then and the Chips didn't need to feel bad about it! Why wouldn't they think about that??

Quote
They probably aren't smart enough. -_- Sadly.

It seems to me that J & J could either ...

A:  Keep their word and in doing so anger the team - Abbie and Ryan - who would in all probability be leaving the Race at the conclusion of the leg (and who would therefore be unable to be of any further aid or comfort to them during its concluding tasks, trials and tribulations).

Or ...

B.  Break their word and in doing so anger a team - Trey and Lexie - who would in all probablility be continuing in the Race at the conclusion of the leg (and who had been staunch allies and pleasant companions throughout it).

So, I think that I would have made the same choice that they did.  But, then, I haven't run too many Amazing Races ... :)



 

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