Topic: RFF TAR 16 pick-em game

[chill_sd]

So you are saying that they were allowed to check in, they just chose not to?

[gingerman28]

So you are saying that they were allowed to check in, they just chose not to?

Never said that they were allowed toa check in.  Phil just thought that they had completed the detour as Brandy and Carol had and that they were coming to the mat also. After that he did not say a single word about checking in, or being allowed to check, in not being allowed to check in.  They realized their own mistake and went back up the hill and into their car to again search for the detour site.

[chill_sd]

Here's the original question:

5 points - Do any teams get a penalty or not allowed to check in at the Pit Stop when they first arrive?
0 points - 7 people answered this question - Yes
0 points - 17 people answered this question - No

We know the answer to the first part, "Do any teams get a penalty?" is NO.  No need to belabor this point or talk about penalties at all.

The second part, "or not allowed to check in at the Pit Stop when they first arrive?" does not mention Phil,  or the mat.

So we have to determine, in the case of Brent & Caite, when did "they first arrive" at the "Pit Stop."  My contention is that they first arrived at the Pit Stop just behind Carol and Brandy, before they had actually completed the leg.

Now we must determine if they were "not allowed to check in."  So we ask the question, "Were they allowed to check in at that time?"  The answer is clearly, "No, they were not allowed to check in at that time."  It doesn't matter if Phil said anything, the fact is nobody allowed them to check in.

BTW, I picked "No" so I'm not saying this because I want the points, it's just clearly the right answer.

[gingerman28]

Here's the original question:

5 points - Do any teams get a penalty or not allowed to check in at the Pit Stop when they first arrive?
0 points - 7 people answered this question - Yes
0 points - 17 people answered this question - No

We know the answer to the first part, "Do any teams get a penalty?" is NO.  No need to belabor this point or talk about penalties at all.

The second part, "or not allowed to check in at the Pit Stop when they first arrive?" does not mention Phil,  or the mat.

So we have to determine, in the case of Brent & Caite, when did "they first arrive" at the "Pit Stop."  My contention is that they first arrived at the Pit Stop just behind Carol and Brandy, before they had actually completed the leg.

Now we must determine if they were "not allowed to check in."  So we ask the question, "Were they allowed to check in at that time?"  The answer is clearly, "No, they were not allowed to check in at that time."  It doesn't matter if Phil said anything, the fact is nobody allowed them to check in.

BTW, I picked "No" so I'm not saying this because I want the points, it's just clearly the right answer.

OK, but who made the determination that they were "not allowed to check in"?  Who didn't allow them? Who stopped them from checking in? They never asked to be checked in.  So nobody or nothing else determined that they were "not allowed" to check in.  They never tried to check in and so were never "not allowed to" since they never tried.

[chill_sd]

I'm under the impression that in the English language, you can be 'allowed' to do something or 'not allowed' to do something.  Are you saying that there is a third option between 'allowed' and 'not allowed?'

In any case, I'm willing to let MsWood make the decision.

[walkingpneumonia]

Here's the original question:

5 points - Do any teams get a penalty or not allowed to check in at the Pit Stop when they first arrive?
0 points - 7 people answered this question - Yes
0 points - 17 people answered this question - No

We know the answer to the first part, "Do any teams get a penalty?" is NO.  No need to belabor this point or talk about penalties at all.

The second part, "or not allowed to check in at the Pit Stop when they first arrive?" does not mention Phil,  or the mat.

So we have to determine, in the case of Brent & Caite, when did "they first arrive" at the "Pit Stop."  My contention is that they first arrived at the Pit Stop just behind Carol and Brandy, before they had actually completed the leg.

Now we must determine if they were "not allowed to check in."  So we ask the question, "Were they allowed to check in at that time?"  The answer is clearly, "No, they were not allowed to check in at that time."  It doesn't matter if Phil said anything, the fact is nobody allowed them to check in.

BTW, I picked "No" so I'm not saying this because I want the points, it's just clearly the right answer.

OK, but who made the determination that they were "not allowed to check in"?  Who didn't allow them? Who stopped them from checking in? They never asked to be checked in.  So nobody or nothing else determined that they were "not allowed" to check in.  They never tried to check in and so were never "not allowed to" since they never tried.

It is a TAR rule that you are "not allowed" to check in unless you have received the clue that directs you to the Pit Stop.
If that rule was not in place Brent and Caite could have checked in when they arrived at the Pit Stop. So it is the rule that did not "allow" them to check in...

[Hooky]

So you are saying that they were allowed to check in, they just chose not to?

Never said that they were allowed toa check in.  Phil just thought that they had completed the detour as Brandy and Carol had and that they were coming to the mat also. After that he did not say a single word about checking in, or being allowed to check, in not being allowed to check in.  They realized their own mistake and went back up the hill and into their car to again search for the detour site.

Phil already knew that they had not completed the Detour. He just didn't have time to officially tell them to go back. They weren't allowed to check in at that time, regardless of whether anyone told them so. I think the correct answer should be "yes". It asks if a team either 1) got a penalty or 2) were not allowed to check in a the Pit Stop when they first arrived. Since the second option did in fact occur and it's an "Or" question, the answer should be yes. They were not allowed to check in at that point.

[georgiapeach]

We have definitely beat this horsie to death...clearly mswood will get the call on this one. I look at the intention of the question, which in my mind was very clearly intended to ask if the team either got a penalty or another thing (like Justin/Zev losing their passport...not a penalty but couldn't check in). I really do not see this as a question foscused on the word allowed, but instead on the penalty or inability to check in aspect. But YMMMV, so I vote we let mswood decide. I vote toss it.

Sheesh...still haven't had time to rewatch!!

[Coutzy]

Brent and Caite is very dicey. They did step on the mat, and then they realised their mistake before Phil informed them.

imo, they were never disallowed the check in, because Phil normally says "You are the x team to arrive... however, for reason z you have received a penalty/must go back"

I agree with Coutzy. I re-watched the part and they did step on the mat, they probably saw Carol and Brandy's detour clue and realized that they didn't have one and then went back without being told to do so. I personally believe that it shouldn't be counted as a penalty or not allowed to check in because they went through the own accord and told by someone else.

If you look carefully (and I have rerun that scene several times frame by frame) Brent and Caite never actually stepped on the mat after Phil told them to come on down (he said nothing about getting on the mat with Brandy and Carol) When Brent turns to leave after realizing that they did not have a Detour clue (Brandy, by the way, does not have a detour clue in her hand, she has the route info clue (blue) telling them to drive to the pit stop)_and as the camera pulls back you can see that his foot is on the grass above the mat.  After Phil tells them to come on down, nothing more is said by anyone except Brent who says they do not have the Detour clue so must go back, which the do on their own and wall back up the hill.

So there is no penalty given.  And nothing is said or done related to not ALLOWING Brent and Caite to check in at the pit stop.

So the correct answer to this question, in my opinion, is a resounding NO.

Now I think we have whipped this poor dog of a question to death, and we should leave it in the hands of the capable MSwood to make the final call

If they never stepped on the mat, then I would call that never arrived, strictly speaking.

[walkingpneumonia]

Brent and Caite is very dicey. They did step on the mat, and then they realised their mistake before Phil informed them.

imo, they were never disallowed the check in, because Phil normally says "You are the x team to arrive... however, for reason z you have received a penalty/must go back"

I agree with Coutzy. I re-watched the part and they did step on the mat, they probably saw Carol and Brandy's detour clue and realized that they didn't have one and then went back without being told to do so. I personally believe that it shouldn't be counted as a penalty or not allowed to check in because they went through the own accord and told by someone else.

If you look carefully (and I have rerun that scene several times frame by frame) Brent and Caite never actually stepped on the mat after Phil told them to come on down (he said nothing about getting on the mat with Brandy and Carol) When Brent turns to leave after realizing that they did not have a Detour clue (Brandy, by the way, does not have a detour clue in her hand, she has the route info clue (blue) telling them to drive to the pit stop)_and as the camera pulls back you can see that his foot is on the grass above the mat.  After Phil tells them to come on down, nothing more is said by anyone except Brent who says they do not have the Detour clue so must go back, which the do on their own and wall back up the hill.

So there is no penalty given.  And nothing is said or done related to not ALLOWING Brent and Caite to check in at the pit stop.

So the correct answer to this question, in my opinion, is a resounding NO.

Now I think we have whipped this poor dog of a question to death, and we should leave it in the hands of the capable MSwood to make the final call

If they never stepped on the mat, then I would call that never arrived, strictly speaking.

The question doesn't mention the mat, it says the Pit Stop - which is L'ORRCA.
BTW - the editor monkeys misspelled the name of the Pit Stop - the real name is L'ORCCA... sigh...
http://www.orcca.asso.fr/fr/

[Dånooky]

Here's the original question:

5 points - Do any teams get a penalty or not allowed to check in at the Pit Stop when they first arrive?
0 points - 7 people answered this question - Yes
0 points - 17 people answered this question - No

We know the answer to the first part, "Do any teams get a penalty?" is NO.  No need to belabor this point or talk about penalties at all.

The second part, "or not allowed to check in at the Pit Stop when they first arrive?" does not mention Phil,  or the mat.

So we have to determine, in the case of Brent & Caite, when did "they first arrive" at the "Pit Stop."  My contention is that they first arrived at the Pit Stop just behind Carol and Brandy, before they had actually completed the leg.

Now we must determine if they were "not allowed to check in."  So we ask the question, "Were they allowed to check in at that time?"  The answer is clearly, "No, they were not allowed to check in at that time."  It doesn't matter if Phil said anything, the fact is nobody allowed them to check in.

BTW, I picked "No" so I'm not saying this because I want the points, it's just clearly the right answer.

OK, but who made the determination that they were "not allowed to check in"?  Who didn't allow them? Who stopped them from checking in? They never asked to be checked in.  So nobody or nothing else determined that they were "not allowed" to check in.  They never tried to check in and so were never "not allowed to" since they never tried.

It is a TAR rule that you are "not allowed" to check in unless you have received the clue that directs you to the Pit Stop.
If that rule was not in place Brent and Caite could have checked in when they arrived at the Pit Stop. So it is the rule that did not "allow" them to check in...

I concur with wp. The first time Brent & Caite arrived to the Pit Stop, they weren't able to check in because of race rules.

[Coutzy]

Here's the original question:

5 points - Do any teams get a penalty or not allowed to check in at the Pit Stop when they first arrive?
0 points - 7 people answered this question - Yes
0 points - 17 people answered this question - No

We know the answer to the first part, "Do any teams get a penalty?" is NO.  No need to belabor this point or talk about penalties at all.

The second part, "or not allowed to check in at the Pit Stop when they first arrive?" does not mention Phil,  or the mat.

So we have to determine, in the case of Brent & Caite, when did "they first arrive" at the "Pit Stop."  My contention is that they first arrived at the Pit Stop just behind Carol and Brandy, before they had actually completed the leg.

Now we must determine if they were "not allowed to check in."  So we ask the question, "Were they allowed to check in at that time?"  The answer is clearly, "No, they were not allowed to check in at that time."  It doesn't matter if Phil said anything, the fact is nobody allowed them to check in.

BTW, I picked "No" so I'm not saying this because I want the points, it's just clearly the right answer.

OK, but who made the determination that they were "not allowed to check in"?  Who didn't allow them? Who stopped them from checking in? They never asked to be checked in.  So nobody or nothing else determined that they were "not allowed" to check in.  They never tried to check in and so were never "not allowed to" since they never tried.

It is a TAR rule that you are "not allowed" to check in unless you have received the clue that directs you to the Pit Stop.
If that rule was not in place Brent and Caite could have checked in when they arrived at the Pit Stop. So it is the rule that did not "allow" them to check in...

I concur with wp. The first time Brent & Caite arrived to the Pit Stop, they weren't able to check in because of race rules.

If that is the case, then I think we should go back to past seasons and redo the scores for all the times teams have been edged out in a foot race.

If Ray and Deana arrived at the Pit Stop before Brian and Greg (Which they did, by that logic) Why did they get eliminated?

[Dånooky]

If that is the case, then I think we should go back to past seasons and redo the scores for all the times teams have been edged out in a foot race.

If Ray and Deana arrived at the Pit Stop before Brian and Greg (Which they did, by that logic) Why did they get eliminated?

My point is that to be allowed to check in you must have retrieved all the clues in a leg, or receive a clue that tells you specifically to go to the Pit Stop. The only difference here is that Phil did not state the obvious (on camera) like on last leg.

Brent & Caite arrived at L'Orrca behind Carol 6 Brandy the first time. At that time they weren't allowed (by the rules) to check-in because they didn't meet the requirements needed to check-in

[Coutzy]

If that is the case, then I think we should go back to past seasons and redo the scores for all the times teams have been edged out in a foot race.

If Ray and Deana arrived at the Pit Stop before Brian and Greg (Which they did, by that logic) Why did they get eliminated?

My point is that to be allowed to check in you must have retrieved all the clues in a leg, or receive a clue that tells you specifically to go to the Pit Stop. The only difference here is that Phil did not state the obvious (on camera) like on last leg.

Brent & Caite arrived at L'Orrca behind Carol 6 Brandy the first time. At that time they weren't allowed (by the rules) to check-in because they didn't meet the requirements needed to check-in

But my point is that by not stepping on the mat, they never arrived at the Pit Stop. It all depends on how you define Pit Stop. I define it as the mat, because that is the point where the leg ends, not the gates to L'orcca.

[Dånooky]

If that is the case, then I think we should go back to past seasons and redo the scores for all the times teams have been edged out in a foot race.

If Ray and Deana arrived at the Pit Stop before Brian and Greg (Which they did, by that logic) Why did they get eliminated?

My point is that to be allowed to check in you must have retrieved all the clues in a leg, or receive a clue that tells you specifically to go to the Pit Stop. The only difference here is that Phil did not state the obvious (on camera) like on last leg.

Brent & Caite arrived at L'Orrca behind Carol 6 Brandy the first time. At that time they weren't allowed (by the rules) to check-in because they didn't meet the requirements needed to check-in

But my point is that by not stepping on the mat, they never arrived at the Pit Stop. It all depends on how you define Pit Stop. I define it as the mat, because that is the point where the leg ends, not the gates to L'orcca.

IMO, the Pit Stop is not limited to the Mat. But I guess right now it's just up to how mswood interprets Pit Stop.

[gingerman28]

One last, and I mean last, note:  Brent and Caite never tried to check in when they came down the hill and saw Brandy and Carol and Phil by the TAR mat.  Since they never tried to check in, the "allow" part of the question does not apply.

[Jobby]

I say just give me the results.

[Hooky]

I say just give me the results.

Yes, please.

[mswood]

I am checking a couple of seasons to make my judgment on this issue. 

[mswood]

Based on the placement of Carol & Brandy and what part of the Mat they are on, and then seeing how close Brent & Caite are in relationship to the rest of the mat, as well as Phil's come on in here (which is what he says to the 2nd third or even 4th group of racer to get them on the mat to check them in, I have to say that I count Brent & Caite as being on the mat.  Look at season 12 episode 3, to see 4 teams on the mat, and you can see the placement of bodies strongly suggest that Brent & Caite very well might be on the mat (and since we don't always see teams actually get their feet on the mat and still count it as being on the mat) its counting here.

Then are allowed, while we don't hear Phil state the Brent & Caite you are team number such, but... I am going with the answer of Yes that Brent & Caite aren't allowed to check in.

ANd I choose No, so no points for me damn it.

The rest will be graded in about 20 minutes, with new question in the hour following.

[mswood]

And just how are Jordan and Jeff being idiots?  For them they seem to be acting perfectly normal before we see the first team reach the roadblock.  Who is to make judgments such as this on what is normal and what is being an idiot?

G-Man I didn't address this, but I should have.

My use of (   )  aren't always consistent.  In some weeks (certainly in the last two seasons, I have used those to mock teams, and didn't mean for that to be part of the question, but lately more often I have used (   )  to refine the answer.

Because I am not always consistent I am going to award points to both.  I did intend the possible answer to be Jeff & Jordan speak. 

As such I am awarded you a point (like you need it) and will award the other answer as well in the game

[mswood]

Let the Blood Bath that was week #6, commence.  Ouch it wasn't pretty  not pretty at all.

We had 2, count them 2 fortunate souls who manage to scrape out 100 points or more this week.

For the first time, by himself (I assume him) we have.............
 
1.   chill_sd
110
 

But not by very damn much as following very closely in 2nd....

2.   DavidMV 
105

Then we have the rest of us miserable bastards.   


3.   Hooky
95

4.   Caelestor
95

5.   walkingpneumonia
90

6.   uycocoa
85

7.   She who must not be named
85

8.   Sailing
85

9.   G-Man
80

10.   kwando1313
80

11.   north09
80

12.   mswood
75

13.   jerseydude
75

14.   gator27
75

15.   serendipity
70

16.   Dawne
65

17.   joab  (wait who is this..........)
65

18.   baydogg
65

19.   Zacz
45

20.   jgrog
45

21.   Coutzy
45

22.   Sandra1991
40

23.   Rudiii
40

24.   MomCat
35

[mswood]

Which brings us to the overall leader board results.   

Week 1 - 6

Lets all get drunk with....

1.   chill_sd
660

And look at how close the top 5 are, its anyone's game (well obviously not mine)

2.   G-Man
650 +1 (for this week) = 651  Now is that anyway for us to treat are elders?

3.   Caelestor
640

4.   gator27
635  Are you going to let Chill do this!?!

5.   Hooky
630

6.   cruella de georgia
610

7.   walkingpneumonia
595 +1 (episode #3) = 596

8.   Sailing
570

9.   Zacz
525

10.   kwando1313
515

11.   Dawne
510

12.   mswood
505

13.   serendipity
490

14.   DavidMV
485

15.   baydogg
445

16.   uycocoa
440

17.   Coutzy
435 #2 (Episode #3, and Game Correction) = 437

18.   Sandra1991
425

19.   MomCat
420

20.   slpdx
375

21.   north09
375

22.   DavidJunior
345

23.   jerseydude
320

24.   Rudiii
255

25.   Snooky
245

26.   joab
230

27.   KenF
190

28.   redwings8831
125

29.   cdfe88
120

30.   jgrog
110

31.   zackattack308
85

32.   flamant
85

33.   Jetgabriel
80

34.   sses
65

[chill_sd]

I'm amazed.  I knew I made some lucky guesses, but first place again, WOW!.

The beer's on me 

[Hooky]

Last season it was just Peach I had to deal with. This time she has faded into the background and I have three new and more difficult threats to deal with.