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Archive => RFF Archived Boards => The Amazing Race 19 Spoilers and Speculation => Topic started by: apskip on June 19, 2011, 09:59:47 PM
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This thread will be a place where transportation information (both actual and predicted) can go.
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Requoting from you guys over on the other threads!
19 JUN 2011
CI 7 (0057-0500, scheduled 0055-0550) from Los Angeles to Taipei
BR 1 (0132-0534, scheduled 0115-0600) from Los Angeles to Taipei
BR 15 (0144-0548, scheduled 0135-0620) from Los Angeles to Taipei
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I wonder if teams were forced to take the same bus company into downtown, or if the team that went via Zhongxiao Fuxing did it for their own reason?
According to this website (http://xong307.myweb.hinet.net/cks.htm), there are three bus lines running to Zhongxiao Fuxing: Changrong, Dayou and Feigou. Dayou and Feigou (represented in pink) run directly to Zhongxiao Fuxing, but Changrong (represented in orange) makes a stop at Minquan W Rd Station first, which saves teams that get off there about 10min, even taking into consideration the time needed to change metro lines.
However, Guoguang (represented in cyan), leaving every 15min, runs directly to Taipei Main (Train) Station, which is just one stop away from Ximen. I suppose that would be the quickest way to get from the airport to Ximending by public transport?
So back to the main question: why did the team take the bus to Zhongxiao Fuxing? Because of producer instruction, limited information, or for some other reason?
(The map is drawn by me and by no means official.)
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However, Guoguang (represented in cyan), leaving every 15min, runs directly to Taipei Main (Train) Station, which is just one stop away from Ximen. I suppose that would be the quickest way to get from the airport to Ximending by public transport?
I don't know if there's any tasks which teams have to complete near ZhongXiao Fuxing, but I can tell you that you're right that taking the bus is the quickest way to get to Ximending from the Airport. The buses are fast, efficient and cost savings too. However which buses is it will depend on the timings teams arrive in Taipei, I remembered when I was there the GuoGuang bus was delayed/no schedule/or whatsoever reason so I got on to the Dayou bus instead.
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To the primary 3 flights listed by Neobie above needs to be added this one just slightly later:
MH95 LAX TPE nonstop departed 0111 (scheduled 0045) and arrived 0552+1 (scheduled 0615+1)
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Wow, Pit Start already? They're moving along really fast this time!
Apskip already has some flights below...
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Leg 2 flights - if Taipei to Jakarta there are 3 excellent nonstop flights available if there was some amount of extended pit stop (which I consider likely):
CI5855 0805 1205
CI761 (code-share GA9981) 0845 1300
BR237 0900 1310
Note: this has been modified to add CI5855 as a result of Prophet's comment below.
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There are two basic rail routes across Java : A North Coastal Route running Jakarta-Cirebon-Semarang-Surabaya; and A Southerly Route Jakarta-Bandung-Yogyakarta-Solo-Surabaya. Yogyakarta is on the Southerly Route.
TRAIN SCHEDULE
KA Argo Lawu Jakarta–Solo 03.10
KA Argo Dwipangga Jakarta–Solo 15.10
KA Taksaka Malam Jakarta–Yogyakarta 04.42
KA Taksaka Pagi Jakarta–Yogyakarta 16.21
KA Senja Utama Jakarta–Yogyakarta 04.46
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Leg 2 flights - if Taipei to Jakarta there are 2 excellent nonstop flights available if there was some amount of extended pit stop (which I consider likely):
CI761 (code-share GA9981) 0845 1300
BR237 0900 1310
Don't forget CI 5855. That would be their quickest choice.
And going to HKG and getting on GA873 or CX777 is almost as good as the other options.
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apskip, there's a KA Bima that departs from Jakarta at 5 pm & arrives at Yogya close to 1 am.
This is the earliest arrival in Yogya.
For train departure list departing from Jakarta to Yogya, here's a good website http://gudeg.net/en/train_search_result.html
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Thanks very much, Krabbe. That train finder link was very useful. Although I had found the official schedules for Java, it was laid out like Indian Rail schedules. If a city is an intermediate stop and not the origin or final stop, you may not find its timing.
Here is the information from Krabbe's link above:
Train Name From To Time*
WIT
KA Argo Lawu Jakarta Solo 03.42
KA Argo Dwipangga Jakarta Solo 15.15
KA Taksaka Pagi Jakarta Yogyakarta 16.28
KA Taksaka Malam Jakarta Yogyakarta 04.30
KA Jayabaya Selatan Jakarta Surabaya 23.16
KA Gajayana Jakarta Malang 01.30
KA Bima Jakarta Surabaya 00.47
KA Senja Utama Solo Jakarta Solo 05.17
KA Senja Utama Yogya Jakarta Yogyakarta 04.46
KA Fajar Utama Yogya Jakarta Yogyakarta 14.00
KA Gaya Baru Malam Jakarta Surabaya 21.44
KA Progo Jakarta Yogyakarta 06.20
KA Bengawan Jakarta Solo 05.30
Here is the information that shows departures but not for trains where Yogyakarta is an intermediate stop:
train 40 dep. Jakarta Gambir 0845 arr. Yogyakarta 1625
train 42 dep. Jakarta Gambir 2045 arr. Yogyakarta 0930
Considering Solo is a connecting point, the departures from Jakarta are so close to those just above that it is pointless to do that.
Considering Bandung as a connecting point it also does not appear to work.
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No worries, apskip.
Actually the time shown on that list is the arrival time in Yogya (if you click on the train name, it will show you a more detailed schedule...e.g departs Jakarta at x hour, arrives in Yogya at x hour, departs Yogya at x hour, arrives at final stop at x hour, etc)
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To the primary 3 flights listed by Neobie above needs to be added this one just slightly later:
MH95 LAX TPE nonstop departed 0111 (scheduled 0045) and arrived 0552+1 (scheduled 0615+1)
I don't believe they used MH95. ;)
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What are the most likely Train stations in Jakarta for these schedules please?
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What are the most likely Train stations in Jakarta for these schedules please?
That's an easy one thanks to prior in the day research. It is Gambir station from which trains to Yogyakarta leave. Trains leaving the Kota station follow the northern route and don't come near Yogyakarta.
Note: here is some additional information derived from a post by Prama below -
Peach, Pasarsenen is a third station in Jakarta and some trains for Yogyakarta leave from there.
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Here are some possibilities for teams to get a train from Jakarta to Jogjakarta
Teams may take the train either form Gambir or Statsiun Jakarta Kota
(http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg804/scaled.php?server=804&filename=kai1copy.jpg&res=medium)
(http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg706/scaled.php?server=706&filename=kai1b.jpg&res=medium)
I think they will take a night train....
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If it helps, supposing that they get on the best flights they will arrive in Jakarta around noon to 14.00 local time.
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If it helps, supposing that they get on the best flights they will arrive in Jakarta around noon to 14.00 local time.
Yeah, and they will wait until around 7-8pm for the night train...and they will arrive around 2am - 4am in Jogja :tup:
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So probably not any tasks or activity until the 22nd (Jakarta time). Maybe by around 19.00 EDT tomorrow there will be something else.
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Prama, thanks for the hint at what Pasarsenen is, a third Jakarta station after Kota and Gambir. It looks like a close call between using the 1930 departure from Pasarsenen arriving Yogyakarta 0402 and the 2015 departure from Gambir arriving 0444.
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Which of those stations is easiest to get to from the airport??
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So probably not any tasks or activity until the 22nd (Jakarta time). Maybe by around 19.00 EDT tomorrow there will be something else.
Again, you can not say that. There is a big time window there, there could well be a route info task to get the train info.
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Train station maps here:
http://forum.realityfanforum.com/index.php/topic,25626.msg620180.html#msg620180
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Which of those stations is easiest to get to from the airport??
That would be Kota station
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Consolidating the above posts and double-checking everything...
The postings by our Taiwanese friends give us a rough estimate of departure times:
9.49am: Three teams just checked in on the mat.
11.26pm: After 12h at the Pit Stop, the teams arrive on a bus from their accomodation and prepare to leave.
Teams would have missed this flight to Jakarta:
20 JUN 2011
KA 483 (2055-2235) from Taipei to Hong Kong
RI 841 (2335-0400) from Hong Kong to Jakarta
But have a chance of making this one:
21 JUN 2011
CI 5871 (0005-0420) from Taipei to Singapore
GA 823 (0725-0810) from Singapore to Jakarta
The next best flights are the directs we have:
CI 5855 (0805-1205) from Taipei to Jakarta
CI 761 (0845-1300) from Taipei to Jakarta
BR 237 (0900-1310) from Taipei to Jakarta
The Indonesia rail website (can read enough Bahasa to make it through the system) shows departures from Gambir and Jatinegara Stations in Jakarta, but produces an error for the Kota and Pasar Senen Stations. Blue are the trains confirmed by the official website, red are additional ones from the website suggested by Krabbe, and purple is an additional one provided by Prama:
21 JUN 2011
Gaya Baru Malam (1150-2144) from Jakarta to Yogyakarta
Jayabaya Selatan (1400-2316) from Jakarta to Yogyakarta
Bima 10034 (1700-0042) from Jakarta Gambir to Yogyakarta
Gajayana (1715-0130) from Jakarta to Yogyakarta
Argo Lawu 40008 (2000-0338) from Jakarta Gambir to Yogyakarta
Taksaka Malam 10042 (2045-0430) from Jakarta Gambir to Yogyakarta
Progo (2115-0620) from Jakarta to Yogyakarta
Slower trains:
Senja Utama Yogya (1930-0402) from Jakarta Pasar Senen to Yogyakarta
Senja Utm Yk 10110 (1942-0410) from Jakarta Jatinegara to Yogyakarta
Senja Utm Solo 40106 (2027-0512) from Jakarta Jatinegara to Yogyakarta
Bengawan (2040-0530) from Jakarta to Yogyakarta
That's a pretty wide spread of possible arrival times, but since the earliest possible train arrives at almost ten in the evening, I'd agree with Prophet and it looks certain that everyone will be held up by an Hours of Operation when they get to Yogyakarta.
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The Indonesia rail website (can read enough Bahasa to make it through the system) shows departures from Gambir and Jatinegara Stations in Jakarta, but produces an error for the Kota and Pasar Senen Stations. Blue are the trains confirmed by the official website, red are additional ones from the website suggested by Krabbe:
21 JUN 2011
Gaya Baru Malam (1150-2144) from Jakarta to Yogyakarta
Jayabaya Selatan (1400-2316) from Jakarta to Yogyakarta
Bima 10034 (1700-0042) from Jakarta Gambir to Yogyakarta
Gajayana (1715-0130) from Jakarta to Yogyakarta
Argo Lawu 40008 (2000-0338) from Jakarta Gambir to Yogyakarta
Taksaka Malam 10042 (2045-0430) from Jakarta Gambir to Yogyakarta
Progo (2115-0620) from Jakarta to Yogyakarta
That's a pretty wide spread of possible arrival times, but since the earliest possible train arrives at almost ten in the evening, I'd agree with Prophet and it looks certain that everyone will be held up by an Hours of Operation when they get to Yogyakarta.
Update/correction: from our friends in Jakarta, looks like these are our two trains:
21 JUN 2011
Gajayana (1715-0130) from Jakarta to Yogyakarta
Argo Lawu 40008 (2000-0338) from Jakarta Gambir to Yogyakarta
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It should be interesting to see what travel plans they take to get out of Indonesia. Flights out of JOG appear to be really limited. The only international destinations I can find are Malaysia and Singapore. Otherwise they will have to connect through Jakarta or Bali.
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There are some great beaches on Malaysia.
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Since Johannesburg has been identified as a possible next leg after Borobdur and I have great faith in hints from Chateau d'If, I have looked at the flights from Yogyakarta to Johannesburg. There are many possibilities which take longer and get in with this one, but the basic flight combination is:
GA215 JOG CGK 1755 1900
GA834 CGK SIN 2000 2210
SQ478 SIN JNB 0200+1 0700+1
However, there is another more circuitous route requiring backtracking to the western edge of Australia which would be useful only if teams are released early enough to catch it:
GA250 JOG DPS 0800 1015
GA726 DPS PER 1220 1500
QF303 PER JNB 2350 0520+1
This combination requires leaving as late as 10 hours after the one above it and is scheduled to arrive 100 minutes earlier.
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:lol:
It was mainly because of these two flights that I thought of it!
Malaysia Airlines – Flight 203 10h 40m
Take-off Sat 1:20a KUL Sepang, Malaysia
Landing Sat 6:00a JNB Johannesburg, South Africa
Singapore Air – Flight 478 10h 50m
Take-off Sat 2:10a SIN Singapore, Singapore
Landing Sat 7:00a JNB Johannesburg, South Africa
I don't see your Perth flight happening on Friday the 24th :duno:
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I asked my flight information system for June 25, on which that flight is valid. I guess that means I am betting on an extended to 36 hour pit stop, which would be due about now.
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No. almost certainly 12 hours, leaving 6/24 AM JOG time.
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If the release time is 6/24 (it's been that for 10 hours already in Yogyakarta), then the main flight combination would be my ones through Jakarta and Singapore, which has many antecedents between Yogyakarta and Jakarta and between Jakarta and Singapore. However, Chateau has a valid point. There are 21 flights teams could use to go Yogyakarta and Jakarta between 5am and 6pm. There are also 17 flights possible between Jakarta and Kuala Lumpur. At Kuala Lumpur, Chateau's flight MH203 0120+1 0600+1 would apply. It also gets in one hour earlier and poses little risk to teams of not making connections to get there ass long as they leave Yogyakarta by 6pm.
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Be careful, I think your conversion is off by an hour. :wise
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The routing to Bangkok at this time tends to rule out JoBurg as destination (because it would be better to go to KUL or SIN from CGK). :(
A new possibility rises up: :yess:
GA 866 Flight Information
Route: From (CGK) Jakarta, ID to (BKK) Bangkok, TH
Duration: 3h 25m
Departure Status Details
Airport: (CGK) Soekarno-Hatta International Airport
City: Jakarta, ID
Scheduled: 9:45 AM - Fri 24-Jun-2011
Arrival Status Details
Airport: (BKK) Suvarnabhumi Airport
City: Bangkok, TH
Scheduled: 1:10 PM - Fri 24-Jun-2011
RA 402 Flight Information
Route: From (BKK) Bangkok, TH to (KTM) Kathmandu, NP
Duration: 3h 15m
Departure Status Details
Airport: (BKK) Suvarnabhumi Airport
City: Bangkok, TH
Scheduled: 2:30 PM - Fri 24-Jun-2011
Arrival Status Details
Airport: (KTM) Tribhuvan Airport
City: Kathmandu, NP
Scheduled: 4:30 PM - Fri 24-Jun-2011
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Okay...since it appears that the Phuket flight info may be correct...what are our options for getting them out of there, presumably on the 25th??
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Okay...since it appears that the Phuket flight info may be correct...what are our options for getting them out of there, presumably on the 25th??
Mostly internal flights to Bangkok, international flights to Singapore and Kuala Lumpur. (there are a lot of those).
There are a few flights to China and Australia but since i suppose we look for westward flights the only other option would be a flight to Moscow. (unlikely)
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They can get anywhere from Bangkok or Singapore...
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Good job to Zacz for the Malawi find!
LEG 4
It seems to have become a production rule for TPTB to direct teams through the same entry port in each country to smoothen out customs. Since we know that teams flew through Bangkok, for now I'm ruling out flights from Singapore and Malaysia to Phuket.
Here's one set of flights teams were reported on on 24 Jun:
QZ 7341 from Yogyakarta to Jakarta, 1245-1345
QZ 7716 from Jakarta to Bangkok, 1635-2000
(FD 3035 from Bangkok to Phuket, 2120-2240, postulated)
Other teams were seen on an earlier Bangkok-Phuket flight, which suggests:
(GA 205 from Yogyakarta to Jakarta, 0940-1045, or earlier)
TG 434 from Jakarta to Bangkok, 1235-1605, or
GA 868 from Jakarta to Bangkok, 1250-1615
FD 3031 from Bangkok to Phuket, 1900-2020
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LEG 5
If Kenya works out, I've a feeling the producers will be aiming for this direct flight from Thailand to Kenya, both for Phil (on the morning of the 26th) and the teams (morning of 27th):
KQ 861 from Bangkok to Nairobi, 0035-0605
This means that departures from Phuket will be the night before, the afternoon/evening of the 25th for Phil, and afternoon/evening of the 26th for the teams.
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LEG 6
From Kenya to Malawi tomorrow (29 Jun), I think production may be aiming for this direct flight for the teams:
KQ 722 from Nairobi to Lilongwe, 0825-0935
And this flight today (28 Jun) for Phil:
KQ 724 from Nairobi to Lusaka, 0825-1005
KQ 724 from Lusaka to Lilongwe, 1105-1215
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Since it is not likely that there will be sightings in Malawi tomorrow I thought it would be useful to put some guesses at where they will head next based on transport options.
Assuming that the pitstart would be early morning on the 30th they would have to wait all the way until 13.15 to depart back to Nairobi, one of the few places LLW flies to.
Otherwise they can hop over to BLZ where they can arrive at 7.50 AM and make QM 201 to JNB arriving at 11.10.
If Europe is the next destination after two Africa legs then Joburg is not the way to go since it does not fly to Europe without a really long wait. So the only point in going there would be to run a leg in that region.
To get to Europe, Nairobi is the better choice as it has connections to Paris, London and Amsterdam that day.
If they are remaining in Africa for a third leg there are many options to other African countries from NBO.
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It seems to have become a production rule for TPTB to direct teams through the same entry port in each country to smoothen out customs.
I think this has something to do with the carnets that are used for the camera equipment etc. When you enter a country with a carnet you leave the voucher part with the local customs officials. When you leave the country, the voucher is checked against the equipment. So if you don't leave the country by the same port of entry - the vouchers aren't available.
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Thanks for the explanation WP!
Would it be possible that they use the Malawi tour company to head to Zambia for a short leg, and then use charter flights a la TAR 1 to get to Johannesburg?
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Neobie...are you spec'ing an extended pitstop in Kenya? If so, why? I was thinking that any extended pitstop might be Phuket, primarily to let Phil jump ahead...
Plus might explain the lack of sightings if they are "paused" somewhere...
And I think that IF we are right and we do see a Kenya leg...that we could well see a charter flight to somewhere then. Pull a number...
I would hope that they would want us to see more of Kenya than Nairobi, and with a charter flight, they could get us to any of the more impressive areas and/or game parks.
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Nope, not speculating any (unusually) extended legs in Kenya or Phuket!
Diverging a little into timelines, but I'm guessing:
25 Jun: Teams race in Phuket, check in around midday, Phil flies out of Phuket
26 Jun: Phil flies to Kenya arriving 6.05am for stand-up filming, teams fly out of Phuket in afternoon/evening
27 Jun: Teams fly to Kenya arriving 6.05am, check in time depending on how far from Nairobi they go, no good flights for Phil
28 Jun: Phil flies to Malawi leaving 8.25am and arriving 12.35pm for stand-up filming
29 Jun: Teams fly to Malawi leaving 8.25am and arriving 9.35am
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Nope, not speculating any (unusually) extended legs in Kenya or Phuket!
Diverging a little into timelines, but it's looking like this:
25 Jun: Teams race in Phuket, check in around midday, Phil flies to Bangkok evening
26 Jun: Phil flies to Kenya morning for a day of filming, teams leave afternoon/evening for Bangkok
27 Jun: Teams fly to Kenya for leg, check in around afternoon, Phil gets ready to leave from Nairobi
28 Jun: Phil flies to Malawi morning for day of filming
29 Jun: Teams fly to Malawi morning for leg
If they do 12 hours Pitstop in Phuket, they could be released by 1 AM or so on 6/26 and catch the earliest flights out... ~0600
If they are not released until afternoon 6/26 that supposes a 24 Pitstop, right? ???
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Nope, not speculating any (unusually) extended legs in Kenya or Phuket!
Diverging a little into timelines, but I'm guessing:
25 Jun: Teams race in Phuket, check in around midday, Phil flies out of Phuket
26 Jun: Phil flies to Kenya arriving 6.05am for stand-up filming, teams fly out of Phuket in afternoon/evening
27 Jun: Teams fly to Kenya arriving 6.05am, check in time depending on how far from Nairobi they go, no good flights for Phil
28 Jun: Phil flies to Malawi leaving 8.25am and arriving 12.35pm for stand-up filming
29 Jun: Teams fly to Malawi leaving 8.25am and arriving 9.35am
But having the teams check in on the 27th in Kenya and then having them fly to Malawi on the morning of the 29th is a 36 hour pit stop :duno:
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There may actually have been time for a second Kenya leg and Malawi is the third and final leg in Africa.
Just SPEC but there is plenty to see in Kenya.
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The new Pit Stop schedules usually go by calendar days and not by hours, so it doesn't look too unusual for a check in on the 27th and a Pit Start on the 29th - perhaps afternoon/evening 28th? There're no good flights to Malawi so teams would be stuck too. In fact as long as they get to Nairobi airport later than 8.25am on the 28th they can't find a better flight than the direct on the 29th. Phil needs the 28th to do his stand-ups.
Regarding Phuket: If teams are released from Phuket in the early hours of 26th, they might be able to make this flight which would put them into Kenya a little too early. An Hours of Operation or a Pick a Ticket would fix things up, but the racing action will definitely have to take place on the 27th and not the 26th:
FD 3022 from Phuket to Bangkok, 0655-0815
EK 375 from Bangkok to Dubai, 0955-1300
EK 721 from Dubai to Nairobi, 1505-1905
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Regarding leaving Malawi, the reason why Jo'berg might be used for the teams (even as charters as was done a couple of times in the early seasons) would be to give Phil time to get ahead of the teams; so sending the teams to Jo'burg might accomplish that.
Unless the Race stays in Africa even longer than a Malawi leg, and maybe one in Zambia or South Africa, then they'll likely be looking for Europe; South America is a possibility as I don't believe they've ever had teams go to South America from Africa in the past, but it would almost require provided airline tickets to do it since my recollection is that in the past, flights across the southern Atlantic are not that plentiful. On the other hand, its now winter in the southern hemisphere, and the remainder of the route seems to be all warm weather locations.
Just some considerations to think about in trying to outthink TPTB. :)
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In fact as long as they get to Nairobi airport later than 8.25am on the 28th they can't find a better flight than the direct on the 29th.
I'd have to move that up to 9:10 am, but I see your point: a team gains no advantage in getting released between 8 am on the 28th to 4 am on the 29th. So there's a 20-hour range of optional fuzz to add to the Pit Stop
NBO to JNB Johannesburg KQ 762 Kenya Airways 9:10 AM arrives 12:20 PM - Tue 28-Jun-2011
JNB to BLZ Blantyre QM 204 Air Malawi 7:00 PM arrives 9:10 PM - Tue 28-Jun-2011
BLZ to LLW Lilongwe QM 201 Air Malawi 8:00 AM arrives 8:35 AM - Wed 29-Jun-2011
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Let's check trains too.... :lol:
Or if we want to be cruel...buses.
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Adding: Not looking good!
http://goafrica.about.com/od/tanzania/a/tanzaniatips_2.htm
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Adding: Not looking good!
http://goafrica.about.com/od/tanzania/a/tanzaniatips_2.htm
:lol: 27 hours! yikes
That's 27 hours from Dar es Salaam. It's another 5 from Nairobi to DES.
Though if Phil wants to get ahead of the teams to film standups... :snicker:
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The train would be evil... Saying that I would love to see it, I have always liked the long train trips and they don't do them as often as they used to in early TAR - Think without them we never would have had Flo's tantrum.
I do think it is unlikely though as the safety of the teams has to be taken into account.
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We have had some long train rides in recent seasons; it is just that the editors haven't focused on those at all. (train in China last season as an example.
The reason for the relative lack of long distance trains is usually a question of the amount of time needed to use them. Last season was probably so that Phil could get ahead of the teams by enough times to get the stand ups done, as the leg that came after the two China legs was in India.
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We have had some long train rides in recent seasons; it is just that the editors haven't focused on those at all. (train in China last season as an example.
The reason for the relative lack of long distance trains is usually a question of the amount of time needed to use them. Last season was probably so that Phil could get ahead of the teams by enough times to get the stand ups done, as the leg that came after the two China legs was in India.
It's ironic, because I think the direction of travel might end up being the opposite direction, from Johannesburg to either Lilongwe or to Blantyre, the two largest cities in Malawi. There is no requirement I have heard of to go to Lilongwe to be in Malawi. There are several flights which fly to either LLW or BLZ from JNB:
Today 28 June QM202 JNB LLW 1630 1850 or QM204 JNB BLZ 1900 2110 or SA170 1010 1220
Tomorrow 29 June QM202 JNB LLW 1225 1545 or SA6732 JNB BLZ 0500 0720 or SA172 JNB BLZ 1000 1250
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Every previous leg in Jo-burg since spoiling began, for any of the franchises, has been spotted I believe, which makes me think they did not go there (yet?).
The safari company is based in Lilongwe, that's why (along with the flights) we have assumed they are starting there, although of course they could start elsewhere I suppose? :duno:
LAND AND LAKE SAFARIS have been operating in Malawi since 1985. The office is conveniently situated in LILONGWE, OLD TOWN
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb140/ga--peach/TAR%2019/Malawi/974141de.jpg)
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Teams arrived in Lilongwe Jun 30 around noon. That leg was probably completed by 7-9PM yesterday. With a 12hr pitstop really the only option for flying out on July 1 is back to J-burg on SA 171 arriving at 15.40. From there teams could fly to London or Frankfurt pretty easily.
If they delay the Pitstart to the 2nd teams could take KQ 731 to arrive in Nairobi at 15.10. But Nairobi does not have many options to Europe that afternoon and evening.
It should be interesting to see what transport options they take to get off the continent because I don't see tons of options.
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It's ironic, because I think the direction of travel might end up being the opposite direction, from Johannesburg to either Lilongwe or to Blantyre, the two largest cities in Malawi.
You had it right apskip!! :tup:
Confirmed 6/30 :yes:
JNB Johannesburg SA 170 South African Airways Dep 1000 arr sched 12:25 PM arr 12:07 PM
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apskip et al...
Can we relook at getting them to Joburg please?
Phuket.. onwards
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Peach,
Your first request is more well-defined and easier to answer. Here are the flights from Lilongwe to Johannesburg for yesterday 30 June:
QM201 LLW JNB 0905 1125
SA171 LLW JNB 1340 1550
KQ724 LLW NBO 1315 1625 connecting to KQ764 NBO JNB 2040 2350
For today 1 July, here are the flights:
a Kenya Airways 0230 combination through NBO not arriving until 1705 which no team would want
QM201 LLW JNB 0905 1125
SA171 LLW JNB 1328 1542
KQ722 LLW LUN 1035 1145 connecting to KQ63 LUN JNB 1340 1545
Since you added a new request for flights to Nairobi while I was doing the above, here they are:
For today 1 July here are the only two options for LLW NBO:
KQ734 LLW NBO 0230 0540
KQ722 LLW NBO 1035 1625 (note- this flight stops in Lusaka first)
For tomorrow 2 July KQ731 LLW NBO 1200 1510
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The flight possibilities for Phuket to Johannesburg are really much simpler than I expected. Kuala Lumpur drops out of the equation due to not flying nonstop several applicable days of the week. Connecting in Bangkok requires departure from HKT on 28 June Tuesday night's last flight HKT BKK BR3926 2230 2355 connecting with nonstop TG703 BKK JNB early Wednesday 29 June 0115+1 0730+1, but this does not work for early Thursday morning There is also a connection through Nairobi BKK NBO KQ887 0035+1 to KQ260 NBO JNB 0700+1 1005+1 doesn't work for that date because it is after the departure of SA170 at 1000 to Lilongwe. So, either of the possibilities from Bangkok require leaving almost a full day in the Johannesburg area open, where they might have been used for a South Africa leg (WRP, how about a safari aadventure?).
The better alternative is 29 June Tuesday night MI757 HKT SIN 2010 2255 or 3K538 2205 0050+1 connecting with nonstop SQ478 SIN JNB 0210+1 0700+1. That connects easily with SA170 on Thursday morning.
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Here's my stab at Phuket to Johannesburg:
- We assume they complete the Phuket leg at 1:00 pm on Saturday the 25th.
- We assume that they are standing in JNB airport at 9:00 am on Thursday the 30th.
Naturally they will want to go to the mountains of Nepal after the Beaches of Phuket. Right? Make sense to me! :lol:
Here is a quick way to get to Kathmandu, Nepal on Sunday the 26th: (takes 6 hours and 15 min)
TG 226 leaves HKT at 7:25 am and arrives BKK at 8:50 am
TG 319 leaves BKK at 10:15 am and arrives KTM at 12:25 pm
Teams spend the next 72 hours racing and resting and racing and waiting (one leg) and are standing at Kathmandu airport at 12:25 pm on Wednesday the 29th.
Here is a quick way to get to Johannesburg by 9:00 am on Thursday the 30th: (takes 20 hours and 15 min)
TG 320 leaves KTM at 1:30 pm and arrives BKK at 6:15 pm
MH 781 leaves BKK at 7:40 pm and arrives KUL at 10:50 pm
MH 203 leaves KUL at 1:20 am and arrives JNB at 6:00 am on the 30th
You can substitute SIN for KUL in getting to JNB and still make this happen.
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We no longer need a Lilongwe to Joburg option since we know they just came from there.
We do need the Phuket to Joburg options, both with and without an intermediate stop in Nairobi (spec), or somewhere else, or even Katmandu! (total spec)
Looking ahead, we need to look at options leaving Lilongwe, since Joburg is now out of the equation, that pretty much leaves connecting via Nairobi. I would suggest looking at 7/3....
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Peach, there's nothing saying that there might be a Jo'Berg connection to use to get out of Africa altogether. It wouldn't be the first time teams have had to go back through a city they just left to get somewhere on another continent, so we'd have to see what windows and areas might open up as a result.
I seriously doubt they'll be headed to North Africa, or Greece, so it points to anywhere else in Europe or South America, on paper; but I'd be worried about the Chilean volcano acting up again. I do suspect that the teams will be feed producer supplied air tickets just to make sure they can get out of Africa without 24 hour delays.
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okay good point!
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II second theschnauzers motion! I think Johannesburg is as good a way as any to get out of southern Africa. Nairobi is another one that makes sense. There are loads of flights from either one nonstop to major European cities.
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From Amsterdam teams could literally connect to anywhere in Europe, unless they are going to stay in Amsterdam.
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How did teams get from Lilongwe to Nairobi to connect with KQ116 to Amsterdam there?
There are two decent possibilities direct and some really awful connections. Here are the direct flights LLW NBO:
KQ731 July 2 1200 1510
KQ732 July 2 LLW NBO 2355 0545+1
The latter is much more likely.
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My chart shows that 732 goes to Lusaka.... I was just struggling with this as well.
KQ 732 Flight Information Route: From (LLW) Lilongwe, MW to (LUN) Lusaka, ZM
How did teams get from Lilongwe to Nairobi to connect with KQ116 to Amsterdam there?
There are two decent possibilities direct and some really awful connections. Here are the direct flights LLW NBO:
KQ731 July 2 1200 1520
KQ732 July 2 LLW NBO 2355 0545+1
The latter is much more likely.
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Peach,
Why does a flight that takes only 3 hours 10 minutes from Lilongwe nonstop to Nairobi take 5 hours 50 minutes direct? The answer is that KQ732 continues from Lusaka to Nairobi.
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My chart shows that 732 goes to Lusaka.... I was just struggling with this as well.
KQ 732 Flight Information Route: From (LLW) Lilongwe, MW to (LUN) Lusaka, ZM
How did teams get from Lilongwe to Nairobi to connect with KQ116 to Amsterdam there?
There are two decent possibilities direct and some really awful connections. Here are the direct flights LLW NBO:
KQ731 July 2 1200 1520
KQ732 July 2 LLW NBO 2355 0545+1
The latter is much more likely.
KQ 732 is certainly an "odd" flight. I checked a week after the July2/3 time frame and a week before.......and the flight does not appear. I suspect it is a WRP "charter" or maybe a "semi-charter" flight. The aircraft is an Embraer 190 which is equivilent to a Boeing 737 in capacity. After further research, it is just a regular weekend intinerary for Kenya Airlines.
I found for KQ 732.......
July 2, 2011
NBO to LLW 9:45 pm to 10:55 pm
LLW to LUN 11:55 pm (July 2) to 1:05 am (July3)
July 3, 2011
LUN to NBO 2:05 am to 5:45 am.....
It appears to be a circle route out of Nairobi.....I could see WRP negociating with an E African airline for a "special" flight after the mess in TAR11. Also they could move teams that way, without having to spend time waiting in airports to make connections back to Europe.
The 0545 arrival time will give them 2 hr 20 minutes to make the KQ116, 0810 flight to Amsterdam from Nairobi.
edited to add additional information....
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That would be consistent with my suggestion that teams would be given tickets for their flight to get out of Africa.
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And here along I was thinking that our Tweeter was on the KLM flight KL 566 that arrived at 5:40 am :lol:
The reasoning being that his flight from Amsterdam to Nairobi 12 days before was on KLM flight KL 565 based on his tweet made June 20th:
I'm in Amsterdam, Leaving for Kenya in 8. Must sleep.
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Chateau has presented his educated guesses about where in extended Europe AR19 will depart from:
Madrid
Dubai
Tel Aviv
Odessa
Istanbul
Kuwait
Amman
Damascus
Riyadh
Doha
Beirut
Jeddah
Muscat
Baku
I have different educated guesses, which I base on an analysis of East Coast (plus Atlanta) airports. I did an exhaustive but not absolutely comprehensive search of all flights (except a few where I could not read my handwriting) from extended Europe nonstop to Boston, New York JFK, Newark, Philadelphia, Washington IAD, Charlotte, Atlanta, Orlando and Miami airports since it was only on all flights today. Here is that analysis:
Boston - Munich, CDG, Munich, Frankfurt, LHR, Amsterdam, Zurich
JFK - AMS, Tel Aviv, Luxembourg, FRA, CDG, Liege(?), LHR, Helsinki, Madrid, Moscow, Brussels, Keflavik, ZRH, Dublin, Valencia, Milan, Nice, Vienna, Madrid, Manchester, Stockholm, Munich, Geneva, Athens, Budapest, Rome, Amman, Istanbul, Venice, Copenhagen, Pisa, Shannon, Barcelona
EWR - LHR, Keflavik, FRA, TLV, Copenhagen, Shannon, Dublin, Glasgow, AMS, Cologne, Berlin, Stockholm, Edinburgh, Brussels, Geneva, Manchester, CDG, Paris-Orly, Munich, Stuttgart, Milan, Barcelona, Madrid, Lisbon, Athens, Warsaw
PHL - LHR, TLV, Lisbon, Manchester, Dublin, Glasgow, Frankfurt, CDG, ZRH, Venice, Munich, Rome, Athens
IAD - LHR, MAD, Vienna, Brussels, Vienna, AMS, CDG, Rome, ZRH, Manchester, CDG
CLT - Dublin, MAD, CDG, FRA, Munich
ATL - Athens, Leipzig (?), AMS, Dusseldorf, FRA, Barcelona, MAD, Munich Stuttgart, Milan, Moscow, Dublin, Rome, Venice, CDG, LHR
MCO - AMS, Dublin, Edinburgh, FRA, Glasgow, London-Gatwick, MAD, Manchester, CDG
MIA - Budapest, MAD, Venice, Milan
So, what does all this mean, as it could be any one of the above 37 extended European departure points (or it could be a connecting-in-the-US flight which would destroy my logic)? I happen to like the places where past Amazing Race seasons have bypassed. The most prominent of those are Munich, Dusseldorf, Brussels, Madrid or Copenhagen, since I exclude Glasgow, Edinburgh and Manchester for being off the continent proper, Valencia for having only 1 flight and Leipzig and Liege for having 1 weird flight each. I think it could be any of the most prominent 5. We'll see.
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How could you have missed TLV to ATL ? :snicker:
And Leipzig to ATL is a World Airways charter. :res:
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How could you have missed TLV to ATL ? :snicker:
And Leipzig to ATL is a World Airways charter. :res:
Chateau,
You must have missed the disclaimer that my analysis was not absolutely comprehensive due to taking just one day of the week and because I lost a few by not being able to read my own notes. I did know that Leipzig was a World Airways 4-digit flight number from Leipzig and I did put a question mark after it. I also put a question mark after Liege, which with other international service from Brussels nearby should not be likely to have nonstops to the U.S. East Coast but did have one to Atlanta.
You may also see that I dismissed as improbable any flights from Dubai, Kuwait, Damascus, Riyadh, Doha, Beirut, Jeddah, Muscat or Beirut from your list. I believe all of those are too far away for a traditional nonstop finale flight to the U.S. East Coast (even though some of those do have nonstop flights in the the target destinations) to be worth thinking about. However, you presented your speculation and I have countered with mine, but if you allow connecting flights in your thinking (you do and I don't), then all of your origins are possible.
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We can safely rule out the following cities...
Amman
Damascus
Riyadh
Doha
Beirut
Jeddah
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The timing of the recent tweets from Atlanta suggest that Teams have arrived on flight DL 37 that left CDG at 9:20 AM - Sun 10-Jul-2011 and arrived at ATL at 1:06 PM - Sun 10-Jul-2011 (scheduled for 1:30 pm)
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Here are all the flights that have arrived in Atlanta today (starting with Chateau's favorite from Tel Aviv):
TLV DL153 522a
AMS DL135 1219p
FRA DL15 149p
SNN OAE428 1037a
CDG DL37 106p, AF682 217p
Leipzig that world Airways charter 8505 again, 742a
LGW DL17 134p
MAD DL109 135p
ZRH DL67 224p
MUC DL131 225p
CPH DL69 304p
plus flights over the Atlantic or soon to arrive ATL from Stuttgart, Rome, Dusseldorf (6 hours late), Milan, and London-Heathrow.
My opinion is that the AMS origin and the CDG origin are the most consistent with that tweet, since the tweeter did not identify whether he/she was at a gate or after U.S.Customs. If World Race Productions wanted to be really sneaky and had the F3 teams depart from Tel Aviv, a 522a arrival could have been difficult to spot.
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Here are all the flights that have arrived in Atlanta today (starting with Chateau's favorite from Tel Aviv):
TLV DL153 522a
AMS DL135 1219p
FRA DL15 945a, LH444 1159a
SNN OAE428 1037a
CDG DL27 106p, AF682 217p
Leipzig that world Airways charter 8505 again, 742a
LGW DL17 134p
MAD DL109 135p
ZRH DL67 224p
MUC DL131 225p
CPH DL69 304p
plus flights over the Atlantic or soon to arrive ATL from Stuttgart, Rome, Dusseldorf (6 hours late), Milan, and London-Heathrow.
My opinion is that the AMS origin and the CDG origin are the most consistent with that tweet, since the tweeter did not identify whether he/she was at a gate or after U.S.Customs. If World Race Productions wanted to be really sneaky and had the F3 teams depart from Tel Aviv, a 522a arrival could have been difficult to spot.
Check your sources, the flight form CDG is DL 37 not DL 27
The FRA DL15 actually takes off at 9:45 am and lands at 1:45 pm
Also, what about
DXB at 5:45 am ?
MEX at 5:43 am ?
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The timing of the recent tweets from Atlanta suggest that Teams have arrived on flight DL 37 that left CDG at 9:20 AM - Sun 10-Jul-2011 and arrived at ATL at 1:06 PM - Sun 10-Jul-2011 (scheduled for 1:30 pm)
What was it I said yesterday?
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Here are all the flights that have arrived in Atlanta today (starting with Chateau's favorite from Tel Aviv):
TLV DL153 522a
AMS DL135 1219p
FRA DL15 945a, LH444 1159a
SNN OAE428 1037a
CDG DL27 106p, AF682 217p
Leipzig that world Airways charter 8505 again, 742a
LGW DL17 134p
MAD DL109 135p
ZRH DL67 224p
MUC DL131 225p
CPH DL69 304p
plus flights over the Atlantic or soon to arrive ATL from Stuttgart, Rome, Dusseldorf (6 hours late), Milan, and London-Heathrow.
My opinion is that the AMS origin and the CDG origin are the most consistent with that tweet, since the tweeter did not identify whether he/she was at a gate or after U.S.Customs. If World Race Productions wanted to be really sneaky and had the F3 teams depart from Tel Aviv, a 522a arrival could have been difficult to spot.
Check your sources, the flight form CDG is DL 37 not DL 27
The FRA DL15 actually takes off at 9:45 am and lands at 1:45 pm
Also, what about
DXB at 5:45 am ?
MEX at 5:43 am ?
Chateau,
Is Mexico City in Europe (even extended Europe which goes as far as Tel Aviv by my definition? Not exactly. Same for Dubai.
You are correct that I have a typo in transferring information for DL37. I also made a mistake on DK15 and LH444 by reporting their departure times rather than the arrival times which were what was needed (however, this does not impact either of the 2 primary flights which might have been the one used from CDG or AMS).
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I decided to go the extra mile and examine the hypothesis of where in extended Europe and the Middle East flights could ahve originated and landed in Paris CDG or Amsterdam Schiphol by 8am today. Here is the list for CDG arrivals:
TLV LY229
AMM AF3887
BEY ME209
RUH (Riyadh) SV143
Brussels SN3631 (but why would anyone want to go through CDG when you can go nonstop?)
MAD VY8202 (same comment)
NCE AF7713
Here is the list for AMS arrival, which is much larger due to KLM's Cityhopper flight program from many large cities):
BAH KL445
DXB KL428
SVO KL902
BRE KL1750
HAM KL1776
BER KL1818
DUS KL1852
CGN KL1804
CPH KL424
ATH KL1572
NUE (Nuremburg) KL1880
GOT (Gothenberg) KL1152
OTP (Bucharest) KL1372
AAL (Aalborg, Denmark) KL1314
KRS (Kristiansand, Norway) KL1201
BOD (Bordeaux) KL1314
OSL (Oslo) KL1212
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Is Mexico City in Europe (even extended Europe which goes as far as Tel Aviv by my definition? Not exactly. Same for Dubai.
Apskip, when you write :
Here are all the flights that have arrived in Atlanta today (starting with Chateau's favorite from Tel Aviv):
That means you are listing all the flights that have arrived in Atlanta today ...
If you are filtering the list based on the being in Europe you should say so.
The reason MEX and DBX are important incoming airports is that routes that originate from Europe could connect through these airports.
Please see my post of 3:38 pm (eastern time) where I present the possibility of flight DL 37 being the one used by Teams today. You reiterated that possibility 30 minutes later in a post of your own at 4:08 pm. You may want to read the thread before you present information as your own.
Also, regarding your list of flights connecting with DL 37 to get to ATL, I hope you were aware that I had already posted a list in the Speculation thread for flights connecting in CDG and using the DL 37 flight. You may want to take a look at that before you generate a list of your own.
- Brussels SN3631 I already listed this one, it's the BRU that arrives at 7:30 am in CDG.
- MAD VY8202 I already listed this one, it's the MAD that arrives at 7:55 am in CDG.
- NCE AF7713 I already listed this one, it's the NCE that arrives at 8:00 am in CDG.
From your list, the following are ruled out because they don't exist or there are alternate routes that would get a Team to ATL earlier even if they left later from the exact same location.
- TLV LY229 "Sorry, we could not find the flight LY 229 in our system." (flightstates.com)
- AMM AF3887 This is not valid for consideration because Teams would not select it because they could have landed 20 minutes sooner (based on Schedule) by taking AF 1306 leaving CDG at 7:25 am and arriving at 8:35 am in DUS. Then taking DL 25 leaving DUS at 9:20 am and arriving at 1:10 pm in ATL.
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Apskip, I think your identification of AMS as the incoming flight may be the winner after all :-[
I had ignored the tweet found by Plaidmoon that places the Teams in Helsinki because I was filtering for an early morning start:
Here's an interesting tweet. Hope it's true!
Omg the amazing race is in Helsinki!!! I love that show, wish they would still show it in the uk!!! #fb
48 minutes ago
http://twitter.com/#!/cyberskatergirl
With that tweet in mind we can imagine that the route taken by the Teams was:
KL 1164 leaving HEL at 6:35 am and arriving AMS at 8:05 am
DL 175 leaving AMS at 9:00 am and arriving ATL at 12:55 pm (actual time was 12:19 pm)
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I failed to detect that the international to international minimum connect time for AMS is 50 minutes, not the 1 hour I assumed. That resulted in my not picking up a 805am arrival time in AMS from Helsinki and several other places (Basel WX5200, Strasbourg YS 5284 and Stavanger KL1976) as OK for connecting to DL175. That is a connection that I personally would not book for Schiphol Airport if I depended on it. If teams had to make it and missed, they would have to take either:
DL239 which arrived ATL 234p or
KL621 which arrived ATL 845p
Pillowpal, ATL is not the final city until we actually spot F3 teams there. AR19 is not over for RFF until it is over.
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Apskip, I think your identification of AMS as the incoming flight may be the winner after all :-[
I had ignored the tweet found by Plaidmoon that places the Teams in Helsinki because I was filtering for an early morning start:
Here's an interesting tweet. Hope it's true!
Omg the amazing race is in Helsinki!!! I love that show, wish they would still show it in the uk!!! #fb
48 minutes ago
http://twitter.com/#!/cyberskatergirl
With that tweet in mind we can imagine that the route taken by the Teams was:
KL 1164 leaving HEL at 6:35 am and arriving AMS at 8:05 am
DL 175 leaving AMS at 9:00 am and arriving ATL at 12:55 pm (actual time was 12:19 pm)
I was kind of discounting Helsinki myself, as I figured that the TAR production staff would want to have the teams arrive in the morning rather than in the afternoon. As Apskip pointed out, if you miss the tight connection on that set of flights, there are a couple of flights arriving around 2:30 - 3:00 PM and everything else arrives after 5:30 PM, which would probably ensure a sundown low light conclusion to the race and I doubt if they wanted that. However, since the teams arrived at around the right time for the 12:55 PM flight, I think Helsinki remains a possibility, though probably only about a 30%-40% possibility.
It's too bad that the tweeter in Helsinki isn't responding to my questions. A little information from her could clear this up quickly.
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I think Chateau is working on that and probably has a better feel for it but these are the options that I personally found:
DL 15 from Frankfurt
DL 109 from Madrid or
DL 11 from London.
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Chateau will be the man...but there was a possible Paris flight as well...
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Well I'm trying!
Recent analysis points to Paris as the winner (Paris, Guatemala City, and San Jose are the incoming flights that fit the time frame).
But, an extremely long Customs line would put Amsterdam back in there :duno:
Also, it would help to know for sure if the Flightstats 'actual arrival times' are runway time or gate time. Anybody know which?
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Tried an experiment a few weeks ago, and I believe "Actual Departure Time" refers to the plane leaving the gate, and "Actual Arrival Time" refers to touch-down on tarmac.
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Hi! I was the Girl in the Train at the Atlanta Airport! It was So COOL seeing the "Team" Guy and Girl along with the Camera Guy, Sound Guy and someone else ignoring me on his phone...Especially Ignoring me after I asked if they were on the Amazing Race! Craziness! I have been enjoying reading the Forums, but wish I had out my camera phone to take Video! DUH!
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I was in the D terminal, and they were already in the train....I arrived between 1-2.....So, they must have arrived in the E gate.
I've done some research, and the flights arriving in the E gate around the same time as me are:
Barcelona
London Gatwick
Frankfurt
Paris
LA
Madrid
(All Delta Flights)
Panama City
San Jose, CR
Guadalajara
Guatemala City
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:bigwelcome :rodeo :pirate7
Great to have you kristanleea!
Watch out it gets crazy here! :snakes:
Now.... try to remember everything you can ...
Oh, 1st question: What was the thing you saw "race" on?
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RACE was in Yellow Tape on the Camera.I should say...The Tape was Yellow with Big Black Letters that said :RACE with I think 98?
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:bigwelcome kristenleea!!! We are glad you are here!! Thanks so much for the info!!
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The flight from Taipei to Jakarta was reported to be the next one at 830am. The first flight was CI 5855 departing at 805am, arriving at 1205pm. There was another China Airlines flight scheduled for about 40 minutes later, which I don;t think the teams were on.
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In examining after-the-fact the train options, they are identical to what we researched before-hand. Krabbe found the official Indonesian rail timetable (not partial ones like I was using before that). His work shows that the only departure from Gambir station close to 5pm was the KI Bima train departing at 1700 and arriving Yogyakarta at a middle-of-the-night 0047. Since teams did arrive in blackness, it could have been any time until 5am, but had logically to have been at 0047. From there the drive to teh Jomblang Caves would have left them many hours to kill before they could enter the Caves, but that would mean the equivalent of a Hours of Operation delay and the arrival of teams at Jomblang Caves did not appear to be very compact.
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FLIGHT POSSIBILITIES for Leg 4, Yogyakarta to Phuket
This is an exemplary case study of the complexity of air travel options in a dense corridor like Indonesia, Singapore, Malaysia and Thailand. The situation is fairly common, a range of flights from point A to point B (Yogyakarta to Jakarta in this case), others from point B to points C, D and E (Singapore, Kuala Lumpur and Bangkok), then a final set of flights from points C, D and E to point F, the destination of Phuket. It could have been more complicated if I added Penang as an intermediate point, but I decided to keep it "simple" and not do that.
There are different ways of presenting this information, but I decided that the most efficient was to used the intermediate points as the name for the routes representing different combinations of flights. That gives me Bangkok 1 to 3, Kuala Lumpur 1 to 8 and Singapore 1 to 4. So that means that all routes start with YOG to CGK, B routes go CGK to BKK and then BKK to HKT, C routes go CGK to KUL, then KUL to HKT and D routes go CGK to SIN and then SIN HKT. Here is my spreadsheet of this information (please note that there are many flights at in-between times left out, as they are quite numerous; what I show is that last flight that can make a 50 minute connection; also for the few that are publically available the actual flight times for June 24, 2011 were used):
B Routes YOG CGK CGK BKK BKK HKT
JT561 0700 0800 GA866 0945 1310 FD3029 1440 1600
GA205 0940 1045 TG434 1238 1614 PG277 1710 1833
JT559 1140 1240 GA868 1250 1615 TG221 1819 1945
C Routes YOG CGK CGK KUL KUL HKT
GA201 0600 0700 AK381 0835 1130 AK826 1240 1300
JT561 0700 0800 GA820 0850 1150 AK826 1240 1300
GA203 0800 0900 MH710 1110 1422 QR624 1523 1550
QZ7343 0825 0925 QZ7692 1130 1430 QR624 1523 1550
GA205 0940 1045 JT282 1230 1530 AK828 2040 2105
JT559 1140 1240 QZ7694 1400 1700 AK828 2040 2105
QZ7341 1245 1345 AK385 1450 1750 AK828 2040 2105
JT563 2000 2100 MH720 1620 1941 AK828 2040 2105
D Routes YOG CGK CGK SIN SIN HKT
GA201 0600 0705 JT150 0825 1105 FD3525 1315 1400
JT561 0700 0800 GA824 0855 1130 FD3525 1315 1400
JT561 0700 0800 SQ953 0921 1202 FD3525 1315 1400
GA203 0800 0905 QZ9492 0950 1247 SQ5054 1320 1410
JT553 0920 1020 SQ957 1120 1400 MI756 1632 1710
JT553 0920 1020 GA826 1120 1406 MI756 1632 1710
QZ7341 1245 1345 GA830 1455 1759 3K537 2105 2125
QZ7341 1245 1345 VF204 1505 1812 3K537 2015 2125
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The flight from Taipei to Jakarta was reported to be the next one at 830am. The first flight was CI 5855 departing at 805am, arriving at 1205pm. There was another China Airlines flight scheduled for about 40 minutes later, which I don;t think the teams were on.
I would guess that teams were on CL761 which left at 8:58 and arrived at 13:21.
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For the beginning of leg 5, teams will have to get from Krabi to Bangkok. Depending on exactly how AR19 producers have worded the clue, it is quite possible that teams might be taking an overnight bus for the 500 km between Krabi and Bangkok. Here are the possible bus options:
1st class air-conditioned bus 24 Seats 17:30 12:00 Krabi Bus Terminal
2nd class air-conditioned bus 50 Seats 17:30 12:30 Krabi Bus Terminal
2nd class air-conditioned bus 50 Seats 16:20 12:30 Krabi Bus terminal
2nd class air-conditioned bus 50 Seats 16:00 12:30 Krabi Khlong Tom; Buy ticket at Kodak Shop
also: 07:30, 08:00, 16:30, 16:40, 17:00
trip normally takes 12 to 14 hours
Train/Bus combination
Phuket Town depart by bus: 12:00 16:00
Surat Thani station arrive by bus: 16:00 20:00 Surat Thani rail station arrive to change bus to train
Surat Thani station depart by train: 17:38 21:04
Bangkok (Hualamphong) arrive: 05:35 08:35
Flight options depend on where the pit stop for leg 4 is. If close to Krabi, then these are the applicable flights to Bangkok:
TG242 0958 1122
FD3164 1205 1325
TG250 1838 2011
FD3168 1918 2030
If the pit stop is close to Phuket, then there are approximately hourly flights to Bangkok.
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I think they will take buses:
(http://www.busphuket.com/images/intro.jpg)
It's about a 15 hour trip. Bus schedule here (http://www.busphuket.com/timetablebkk.php).
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We never circled back to put all the pieces together in and out of Malawi. Here they are:
June 30 BKK JNB TG703 0108 0700
June 30 JNB LLW SA170 0959 1207
For July 2 after the 2 legs in Malawi I checked whether it was possible to get out from Blantyre to Nairobi. It isn't. There is SA173 to Johannesburg, but it arrives well after the flight below and isn't likely to have been part of the exit route from Africa.
July 2 KL566 NBO AMS 2241 0553+1, which arrived on the morning of July 3rd and offered many possibilities to connect to either Brussels or Copenhagen. There were no nonstops available to either Brussels or Copenhagen departing July 2, but SN453 was a late evening flight to Brussels on July 3.
Note from the editor: I left out July 2 KQ731 1200 1510
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From tonight's episode (Phuket) we get a glimpse into the future :lol3:
Looks like one or more teams will be on Kenya Airways KQ 116 going from NBO to AMS leaving at 8:10 am and arriving at 3:55pm on July 3rd (it boards at 6:55 am).
It is also a code share with KLM KL 4140 with is consistent with our spoiler passenger who spotted Racers on such a flight on July 3rd.
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Also from the Phuket episode we have the flight that Tommy & Andy and Zac & Laurence took from Jakarta to Bangkok (connection to get to Phuket).
Garuda Indonesia GA 868 leaving at 12:50 pm and arriving at 4:15 pm on June 24th.
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From tonight's episode (Phuket) we get a glimpse into the future :lol3:
Looks like one or more teams will be on Kenya Airways KQ 116 going from NBO to AMS leaving at 8:10 am and arriving at 3:55pm on July 3rd (it boards at 6:55 am).
It is also a code share with KLM KL 4140 with is consistent with our spoiler passenger who spotted Racers on such a flight on July 3rd.
Great spot! So they're just handing us spoilers on a plate now?!
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Darn good eyes!! Thanks!! :jumpy:
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Chateau, you're way faster than I am! Ticket for sound-man Ryan?
Above flight works well with KQ 732 from Lilongwe to Nairobi via Lusaka (2 Jul 2355-0105 to Lusaka, 3 Jul 0205-0545 to Nairobi).
After KQ 116 from NBO-AMS (0810-1555), teams can connect (if they're allowed to use the airline) to Cimber Sterling QI 3534, 1915-2055, or the more mainstream SAS SK 554, 2020-2145, to get to Copenhagen. Hours of Operation to pass the night, then race the next day (4 Jul).
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And a truly awesome team will find a faster flight sequence through London, Heathrow: :jam:
Virgin Atlantic VS 672 NBO LHR 9:50 am arriving 4:40 pm
SAS SK 1516 LHR CPH 6:15 pm arriving 9:10 pm
With the possibility of switching to the earlier flight
SAS SK 506 LHR CPH 4:50 pm arriving 7:45 pm (actual takeoff was 5:19 pm, from the same terminal where VS 672 landed)
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There are some other alternatives:
KQ116 NBO AMS 0810 1655 connecting with SK1550 AMS CPH 1820 1940 (note: this is a 75 minute connect time in AMS)
earlier in the day MS851 NBO CAI 0430 0820 connecting with MS759 CAI CPH 1000 1440
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I can't seem to find SK1550 for Sunday July 3rd. It does show up for Saturday July 2nd though.
And the flight through Cairo leaves Nairobi too early for the 5:45 am arrival from Lusaka/Lilongwe.
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There's been speculation that the teams might have taken buses from Phuket to Bangkok; if so, that would be the obverse of season one when teams (or at least Bill and Joe) took buses from Bangkok to Krabi , right?
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I can't seem to find SK1550 for Sunday July 3rd. It does show up for Saturday July 2nd though.
And the flight through Cairo leaves Nairobi too early for the 5:45 am arrival from Lusaka/Lilongwe.
The departure from Nairobi to Cairo is easily accomplished if teams are on KQ731 LLW NBO July 1200 1510. I see the teams as finally spreading out a bit, with some making that and others having to wait for KQ732 LLW NBO 2355 0545+1 via Lusaka.
I had checked on Sk1550, but on rechecking it, you are right; it did not exist on July 3.
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theschnauzers,
Absolutely right. AR1, ep. 9 was the infamous delay of Joe/Bill in starting to head for Krabi, allowing all the other teams to beat them there.
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Peach, didn't we get a siting at the Lilongwe airport of teams leaving? It was evening of July 2nd ? :duno:
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http://forum.realityfanforum.com/index.php/topic,25526.msg623723.html#msg623723 (http://forum.realityfanforum.com/index.php/topic,25526.msg623723.html#msg623723)
Never proven arrival or departure but the date of July 3 would fit departure.
And:
The Kenya to ams one July 3
http://forum.realityfanforum.com/index.php/topic,25526.msg623886.html#msg623886 (http://forum.realityfanforum.com/index.php/topic,25526.msg623886.html#msg623886)
and via Milan:
http://forum.realityfanforum.com/index.php/topic,25526.msg623723.html#msg623723 (http://forum.realityfanforum.com/index.php/topic,25526.msg623723.html#msg623723)
Much more info on each if you **cough cough** :readtt: :lol:
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Based on the boarding pass, the NBO-AMS sighting, and the Hillerod spoiler, we know this is one of the flights teams took:
KQ 732, KQ 116, then QI 3534 (or similar) from Lilongwe to Lusaka to Nairobi to Amsterdam to Copenhagen, 2 Jul 2355 to 3 Jul 2055
Here's what we assumed following the Milan spoiler:
ET 870, ET 708, then SK 1690 (or similar) from Lilongwe to Addis Ababa to Milan MXP to Milan LIN to Copenhagen, 4 Jul 1505 to 5 Jul 0835
This routing is unlikely, however, because teams leave Malawi and arrive in Denmark much, much later (more than a day) than the other flight we know.
Here are the fastest options via Addis Ababa on the 3rd. It's through Paris or Rome, which would mean the spoiler met the teams from Addis Ababa to Paris/Rome, then split ways at the French/Italian capital, our spoiler heading to Milan and the teams headed to Copenhagen:
ET 876, ET 704, then AF 1750 from Lilongwe to Addis Ababa to Paris to Copenhagen, 3 Jul 1505 to 4 Jul 0920
ET 876, ET 702, LH 243, then SK 640 from Lilongwe to Addis Ababa to Rome to Frankfurt to Copenhagen, 3 Jul 1505 to 4 Jul 1055
The problem is that there's a faster flight even if teams miss our established 2355 to Nairobi:
KQ 724, KL 566, then SK 550 from Lilongwe to Nairobi to Amsterdam to Copenhagen, 3 Jul 1315 to 4 Jul 0820
That leaves a Milan flight itinerary that arrives earlier than the Amsterdam route:
ET 871, ET 708, then U2 2655 (or similar) from Lilongwe to Addis Ababa to Milan MXP to Copenhagen, 2 Jul 1505 to 3 Jul 1105
It's the most likely Milan route at the moment given the information we have, but it arrives in Copenhagen so early (11.05am as opposed to 8.55pm) that we need to have a contrived Hours of Operation to balance teams out.
And just because we can, here's a map to make everything even more confusing!
(http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=LLW-LUN-NBO-AMS-CPH,+LLW-ADD-MXP-LIN-CPH,+LLW-ADD-CDG-CPH,+LLW-ADD-FCO-FRA-CPH,+LLW-NBO-AMS-CPH,+LLW-ADD-MXP-CPH&MS=wls&MR=540&MX=540x540&PM=*)
What are the assumptions we are making? Did we take a leap of logic somewhere?
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http://forum.realityfanforum.com/index.php/topic,25526.msg623723.html#msg623723 (http://forum.realityfanforum.com/index.php/topic,25526.msg623723.html#msg623723)
Never proven arrival or departure but the date of July 3 would fit departure.
And:
The Kenya to ams one July 3
http://forum.realityfanforum.com/index.php/topic,25526.msg623886.html#msg623886 (http://forum.realityfanforum.com/index.php/topic,25526.msg623886.html#msg623886)
and via Milan:
http://forum.realityfanforum.com/index.php/topic,25526.msg623723.html#msg623723 (http://forum.realityfanforum.com/index.php/topic,25526.msg623723.html#msg623723)
Much more info on each if you **cough cough** :readtt: :lol:
Well, the thing is that the NBO AMS flight does not work if you are constrained to leave Malawi on July 3rd. And now we know that the NBO AMS flight is solid. So it follows that Teams had to leave Lilongwe on July 2nd. I was thinking we had an airport siting in Lilongwe that supported this.
I think the information we have shows that leg started late enough in the day of July 2nd to cause teams to miss both the noon flight to NBO and the 3:05 pm flight to Addis Ababa.
I did report that Teams parked their cars overnight, July 3rd, in the churchyard of Von Frelsers Kirke in Copenhagen. The Hours of Operation lifted at 7:30 am the next day on July 4th.
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The info on July 3 came from two places.
One was from an on the ground spotter who shared that teams were scheduled to depart the 3rd. I was unable to get further clarification when I asked about the 2nd, but the source is highly knowledgable, and ALL other info was 100% reliable.
The other was surmised from this...but there is nothing to say that the tweet dated the third could not have actually been referring to a flight on the 2nd. Was unable to get further info.
xxx
Back from Kenya!
4 Jul Favorite Retweet Reply »
xxx
They were filming the amazing race on my flight from Kenya to Amsterdam. #spoileralert
3 Jul Favorite Retweet Reply
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The following flights are the best combinations to leave Lilongwe on the 3rd, all arriving in Copenhagen after the Hours of Operation have lifted. Teams missing the flight we have through Lusaka, Nairobi and Amsterdam will have to wait more than 13h for the next flight:
Lilongwe to Nairobi (1315-1625)
Nairobi to Amsterdam (2230-0540)
Amsterdam to Copenhagen (0655-0820)
If tickets are sold out or teams happen to be so incompetent they fall more than 14h behind the lead team, they can catch up with this itinerary with risky connections:
Lilongwe to Addis Ababa (1505-1945)
Addis Ababa to Bahrain (2255-0025)
Bahrain to Frankfurt (0115-0640)
Frankfurt to Copenhagen (0735-0855)
The safer itinerary for these incompetent teams is:
Lilongwe to Addis Ababa (1505-1945)
Addis Ababa to Paris (2345-0630)
Paris to Copenhagen (0730-0920)
Only this third itinerary is plausible for teams who wish to bump into the spoiler travelling from Ethiopia to Italy. But this means we'd have to assume that they fell 14h or more behind the lead teams in Malawi.
As mentioned above, the fourth itinerary that leaves Lilongwe on 2 Jul would mean Hours of Operation begin at the very contrived time of noon, lasting until the next morning. So either 1) some teams are so fast we'd need a crazy Hours of Operation or 2) some teams are so slow they fall way behind. It's pretty difficult to reconcile the Milan spoiler...
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How was it that we got the date for that Ethiopia to Italy spoiler flight? Can we review that, because I could not reconstruct it from what I could find.
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I don't think we have a date for that spoiler, so I looked at flights, both direct and connecting, from Ethiopia to Italy between 2 and 4 Jul.
If the flight where the spoiler met the teams was on 2 Jul, they would arrive in Copenhagen at 11.05am on 3 Jul, too early for a normal overnight Hours of Operation. If the flight was on 3 Jul (or later), teams would arrive after 9.20am on 4 Jul, too late to make the Hours of Operation bunching, and would also have better options than travelling through Addis Ababa (for example, Lilongwe-Nairobi-Amsterdam-Copenhagen, arriving 8.20am on 4 Jul).
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That's a good bit of research! We may have to wait for the show to figure it out. :duno:
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I think they must have left on July 2.5. :lol:
You guys are AWESOME!!!
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Took a look at the original blog. I don't see anything about the blogger being in Ethiopia at all. It's been a little bit of a wild goose chase hasn't it?
So now I'm thinking, since flights are so far and few between, TPTB would have wanted to get everyone to Nairobi together at least. What happens after that doesn't really matter because of the overnight hold-up at Copenhagen.
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There used to be a fair bit about the mission she was invoved in there.... I paid attention because of my own Ethiopia experience.
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What about a producer-supplied charter flight to get out of Malawi? Wouldn't that simplify some of the travel issues.
One thing I'm sure TPTB did this time was to work on avoiding the problems the teams had in getting out of Africa during TARAS. A charter flight (using a smaller aircraft, presumably) would get them out of the scheduling problem. The other reason I think this is a possibility is that TPTB have to get Phil to the European destination ahead of the teams, if possible.
I could see why they'd use an artificial hours of operation if necessary to assure all the teams got to that point without vbeing penalized for the lack of flights. We already had one "artificial" HOO this season (and those have been rare in recent seasons.)
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But we have sightings on regular flights.
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Well, the NBO to AMS was a regular flight with a sighting. But getting to NBO by the Lilongwe/Lusaka midnight flight was not sighted and we had to piece that together.
I forget who figured it out. It wasn't me! :tup:
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Here is a scenario which is quite real:
The first 5 teams being released in Bangkok (Marcus/Amani, Bill/Cathi, Ernie/Cindy, Andy/Tommy, Justin/Jennifer) for the airport should have no trouble meeting the 108a departure for TG703 to Johannesburg because they checked in perhaps 15.5 hours or slightly less before it.
However, the last 2 teams (Jeremy/Sandy and Laurence/Zac) could not have checked in before noon since Laurence/Zac were on the bus 2.5 hours behind the 530pm express bus that carried the top 3 teams. They are going to be in big trouble making it to Bangkok International Airport, checking in for the flight and then making it through security if there is a 12 hour pit stop.
I have looked at these alternatives:
Addis Ababa - leaves in the hour before TG703
Nairobi - leaves in the hour before TG703
Singapore - nothing fits
Mumbai - nothing fits
Delhi - nothing fits
So, my conclusion is that any team who misses TG703 is in big trouble, as I have found no way for them to lose 24 hours for arrival in Lilongwe. In particular I found no flights into Lilongwe on June 30 other than SA170, which is the one connecting to TG703.
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Just a note - Laurence and Zac arrived at the mat at the same time as Andy and Tommy. So they will be together, whether with the first group or the second.
Since Andy and Tommy were on a 4:30 bus, even if not express, they must have bled a lot of time at the school.
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lovetherace,
I just learned that too, by getting to the end of the weekly insider videos. That means that the spread from #6 to #7 is probably not too wide, as Jeremy/Sandy were on the 430pm bus. They did dissipate what was a 2.5 hour lead on Laurence/Zac but if they were close behind them they could be OK. On the flip side, you now cause me to worry about Andy/Tommy, as we could see on the telecast that they had a major delay before reaching and arriving at that school. They would have to be in the noon check-in time zone, which gives them just over 1 hour to get to Suvarnabhumi Airport (BKK).
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Somewhere in the extra videos for leg 5 is the information that the second-class (I assume this is the class actually purchased) bus trip from Phuket to Bangkok (all 550km or 340 miles) costs only $15. What a bargain!
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Also, just double checked - Ernie & Cindi were on a bus by themselves. Marcus & Amani were together with Bill & Cathi on a different bus. I do think both buses were 5:30 buses.
Don't know if E&C knew they were actually in first place at the fish feeding location. They were so glad to come in third; might have been first if they stayed in the cab. Could really be kicking themselves right now.
Question - would TPTB adjust the pitstop time in order to overcome the potential issue with flight times out of Bangkok?
Also, do you know the cost of a flight between Phuket and Bangkok? Someone on Twop said the 4500 baht paid to the taxi drivers equaled the cost of a plane ticket - round trip!
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We can no longer assume a standard pit stop of 12 hours for any leg. That's been true for a few races now.
A no pitstop rest period is just as likely as one that extends beyond 24 to 36 hours. The producers will undoubtedly adjust the rest period at the pit stop in order to eliminate problems with teams making a sole once-daily flight to the next destination, especially here. If this last leg was an emergency replacement leg, including having teams reach Bangkok for the pit stop, then I'm sure the rest period will be adjusted so that all teams make that once daily flight.
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We have had 10 hour Pitstops before in order to catch a flight... But why do we think they have to rush at all?
Could someone please (re) spell out where we were on what days? I was still thinking we had an extended PitStop in Bangkok of up to 48 hours before departure.
Can someone check my days and tell me where I might have gone wrong please? ???
** means confirmed flight sightings
June 24>>flying to Phuket, late eve arrival **
June 25>>Phuket leg + 24 hour Pitstop
June 26>>more Phuket/Phang Nga, overnight bus ride Phuket to Bangkok
June 27>> Bangkok leg
black hole
June 30>>dep Bangkok
June 30>>Malawi arrival (via Joburg)**
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I'll work backwards from the flight from Johannesburg to Lilongwe, SA 170 (30 Jun 1000-1225).
Now the direct flight from Bangkok to Johannesburg that Apskip has above doesn't fly on this day of the week. However, teams leaving Bangkok the evening of 29 Jun have plenty of other options (showing the quickest itineraries only), all connecting to the same Johannesburg to Lilongwe flight above:
3K 514 then SQ 478 via Singapore to Johannesburg (29 Jun 2120 - 30 Jun 0700)
AK 751 then MH 203 via Kuala Lumpur to Johannesburg (29 Jun 2020 - 30 Jun 0600)
CX 702 then CX 749 via Hong Kong to Johannesburg (29 Jun 1840 - 30 Jun 0700)
The first four teams checked in at 9.30am on 27 Jun. TPTB should be fine in having teams depart the early afternoon of 29 Jun, so I'd say probably a good 50 hour Pit Stop? The easiest explanation is that the replaced legs probably required more travel to get to Lilongwe, and hence the extra time that production got to twiddle with their thumbs...
A truly daring team that was released too early can try this itinerary to gain a full... ten minutes!
Bangkok to Singapore (29 Jun 1115-1430) to Perth (1550-2105) to Johannesburg (2350-0520)
To Lusaka (30 Jun 0635-0830) to Lilongwe (1105-1215)
For record's sake, here are the timings of the first four Pit Stops:
Taipei (12h), Yogyakarta I (22h), Yogyakarta II (18h), Phuket (24h)
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We have had 10 hour Pitstops before in order to catch a flight... But why do we think they have to rush at all?
Could someone please (re) spell out where we were on what days? I was still thinking we had an extended PitStop in Bangkok of up to 48 hours before departure.
Can someone check my days and tell me where I might have gone wrong please? ???
** means confirmed flight sightings
June 24>>flying to Phuket, late eve arrival **
June 25>>Phuket leg + 24 hour Pitstop
June 26>>more Phuket/Phang Nga, overnight bus ride Phuket to Bangkok
June 27>> Bangkok leg
black hole
June 30>>dep Bangkok
June 30>>Malawi arrival (via Joburg)**
I admit I did not give this a lot of thought. However, what we know is that the full Phuket area leg (#4) was begun on June 24 and completed June 25. I assume that the Phuket/Bangkok leg (#5) started on June 26 and finished on June 27 at around 930am to about noon for the 7 remaining teams. That means there are about 51 hours before the leading teams need to be at Bangkok airport. It also means that the lagging teams have about 48 hours before they need to be there, assuming the June 30 TG703 departure which connects them perfectly to SA170 in Johannesburg. Allowing ample safety factor against the possibility that adverse weather in route to JNB affects that connection, if I were World Race Productions with that much cushion I would use a bit of it to get them to JNB sooner than the 3 hours connection that I otherwise forsee. I don't know which flight teams might take (and I think they could well spread out) but I am going to figure it out (check back in this post soon) and I bet WRP was able to too.
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I have done due diligence based on the assumption that teams MAY have left Bangkok a day earlier than necessary to provide the cushion delineated in my prior post above.
I found that departure from Bangkok to Addis Ababa on ET609 0115 0630 June 29 connected with ET809 0840 1320 and teams under this scenario waited at JNB (where I believe they could well have been spotted if so) until SA170 on June 30.
The departure from Bangkok to Nairobi would be similar.
So would the departure from Bangkok to Dubai.
My analysis of Singapore (except for that weird route down to Perth and then across the Indian Ocean) is unchanged from yesterday. Also my analysis of Mumbai and Delhi is unchanged.
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Apskip, I don't think the Bangkok-Johannesburg flight runs on the evening of 29 Jun/morning of 30 Jun. Read my post above yours.
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Deep in the bowels of this thread, I had it right (nonstop TG703 BKK JNB early Wednesday 29 June 0115+1 0730+1, but this does not work for early Thursday morning in post #63 on July 1), but thanks for reminding me, Neobie.
That means TG703 works for June 29, with a 27 hour layover near Oliver Tambo airport in Johannesburg until SA170 departs.
The alternative through Singapore and Perth is delineated by both me and by Neobie as long as any BKK SIN flight leaves by 11am. However, the more direct route involving SQ478 0210 0649 works with any BKK SIN flight on June 29 but only the SQ478 on June 30 is a possible conncction.
Addis Ababa works on June 29 with BKK ADD ET609/607 0035 0525 combined with ET763 1036 1631 or ET765 1442 2050.
I find the most interesting connection point NBO. One June 29, KQ887 0055 0625 gets you to Nairobi early enough to connect with KQ722 0825 0935. Why didn't teams take that? It makes no sense to me unless their travel agents did not find that connection or either of those flights was full. There were other options through JNB which took a day longer.
One final connection point is Dubai, which actually had the most options for June 29:
BKK DXB EK385 0125 0430, EK419 0240 0545, MH6142 0435 0830 all of which connect with DXB JNB EK763 1036 1317
BKK DXB EK375 1018 1317 connecting with DXB JNB EK765 1442 2050
My overall conclusion is that commencing no earlier than midnight starting June June 29, except for the one June 29 connection through ADD, all routes led to Johannesburg and connection with SA170 on June 30. There were possible connections through each of the airport listed above.
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I'm scared to look in the bowels of this thread. :lol:
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I think my bottom line for the episode is this?
As long as all teams are released between 11am and 7pm on 29 Jun and tickets don't run out, all teams - no matter what route they take to Johannesburg - will end up on the same plane from Johannesburg to Lilongwe the next morning.
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And that's the way they like it (WRP that is) :tup:
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Production might have decided to provide the tickets; that's another possibility that hasn't been raised. Especially with the Thailand legs likely being the emergency replacements.
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theschnauzers,
You could very well be correct. However, there would not be a private jet for a 5000+ miles trip, so there must be combinations of flights that the teams take even if they do not control which ones they are on.
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theschnauzers,
You could very well be correct. However, there would not be a private jet for a 5000+ miles trip, so there must be combinations of flights that the teams take even if they do not control which ones they are on.
apskip, ever heard of chartered flights? or provided tickets?
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redskevin,
Let me repeat:
"You could very well be correct (about provided tickets). However, there would not be a private jet for a 5000+ miles trip, so there must be combinations of flights that the teams take even if they do not control which ones they are on."
Since you don't understand what I said, I will go through the logic of this. While it is true that there are very occasionally chartered flights, THERE WOULD NOT BE A PRIVATE JET FOR A 5000+ MILE TRIP. The reason is simple economics of operating a jet for long distances. There are economies of scale which demand that 200+ passenger planes make flights of that length. That is my opinion and you are free to disagree with it. We'll see who is correct. If there is ever a flight segment where a private plane makes sense, it is Johannesburg to Lilongwe because of the low frequency of weekly flights. Even there, World Race Productions elected to go with commercial flights.
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I want to mail the lid on the coffin for this. Here is the list of the 4 charter flights in the entire history of the U.S. Amazing Race:
AR1, Cape Aviation Business Centre, teams had to sign up for one of two charter flights to Walvis Bay, Namibia at 9:00 am and 12:00 pm Capetown to Walvis Bay 794 miles
AR2, Adelaide (National Jet Systems Terminal) to Coober Pedy (Coober Pedy Airport)
Adelaide to Cooper Pedy 435 miles
AR5, Nairobi (Jomo Kenyatta International Airport - Z. Boskovic Air Charters) to Kilimanjaro, Tanzania Nairobi to Kilimanjaro 126 miles
AR6, Addis Ababa (Bole International Airport) to Lalibela (Lalibela Airport) Addis Ababa to Laibela 208 miles
Since AR6, no charter flights that I can locate.
In other words, these are all flights of well under 1000 miles.
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To be clear, my last post was suggesting provided tickets. In recent seasons, this has been done, and teams were free to find earlier arriving flights if they could find them. In this instance, from the flight frequency, the number of flight legs and connections, the apparently emergency substitution of the Thailand legs, and the time frame between the Bangkok pit stop and the sighting on the flight to Malawi, it would be a very sound thing for production to do.
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CORRECTED:
** means confirmed flight sightings
June 24>>flying to Phuket, late eve arrival **
June 25>>Phuket leg + 24 hour 48 hour Pitstop
June 27>>more Phuket/Phang Nga, overnight bus ride Phuket to Bangkok
June 28>> Bangkok leg, usual Pitstop
June 29>>begin travel to Malawi, dep Bangkok
June 30>>Malawi arrival (via Joburg)**
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Ah, thanks Peach! Here's a shot of Cathi's watch as they were leaving the Pit Start at Phuket. Certainly looks more like a "MO 6 27" than a "SU 6 26" eh?
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It's been over 2 weeks since this thread last had a post, but we now know what teams actually did in getting from LLW to CPH. There were no flights out on July 3 except via Lusaka onward to Nairobi on KQ732 1255 0545+1. There the teams split up. It looks like Laurence/Zac had a better travel agent in Malawi. They got this itinerary:
NBO LHR VS72 0942+1 1644+1
LHR CPH SK1516 1815+1 2106+1 (36 minutes later than as reported in the telecast)
The other teams would have taken NBO AMS KQ166 0810+1 1555+1.
If they were quick or slow on the International to International connection at AMS, they would have gotten Cimber Airlines (I have never heard of it) QI3534 2045+1 2241+1. That arrived with 2 of the teams 19 minutes after the reported-on-the-telecast 1030pm arrival in Copenhagen. 2 other teams were on Norwegian Air 3541 2115 2310.
Marcus and Amani elected to stay in AMS airport rather than getting booked all the way to Copenhagen (what were they thinking?). They still had the opportunity to get into the mix of all 5 teams ahead of them by taking:
SQ7364 0125+2 0255+2 but they passed that up too.
They actually took on July 4 SK560 0655+2 0820+2
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I have taken a look at the new Lego-Land photos and have withdrawn my bold prediction. From Copenhagen to Billund, there are 3 major ways of getting there (I once took a train in the reverse direction, so I know that's easy):
train - about 3 hours
bus - about 3 hours
flight - about 1 hour + hassle time before and after in airports on both ends; they were 7 flights on July 6
From Billund to Brussels is 390 miles. They could take a train (particularly an overnight), but they probably will fly. Here is the sparse schedule of what actually happened on July 7:
EZ8221 0725 0834
EZ8223 1750 1917
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I am going to make a bold prediction. Transportation from Copenhagen to Belgium will be overnight on the moving pit stop ship Havet.
Since Brussels is land-locked, there are 3 ports where a ship could get close:
Antwerp
Mechelen
Ghent
Check out the episode thread, we already know they are going to Billund, which has an international airport, where they could find a flight.
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kiki,
You are right, but I did not know about the LegoLand photos when i made my prediction. I have revised it to go on one of 3 modes listed above from Copenhagen to Brussels and then probably by plane from Billund to Brussels. Take a look at my revised post above for details.
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I think we know enough about timing to take a crack at Brussels to Panama City. I will be using July 8 as the time for the flights below.
There are only 2 flights which can make the optimal connection, which is in Amsterdam. They are:
WA1720 0605 0638
WA1722 0838 0914
Any flights after that are not in time to connect to:
KL757 AMS PTY 1153 1658
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The question of rail fare Copenhagen to Billund has come up in another thread. I want to address it here.
"6/11/2007
Question
Thanks in advance for your help - I need to know how much I need to budget for a train ticket between Veije and Copenhagen. I think Veije is near Billund (note - it is about 18 miles east).
I plan to arrive to Veije via Billund airport and take a train to Copenhagen - Do you think I need to buy the train ticket in advance? I will be there this Thursday.
Is it expensive to travel by train? How much do you think a one-way ticket should be?
Thanks a lot for all your help.
Answer
Welcome to Denmark ! The weather is excellent right now.
The ticket will cost you dkk 63, or about usd 11."
USD11 would have been maybe 9 euros, which is not 19 euros. I also doubt that the rail fare could have increased that much in either currency in 4 years of little inflation.
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Getting from Billund to Hamburg is complicated. In fact, it is the most difficult set of transportation connections ever in the Amazing Race if teams do eschew flying. Here are some of the major possibilities (there are plenty more since trains in Europe run about every hour on major routes):
dep. 0535 arr. 1142 Bus 44 > Bus 82 > walk > train RA5105 > train 5517
dep. 0622 arr. 1248 same as above
dep. 0711 arr. 1248 Bus 44 > walk > train RA3717 > train 5219
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Here are schedules from Hamburg to Brussels by rail, then on to Brussels and Ghent, with the Hamburg departures connecting from the Billund arrival times shown above:
dep. Hamburg 1201 1346 1401
arr. Brussels Central 1846 2046 2046
dep. Brussels Central 1900 2100 2100
arr. Ghent 1938 2138 2138
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I want to mail the lid on the coffin for this. Here is the list of the 4 charter flights in the entire history of the U.S. Amazing Race:
AR1, Cape Aviation Business Centre, teams had to sign up for one of two charter flights to Walvis Bay, Namibia at 9:00 am and 12:00 pm Capetown to Walvis Bay 794 miles
AR2, Adelaide (National Jet Systems Terminal) to Coober Pedy (Coober Pedy Airport)
Adelaide to Cooper Pedy 435 miles
AR5, Nairobi (Jomo Kenyatta International Airport - Z. Boskovic Air Charters) to Kilimanjaro, Tanzania Nairobi to Kilimanjaro 126 miles
AR6, Addis Ababa (Bole International Airport) to Lalibela (Lalibela Airport) Addis Ababa to Laibela 208 miles
Since AR6, no charter flights that I can locate.
In other words, these are all flights of well under 1000 miles.
uh...you sure?
AR18, Sydney to Broken Hill 600 miles
:lol3:
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Regional Express is a scheduled airline, so AR18 teams were NOT on a charter flight. For example for the date Nov. 23, 2010 here was the schedule for SYD BHQ:
ZL 9578 Regional Express 06:05 07:55
ZL 9596 Regional Express 06:30 08:20
ZL 878 Regional Express 18:20 20:10
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Regional Express is a scheduled airline, so AR18 teams were NOT on a charter flight. For example for the date Nov. 23, 2010 here was the schedule for SYD BHQ:
ZL 9578 Regional Express 06:05 07:55
ZL 9596 Regional Express 06:30 08:20
ZL 878 Regional Express 18:20 20:10
http://www.cbs.com/shows/amazing_race/episodes/54879
From the OFFICIAL CBS episode recap:
“The first six teams to sign up there would be on the first of two charter flights to Broken Hill, a small mining town 684 miles from Sydney.”
:lol3:
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I want to examine the speculation by Dr. Rox that World Race Productions chartered 2 flights on Tuesaday 11/23/10 to get teams from Sydney to Broken Hill quickly, necessitated by the Indian Pacific train schedule back from Broken Hill to Sydney. Those flights are:
ZL9678 and ZL9596
The numbering system used by Regional Express has only 3-digit numbers for any flights from Sydney, including 2 daily to Broken Hill. If the ultimate destination is Adelaide then a 4-digit flight number beginning with a "4" to Adelaide from a connecting point can happen. If the ultimate destination is Melbourne then a 4-digit flight number beginning with a "3" to Melbourne from a connecting point can happen. There are some 4-digit flight numbers beginning with a "5" elsewhere in the Regional Express system, but no 4-digit flight numbers beginning with a "9". I conclude that Dr. Rox is correct. We should see soon enough.
:gj:
:lol3:
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mds1978,
You do indeed get the last laugh. Although there are several scheduled flights between Sydney and Broken Hill, most connecting in Dubbo, the actual flights taken by AR18 teams were a charter at 605am and another charter at 630am. Here is the regular schedule:
Rex - Regional Express Airlines
Flight 878 SF3
More Information Sydney (SYD)
Broken Hill (BHQ) 06:20pm -23Nov, Wed
08:20pm -23Nov, Wed Nonstop
Coach
2hr 30min
Flight Duration : 2hr 30min Total Trip Time: 2hr 30min
$335
Rex - Regional Express Airlines
Flight 836 SF3
More Information Sydney (SYD)
Dubbo (DBO) 07:10pm -23Nov, Wed
08:20pm -23Nov, Wed Nonstop
Coach
1hr 10min
Connecting flight wait time 15 hours 10 minutes
Rex - Regional Express Airlines
Flight 862 SF3
More Information Dubbo (DBO)
Broken Hill (BHQ) 11:30am -24Nov, Thu
12:45pm -24Nov, Thu Nonstop
Coach
1hr 45min
Flight Duration : 2hr 55min Layover Time : 15hr 10min Total Trip Time: 18hr 05min
Rex - Regional Express Airlines
Flight 834 SF3
More Information Sydney (SYD)
Dubbo (DBO) 04:55pm -23Nov, Wed
06:05pm -23Nov, Wed Nonstop
Coach
1hr 10min
Connecting flight wait time 17 hours 25 minutes
Rex - Regional Express Airlines
Flight 862 SF3
More Information Dubbo (DBO)
Broken Hill (BHQ) 11:30am -24Nov, Thu
12:45pm -24Nov, Thu Nonstop
Coach
1hr 45min
Flight Duration : 2hr 55min Layover Time : 17hr 25min Total Trip Time: 20hr 20min
$335
[Total Incl. fees excl. taxes]
Rex - Regional Express Airlines
Flight 832 SF3
More Information Sydney (SYD)
Dubbo (DBO) 03:30pm -23Nov, Wed
04:40pm -23Nov, Wed Nonstop
Coach
1hr 10min
Connecting flight wait time 18 hours 50 minutes
Rex - Regional Express Airlines
Flight 862 SF3
More Information Dubbo (DBO)
Broken Hill (BHQ) 11:30am -24Nov, Thu
12:45pm -24Nov, Thu Nonstop
Coach
1hr 45min
Flight Duration : 2hr 55min Layover Time : 18hr 50min Total Trip Time: 21hr 45min
$335
[Total Incl. fees excl. taxes]
Rex - Regional Express Airlines
Flight 828 SF3
More Information Sydney (SYD)
Dubbo (DBO) 12:20pm -23Nov, Wed
01:30pm -23Nov, Wed Nonstop
Coach
1hr 10min
Connecting flight wait time 22 hours 0 minutes
Rex - Regional Express Airlines
Flight 862 SF3
More Information Dubbo (DBO)
Broken Hill (BHQ) 11:30am -24Nov, Thu
12:45pm -24Nov, Thu Nonstop
Coach
1hr 45min
Flight Duration : 2hr 55min Layover Time : 22hr 0min Total Trip Time: 24hr 55min
Rex - Regional Express Airlines
Flight 862 SF3
More Information Sydney (SYD)
Broken Hill (BHQ) 10:00am -23Nov, Wed
12:45pm -23Nov, Wed 1 Stop
Coach
3hr 15min
Flight Duration : 3hr 15min Total Trip Time: 3hr 15min
Rex - Regional Express Airlines
Flight 824 SF3
More Information Sydney (SYD)
Dubbo (DBO) 08:20am -23Nov, Wed
09:30am -23Nov, Wed Nonstop
Coach
1hr 10min
Rex - Regional Express Airlines
Flight 862 SF3
More Information Dubbo (DBO)
Broken Hill (BHQ) 11:30am -23Nov, Wed
12:45pm -23Nov, Wed Nonstop
Coach
1hr 45min
Flight Duration : 2hr 55min Layover Time : 2hr 0min Total Trip Time: 4hr 55min
Rex - Regional Express Airlines
Flight 822 SF3
More Information Sydney (SYD)
Dubbo (DBO) 06:30am -23Nov, Wed
07:40am -23Nov, Wed Nonstop
Coach
1hr 10min
Rex - Regional Express Airlines
Flight 862 SF3
More Information Dubbo (DBO)
Broken Hill (BHQ) 11:30am -23Nov, Wed
12:45pm -23Nov, Wed Nonstop
Coach
1hr 45min
Flight Duration : 2hr 55min Layover Time : 3hr 50min Total Trip Time: 6hr 45min
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Some research on train schedules from Hamburg to Cologne and Cologne to Brussels turns up some interesting nuggets.
From Hamburg to Cologne there is a huge hole in the schedule from 601pm until 1046pm departures. I am sure that World Race Productions planned on all teams having to wait until 1046pm. Even if they had made it to Cologne, they still would not have been getting ahead of the 644am train from Cologne to Brussels. And even if they somehow did the first task in Brussels would surely have caused a Hours of Operation delay.
The overnight travel was OK as long as teams were sleeping from Hamburg to Cologne, but then there was a 3 3/4 hour delay waiting for the train to Brussels. that ust have been uncomfortable in the middle of the night.
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This is what I had dug up yesterday:
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Chateau,
I realize that my information from the dBahn website may not properly reflect trains around July 6 or 7, but let's assume they do. Here are the available trains from Cologne to Brussels-Central:
Koln Hbf dep 06:44 1:58
Bruxelles-Central Tu, 29.11.11 arr 08:42
Köln Hbf
Tu, 29.11.11 dep 07:42 1:53 ICE, IC
Bruxelles-Central Tu, 29.11.11 arr 09:35
Köln Hbf
Tu, 29.11.11 dep 08:44 2:02
Bruxelles-Central Tu, 29.11.11 arr 10:46
Hourly trains to start arriving relatively early in the business day is what I find typical of all German rail main lines. Translated, that means I expect that your leaving out the earlier 644am train is incorrect unless you have some way of establishing what that schedule was in early July (it is very probably the same as now).
The dBahn website also listed the change of trains in Cologne between Hamburg and Brussels to be possible with the 1046pm connecting to the 644am train.
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The DB Bahn website seems reliable for dates in the past. It tells you it's in the past when it is. By changing the date the outcome varies according to what the schedule were then. Here's the website (there is an English version but I couldn't find it this time):
http://www.bahn.de/p/view/index.shtml
I tried to find the 6:44 am train and it does not seem to start running until on/after November 5th. I don't think it was available on July 6th.
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The telecast of AR19, ep. 11 confirms that the route is via Amsterdam to Panama City's Tocumen Airport. There is one flight per day, KL757 nonstop. Since I am not sure whether this leg started on July 7 or 8, that flight timing was:
7/7 1335 1713
7/8 1435 1804
On either day, sunset was at 1842.
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Trains on the Eurail system go from Brussels to Amsterdam's Schiphol Airport directly in 1 hour 38 minutes. The schedule is for departures from Brussels Central station at 50 after each hour (except not 1250p) and arrival at 28 after the 2nd following hour. To make scheduled international flight, teams would have to leave Brussels by probably 850am. Based on leaving in the dark, they clearly had a lot of extra time.
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I think it is interesting to see which train teams were probably on from Brussels to Schiphol Airport southwest of Amsterdam. Sunrise statistics indicate sunrise for July 8 at 538am and I believe from the Extra Videos that it was still slightly before sunrise. That translates into a 550am train and a 728am arrival at AMS. It's possible that not all teams were on that, but at worst they would be one hour behind and at 828am arrival still about 5 hours before departure to Panama City.
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I think it is interesting to see which train teams were probably on from Brussels to Schiphol Airport southwest of Amsterdam. Sunrise statistics indicate sunrise for July 8 at 538am and I believe from the Extra Videos that it was still slightly before sunrise. That translates into a 550am train and a 728am arrival at AMS. It's possible that not all teams were on that, but at worst they would be one hour behind and at 828am arrival still about 5 hours before departure to Panama City.
It does not have to mean anything, but the episode includes a brief shot of the departure board at the Brussels train station. Here we see an 8:50 train to Amsterdam. So I would say the odds are fairly good that this is the train they take.
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This may already exist somewhere on this thread, but just in case it doesn't here is the flight information from Panama City to Atlanta:
DL392 0826 1327