Author Topic: Pre TAR15 Discussion  (Read 85687 times)

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Offline apskip

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Re: TAR 15!!
« Reply #225 on: May 23, 2009, 02:10:04 PM »
I just want them to go to New Zealand or Australia.. higher chances of them having self-driving.

But self driving always spells that all-female teams might be eliminated early because of their way with roads... -____- (Marisa and Brooke, Shanna and Jennifer, Meredith and Maria, Danielle and Dani, Debbie and Bianca and even Dustin and Kandice also landed last on a NEL thanks to bad driving)

And look at the leg there was driving a driving task in TAR 14.. Christie and Jodi and Kisha and Jen fumbled badly too. Sigh..

That's true! I never noticed that until now. But I still think that self-navigation is a necessary ability that needs to be there for the race to be truly challenging.

That is why i'm in a dilemia.. i want an all-female team to win.. but at the same time i want more self-driving!!! (:;)

Joab:
I'm not sure you have cause and effect quite right. Female drivers in Amazing Races are typically equal to male drivers, with one exception. Females have a much higher percentage of "no stick shift" driving abilities. That is what does those who have this affliction in.

I absolutely agree with you that, given the alternatives of continuing the high level of taxi rides in the Amazing Race or substituting more self-driving, it is much more fun to watch Amazing Racers screw up in self-driving than to have a bad taxi driver do them in.

« Last Edit: May 23, 2009, 08:58:43 PM by apskip »

Offline gingerman28

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Re: TAR 15!!
« Reply #226 on: May 23, 2009, 02:14:01 PM »
If I were ever selected for a TAR team (fat chance) the first things I would do would be:

1.  Learn how to drive a stick shift car.

2.  Learn how to read a simple map.

3.  Learn how to leave half the junk I want to take at home, and pack a very light pack.


Offline ZBC Company

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Re: TAR 15!!
« Reply #227 on: May 23, 2009, 04:10:23 PM »



los angles-Rio de Janeiro
Rio de Janeiro-Buenos Aires
Buenos Aires-cape town
cape town-Tripoli
Tripoli-paris
paris
Copenhagen-minsk
minsk-hong kong
hong kong-Vientiane
Vientiane
Vientiane-Naypyidaw
Naypyidaw-melbroune
melbroune-cuncun-Miami

Zachary, A better thread to put that in would be this one. :tup:

Offline Dånooky

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Re: TAR 15!!
« Reply #228 on: May 23, 2009, 04:12:26 PM »
If I were ever selected for a TAR team (fat chance) the first things I would do would be:

1.  Learn how to drive a stick shift car.

2.  Learn how to read a simple map.

3.  Learn how to leave half the junk I want to take at home, and pack a very light pack.
but then who will we laugh at if there aren't any screw-ups?
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Offline ZBC Company

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Tar15
« Reply #229 on: May 23, 2009, 04:14:41 PM »
Just put there fun who were route for season 14


Offline DrRox

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Re: TAR 15!!
« Reply #230 on: May 23, 2009, 06:38:09 PM »

Who says there can't be a good self-driving F/F team?
 :funny:


Danica Patrick/Sarah Fisher ftw....lol
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Offline Jobby

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Re: TAR 15!!
« Reply #231 on: May 23, 2009, 08:28:01 PM »
I just want them to go to New Zealand or Australia.. higher chances of them having self-driving.

But self driving always spells that all-female teams might be eliminated early because of their way with roads... -____- (Marisa and Brooke, Shanna and Jennifer, Meredith and Maria, Danielle and Dani, Debbie and Bianca and even Dustin and Kandice also landed last on a NEL thanks to bad driving)

And look at the leg there was driving a driving task in TAR 14.. Christie and Jodi and Kisha and Jen fumbled badly too. Sigh..

That's true! I never noticed that until now. But I still think that self-navigation is a necessary ability that needs to be there for the race to be truly challenging.

That is why i'm in a dilemia.. i want an all-female team to win.. but at the same time i want more self-driving!!! (:;)

Joab:
I'm not sure you have cause and effect quite right. Female drivers in Amazing Races are typically equal to male drivers, with one exception. Females have a much higher percentage of "no stick shift" driving abilities. That is what does those who have this affliction in.

I absolutely agree with you that, given the alternatives of continuing the high level of taxi rides in the Amazing Race or substituting more slelf-driving, it is much more fun to watch Amazing Racers screw up in self-driving than to have a bad taxi driver do them in.



apskip:
I'm pretty sure i knew what i was talking about. Female drivers in Amazing Races are definitely unequal to that of male drivers, based on the past races which clearly shows evidences that on self-driving legs, all-female teams tends to have a higher chance of getting lost. (Just look at how many of them got eliminated because of bad driving) And with that said, the only all-female team who has shown extremely extraordinary driving skills IMO is Lyn and Karlyn. No other all-female teams even come close to them.

Offline Moo

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Re: TAR 15!!
« Reply #232 on: May 23, 2009, 09:06:51 PM »
Who says there can't be a good self-driving F/F team?
 :funny:

Dustin and Kandice? Charla and Mirna? Jaime and Cara?  ;D More on Dustin and Kandice though, but all female teams had more navigating problems than the other teams.
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Offline Jobby

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Re: TAR 15!!
« Reply #233 on: May 23, 2009, 11:23:54 PM »
Who says there can't be a good self-driving F/F team?
 :funny:

Dustin and Kandice? Charla and Mirna? Jaime and Cara?  ;D More on Dustin and Kandice though, but all female teams had more navigating problems than the other teams.

As i've already said, it has to be the one and only Lyn and Karlyn. :lol:

Offline Dånooky

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Re: TAR 15!!
« Reply #234 on: May 24, 2009, 03:25:55 PM »
Who says there can't be a good self-driving F/F team?
 :funny:

Dustin and Kandice? Charla and Mirna? Jaime and Cara?  ;D More on Dustin and Kandice though, but all female teams had more navigating problems than the other teams.

As i've already said, it has to be the one and only Lyn and Karlyn. :lol:
So how about a special All-Stars with only F/F teams and the catch: the only clues are route infos saying "fly to..." or "drive to..."
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Re: TAR 15!!
« Reply #235 on: May 24, 2009, 07:08:54 PM »
Who says there can't be a good self-driving F/F team?
 :funny:

Dustin and Kandice? Charla and Mirna? Jaime and Cara?  ;D More on Dustin and Kandice though, but all female teams had more navigating problems than the other teams.

As i've already said, it has to be the one and only Lyn and Karlyn. :lol:
So how about a special All-Stars with only F/F teams and the catch: the only clues are route infos saying "fly to..." or "drive to..."

I really don't mind. But i'm pretty sure it won't be a race but one hell of a bitch fight. :funny:

Offline Zack.

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Re: TAR 15!!
« Reply #236 on: May 24, 2009, 08:03:21 PM »
Who says there can't be a good self-driving F/F team?
 :funny:

Dustin and Kandice? Charla and Mirna? Jaime and Cara?  ;D More on Dustin and Kandice though, but all female teams had more navigating problems than the other teams.

As i've already said, it has to be the one and only Lyn and Karlyn. :lol:
So how about a special All-Stars with only F/F teams and the catch: the only clues are route infos saying "fly to..." or "drive to..."

I really don't mind. But i'm pretty sure it won't be a race but one hell of a bitch fight. :funny:

And let me guess: 5 legs in India?  :lol:

Offline apskip

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Re: TAR 15!!
« Reply #237 on: May 24, 2009, 08:25:14 PM »
I just want them to go to New Zealand or Australia.. higher chances of them having self-driving.

But self driving always spells that all-female teams might be eliminated early because of their way with roads... -____- (Marisa and Brooke, Shanna and Jennifer, Meredith and Maria, Danielle and Dani, Debbie and Bianca and even Dustin and Kandice also landed last on a NEL thanks to bad driving)

And look at the leg there was driving a driving task in TAR 14.. Christie and Jodi and Kisha and Jen fumbled badly too. Sigh..

That's true! I never noticed that until now. But I still think that self-navigation is a necessary ability that needs to be there for the race to be truly challenging.

That is why i'm in a dilemia.. i want an all-female team to win.. but at the same time i want more self-driving!!! (:;)

Joab:
I'm not sure you have cause and effect quite right. Female drivers in Amazing Races are typically equal to male drivers, with one exception. Females have a much higher percentage of "no stick shift" driving abilities. That is what does those who have this affliction in.

I absolutely agree with you that, given the alternatives of continuing the high level of taxi rides in the Amazing Race or substituting more slelf-driving, it is much more fun to watch Amazing Racers screw up in self-driving than to have a bad taxi driver do them in.



apskip:
I'm pretty sure i knew what i was talking about. Female drivers in Amazing Races are definitely unequal to that of male drivers, based on the past races which clearly shows evidences that on self-driving legs, all-female teams tends to have a higher chance of getting lost. (Just look at how many of them got eliminated because of bad driving) And with that said, the only all-female team who has shown extremely extraordinary driving skills IMO is Lyn and Karlyn. No other all-female teams even come close to them.

Joab, I don't believe that generalizations like "female drivers in ARs are definitely unequal to that of male drivers...; all-feamle teams tend to have a higher chance of getting lost (Just look at how many of them got eliminated because of bad driving). " That last phrase is precisely what I have done. Here is the scorecard for female/female teams eliminated due to either bad driving performance or poor navigating performance out of 34 total such teams:

AR3, Ep. 1 Gina/Sylvia could not find pit stop near Mexico City
AR6, Ep. 2 Meredith/Maria were constantly in difficulty due to poor stick shift driving in Norway
AR7, Ep. 3 Debbie/Bianca went about 100 miles too far north on toll road beyond the correct exit to turn east over the Andes
AR8, Ep. 10 Godlewski family got lost in Montana driving to Red Mountain Lodge Golf Course and pit stop
AR9, Ep. 2 Lisa/Joni had stick shift driving problems with VW in Brazil
AR9, Ep. 3 Wanda/Desiree had navigational problems going east on the Autobahn
AR10, Ep. 2 Kellie/Jamie had driving problems and really poor navigational results in Mongolia
AR10, Ep. 11 Dustin/Kandice needed to get 4 miles sign for North Africa Horse Ranch and Olive Farm, but their navigation was off
AR13, Ep. 4 Marissa/Brooke fell behind driving and navigating badly in New Zealand
This totals 9 female/female teams eliminated for driving or navigation, or 26%

I did the same identical analysis for male/male teams. Here are the ones eliminated for driving or navigation:

AR2, Ep. 4 Shola/Doyin had navigational problems in Namibia
AR4, Ep. 4 Steve/Josh were lost looking for Gorges du Blavet
AR6, Ep. 1 Avi/Joe had navigational problems in Iceland (remember that memorable ditty "New York Jews in Iceland")
AR7, Ep. 7 Greg/Brian had navigational problems in Botswana
AR10, Ep. 10 Erwin/Godwin had navigational problems in Ukraine
AR11, Ep. 2 Kevin/Drew drove too slow in restored 50kph zone in Atacama Desert, then turned wrong way

When adjusted for the 5 male/male teams that won Amazing Races, the result is 6 teams either eliminated by driving/navigation problems out of 29, or 21%.

Now the male/male performance is slightly better I will agree, but this is only a minor edge, nothing showing clear dominance.

Also, just because I think the evidence should be brought forward, your hypothesis that Lyn/Karlyn are the only female/female team to demonstrate excellent self-driving skills does not appear to me to be warranted. Look first at the Ukraine, where their skills were so high that they played "Follow the Chos" for over 50 miles until they finally decided to self-navigate and did do well from that point. If Lyn/Karlyn were so good, then why didn't they lead themselves back to Kiev? That same confidence was expressed in Mongolia where they had to hijack a local to get them to the National Park.  Later that episode, their driving was just good enough to get them next-to-last place arriving at Hotel Mongolia. In Chennai, Lyn/Karlyn were next to last again based on their self-driving from the Karthik Driving School to Chettinad House. They were average navigating in Kuwait City and finished fourth as a result. They were average in Mauritius and finished next to last. They were average again in the drive from Tytyrin Limestone Mine to Olympic Stadium and were essentially tied with 2 other teams for 3rd/4th/5th place at the TBC. The only piece of superior navigating/driving I saw from Lyn/Karlyn in all of AR10 was in Episode 11 from Ouerzazate to Idelssan and on to the pit stop. They got 2nd place to reflect this. Their driving from the Berber camp pit stop to Quartier Habous of Casablanca was sub-par and they were one of the bottom two teams arriving at Casablanca airport.

So, Joab, tell me how the above is superior driving performance? All I can say it is that it was good enough to not get eliminated for navigation or driving even though their average performance was below average.




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Re: TAR 15!!
« Reply #238 on: May 24, 2009, 10:58:44 PM »
Did you mean to say something ap? :lol:
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Offline Jobby

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Re: TAR 15!!
« Reply #239 on: May 24, 2009, 11:59:00 PM »
Anyway i didn't bother to read through all of what apskip wrote, i only saw this line and am going to reply anyway:

Quote
So, Joab, tell me how the above is superior driving performance? All I can say it is that it was good enough to not get eliminated for navigation or driving even though their average performance was below average.

If their driving was average enough to not get eliminated (Isn't that the point i'm making? Good driving and not getting eliminated??) although you thought their performance was below average, then wouldn't that put your favourite team Dustin and Kandice driving to almost worthless because they got a 30 minutes penalty due to their poor driving and couldn't recover next leg anyway?

Do you even know what you're talking about apskip? :funny: You're contradicting yourself and you're not even knowing it? If Lyn and Karlyn can drive good enough to propel them to the final 3 and none of the other all-female teams in recent and past seasons can, then doesn't put them as one of the best all-female teams we've seen on the race with BELOW AVERAGE driving skills.. if you want to see it that way?

 :funny: This is so funny.

Offline Jobby

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Re: TAR 15!!
« Reply #240 on: May 25, 2009, 12:02:04 AM »
Another line i saw.. just the front and back.

Quote
Joab, I don't believe that generalizations like "female drivers in ARs are definitely unequal to that of male drivers...;

But i truly believe in it and i think the responses on this thread from other posters speaks so as well, that all-female teams tend to get clueless at driving. All i can say is, to each his own. I believe in what i want to believe in, and i cannot change your mind in what you want to believe in as well..

Some last words, you really have alot of time to spare. :funny:

Offline Kiwi Jay

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Re: TAR 15!!
« Reply #241 on: May 25, 2009, 04:02:52 AM »
 :ascared He is very good at his analysing  :tup:
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Offline apskip

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Re: TAR 15!!
« Reply #242 on: May 25, 2009, 08:41:47 AM »
Joab,
I don't think you get it at all. Lyn/Karlyn were below average for female/female teams in driving ability. Remember that 74% of female/female teams did not get eliminated due to driving or navigation problems. Most of those were better than Lyn/Karlyn in self-driving!

You can knock Dustin/Kandice all you want(talk is cheap), but please be aware that it brings down the wrath of Michael on your head. That's something to truly be concerned about. After all, I should know.

Offline Hooky

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Re: TAR 15!!
« Reply #243 on: May 25, 2009, 11:28:19 AM »
Joab,
I don't think you get it at all. Lyn/Karlyn were below average for female/female teams in driving ability. Remember that 74% of female/female teams did not get eliminated due to driving or navigation problems. Most of those were better than Lyn/Karlyn in self-driving!

You can knock Dustin/Kandice all you want(talk is cheap), but please be aware that it brings down the wrath of Michael on your head. That's something to truly be concerned about. After all, I should know.

It's funny how you know the exact percentage of eliminations that were caused by other factors than driving. :funny:
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Offline mswood

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Re: TAR 15!!
« Reply #244 on: May 25, 2009, 04:27:38 PM »
Well driving has always been a big issue for me with the show (and why I was so upset about season 13, still pisses me off).

As mentioned above there are three primary factors.

1.  Solid driving experience, and many teams really don't have this.
2.  Being able to drive different types of vehicles including various stick shifts.
3.  Being able to read a map.

And while thes factors have hurt many an all female team, they have also really hurt others.

And frankly it pisses me off. 

Now I am unsure on the lead time for a standard edition (how much advance warning teams have that they are in fact going on the amazing race), but certainly on All Stars (were teams have stated that they had weeks of advance knowledge) for many races to not being able to drive a stick hift, or read a map, or read a compass is simply unforgiving.

Take a team like Hayden & Aaron strong performing team that had one good driver and a good map reader.  THe problem it was the same racer. 

Look at season 9, and look at three teams.  Eric & Jeremy, Ray & Yolanda, and Fran & Berry.  You have a strong physical team that is very good at driving and navigation, a strong physical team that sucks at navigation, and a weak team that is good at driving and navigation.

Fran & Berry lasted as long as they did mainly on the back of their ability to get from point A to point B.  But they often were how shall we put it, poor at tasks.

Eric & Jeremy good at tasks and the great in getting from point A to point B.  In fact the only times they had a problem was in a small area in south America (where every team got lost) and in taking a risk to gain ground (trying for first again) taking a local short cut through the desert without street signs or a real map to navigate with (It was a huge, huge blunder probably their single biggest mistake and the only time they didn't finish 1st or 2nd).

Ray & Yolanda probably pound for pound the strongest team, yet these two couldn't drive from point A to point B without serious help.  And without Dani & danielle getting yielded would have been the 4th team eliminated.

It shows how important the ability to drive really is.  Putting that with a team that is also good at task really makes you the team to beat.

As for female teams I don't think we have enough solid proff to say any female team was good at driving. 

Dustin & Kandice made do with a huge amount of help from local and cabs in traveling (in both their seasons).  Lyn & Karlyn heavily relied on others in moving from point A to B and only showed solid navigation skills in one of 13 episodes.

And I will always, always rather see a team lose (or succeed) based on their own ability then the ability of a cab driver.  In fact I generally hate those episodes where a team loses do to a cab (even if its a team I don't like).



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Re: TAR 15!!
« Reply #245 on: May 25, 2009, 05:16:29 PM »

And I will always, always rather see a team lose (or succeed) based on their own ability then the ability of a cab driver.  In fact I generally hate those episodes where a team loses do to a cab (even if its a team I don't like).



Christie & Jodi.   :groan:

Well, if a F/F team knows how to ask directions from the locals, and can ask/plead them to lead them to the place, they can have a chance. Except if the locals doesn't speak english, and not that very kind.
M

Offline Dånooky

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Re: TAR 15!!
« Reply #246 on: May 26, 2009, 07:08:33 AM »

And I will always, always rather see a team lose (or succeed) based on their own ability then the ability of a cab driver.  In fact I generally hate those episodes where a team loses do to a cab (even if its a team I don't like).



Christie & Jodi.   :groan:

Well, if a F/F team knows how to ask directions from the locals, and can ask/plead them to lead them to the place, they can have a chance. Except if the locals doesn't speak english, and not that very kind.
sudden idea...how about: instead of relying on the cab driver, why don't they just get a map and direct said cab driver to the destination like in S1 leg 1?. But in the Ch/Jo case, we know from the interview that the cab driver went on the wrong direction on purpose
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Offline apskip

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Re: TAR 15!!
« Reply #247 on: May 26, 2009, 07:46:54 AM »
cdfe88, I think you may be be unkind to that taxi driver in the Jaipur area. My understanding of the episode is that he thought they wanted to go to the Pushkar Camel Fair, which was active at the same time AR14 visited the Jaipur area. The driver did not intentionally take them to the wrong place. He just didn't ask questions and he made an incorrect assumption about where they wanted to go. What I do not know is the extent to which Christie/Jodi challenged that(we saw that they did on camera, but when and how often?). They would have no reason to if they knew the driver spoke good English, but I thought his English skills were marginal.

There is no question that the taxi driver's mistake caused Christie/Jodi to be eliminated despite excellent performance as soon as they started tasks. I chalk this up to one of the natural casualties of using taxis in countries where the potential for misunderstanding exists. World Race Productions knows this and expect that some teams are going to be punished by it. It is the rough equivalent of doing poorly on a luck-based task. With all the excessive bunching that happens in Amazing Races, WRP wants a little differentiation so that everyone is not arriving at tasks at the same time for a boring result.

Offline Jobby

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Re: TAR 15!!
« Reply #248 on: May 26, 2009, 10:48:11 AM »
Joab,
I don't think you get it at all. Lyn/Karlyn were below average for female/female teams in driving ability. Remember that 74% of female/female teams did not get eliminated due to driving or navigation problems. Most of those were better than Lyn/Karlyn in self-driving!

You can knock Dustin/Kandice all you want(talk is cheap), but please be aware that it brings down the wrath of Michael on your head. That's something to truly be concerned about. After all, I should know.

Nevermind. There's no point bringing it further. You either get it or don't.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2009, 11:20:53 AM by Joab »

Offline Dånooky

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Re: TAR 15!!
« Reply #249 on: May 26, 2009, 11:13:11 AM »
cdfe88, I think you may be be unkind to that taxi driver in the Jaipur area. My understanding of the episode is that he thought they wanted to go to the Pushkar Camel Fair, which was active at the same time AR14 visited the Jaipur area. The driver did not intentionally take them to the wrong place. He just didn't ask questions and he made an incorrect assumption about where they wanted to go. What I do not know is the extent to which Christie/Jodi challenged that(we saw that they did on camera, but when and how often?). They would have no reason to if they knew the driver spoke good English, but I thought his English skills were marginal.

Ergo, even though (according to their interview) the flight attendants kept insisting they were going the wrong way, the taxi driver obstinately took them on the wrong direction until another driver told him he was doing the wrong thing. (perhaps "intentionally" was a bad choice of words, what I meant is that the taxi driver meant to take them to a wrong place in spite of where he was really being asked to go)
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