Topic: Mactors/Recruited Teams

[apskip]

No, Caelestor, the moral of the story is DON'T HIRE MACTORS. I agree with Hooky that ordinary folk are who I want to watch. They may not have the eye appeal of the mactors, but they have the huge advantage of being more "real."

[Hooky]

To be fair, each season always has mactors. TAR 5 and TAR 12 apparently has quite a few of them, and I consider those seasons as some of the best the show has produced.

The moral of the story: hire mactors if you really wish to, but don't make them so obvious, fake, and annoying.

If they are going to try to represent America's population as well as possible, they would probably have a couple mactors every few seasons or so. But to consciously reserve several spots every season for mactors is just plain wrong.

[Mandoli]

To be fair, each season always has mactors. TAR 5 and TAR 12 apparently has quite a few of them, and I consider those seasons as some of the best the show has produced.

The moral of the story: hire mactors if you really wish to, but don't make them so obvious, fake, and annoying.

If they are going to try to represent America's population as well as possible, they would probably have a couple mactors every few seasons or so. But to consciously reserve several spots every season for mactors is just plain wrong.

The problem about that is that these recruited teams don't represent the population of America as much as they think they do.

[Hooky]

The problem about that is that these recruited teams don't represent the population of America as much as they think they do.

Of course they don't. How embarrassing it would be if they did.

[Mandoli]

The problem about that is that these recruited teams don't represent the population of America as much as they think they do.

Of course they don't. How embarrassing it would be if they did.

The whole world would consist of beauty queens and people in the entertainment industry. Oh, God. *shudder*

[walkingpneumonia]

Don't forget that the only reason TAR is exists is because it generates advertising revenue dollars for CBS.
The way you attract advertisers is by having a large audience watching.
How do you increase the audience?
As BVM says, TAR is a show about relationships. The relationship between the two teammates, between the teams racing, and most importantly, the relationship between the teams and the audience.
Because the audience has a pre-existing relationship with the mactors, Americans care about what happens to them before they race around the world, which increases initial ratings. With unknown racers, the relationship between the racers and the audience starts at zero and has to be built by clever editing and direction over time. With only 11 episodes, its difficult to achieve an emotional connection between the audience and an unknown team. Maybe you could achieve it in a few episodes, but by that time your ratings could have tanked.

When casting/recruiting mactors for the show, I imagine TPTB go through an analysis of America's current relationship with the team and how that relationship could increase ratings before the race and as they encounter different situations during the race. TAR 16 is a good example when you look at Caite and Brent and Jeff and Jordan.
How did America feel about this team before the race?
Caite and Brent - America thinks Caite is an airheaded joke and maybe disliked for making the USA americans look foolish and uneducated.
Jeff and Jordan - America loves the sweethearts. Two good looking all-american, apple pie kids that you want to see more of.
How will America feel when this team encounters hardship and failure?
Caite and Brent - "See, I knew she was stupid. I'm outraged that she was allowed on the show. I can't wait to see what happens to her next week." Schadenfreude.
Jeff and Jordan - "Ah, poor kids. I hope they turn it around next week."
How will America feel when the team succeeds?
Caite and Brent - "Hey, maybe she's not so stupid. I wonder how she will surprise me next week."
Jeff and Jordan - "Yahoo. Can't wait to see my favourite team next week."
How will America feel when the team's adversaries are negative towards them?
Caite and Brent - "She deserves it. Ohh, I wonder if there will be a cat fight next week."
Jeff and Jordan - "I'm outraged. How could they be so mean to them?"

I think the real challenge is to find teams that evoke an instant emotional response in the audience - that's what provides the "stickiness factor" and increases ratings.
Because most of us here are TAR aficionados, our opinion of mactors is tainted by our secret (or not) desire to be on the race ourselves. The more mactors used, the less our chance of being on the race.
Here's a solution - do something that causes America to have an opinion of you - good or bad - then apply.

[georgiapeach]

Now THAT is a really great analysis!

I am a purist at heart, and would of course rather have 100% new fresh ordinary people on the race.

BUT I am also a realist, and am happy for TAR to do whatever it takes to keep the show alive. And some of the casting choices we originally questioned have later turned into beloved teams...look at Mel and Mike, Zev and Justin.

So a few teams who bring in a some built in fans and hopefully expand TAR to a new audience...okay. Some of the Jeff/Jordan fans fell in love with TAR and will be back, and it may happen with one of the TAR 17 teams as well.

But just don't forget the premise "ordinary people doing extraordinary things" either when you cast, please CBS? Keep hope alive for the thousands of applicants at home working out, planning videos, shooting videos. It is those people who are part of the bedrock of TAR's great fan base... and one of the big reason's TAR has lasted so long. If you take away the hope that "hey..I could do that!" by providing no applications, going with more and more recruited teams, using stunt teams or seasons, then there is no chance for viewers to dream.  And this show has always been about a dream...that anyone could apply and have a chance. Take away that hope...and the show loses its primary mystique. And when that finally happens, then I believe we will finally see the end of our beloved show.

So do what you must for ratings, give us a few recruited or stunt teams if you must, we understand. But use your applicant pool as well, there is GOLD in there.


Thanks wp!

[TexasLady]

Don't forget that the only reason TAR is exists is because it generates advertising revenue dollars for CBS.
The way you attract advertisers is by having a large audience watching.

Here's a solution - do something that causes America to have an opinion of you - good or bad - then apply.

WP, this is a spot-on analysis of casting and motivation by a network to produce a show that people will follow, talk about with friends, invest in their favorites. Well said! 

[Hooky]

I'm not a fan of more recruited or celebrity teams, but I agree that the reasoning behind it is solid. Thanks, WP!

I do not, however, concede that TAR NEEDS this kind of thing to stay alive. I think it can and will thrive just as well (if not better), with teams that people will develop opinions of over time. Plus, the reality is that there are people (of which I am one) who really don't care about semi-celebrities and mactors. For example, I have absolutely no opinion on Justin Bieber (a random celebrity I don't want or need to know about). If he were cast for the race, I would only be annoyed that people even care to obsessively follow him at all.

[TexasLady]

I did not really start watching TAR until the All Star season with Charla & Mirna. Charla was one of my favorites because it was physically challenging for her but she did the best she could. Who would have thought that she would even be chosen for the race. She wasn't a mactor, she wasn't a beauty pageant winner and yet she made the race interesting for me. 

There is a place for "ordinary people doing extraordinary things" which also builds an audience. 

[kadilahopper]

I guess I will be the dissenting vote on this one WP.  I don't think that mactors or recruits add that many more viewers.  TAR has a base. One that has been there from the beginning.  I believe that if casting keeps up this trend of recruiting half or more of the teams on each race that they will lose their base.  Peach is right.  Interesting unknowns who have never been in front of a camera react totally different from someone who has already been in the spotlight.  Also, for example, Jeff and Jordan were unknowns before BB.  The way they were on that show was different from the way they were on TAR.   They were jaded by the time they got to TAR.  If the casting department would take the time to look hard enough, I am sure they could find the next Rob/Amber, Frat boys, Team guido, Gretchen and Meridith. etc. etc. etc.  As Peach says, if TAR keeps casting so many semi-celebs the dream will die for all the hopefuls.  TAR'S faithful base.  When that happens, TAR will be no more.  I hope that doesn't happen.

[walkingpneumonia]

I did not really start watching TAR until the All Star season with Charla & Mirna. Charla was one of my favorites because it was physically challenging for her but she did the best she could. Who would have thought that she would even be chosen for the race. She wasn't a mactor, she wasn't a beauty pageant winner and yet she made the race interesting for me. 
There is a place for "ordinary people doing extraordinary things" which also builds an audience. 

I don't think Charla was an "ordinary people doing extraordinary things", but she is a good example of a non-celebrity who fills the same role in casting as a celebrity - they exact a reaction from the audience right from the beginning.
I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I would suggest when you first saw Charla you had an instant emotional response - "OMG - she's only 4 feet tall. How can she possibly compete against the other racers"
I had a comparable reaction to Sarah Reinertsen right from the beginning of TAR 10- "She has a prosthetic limb. Thats amazing. I want to see more."
Other people would have had similar reactions to Luke Adams (TAR 14) , Zev Glassenberg (TAR 15) because of their respective challenges. Similarly, many people react (good and bad) to homosexuals, which is why I think we see so many interesting gay people cast.

My point is that some people react to celebrities, others react to people who face physical or mental challenges or are different from themselves. But the important thing is that they do evoke a response of some sort as the race starts. That's the stickiness factor that keeps the audience coming back and that's why they get cast.
I won't talk about any specifics outside of the spoiler threads - but I think TAR 17 is going to be interesting in its casting choices... can't wait till September!

[Slowhatch]

Charla is an interesting example. It's one of those times when production/network went out looking for a specific type--in this case, little people. Charla saw a notice on a little people listserv looking for applicants. She and her tag-along Mirna then sent in a tape and went through the usual interview process.

[Caelestor]

I guess I will be the dissenting vote on this one WP.  I don't think that mactors or recruits add that many more viewers.  TAR has a base. One that has been there from the beginning.  I believe that if casting keeps up this trend of recruiting half or more of the teams on each race that they will lose their base.  Peach is right.  Interesting unknowns who have never been in front of a camera react totally different from someone who has already been in the spotlight.  Also, for example, Jeff and Jordan were unknowns before BB.  The way they were on that show was different from the way they were on TAR.   They were jaded by the time they got to TAR.  If the casting department would take the time to look hard enough, I am sure they could find the next Rob/Amber, Frat boys, Team guido, Gretchen and Meridith. etc. etc. etc.  As Peach says, if TAR keeps casting so many semi-celebs the dream will die for all the hopefuls.  TAR'S faithful base.  When that happens, TAR will be no more.  I hope that doesn't happen.

IAWTP. What sustains an audience is good will, and TAR may be losing it. Casting celebrities is a great way to get ratings in the short term but leads to declining numbers in the long term. People may watch to hate on the mactors, but they mainly watch to support people they can sympathize with.

[Competitor]

I guess I will be the dissenting vote on this one WP.  I don't think that mactors or recruits add that many more viewers.  TAR has a base. One that has been there from the beginning.  I believe that if casting keeps up this trend of recruiting half or more of the teams on each race that they will lose their base.  Peach is right.  Interesting unknowns who have never been in front of a camera react totally different from someone who has already been in the spotlight.  Also, for example, Jeff and Jordan were unknowns before BB.  The way they were on that show was different from the way they were on TAR.   They were jaded by the time they got to TAR.  If the casting department would take the time to look hard enough, I am sure they could find the next Rob/Amber, Frat boys, Team guido, Gretchen and Meridith. etc. etc. etc.  As Peach says, if TAR keeps casting so many semi-celebs the dream will die for all the hopefuls.  TAR'S faithful base.  When that happens, TAR will be no more.  I hope that doesn't happen.

IAWTP. What sustains an audience is good will, and TAR may be losing it. Casting celebrities is a great way to get ratings in the short term but leads to declining numbers in the long term. People may watch to hate on the mactors, but they mainly watch to support people they can sympathize with.

Agreed. Though celebs might bring in temporary audiences, more often than not, those audiences leave after their team is gone. So, if a team is cast and they bring their own "fans" but fail to last but two or three episodes, then a large majority of those fans are gone after their team is eliminated. In addition to this, the die hard TAR fans are even more put out because the season is filling up with people who aren't "one of them". Therefore, you are running a risk of keeping fans who are there for a team and not the show while alienating some of those who are bigger fans of the show.

[Hooky]

Agreed. Though celebs might bring in temporary audiences, more often than not, those audiences leave after their team is gone. So, if a team is cast and they bring their own "fans" but fail to last but two or three episodes, then a large majority of those fans are gone after their team is eliminated. In addition to this, the die hard TAR fans are even more put out because the season is filling up with people who aren't "one of them". Therefore, you are running a risk of keeping fans who are there for a team and not the show while alienating some of those who are bigger fans of the show.

Exactly. You hit the nail on the head.

[mswood]

Well some points.

1.  The show has always (even going to the very first season) had actor/models on it.  It's always been part of the show.

2.   Casting does not get applications that match the % of the population based on a persons career.  In fact I would guess that actors/models are more likely to submit an application then any other profession.

3.  TV is a visual medium (for good or bad), very rarely do we get ugly racers (certainly no where near the actual makeup of the average US citizen).  So casting is already going to be more likely to look after someone who is average or better looking.  They also depend on both sent in and in person interviews, in my experience actors (especially) on average come across better in both personal interviews and video or digital recordings.  These factors all help encourage a higher number of this group to be cast then what exist natural in the US.

As for recruited teams we have had all sorts.  So its hard for me to just say I dislike the practice. 

But I will say that in a couple of seasons I did really disagree with casting.  Season 6 (and they had many teams I loved) and season 12 (with an unheard number of teams who already knew each other).

[DrRox]

Well some points.

1.  The show has always (even going to the very first season) had actor/models on it.  It's always been part of the show.

2.   Casting does not get applications that match the % of the population based on a persons career.  In fact I would guess that actors/models are more likely to submit an application then any other profession.

mswood......

Sometimes it is pretty scary just how much we think alike. I have always wondered how the Season One teams were recruited/cast. If Rob and Brennan were not in the modeling biz, besides being lawyers, they sure should have been. In doing research, I just found one comment by Joe and Bill, that they saw an announcement on the Internet and applied that way. Not just anyone can afford to take six weeks off and walk away from their jobs to go film a TV pilot, basically. As you said, some peoples' choice of careers will make it easier for them to work for WRP. I would assume that WRP were posting announcements in the dailey trades to get people to apply.

Season One teams....
New York area recruits.
1) Matt and Anna...from Hartford, Conn
2) Frank and Margarita...from Queens
3) Kevin and Drew...from Staton Island I think
4) Lenny and Karyn...from across the Hudson in Jersey

From Philly area
1) Pat and Brenda...actually a little south of Philly

From Texas
1) Kim and Leslie....from Houston
2) Nancy and Emily...from Waco
3) Dave and Margretta...from Dallas (Rockdale)

From Los Angeles area
1) Rob and Brennan
2) Paul and Amiee
3) Joe and Bill

It has always interested me in how all but one team came from three clusters of recruiting areas. I guess you could put Pat and Brenda in the NYC group, because I would think that they are closer to NYC than Kim and Leslie are to Dallas. Waco is in the middle between Houston and Dallas. For some reason, I always thought Joe and Bill were from NYC, but on there team info page for Season One, Bill says he reads the Los Angeles Times everyday.....I guess he could have read it everyday in NYC, that just doesnt make sense to me.

Maybe one of you TAR Historians can send me a PM if you do not wish to post how Season One was recruited/cast. Thanks in advance.

[Coutzy]

I know that Paul was and still is a fringe actor.

[Slowhatch]

I have always wondered how the Season One teams were recruited/cast.

For some teams, by a simple group posting (the Sammi mentioned is probably Sammi Mendenhall).

[georgiapeach]

wow...the good old days!  Fun to see that!  I think I remember Bil and Joe saying they read something too...I'll have to ask them.

[DrRox]

Thanks slowhatch. I really figured it must have been an obscure post like that. I, personally, have never had any real complaints about who has ever been cast. I see the term "cannon fodder" used by a lot of people on a lot of boards and never really understand it. The older people team has only gone out in last place once that I can remember, Anita and Arthur. As far as season one, who would have thought that Matt and Anna would have been out first. They were young and pretty physically fit after  coming from the military. You just never know.

And editing makes so much of a difference. I remember hearing Eric Sanchez say that you could have taken all the footage filmed of him and Jeremy or of him and Danelle and come up with 10 different portrayals...

I have always thought that WRP has about 20 "team profiles" that they keep a list of. When it comes time to cast a show, they try to get the best 11 out of those 20 categories.

One thing that I never see mentioned by people when they talk about casting is that Casting does have a budget. They only have so much time and money to spend on casting. It seems most of the critics seem to think that casting is some kind of open ended budget. I would think that a really good casting agent, whether an in house WRP agent or an outside agent would keep an eye open for people they come across in life that might make a great team for the race. Why would a casting agent only limit themselves to just people that sent in a application to WRP?

I would think the vetting process would whittle away the applicants that they would not use. I am sure that under the pressure of the race, there are teams that they wish they had not cast. Thats a crap shoot.......As Phils says.....you just never know till they start racing.

[mswood]

Yeah budget is a serious issue with for the show.  That limits the casting to usually just a few open calls in large cities.

And yes several teams from New York in first season saw the same casting ad. 

And as for recruited teams, some times its just some one from casting seeing some one on the street that they think would be interesting other times they are done to the racers already having some visability.

I mean I don't really think of the Linz's as a recruited team, yet they are.

Generally I am fine with it unless its gets out of hand.

For example having the Globe Trotters and Maria & Tiffany seemed over kill to me.  Last season Brent & Caite and Jet & Cord and Jordan & Jeff seemed like way to many people who have already had media exposure.

Adding to the model/actor you also have the Pageant person and some seasons are just filled with them.  Again people who do train to present themselves well.  And are photogenic.

[georgiapeach]

Some casting calls in the past have been sponsored by TV stations or radio stations and not had casting crew on site...so very low budget.

Lynne Spillman has said in the past that she is never 100% present when out with friends...she is always on the lookout for interesting people for TAR and Survivor.

[DrRox]

I would think that any professional casting agent that works for a reality show, would always be on the lookout.......just makes sense.

They have had 3 TAR casting calls in my area in the short time past. I went to all 3 to observe and they were all the same. The local CBS affiliate was there with a film crew that filmed the team video. They were all at local car dealerships. There were no people from WRP or CBS California. They all seemed more like a free advertizing gig for the car dealership. The dealership provided a large venue for the crowds and got free advertizing in return from the local CBS affiliate. I didnt really stick around to much, but I suspect the CBS film crew gave the team the video tape and it was up to the team to mail them to WRP.

When I was posting about the casting budet, I really was just talking about the budget for that Dept of WRP. If you think about it, it would cost more to get an east coast team than a west coast team. LA area teams could just drive up for the process. They would have to pay to fly in an east coast team. I would suspect that this make them look a lot harder at applicants from the East and result in a lot more teams on the race from SoCal. It is just cheaper to "hire" them for the show.

I didnt really notice the "people with previous media exposure" till TAR5 with Christi and Nicole. It was stated that the Twins in TAR3 were models, but didnt really get pushed that much, to me anyway. I am sure there were more in the early seasons TAR1-4, but I never really noticed it. TAR1-4 just seemed like more average people from pretty normal walks of life. I still like Steve and Dave from TAR4 and their "Amazing Walk". I guess maybe because they are close to my age and watching Eric and Jeremy run all the time just wears me out.