Topic: Non-Elimination Legs

[DeafRacer]

Some people are driving me nuts about Non-Elimination Legs!

Some of you thinks producers just throw non-elimination in order to save their "favorite team" when they come in the last place. Why do you guys think that?

[mswood]

Because they are crazy Luke.  I honestly think they might have changed an non elimination point in All Stars, but its just a gut reaction.  But that certainly wasn't because who it was racing, but how far another team was behind and how the non elimination occurred later.

[chill_sd]

I think it's just wishful thinking, Luke.  Like some people think the "Lasso a Steer" was put in so the cowboys would have success.  Or the "Counting Chips" was supposed to help Maria and Tiffany last season.

Maybe instead of Chinese Calligraphy they should have had an ASL challenge in your season?

We all pull for our favorite teams, and want to complain when it looks like someone gets special treatment, even when we know they don't.

(By the way, I always thought they should have let you have the opportunity to hang glide, even though the winds weren't too cooperative that day.)

[Hooky]

Some people are driving me nuts about Non-Elimination Legs!

Some of you thinks producers just throw non-elimination in order to save their "favorite team" when they come in the last place. Why do you guys think that?

Why do I think that? Because it happens more often than not. It may not be true, but it happens enough for it to look suspicious.

I honestly wonder how you can look at these "coincidences" without at least a degree of suspicion. Mostly I believe that it is coincidence, but the more often it happens, the more it becomes a possibility.

[theschnauzers]

I am one of those who does not believe NELs are switched around once filming starts/  The only exception I've ever heard of what the TAR 6 leg in Hungary, and that was due to local laws that prohibited the overnight stay TPTB had planned, so they improvised the original uberleg. (Still a non-elimination, but allowed them to use the cafe as a "rest point.")

I recall when this issue first came up in TAR 3 (IIRC, Flo and Zach saved by two NELs in a row) it was conveyed that the producer execute an affidavit before filming start listing the race course and the planned tasks, as well as alternates leg in case of an emergency.

From what I've heard over the years the only leg that has ever been switched was TAR 8 that was supposed to go to Belize (one of several legs hampered by hurricanes that season that required adjustments as opposed to switching legs completely) and the filming schedule has had to be changed a few times, but nothing that would change which legs were NELs or elimination points.

I've yet to hear anything from a team or from T{TB that ever pointed to a switching of NEL legs once filming started.

[apskip]

Because they are crazy Luke.  I honestly think they might have changed an non elimination point in All Stars, but its just a gut reaction.  But that certainly wasn't because who it was racing, but how far another team was behind and how the non elimination occurred later.

theschnauzers, do you believe that the pit stop for the East Africa leg of AR11 (All-Stars) was supposed to be in Stone Town, Zanzibar Island? I don't, as a lot of evidence points to World Race Productions manipulation that leg to try to get the race into a less-spread-out configuration. That included moving the pit stop from Arusha, Tanzania, where it was originally supposed to be to
Stone Town. There is no question that they arbitrarily changed the dhow sailing times from Dar Es Salaam to Zanzibar Island to claim much more storm-related delays than were necessary.

[mswood]

Apskip

What I don't understand is why they gave a reason, instead just an Hours of Operation.  It would have been easy cost literally very little, and been something that the race has often used to bunch teams together after a large point of separation. 

[Cocoa]

If TAR Producers and TWRP do have fave (and may have made an instant NEL), then why are Charla and Mirna AND the Gaghan Family eliminated? Clearly, NEL legs are planned WAAAAYYY before the race starts, but with a few exceptions like in TAR11. However, now that NEL penalties are made into Speed Bumps instead of the giving off money or the 30-minute penalty, the producers cannot easily make a leg an NEL one based on their discretion because they must plan of a speed bump next leg.

But if the producers have planned alternate speed bumps in every leg....   

[theschnauzers]

theschnauzers, do you believe that the pit stop for the East Africa leg of AR11 (All-Stars) was supposed to be in Stone Town, Zanzibar Island?

IIRC, Phil said in a TV Guide interview that they got word fairly late in the leg that for safety reasons teams weren't going to make the originally planned pit stop without a much longer delay, and they moved it at the last minute. Moving the pit stop is a different issue than whether a leg being changed to NEL or vice versa. Regarding the boat to Zanzibar Island, I've always felt that the local company being used for the boat rides weren't ready that early, and I remember checking Weather Underground and finding that there was a tropical cyclone offshore about that time, and that the ocean conditions were quite choppy and weren't necessarily favorable for a boat ride then either. As it was, several of the teams had sea-sickness problems the next day or so when teams did head to Zanzibar Island. The East Africa legs of TAR 11 were a scheduling mess between the Hajj period travel and the offshore conditions, but other 24 hour leads have been lost in the past (Frank and Margarita from the Netherlands to India being the best example, Colin and Christie in Egypt being another.)

[mswood]

I never did the research on the offshore weather, but they had a fairly recent death (on those type of vessels not long before the race).  And as someone who has worked on a fishing boat in off the coast of Alaska, I can tell you the times the sky looked clear from Harbor and later that day finding out a boat had gone down.

I think one the huge time difference in that leg due to the complete collapse of the flight plan (for the show, I think the largest the show's ever had) just really makes that instance seem highly suspect.  While I love that teams had to scramble for flights (and not be spoon feed them) this and the air problems of the next episode really hurt that season as a whole.

[Caelestor]

I'm sorry, but consider the legal ramifications if they did such a thing. We'd hear a LOT more about it.

The only possible exceptions I know of are the middle episodes of TAR 11 and TAR 15's Netherlands leg. The random sauna bus speedbump in Estonia makes me suspicious. (Again, this is just my speculation.) I really thought that leg was set up as an NEL, but M/T's inability to even finish this leg complicated things for the producers. Quitting a roadblock puts you at a significant disadvantage, quitting a detour is a one way ticket to elimination.

[redskevin88]

Safety reasons chill. Luke needed to be able to hear cues from the instructors, which was why he was not allowed (he's deaf remember?)

[Hooky]

I think one the huge time difference in that leg due to the complete collapse of the flight plan (for the show, I think the largest the show's ever had) just really makes that instance seem highly suspect.  While I love that teams had to scramble for flights (and not be spoon feed them) this and the air problems of the next episode really hurt that season as a whole.

I actually thought that made that season a lot more entertaining. Those legs would have bored me if not for the insane flight problems.

[DeafRacer]

I think it's just wishful thinking, Luke.  Like some people think the "Lasso a Steer" was put in so the cowboys would have success.  Or the "Counting Chips" was supposed to help Maria and Tiffany last season.

Maybe instead of Chinese Calligraphy they should have had an ASL challenge in your season?

We all pull for our favorite teams, and want to complain when it looks like someone gets special treatment, even when we know they don't.

(By the way, I always thought they should have let you have the opportunity to hang glide, even though the winds weren't too cooperative that day.)

For an ASL challenge, I actually told racers about gorilla's primary language is Sign Language then they all freaked out and thought there might be an ASL challenge related with gorilla telling clue in sign language (when we got a picture of gorilla statue in Phuket). It was hilarious to see them scrambling and try to learn few signs while we were traveling from India to Thailand. But yeah I was hoping there might be an ASL challenge or something like that while we were in Europe. There's a lots of famous deaf school and deaf history in Europe. Oh well.

For paraglide, I wish that I volunteered for roadblock immediately instead of reading whole clue then I would've been forced to run down the hill immediately then I would have been able to catch up with Tammy down the trail instead of having my mom hang around and wait for wind to die down (we were on the mountains for nearly two hours before we decided that Mom should run down the mountains). But, I can't fly down anyway, I have to be able to hear the instructor's cues.

Mike (White) and I actually had a talk about non-elimination legs. Originally, we thought producers do throw non-elimination legs in to save their favorite teams for most of times so we thought the producers probably would save Mike & his dad or me and my mom if one of us comes in the last place at one point since we both were producers' favorite teams. We actually wanted to test it to see if they actually do that but we didn't want to come in the last place on purpose. I remember sitting in the ambulance in Phuket while mom's recovering, the pit stop was only like 20 feet away from us so when I see that Mike & Mel came in the last place. I was pretty sure it was non-elimination leg to save them. Then few minutes later, Mike came over and gave me a hug and said good bye. I was completely surprised then realized producers doesn't do that to save their favorite teams, non-elimination legs were actually planned way before the race started.

Some favorite teams doesn't get saved. Some favorite teams get saved. All it matters is to be in right time and right place. Pure Luck.

[mswood]

Yeah, for the most part what I think are "favorite" or "unique" teams haven't been saved that often in the race.  The team that did manage to catch both that I thought was certainly popular with people and the Producers was BJ & Tyler, but breaking down the seasons the legs were very much typical placement for where non elimination legs would be.

[Caelestor]

I think one the huge time difference in that leg due to the complete collapse of the flight plan (for the show, I think the largest the show's ever had) just really makes that instance seem highly suspect.  While I love that teams had to scramble for flights (and not be spoon feed them) this and the air problems of the next episode really hurt that season as a whole.

I actually thought that made that season a lot more entertaining. Those legs would have bored me if not for the insane flight problems.

The flights (along with the selection of a few teams) are the main reason that season wasn't very good. Maybe it's because the troubles eliminated two of my favorite teams, but really, luck-based flight searching basically knocked out them out with no chance to catch up. Not to mention the ramifications it had for the Poland legs.

We're off-topic aren't we?

[DeafRacer]

Yeah, for the most part what I think are "favorite" or "unique" teams haven't been saved that often in the race.  The team that did manage to catch both that I thought was certainly popular with people and the Producers was BJ & Tyler, but breaking down the seasons the legs were very much typical placement for where non elimination legs would be.

Didn't BJ & Tyler came in non-elimination legs twice? I met them and wow, they're reallllllly kooky. They acted like I could hear when they talked to me. Starr was like, "Luke's DEAF!"   

[mswood]

I hate to judge people from footage (because it's just not a lot to judge), but I would have strangled them.

And yeah they got saved twice by non elims.  The only other team that has happened to also won Flo & Zach.  But I never thought of Flo & Zach as being fav's of the producers.

And yeah, both non eliminations happened on legs they normally do, so I never felt it was rigged.

[DeafRacer]

I hate to judge people from footage (because it's just not a lot to judge), but I would have strangled them.

And yeah they got saved twice by non elims.  The only other team that has happened to also won Flo & Zach.  But I never thought of Flo & Zach as being fav's of the producers.

And yeah, both non eliminations happened on legs they normally do, so I never felt it was rigged.

I wanted to strangle BJ & Tyler and Eric! They're just lucky to be not on my season or I'll try to find a way to sabotage them.

There's a back to back non-elimination legs on Flo and Zach's season - the one that saved Jill & John then Flo & Zach right? I'm surprised they haven't done that for a while. I think producers miiiight be able to switch non-elimination legs on earlier seasons since they got a lot of rooms with the budget before the world took a nosedive into recession.... who knows.

[Hooky]

I think one the huge time difference in that leg due to the complete collapse of the flight plan (for the show, I think the largest the show's ever had) just really makes that instance seem highly suspect.  While I love that teams had to scramble for flights (and not be spoon feed them) this and the air problems of the next episode really hurt that season as a whole.

I actually thought that made that season a lot more entertaining. Those legs would have bored me if not for the insane flight problems.

The flights (along with the selection of a few teams) are the main reason that season wasn't very good. Maybe it's because the troubles eliminated two of my favorite teams, but really, luck-based flight searching basically knocked out them out with no chance to catch up. Not to mention the ramifications it had for the Poland legs.

We're off-topic aren't we?

Wow, I'm surprised everyone thinks the flights killed All-Stars. In my opinion, the unprecedented nature of that event made up for the lack of unpredictability it brought into Legs 6-8. For me it was a few of the teams chosen (but thankfully most fell out early), the three final four legs which were too boring without any eliminations, and the not-so-epic route (and tasks sometimes) that brought AS down. Oh yeah, and the Antarctica promise that didn't come true (it was really us taking false bait, but still not so nice of BVM). Not the best season, but upper-middle I'd say.

I LOVED BJ & Tyler. Loved them from the first moment I saw them. Truly fun-loving, fascinated with the world goofballs who made the final legs much more entertaining. Put almost any of the eliminated teams into the Final 3 in place of the hippies and what would we have? A snoozefest. BJ & Tyler made Season 9 great (or killed it, I'm sure, for those who hated them). But I honestly have no clue how you could hate them. They may have hogged the camera a little, but the editors were gracious and kept things balanced (thankfully).

[Caelestor]

Hate on the alpha males in TAR 9 all you want, but that season was much more competitive than a majority of recent seasons. The fact that placements went back and forth, and that I had no idea who was going to win made it all the more interesting. Locations and tasks are some of the best the race has ever offered.

We're still off-topic, but this is too interesting to talk about. Still don't like All-Stars as a whole.

[Jobby]

Because they are crazy Luke.  I honestly think they might have changed an non elimination point in All Stars, but its just a gut reaction.  But that certainly wasn't because who it was racing, but how far another team was behind and how the non elimination occurred later.

How was the Allstars NEL fishy? They used it on U/J for the first one at the F7... but later on at the Final 5... which i thought was supposed to be an NEL.. it was actually an elimination leg and eliminated them.

[Jobby]

If TAR Producers and TWRP do have fave (and may have made an instant NEL), then why are Charla and Mirna AND the Gaghan Family eliminated? Clearly, NEL legs are planned WAAAAYYY before the race starts, but with a few exceptions like in TAR11. However, now that NEL penalties are made into Speed Bumps instead of the giving off money or the 30-minute penalty, the producers cannot easily make a leg an NEL one based on their discretion because they must plan of a speed bump next leg.

But if the producers have planned alternate speed bumps in every leg....   

I want to believe that NELs are pre-determined.. but you have to agree with me recent Speedbumps are pretty lame. Delivering a bowl of noodles in vietnam? Having a suana on a bus for 5 minutes?

Errr, that could have been easily incorporated into the race without much problem. Thus they're still able to switch things up abit.

But i darn agree with what you said about Schmirna and Gaghans getting eliminated if they're pre-determined.

But it is also because of NELs that we have some of our most memorable teams - Flo and Zach, Colin and Christie, Meredith and Gretchen, BJ and Tyler (I hated them, but oh well), David and Mary, Maria and Tiffany etc etc.

[Jobby]

I think one the huge time difference in that leg due to the complete collapse of the flight plan (for the show, I think the largest the show's ever had) just really makes that instance seem highly suspect.  While I love that teams had to scramble for flights (and not be spoon feed them) this and the air problems of the next episode really hurt that season as a whole.

I actually thought that made that season a lot more entertaining. Those legs would have bored me if not for the insane flight problems.

The flights (along with the selection of a few teams) are the main reason that season wasn't very good. Maybe it's because the troubles eliminated two of my favorite teams, but really, luck-based flight searching basically knocked out them out with no chance to catch up. Not to mention the ramifications it had for the Poland legs.

We're off-topic aren't we?

Wow, I'm surprised everyone thinks the flights killed All-Stars. In my opinion, the unprecedented nature of that event made up for the lack of unpredictability it brought into Legs 6-8. For me it was a few of the teams chosen (but thankfully most fell out early), the three final four legs which were too boring without any eliminations, and the not-so-epic route (and tasks sometimes) that brought AS down. Oh yeah, and the Antarctica promise that didn't come true (it was really us taking false bait, but still not so nice of BVM). Not the best season, but upper-middle I'd say.

I LOVED BJ & Tyler. Loved them from the first moment I saw them. Truly fun-loving, fascinated with the world goofballs who made the final legs much more entertaining. Put almost any of the eliminated teams into the Final 3 in place of the hippies and what would we have? A snoozefest. BJ & Tyler made Season 9 great (or killed it, I'm sure, for those who hated them). But I honestly have no clue how you could hate them. They may have hogged the camera a little, but the editors were gracious and kept things balanced (thankfully).

I have to say, BJ and Tyler, Eric and Jeremy, MoJo and Lake and Michelle killed TAR 9 altogether. But the fact that BJ and Tyler won killed the season entirely for me. And the reason why people hate them is because BJ and Tyler had no idea how annoying they were. Had they been an amazing team who's so fun loving and everything, they would have been asked back for Allstars.

But they were not.

Darn those NELs which saved them...

[Cocoa]

Lets ask the question straight from the Horse's Mouth! I *think* there is someone here in RFF who is a producer of the show (saw his name in the credits, I think?). 

[Coutzy]

Lets ask the question straight from the Horse's Mouth! I *think* there is someone here in RFF who is a producer of the show (saw his name in the credits, I think?). 

With Puddin's knowledge of every elimination ever (She probably knows the bootlist for season 17 already) I wouldn't be surprised if she turned out to be Phil in disguise.

[nathandg0924]

I have to say, BJ and Tyler, Eric and Jeremy, MoJo and Lake and Michelle killed TAR 9 altogether. But the fact that BJ and Tyler won killed the season entirely for me. And the reason why people hate them is because BJ and Tyler had no idea how annoying they were. Had they been an amazing team who's so fun loving and everything, they would have been asked back for Allstars.

But they were not.

Darn those NELs which saved them...

GRRR! How could you you hate BJ and Tyler!!! They're one of my faves! Unless you're just kidding (which I hope you are) and dont use those many emoticons on hating teams!

I doubt they are making these legs NELs  just to save the teams, they probably planned this from the beggining but definitely it was difficult to see their faves (and our faves) eliminated. In the case of the last leg, they probably planned that the leg in Germany be non elimination! Which is why Jordan and Jeff are not eliminated. There were a lot of cases that teams that we disliked were save by the NELs

Warning: Those who hate BJ and Tyler will be in very big trouble with me

[georgiapeach]

Lets ask the question straight from the Horse's Mouth! I *think* there is someone here in RFF who is a producer of the show (saw his name in the credits, I think?). 

NO relation, uycocoa.

[Evan_Weinstein]

i bet you are referring to me, all i can say, that there is a coincidence, however i am 100% chinese native,  the name was given by a german friend of mine, when i was young, as he thinks that i know many stuffs from the bible, so he eventually thinks that my future occupation will be a evangelist (evan), and wein (wine) stein(stone) is another term for pulpit. However i thank Peach for clearing the air here

Lets ask the question straight from the Horse's Mouth! I *think* there is someone here in RFF who is a producer of the show (saw his name in the credits, I think?). 

[theschnauzers]

For the record, I found BJ & Tyler painful to watch, and it was equally painful that they won. I thought their humor if that is what it was to be juvenile.

Coincidence and evidence of deception (which is what would be involved if TPTB were able to switch the legs designated for NELs) are not the same thing. Circumstances and inferences and innuendo are just not sufficient in and of themselves to prove an argument. (Even though politicians do this all of the time, that still doesn't make it valid.)

[Caelestor]

Back to NEL discussion for me.

Does anybody think that the Poland leg was designed to be a TBC, but the flight fiasco forced the producers to break it up?

[mswood]

Add me into the didn't like BJ & Tyler (though I didn't hate them, as I liked that they worked well together, got along with locals, and were competitive), I hated their over the top personality (which to me was extremely grating).  The only problem I had with them winning is something that wasn't their fault but how the ace was designed up until season 12.  Season 1 - 11 featured final legs that we're often easier to win then the average leg of the season itself, when I personally think that the final leg should be the leg that is the most difficult to win.  If BJ & Tyler had run a stronger leg then (even with the end of the leg equalizer) no problem, but they didn't (and this something that has occurred with many of the winners of TAR season 1 - 11, so not picking on BJ & Tyler).  In fact with all the changes to TAR in recent years the single best chance (my opinion of course) is making the final leg having only one point of equalization and that is at the very beginning of the leg.  Thus you live and die on your own ability (and of course random luck).

[mswood]

Back to NEL discussion for me.

Does anybody think that the Poland leg was designed to be a TBC, but the flight fiasco forced the producers to break it up?

That doesn't make any sense.  Why would the flight problem need to break it up?   

In all TBC legs (with one possible exception in season 14) there is a period of time that prevents teams from making forward progress.  This is typically in the same range of the Pit Stop (meaning at least 12 hours though it has been has much as 18 hours).

If you look at the 1st Poland leg, since Teams are giving a flight to take (though none are successful in getting this flight) that would get them to Poland 11:25am.  It took on average a bit over 3.5 hours for teams to complete (but we also had one take  5 hours, another that took 7 and a half to complete the days tasks. 

Now some people think that the general task in Aushwitz could have been done at any time (I tend to think it was deliberately kept at night, when it is closed to the general public).  If that is the case.  Then teams still would have needed that 1pm bus ride to get them their.  And that is clearly not possible (only one team would managed that and that was with a significantly earlier flight then that provided by production).  In fact even the 5 pm bus would have had several teams miss if using the provided flights.

So I don't see why a change from a non elimination leg to a TBC leg (which really they are the same, just one provides sleeping and food for racers the other doesn't.

[mswood]

Because they are crazy Luke.  I honestly think they might have changed an non elimination point in All Stars, but its just a gut reaction.  But that certainly wasn't because who it was racing, but how far another team was behind and how the non elimination occurred later.

How was the Allstars NEL fishy? They used it on U/J for the first one at the F7... but later on at the Final 5... which i thought was supposed to be an NEL.. it was actually an elimination leg and eliminated them.

Many people think it was odd having Uchenna & Joyce get eliminated on Leg 9.  Many thought that was the planned non elimination leg (they were 14-16 hours behind at that point).  Several things that were odd.  Normally when on an elimination leg, if you are hopelessly behind the producers will either cut short your tasks and direct you to the Pit Stop, or have Phil Journey out to you and eliminate you on the spot.  I can't recall a single leg ever letting a racing team continue racing all the way to the Pit Stop (and if Uchenna & Joyce are telling the truth they did the full leg, cookies, and Joyce did Papers) when you are a full 12 hours behind from all other teams.

They do this for non elimination and TBC legs though.

The only problem is that, if it was a non Elim there was still no reasonable means for Uchenna & Joyce to catch up.  The detectives that season figured out that (even with the late flight that Eric & Danielle took) they would not have been able to make that.  That they would have at best still checked into the next leg a full half day behind.

The next leg was a non elimination leg, the next leg was also a non elimination leg (and this was with teams getting those new penalties of needed to finish 1st or suffer a thirty minute penalty).  It just seems reduntant to have two of those back to back.

It seems more logical to have episode 9 be a non elim, then 10 an elimination, then 11 a non elimination.

When you factor in the rest it just looks highly unusual.

And what would have been the difference.  If it was originally a non elim, then in episode 10 Uchenna & Joyce would have been eliminated.  There was no way to change that.  The only difference is that Eric & Danielle wouldn't have been last and thus had to suffer a penalty on that leg (of which they couldn't have been eliminated on any way).  Eric & Danielle still would have been late getting to the tower jump (they still would have been the team yielded), they just would have gotten 2nd place not third.

[mswood]

I think one the huge time difference in that leg due to the complete collapse of the flight plan (for the show, I think the largest the show's ever had) just really makes that instance seem highly suspect.  While I love that teams had to scramble for flights (and not be spoon feed them) this and the air problems of the next episode really hurt that season as a whole.

I actually thought that made that season a lot more entertaining. Those legs would have bored me if not for the insane flight problems.

The flights (along with the selection of a few teams) are the main reason that season wasn't very good. Maybe it's because the troubles eliminated two of my favorite teams, but really, luck-based flight searching basically knocked out them out with no chance to catch up. Not to mention the ramifications it had for the Poland legs.

We're off-topic aren't we?

Wow, I'm surprised everyone thinks the flights killed All-Stars. In my opinion, the unprecedented nature of that event made up for the lack of unpredictability it brought into Legs 6-8. For me it was a few of the teams chosen (but thankfully most fell out early), the three final four legs which were too boring without any eliminations, and the not-so-epic route (and tasks sometimes) that brought AS down.

The reason I hate them is that, this random failure in planning by the race really put teams in an uneven place.  It is one thing for racers to take chances (both good and bad with flights which we saw that season), and I like flights not all being spoon feed to racers.  But we are talking about teams managing (through basic luck) time difference of 12 - 18 hours on two different legs.  It is unusual for events outside the racers control to have such a significant impact on the race.  Take cabs, you can get a bad cab that loses you 15 min up to even an hour (rarely more) yet racers till have the ability to get out and try another.  Hell I don't mind racers driving to the wrong side of a country or driving to the wrong side of a continent, or picking up a local who takes them way of course.  Those are all things they have control over.  It was their choice.  I mean for amounts of that large, that are outside of production and racers control then you might as well just remove all pit Stops and just let teams have a run at it.  I am quite willing to beat that most fans of the show don't want that.  As in many cases the race would pretty much be decided by leg 4 or 5.

[Hooky]

Back to NEL discussion for me.

Does anybody think that the Poland leg was designed to be a TBC, but the flight fiasco forced the producers to break it up?

No, I doubt they were. In fact it was the flights that were the reason why those two legs were shown in one episode, because of Dustin & Kandice leaving before the last few teams were even checked in. I thought it was a really interesting way to do it, actually. Not very traditional, but much more realistic.

But two legs in one episode is not evidence of a double-length leg. In reality I think it was structured similarly to Season 10: the non-elims coincided with TAR 10's non-elims, the Intersection was again on Leg 8, and yes, once again, Leg 8 was an elimination leg. The only difference was the Uchenna & Joyce mercy elimination, which I doubt was originally planned to be that way. Two non-elims in a row with only the Final 4 is kind of anti-climatic.

[Cocoa]

Lets ask the question straight from the Horse's Mouth! I *think* there is someone here in RFF who is a producer of the show (saw his name in the credits, I think?). 

NO relation, uycocoa.

I thought so too Peach. No producer is gonna grace here in RFF with his name as the username. 

BUT BUT BUT, I took a risk, I copied the answers of Evan (from Episode 5) to the RFF PickEm Game, which turned out to be a devasting decision. 

[Jobby]

I have to say, BJ and Tyler, Eric and Jeremy, MoJo and Lake and Michelle killed TAR 9 altogether. But the fact that BJ and Tyler won killed the season entirely for me. And the reason why people hate them is because BJ and Tyler had no idea how annoying they were. Had they been an amazing team who's so fun loving and everything, they would have been asked back for Allstars.

But they were not.

Darn those NELs which saved them...

GRRR! How could you you hate BJ and Tyler!!! They're one of my faves! Unless you're just kidding (which I hope you are) and dont use those many emoticons on hating teams!

I doubt they are making these legs NELs  just to save the teams, they probably planned this from the beggining but definitely it was difficult to see their faves (and our faves) eliminated. In the case of the last leg, they probably planned that the leg in Germany be non elimination! Which is why Jordan and Jeff are not eliminated. There were a lot of cases that teams that we disliked were save by the NELs

Warning: Those who hate BJ and Tyler will be in very big trouble with me

 

Back to NEL discussion for me!

I knew there was something fishy with the Allstars NEL because they just can't have 2 F4 NEL back to back.. that's why i raised my suspicion.
Another one would be M/T getting eliminated in TAR 15.. i think it was meant to be an NEL. Seriously.

[Coutzy]

I have to say, BJ and Tyler, Eric and Jeremy, MoJo and Lake and Michelle killed TAR 9 altogether. But the fact that BJ and Tyler won killed the season entirely for me. And the reason why people hate them is because BJ and Tyler had no idea how annoying they were. Had they been an amazing team who's so fun loving and everything, they would have been asked back for Allstars.

But they were not.

Darn those NELs which saved them...

GRRR! How could you you hate BJ and Tyler!!! They're one of my faves! Unless you're just kidding (which I hope you are) and dont use those many emoticons on hating teams!

I doubt they are making these legs NELs  just to save the teams, they probably planned this from the beggining but definitely it was difficult to see their faves (and our faves) eliminated. In the case of the last leg, they probably planned that the leg in Germany be non elimination! Which is why Jordan and Jeff are not eliminated. There were a lot of cases that teams that we disliked were save by the NELs

Warning: Those who hate BJ and Tyler will be in very big trouble with me

 

Back to NEL discussion for me!

I knew there was something fishy with the Allstars NEL because they just can't have 2 F4 NEL back to back.. that's why i raised my suspicion.
Another one would be M/T getting eliminated in TAR 15.. i think it was meant to be an NEL. Seriously.

I don't believe that Maria and Tiffany's elimination had anything to do with the Detour. If you look at all the other NEL's, they all contain a BIG luck task just before the Pit Stop (Sushi Roulette, Haybales and Find the mini instrument)

[misterblah]

Non elim legs have to be in the race since ther would be more episodes and locations. But I hate it when a back-of-the-pack team is always saved by non-elim. 

[Dånooky]

Non elim legs have to be in the race since ther would be more episodes and locations. But I hate it when a back-of-the-pack team is always saved by non-elim. 

Well...obviously a back o the pack team will be saved by a NEL, since the NEL'd team is usually the last one...

[redskevin88]

Evan Weinstein  (I)
Producer: "The Amazing Race: Donkeys Have Souls, Too (#12.1)". Visit IMDb for Photos, ... Find where Evan Weinstein is credited alongside another name ...

[Wadsy]

I know this topic has not been responded to in many years but I wanted to mention a few things.
I don't believe in the producers saving a favorite team, but I have to question situations where teams were unable to finish a challenge where Phil had to go to their location and eliminate them.

Could any of these been a non-elimination that was changed because that team had no chance of catching up?
TAR 11 Leg 9
TAR 15 Leg 7
TAR 29 Leg 4 (probably unlikely)
TAR 30 Leg 9

Would producers be allowed to do this even?
It's those four episodes above that really stood out to me.

[Declive]

I love that Luke started this thread. 

[claude_24hrs]

TAR 23 Leg 3 was planned to be a NEL but with a late arrival of Chester & Ephraim in Lisbon, this changed into an EL.

[redskevin88]

TAR 23 Leg 3 was planned to be a NEL but with a late arrival of Chester & Ephraim in Lisbon, this changed into an EL.

Source?

[georgiapeach]

TAR 23 Leg 3 was planned to be a NEL but with a late arrival of Chester & Ephraim in Lisbon, this changed into an EL.

Provide evidence please.

[georgiapeach]

Could any of these been a non-elimination that was changed because that team had no chance of catching up?
...
Would producers be allowed to do this even?

NO. In some ways we are considered a game show. Under US laws all All legs are planned well in advance and must be followed.. Things that affect placement MUST be documented.

[G.B.]

Could any of these been a non-elimination that was changed because that team had no chance of catching up?
...
Would producers be allowed to do this even?

See: James & Abba

[OMGitsGARRET]

Wasn't there a rumor that this past season 32 leg 4 was originally supposed to be an elimination, but because of all the taxi problems in Paraguay and Kaylynn & Haley falling so far behind, that it was changed to a non-elimination at the last minute?

Not sure how accurate that was, but I remember seeing that said on here. Do we have any information on that?

[G.B.]

People always claim NEL shenanigans when the Race doesn't go the way they want it to.