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The Amazing Race => The Amazing Race Discussion => Topic started by: G.B. on November 08, 2014, 02:00:14 PM
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In what way, shape or form was that the 300th leg? ???
Let's take a look...
By Wikipedia's (and my) views, which is the most commonly accepted view, we have...
13 + 13 + 13 + 13 + 13 + 12 + 12 + 11 + 12 + 12 + 13 + 11 + 11 + 11 + 12 + 12 + 12 + 12 + 12 + 12 + 12 + 12 + 12 + 12 + 7 = 297
So I thought maybe production was considering all of the Double-length legs as two legs instead of one...but there were 7 of those, which = 304
Season 6's double leg had no Pit Stop and neither did Season 10's, so that could be 302
But no matter what crazy counting scheme I use, I never come up with 300...
Any thoughts?
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Yeah, they had an odd counting scheme.
Maybe they only count the Double-Length legs as separate legs in 7,9, and 14? I understand the difference between these and Seasons 6 and 10, and the same with Leg 11 of TAR8.
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I haven't really checked the Wiki and stuff, but maybe 300 = 300 EPISODES aired? Not 300 legs?
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I haven't really checked the Wiki and stuff, but maybe 300 = 300 EPISODES aired? Not 300 legs?
TAR1, 4, 6, 10 had 13 episodes
TAR2, 3, 8, 12, 13, 15, 18, 20, 21, 22, 23 had 11 episodes
TAR5, 7, 9, 11, 14, 16, 17, 19, 24 had 12 episodes
4(13) + 12(11) + 10(12) + 7 = 300
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I haven't really checked the Wiki and stuff, but maybe 300 = 300 EPISODES aired? Not 300 legs?
TAR1, 4, 6, 10 had 13 episodes
TAR2, 3, 8, 12, 13, 15, 18, 20, 21, 22, 23 had 11 episodes
TAR5, 7, 9, 11, 14, 16, 17, 19, 24 had 12 episodes
4(13) + 12(11) + 10(12) + 7 = 300
If that's true, are we need to reclassify double length legs as separate legs? Example, in TAR 14, the double length leg is edited as separate legs, and no italic?
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It's obviously not episodes, because most of the recent seasons have been airing the last two legs in a single episode (ie, TAR20, TAR21, etc...)
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I haven't really checked the Wiki and stuff, but maybe 300 = 300 EPISODES aired? Not 300 legs?
TAR1, 4, 6, 10 had 13 episodes
TAR2, 3, 8, 12, 13, 15, 18, 20, 21, 22, 23 had 11 episodes
TAR5, 7, 9, 11, 14, 16, 17, 19, 24 had 12 episodes
4(13) + 12(11) + 10(12) + 7 = 300
Where are you getting this? When I use the wiki numbers I get:
I have 1-5 and 11 as 13 legs.
8, 12, 13, 14 as 11
All the rest is twelve.
And if double legs were counted as one then the number would go down further. I get 297, so CBS must be counting differently.
GB we were discussing this also in the Ep 7 show thread.
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I haven't really checked the Wiki and stuff, but maybe 300 = 300 EPISODES aired? Not 300 legs?
TAR1, 4, 6, 10 had 13 episodes
TAR2, 3, 8, 12, 13, 15, 18, 20, 21, 22, 23 had 11 episodes
TAR5, 7, 9, 11, 14, 16, 17, 19, 24 had 12 episodes
4(13) + 12(11) + 10(12) + 7 = 300
You do know that adds up to 311, not 300... right?
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I doubt that, perhaps, there's unaired leg, which not aired due camera video deletion accident. Maybe? We never knows...., until CBS talk it.
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I haven't really checked the Wiki and stuff, but maybe 300 = 300 EPISODES aired? Not 300 legs?
TAR1, 4, 6, 10 had 13 episodes
TAR2, 3, 8, 12, 13, 15, 18, 20, 21, 22, 23 had 11 episodes
TAR5, 7, 9, 11, 14, 16, 17, 19, 24 had 12 episodes
4(13) + 12(11) + 10(12) + 7 = 300
You do know that adds up to 311, not 300... right?
Yes, but I made an error WRITING the numbers, because that would mean that there are 27 seasons instead of 25.
I should be 4(13) + 11(11) + 9(12) + 7
I'm confusing myself at this point :lol:
The point is, WRP used weird math to get their number
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Season 1 - 5, 9 & 11 = 13 x 7 = 91
Season 6, 7, 8 & 10 = 12 x 4 = 48 (Season 6 TBC, Season 7 "Meet Phil", this leg is not over, Season 8 Finale Mega Leg with clue indication KOR, Season 10 Mega Leg with clue indication KOR)
Season 12 & 13 = 11 x 2 = 22
Season 14 - 24 = 12 x 11 = 132
Season 25 = 7 legs so far
Total: 300th Leg on Leg 7, TAR 25.
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Season 1 - 5, 9 & 11 = 13 x 7 = 91
Season 6, 7, 8 & 10 = 12 x 4 = 48 (Season 6 TBC, Season 7 "Meet Phil", this leg is not over, Season 8 Finale Mega Leg with clue indication KOR, Season 10 Mega Leg with clue indication KOR)
Season 12 & 13 = 11 x 2 = 22
Season 14 - 24 = 12 x 11 = 132
Season 25 = 7 legs so far
Total: 300th Leg on Leg 7, TAR 25.
You missed:
-Season 8 "Meet Phil", this leg is not over (Final 4; remember that footrace between the Weavers and the Bransens?)
-Season 9 "Meet Phil", this leg is not over (Final 9)
-Season 14 "Meet Phil", this leg is not over (Final 4) -- 11 legs; not 12
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Season 14 had 12 legs:
http://forum.realityfanforum.com/index.php/board,107.0.html
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Sorry... but what am I looking at here? Isn't it 11 legs, 12 episodes?
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Bringing this over from the Episode Thread (http://forum.realityfanforum.com/index.php/topic,30602.msg1049741.html#msg1049741)...
We start with the total number of "shows" we've had: 304. (GB mentions this at the top post.) This counts all race segments that fit into a 60- or 90-min timeslot.
13x11 (Seasons 1-11) + 11x2 (Seasons 12-13) + 12x11 (Seasons 14-24) + 7 (Season 25) = 304
From here, we combine four pairs of "shows" to count as a single leg in one of two ways, to arrive at the magical number 300:
1. As Jobby suggests, we can consider Eger (Season 6), Montreal (Season 8 ), and Helsinki (Season 10) as non-Pit Stops because teams never meet Phil. On top of that, we add Lucknow (Season 7), as Phil never tells teams their placement. In all other "fake Pit Stops" Phil has been telling teams their placement before telling them to continue on. Choosing this interpretation would mean Phil was "lying" when he told teams that "this leg is not over" in other seasons.
2. A leg is not over only when Phil tells you it's not over. This means Lucknow (Season 7), Moran (Season 8 ), Moscow (Season 9), and Beijing (Season 14) were the non-Pit Stops. Choosing this interpretation would mean a leg can start without you ever hitting the mat, like in Eger, Montreal, or Helsinki.
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13x11 (Seasons 1-11) + 11x2 (Seasons 12-13) + 12x11 (Seasons 14-24) + 7 (Season 25) = 304
Where are these numbers coming from??
Using the wiki "legs/shows" the numbers are way different.
So where is your count coming from and why the big discrepancy? Just wondering....
1-5 =13
6-7 =12
8 =11
9-10 =12
11 = 13
12-14 =11
15-24 =12
25 to date =7
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13x11 (Seasons 1-11) + 11x2 (Seasons 12-13) + 12x11 (Seasons 14-24) + 7 (Season 25) = 304
Where are these numbers coming from??
Using the wiki "legs/shows" the numbers are way different.
So where is your count coming from and why the big discrepancy? Just wondering....
1-5 =13
6-7 =12
8 =11
9-10 =12
11 = 13
12-14 =11
15-24 =12
25 to date =7
Whoever counted the number of legs for the 300th leg special has a skewed counting system that is different from what is generally accepted by the fans.
First we count the number of legs (elimination legs, final 3 legs, standard non-elimination legs, keep on racing legs, double-length legs all count as 1):
01 - 05 : 13 (5 seasons)
06 - 07 : 12 (2 seasons)
08 : 11 (1 season)
09 - 10 : 12 (2 seasons)
11 : 13 (1 season)
12 - 14 : 11 (3 seasons)
15 - 24 : 12 (10 seasons)
25 : 7 (so far)
... and we have 297 legs. Now we have to separate 3 double-length legs to make them count as 2 legs instead of 1 leg each. Here are the possible ones and notes on what happened that leg:
season 6: Eger, Hungary (leg 6) - No faux pit stop
season 7: Lucknow & Jodhpur, India (leg 8 ) - Phil & mat appeared
season 8: Moran, Wyoming (leg 10) - Phil & his mat appeared
Montreal, Canada (leg 11) - No faux pit stop
season 9: Russia & Germany (leg 3) - Phil & his mat appeared
season 10: Finland & Ukraine (leg 9) - No faux pit stop
season 14: Beijing, China (leg 10) - Phil & his mat appeared, Jaime & Cara won prizes (unaired)
Somehow, these 7 double-length legs were divided to make the total count up to 300. But I think whoever had to count which leg is the 300th just did this:
(290 + (290+7))/2 = 293.5
where 290 is the number of legs before season 25
290 + 7 is the number of legs before season 25 if all double-length legs were considered 2 legs
Taking the average of the 2 numbers (290 & 297), you get 293.5, which means you need 7 legs during season 25 to pass 300.
There's also the chance that someone just miscounted :res:, which is especially jarring since the show made a big deal out of it.
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I am still with Neobie's count that either the Meet Phil are not counted as one leg, or when teams received their KOR clue, another leg started.
And I won't be surprise if they had it wrong, considering they revealed their route to be 72.000 miles but it was in fact in km... Glaring error lol
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Oh yeah... Fun fact! ;)
Using the most-widely accepted system:
the 100th leg is the Family Edition finale
the 200th leg is the 7th leg of season 17 (St. Petersburg II - Michael & Kevin's elimination)
the "300th leg" is going to be the 10th leg of season 25 (Philippines I)
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Where are these numbers coming from??
Using the wiki "legs/shows" the numbers are way different.
So where is your count coming from and why the big discrepancy? Just wondering....
I define "shows" differently from "legs," as legs are (as is evident here) pretty arbitrarily defined. I use the concept of "shows" because it makes more sense from a production standpoint. Each show fills a 60 (and in rare cases 90min) timeslot on TV. Race segments separated by a "keep on racing" are considered two shows, because they are in essence two legs in production's eyes (two Detours, two Roadblocks, two "conclusions," etc). In fact, the first manifestation of the TBC (Berlin > Eger > Budapest) was meant to be two legs/shows, but it was merged only at the last minute.
Wikipedia counts the following as "one leg," while I count them as "two shows":
6 (Berlin > Eger > Budapest)
7 (Makgadikgadi Pans > Lucknow > Jodhpur)
8 (Salt Lake City > Moran > Absarokee)
8 (Absarokee > Montreal > Lewiston)
9 (Brotas > Moscow > Munich)
10 (Antananarivo > Helsinki > Kiev)
14 (Guilin > Beijing > Beijing)
These 7 segments explain the difference of 297 legs (Wikipedia's count) and 304 shows (my count).
Wikipedia decided that double-shows (TBCs, KORs) are to be counted as two legs from Season 18 onwards. That's when Phil stopped saying "this leg of the race is not over" and they started airing the prizes given away. Wikipedia counts the following as "two legs," and I continue to count them as "two shows":
18 (Palm Springs > Sydney > Broken Hill)
18 (Yokosuka > Lijiang > Kunming)
19 (Copenhagen > Brussels > Brussels)
22 (Bora Bora > Windwhistle > Bali)
23 (Lisbon > Svolvaer > Sopot)
By my count:
The 100th show is Show 8.9 (Page > Salt Lake City)
The 200th show is Show 16.11 (Shanghai > Shanghai)
The 300th show is Show 25.3 (Oxford > Shetland)
[Paragraph about "episodes" deleted to reduce confusion!]
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I'm already confused. :groan: :groan:
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Okay I have this:
These 7 segments explain the difference of 297 legs (Wikipedia's count) and
304 shows (my count).
But how are you then getting back down to 289? ???
You lost me again, I just got the 304. :iok
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Bottom Line...NONE of us has come up with 300. :funny:
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Sorry, shouldn't have thrown in the 289 to confuse people even further! That's the number of actual episodes aired (two-hour episodes with two legs, like Chiang Mai to Hong Kong to Sydney, count as one episode). But that's irrelevant to the 300!
I personally think they counted all the times teams hit the mat as the end of a leg (that gives us 301, since there was no mat in Eger, Montreal, and Helsinki), but screwed up the counting and ended up with 300...
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Wikipedia has had a turbulent history, but through lots of arguing with one another this is what we came up with.
The official website for Season 6, as far as I remember, listed only 12 legs with "Budapest" taking up only one slot. I'm pretty sure this trend continued through to Season 10.
When Season 18 came along, there was a big huge stink as to where the end of Leg 1 was, and an entirely "new system" was dreamed up in the form of "No-rest" legs.
Following this, there was even more arguments on international versions as to whether it was a Double-Length leg or a No-Rest leg. Myself and many others were under the impression that the Sydney PS in Asia 4 and the Kunta Hora PS in Australia 1 were both Double-Length, and were not the end of the leg. However, some more stubborn heads decided they were no-rest instead.
The line is very very thin and vague. I myself prefer to think of Season 18 as introducing a "new" system and so all seasons that came after it, American or not, only use the No-Rest system (with the exception of Latin American finale legs, which are double-length).
In fact, some international versions make things even more confusing. For example, Leg 5 of the first Philippine season had host Derek telling all of the teams that "the leg was not over". However, on the very next episode, he introduces the "next"/"6th" leg. Take a look at the TARP1 page on Wikipedia to see how utterly stupid this is. There's a header with "5+6" at the top of it, because of this skewed idea that the fifth and sixth legs are considered separate, but are "SMOOSHED" together into one big long leg, which is why the leg "[was] not over".
Neobie's explanation of discounting Eger, Lucknow, Montreal and Helsinki as leg ends makes the most sense if we want to consider this leg the 300th, but I shudder at the thought because that's going to involve a whole overthrow of how most of the data I've collected works. Furthermore, I can bet you anything that these arguments will have absolutely NO ground on the Wikipedia pages, only because of a single incredibly hard-headed editor. (Look at the Talk pages for any of the recent American seasons to see the nonsense I'm talking about.)
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And really, chances are good someone at CBS just did the best they could. I am actually just glad they are celebrating anything TAR!!
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OMG yes, I also wondered how TAR came up with 300.
I've definitely expressed my opinions on how to count double/super/TBC legs before, so I was excited to see that with the show officially saying 300, we'd get the "official" stand on how legs are counted.
But I guess we've all come to the same conclusion... :crazy: :lol:
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Has anybody asked Phil? And has Phil answered? ???
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Personally I am just grateful that they are celebrating TAR, if they are off by a few I don't want to embarrass anyone who may have done the count. I am happy with any recognition for our beloved TAR!!
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Yea, it actually doesn't matter as long as they know how they have done the count.. -_-
Just be happy... it's not like Misti and Jim won 300k for winning this leg. :funny:
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My personal take is every TBC is two legs. That would make the Shetland Islands leg #300 (11x13, plus 2x11, plus 11x12 equals 297). If memory serves there have only been three TBCs without a fake Pit Stop - the original Hungary one, the Family Edition finale, and the Finland/Ukraine one in TAR10 - which would lower the count to 294 if you treat those ones as long legs and make the second Morocco episode #300. And then it's just a matter of someone at CBS making a basic counting error that left them off by one. It's not too hard to imagine how they got the count they got, even if it is clearly wrong.
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actually , in season 9 episode 5 ,
Phil introduced the first italy pit stop as "the 4th pit-stop in the race around the world"
Is it indicating that the production crew may count season 9 as a 13-leg race ?
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^^Either that or Phil was sleep derived! :funny:
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actually , in season 9 episode 5 ,
Phil introduced the first italy pit stop as "the 4th pit-stop in the race around the world"
Is it indicating that the production crew may count season 9 as a 13-leg race ?
USA > Brazil (1)
Brazil (2)
Brazil > Russia > Germany (3)
Germany > Italy (4)
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actually , in season 9 episode 5 ,
Phil introduced the first italy pit stop as "the 4th pit-stop in the race around the world"
Is it indicating that the production crew may count season 9 as a 13-leg race ?
USA > Brazil (1)
Brazil (2)
Brazil > Russia > Germany (3)
Germany > Italy (4)
oh I have typed in the wrong number )-**
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvtqNj87jPU
In this video , Phil mentioned the Germany pit-stop to be "the 4th pit-stop in the race around the world"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XAJ4Foyo8w
In this video , Phil mentioned the Montana pit-stop to be "the 11th pit-stop in the Amazing Race"
Does this means they count Season 8 and 9 two 13-legs race ?
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Phil has in no way been consistent if we look at his opening spiels!
From Season 18 onwards, all episode endings were counted as Pit Stops.
In Seasons 10 and 14, Helsinki and Beijing I were not counted as Pit Stops.
However, in Seasons 8 and 9, Moran and Moscow were counted as a Pit Stops.
Yet in Season 7, Lucknow was not counted as a Pit Stop.
In Season 6, Eger was not counted, until the finale episode when Phil called both Shanghai and Xi'an the "eleventh Pit Stop in a race around the world"!
Maybe by some random logic: Eger, Lucknow, Helsinki, and Beijing I are the non-Pit Stops, while Moran, Montreal, and Moscow (along with TAR 18 onwards non-stops) are counted? At least that gets us to 300.
:funny:
No wonder they ended up with 72,000 miles.
If only Phil called Beijing II (14) the "eleventh" Pit Stop instead of the "tenth"! Then the mystery would be solved, with Eger, Lucknow, Montreal, and Helsinki being the non-Pit Stops (none of them had team placements called out), and Moran, Moscow, and Beijing I being counted as Pit Stops...
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Phil has in no way been consistent if we look at his opening spiels!
From Season 18 onwards, all episode endings were counted as Pit Stops.
In Seasons 10 and 14, Helsinki and Beijing I were not counted as Pit Stops.
However, in Seasons 8 and 9, Moran and Moscow were counted as a Pit Stops.
Yet in Season 7, Lucknow was not counted as a Pit Stop.
In Season 6, Eger was not counted, until the finale episode when Phil called both Shanghai and Xi'an the "eleventh Pit Stop in a race around the world"!
Maybe by some random logic: Eger, Lucknow, Helsinki, and Beijing I are the non-Pit Stops, while Moran, Montreal, and Moscow (along with TAR 18 onwards non-stops) are counted? At least that gets us to 300.
:funny:
No wonder they ended up with 72,000 miles.
If only Phil called Beijing II (14) the "eleventh" Pit Stop instead of the "tenth"! Then the mystery would be solved, with Eger, Lucknow, Montreal, and Helsinki being the non-Pit Stops (none of them had team placements called out), and Moran, Moscow, and Beijing I being counted as Pit Stops...
Thing is I see that we are assuming that the pit stop means that a leg has ended in turn meaning "that was a leg". I think we need to assume that a leg is any segment that has a starting point and an ending point ( even if the ending point says keep going and move onto another "segment" ) or maybe a leg in filming doesn't equal a leg on the race... food for thought.
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Anyone has all the seasons with penultimate legs? Look at what Phil says this is the ___ pitstop in the race around the world, then add the finale leg.. we should get the total legs per season, do that for 24 times +7 legs, will we get 300? :funny:
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Just a thought, maybe they're considering Season 6 as 13 legs. Remember, that S6 was SUPPOSED to have 13 legs, with a non-elim after their visit to Eger. But when they learned that begging was illegal in Hungary, they quickly had to change plans.
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Anyone has all the seasons with penultimate legs? Look at what Phil says this is the ___ pitstop in the race around the world, then add the finale leg.. we should get the total legs per season, do that for 24 times +7 legs, will we get 300? :funny:
As ZeroRecall mentions, all this assumes that legs are defined by Pit Stops.
There's no contest for Seasons 1-5: 13 legs each.
Xi'an and Montego Bay were the "11th Pit Stop," so 12 legs for Seasons 6-7.
Absarokee was the "11th Pit Stop," but was followed by a double-leg. So either 12 or 13 legs for Season 8 depending on whether you count Montreal.
Lake Yamanaka was the "12th Pit Stop," so 13 legs for Season 9.
Barcelona was the "11th Pit Stop," so 12 legs for Season 10.
No trouble with Seasons 11-13: 13 legs for Season 11, 11 legs for Season 12 and 13.
Beijing II was the "10th Pit Stop," so 11 legs for Season 14.
And smooth sailing from then on: 12 legs for Seasons 15-24.
13+13+13+13+13 + 12+12+12(or 13)+13+12 + 13+11+11+11+12 + 12+12+12+12+12 + 12+12+12+12+7 = 299 (or 300!)
So to repeat, by TPTB's twisted logic:
Eger [6], Lucknow [7], Helsinki [10], and Beijing I [14] are not Pit Stops, while
Moran [8], Montreal [8], and Moscow [9], along with TAR 18 onwards non-stops, are.
Now try to figure out why.
Or let's give up and go to bed. :funny:
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I think we have it. They simply count Phil's pit-stop count for each season. Season 8 has 13 legs if the first TBC is actually a pit-stop... then the second one has no reason to not be.
omg. :stare
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Yeah , i have the same thoughts as Jobby.
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Have you guys solved it?
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I watched TAR Asia 2 leg 5 and Allan hasn't just described Fukuoka as 5th pitstop (Virtual pitstop) but also reveal that "The last team check-in here might be eliminated"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sO2mnrA4DM
That is also the cases for TAR Asia 4 Ep 7 (Sydney) and TAR AU 1 Ep7 (Prague 2)
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I watched TAR Asia 2 leg 5 and Allan hasn't just described Fukuoka as 5th pitstop (Virtual pitstop) but also reveal that "The last team check-in here might be eliminated"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sO2mnrA4DM
That is also the cases for TAR Asia 4 Ep 7 (Sydney) and TAR AU 1 Ep7 (Prague 2)
???
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I'm still trying to decide whether to take Neobie's post up there and edit everything on the wiki, or not...