Topic: A general Discussion on Spoilers

[Slowhatch]

Non-specific comments about spoiling were spreading all over the forum, so with Peach's permission I'll start a new thread.
This is not about particular seasons or racers or events. This is about the business of spoiling in general: how they are created and presented, what the boundaries are, changes over the seasons, etc.
I'll start it off with an essay from the Times a few days ago. Summary: you don't need spoiler bars around the fact that Darth is Luke's father, we know that. 

[Prophet]

What!?! he's actually Luke's father!? You ruined it for me. 

Anyway, this should be an interesting discussion. I think the number one answer against those who feel like that spoilers ruin the show is to not come to the spoiler boards.

[chill_sd]

Quote from the essay:

The conversation begins the moment a show airs on the East Coast, whether you are present or not,

So true.

And now with TAR Australia airing at something like 3am Pacific Time, I have to avoid that board altogether until Monday evening when I can get home and watch the episode.

[boston_jen]

And now with TAR Australia airing at something like 3am Pacific Time, I have to avoid that board altogether until Monday evening when I can get home and watch the episode.

I have been trying to figure out my own optimal level for spoiling regarding this series.  I read spoilers about where they are going, try to figure out the order of tasks and such, but I don't want to know racer placements until I get to watch the episode for myself.

So, I compulsively come to this site on Monday morning, but then avoid the Australia threads...

[Neobie]

I'm completely in support of spoiling all tasks/locations once the racers have passed through, but I suppose the one people care most about is team placement spoilers?

It used to be more fun when we could deduce where teams placed rather than having placements handed to us on a silver platter, sort of like the way we could figure out the first few boots of TAR: Australia based on preview caps and guessing where each team was. I'd say hiding the Final Three placement details (and revealing all other spoilers) would be a good compromise between having a complete boot-list and arbitrarily choosing which spoilers to show and which ones to hide. Keeps the large part of the "spoiling" in play and just having one single final mystery to keep the suspense going...

[walkingpneumonia]

Here is a great article written by Andy Dehnart for The Daily Beast where he talks about the lawsuit against Jim Early, who spoiled Survivor Seasons 19 and 20.
I'm linking to it here because I think it points out the precarious position TAR Detectives are in when spoiling.

Jim Early was sued by Mark Burnett's DJB Inc. for "misappropriation of trade secrets” and "tortious interference with contract" when he posted spoiler information he obtained from Russell Hantz on SurviorSucks.

This is one of the reasons I don't publicly post a lot of the spoiler information I dig up.
To be clear, I have no insider information from anyone at WRP, CBS or contestants former and current. Everything I know and infer is publicly accessible and there is no hacking or password guessing involved. But, to the technically disinclined, it may appear that I and others have insider information - which could lead to the same type of legal action against anyone here at RFF. Despite attempts to remain anonymous, I dread the day when the cops show up and seize my computer and hard drives.

I really enjoy digging up TAR spoilers and can't wait until they come to Toronto so I can follow them around like a paparazzi. I would never release any information (regardless of how it is obtained) that could harm or interfere with the show or lead to a mob scene at a filming location.
Its a cat and mouse game - TAR spoilers vs TPTB. But if the cat kills the mouse everyone loses. Oh, and the mouse has sharp teeth if it chooses to use them.

[Plaidmoon]

That's an interesting article and good food for thought. Thanks for posting the link to that, WP. I don't think anything we do here rises to the level of what Jim Early and Russell Hantz did to Survivor, but it's always possible that CBS and WRP could see it differently. One difference between Survivor and TAR is that Survivor is a closed set and TAR is frequently happening in public view. I think the two shows would have different expectations of secrecy. I certainly hope no one here is calling up contestants and asking for spoiler information. I've never seen any signs of that happening.

Like you, I enjoy finding information about each upcoming season, but don't want to do anything to hurt the show. Once or twice I have discovered a possible location ahead of filming and have sat on it, as I didn't want crowds to show up there and interfere. On at least one occasion I can think of I successfully convinced someone to take down similar location information for a day or two until the filming had occurred. There is a line that shouldn't be crossed with spoilers and I think we stay on the correct side of that line the vast majority of the time.

[Neobie]

I think these are the two conditions most people would agree upon regarding withholding spoiler information:

1) When posting spoiler information obtained from production that might result in lawsuits or someone losing his job. That's just bad karma. (We got someone fired over TAR 13... Although that spoiler itself was awesome.)

2) When posting spoiler information before racers finish that part of the course, which might result in a billion spectators trying to interfere with filming and production. After the racers pass through, spoilers are totally fair game, though.

So I guess the biggest dispute here is how much final placement results should be revealed? My personal opinion is everything up until the Final Three, but of course everyone would have a different opinion on this...

[Prophet]

I think you sum it up well Neobie. What I get from a lot of people is that the final three should be made available to those who want to know it, if someone does know it. I don't know that I agree with that completely but I see some logic in it.

I certainly hope no one here would face legal action but I think we will be fine if we follow Neobie's two guidelines.

On a sidenote, I see absolutely no reason to withhold any location spoilers once the race has run it's course.

[theschnauzers]

The problem with that Survivor/Russell Hantz situation is that the source was Russell Hantz, and he had to sign a confidentiality and non-disclosure agreement as a condition of being cast or each season.
Anyone serving as a conduit for Russell's information would therefore shared liability for violation of the agreements Russell signed, and that's why Burnett sued.

If the information has come solely from sources who have not signed any confidentiality and non-disclosure agreement, such as bystanders who recognize the identity of a contestant or recognize the tell-tale signs of the production crew of a particular show, that is not a violation of any contract. (Thus, adding two and two to get four isn't a violation where both of the 2's came independently of the cast and crew, or where the observer figures out that the correct information wasn't what they were told, or they just overhear or see information in possession of the cast or crew.)

And when people sign waiver to use their images in a show (i.e., locals) I'll bet that there no non-disclosure or confidentiality agreement in the waiver. There's no consideration for it (i.e., the bystander isn't being paid for use of their image in the event he editors put it in. But an 'extra"  used for a task is an employee or contractor of the show, and thus, those arrangements can have nondisclosure-confidentiality agreements.

So as far as lawsuits are concerned there has to be a contractual agreement that includes a confidentiality-nondisclosure agreement. Otherwise, there is no basis for a lawsuit.

The real issue is being sure that a source isn't bound by such agreements; when they are using the information before it's aired or released by CBS then becomes a problem.

That should just about cover the legal part of it.

As to my own attitudes about spoilers -- I've found it doesn't tend to distract my interest.  Even if I 'm aware of team placements, that alone doesn't tell you how or why a team was first, last, or in between. Even the Sydney leg of TAR 18, as well spoiled as it was, didn't tell is everything, such as why the Cowboys fell so far behind reaching Biondi Beach. We didn't actually learn the story until the episode aired.

[apskip]

I see absolutely no reason to withhold any location spoilers once the race has run it's course.

I totally disagree with respect to finales only. I find Peach's approach of protecting the endings of Amazing Race finales the correct one and we will enjoy some very interesting information once AR19's finale is telecast in early December.

[Prophet]

And when people sign waiver to use their images in a show (i.e., locals) I'll bet that there no non-disclosure or confidentiality agreement in the waiver. There's no consideration for it (i.e., the bystander isn't being paid for use of their image in the event he editors put it in. But an 'extra"  used for a task is an employee or contractor of the show, and thus, those arrangements can have nondisclosure-confidentiality agreements.

I wonder if taxi drivers count towards employees of the show. They are being paid with money supplied like WRP. I have always thought that those agreements were the reason why we don't see more tweets, etc. from cabbies.

[Slowhatch]

Spoilers: the science.