AMAZING RACE 36 (originally 35) **LIVE SPOILERS** (Members Only) > AMAZING RACE RACE 35 (originally run as 36)
TAR 35 (formerly called 36): Bitch, Moan & Squeal Here! *POSSIBLE SPOILERS!*
Brannockdevice:
--- Quote from: kyleisalive on September 17, 2023, 04:13:21 PM ---
--- Quote from: Brannockdevice on September 17, 2023, 01:36:47 PM ---
--- Quote from: kyleisalive on September 17, 2023, 12:31:38 AM ---
--- Quote from: Brannockdevice on September 16, 2023, 11:53:14 PM ---
--- Quote from: kyleisalive on September 16, 2023, 11:22:33 PM ---Stacking the deck to aim for a FF win instead of letting it happen on its own doesn't demonstrate strength and doesn't support women. There's no equality to setting things up differently to accommodate specific genders over others. FF teams should win on normal, balanced seasons. And more than that, if a FF team doesn't win, it's a lousy take that the season is lesser because literally anyone else won on their own merit.
When Will and James won TAR32, people on these forums complained that they shouldn't have. IMO that's an idiotic take no matter what way you cut it. TAR has had winners of countless backgrounds and relationship types. If someone can't enjoy the show because it doesn't unfold the way that they don't want it to, I'd suggest creating a fan-fiction instead. Or watch something scripted. You're not going to get what you want from this show every time. Life's not fair; womp womp.
--- End quote ---
Correct, life is not fair. And that’s exactly the point of all this - to make it fair.
--- End quote ---
That's a bit absurd in my opinion. Redressing a perceived imbalance by putting other people aside to do it isn't equality; it isn't feminist; it isn't helpful for fairness. It enforces the idea that the only way women can win on this show is if you have to give them extra help, only reinforcing that they can't do it themselves.
What you're suggesting isn't doing what you think it's doing. It insists that women need to be coddled to victory.
--- End quote ---
"Redressing a perceived imbalance by putting other people aside to do it isn't equality" so by this very logic, the race should be 100% physical, and only be run by the strongest, most physical and athletic teams. After all, having puzzles or memory challenges would be unfair to jocks because they aren't smart. In fact, let's no longer cast elderly couples. Dave and Margaretta, Peggy and Claire and Bill and Cathi should have never been cast because they aren't physical. Maybe we should change the race so that it is one episode only and whoever can lift the heaviest boulder can win the one million dollars.
--- End quote ---
I think you’re reading what I’m saying and taking the opposite message. I’m saying throw *anyone* in, but don’t stack the tasks to align more with typically-female-strong activities and don’t stack the cast with women to push a FF win. Doing that would imply women need production meddling to win and can’t do it on their own merit. And that is problematic.
--- End quote ---
I’m curious if you feel the same way about the 50% BIPOC rule. If that’s fair game then why not have 50% women?
kyleisalive:
I'm not sure I've ever brought up the BIPOC rule. Frankly, I never really had a take on it. I'm all for inclusivity on the show, but the rule plays a really weird game if you have to abide by hard-and-fast, locked-in teams every race. If you're required to have 4 black teams, 4 latinx teams, 4 white teams, and now all of those also have to have one FF team, one MM team, and two MF teams every race, then sure, I guess? It's still exclusionist to do something like that and opens the door to tokenism, which I think is very problematic. Now you can set your watch to knowing that you can root for the token white FF team that's mandated to be on the show. Hooray?
What I do support is CBS' effort to diversify casts. The U.S. population is ~60% white. Close to ~20% of the U.S. is Hispanic. ~12% of the U.S. is black. It's a noble effort to find a balance in reality TV casting and it's a direction they should strive for, but if CBS wanted a balance reflective of the actual U.S. population as it is today, then there wouldn't be a balance (if that makes sense). You would have six or seven white teams; two Hispanic teams, and one or two black teams.
More importantly, to me, is that the show is good. I'll watch anyone who goes on the show; I trust the editors/producers to tell a compelling story no matter the players' backgrounds. I'm not watching the show for divisions of races or genders because in my day-to-day I'm not really putting these in the forefront. We should be normalizing a space where we're celebratory of people instead of constantly compensating (though I do agree we should be supportive of communities that are marginalized). As I said in my past messages (that you've cascaded there), I'm not for pressing on the scale to force a win. There is no celebration of diversity by outweighing female players. Doing that only has viewers saying "well of course women were going to win-- CBS/TAR minimized the amount of men this season." You instantly call the validity of the teams' successes into question the second you do that.
Let people win on their own merits. Throw anyone into the race-- that goes for ages, genders, races, orientations-- since that mixing pot is part of the joy of the show. Just don't force it. Because that disingenuousness diminishes any attempt at balance.
georgiapeach:
--- Quote from: kyleisalive on September 21, 2023, 10:26:36 AM ---I'm not sure I've ever brought up the BIPOC rule. Frankly, I never really had a take on it. I'm all for inclusivity on the show, but the rule plays a really weird game if you have to abide by hard-and-fast, locked-in teams every race. If you're required to have 4 black teams, 4 latinx teams, 4 white teams, and now all of those also have to have one FF team, one MM team, and two MF teams every race, then sure, I guess? It's still exclusionist to do something like that and opens the door to tokenism, which I think is very problematic. Now you can set your watch to knowing that you can root for the token white FF team that's mandated to be on the show. Hooray?
What I do support is CBS' effort to diversify casts. The U.S. population is ~60% white. Close to ~20% of the U.S. is Hispanic. ~12% of the U.S. is black. It's a noble effort to find a balance in reality TV casting and it's a direction they should strive for, but if CBS wanted a balance reflective of the actual U.S. population as it is today, then there wouldn't be a balance (if that makes sense). You would have six or seven white teams; two Hispanic teams, and one or two black teams.
More importantly, to me, is that the show is good. I'll watch anyone who goes on the show; I trust the editors/producers to tell a compelling story no matter the players' backgrounds. I'm not watching the show for divisions of races or genders because in my day-to-day I'm not really putting these in the forefront. We should be normalizing a space where we're celebratory of people instead of constantly compensating (though I do agree we should be supportive of communities that are marginalized). As I said in my past messages (that you've cascaded there), I'm not for pressing on the scale to force a win. There is no celebration of diversity by outweighing female players. Doing that only has viewers saying "well of course women were going to win-- CBS/TAR minimized the amount of men this season." You instantly call the validity of the teams' successes into question the second you do that.
Let people win on their own merits. Throw anyone into the race-- that goes for ages, genders, races, orientations-- since that mixing pot is part of the joy of the show. Just don't force it. Because that disingenuousness diminishes any attempt at balance.
--- End quote ---
Absolutely beautifully put. Agree 1000%. Thank you a million Kyle!! :thankyou:
Brannockdevice:
--- Quote from: kyleisalive on September 21, 2023, 10:26:36 AM ---I'm not sure I've ever brought up the BIPOC rule. Frankly, I never really had a take on it. I'm all for inclusivity on the show, but the rule plays a really weird game if you have to abide by hard-and-fast, locked-in teams every race. If you're required to have 4 black teams, 4 latinx teams, 4 white teams, and now all of those also have to have one FF team, one MM team, and two MF teams every race, then sure, I guess? It's still exclusionist to do something like that and opens the door to tokenism, which I think is very problematic. Now you can set your watch to knowing that you can root for the token white FF team that's mandated to be on the show. Hooray?
What I do support is CBS' effort to diversify casts. The U.S. population is ~60% white. Close to ~20% of the U.S. is Hispanic. ~12% of the U.S. is black. It's a noble effort to find a balance in reality TV casting and it's a direction they should strive for, but if CBS wanted a balance reflective of the actual U.S. population as it is today, then there wouldn't be a balance (if that makes sense). You would have six or seven white teams; two Hispanic teams, and one or two black teams.
More importantly, to me, is that the show is good. I'll watch anyone who goes on the show; I trust the editors/producers to tell a compelling story no matter the players' backgrounds. I'm not watching the show for divisions of races or genders because in my day-to-day I'm not really putting these in the forefront. We should be normalizing a space where we're celebratory of people instead of constantly compensating (though I do agree we should be supportive of communities that are marginalized). As I said in my past messages (that you've cascaded there), I'm not for pressing on the scale to force a win. There is no celebration of diversity by outweighing female players. Doing that only has viewers saying "well of course women were going to win-- CBS/TAR minimized the amount of men this season." You instantly call the validity of the teams' successes into question the second you do that.
Let people win on their own merits. Throw anyone into the race-- that goes for ages, genders, races, orientations-- since that mixing pot is part of the joy of the show. Just don't force it. Because that disingenuousness diminishes any attempt at balance.
--- End quote ---
It’s clear we have substantially different opinions that cannot be reconciled. I’m not going to be interacting further.
See you guys next season.
ianthebalance:
Best way to sum this up imo: there’s a difference between equal opportunity and equal outcome. We can argue that the show isn’t creating equal opportunity for the female contestants and minorities but even if everything is fully equal in team selection, task variance, etc; there shouldn’t and won’t be any guarantee of any specific type of team winning
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