Topic: Timetables and Flight Information

[apskip]

Here we go again. I have decided that a potential way of locating where AR13 sent from LAX is to compare the international flight routes from  LAX from 1pm to minight for both American Airlines and United Airlines. This is based on reports that teams were in both of those those terminals, although that certainly does not guarantee that my method of analysis will lead anywhere useful. Let's see.

So, I start with the American Airlines international(excluding Canada) schedules for nonstop and direct flights from LAX. There are a myriad of connecting flights to everywhere, so in order to put some boundary on this analysis I have limited it as stated. That does prove to be somewhat limiting, since American flies  lots of routes to Europe and to Latin America from O'Hare, DFW and Miami, but very few from LAX. Here is where it does go:

Auckland
Beijing
Brisbane
Guadalajara(2)
Hong Kong
Lima
London Heathrow(2)
Melbourne(2)
Mexico(2)
Monterrey, Mexico (2)
Santiago, Chile
Shanghai
Sydney(2)
Taipei
Tokyo - Narita

OK, now it's time to overlay the United Airlines schedule for only those cities for 1pm to midnight departures onto the above. Here is what gets eliminated:

Guadalajara
Lima
Santiago
Shanghai

Hong Kong is also eliminated for having flight arrivals 11 hours apart, which is too far for fairness to the teams.

Here are the AA and UA schedules in thet designated time frame for the remaining cities(Note that most AA flight are 4 digit code-shares that are not operated by AA. Also note that I have allowed some UA connections to match up with AA nonstop/direct destinations rather than just eliminating them.):

Auckland - AA7337 2045 0505+2, UA9549 2145 0530+2, UA9545 2230 0615+2

Beijing - AA5790 1330 2320+1, UA4456 0140 0520+1 (Note: this departure is 12 hours later, arrival is only 6 hours later and little is open in the interim, so this could work even though departure is after the allowed window)

Briisbane - AA7298 2320 0605+2, UA839/9507 SYD connection 2226 0955+2, UA9545/9595 AKL connection 2230 1055+2

London Heathrow - AA136 1800 1225+1, AA134 2030 1450+1, UA934 1311 0740+1

Melbourne - AA7356 2340 0755+2, AA7337 2045 0815+2, UA9595/9543 AKL connection 2230 0950+2

Mexico City - AA8301 1320 1855, AA8303 1745 2320, UA817 1335 1916

Monterrey - AA8311 1610 1740, UA5436 516 1638, UA5437 1815 1937

Sydney - AA7364 2030 0605+2, AA7366 2350 0725+2, UA839 2226 0610+2

Taipei - AA7967 1635 2155+1, UA891/UA9683 NRT connection 1259 2050+1

Tokyo Narita - AA5829 1320 1640+1, UA 9685 1255 1625+1, UA891 1259 1631+1


So, where does that leave us. My hunch is that teams landed in Melbourne, but it could also be Sydney or Auckland, all of which were early in the morning of April 24. It is now the morning of April 25 in New Zealand and Australia, so it could be difficult to catch up with them.

[Kogs]

see'ing how they wont have them sit around an airport till night time on the day of the race, my guess apskip is either they flew to south america via other airports or they went to japan. the united flight from lax on tuesday left around the same time as the jal flight to tokyo.  the hong kong flight from lax to hkg on united was cancelled on tuesday.

just some food for thought.

[georgiapeach]

Good work guys!

[Kogs]

Good work guys!

using flightaware's tuesday lax departures its easy to put 2 and 2 together on how to figure out where they went. but since we have info of no american airlines ticket buying its more likely that they prob went to tokyo than say argentina through other cities

[gingerman28]

Good work guys!

using flightaware's tuesday lax departures its easy to put 2 and 2 together on how to figure out where they went. but since we have info of no american airlines ticket buying its more likely that they prob went to tokyo than say argentina through other cities

Let's not get too enamored with a East to West itinerary.  Remember TAR12 went from LAX to Ireland.

And when starting in Chicago teams went to Europe via Minneapolis, Boston and Baltimore

And will TPTB bypass South America two races in a row???

[Kogs]

Good work guys!

using flightaware's tuesday lax departures its easy to put 2 and 2 together on how to figure out where they went. but since we have info of no american airlines ticket buying its more likely that they prob went to tokyo than say argentina through other cities

Let's not get too enamored with a East to West itinerary.  Remember TAR12 went from LAX to Ireland.

And when starting in Chicago teams went to Europe via Minneapolis, Boston and Baltimore

And will TPTB bypass South America two races in a row???

i checked into that to g-man only place that would be afficiant for them to go from lax is to EZE in argentina via chicago,dullas, or miami.

[gingerman28]

Good work guys!

using flightaware's tuesday lax departures its easy to put 2 and 2 together on how to figure out where they went. but since we have info of no american airlines ticket buying its more likely that they prob went to tokyo than say argentina through other cities

Let's not get too enamored with a East to West itinerary.  Remember TAR12 went from LAX to Ireland.

And when starting in Chicago -TAR 6 - teams went to Iceland via Minneapolis, Boston and Baltimore

And will TPTB bypass South America two races in a row???

Could be the teams took United flights or American flights connecting to somewhere in South America. (Via Chicago, Dallas/Fort Worth, Miami0

[Kogs]

Good work guys!

using flightaware's tuesday lax departures its easy to put 2 and 2 together on how to figure out where they went. but since we have info of no american airlines ticket buying its more likely that they prob went to tokyo than say argentina through other cities

Let's not get too enamored with a East to West itinerary.  Remember TAR12 went from LAX to Ireland.

And when starting in Chicago -TAR 6 - teams went to Iceland via Minneapolis, Boston and Baltimore

And will TPTB bypass South America two races in a row???

Could be the teams took United flights or American flights connecting to somewhere in South America. (Via Chicago, Dallas/Fort Worth, Miami0

g-man the united fligth would have been to dullas not chicago, while the american flights where either chicago or miami if we are going that route if it is south america

[gingerman28]

Thanks to Peach's glorious discovery I decided to go down to LAX and check it out.  Again.  I had spent last Sunday afternoon there (4/20/08) and that was a bust.

But today's trip yields some new information.  I found several staffers who had seen filming yesterday.  One team was at the northmost main entry of Tom Bradley terminal having an interview.  Not rushed.

One team was at the American Airlines terminal being interviewed off in a quiet corner.

One United Employee in the domestic terminal (#6) had heard of TAR filming (she actually said Amazing Race) that happened in the their international terminal (#7). 

Two employees at the United International terminal had seen 3 teams arrive and purchase tickets at the far east end of the counters.  I asked if they had seen colored flags around any where:  "Any little flags stuck on the poles over there?  Like red and..."  And the guy said "Oh yes, Red and Gold"  That's close enough for me!  The gal said there was one team that was 'hippie' like with long white hair (she demonstrated with her hands at mid chest level).  They were an older couple, as in, male and female.  She estimated their ages to be 40's or 50's.  She also mentioned the two girls and another team that was just a regular young couple in their 20's.

No employees at either AA (terminal 4) or Delta (terminal 5) had seen any ticket buying by filmed pairs going at their counters.

So teams are seen buying tickets at United's Interntional counter.  So where does United fly to from LAX?  Or are they connecting through some other US airport and then continuing overseas.  This could mean anything: flight to the West (Asia or Australia or Oceania); flight to the South (Surinam, Guatemala, Argentine) or East (Europe).  Only direction eliminated is North since it is not likely that they would be flying to Canada to start the race.

[georgiapeach]

I have already ruled out TAR coming thru Dallas/Dulles/Chicago and can certainly relook at Miami...

Even if this a connecting/non-filming  airport I think they would still need official approval...and there wasn't any given.

G-man--I think apskip and kogs have the possible international  flights pretty well laid out here...

Have one more thing to try re their destinations and it is being worked on...

[Neobie]

Per the sighting Tuesday night at Chicago, I suppose they're headed East? (As opposed to the Far East?)

I see plenty, plenty of flights from LAX to ORD (duh). But just for reference's sake, under American and United:

AA 1546: 1530 to 2130
AA 1624: 1415 to 2015
AA 2074: 1300 to 1905
AA 1890: 1525 to 2325 (probably too late)

UA 114: 1204 to 1807
UA 116: 1255 to 1855
UA 843: 1405 to 2005
UA 122: 1600 to 2152
UA 124: 1804 to 2359 (probably too late)

Does anyone know the flight time from LA to Chicago? From these times it looks like 6 hours, but from both the AA and UA sites they list times ranging around 4 hours. Computer error or something else?

Can't believe it's happening again!

(Edited because 1405 to 2005 is 6 hours, not 8. Sorry for the wonky maths.)

[Kogs]

Per the sighting Tuesday night at Chicago, I suppose they're headed East? (As opposed to the Far East?)

I see plenty, plenty of flights from LAX to ORD (duh). But just for reference's sake, under American and United:

AA 1546: 1530 to 2130
AA 1624: 1415 to 2015
AA 2074: 1300 to 1905
AA 1890: 1525 to 2325 (probably too late)

UA 114: 1204 to 1807
UA 116: 1255 to 1855
UA 843: 1405 to 2005
UA 122: 1600 to 2152
UA 124: 1804 to 2359 (probably too late)

Does anyone know the flight time from LA to Chicago? From these times it looks like 8 hours, but from both the AA and UA sites they list times ranging around 4 hours. Computer error or something else?

Can't believe it's happening again!

neobie i believe we are looking at american to chicago on flight 2074

[graytex]

Well, at the urging of a friend, here's my first post.

American flight 961 left Chicago at 8:52pm bound for Buenos Aires.  It left out of Terminal 3, gate K11, which is primarily a domestic terminal, but does have international flights.  The photo of the racer was taken at 7:08pm Chicago time by someone flying in from California, so that all seems to fit together.  I also can't find any non-stop flights from LAX to Buenos Aires, so everyone would have to connect through another city.

If they flew United, it looks like those flights are routed through Dulles.

Oh, and this:  Hi Peach!   

[Kogs]

Well, at the urging of a friend, here's my first post.

American flight 961 left Chicago at 8:52pm bound for Buenos Aires.  It left out of Terminal 3, gate K11, which is primarily a domestic terminal, but does have international flights.  The photo of the racer was taken at 7:08pm Chicago time by someone flying in from California, so that all seems to fit together.  I also can't find any non-stop flights from LAX to Buenos Aires, so everyone would have to connect through another city.

If they flew United, it looks like those flights are routed through Dulles.

Oh, and this:  Hi Peach!   

Welcome grattex 

check out over here

http://forum.realityfanforum.com/index.php/topic,15356.0.html

[graytex]

Thanks Kogs.

One other thing I found:  The American flight from Chicago just began in January, and there are very few cities with service to Buenos Aires, if that is the first stop.

ambassador
Ambassador's Speech
REMARKS BY AMBASSADOR WAYNE AT AMERICAN AIRLINES COCKTAIL RECEPTION
January 22, 2008

I want to welcome all of you this evening.  It is a pleasure to have the opportunity to host this event celebrating American Airlines’ new direct flight from Chicago to Buenos Aires.
 
Particularly, I would like to welcome the members of our delegation from Chicago who have actually arrived via American Flight #961. Hopefully you had a smooth flight; if not there might be someone in this room you can talk to!

In July of last year, the United States and Argentina signed a Bilateral Agreement on Civil Aviation, which will allow the number of flights between our two countries to double.

I commend American Airlines for immediately seizing this opportunity as they are the first, in what I hope to be several, new flights between the U.S. and Argentina in the near future.

Perhaps most importantly, the increase in flights will facilitate greater travel between our two countries, which will help promote cultural exchange and foster business opportunities.

It is no coincidence that U.S. airline companies have had direct flights originating in Atlanta, Dallas, Houston, Miami, New York City, Washington D.C, and Dallas as these cities offer Argentines excellent business and tourism destinations and offer easy connections to other U.S. cities. 

Now, I am hopeful that our Argentine friends will have a greater opportunity to explore the wonderful city of Chicago.

 

[apskip]

Per the sighting Tuesday night at Chicago, I suppose they're headed East? (As opposed to the Far East?)

Does anyone know the flight time from LA to Chicago? From these times it looks like 6 hours, but from both the AA and UA sites they list times ranging around 4 hours. Computer error or something else?

Nope, Neobie, geography error. There is a two hour time zone difference between LAX and ORD. LAX is PDT and ORD iS CDT, which are 2 hours apart.

[apskip]

For those of you wanting to know how teams went on United to Buenos Aires, there is only one way they could have done it:

LAX IAD(Washington Dulles) UA862 1254 2050, then a very tight connection to
IAD EZE                                 UA847 2145 0920+1 

The comparable AA flights already stated by others have a slightly more comfortable connection in O'Hare:

LAX ORD  AA2074 1300 1905
ORD EZE AA961 2010 0915+1 (Note: if this left at 852pm it was 42 minutes late and this could make it arrive after the United flight into Buenos Aires)

It should be noted that there was another comparable AA flight conncection through Miami in the right time frame, so it is likely that a third group of AR13 teams could have gone that way and arrived first:

LAX MIA AA252 1355 2142 (Note the ample connect time)
MIA EZE AA943 2320 0855

This would demonstrate the common Amazing Race trick of having teams compete hard to get on the first plane that leaves, which can turn out to be the last that arrives after a longer flight path or connection.

And there is also a fourth flight connection on AA through DFW:

LAX DFW AA2448  1325 1829 (Note: this is a modearte connection compared to the others)
DFW EZE AA997    1935 0805

The best connection of all is a 1320 AA nonstop from LAX to Lima, Peru, connecting to an LAN flight but the arrival into EZE is quite a bit earlier at 0740 and I doubt that American reservations agents would have booked this with 3 AA alternatives plus one UA available.

[Kogs]

For those of you wanting to know how teams went on United to Buenos Aires, there is only one way they could have done it:

LAX IAD(Washington Dulles) UA862 1254 2050, then a very tight connection to
IAD EZE                                 UA847 2145 0920+1 

The comparable AA flights already stated by others have a slightly more comfortable connection in O'Hare:

LAX ORD  AA2074 1300 1905
ORD EZE AA961 2010 0915+1 (Note: if this left at 852pm it was 42 minutes late and this could make it arrive after the United flight into Buenos Aires)

both flights from chicago and dulles where delayed to eze on tuesday night.

[Neobie]

Oops, apskip! That was embarassing!

Are there any other options from Chicago on Tuesday night we could be looking at? I don't know how to work the websites...

[Kogs]

Oops, apskip! That was embarassing!

Are there any other options from Chicago on Tuesday night we could be looking at? I don't know how to work the websites...

neobie i went through every possibility. thats how i matched chicago and dulles to eze.

[graytex]

So the American flight was supposed to arrive 5 minutes before United, but was 42 minutes late leaving.

The United flight left 33 minutes late (left at 10:18pm EDT).  If the scheduled flight time was exactly right (unlikely) the United flight would have ended up arriving 4 minutes earlier.  Really close!  That could add some excitement to the race.

So we've talked about 2 flights.  Aren't there usually 3 flights out of the starting gate?

[Kogs]

So the American flight was supposed to arrive 5 minutes before United, but was 42 minutes late leaving.

The United flight left 33 minutes late (left at 10:18pm EDT).  If the scheduled flight time was exactly right (unlikely) the United flight would have ended up arriving 4 minutes earlier.  Really close!  That could add some excitement to the race.

So we've talked about 2 flights.  Aren't there usually 3 flights out of the starting gate?

only 4 seasons used 3 flights the latest was tar9

[georgiapeach]

A BIG  to graytex!!   Finally! 

Just as an intro to the rest of the team, graytex is a friend who has already helped us with TAR detecting behind the scenes several times before--particularly in India last season. 

I know we will be glad of his help during the upcoming season!

  Glad you are finally here! 

[apskip]

So the American flight was supposed to arrive 5 minutes before United, but was 42 minutes late leaving.

The United flight left 33 minutes late (left at 10:18pm EDT).  If the scheduled flight time was exactly right (unlikely) the United flight would have ended up arriving 4 minutes earlier.  Really close!  That could add some excitement to the race.

So we've talked about 2 flights.  Aren't there usually 3 flights out of the starting gate?

graytex, you look phophetic. Take a look back at my note from earlier this morning, which I just finished altering to talk about AA flight possibilities connecting in Miami and DFW and Lima.

[apskip]

I have constructed a table of major South American cities from which nonstop flights to major European cities originate. It has Sao Paulo(the largest origination point), Buenos Aires, and Rio de Janeiro. The destinations are Madrid, Lisbon, London, Paris and Frankfurt. If a city pair does not have a nonstop flight, then it is listed as NONE below:

GRU MAD IB6824 1610 0705+1  JJ8064 2030 1125+1  RG8714 2235 1355+1

GRU LIS  TP188 1705 0645+1  TP194  2330 1325+1

GRU LHR BA246 1620 0730+1  JJ8084 2345 1535+1

GRU CDG AF455 1630 0835+1  AF459 1920 1150+1  RG8730 2300 1520+1

GRU FRA LH507 1820 1035+1  JJ8070 2140 1430+1

EZE MAD LH510 1200 0510+1   

EZE LIS  none

EZE LHR none

EZE CDG AF415 1705 1100+1

EZE FRA LH511 2055 1500+1

GIG MAD IB6026 1910 0950+1  UX046 2205 1300+1

GIG LIS TP178  1715 0645+1

GIG LHR  none

GIG CDG AF443 1620 0753+1  JJ8051 2340 1550+1

GIG FRA  none