Author Topic: Non-Elimination Legs  (Read 24267 times)

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Offline DeafRacer

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Non-Elimination Legs
« on: March 12, 2010, 03:57:42 PM »
Some people are driving me nuts about Non-Elimination Legs!

Some of you thinks producers just throw non-elimination in order to save their "favorite team" when they come in the last place. Why do you guys think that?


Offline mswood

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Re: Non-Elimination Legs
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2010, 04:21:51 PM »
Because they are crazy Luke.  I honestly think they might have changed an non elimination point in All Stars, but its just a gut reaction.  But that certainly wasn't because who it was racing, but how far another team was behind and how the non elimination occurred later.



Offline chill_sd

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Re: Non-Elimination Legs
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2010, 04:22:07 PM »
I think it's just wishful thinking, Luke.  Like some people think the "Lasso a Steer" was put in so the cowboys would have success.  Or the "Counting Chips" was supposed to help Maria and Tiffany last season.

Maybe instead of Chinese Calligraphy they should have had an ASL challenge in your season?

We all pull for our favorite teams, and want to complain when it looks like someone gets special treatment, even when we know they don't.

(By the way, I always thought they should have let you have the opportunity to hang glide, even though the winds weren't too cooperative that day.)

Offline Hooky

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Re: Non-Elimination Legs
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2010, 05:41:38 PM »
Some people are driving me nuts about Non-Elimination Legs!

Some of you thinks producers just throw non-elimination in order to save their "favorite team" when they come in the last place. Why do you guys think that?


Why do I think that? Because it happens more often than not. It may not be true, but it happens enough for it to look suspicious.

I honestly wonder how you can look at these "coincidences" without at least a degree of suspicion. Mostly I believe that it is coincidence, but the more often it happens, the more it becomes a possibility.
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Offline theschnauzers

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Re: Non-Elimination Legs
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2010, 05:56:21 PM »
I am one of those who does not believe NELs are switched around once filming starts/  The only exception I've ever heard of what the TAR 6 leg in Hungary, and that was due to local laws that prohibited the overnight stay TPTB had planned, so they improvised the original uberleg. (Still a non-elimination, but allowed them to use the cafe as a "rest point.")

I recall when this issue first came up in TAR 3 (IIRC, Flo and Zach saved by two NELs in a row) it was conveyed that the producer execute an affidavit before filming start listing the race course and the planned tasks, as well as alternates leg in case of an emergency.

From what I've heard over the years the only leg that has ever been switched was TAR 8 that was supposed to go to Belize (one of several legs hampered by hurricanes that season that required adjustments as opposed to switching legs completely) and the filming schedule has had to be changed a few times, but nothing that would change which legs were NELs or elimination points.

I've yet to hear anything from a team or from T{TB that ever pointed to a switching of NEL legs once filming started.
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Offline apskip

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Re: Non-Elimination Legs
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2010, 07:50:35 PM »
Because they are crazy Luke.  I honestly think they might have changed an non elimination point in All Stars, but its just a gut reaction.  But that certainly wasn't because who it was racing, but how far another team was behind and how the non elimination occurred later.

theschnauzers, do you believe that the pit stop for the East Africa leg of AR11 (All-Stars) was supposed to be in Stone Town, Zanzibar Island? I don't, as a lot of evidence points to World Race Productions manipulation that leg to try to get the race into a less-spread-out configuration. That included moving the pit stop from Arusha, Tanzania, where it was originally supposed to be to
Stone Town. There is no question that they arbitrarily changed the dhow sailing times from Dar Es Salaam to Zanzibar Island to claim much more storm-related delays than were necessary.

Offline mswood

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Re: Non-Elimination Legs
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2010, 07:55:10 PM »
Apskip

What I don't understand is why they gave a reason, instead just an Hours of Operation.  It would have been easy cost literally very little, and been something that the race has often used to bunch teams together after a large point of separation. 

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Re: Non-Elimination Legs
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2010, 08:34:02 PM »
If TAR Producers and TWRP do have fave (and may have made an instant NEL), then why are Charla and Mirna AND the Gaghan Family eliminated? Clearly, NEL legs are planned WAAAAYYY before the race starts, but with a few exceptions like in TAR11. However, now that NEL penalties are made into Speed Bumps instead of the giving off money or the 30-minute penalty, the producers cannot easily make a leg an NEL one based on their discretion because they must plan of a speed bump next leg.

But if the producers have planned alternate speed bumps in every leg....   :(
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Offline theschnauzers

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Re: Non-Elimination Legs
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2010, 09:38:40 PM »
Quote
theschnauzers, do you believe that the pit stop for the East Africa leg of AR11 (All-Stars) was supposed to be in Stone Town, Zanzibar Island?

IIRC, Phil said in a TV Guide interview that they got word fairly late in the leg that for safety reasons teams weren't going to make the originally planned pit stop without a much longer delay, and they moved it at the last minute. Moving the pit stop is a different issue than whether a leg being changed to NEL or vice versa. Regarding the boat to Zanzibar Island, I've always felt that the local company being used for the boat rides weren't ready that early, and I remember checking Weather Underground and finding that there was a tropical cyclone offshore about that time, and that the ocean conditions were quite choppy and weren't necessarily favorable for a boat ride then either. As it was, several of the teams had sea-sickness problems the next day or so when teams did head to Zanzibar Island. The East Africa legs of TAR 11 were a scheduling mess between the Hajj period travel and the offshore conditions, but other 24 hour leads have been lost in the past (Frank and Margarita from the Netherlands to India being the best example, Colin and Christie in Egypt being another.)
« Last Edit: March 14, 2010, 03:46:31 AM by theschnauzers »
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Offline mswood

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Re: Non-Elimination Legs
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2010, 09:43:34 PM »
I never did the research on the offshore weather, but they had a fairly recent death (on those type of vessels not long before the race).  And as someone who has worked on a fishing boat in off the coast of Alaska, I can tell you the times the sky looked clear from Harbor and later that day finding out a boat had gone down.

I think one the huge time difference in that leg due to the complete collapse of the flight plan (for the show, I think the largest the show's ever had) just really makes that instance seem highly suspect.  While I love that teams had to scramble for flights (and not be spoon feed them) this and the air problems of the next episode really hurt that season as a whole.


Offline Caelestor

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Re: Non-Elimination Legs
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2010, 12:18:03 AM »
I'm sorry, but consider the legal ramifications if they did such a thing. We'd hear a LOT more about it.

The only possible exceptions I know of are the middle episodes of TAR 11 and TAR 15's Netherlands leg. The random sauna bus speedbump in Estonia makes me suspicious. (Again, this is just my speculation.) I really thought that leg was set up as an NEL, but M/T's inability to even finish this leg complicated things for the producers. Quitting a roadblock puts you at a significant disadvantage, quitting a detour is a one way ticket to elimination.

Offline redskevin88

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Re: Non-Elimination Legs
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2010, 01:17:41 AM »
Safety reasons chill. Luke needed to be able to hear cues from the instructors, which was why he was not allowed (he's deaf remember?)

« Last Edit: March 13, 2010, 05:20:27 AM by redskevin88 »

Offline Hooky

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Re: Non-Elimination Legs
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2010, 11:54:17 AM »
I think one the huge time difference in that leg due to the complete collapse of the flight plan (for the show, I think the largest the show's ever had) just really makes that instance seem highly suspect.  While I love that teams had to scramble for flights (and not be spoon feed them) this and the air problems of the next episode really hurt that season as a whole.

I actually thought that made that season a lot more entertaining. Those legs would have bored me if not for the insane flight problems. :lol:
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Offline DeafRacer

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Re: Non-Elimination Legs
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2010, 12:41:33 PM »
I think it's just wishful thinking, Luke.  Like some people think the "Lasso a Steer" was put in so the cowboys would have success.  Or the "Counting Chips" was supposed to help Maria and Tiffany last season.

Maybe instead of Chinese Calligraphy they should have had an ASL challenge in your season?

We all pull for our favorite teams, and want to complain when it looks like someone gets special treatment, even when we know they don't.

(By the way, I always thought they should have let you have the opportunity to hang glide, even though the winds weren't too cooperative that day.)

For an ASL challenge, I actually told racers about gorilla's primary language is Sign Language then they all freaked out and thought there might be an ASL challenge related with gorilla telling clue in sign language (when we got a picture of gorilla statue in Phuket). It was hilarious to see them scrambling and try to learn few signs while we were traveling from India to Thailand. But yeah I was hoping there might be an ASL challenge or something like that while we were in Europe. There's a lots of famous deaf school and deaf history in Europe. Oh well.

For paraglide, I wish that I volunteered for roadblock immediately instead of reading whole clue then I would've been forced to run down the hill immediately then I would have been able to catch up with Tammy down the trail instead of having my mom hang around and wait for wind to die down (we were on the mountains for nearly two hours before we decided that Mom should run down the mountains). But, I can't fly down anyway, I have to be able to hear the instructor's cues.

Mike (White) and I actually had a talk about non-elimination legs. Originally, we thought producers do throw non-elimination legs in to save their favorite teams for most of times so we thought the producers probably would save Mike & his dad or me and my mom if one of us comes in the last place at one point since we both were producers' favorite teams. We actually wanted to test it to see if they actually do that but we didn't want to come in the last place on purpose. I remember sitting in the ambulance in Phuket while mom's recovering, the pit stop was only like 20 feet away from us so when I see that Mike & Mel came in the last place. I was pretty sure it was non-elimination leg to save them. Then few minutes later, Mike came over and gave me a hug and said good bye. I was completely surprised then realized producers doesn't do that to save their favorite teams, non-elimination legs were actually planned way before the race started.

Some favorite teams doesn't get saved. Some favorite teams get saved. All it matters is to be in right time and right place. Pure Luck.

Offline mswood

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Re: Non-Elimination Legs
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2010, 02:49:47 PM »
Yeah, for the most part what I think are "favorite" or "unique" teams haven't been saved that often in the race.  The team that did manage to catch both that I thought was certainly popular with people and the Producers was BJ & Tyler, but breaking down the seasons the legs were very much typical placement for where non elimination legs would be.

Offline Caelestor

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Re: Non-Elimination Legs
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2010, 03:03:11 PM »
I think one the huge time difference in that leg due to the complete collapse of the flight plan (for the show, I think the largest the show's ever had) just really makes that instance seem highly suspect.  While I love that teams had to scramble for flights (and not be spoon feed them) this and the air problems of the next episode really hurt that season as a whole.

I actually thought that made that season a lot more entertaining. Those legs would have bored me if not for the insane flight problems. :lol:

The flights (along with the selection of a few teams) are the main reason that season wasn't very good. Maybe it's because the troubles eliminated two of my favorite teams, but really, luck-based flight searching basically knocked out them out with no chance to catch up. Not to mention the ramifications it had for the Poland legs.

We're off-topic aren't we?

Offline DeafRacer

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Re: Non-Elimination Legs
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2010, 03:07:06 PM »
Yeah, for the most part what I think are "favorite" or "unique" teams haven't been saved that often in the race.  The team that did manage to catch both that I thought was certainly popular with people and the Producers was BJ & Tyler, but breaking down the seasons the legs were very much typical placement for where non elimination legs would be.

Didn't BJ & Tyler came in non-elimination legs twice? I met them and wow, they're reallllllly kooky. They acted like I could hear when they talked to me. Starr was like, "Luke's DEAF!"  :lol3: 

Offline mswood

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Re: Non-Elimination Legs
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2010, 03:14:59 PM »
I hate to judge people from footage (because it's just not a lot to judge), but I would have strangled them.

And yeah they got saved twice by non elims.  The only other team that has happened to also won Flo & Zach.  But I never thought of Flo & Zach as being fav's of the producers.

And yeah, both non eliminations happened on legs they normally do, so I never felt it was rigged.

Offline DeafRacer

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Re: Non-Elimination Legs
« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2010, 03:22:59 PM »
I hate to judge people from footage (because it's just not a lot to judge), but I would have strangled them.

And yeah they got saved twice by non elims.  The only other team that has happened to also won Flo & Zach.  But I never thought of Flo & Zach as being fav's of the producers.

And yeah, both non eliminations happened on legs they normally do, so I never felt it was rigged.

I wanted to strangle BJ & Tyler and Eric! They're just lucky to be not on my season or I'll try to find a way to sabotage them.

There's a back to back non-elimination legs on Flo and Zach's season - the one that saved Jill & John then Flo & Zach right? I'm surprised they haven't done that for a while. I think producers miiiight be able to switch non-elimination legs on earlier seasons since they got a lot of rooms with the budget before the world took a nosedive into recession.... who knows.

Offline Hooky

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Re: Non-Elimination Legs
« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2010, 11:46:10 PM »
I think one the huge time difference in that leg due to the complete collapse of the flight plan (for the show, I think the largest the show's ever had) just really makes that instance seem highly suspect.  While I love that teams had to scramble for flights (and not be spoon feed them) this and the air problems of the next episode really hurt that season as a whole.

I actually thought that made that season a lot more entertaining. Those legs would have bored me if not for the insane flight problems. :lol:

The flights (along with the selection of a few teams) are the main reason that season wasn't very good. Maybe it's because the troubles eliminated two of my favorite teams, but really, luck-based flight searching basically knocked out them out with no chance to catch up. Not to mention the ramifications it had for the Poland legs.

We're off-topic aren't we?

Wow, I'm surprised everyone thinks the flights killed All-Stars. In my opinion, the unprecedented nature of that event made up for the lack of unpredictability it brought into Legs 6-8. For me it was a few of the teams chosen (but thankfully most fell out early), the three final four legs which were too boring without any eliminations, and the not-so-epic route (and tasks sometimes) that brought AS down. Oh yeah, and the Antarctica promise that didn't come true (it was really us taking false bait, but still not so nice of BVM). Not the best season, but upper-middle I'd say.

I LOVED BJ & Tyler. Loved them from the first moment I saw them. Truly fun-loving, fascinated with the world goofballs who made the final legs much more entertaining. Put almost any of the eliminated teams into the Final 3 in place of the hippies and what would we have? A snoozefest. BJ & Tyler made Season 9 great (or killed it, I'm sure, for those who hated them). But I honestly have no clue how you could hate them. They may have hogged the camera a little, but the editors were gracious and kept things balanced (thankfully).
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Offline Caelestor

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Re: Non-Elimination Legs
« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2010, 03:09:44 AM »
Hate on the alpha males in TAR 9 all you want, but that season was much more competitive than a majority of recent seasons. The fact that placements went back and forth, and that I had no idea who was going to win made it all the more interesting. Locations and tasks are some of the best the race has ever offered.

We're still off-topic, but this is too interesting to talk about. :lol3: Still don't like All-Stars as a whole.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2010, 03:31:28 AM by Caelestor »

Offline Jobby

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Re: Non-Elimination Legs
« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2010, 04:31:31 AM »
Because they are crazy Luke.  I honestly think they might have changed an non elimination point in All Stars, but its just a gut reaction.  But that certainly wasn't because who it was racing, but how far another team was behind and how the non elimination occurred later.



How was the Allstars NEL fishy? They used it on U/J for the first one at the F7... but later on at the Final 5... which i thought was supposed to be an NEL.. it was actually an elimination leg and eliminated them.

Offline Jobby

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Re: Non-Elimination Legs
« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2010, 04:37:36 AM »
If TAR Producers and TWRP do have fave (and may have made an instant NEL), then why are Charla and Mirna AND the Gaghan Family eliminated? Clearly, NEL legs are planned WAAAAYYY before the race starts, but with a few exceptions like in TAR11. However, now that NEL penalties are made into Speed Bumps instead of the giving off money or the 30-minute penalty, the producers cannot easily make a leg an NEL one based on their discretion because they must plan of a speed bump next leg.

But if the producers have planned alternate speed bumps in every leg....   :(

I want to believe that NELs are pre-determined.. but you have to agree with me recent Speedbumps are pretty lame. Delivering a bowl of noodles in vietnam? Having a suana on a bus for 5 minutes?

Errr, that could have been easily incorporated into the race without much problem. Thus they're still able to switch things up abit.

But i darn agree with what you said about Schmirna and Gaghans getting eliminated if they're pre-determined. :'(

But it is also because of NELs that we have some of our most memorable teams - Flo and Zach, Colin and Christie, Meredith and Gretchen, BJ and Tyler (I hated them, but oh well), David and Mary, Maria and Tiffany etc etc.

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Re: Non-Elimination Legs
« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2010, 04:43:29 AM »
I think one the huge time difference in that leg due to the complete collapse of the flight plan (for the show, I think the largest the show's ever had) just really makes that instance seem highly suspect.  While I love that teams had to scramble for flights (and not be spoon feed them) this and the air problems of the next episode really hurt that season as a whole.

I actually thought that made that season a lot more entertaining. Those legs would have bored me if not for the insane flight problems. :lol:

The flights (along with the selection of a few teams) are the main reason that season wasn't very good. Maybe it's because the troubles eliminated two of my favorite teams, but really, luck-based flight searching basically knocked out them out with no chance to catch up. Not to mention the ramifications it had for the Poland legs.

We're off-topic aren't we?

Wow, I'm surprised everyone thinks the flights killed All-Stars. In my opinion, the unprecedented nature of that event made up for the lack of unpredictability it brought into Legs 6-8. For me it was a few of the teams chosen (but thankfully most fell out early), the three final four legs which were too boring without any eliminations, and the not-so-epic route (and tasks sometimes) that brought AS down. Oh yeah, and the Antarctica promise that didn't come true (it was really us taking false bait, but still not so nice of BVM). Not the best season, but upper-middle I'd say.

I LOVED BJ & Tyler. Loved them from the first moment I saw them. Truly fun-loving, fascinated with the world goofballs who made the final legs much more entertaining. Put almost any of the eliminated teams into the Final 3 in place of the hippies and what would we have? A snoozefest. BJ & Tyler made Season 9 great (or killed it, I'm sure, for those who hated them). But I honestly have no clue how you could hate them. They may have hogged the camera a little, but the editors were gracious and kept things balanced (thankfully).

I have to say, BJ and Tyler, Eric and Jeremy, MoJo and Lake and Michelle killed TAR 9 altogether. But the fact that BJ and Tyler won killed the season entirely for me. And the reason why people hate them is because BJ and Tyler had no idea how annoying they were. Had they been an amazing team who's so fun loving and everything, they would have been asked back for Allstars.

But they were not. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :hearts: :hearts: :jumpy: :wohoo:

Darn those NELs which saved them... :(

Offline Cocoa

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Re: Non-Elimination Legs
« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2010, 08:57:12 AM »
Lets ask the question straight from the Horse's Mouth! I *think* there is someone here in RFF who is a producer of the show (saw his name in the credits, I think?).  :lol:
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