Author Topic: The Mole 5.0 *Ongoing Clue Analysis and Challenge Discussions*  (Read 232434 times)

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Offline elTopo

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Re: The Mole 5.0 *Ongoing Clue Analysis and Challenge Discussions*
« Reply #325 on: July 02, 2008, 01:33:28 PM »
another thing i was thinking about was perhaps the producers had in mind when they created the travellers game (knowing craig and his recent health problems) that they were gonna make craig that position no matter what. if you think about it, i believe the players had to travel 5 miles in 45 minutes (?). if thats so then they're expecting the players to do 9 minute miles which i think is reasonable for the remaining 6. however i think 9 minute miles for 5 miles is NOT possible for craig.

i dont think theres any way the producers would create a game that not everyone could participate in.  i guess they could always have assumed that someone would have given him a moped or bike.

Offline Molecule

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Re: The Mole 5.0 *Ongoing Clue Analysis and Challenge Discussions*
« Reply #326 on: July 02, 2008, 07:27:50 PM »
Thought I'd lend a hand and post the latest from the Mole's Journal:





Offline Molecule

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Re: The Mole 5.0 *Ongoing Clue Analysis and Challenge Discussions*
« Reply #327 on: July 02, 2008, 07:34:07 PM »
I haven't begun to look at these, but my initial impression is that the Mole has kids or is involved with kids in some way because of the llama remark. I know that at least Clay, Mark and Paul have children(?).

Offline Molecule

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Re: The Mole 5.0 *Ongoing Clue Analysis and Challenge Discussions*
« Reply #328 on: July 02, 2008, 08:51:28 PM »
I'm convinced that the last online clue was in reference to Kristen leaving. She said something about it being tenuous just at the end of the dinner before the execution and that there was "a 1 out of 6 chance of leaving." The 1 came out of the 6 in a sense in the clue. That being said, I don't think the online or text clues will ever tell us who the Mole is. The episodes will. This other stuff is just fluff.

Except, I do think the online journal will give us clues and after re-watching the last episode I think the "kids" reference is relevant. The goat (aka "a kid"), the soccer team made up of kids, etc. The other journal entry re: "the chains that bind us" could also be a clue about something in common between the players... e.g. kids. In other words, the Mole has a kid or kids.

I'm also REALLY beginning to think that trains and grapes are clues. There was a close-up of grapes before the last dinner (maybe that explains the visual reference from a previous eppy, The Last Supper, just for fun's sake?). The only hometowns that reek of trains are Chicago and New York (with Yonkers & Chicago both having some serious history relating to trains) so that would point to Paul or Nicole. New York also has vineyards, particularly in the Finger Lakes region. A little known fact I'm sure. (btw, been there... great wine!)

I'm still sold on Paul. People think he's too obvious to be the Mole and I hear it all the time that there's no way he could be the Mole. I even thought so at first, but I now believe the previous journal entries point his way too.

As always, I'm probably wrong!  :lol:


Offline knuckles487

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Re: The Mole 5.0 *Ongoing Clue Analysis and Challenge Discussions*
« Reply #329 on: July 03, 2008, 07:47:32 AM »


Now we know who had journal #11.








Offline Pearlgirl4221

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Re: The Mole 5.0 *Ongoing Clue Analysis and Challenge Discussions*
« Reply #330 on: July 03, 2008, 10:14:00 AM »
Nice catch knuckles thanks!  :yess:  I think that the fact he has journal 11 and is 11th in the opening can't be purely luck can it???   
"But pride where there is a real superiority of mind, pride is always under good regulation." ~Mr. Darcy, Pride and Prejudice~

Offline georgiapeach

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Re: The Mole 5.0 *Ongoing Clue Analysis and Challenge Discussions*
« Reply #331 on: July 03, 2008, 10:50:31 AM »
 Very nice knuckles--thanks!  :gj:

The whole Craig ambulance thing is still bothering me...

I worked ER for years and I can't say that I saw any evidence of hypothermia there or it being treated. Altittude sickness is a possibility still though...

But this would have been a great way to get him away for a production update, wouldn't it?  :duno:
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Offline Nightstalker

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Re: The Mole 5.0 *Ongoing Clue Analysis and Challenge Discussions*
« Reply #332 on: July 03, 2008, 10:52:55 AM »
Nice catch knuckles thanks!  :yess:  I think that the fact he has journal 11 and is 11th in the opening can't be purely luck can it???

Well, it can be.  I know I've said it before guys and I know that if I'm wrong I'll look pretty dumb but I have to say it again.  Everyone is WAAAAAY too focused on 11.  I know it was one of the first clues we got but it seems like those that go hunting for 11 clues are those that want Craig to be the mole.  There are so many other clues.  I think peeps need to put 11 on the backburner for now and try to find more clues to the mole instead of more clues to 11 that will make Craig the mole.  Focusing on one clue and one person all the time might not be the best strategy.



As far as the new online mole journal goes I don't see any new information in it.  I didn't really expect new info.  Like I thinking before they've already given us way too much pointing to either Paul or Clay.  Anymore at this point and they tell us who the mole is.  I don't think "kids" is any new clue.  That involves a bit of a leap making assumptions from the clues and thus far all the clues from the mole's journal have been pretty obvious and straight forward.  Either way if Paul and Clay both have kids then the non-clue doesn't help anymore.

My money is still on Clay with Paul as my back-up.

Offline randallcornelius

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Re: The Mole 5.0 *Ongoing Clue Analysis and Challenge Discussions*
« Reply #333 on: July 03, 2008, 01:57:46 PM »
i just wanna throw something out there, and i don't know what significance it has and i don't think i saw anyone mention it, but did anyone else notice that for every entry in the journal, all the letters are capatalized except for i? I don't know if there is a purpose to that or not but it's been driving me crazy, so i had to let it out...

anyways, since this is the first season i came online and checked out forums, i was wondering if, for past seasons, you guys actually figured out who the mole was before the show ended? and if you did, how long before?

Offline Rabbit

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Re: The Mole 5.0 *Ongoing Clue Analysis and Challenge Discussions*
« Reply #334 on: July 03, 2008, 05:56:57 PM »
The small "i"s in the journal is just the font they used, which is one of the available fonts at Scrapblog. I created the same thing using that font.. TOp one is from the journal, bottom one is from me.





Offline Pearlgirl4221

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Re: The Mole 5.0 *Ongoing Clue Analysis and Challenge Discussions*
« Reply #335 on: July 03, 2008, 06:18:19 PM »
Very nice knuckles--thanks!  :gj:

The whole Craig ambulance thing is still bothering me...

I worked ER for years and I can't say that I saw any evidence of hypothermia there or it being treated. Altittude sickness is a possibility still though...

But this would have been a great way to get him away for a production update, wouldn't it?  :duno:

I am with you peach....I think that even if some of his issues were genuine it would have been easy for them to blow it out of proportion so the could have time to talk to the producers....Although I feel bad being suspicious of him in this case because it could most defiantly have been legit...

Also I would be interested to know if anyone else has the same journal # as the order they are introduced (it would also be convincing{that Craig was a coincident} to me if there was a clue given by abc that directly pointed to anyone in more than one way.)

This is the order for opening: Victoria, Mark, Bobby, Marcie, Nicole, Paul, Alex, Liz, Ali, Clay, Craig, Kristen.....If we could get a list of what journal numbers people have old or new that would be great...++ something I noticed Jon brought out 10 journals, all of the # that we burned, so people could still have the same number if they wanted.

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Offline Rabbit

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Re: The Mole 5.0 *Ongoing Clue Analysis and Challenge Discussions*
« Reply #336 on: July 03, 2008, 06:26:47 PM »
Mark had #10, still has #10. He's 2nd in intro so that doesn't line up
Alex had #12, still has #12. He's 7th. ditto
Paul had #4 (i believe), has #1 now. He's 6th in intro. ditto
Nicole had #9 (i believe), not sure now but she's 5th in intro. ditto
Clay . don't know
Craig had #11, still has #11. He's 11th in intro.  ;)

hope that helps.

Offline gingerman28

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Re: The Mole 5.0 *Ongoing Clue Analysis and Challenge Discussions*
« Reply #337 on: July 03, 2008, 07:32:01 PM »
another thing i was thinking about was perhaps the producers had in mind when they created the travellers game (knowing craig and his recent health problems) that they were gonna make craig that position no matter what. if you think about it, i believe the players had to travel 5 miles in 45 minutes (?). if thats so then they're expecting the players to do 9 minute miles which i think is reasonable for the remaining 6. however i think 9 minute miles for 5 miles is NOT possible for craig.

i dont think theres any way the producers would create a game that not everyone could participate in.  i guess they could always have assumed that someone would have given him a moped or bike.

9 minute miles? on stilts? on a monoped? inside a llama? etc.etc.  Not very realistic.  Walking at a rate of 4-5 miles an hour is fast walking.  So doing 5 miles with all that other stuff is sort of out of the question to do it in 45 minutes.  And at altitude up a hill!  That task was rigged to fail from the start.

Offline buckhead betty

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Re: The Mole 5.0 *Ongoing Clue Analysis and Challenge Discussions*
« Reply #338 on: July 03, 2008, 08:26:22 PM »
After watching I really dont think Clay is the mole anymore.

He threw an object at another player that hit him (or nearly hit him) in the head. Do you think someone hired by ABC would resort to something that could have led to a physical fight? I just cant see the mole intentionally harming someone.

Offline Nightstalker

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Re: The Mole 5.0 *Ongoing Clue Analysis and Challenge Discussions*
« Reply #339 on: July 03, 2008, 11:10:27 PM »
Eh, I can understand the logic but I don't necessarily agree.  Where does one draw the line?  Paul has been trying to start fights left and right but many still think he might be the mole.  Nicole threatened to kill Paul.  Does that mean the mole has to be Craig, Mark or Alex?  I duhno.

I'd be more concerned if Clay threw a punch or even threw something like a rock.  But a lemon?  Come on.  Who gets seriously injured from a lemon?  By the look of it Clay wasn't even trying to hit Paul and it grazed him be accident.  He might have just wanted it to land near him.  Besides, even the mole can be consumed by emotion and do something stupid.  Nobody is perfect.  The mole is prone to human emotions and faults.  If the mole did something wrong ABC would probably reprimand them but unless it was something serious I doubt actions would be taken. 

I can see the concern but I definitely wouldn't rule Clay out yet.

Offline eazeymac91

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Re: The Mole 5.0 *Ongoing Clue Analysis and Challenge Discussions*
« Reply #340 on: July 04, 2008, 11:26:40 AM »
I saw this mentioned on the forums on abc but during the Cage challenge when mark is the only one left and he is thinking about what he should do the camera shows the chain in the shape of an M clearly.  Now the only way this could've been done is if the producers did it because when Alex went up it looked nothing like an M

Offline Belle Book

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Re: The Mole 5.0 *Ongoing Clue Analysis and Challenge Discussions*
« Reply #341 on: July 04, 2008, 02:03:20 PM »
The Mole's clues in episode 5 indicate two things to me:

1.  The Mole considered going for the exemption but decided to play nice.  I think Nicole, Mark and Paul all considered going for the exemption but decided not to.  The Mole could be one of them.

2.  The Mole has kids or is involved in some way with kids.  Mark has kids (and a wife, of course), and I heard Clay does.  Oh and Nicole's an OB/GYN, so she works with pregnant mothers and mothers with newborns.

So maybe that moves Clay and Nicole up the scale to join Craig as top suspects.  I still think Mark's too competitive to be the Mole, but I could be wrong.

Belle Book

Offline Rabbit

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Re: The Mole 5.0 *Ongoing Clue Analysis and Challenge Discussions*
« Reply #342 on: July 04, 2008, 03:13:14 PM »
I saw this mentioned on the forums on abc but during the Cage challenge when mark is the only one left and he is thinking about what he should do the camera shows the chain in the shape of an M clearly.  Now the only way this could've been done is if the producers did it because when Alex went up it looked nothing like an M

I read all that too on the abc boards and i don't believe it for a second. That "M" could have been formed by Mark walking up to the cage and back while waiting for the cage to be opened. In fact, Mark had formed a mini version of it earlier in that challenge too. I put together some screen caps to illustrate how, through his actions and the actions of the others, that "Mark of the Mole" could have easily been formed without it being on purpose from the producers.

It can be found here:
http://members.shaw.ca/squeezedrabbit/mole/screencaps/smokinggun.jpg

Now, this isn't to say that Mark isn't the mole as he very well could be. I just don't believe that this so-called smoking gun is any sign or clue purposely planted by the producers or the mole himself.

Offline Pearlgirl4221

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Re: The Mole 5.0 *Ongoing Clue Analysis and Challenge Discussions*
« Reply #343 on: July 04, 2008, 04:26:36 PM »
Thanks Rabbit!!! That helps,  :ty3:  Also I don't think that we can rule any one out when it says that the mole thought about taking the exemption, any one could have thought about it even if they didn't voice any of it......also we don't know for sure how accurate this journal is....and I don't think that the ‘kids like it’ in reference to the Llama was meant as a clue of course JMO. I feel like the journal is some what of a ploy to keep us busy, while it could contain some useful information I highly doubt that they would put any information in there to directly eliminate any contestants. {I think that this is why they change some of the early entries[the bit a bout the blindfold] the didn't want to be obvious or they didn't want to give out too much info.}  Also is the show coming on this week at 10 still or 9. I know that it is the Bachelorette finally, but idk if ABC has any other shows to fill in the 9-10 slot. Any one Any one???


***If you watch some of the bonus footage online it seems like Clay and Paul have a secret coalition...hmmm...***



EDIT: OK so I asked the above ? and then looked it up so if any one else wanted to know:
This Monday (7-7-08): no show
Next Monday (7-14-08): 9:00~take a closer look, 10:00~New Episode.


« Last Edit: July 04, 2008, 04:41:28 PM by Pearlgirl4221 »
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Offline Rabbit

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Re: The Mole 5.0 *Ongoing Clue Analysis and Challenge Discussions*
« Reply #344 on: July 04, 2008, 04:36:23 PM »
The Bachelorette is on for 2 hours 8-10 with a reunion show 10-11
The mole comes back on July 14th with a recrap eppy 9-10 and new eppy 10-11

according to ABC's programming schedule.

hope that helps.


Offline KingCrimson88

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Re: The Mole 5.0 *Ongoing Clue Analysis and Challenge Discussions*
« Reply #345 on: July 05, 2008, 10:25:28 AM »
The whole "music to the moles ears" coment from Jon earlier in the season makes me think Alex is the mole(he's a musician). Don't they always have little clues like that every season? Of course this assumes the host knows the moles identity, but eh.

Offline georgiapeach

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Re: The Mole 5.0 *Ongoing Clue Analysis and Challenge Discussions*
« Reply #346 on: July 05, 2008, 10:48:50 AM »
The host does NOT know the Mole's identity...but they are certainly fed lines to use....

I'm still wondering about those "Pisco Sours"! :lol:
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Offline Rabbit

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Re: The Mole 5.0 *Ongoing Clue Analysis and Challenge Discussions*
« Reply #347 on: July 05, 2008, 02:51:58 PM »
lololol peach. Has he mentioned them lately? seems he's moved onto wine now!

I thought he mentioned Pisco sour wayyyyy too many times for it to not mean anything.

Pisco sours ARE made with lemons and who loves his lemon?

Offline Nightstalker

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Re: The Mole 5.0 *Ongoing Clue Analysis and Challenge Discussions*
« Reply #348 on: July 05, 2008, 03:31:29 PM »
That M in the chain clue is ridiculous.  I'd say it's once again another case of people looking so closely for clues that they'll try to turn anything and everything that they see into a clue.

I still don't think the kids comment is a clue either.  It's just not fitting in with how the clues in the mole's journals have lined up so far.  They're all been simple.  Infering that it's a clue saying that the mole either has kids or works with kids is a bit of a leap.  Besides, not every comment in the journals is a clue.  Some are just silly, one off comments that are probably planted there just for people to infer much more than they should.

No Mole this week?  Ugh!  That sucks. 

Offline marukisu

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Re: The Mole 5.0 *Ongoing Clue Analysis and Challenge Discussions*
« Reply #349 on: July 05, 2008, 03:45:22 PM »
Everyone im convinced the Mole is Paul. At first when the shoe started he was  the lowest on my radar  because everyone was trying so hard to convince that they were the mole(mainly Nicole) If hes executed ill be

Observing all the journal entries,  he first clue card, and the biblical references ive been seeing points to Paul.

The pre  episode clue find the mom could point to Nicole since she deals with mothers and is an OBGYN however prior to thatepisode Marcie was a stay at home mom. Naturally you would think that she could be the mole based on that clue. Now..whne you watch the first episode you see that shes executed so youd move away form her as the mole naturally, however Paul made a secret coalition with her prior to the execution. So..indeed if you did find the "MOM" you would find the "Mole"

Adressing the biblical references being made,in the first episode they showed a statue of Jesus off the cross executed . As we all know Jesus was betrayed by Judas. And if imcorrect at the last supper Judas sat close to Jesus and if that were the case then Paul would be Judas because he was the closest to the Host. Also its kind of funny how John said "May the mole have mercy on your souls." or something to that effect.

The number 11 everyone has been talking about is a good clue but i think your energy is thrown way too much toward craig and i dont think it would be that obvious. If you guys notice in the first episode, for question number 10"Who is the Mole?" Paul's name is listed as the 11th choice.

The journal entries dont seem like much but if you examine each page they point to Paul more than any other player. The journal entries have a subtle tone of arrogance to it much like Pauls personality.

Now heres a page by page anaysis of how the journal enties sound like Paul.

Page 1- "Do you believe in Little old moles Marcie?" is a play on when Liz said "Do you believe in Little old ladies Marcie?" if you go back to the episode, the only person on the camera sharing the screen with Liz is Paul.

Page 2- Heres where the choices are narrowed down very well and point to Paul. If you notice in the letter adressed to Marcie's departure there is a line that says"Girl, you almost had me convinced you were the mole."
If you say that out loud it the "Girl" followed by the pause sounds like something a black person would say so naturally Nicole and Clay would be top choice but also in New york theres alot of heavy slang in there that is similar to the African American vernacular, so it would be wise to include that as something Paul might say.

Now if you look to the message about how the mole said "ICant believed i jumped off the waterfall !" Now.. everyone went down the waterfall challenge but not everyone physically jumped. The only two people who jumped were Pauland Alex.

Page 3- Im not sure about the yellow card statement but the "Which little piggy went to the Market could point to Paul since he proke the little piggy.

Page 4- Is a comment on the blanket  and how they should be bigger. Its kind of strange that Paul worked with Liz to use the blanket and she was executed that episode. And the fact theres theres a comment on the blanket size also leans toward Paul a little bit.

Also the letter adressed to Liz for her departure is very specific and gives away the identity of Paul. The line that says "with all of your foot problems and overheating, i didnt have to lift a finger" because Paul and Kristen were the only ones present when she mentioned her Foot sweeling and overheating, and Ali was bribed to leave, so the only person who could comment on that is Paul.

Page 5- Apparently there was a comment about being blindfolded and going down the luge until ABC changed it to simply going down the luge. Basingmy assumptions on the prior entry that the Mole had to be blindfolded it would have to be Paul because he was blindfolded going down the luge.

Page 6- This is also a big clue to tip you off that its Pau because the letter adressed to Bobby is commenting on how Bobby had to be pushed around in a wheelbarrow by Kristen. The only person to call Bobby out on him not being able to do the challenges well in that manner is Paul.

The grapesained comment is very helpful as well because the Mole comments on how grapes arent his favorite fruit. Now ...if we all rember back Paul had a little lemon as his best friend, so im wondering would a lemon be the Mole's favorite fruit instead?

Page 7- I cant tie the burned note to Paul.

Page 8- The comment on the exemption card implies that the mole thought about taking the exemption and in combination with the picture of the chain and the comment "oh,the ties that bind us" could imply that Paul would have took it had he not said "i swear on my daughter".

Page 9- its funny how out of all of the objects Craig chose for everyone to travel up the hill, the llama was the only one that the mole decided to include in his journal. And Paul and Nicole were supposed to go up the hill in that costume.

The only thing that makes me a bit skeptical about Paul i the baby crying in one episode, which could have been a nod to Nicole for the Mole since shes an OBGYN. Also the factthat Paul really doesnt do anything mole-ish. Having said that if we go back to season one he could be taking the appraoch of Kathyrn(the mole from that season) and let the group dynamic fall on its own while sabotaging smallthings here and there. Theres so much evidence pointing toward Paul id be suprised if he was executed.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2008, 04:04:42 PM by marukisu »