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Archive => RFF Archived Boards => Amazing Race 21 Spoilers Archive => Topic started by: apskip on May 17, 2012, 04:45:44 PM

Title: AR21 Transportation
Post by: apskip on May 17, 2012, 04:45:44 PM
This thread will be like prior season transportation threads, to cover all the issues related to flights, train trips, ships, etc. and particularly the potential or actual schedules related to them.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: apskip on May 19, 2012, 08:40:58 AM
I want to start off with the statement that the analysis below is really not specific to AR21. It applies to all Amazing Races.

A multi-part hypothesis that interests me:
1. That since LAX has been the departure to overseas airport for 89% of AR12 to AR20, LAX will be the departure airport for AR21.
2. That the destination will be either in eastern Australasia or in Europe.
3. That nonstop flights to the destination are how it will be done because connecting flights risks sightings at the connecting airport (note - World Race Productions has violated this many times, but I think that they design a first leg with one non-stop flight whenever possible).
4. That at least 2 flights from LAX to the destination within a 3 hour period are needed to get acceptable Amazing Race first flights (this is traditionally how World Race Productions designs Amazing Races).
5. That the first flight should be between 2pm and midnight (again, this is how World Race Productions designs Amazing Races).
6. The fact that some international flights are not daily should be ignored to cut down on complexity of the analysis.
7. The first flight will not be to the Caribbean, Central America, South America or Africa (this one is not difficult because there are no LAX to Africa nonstops that I am aware of). Since we know of several Amazing Races starting to Latin America, I know that this is frequently not a valid assumption, but you have to cut the complexity of the analysis somehow.

I went to Thursday's LAX list of departures to find out the following:

TO EUROPE FITTING MY HYPOTHESIS
CDG 2 flights around 4pm
LHR 5 flights around 4 pm or 6pm
LHR 2 flights around 8pm and 9pm

TO EUROPE NOT FITTING MY HYPOTHESIS
AMS 2pm
FRA 3pm
DXB 6pm (note - Dubai is not in Europe but since it is a major hub for connecting flights it is a logical place to go)
IST 6pm
DME 6pm (surprise; it is to Moscow's second airport)
ZRH 8pm
MUC 9pm

TO ASIA FITTING MY HYPOTHESIS
PVG flights at 2pm and 3pm
TPE flights at 3pm and 5pm
PVG two flights at 7pm
SYD - 2 flights at 10pm and 1 at 12am
MEL - 3 flights at 11pm and 1 at 12am

TO ASIA NOT FITTING MY HYPOTHESIS
NRT - 4pm
SIN - 9pm
AKL - 10pm
CAN - 11pm
ICN - 11pm
BNE - 12am
HKG 12am

So, what does this mean? If the flight is headed to Europe, then London or Paris are the most logical destinations. London is my favorite as Amazing Races have only visited England in AR3 and AR17.

If the flight is headed to eastern Asia there are more possibilities. I would love to think that the undervisited destination of the Philippines would be the destination of choice, but the assumptions of my analysis make that unlikely. The logical destinations that fit the hypothesis are Shanghai, Taipei, Sydney or Melbourne. Melbourne has been least visited by a U.S. Amazing Race (so far, never).

Now, I believe that this approach is valid to statistically predict over a wide range of Amazing Races where the first destination point is. However, it would get really boring with all Amazing Races having first departures only to London, Paris, Shanghai, Taipei, Sydney or Melbourne. The criterion of nonstop flights is frequently ignored by World Race Productions as they do use some connecting flights, which opens up hundreds of cities in the target areas as potential first destinations. So you have to take this analysis for what it is, built on a chain of assumptions. If you change that assumption in particular of any other assumptions you get a situation typically too complex for reasonable conclusions.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: Dom on May 19, 2012, 09:09:26 AM
Interesting analysis apskip, though TAR also went to England in S7!
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: apskip on May 19, 2012, 09:30:41 AM
Dom El,

Yes you are right. That makes 3 visits to the entire United Kingdom in 20 Amazing Races. France has had 6 total visits, but only 5 of them were mainly focused in the greater Paris area. AR6 was to Corsica and the greater Nice area.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: Charlie90 on May 19, 2012, 10:04:10 PM
Is there any chance that they fly to Canada or Mexico to make a quick leg there and then fly from there to somewhere else?
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: Air on May 20, 2012, 12:44:04 AM
What about:
Leg 1: LAX-CDG
Leg 2: Paris- Toulouse ( Train or self driving like in TAR4) (Plane-themed challenges in Toulouse because of the airbus factory)
Leg 3: More Europe
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: apskip on May 20, 2012, 07:18:36 AM
The possibility of going to Toulouse is real, but it is just one of hundreds of cities in Europe that can be reached by connecting flights. My analysis assumed that it would be a city with 2 nonstop flights from LAX in a time frame. There are a myriad of different assumptions that can be used, but most of them will result in a very wide range of possible first destination cities, each will a small probability of being chosen for the honor.

So what you seek (Toulouse as first destination) is possible but unlikely. The same goes for each of those hundreds of cities I refer to. My rough guess is that there is at best a 50% probability that one of the 6 prime first destinations I highlight is selected by World Race Productions.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: Topita on May 20, 2012, 11:02:22 AM
Interesting analysis!  :)  :tup:
I wonder to which extent they may also factor in the 'reputation' certain airports have.
Meaning, based on experiences, some airports are more notorious than others wrt flight delays, losing luggage and generally being more disorganized.

I've flown over Istanbul a few times and it's not fun tbh, there have always been issues and the airport is pretty chaotic too.

As much as CDG is a big hub I don't always find the layout so logical (I once nearly missed a connecting flight because the check in desk was at the back hidden by others and though I speak French nobody could tell me where to go).
Also they have a lot of 'correspondances courtes' at least the times I have been taking connecting flights there. :shrug

So perhaps I am biased by my own experiences, quite possibly.  :lol:
And surely they can assist the teams somewhat to make it from gate to gate but I wonder to which extent the production would factor this in?? Personally I would much prefer to fly over LHR or Munich eg than Istanbul or Moscow for example, when it comes to connecting flights, because I think it's a lot better organized and chances of a delay are smaller.  :)
(Hope I didn't offend anyone by saying this btw, merely speaking of my own personal experiences, not saying they are generally 'true'.  :lol: )
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: Alenaveda on May 22, 2012, 08:55:02 PM
Just as a fact:  about the Caribbean and Central America, TAR never had a first leg on that area (only TARLA 2 had the starting line at Guatemala's Tikal National Park).  The closest one was Mexico in TAR3.

(BTW, you keep surprising me with your analysis, and I think you're right about it)


Alaneveda,

I was shocked to learn in an unpublished separate analysis of Central America destinations only that Mexico only qualified under my sets of assumptions with Monterey with 3 flights to there from LAX at 5pm and one each at 9pm  and 10pm. Mexico City had only one nonstop flight and thus did not qualify. The other destinations that do not qualify based on my criteria are Guadalajara, Guajanato and Leon.

I am not clear what you were saying about AR3, but the first destination there was definitely Mexico City although it originated in Miami and not LAX.

Geographically speaking (Should be the differences on educationals programs.  For us, Canada, USA and Mexico always were part of North America: everything between Mexico and Colombia's border with Panama were Central America; and from Colombia to the Strait of Magellan were South America).
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: georgiapeach on May 22, 2012, 10:13:47 PM
Back to the future TAR 21 transport please.... Thanks!
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: apskip on May 27, 2012, 12:25:15 PM
Here is the first actual set of flights for AR21 getting from LAX to Shanghai connecting in Taipei:

China Airlines  CI7    0115  0610  LAX TPE
China Airlines  CI501 0905 1050  TPE PVG

Eva Air  BR15    0135 0620  LAX TPE
Eva Air  BR712  1010 1205  TPE PVG

It is interesting to note that CI7 and BR15 were the flights taken by teams in AR19 from LAX with the nonstop destination of Taipei.

It is also interesting that my study above predicted Shanghai, Taipei, Melbourne or Sydney would be the first destination of AR21. Two of those four were involved in the flights, although my assumption of nonstops was not utilized by World Race Productions.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: theschnauzers on May 27, 2012, 01:02:54 PM
My guess is that there must be an earlier arriving flight that production used to get Phil and Bertram ahead of the teams into Shanghai. The departure times of these flights out of LAX into Taipei strongly suggest that. And this:
Quote
It is interesting to note that CI7 and BR15 were the flights taken by teams in AR19 from LAX with the nonstop destination of Taipei.

would, I think, make my reasoning even more likely, as the schedulers for the race would know how that worked to get production ahead in TAR 19 and make any necessary adjustments.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: apskip on May 27, 2012, 06:33:02 PM
the schnauzers,

There are no nonstops Phil could catch to get ahead of the teams.

However, he could connect through either Seoul or Beijing:
 
LAX ICN CA1060 1800 2345+1 connecting to OZ987 0135+2 0220+2

LAX PEK OZ966 1830 2120+1 connecting to CA1081 0300+2 0500+2

This would put Phil hours ahead of the teams, primarily because World Race Productions put teams on flights so that could happen.

This assumes that Phil can get to LAX before 5pm, which may not have been possible.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: georgiapeach on May 27, 2012, 07:32:46 PM
Too soon...
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: apskip on May 28, 2012, 04:49:54 PM
I hate it when RFF eats my homework, but this happens more than I like.

There are only a limited number of flights teams could take out of Shanghai's Pudong airport between 3am and 6am China time:
BR6371 TPE 0315
CI5818 TPE 0330
OZ998  ICN 0420
UX51    HKG 0440
HX9232 HKG 0500
KE236   ICN  0505

If you then consider where you can connect to from TPE, ICN or HKG, there are many "been there, done that" destinations and a few genuinely novel ones. I highlight those novel ones here that depart from the connecting point between 6am and 9am Monday May 29 (which it is already over there in east Asia):

from TPE - RGN 0715 HAN 0730 SGN 0730 MFM 0850 CTU 0825
from HKG - MNL 0745 CAN 0805 Cebu 0750 Kota Kinabalu multiple Qingdao multiple
from ICN - PUS multiple, MNL multiple MFM multiple FUK multiple 
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: Prophet on May 28, 2012, 07:13:37 PM
I hate it when RFF eats my homework, but this happens more than I like.

Me too. :lol3:
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: ZouLy on May 28, 2012, 07:51:59 PM
I don't know how to do the flight research so well like apskip,

but apskip, from the estimated arrival time in Jakarta, do we have any domestic connecting flights which consider the 30mins-2hrs gap? or maybe they'll take a train again...

Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: dpe on May 28, 2012, 08:12:09 PM
 Driving to Bangkalan 521.3 mi, 13 hr 2 min. not likley.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: ZouLy on May 28, 2012, 08:55:03 PM
Driving to Bangkalan 521.3 mi, 13 hr 2 min. not likley.

Fly to Surabaya first then drive that is what I said.

yeapp!!  :tup:

right now, we're waiting a confirm schedule from Prama, either with plane or train (overnight trip),

Teams could go to bangkalan in Madura island by crossing Suramadu bridge, the one I showed in speculation thread..

Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: dpe on May 28, 2012, 09:41:16 PM
http://www.travelindo.com/list_train_schedules.php?katakunci=&kategoriNya=36&cHidden=1&cSubmit=Cari

Argo Bromo Anggrek Eksekutif     21:30 Jakarta - Gambir 07:57 Surabaya - Pasarturi
Sembrani Eksekutif                    18:45 Jakarta - Gambir 07:02 Surabaya - Pasarturi
Gumarang Bisnis,Eksekutif          18:00 Jakarta - Gambir 06:45 Surabaya - Pasarturi
Bima Eksekutif                          17:00 Jakarta - Gambir 05:49 Surabaya - Gubeng
Argo Bromo Anggrek Eksekutif     09:30 Jakarta - Gambir 19:58 Surabaya - Pasarturi
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: apskip on May 28, 2012, 09:46:50 PM
I don't know how to do the flight research so well like apskip,

but apskip, from the estimated arrival time in Jakarta, do we have any domestic connecting flights which consider the 30mins-2hrs gap? or maybe they'll take a train again...


Yes, there are 15 flights of 90 minutes each between Jakarta and Surabaya from 1640 on. My next step will be to research Indonesia's national train schedule. It was useful when last needed for AR19.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: Chateau d If on May 28, 2012, 09:53:47 PM
I don't know how to do the flight research so well like apskip,

but apskip, from the estimated arrival time in Jakarta, do we have any domestic connecting flights which consider the 30mins-2hrs gap? or maybe they'll take a train again...


Yes, there are 15 flights of 90 minutes each between Jakarta and Surabaya from 1640 on. My next step will be to research Indonesia's national train schedule. It was useful when last needed for AR19.

Been there, done that!  (http://forum.realityfanforum.com/index.php/topic,27206.msg758964.html#msg758964) You can check to be sure

And here too! (http://forum.realityfanforum.com/index.php/topic,27203.msg759010.html#msg759010) for the trains.



Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: apskip on May 28, 2012, 10:02:38 PM
The official Indonesian rail system schedule website appears out of service since 26May, so the information that Chateau has provided may be the best specifics we can get. The 11 hour trip is consistent with the 450 miles between Jakarta and Surabaya. Keep in mind that there are no sleeper berths. Also keep in mind that there are several different routes usable to get from Jakarta to Surabaya by rail.

I know what I would do. I would fly!

 
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: theschnauzers on May 29, 2012, 12:00:56 AM
The show's route planning might have had the teams take trains, so they could fly Phil and production ahead of the teams. This seems like a good place to do that (as it was a good reason in TAR 19 on the first Indonesia leg).
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: Chateau d If on May 29, 2012, 12:23:49 AM

Good point!
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: ZouLy on May 29, 2012, 02:11:02 AM
OMG!! So excited!!! :hearts:

If they're going from Gambir Station again, these are the possible schedule for today:

(http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h396/kamineko23/GambirPasarTuri.png)

(http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h396/kamineko23/GambirGubeng.png)

FYI: Berangkat is Departure, Datang is Arrival :tup:


Given the schedule above,

estimated arrival time in Pasar Turi (the closest train station)

1. 6.25
2. 7.11

estimated travel time to Bangkalan (by car) is 40-45 minutes, but since it's early in the morning it might/might not get a traffic time,



Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: DrRox on May 29, 2012, 03:50:14 AM
Regarding Phil's  possible travel, Shanghai to Bangkalan.......

1st leg's over.

The above was posted @  2:38 am CDT May 28, which converts to 3:38 pm May 28 Shanghai time. At that point, Phil is done for the day. Given the distance from the pit stop to the airport......it seems reasonable that he could be at PuDong Airport by 5:30-6:00 pm to fly out.

Looking for flights out of Shanghai on the evening of May 28th.....there is not enough time to arrive in Surabaya before midnight. There is only one daily non stop flight, Shanghai to Jakarta.....the same flight the teams take on May 29. It just doesn't make much sense to keep Phil in Shanghai to fly with those teams.....better to get him to Surabaya earlier and let him rest there. So pretty improbable that he would hang around Shanghai and fly with teams on GA895.

From a production standpoint, it is really not necessary for Phil to even fly to Jakarta. Surabaya has an international airport and receives flights from Taipei, Hong Kong, Bangkok, Kuala Lumpur and Singapore. Not all of these cities have daily flights to Surabaya. On the particular days this takes place, only KL and Singapore will fit a Shanghai to Surabaya route. Phil can actually arrive in Surabaya, BEFORE teams even leave Shanghai.

Shanghi via Kuala Lumpor to Surabaya, Indonesia  May 28/29
MU 539    8:00pm - 12:50 am
AK 1392   6:45 am - 8:25 am

Shanghai via Singapore to Surabaya, Indonesia May 28/29
SQ 835  7:10 pm - 12:30 am
MI 222   7:50 am - 9:10 am

I did make some assumptons.......1) only a two leg/one connection flight. Phil could have done a 3 flight/two connection flight via Jakarta. That just doesn't make much sense to me.

2) both possible routes involve somewhat lengthy layovers in KL and Singapore. We also know that Phil flies Biz Class, so he has a bed to sleep in, on long flights. If production decides to get Phil a hotel room, both airports have very nice hotels in the airport teminal bldgs and he could take the 2nd flights out of each to Surabaya. He would still arrive in Surabaya before noon (via KL) or @ 1:30 pm (via Singapore) and still have plenty of sun to film his standups.

Phil then would have a very nice long time to rest up before having to be at the Pit Stop at the end of Leg 2 on May 30th around Bangkalan, somewhere close to probably 18 hours. In all likelihood, Phil may already finished doing his standup as I post this or very close to finishing them.

I think that the long train ride is a given for several reasons:
1) makes teams arrive in Bangkalan in daylight for HD filming. I just don't see them filming an episode in beautiful Indonesia in the dark. So I look at the train ride as a moving HoO.

2) keeps teams uncomfortable.....no beds on train. Plus, easier security for Production. 

3) Gives Phil time to catch up on sleep in a non-moving bed for first time since leaving LAX.

According to Peach in the Live Sightings Thread........there is no train ride this time.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: Xarles on May 29, 2012, 04:14:06 AM
If teams are flying to Surabaya, first flight in should be Garuda 324 arriving at 8am Tuesday EDT.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: chal_uf on May 29, 2012, 05:08:50 AM
This is flight schedule from jakarta to surabaya today http://www.flightstats.com/go/FlightStatus/flightStatusByAirport.do
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: apskip on May 29, 2012, 02:01:57 PM
Like the race designers keeping Phil ahead of the AR21 racers, it is our job to stay one leg ahead of the race progress. That means anticipating potential flights one leg at a time. I have developed some categories to make this clearer since there are many dozens of flights to any large airports throughout Australasia and onward to many other airports from those places. Those knowledgeable with combinatorial mathematics know that this creates a matrix that is quickly unmanageable. To bring a minimum amount of order, some assumptions are always necessary. 

I have developed 4 categories for where we stand leaving Denpasar tomorrow:
1. flights from Surabaya to Denpasar (because Bali has not been involved on an Amazing Race ever and Amazing Race Asia I think once)
2. flights from Surabaya to overseas (highlighting the ones I see to SIN, KUL and HKG)
3. flights from Surabaya to other cities around Indonesia except Jakarta
4. flights from Surabaya to Jakarta for the purpose of connecting there to elsewhere overseas (with Guangzhou and Kuala Lumpur especially)

All of the flights below except for two at 905am are between 6am and 9am from Surabaya and 8am to 9am from Jakarta.

From Surabaya to Denpasar:
MZ802 0610
IW1800 0735
Y6 755 0830

From Surabaya to Hong Kong:
CI780 0815

From Surabaya to Singapore:
CI752 0605
JT104 0800

From Surabaya to Kuala Lumpur:
AK1393 0850

From Surabaya to Jakarta
choice of 6 different flights in the 6am to 9am time frame

If it is a flight to Jakarta, the odds are high that it will not fly just there but will be a connection to one of these places (not including either HKG or SIN since you can fly nonstop there from SUB so why would you go to Jakarta to get there):

KUL AS1391 0835 JT285 0905
CAN GA898  0855  OR CZ388 0905
 
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: apskip on June 01, 2012, 09:13:47 AM
Based on the information reported that AR21 teams left Surabaya on GA307 0810 0930, it is logical to look for flights leaving CGK after 11am. I personally believe that excluding the numerous departures to elsewhere in Indonesia is the right thing to do now. So that leaves us looking for international flights to the north and northwest. Here they are for 11am to 12pm:

to Kuala Lumpur- MH710 1103, JT280 113?

to Jeddah - JT110 1117, GA980 1217

to Singapore - JT134 1126,  GA828 1202

So there it is, KL, Jeddah or Singapore. From either KL or Singapore there are many options locally or flying onward.


Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: mjriches2005 on June 01, 2012, 11:56:06 AM
Based on the information reported that AR21 teams left Surabaya on GA307 0810 0930, it is logical to look for flights leaving CGK after 11am. I personally believe that excluding the numerous departures to elsewhere in Indonesia is the right thing to do now. So that leaves us looking for international flights to the north and northwest. Here they are for 11am to 12pm:

to Kuala Lumpur- MH710 1103, JT280 113?

to Jeddah - JT110 1117, GA980 1217

to Singapore - JT134 1126,  GA828 1202

So there it is, KL, Jeddah or Singapore. From either KL or Singapore there are many options locally or flying onward.

Jeddah would probally be off that list, especially since some of the teams are all-female, coed non family-related, and we have a homosexual team as well.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: theschnauzers on June 01, 2012, 12:46:53 PM
Given that teams used four-segmented, connecting flights last season flying from Kochi to Hiroshima, I don't know what can be ruled out as an international destination, other than I doubt the teams will be headed back out ieastward towards the Americas.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: apskip on June 01, 2012, 04:45:51 PM
The information from Peach that teams actually flew Surabaya to Singapore makes the listing of all flights today June 1 relevant:

CI752 0558 0912
JT104 0800 1120
MI221 1000 1305
VF248 1535 1847
MI225 1840 2307

So pay your money and take your choice on which one was the one most teams took. I have no idea withotu additional information on either end of this journey.

I will say that flights directly out of Surabaya makes great sense to me (see my earlier post on that).
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: Chateau d If on June 01, 2012, 05:21:24 PM
You need to use June 2nd.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: georgiapeach on June 01, 2012, 05:55:27 PM
And it is China Air arr 0925
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: apskip on June 02, 2012, 09:21:00 AM
OK, if it was arrival Singapore at 925am 2 June, then it makes sense to look at where teams might have gone if they flew onward from SIN (which I expect they did do). Unfortunately, it gets complicated beyond the powers of reasonable analysis. I imposed only these minimal assumptions:
1. Departures from Singapore's Changi airport in hourly blocks between 11am and 3pm
2. Nothing east except Manila
3. Nothing to North America or Europe
4. Nothing to any city that I did not know where it is or anything about it (example - Medan)
5. Only to destinations in directions north, northwest or west

Here is what you get:
11am - 12pm

KUL
MAA
PEN
KCH
SGN

12pm - 1pm
TPE
SGN
MNL
BKK
KUL
WUH
HKG
HAN

1pm - 2pm
BKK
HAN
HKG
SGN
TPE
HKT
PEN
RGN
CAN
KUL
MFM

2pm - 3pm
HKG
KUL
MNL
HKG
RGN
ICN
REP
DAC
BKK
CMB
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: apskip on June 02, 2012, 12:43:40 PM
Leafsfan has predicted Colombo as the destination of AR21 teams based on special information he has received. Note that the last entry on my list in my prior post was CMB. Flights from SIN to CMB on June 2 were:

EK349 0120 0210 Note - too early due to reported arrival in Singapore at 0925

UL303 1523 1610
CX711 2130 2241
SQ468 2245 2355

To my thinking, it has to be UL303 since that is a 6 hour layover in Changi airport and the others are 12 to 13 hours, which makes no sense.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: theschnauzers on June 02, 2012, 01:22:09 PM
And it fits the pattern WRP has followed in recent seasons to have teams go to airports and end up finding there's only one flight combination to get to their next destination country. (In this case, connecting through Jakarta and Singapote on the way (doesn't rule out there being yet another connecting within country flight once teams raach the destination country, but let's not make it too complicated.) :)
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: apskip on June 05, 2012, 05:40:03 PM
I want to keep up with the missing transportation segments of AR21m as best I can. Here is what the choices were Singapore to Dhaka with the assumption of 3 June as the date:
SQ441 2030 2228
TR8654 2310 0100

The same choices from Hong Kong to Dhaka were:
KA742 1825 2020
EK929 1912 2035

And to go further, because it is a conceivable connecting point, here are the flights from Kuala Lumpur to Dhaka:
BG57 0215 0400
MH196 2229 0017










Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: DrRox on June 06, 2012, 02:55:31 AM
I want to keep up with the missing transportation segments of AR21m as best I can. Here is what the choices were Singapore to Dhaka with the assumption of 3 June as the date:


You just transposed the date wrong, apskip. I doubt (and I think you will agree) that it is highly improbable that teams would fly from Surabaya to Singapore on June 2 and then fly from Singapore to Dhaka on June 3.....here is your orginal post about a connection SIN>DAC on the afternoon of June 2.

OK, if it was arrival Singapore at 925am 2 June, then it makes sense to look at where teams might have gone if they flew onward from SIN (which I expect they did do). Unfortunately, it gets complicated beyond the powers of reasonable analysis.

2pm - 3pm
DAC

That flight is BG  85   2:40pm--4:35 pm. on June 2, 2012.....it does not fly on June 3, 2012, btw.

So it is possible that teams arrived in Dhaka @ approx 5:00 pm on June 2, to finish Leg 4 in late afternoon/early evening.....or better would be to have an HoO and finish middle of the day on June3. Then pit stop till morning of June 4......and most of the day for Leg 5........then pit stop release about noon on June 5. That would give teams two flight options to get to Dubai...
4H 591  5:15pm---8:35pm
EK 585  9:30pm---12:58 am (June 6)

We know from the pilot's tweet that some teams were on the EK 585 flight.....but we just don't know how many.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: DrRox on June 06, 2012, 03:07:26 AM
Jens Krueger ‏@Jens_Krueger
So excited to have had “The Amazing Race” on the aircraft today from Dhaka to Dubai! Good luck to the racers! #TAR @Ihnatko

This tweet was made at 1:01 am, June 6 in Dubai. So I would assume he had just landed and that would make his flight EK 585  9:30 pm(10:03pm)---12:25am(12:58am). The other earlier flight EK 583 arrived in Dubai @ 2:30 pm June 5. I just dont think that pilot would wait till after midnight (10 hours) to post the tweet.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: DrRox on June 06, 2012, 02:09:16 PM
Well with the two Istanbul tweets today.....we could have teams on following intinaries......

DAC>DXB on June 5, 2012
4H 591  5:15pm---8:35pm
EK 585  9:30pm---12:58 am (June 6)

DXB>IST on June 6, 2012
TK 761    2:35 am---6:34am
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: Chateau d If on June 06, 2012, 02:30:44 PM
I'm thinking that another way the Teams spotted by our tweeting pilot went like this:

                                  Flight                   Sched'd Take Off    Actual    Sched'd Ar  Actual
June 5th DAC to DXB  EK 585   Emirates    9:30 PM    10:03 PM       12:25 AM    12:58 AM
June 6th DXB to KWI  EK 853   Emirates    1:45 AM    1:52 AM        2:25 AM    2:31 AM
June 6th KWI to IST   TK 771   Turkish Air   7:10 AM    7:20 AM            10:55 AM    10:47 AM
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: Chateau d If on June 10, 2012, 01:03:44 PM
the schnauzers,

There are no nonstops Phil could catch to get ahead of the teams.

However, he could connect through either Seoul or Beijing:
 
LAX ICN CA1060 1800 2345+1 connecting to OZ987 0135+2 0220+2

LAX PEK OZ966 1830 2120+1 connecting to CA1081 0300+2 0500+2

This would put Phil hours ahead of the teams, primarily because World Race Productions put teams on flights so that could happen.

This assumes that Phil can get to LAX before 5pm, which may not have been possible.

Considering that CA 1060 and OZ966 did not  fly out of LAX on May 26th the race start day it looks like Phil had to travel on the same flights as the Teams. 

There is one way he could have arrived ahead by an hour or so:

KE 12 leaving LAX at 11:30 pm and arriving ICN at 4:20 am
KE 893 leaving ICN at 8:45 am and arriving PVG at 9:40 am

But that does not buy very much lead time over Teams getting in at 10:50 am.

I can't find any better way! 
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: apskip on June 11, 2012, 03:12:52 PM
I want to offer a number of flights that have not been covered yet in this thread.

First is Colombo to Dhaka (since Peach definitely stated that teams flew on SQ468 which goes SIN CMB) Dec. 3 MJ501 0730 1115. However, the logical date for that is Dec. 3 and that single nonstop flight that day was cancelled. I can guess that teams scrambled to get connecting flights in India or Bangkok to reach Bangladesh.

Next is Dhaka to Istanbul, which can be done nonstop but only on TK713 0539 1156 on Dec. 7, making Bangladesh a very long series of 2 pit stops including an extended one.

No flights exist from IST to DME, so teams must have flow into SVO. Possibilties on Dec. 8 IST SVO are:
SU2135 0155 0532
SU2131 1351 1729
SU2133 22250152+1

I do not subscribe to Dom El's theory that there is another leg hiding there between Moscow-Sheremetyevo and Amsterdam. I do agree with evidence that teams arrived in Amsterdam on Dec. 10. Here are the possible flights:
KL902 0532 0651
SU2550 1103 1220
KL904 1754 1919
SU2552 2114 2233
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: Alenaveda on June 11, 2012, 03:34:57 PM
I want to offer a number of flights that have not been covered yet in this thread.

First is Colombo to Dhaka (since Peach definitely stated that teams flew on SQ468 which goes SIN CMB) Dec. 3 MJ501 0730 1115. However, the logical date for that is Dec. 3 and that single nonstop flight that day was cancelled. I can guess that teams scrambled to get connecting flights in India or Bangkok to reach Bangladesh.

Next is Dhaka to Istanbul, which can be done nonstop but only on TK713 0539 1156 on Dec. 7, making Bangladesh a very long series of 2 pit stops including an extended one.

No flights exist from IST to DME, so teams must have flow into SVO. Possibilties on Dec. 8 IST SVO are:
SU2135 0155 0532
SU2131 1351 1729
SU2133 22250152+1

I do not subscribe to Dom El's theory that there is another leg hiding there between Moscow-Sheremetyevo and Amsterdam. I do agree with evidence that teams arrived in Amsterdam on Dec. 10. Here are the possible flights:
KL902 0532 0651
SU2550 1103 1220
KL904 1754 1919
SU2552 2114 2233

You mean June 3, June 7 and June 10, right? :tup:
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: apskip on June 11, 2012, 04:41:13 PM
Yes, Alenaveda, I did inadvertently write down Dec. when I meant June. I'm sure I was channeling AR20 And ARAus2. Rest assured that all the flight information was from the June dates. I have corrected it on my post. Thanks for your keen eyesight.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: DrRox on June 11, 2012, 04:57:30 PM
@eulaelie
My mum was on the same flight as the contestants of The Amazing Race. She should've taken photos...
2 hours ago

@eulaelie
She was sitting next to the cameraman, spoke to the contestants and ahhhhh so interesting!!!!
2 hours ago

@eulaelie
Supposedly gorgeous cameramen... (:lol:)
2 hours ago


Contacting them as we speak!

The tweeter has replied and has said the flight was on June 2nd and teams traveled from Singapore onto Dhaka, Bangladesh! :hearts:

ETA: The flight was SQ446 from Singapore -> Dhaka. Their mum apparently talked to our goatie/biker couple (apparently they're from Georgia!) labeled "Unknown & Kelly(?)" in the Timeline thread :tup:

Just moving this over here for later analysis/intrepretation, since it deals with transportation.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: apskip on June 11, 2012, 05:52:48 PM
Dr. Rox's point, although unstated, was that the information that teams connected in Colombo had to be inaccurate because SQ446 was a nonstop from Singapore to Dhaka, departing 2037 arriving 2235 on June 2.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: georgiapeach on June 12, 2012, 12:30:53 PM
CMB was misinformation, I believe.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: apskip on June 13, 2012, 03:17:30 PM
For those who believe that you have to connect in Barcelona or Madrid to get to Mallorca from Amsterdam, that is incorrect. Here is today's morning flight:

Transavia 5629 AMS PMI 0632 0856

There is also an evening flight which might have been used last night:

Vueling 2902 AMS PMI 1905 2134
 
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: apskip on June 13, 2012, 03:23:29 PM
There are those who are calling for examination of flight combinations from Mallorca to the U.S. I think that is foolish because AR21 is not ready to finish yet. There is probably one more location and it can be anywhere in Europe or west Africa or Central America or even South America. Also, the U.S. final destination could be a wide range of places. I do hope that it will be an East Coast city.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: Alenaveda on June 13, 2012, 03:39:10 PM
There are those who are calling for examination of flight combinations from Mallorca to the U.S. I think that is foolish because AR21 is not ready to finish yet. There is probably one more location and it can be anywhere in Europe or west Africa or Central America or even South America. Also, the U.S. final destination could be a wide range of places. I do hope that it will be an East Coast city.

This remind me of something you previously posted, and I start to think is right:

At the moment, I suspect Amsterdam is the tenth leg.
I think we've had two legs each in Indonesia, Bangladesh, Turkey, Russia.
I can see the Netherlands being a single leg to set teams up for a leg in the Americas somewhere, or countries in the Atlantic Ocean/Caribbean Sea before returning to the U.S.

It's anyone's guess. However, let me point out that Amazing Races almost always end on either a Saturday or a Sunday in the U.S. If the final location before the finale is in Europe, then he flights would take off early morning in Europe to land late morning U.S. My point is that I think there are another 3 legs in Europe, Africa, South America or Central America before the finale. That means that there were no second legs in Russia or in Turkey.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: georgiapeach on June 13, 2012, 06:02:48 PM
We should have at least one more leg.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: apskip on June 15, 2012, 06:30:08 AM
I have some ideas on where the next leg could be. The one major city in Europe never visited by an Amazing Race is Madrid and another is Seville.

The major destinations from Mallorca are Germany, the mainland in Spain and the United Kingdom. Air Berlin holds the majority of destinations at the airport, including Alicante, Amsterdam, Barcelona, Frankfurt, Hamburg, Madrid, Valencia, Seville and Murcia. Air Europa offers flights to Granada, Malaga, Paris-Orly and Rome-Fiumicino, and Iberworld flies to Aberdeen. Easyjet and Ryanair, two very popular low-cost airline companies offer a number of destinations from the airport as well. Other prominent airline carriers departing from Palma de Mallorca Airport include Lufthansa, Thomas Cook Airlines, Thomson Airways, Norwegian Air Shuttle, Bmibaby, Jet2 and Vueling.

When I look at today's departures (yesterday's would be similar), I found only 2 nonstop to Seville, although you can connect in Madrid to get there. These nonstops were at 1515 this afternoon and at 2215 tonight.

To Madrid there are a wealth of flights:
0636
0820
0929
1015
1235
1240
1515
1540
1905
2025
2130


Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: DrRox on June 15, 2012, 08:05:27 AM
Since they are in Spain....I started researching flights "Across the Pond." There are lots of them to many destinations......but two just sort of stuck out to me.......they might not stick out to anyone else, fwiw

US 743   Barcelona to Philly.......arrives at 1 pm.....plenty of time to run a leg after that.
US 741   Madrid to Phily ...........arrives avg between 2-3 pm.......lots of light.

June 21 is longest day of the year.....and as the_schnauzers has posted already......the higher the latitude.......the longer the day.

Plus it would be fun to watch the TAR winners run up the "Rocky Steps!!"

Won't happen....but would still be fun.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: dpe on June 15, 2012, 09:43:46 AM
Since they are in Spain....I started researching flights "Across the Pond." There are lots of them to many destinations......but two just sort of stuck out to me.......they might not stick out to anyone else, fwiw

US 743   Barcelona to Philly.......arrives at 1 pm.....plenty of time to run a leg after that.
US 741   Madrid to Phily ...........arrives avg between 2-3 pm.......lots of light.

June 21 is longest day of the year.....and as the_schnauzers has posted already......the higher the latitude.......the longer the day.

Plus it would be fun to watch the TAR winners run up the "Rocky Steps!!"

Won't happen....but would still be fun.


Lots of East coast speculation, which I think would be interesting, but lots of other options.

11:55 am → 2:15 pm MAD-ORD S M T W T F S Iberia 6275

 1:00 pm → 4:30 pm MAD-DFW S M T W T F S American 37

to mention a few
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: apskip on June 15, 2012, 12:03:42 PM
dpe,

Yes there are flights to the Midwest (ORD and DFW) from MAD, but my personal bet is that it is long overdue for an East Coast destination from Europe to be the way teams teams. So, here is a comprehensive list of times for Madrid departures to the major East Coast airports, except for Orlando which has no nonstop flights from Madrid:

BOS - on Sunday 1355

JFK - on Saturday: 1225 1350 1650; on Sunday, same + 1730

EWR - on Saturday and Sunday 1135

PHL - on Saturday and Sunday 1220

IAD - on Saturday and Sunday 1100

ATL - on Sunday 1100

MIA - on Saturday 1100 1200; on Sunday same + 1425

I know that World Race Productions likes to bring teams home as early as possible in the day, due to traffic and making spotting them more difficult. My conclusion is that Washington is the most probable destination, having never had either an Amazing Race first or last leg.


 
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: dpe on June 15, 2012, 12:47:50 PM
Washington would be a very visible location don't you think? plus, this time of year it's packed with visitors, but most of the big cities will be packed.  would make an interesting ending city.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: apskip on June 15, 2012, 12:59:25 PM
dpe,

There are places in any metropolitan area which are more secluded and less open to viewing by outsiders. Washington has many of those. I do not expect WRP to attempt the Mall or near any of the Smithsonian Museums. WRP has done a very good job in AR1 (NYC Queens), AR4 (Phoenix), AR5 (Fort Worth), AR13 (Portland) and AR19 (Atlanta) of finding parks or private grounds where the finish line could go undetected.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: apskip on June 15, 2012, 01:12:36 PM
I haven't seen any photographic evidence that places teams in France. Nevertheless, since the race is likely to return to the U.S. in the next 24 or 48 hours it is prudent to examine the possible flights from Paris-CDG to East Coast cities. Here they are (all except Orlando being both Saturday and Sunday):

BOS 1325 1335 1910

JFK 0820 1025 1130 1350 1355 1635 1710 1810 1830

EWR 0925 1305

PHL 1130 1825

IAD 1035 1205 1530

CLT 1110

ATL 1055 1330 1600

MCO 1355 (Sunday only)

MIA 1000 1055

This time, due to more earlier times than for Madrid, I think a wider range of cities makes good sense. I could see Newark, Philadelphia, Washington or Charlotte being the finale metro area. Because JFK, Atlanta and Miami have all hosted Amazing Race finales, I don't think they will be selected this time.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: Xarles on June 15, 2012, 01:21:52 PM
...prudent to examine the possible flights from Paris-CDG to East Coast cities...

Remember the Orly/Charles de Gaulle case?

It should be prudent that we check out all combinations.

Paris: CDG, ORY, LBG
NY: JFK, EWR, LGA
DC: IAD, BWI...
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: apskip on June 15, 2012, 02:04:33 PM
Xarles,

Feel free to check out all those possibilities. I do not have the time to do so. I can tell you that I flew to/from Orly to the U.S. almost 30 years ago, but flights have changed and there are few U.S. East Coast to/from Orly today.

Wasn't Le Bourget last used in 1927 when Charles Lindbergh landed there?

If you have ever landed at LaGuardia you would know how short its runways are and why no flights to/from Europe are scheduled from there. I provided details for both JFK and EWR, so I am confident that the NYC metro area airports are covered. 

I have never heard of any European flights landing at BWI but at least that is a decent sized airport. I will take a look at that one only.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: apskip on June 15, 2012, 02:16:01 PM
Xarles,

Don't be confused by the "International" in Baltimore/Washington International Airport. It's not. There is one flight from Europe arriving from London apparently every day, but that's it. THERE IS DEFINITELY NOTHING FROM CDG.

The only other international flight arrivals that I spotted were from Toronto (there's 2), Punta Cana, Cancun and Montego Bay.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: dpe on June 15, 2012, 02:29:30 PM
10:35 am → 12:55 pm CDG-IAD S M T W T F S Air France 28
12:25 pm → 3:09 pm CDG-IAD S M T W T F S United 915
4:30 pm → 7:00 pm CDG-IAD S M T W T F S Air France 26


11:30 am → 2:00 pm CDG-PHL S M T W T F S US Airways 755
1:25 pm → 4:10 pm CDG-PHL S M T W T F S Delta 197


8:20 am → 10:30 am CDG-JFK S M T W T F S Air France 22
10:30 am → 12:35 pm CDG-JFK S M T W T F S Air France 12
11:00 am → 1:25 pm CDG-JFK S M T W T F S American 45
1:50 pm → 4:30 pm CDG-JFK S M T W T F S Delta 185
1:55 pm → 4:10 pm CDG-JFK S M T W T F S Air France 6


8:25 am → 12:00 pm CDG-EWR S M T W T F S United 57
10:45 am → 1:20 pm ORY-EWR S M T W T F - Openskies 1
1:10 pm → 3:50 pm CDG-EWR S M T W T F S United 55
1:40 pm → 4:15 pm ORY-EWR S M T W T F S Openskies 3

10:30 am → 12:30 pm CDG-ORD S M T W T F S Air France 664
11:15 am → 1:09 pm CDG-ORD S M T W T F S United 943
12:15 pm → 2:25 pm CDG-ORD S M T W T F S American 41


Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: paldog123456 on June 15, 2012, 02:39:14 PM

Just saying... :lol:

I have a friend that works at the airport, so I have asked him to keep an eye out for anything special...

10:40 am → 1:55 pm CDG-DTW SMTWTFS Delta 591
1:35 pm → 4:20 pm CDG-DTW SMTWTFS Air France 378

If there is a sighting, I will be there. Guaranteed.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: Xarles on June 15, 2012, 02:42:12 PM

8:20 am → 10:30 am CDG-JFK S M T W T F S Air France 22
10:30 am → 12:35 pm CDG-JFK S M T W T F S Air France 12
11:00 am → 1:25 pm CDG-JFK S M T W T F S American 45
1:50 pm → 4:30 pm CDG-JFK S M T W T F S Delta 185
1:55 pm → 4:10 pm CDG-JFK S M T W T F S Air France 6


8:25 am → 12:00 pm CDG-EWR S M T W T F S United 57
10:45 am → 1:20 pm ORY-EWR S M T W T F - Openskies 1
1:10 pm → 3:50 pm CDG-EWR S M T W T F S United 55
1:40 pm → 4:15 pm ORY-EWR S M T W T F S Openskies 3


Thanks dpe, I'm going to stick to these above and search for any other carrier in the route.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: Joeyengen on June 15, 2012, 02:47:03 PM
Airfrance 332 - CDG - BOS (Arrives Boston at 3:20 pm)

American Airlines 147 - CDG - BOS   (Arrives Boston at 3:15 pm)

Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: apskip on June 15, 2012, 02:49:03 PM
dpe,

Except for the Orly to Newark flights, you are pretty much just repeating what I have above (although adding arrival times and flights numbers).

My research shows that tomorrow only EC3 will operate on that route. On Sunday both EC1 and EC3 will operate. It does show agreement that there are 3 flights leaving Orly for the U.S. in the next 48 hours.

To keep it in perspective, with 25.5 other flights going to the designated East Cost cities (including the 2 from CDG to EWR), what is the probability that the ORY EWR route will be chosen? By straight arithmetic it would be 8%. Newark was the terminus of the flight connection of Lyn and Karlyn in the AR10 finale, but I don't think that counts as a "been there done that" because it was extraordinary circumstances that had them on that route. So it is likely to be above 8% in real probability if WRP does not choose JFK or ATL or MIA.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: DrRox on June 15, 2012, 02:49:44 PM
Two flights today from Mallorca to Paris Orly.....

VY 2852      9:00am---11:00am
UX 297       2:40pm---4:50pm
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: DallasGumby on June 15, 2012, 02:51:53 PM
10:35 am → 12:55 pm CDG-IAD S M T W T F S Air France 28
12:25 pm → 3:09 pm CDG-IAD S M T W T F S United 915
4:30 pm → 7:00 pm CDG-IAD S M T W T F S Air France 26


11:30 am → 2:00 pm CDG-PHL S M T W T F S US Airways 755
1:25 pm → 4:10 pm CDG-PHL S M T W T F S Delta 197


8:20 am → 10:30 am CDG-JFK S M T W T F S Air France 22
10:30 am → 12:35 pm CDG-JFK S M T W T F S Air France 12
11:00 am → 1:25 pm CDG-JFK S M T W T F S American 45
1:50 pm → 4:30 pm CDG-JFK S M T W T F S Delta 185
1:55 pm → 4:10 pm CDG-JFK S M T W T F S Air France 6


8:25 am → 12:00 pm CDG-EWR S M T W T F S United 57
10:45 am → 1:20 pm ORY-EWR S M T W T F - Openskies 1
1:10 pm → 3:50 pm CDG-EWR S M T W T F S United 55
1:40 pm → 4:15 pm ORY-EWR S M T W T F S Openskies 3

10:30 am → 12:30 pm CDG-ORD S M T W T F S Air France 664
11:15 am → 1:09 pm CDG-ORD S M T W T F S United 943
12:15 pm → 2:25 pm CDG-ORD S M T W T F S American 41

There's also:
1:25 - 3:35, CDG-BOS, American 147
1:35 - 3:20, CDG-BOS, Air France 332
Both are Saturday and Sunday
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: Xarles on June 15, 2012, 03:16:29 PM
I am adding Air India. These are the ones that I'll be watching:

SATURDAY JUNE 16    Depart    Arrival
                        Sched    Possible           Gate
AF 22   Air France    CDG T-2E    10:30 AM     9:38 AM     JFK T-1
AI 101   Air India    CDG T-2F    11:40 AM     9:46 AM     JFK T-4
AF 12   Air France    CDG T-2E    12:35 PM    11:43 AM JFK T-1
AA 45   American   CDG T-2A  1:25 PM    1:25 PM   JFK T-8 C39
DL 185   Delta         CDG T-2E  4:30 PM    4:30 PM   JFK T-3
AF 6           Air France    CDG T-2E     4:10 PM    4:10 PM    JFK T-1
UA 57   United       CDG T-1   12:00 PM   12:00 PM  EWR T-B
UA 55   United       CDG T-1     3:50 PM    3:50 PM   EWR T-B
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: georgiapeach on June 15, 2012, 05:24:03 PM
If they are in Normandy, then Brussels has to considered also.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: DrRox on June 15, 2012, 08:01:14 PM
If they do fly out of Nantes.......then

AF 7721     7:30am--8:40am     Nantes to Paris (CDG)

This is early enough, to be able to catchconnect any of the flights to the US.

And since Brussels has earlier departures and arrivals to a lot of the US destinations.....

YS 3152     8:05--9:25         Nantes to Brussels, but this is on a very small commuter jet.....about 45 seats.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: apskip on June 15, 2012, 08:38:20 PM
Yes, that works. An alternative is the TGV high-speed train.

Teams appear to be near LeMans, so that has the best train, all the way to CDG 1133 1311.

Nantes is another possibility. It has TGV service to Paris-Montparnasse 0730 0941 or 0900 1115. From there the Air France shuttle bus takes 30 minutes. 

Teams have to get to Rennes about 37 miles from Mont St. Michel. If they reach Rennes before 8am, they can take the 0803 train arriving Paris-Montparnasse at 1022. Then they can get a 30 minute Air France Shuttle bus to CDG.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: apskip on June 15, 2012, 08:58:08 PM
Now that I have had an opportunity to read the new AR21 information, the train origination points presented abovee do not make as much sense as from Tours. That is the center of the chateaux region of the Loire Valley. Her is the best train option:

Dep. 0845 switch at St. Pierre des Cor arrive CDG 1045
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: georgiapeach on June 15, 2012, 10:00:28 PM
We see them leaving the Chateau by car.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: Xarles on June 15, 2012, 11:10:58 PM
We see them leaving the Chateau by car.

We see them leaving the Chateau by "The all-new 2013 Ford Escape. The smarter way to get there." (I want my money, Ford :) )
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: Alenaveda on June 15, 2012, 11:14:05 PM
We see them leaving the Chateau by car.

We see them leaving the Chateau by "The all-new 2013 Ford Escape. The smarter way to get there." (I want my money, Ford :) )

 :lol3: :lol3: :lol3:
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: DrRox on June 16, 2012, 07:10:24 AM



8:20 am → 10:30 am CDG-JFK S M T W T F S Air France 22
8:25 am → 12:00 pm CDG-EWR S M T W T F S United 57



I just never realized that Newark was that far from JFK..................


Actually, I just think it is a typo. My two databases show that UA 57 departs at 9:25am and not at 8:25am.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: georgiapeach on June 16, 2012, 08:03:40 AM
If it is today, flights will be in air!
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: DrRox on June 16, 2012, 08:08:55 AM
Yep....the first flight......AF22 is about 40 minutes away from wheels down at JFK.


BTW, AF22 is an Airbus 380. I just hate it when they change the database after I post....lol
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: apskip on June 16, 2012, 03:54:28 PM



8:20 am → 10:30 am CDG-JFK S M T W T F S Air France 22
8:25 am → 12:00 pm CDG-EWR S M T W T F S United 57



I just never realized that Newark was that far from JFK..................


Actually, I just think it is a typo. My two databases show that UA 57 departs at 9:25am and not at 8:25am.
Dr. Rox,

I agree with your concern. My post stated that there is a 820am flight CDG JFK and a 925am flight CDG EWR.

It is 36 miles from JFK to Newark Liberty International Airport, but that includes the Belt Parkway, Verrazano Narrows Bridge and cross-Staten Island expressway. It usually takes at least one hour and in high traffic periods can be a lot more.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: Joeyengen on June 18, 2012, 07:04:30 PM
i found a flight

Air Berlin flight  9143 depart Palma de Mallorca at 7:50 am and arrives Tegel at 10:05 am

Air Berlin flight 7248 departs Tegel at 1:00 pm and arrives New York JFK Airport at 3:25 pm

Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: georgiapeach on June 18, 2012, 07:31:11 PM
Nice Joey! But unfortunately they arrived earlier....
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: redskevin88 on June 18, 2012, 07:44:51 PM
We see them leaving the Chateau by car.

We see them leaving the Chateau by "The all-new 2013 Ford Escape. The smarter way to get there." (I want my money, Ford :) )

How do you know they didn't use a 2013 Explorer or 2013 Ford Focus?
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: Xarles on June 18, 2012, 07:52:07 PM
We see them leaving the Chateau by car.

We see them leaving the Chateau by "The all-new 2013 Ford Escape. The smarter way to get there." (I want my money, Ford :) )

How do you know they didn't use a 2013 Explorer or 2013 Ford Focus?

It is in the Chenonceau pictures. Two identical 2013 Escapes. Coincidence?
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: redskevin88 on June 19, 2012, 06:35:37 AM
We see them leaving the Chateau by car.

We see them leaving the Chateau by "The all-new 2013 Ford Escape. The smarter way to get there." (I want my money, Ford :) )

How do you know they didn't use a 2013 Explorer or 2013 Ford Focus?

It is in the Chenonceau pictures. Two identical 2013 Escapes. Coincidence?

Didn't see them. Sorry.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: Alenaveda on August 29, 2012, 10:50:43 PM
The cast announcement today has shaken loose another sighting. From Facebook earlier today:

So glad the word is out. We met Josh and Brent on the Talgo Night Train to Paris in June when they were in the middle of racing and filming. Caroline and I will be watching on the 30th and cheering them on. Spoiler alert, when we met them there were four teams left!


I don't know if this is something we already knew or not, but it appears that the Beekman Boys are in the final four. They are getting one of the largest reactions on Twitter, so that will probably help ratings.  :tup: The fact that the Facebook poster doesn't mention other teams may be bad news for the Beekman Boys though.

Also, I'm not sure we ever nailed down which trains were used in France, so this may help with that.


About the trains, I found this:

The Talgo Elipsos Hotel Train provides overnight train service between France and Spain and Spain and Switzerland and Spain and Italy. Routes and travel times are:

Francisco de Goya - Paris to Madrid and Madrid to Paris 13h 21m
Joan Miro - Paris to Barcelona and Barcelona to Paris 12h 06m
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: DrRox on August 29, 2012, 11:31:25 PM
The Joan Miro--Talgo Elipsos Hotel Train--Barcelona to Paris makes more sense to me, than Madrid to Paris. Current departure is 21:05 from Barcelona and arrival in Paris at 09:02. Current ticket prices are Gran Class = $338 per person, First Class = $275 per person and Tourist Class = $192 per person in 4 person rooms.


The Francisco de Goya--Talgo Elipsos Hotel Train--Madrid to Paris. Train leaves Madrid at 18:15 and arrives in Paris at 08:27. Current fares are the same as the Barcelona to Paris fares.

I think train choice depends on just what time that production wanted teams to arrive in Paris. I need to look at driving time to the chateaus in the Loire Valley and the times teams were observed there....that might help in determining which train.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: Alenaveda on August 29, 2012, 11:37:38 PM
The cast announcement today has shaken loose another sighting. From Facebook earlier today:

So glad the word is out. We met Josh and Brent on the Talgo Night Train to Paris in June when they were in the middle of racing and filming. Caroline and I will be watching on the 30th and cheering them on. Spoiler alert, when we met them there were four teams left!


I don't know if this is something we already knew or not, but it appears that the Beekman Boys are in the final four. They are getting one of the largest reactions on Twitter, so that will probably help ratings.  :tup: The fact that the Facebook poster doesn't mention other teams may be bad news for the Beekman Boys though.

Also, I'm not sure we ever nailed down which trains were used in France, so this may help with that.


About the trains, I found this:

The Talgo Elipsos Hotel Train provides overnight train service between France and Spain and Spain and Switzerland and Spain and Italy. Routes and travel times are:

Francisco de Goya - Paris to Madrid and Madrid to Paris 13h 21m
Joan Miro - Paris to Barcelona and Barcelona to Paris 12h 06m


And I also found this (I hope this is the right one):

MADRID-PARIS
MADRID - Chamartin         19.00
Valladolid                         21.20
Burgos                                 22.21
Vitoria                                 23.39
Poitiers                                   6.21
Blois                                   7.40
PARIS - Bercy station           9.00

BARCELONA-PARIS
BARCELONA - France         21.05
Girona                                 22.17
Figueres                                 22.47
Limoges                                   5.04
Orleans                                   7.40
PARIS - Austerlitz                   9.00

All this services run from Monday to Sunday.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: Alenaveda on August 29, 2012, 11:45:38 PM
The cast announcement today has shaken loose another sighting. From Facebook earlier today:

So glad the word is out. We met Josh and Brent on the Talgo Night Train to Paris in June when they were in the middle of racing and filming. Caroline and I will be watching on the 30th and cheering them on. Spoiler alert, when we met them there were four teams left!


I don't know if this is something we already knew or not, but it appears that the Beekman Boys are in the final four. They are getting one of the largest reactions on Twitter, so that will probably help ratings.  :tup: The fact that the Facebook poster doesn't mention other teams may be bad news for the Beekman Boys though.

Also, I'm not sure we ever nailed down which trains were used in France, so this may help with that.


About the trains, I found this:

The Talgo Elipsos Hotel Train provides overnight train service between France and Spain and Spain and Switzerland and Spain and Italy. Routes and travel times are:

Francisco de Goya - Paris to Madrid and Madrid to Paris 13h 21m
Joan Miro - Paris to Barcelona and Barcelona to Paris 12h 06m


And I also found this (I hope this is the right one):

MADRID-PARIS
MADRID - Chamartin         19.00
Valladolid                         21.20
Burgos                                 22.21
Vitoria                                 23.39
Poitiers                                   6.21
Blois                                   7.40
PARIS - Bercy station           9.00

BARCELONA-PARIS
BARCELONA - France         21.05
Girona                                 22.17
Figueres                                 22.47
Limoges                                   5.04
Orleans                                   7.40
PARIS - Austerlitz                   9.00

All this services run from Monday to Sunday.

The Joan Miro--Talgo Elipsos Hotel Train--Barcelona to Paris makes more sense to me, than Madrid to Paris. Current departure is 21:05 from Barcelona and arrival in Paris at 09:02. Current ticket prices are Gran Class = $338 per person, First Class = $275 per person and Tourist Class = $192 per person in 4 person rooms.


The Francisco de Goya--Talgo Elipsos Hotel Train--Madrid to Paris. Train leaves Madrid at 18:15 and arrives in Paris at 08:27. Current fares are the same as the Barcelona to Paris fares.

I think train choice depends on just what time that production wanted teams to arrive in Paris. I need to look at driving time to the chateaus in the Loire Valley and the times teams were observed there....that might help in determining which train.

I checked the Madrid train schedule I posted on a different source to the one where I found the departure and arrival times, and you've got the right one, not me.  In this source, the train leaves from Chamartin at 6.12pm. and arrives to Paris Austerlitz at 9.03am..  :gaah:
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: DrRox on August 29, 2012, 11:47:37 PM
Yeah....both Night Hotel Trains arrive at Paris Austerlitz station.

In Madrid, Night Hotel trains depart from the Madrid Atocha Station.

In Barcelona, Night Hotel trains depart from the Barcelona Estacio de Franca.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: Alenaveda on August 29, 2012, 11:50:03 PM
Anyway, it's a good way to bunch all the teams. :)
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: DrRox on August 29, 2012, 11:59:50 PM
Anyway, it's a good way to bunch all the teams. :)

That conclusion is certainly possible and probable. Depending on the Pit Start time in Mallorca and flight times, teams could possible get to Madrid and then arrive in Paris about 30 minutes before teams on the Barcelona Night Hotel train.

The spoiler didn't mention seeing any other teams directly, but did comment that there were only 4 teams left at that time. They could have got that information from the Beekman Boys or they could have seen the other 3 teams and just not mentioned that they saw them.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: apskip on August 30, 2012, 01:04:52 PM
The Joan Miro--Talgo Elipsos Hotel Train--Barcelona to Paris makes more sense to me, than Madrid to Paris. Current departure is 21:05 from Barcelona and arrival in Paris at 09:02. Current ticket prices are Gran Class = $338 per person, First Class = $275 per person and Tourist Class = $192 per person in 4 person rooms.


The Francisco de Goya--Talgo Elipsos Hotel Train--Madrid to Paris. Train leaves Madrid at 18:15 and arrives in Paris at 08:27. Current fares are the same as the Barcelona to Paris fares.

I think train choice depends on just what time that production wanted teams to arrive in Paris. I need to look at driving time to the chateaus in the Loire Valley and the times teams were observed there....that might help in determining which train.

The use of Barcelona as the transfer point from plane to train also makes great sense to me. There were 7 flights from Palma de Mallorca the afternoon of June 14. The Ellipsos train schedule that makes sense to me leaves Barcelona-Eastacio de Franca 2043 and arrives Orleans 0716 (note - there is no need to go to Paris since you would just turn around and come back). The smart thing to do (remember AR1) is to get off in Orleans, which is a much shorter distance from Tours than Paris is. The earliest train from Orleans to Tours is 0740 arriving 0856.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: apskip on August 30, 2012, 01:30:40 PM
The Joan Miro--Talgo Elipsos Hotel Train--Barcelona to Paris makes more sense to me, than Madrid to Paris. Current departure is 21:05 from Barcelona and arrival in Paris at 09:02. Current ticket prices are Gran Class = $338 per person, First Class = $275 per person and Tourist Class = $192 per person in 4 person rooms.


The Francisco de Goya--Talgo Elipsos Hotel Train--Madrid to Paris. Train leaves Madrid at 18:15 and arrives in Paris at 08:27. Current fares are the same as the Barcelona to Paris fares.

I agree that Barcelona as the transfer point from plane to train makes much more sense than alternatives. Just look at a map to see why. There are 7 flights from Palma de Mallorca to Barcelona which arrive in time to connect with the following.

The Ellipsos train departs Barcelona at 2047 and arrives Orleans 0716 (note it makes no sense to go all the way to Paris and then come back). The earliest train from Orleans to Tours departs 0740 and arrives 0856. From Tours the major chateaux are easily accessible.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: apskip on September 02, 2012, 05:52:16 PM
The question of how to get between Coney Island and Lombardi's Pizza has been carefully analyzed.  I cannot imagine Amazing Racers doing anything but take the New York City subway, as it is far faster than any alternate form of transportation. There are four subway lines at Coney Island (D, F, D, Q) and all go to Manhattan and make a stop at Canal St. That is a small bit south of but about equidistant from two different stations titled Prince. The Canal St. station is a short walk to 32 Prince St. where Lombardi's Pizza is located.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: TARFansurvivor on September 04, 2012, 01:00:57 PM
Just putting it out there, but i think it is possible for Tar to have taken the bus or train from Moscow to Riga.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: ianthebalance on September 04, 2012, 01:30:33 PM
Just putting it out there, but i think it is possible for Tar to have taken the bus or train from Moscow to Riga.

I was thinking this too. We really think alike :lol:.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: apskip on September 04, 2012, 03:10:01 PM
It is 525 miles from Moscow to Riga. I think that's at the edge of what is doable by bus or train.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: georgiapeach on September 04, 2012, 05:15:18 PM
We already have 9 countries. :)
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: supah on September 04, 2012, 05:20:03 PM
Is there a boat/ferry that teams could have taken from Palma to Barcelona instead of flying???
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: ianthebalance on September 04, 2012, 06:12:25 PM
We already have 9 countries. :)

Again, WRP leaves out USA or charter/marked car/random pit stop countries sometimes. Its obviously not the latter this season, so they could of just left out the USA when they said "9 countries". I would be really surprised if there wasn't a new country in leg 8.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: DrRox on September 04, 2012, 07:48:03 PM
Just putting it out there, but i think it is possible for Tar to have taken the bus or train from Moscow to Riga.

I was thinking this too. We really think alike :lol:.

Put aside the country count for a minute. Looking at the history of WRP in Russia, the chances of TAR leaving Russia by ground transportation are infinitesimal. Possible but highly improbable. If they did in fact go to Riga, they most certainly flew. In every other instance that TAR has gone to Russia, they have left from exactly the same airport they entered. There is one exception and that is TAR 13. TAR entered Moscow at SJO and left Moscow at DOM. So the extremely high odds are that TAR left by air.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: walkingpneumonia on September 04, 2012, 08:30:55 PM
The question of how to get between Coney Island and Lombardi's Pizza has been carefully analyzed.  I cannot imagine Amazing Racers doing anything but take the New York City subway, as it is far faster than any alternate form of transportation. There are four subway lines at Coney Island (D, F, D, Q) and all go to Manhattan and make a stop at Canal St. That is a small bit south of but about equidistant from two different stations titled Prince. The Canal St. station is a short walk to 32 Prince St. where Lombardi's Pizza is located.

Have we ever had a final episode where teams took public transportation (i.e. subway, bus) in the final city? I can't recall if they did in TAR 10?
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: paldog123456 on September 04, 2012, 08:43:10 PM
The question of how to get between Coney Island and Lombardi's Pizza has been carefully analyzed.  I cannot imagine Amazing Racers doing anything but take the New York City subway, as it is far faster than any alternate form of transportation. There are four subway lines at Coney Island (D, F, D, Q) and all go to Manhattan and make a stop at Canal St. That is a small bit south of but about equidistant from two different stations titled Prince. The Canal St. station is a short walk to 32 Prince St. where Lombardi's Pizza is located.

Have we ever had a final episode where teams took public transportation (i.e. subway, bus) in the final city? I can't recall if they did in TAR 10?

If I remember correctly, TAR 10 was a lot of walking, with a long taxi ride to the Finish Line.

I am pretty sure public transport has been used in the final city other than in TAR 6, when teams took the metro from O'Hare to Downtown Chicago.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: DrRox on September 04, 2012, 09:07:08 PM
TAR 1 had to take the elevated train to the park in Flushing, next to Shea Stadium.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: theschnauzers on September 04, 2012, 11:20:15 PM
There are only a handful of cities with extensive mass transit rail systems, and of the final cities for TAR, only Chicago, New York, Miami, and Atlanta have any connecting the airport to the central core; and of those Miami's didn't open until the other week (literally).

The only one besides New York and Chicago then that they could have used was Atlanta, but the finish line location (Swan House) is about a mile from the nearest MARTA rail station in Buckhead. But, in theory, they could have done it there.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: Neobie on September 05, 2012, 11:58:55 AM
Does anyone have timings for the sightings in Amsterdam, especially at Central Station? I managed to snag @SNKRFRK's tweet at 12.29pm local time, but I don't have an Instagram account so I'm not sure if you can get times off the photos.

But if teams were spotted just past noon, it seems like they wouldn't have just got off a plane from Moscow. The direct flights from Moscow to Amsterdam are 0535-0655 and 1045-1215 (actual arrival 1231), meaning the times don't jive with an arrival at Schiphol at 11am-noon. Connecting flights might work, but it means teams were risking very tight connection times (an hour or so) to make it on a flight to Amsterdam.

This opens up the possibility for other places for Leg 8! But neither St Petersburg nor the Baltic states work for these timings. It'd help a lot if we knew exactly when teams were at Central Station!
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: DrRox on September 05, 2012, 01:03:02 PM
A sighting from somewhere in Europe (Amsterdam?).

Good Luck ‏@goodlucklive
Just seen a crew from the amazing race USA zoom passed us - they asked us for directions we were like "sorry" hahahaha
4:00 AM - 11 Jun 12 via Twitter for iPhone


Good Luck is a band from Capetown, South Africa, but they appear to be touring Europe. One of their tweets suggests they may have been in the Ukraine a couple of days ago and another yesterday says they are Amsterdam bound. Their webpage says they have a couple of appearances in Amsterdam late this week.

I've asked for more details.


This is the first sighting on June 11th. @ 1000. I thought at first it was at Schipol. But in reading back at the twit history of this person, I realized that they had arrived in Amsterdam from the Ukraine, the day/night before. Then I thought maybe they had been on the train going into Amsterdam Central......but in the end i just think they were doing a walking tour of central Amsterdam......I thought maybe there were two waves of racers.........the ones these guys saw at 1000 and the second wave later......It made me think that teams took trains into Amsterdam from some outlying station and the time gap between trains was about 2 hours.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: apskip on September 05, 2012, 07:12:06 PM
Trains leave Schiphol Airport for Amsterdam Centraal station all morning, afternoon and evening with a frequency of every 15 to 20 minutes. Th trip takes about 15 minutes.

Schiphol would also surely be the "outlying station" you refer to, Dr. Rox. It could be other large cities in the Netherlands such as Rotterdam/The Hague, Eindhoven or Groningen. However. few if any of them have any direct flights from Eastern Europe. 
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: Neobie on September 05, 2012, 08:48:20 PM
The GoodLuckLive tweet (https://twitter.com/goodlucklive/status/212137169299587073) shows up on my computer as 11 Jun 7.00pm... Since I'm running on GMT+8, I'm thinking perhaps they saw the racers at 1pm Amsterdam time, and Plaidmoon's computer was running 9 hours behind, on Pacific Summer Time?

I guess now we have to plot out all the sightings in Amsterdam (especially arrivals at Central Station), then see if it leads us to two distinct waves - and that would be very useful to deduce where they came from! (But I dread having to scroll through multiple Twitter accounts to get back to 11 Jun... some people are quite... chatty.)
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: DrRox on September 05, 2012, 09:47:19 PM
Trains leave Schiphol Airport for Amsterdam Centraal station all morning, afternoon and evening with a frequency of every 15 to 20 minutes. Th trip takes about 15 minutes.

Schiphol would also surely be the "outlying station" you refer to, Dr. Rox. It could be other large cities in the Netherlands such as Rotterdam/The Hague, Eindhoven or Groningen. However. few if any of them have any direct flights from Eastern Europe.

apskip....I think you have been smokin some bad caca tonight. Schipol is not an outlying station. For gods sake it, is in an Amsterdam surburb as you well know. No, you have no idea what my outlying station is......simpley because I dont know what it is..........so maybe you should stop trying to intrepret other people's ideas and stick to your own.....as wrong as they are most of the time.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: Plaidmoon on September 06, 2012, 04:27:44 AM
The GoodLuckLive tweet (https://twitter.com/goodlucklive/status/212137169299587073) shows up on my computer as 11 Jun 7.00pm... Since I'm running on GMT+8, I'm thinking perhaps they saw the racers at 1pm Amsterdam time, and Plaidmoon's computer was running 9 hours behind, on Pacific Summer Time?

I guess now we have to plot out all the sightings in Amsterdam (especially arrivals at Central Station), then see if it leads us to two distinct waves - and that would be very useful to deduce where they came from! (But I dread having to scroll through multiple Twitter accounts to get back to 11 Jun... some people are quite... chatty.)

Neobie, I think you have it about right. I am in the Pacific Time Zone (GMT-8) and Amsterdam is at (GMT+1) so I would be 9 hours behind at least from November through the spring. At the time of the sighting, we were on Daylight Savings Time and the clock was moved ahead 1 hour in my time zone. Unless Amsterdam does something similar, I think I would have been 8 hours behind Amsterdam and the time of the tweet would have been at noon Amsterdam time.

It had occurred to me that posting tweets with the tweet time in my time zone might eventually cause some confusion but I didn't do anything about changing my posting practices. Although it will complicate things somewhat, I'll try to remember to use some kind of time reference that will be easier to use. Maybe the local time for the person posting the tweet would be better.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: Neobie on September 06, 2012, 09:19:19 AM
No worries Plaidmoon! Amsterdam does Daylights Saving too.

DrRox was right, teams did seem to arrive in two waves. Here are the tweets the times of which I managed to find (can't find the Facebook sightings lost in the depths of time, nor the one with a picture of the twins):
12.29pm
"So cool! The #AmazingRace is filming at Central Station in Amsterdam as one of their stops." - SNKRFRK
1.00pm
"Just seen a crew from the amazing race USA zoom passed us - they asked us for directions we were like "sorry" hahahaha" - goodlucklive
4.15pm
"Spotted an Amazing Race checkpoint box right in front of the station o_o what if i steal a ticket~" - zerachel
4.25pm
"UWOO 2 guys using similar shirts+backpacks just walked by the cafe..AND I thnk one carried an AA (sic, "AR") ticket!!!" - zerachel
4.26pm
"At Restaurant De Roode Leeuw Brasserie, Amsterdam~ chilling while eating bitterballen :3" - zerachel
5.15pm
"So the Amazing Race has just been spotted in Amsterdam! Good luck team!" - toryalmond, with Josh/Brent and Abbie/Ryan
5.56pm
"An Amazing Race team literally ran into us in Amsterdam today #mylifeiscomplete" - mpetroff



We'll tackle this in two parts. First let's consider the possibility that they just touched down in Schiphol and took the train downtown. Working backwards on the trains, that means they left the airport at 12.09pm and 3.59pm latest. Taking a minimum of ten minutes to disembark and get to the trains at Schiphol, that means we are looking for flights landing no later than 11.59am and 3.49pm respectively.

This doesn't jive with any of these cities close enough to Moscow to warrant just a one-day leg:
Moscow (arriving 6.58am, 12.31pm)
St Petersburg (arriving 8.53am, 7.35pm)
Tallinn (arriving 8.56am, 7.48pm)
Riga (arriving 1.00pm, 7.05pm)

At this juncture, I'd take a leap and say that Leg 8 is neither in Russia nor in the Netherlands. (Fingers crossed!) For the former, flights just don't arrive at the right times. For the latter, trains from anywhere in the Netherlands to Amsterdam should be frequent, at the slowest two an hour in the daytime. Unless there were other semi-bunching mechanisms in place or unless there were unseen racers arriving at other times, we shouldn't be seeing two distinct waves of racers, arriving almost four hours apart.

Ignoring connecting flights, here are the cities with pairs of flights arriving at the appropriate times:
Zurich, Bucharest, Gothenburg, Bremen, Nuremburg, Paris, Munich, Milan, Stavanger, Rome, Frankfurt, Stockholm
But if we take away the cities with alternative flights in between the pairs, we're left with:
Bucharest, Bremen, Nuremburg, Stockholm
I don't think Bremen and Nuremburg are the kind of city (or at least airport!) TPTB likes to use, and Bremen's close enough to the Netherlands that a train might have been better for production. So going by this, good suspects look like Bucharest and Stockholm.

But wait! Notice the list of cities close to Moscow? It doesn't include Vilnius in Lithuania; Vilnius doesn't have direct flights to Amsterdam on 11 Jun. But when you consider the quickest ways to get from one to the other, you get:
Vilnius via Frankfurt to Amsterdam, arriving 9.49am (scheduled 0600-0715, 0855-1005)
Flight via Prague scheduled 0525-0605, 0910-1045 (Frankfurt is preferable)
Flight via Moscow SVO scheduled 0540-0805, 1105-1215 (Frankfurt is preferable)
Vilnius via Copenhagen to Amsterdam, arriving 11.27am (scheduled 0640-0710, 1010-1135)
Vilnius via Kiev to Amsterdam, arriving 11.44am (scheduled 0705-0835, 0940-1135)
Vilnius via Helsinki to Amsterdam, arriving 3.21pm (scheduled 1145-1255, 1400-1530)
Vilnius via Bremen to Amsterdam, scheduled 1010-1100, 1500-1600 (Helsinki is preferable)
Which makes Vilnius a good candidate as well.

What about the train option? I'm not sure how to approach this problem. You guys have a clue?
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: Alenaveda on September 06, 2012, 11:39:14 AM
No worries Plaidmoon! Amsterdam does Daylights Saving too.

DrRox was right, teams did seem to arrive in two waves. Here are the tweets the times of which I managed to find (can't find the Facebook sightings lost in the depths of time, nor the one with a picture of the twins):
12.29pm
"So cool! The #AmazingRace is filming at Central Station in Amsterdam as one of their stops." - SNKRFRK
1.00pm
"Just seen a crew from the amazing race USA zoom passed us - they asked us for directions we were like "sorry" hahahaha" - goodlucklive
4.15pm
"Spotted an Amazing Race checkpoint box right in front of the station o_o what if i steal a ticket~" - zerachel
4.25pm
"UWOO 2 guys using similar shirts+backpacks just walked by the cafe..AND I thnk one carried an AA (sic, "AR") ticket!!!" - zerachel
4.26pm
"At Restaurant De Roode Leeuw Brasserie, Amsterdam~ chilling while eating bitterballen :3" - zerachel
5.15pm
"So the Amazing Race has just been spotted in Amsterdam! Good luck team!" - toryalmond, with Josh/Brent and Abbie/Ryan
5.56pm
"An Amazing Race team literally ran into us in Amsterdam today #mylifeiscomplete" - mpetroff



We'll tackle this in two parts. First let's consider the possibility that they just touched down in Schiphol and took the train downtown. Working backwards on the trains, that means they left the airport at 12.09pm and 3.59pm latest. Taking a minimum of ten minutes to disembark and get to the trains at Schiphol, that means we are looking for flights landing no later than 11.59am and 3.49pm respectively.

This doesn't jive with any of these cities close enough to Moscow to warrant just a one-day leg:
Moscow (arriving 6.58am, 12.31pm)
St Petersburg (arriving 8.53am, 7.35pm)
Tallinn (arriving 8.56am, 7.48pm)
Riga (arriving 1.00pm, 7.05pm)

At this juncture, I'd take a leap and say that Leg 8 is neither in Russia nor in the Netherlands. (Fingers crossed!) For the former, flights just don't arrive at the right times. For the latter, trains from anywhere in the Netherlands to Amsterdam should be frequent, at the slowest two an hour in the daytime. Unless there were other semi-bunching mechanisms in place or unless there were unseen racers arriving at other times, we shouldn't be seeing two distinct waves of racers, arriving almost four hours apart.

Ignoring connecting flights, here are the cities with pairs of flights arriving at the appropriate times:
Zurich, Bucharest, Gothenburg, Bremen, Nuremburg, Paris, Munich, Milan, Stavanger, Rome, Frankfurt, Stockholm
But if we take away the cities with alternative flights in between the pairs, we're left with:
Bucharest, Bremen, Nuremburg, Stockholm
I don't think Bremen and Nuremburg are the kind of city (or at least airport!) TPTB likes to use, and Bremen's close enough to the Netherlands that a train might have been better for production. So going by this, good suspects look like Bucharest and Stockholm.

But wait! Notice the list of cities close to Moscow? It doesn't include Vilnius in Lithuania; Vilnius doesn't have direct flights to Amsterdam on 11 Jun. But when you consider the quickest ways to get from one to the other, you get:
Vilnius via Frankfurt to Amsterdam, arriving 9.49am (scheduled 0600-0715, 0855-1005)
Flight via Prague scheduled 0525-0605, 0910-1045 (Frankfurt is preferable)
Flight via Moscow SVO scheduled 0540-0805, 1105-1215 (Frankfurt is preferable)
Vilnius via Copenhagen to Amsterdam, arriving 11.27am (scheduled 0640-0710, 1010-1135)
Vilnius via Kiev to Amsterdam, arriving 11.44am (scheduled 0705-0835, 0940-1135)
Vilnius via Helsinki to Amsterdam, arriving 3.21pm (scheduled 1145-1255, 1400-1530)
Vilnius via Bremen to Amsterdam, scheduled 1010-1100, 1500-1600 (Helsinki is preferable)
Which makes Vilnius a good candidate as well.

What about the train option? I'm not sure how to approach this problem. You guys have a clue?

By now, I can only find services between Vilnius and Moscow, but the info is all in lithuanian.  So reading only the time schedules this what we have (assuming a short PS on June 9):

TRAIN         DEP         ARR         DISTANCE (KM)             TRIP TIME
G6/T        16:55        08:58             943                        14:58
G30/Ч        17:45        09:27             943                        14:42
G148/Ч        22:36        15:21             943                        15:45


The thing is that there are a dialy service between Moscow and Amsterdam.

Dep.         Arr.                   Distance (Km)         Trip Time
23.44       09.59                      2.596                  36:15

IDK if this fits somehow, but here's the info I found.

(I took June 9 based on your Post on the Timeline thread just as a guide)


Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: theschnauzers on September 06, 2012, 02:01:02 PM
The only way teams could have disembarked on flights and made it to the center of Amsterdam that quickly is if they clear customs into the EU elsewhere.

There's also the possibility of a connecting flight out of Moscow and landing in Amsterdam, and that would still leave open the possibility of leg 8 being in either Russia or the Netherlands.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: Neobie on September 06, 2012, 08:03:49 PM
Sorry, never mind!
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: maf on September 07, 2012, 01:12:23 AM
The only way teams could have disembarked on flights and made it to the center of Amsterdam that quickly is if they clear customs into the EU elsewhere.

You mean like Copenhagen or Helsinki?
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: DrRox on September 07, 2012, 01:47:29 AM
The only way teams could have disembarked on flights and made it to the center of Amsterdam that quickly is if they clear customs into the EU elsewhere.

You mean like Copenhagen or Helsinki?

Well sort of like the EU. It is really the Schengen Agreement Area. It includes all of the EU and also some other countries that are not members of the EU, ie Norway, iceland, Switzerland and Liechtenstein. The UK and Ireland are members of the EU, but not members of the Schengen Area. I hope that makes sense.

Lithuania is a member of both the EU and Schengen Agreement, so there are no passport controls between Lithuania and Holland.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: Neobie on September 07, 2012, 06:06:46 AM
Exploring TheSchnauzers' postulation that teams could have taken a connecting flight from Moscow to Amsterdam... There are several options that fit our sightings:

SVO-AMS, arriving 0658 (scheduled 0535-0655)
DME-TXL-AMS, arriving 1037 (scheduled 0645-0725 0915-1035)
SVO-FCO-AMS, arriving 1143 (scheduled 0550-0745 0855-1130)
DME-LHR-AMS, arriving 1147 (scheduled 0655-0810 0920-1135)
SVO-AMS, arriving 1231 (scheduled 1045-1215)
VKO-IST-AMS, arriving 1334 (scheduled 0610-0755 1105-1340)
DME-ZRH-AMS, arriving 1326 (scheduled 0910-1050 1155-1330)
DME-GOT-AMS, arriving 1335 (scheduled 0920-1015 1210-1340)
SVO-ARN-AMS, arriving 1513 (scheduled 1050-1055 1310-1515)
SVO-STR-AMS, arriving 1550 (scheduled 1210-1330 1425-1550, very short connection time)
SVO-HAJ-AMS, arriving 1551 (scheduled 1145-1235 1440-1540)
DME-TXL-AMS, arriving 1551 (scheduled 1040-1125 1435-1555)
VKO-FRA-AMS, arriving 1558 (scheduled 0925-1035 1255-1405)

But the two direct flights are just sitting there, amidst all these options, neglected, unused!

(http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg253/scaled.php?server=253&filename=itdoesntfit.jpg&res=landing)
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: Neobie on September 07, 2012, 10:51:28 AM
Hmm... What if Central Station wasn't the first place they went to in the Netherlands, and a direct flight was actually used?

The first wave of sightings started at 12.29pm, the second started at 4.15pm. This makes a gap of 3 hours and 46 minutes.

Now let's say the first direct flight was used, leaving from Moscow SVO. Since teams will have to clear customs in Amsterdam, let's delay them a little bit, say an hour, for an adjusted arrival time of 7.58am.
The next flight arriving from Moscow SVO (and the one amongst the three blue flights I like best, because it's all on one airline, Alitaia) reaches Schiphol at 11.43am. No customs at Amsterdam, because the flight came via Rome, which is inside Schengen.

KL 902 from Moscow SVO to Amsterdam: 0533-0658 (sch. 0535-0655)
Add one hour for customs: 0658-0758
AZ 595 from Moscow SVO to Rome: 0550-0745 (sch. 0550-0745)
AZ 108 from Rome to Amsterdam: 0910-1143 (sch. 0855-1130)

The time difference between 7.58am and 11.43am is... 3 hours and 45 minutes.

Alright, there'd be a lot of give and take, so it's not that precise. How long would customs actually take? How long did the tasks between the airport and Centraal Station take? How did the train schedules work out? How long did the people using Twitter wait before posting? We'd also still need to find a way for teams to while away 4h30 before arriving at Amsterdam Centraal!
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: Alenaveda on September 07, 2012, 11:59:27 AM
Neobie, maybe we should look for the time difference that takes to travel between Amsterdam and the places where the previous RB were located in any way to reach them.  What if the RB is the first task of the leg?

(Don't forget that RBs were the first task in legs 1-4-6-9-10-11 of the last season)
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: Neobie on September 07, 2012, 01:37:54 PM
Doesn't work if the locations are the same as last time. The eel Roadblock in Monnickendam and the pole vaulting in Ransdorp are just on the outskirts of Amsterdam, giving teams more than three hours at the task itself before they are due to arrive in Amsterdam Centraal. Groningen, on the other hand, is too far, and the quickest way there and back by train will see them arrive an hour and a half after the sightings.

The clue box outside the train station, though, seems like the first clue in a country to me. If they'd been doing tasks in the Netherlands you'd guess they would be getting direct instructions to the next location.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: Alenaveda on September 07, 2012, 02:58:32 PM
Doesn't work if the locations are the same as last time. The eel Roadblock in Monnickendam and the pole vaulting in Ransdorp are just on the outskirts of Amsterdam, giving teams more than three hours at the task itself before they are due to arrive in Amsterdam Centraal. Groningen, on the other hand, is too far, and the quickest way there and back by train will see them arrive an hour and a half after the sightings.

The clue box outside the train station, though, seems like the first clue in a country to me. If they'd been doing tasks in the Netherlands you'd guess they would be getting direct instructions to the next location.

At least, this is one option we can dismiss  :tup:.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: DrRox on September 07, 2012, 03:57:17 PM
Assuming that Leg 8 is a 2nd leg in/around Moscow--one of Neobie's short legs---on June 9th,2012. This would mean teams could be released from Pit Stops sometime on June 10, to head to Amsterdamn. I would think that teams were released after the 10-11 am time frame to preclude them catching the morning flights to Amserdamn. That leaves two evening flights to Amsterdamn:

SVO to AMS evening June 10,2012
KL904       1800-1919
SU2552     2055-2233

If Groningen is the destination for the clock tower RB, the last train is @ 2320. If teams, that were on the last flight, were held up in customs........they might have to wait till 0520 for the first train to Groningen. Depending on when teams are actually released from the last Moscow pit stop, the airplane flights could give us the 3 hour time differential in the arrival of teams at Amsterdam Central Train Station on June 11.

I am suggesting something like the Hiroshima/Osaka leg from TAR20. Since WRP doesnt like to film at night.....then some kind of mid leg HoO in eastern Holland. Probably for the church clock tower to open.....but if teams also got stuck at Schipol Train station.....then they could have some kind of double HoO to preserve the 3 hour time differential.......I know this doesnt make a lot of sense, but there are just a lot of variables involved. There are trains arriving at Amsterdamn Central Station that closely approximate the sightings of the TAR teams back in Amsterdamn on June 11.

The train rides from Amsterdam to Groningen and back are about 2.5 hours. So if the church clock tower opened at 9 am...one hour to complete the task, then 2.5 hours back to Amsterdam......that would put an early team into AMS at ~ 1 pm.

Anyway......I am just sort of thinking out loud......so feel free to shoot down this idea.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: Alenaveda on September 07, 2012, 04:18:52 PM
Assuming that Leg 8 is a 2nd leg in/around Moscow--one of Neobie's short legs---on June 9th,2012. This would mean teams could be released from Pit Stops sometime on June 10, to head to Amsterdamn. I would think that teams were released after the 10-11 am time frame to preclude them catching the morning flights to Amserdamn. That leaves two evening flights to Amsterdamn:

SVO to AMS evening June 10,2012
KL904       1800-1919
SU2552     2055-2233

If Groningen is the destination for the clock tower RB, the last train is @ 2320. If teams, that were on the last flight, were held up in customs........they might have to wait till 0520 for the first train to Groningen. Depending on when teams are actually released from the last Moscow pit stop, the airplane flights could give us the 3 hour time differential in the arrival of teams at Amsterdam Central Train Station on June 11.

I am suggesting something like the Hiroshima/Osaka leg from TAR20. Since WRP doesnt like to film at night.....then some kind of mid leg HoO in eastern Holland. Probably for the church clock tower to open.....but if teams also got stuck at Schipol Train station.....then they could have some kind of double HoO to preserve the 3 hour time differential.......I know this doesnt make a lot of sense, but there are just a lot of variables involved. There are trains arriving at Amsterdamn Central Station that closely approximate the sightings of the TAR teams back in Amsterdamn on June 11.

The train rides from Amsterdam to Groningen and back are about 2.5 hours. So if the church clock tower opened at 9 am...one hour to complete the task, then 2.5 hours back to Amsterdam......that would put an early team into AMS at ~ 1 pm.

Anyway......I am just sort of thinking out loud......so feel free to shoot down this idea.

According to this page below, the HoO of the Martinitoren from April to October is from 11.00am to 17.00pm.. But the tower also opens for guided tours from 09.00-11.00am. and 17.00-20.00pm..  I rembember that in TAR15 we didn't see people in the tower at the moment of the RB, so we can assume that it was performed in the hours of the guided tours. The most probable scenario is - if they repeat that RB - that it had happened on the same time period.

http://www.martinistad.nl/groningen/martinitoren/

Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: DrRox on September 07, 2012, 06:49:12 PM
If in fact that the clock tower is the switchback roadblock in TAR 21........I have absolutely no doubt that it would be closed to the public on that day. Rented out by WRP for exclusive use. And that WRP would set their own HoO.....depending on their own objectives.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: Air on September 07, 2012, 11:20:01 PM
I agree with DrRox 100% on this. It wouldn't make sense NOT to rent it out.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: DrRox on September 08, 2012, 01:08:13 AM
Alenaveda's comment was very good. She did some research to see if my hypothesis would work. My hypothesis is highly speculative. I actually started thinking about it from some comments made by Neobie up above. He showed how the morning flights were not compatible with the time frame of teams spotted in Ams Central.....

Anyway....anyone/everyone come up with some ideas and try to make your ideas fit the few facts we do know......Maybe we can colectively find the solution!!!!
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: theschnauzers on September 08, 2012, 02:04:41 AM
There are always three factors that I find need to be repeated as necessary in trying to figure out a timeline on incomplete confirmed information.

First, as I noted before, is the use of connecting and not direct flights, for various reasons; second, that you have to account for production's need to get Phil ahead of the teams to the next country or region; and third, pit stops can be any length of time the production needs to move the Race along and still get Phil and the Racers where their route needs them to be. Hence, we need to avoid assuming that pit stops are intended to be 12 hours; the reality is that they are rarely 12 hours anymore.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: Neobie on September 08, 2012, 06:43:40 AM
Knowing that there is no country in between Russia and the Netherlands, and assuming the Netherlands isn't Leg 8 (where the gap between the two waves is unlikely to arise)...

1. Connecting Flights
This flight combination makes sense, on the morning of the 11 Jun, if we accept that Amsterdam Centraal was not the first destination in the country and teams spent four and a half hours between the airport and the train station:
KL 902 from Moscow SVO to Amsterdam: 0533-0658 (sch. 0535-0655)
AZ 595 from Moscow SVO to Rome: 0550-0745 (sch. 0550-0745)
AZ 108 from Rome to Amsterdam: 0910-1143 (sch. 0855-1130)
These are the first two routes out of Moscow SVO to Amsterdam, so a Pit Start after 8pm on 10 Jun would cluster the teams on these two combinations. There is an alternative via Berlin on airberlin/KLM arriving 10.37am, but that leaves from Moscow DME.

2. Phil and Production
If Leg 8 took place in Russia, it would have taken place on the 9th, giving Phil plenty of time for a night flight out or even the same KL 902 a day ahead of the teams, on 10 Jun.

3. Pit Stops
Absolutely agree with TheSchnauzers. In recent seasons (stretching back to Season 13), they're almost always longer than 12 hours, with the exception of the last leg, which is often shorter than 12 hours. Here's the list from TAR 20:
13h, 15h, 20h, 19h, 19h, 36h, 15h, 34h, 21h, 29h, 3h.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: Alenaveda on September 08, 2012, 08:48:34 AM
I'm gonna ask all of you about this, because of your experiencie in this stuff:  is there a chance that teams fly to Eelde Airport on Groningen from Moscow? You know, Martinitoren (if it's the chosen RB for the switchback) is only 20-25 minutes distance from the airport, and - as DrRox stated previously - the train ride to Amsterdam is about 2.5 hours, that could easily give us the 3.46 hours window that Neobie suggests.

(Once again, I'm only dismissing options).

(BTW, DrRox, if you were referring to me in your last post, the "she" is a "he"  :lol:)
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: addie on September 08, 2012, 08:54:36 AM
I'm gonna ask all of you about this, because of your experiencie in this stuff:  is there a chance that teams fly to Eelde Airport on Groningen from Moscow? You know, Martinitoren (if it's the chosen RB for the switchback) is only 20-25 minutes distance from the airport, and - as DrRox stated previously - the train ride to Amsterdam is about 2.5 hours, that could easily give us the 3.46 hours window that Neobie suggests.

(Once again, I'm only dismissing options).

(BTW, DrRox, if you were referring to me in your last post, the "she" is a "he"  :lol:)
No. I live close by this Airport (quarter minute drive) and it is only used for summer destinations. Almost everyone who is flying elsewhere in the Netherlands, goes to Schiphol (I go to Schiphol too if I have to fly). I would find it highly unlikely to fly in via Eelde.

Also, I can't set my mind to the fact that they would visit Groningen again. It isn't that pretty, I go there only to shop. There are definitly way more cooler cities in the Netherlands.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: Alenaveda on September 08, 2012, 09:01:13 AM
I'm gonna ask all of you about this, because of your experiencie in this stuff:  is there a chance that teams fly to Eelde Airport on Groningen from Moscow? You know, Martinitoren (if it's the chosen RB for the switchback) is only 20-25 minutes distance from the airport, and - as DrRox stated previously - the train ride to Amsterdam is about 2.5 hours, that could easily give us the 3.46 hours window that Neobie suggests.

(Once again, I'm only dismissing options).

(BTW, DrRox, if you were referring to me in your last post, the "she" is a "he"  :lol:)
No. I live close by this Airport (quarter minute drive) and it is only used for summer destinations. Almost everyone who is flying elsewhere in the Netherlands, goes to Schiphol (I go to Schiphol too if I have to fly). I would find it highly unlikely to fly in via Eelde.

Also, I can't set my mind to the fact that they would visit Groningen again. It isn't that pretty, I go there only to shop. There are definitly way more cooler cities in the Netherlands.

Because Groningen, Monnickendam and Ransdorp were the locations of the RBs in the previous visits to the Netherlands (and it was announced that there was a switchback RB on this season's leg).
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: addie on September 08, 2012, 09:05:37 AM
Yeah, but Monickendam and Ransdorp are municipalities of Amsterdam and Groningen isn't.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: DrRox on September 08, 2012, 09:25:52 AM
addie.......

We dont know really where they went. We just try to figure out, from the clues we have, what possibly happened. Since you live there, you are in a unique positon to do some legwork and maybe find out if that clock tower was closed on the possible dates. They might even tell you if they filmed and American TV show there this past June. Maybe they wont tell you.....but then again maybe someone else in that village will remember. If it was used, it would have been on June 10 and June 11 that the crews were there.

If you find out that they were not there.....then we can concentrate on the areas near Amsterdam.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: apskip on September 08, 2012, 11:56:41 AM
All this talk of connecting flights Moscow to Amsterdam is nonsense. There are two morning nonstops (including on June 11):

KL902 0535 0655 SVO AMS
SU2550 1045 1225 SVO AMS

There are no nonstops from Domodedovo to Amsterdam

It takes about a half hour to get out of Schiphol Airport and the train to Amsterdam-Central takes 15 to 30 minutes depending on exactly when teams arrive there. That means that there was a substantial gap until the times of the sightings. What was done to fill that gap? It definitely was not a trip to Groningen to count the bells in the Martintouren.


Added 11/29/12 - To be completely fair, my guess that only the nonstops made sense was way off base. Only 1 of 5 teams actually got one of those nonstops and 4 took connecting flights (although 2 of those had no access to the morning nonstops due to later start times).
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: addie on September 08, 2012, 01:29:26 PM
addie.......

We dont know really where they went. We just try to figure out, from the clues we have, what possibly happened. Since you live there, you are in a unique positon to do some legwork and maybe find out if that clock tower was closed on the possible dates. They might even tell you if they filmed and American TV show there this past June. Maybe they wont tell you.....but then again maybe someone else in that village will remember. If it was used, it would have been on June 10 and June 11 that the crews were there.

If you find out that they were not there.....then we can concentrate on the areas near Amsterdam.
I have send a Dutch mail to the Martinitoren.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: DrRox on September 08, 2012, 03:07:32 PM
Thanks addie for taking the time to help out!!!
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: Alenaveda on October 02, 2012, 12:34:46 PM
For those who believe that you have to connect in Barcelona or Madrid to get to Mallorca from Amsterdam, that is incorrect. Here is today's morning flight:

Transavia 5629 AMS PMI 0632 0856

There is also an evening flight which might have been used last night:

Vueling 2902 AMS PMI 1905 2134

I like that Alenaveda! Now...how are they going to get there? Scheduled ferry? Charter boats? Should be scenic!

Just as a data, between both places there's a four hours trip, including ferry.

I was talking about Bellver and Formentero; but the route is through Ibiza Island.
You can travel either by ferry or plane.  Iberia has flights all the day between PMI-IBZ, and it takes only 35 minutes.  Let me do a little research, and I'll post it in the transportation thread.


Ok, Peach, this is what I found:

Ferry:  Baleária has a morning service between Palma and Ibiza, who departs at 8.00am and arrives at 10.00am..  It only fits if - according to apskip research - teams travels on the second flight and face an HoO (that it would also consistant with the tweet of the crew member saying he had to wake up early morning to be part of a task on TAR, and later erase from his personal account, remember?).

Flights:  Iberia has flight the whole day:

Iberia   IB8102   PMI-IBZ  07.30   08.05

Iberia   IB8104   PMI-IBZ  08.40   09.15

Iberia   IB8112   PMI-IBZ  09.30   10.05

Iberia   IB8106   PMI-IBZ  10.20   10.55

Iberia   IB8110   PMI-IBZ  11.50   12.25

Iberia   IB8116  PMI-IBZ   12.50   13.25

Iberia   IB8122  PMI-IBZ   13.20   13.55

The other flights depart in the late evening.  But there's also a flight from Air Berlin:

AirBerlin   AB7502   PMI-IBZ   1505   15.40


Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: apskip on October 02, 2012, 01:32:37 PM
If Alanevada's hypothesis is correct, there are 10 daily/evening flights from Ibiza to Barcelona. These take about 45 minutes. For a flight that connects well in Barcelona with the Night Talgo Train to France, the last two flights possible are:

IB5419 IBZ BCN 1650 1732
FR8037 IBZ BCN 1725 1818
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: georgiapeach on October 02, 2012, 02:04:58 PM
There are multiple 20 min ferries Ibiza to Formentera too (jic)
http://www.directferries.co.uk/formentera_ferry.htm

And Ibiza>>Palma ferries too.

AND Ibiza to Barcelona ferries.
http://www.directferries.co.uk/ibiza_ferry.htm
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: Alenaveda on October 02, 2012, 02:12:03 PM
One other thing about this hypothesis.  Baleária has ferries for the route Ibiza-Formentera and back. The first ferry from Ibiza departs at 7.00am, and then at 8.01/10.31/12.00/13.01/16.01/17.30/21.31; and from Formentera, at 07.01/08.30/09.16/11.31/13.00/15.01/18.30/19.31.  The travel takes only 30 minutes.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: Alenaveda on October 02, 2012, 02:27:28 PM
There are multiple 20 min ferries Ibiza to Formentera too (jic)
http://www.directferries.co.uk/formentera_ferry.htm

And Ibiza>>Palma ferries too.

AND Ibiza to Barcelona ferries.
http://www.directferries.co.uk/ibiza_ferry.htm

All the ferries from Ibiza to Barcelona departs at 11.00am., both Baleária and Transmediterránea, and arrives at Barcelona at 9.00pm (Baleária) and 8.00pm. (Transmediterránea).

And from Ibiza to Palma, departs at 8.00pm. and arrives at 10.00pm., only by Baleária.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: Alenaveda on October 02, 2012, 02:41:43 PM
If Alanevada's hypothesis is correct, there are 10 daily/evening flights from Ibiza to Barcelona. These take about 45 minutes. For a flight that connects well in Barcelona with the Night Talgo Train to France, the last two flights possible are:

IB5419 IBZ BCN 1650 1732
FR8037 IBZ BCN 1725 1818

One other thing about this hypothesis.  Baleária has ferries for the route Ibiza-Formentera and back. The first ferry from Ibiza departs at 7.00am, and then at 8.01/10.31/12.00/13.01/16.01/17.30/21.31; and from Formentera, at 07.01/08.30/09.16/11.31/13.00/15.01/18.30/19.31.  The travel takes only 30 minutes.

There are multiple 20 min ferries Ibiza to Formentera too (jic)
http://www.directferries.co.uk/formentera_ferry.htm

And Ibiza>>Palma ferries too.

AND Ibiza to Barcelona ferries.
http://www.directferries.co.uk/ibiza_ferry.htm

All the ferries from Ibiza to Barcelona departs at 11.00am., both Baleária and Transmediterránea, and arrives at Barcelona at 9.00pm (Baleária) and 8.00pm. (Transmediterránea).

And from Ibiza to Palma, departs at 8.00pm. and arrives at 10.00pm., only by Baleária.

It's only a 20 minutes ride by car from the port to the Airport in Ibiza.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: georgiapeach on October 02, 2012, 02:45:10 PM
Heee! Ferries on the brain! Ever since we missed one as an option Dubrovnik to ?Italy? I keep thinking of them. And since we have that as yet unidentified ferry in the caps....
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: Alenaveda on October 02, 2012, 02:51:42 PM
Heee! Ferries on the brain! Ever since we missed one as an option Dubrovnik to ?Italy? I keep thinking of them. And since we have that as yet unidentified ferry in the caps....

Well, Peach, this are how Baleária and Transmediterránea ferries looks like:
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: georgiapeach on October 02, 2012, 03:01:05 PM
I know. I have been looking!
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: apskip on October 19, 2012, 06:34:25 PM
On June 6, Dr. Rox stated:

That flight is BG  85   2:40pm--4:35 pm. on June 2, 2012.
Now arrival into Singapore was reportedly at 935am. So why would teams wait around in Singapore Changi to get the late evening flight to Dhaka? Why wouldn't they take BG85 (which did leave 40 minutes and actual arrival time was not known)? The only reason I can think of is that there were not sufficient seats on the flight SUB SIN. We'll see soon enough. 
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: DrRox on October 20, 2012, 12:30:46 AM
apskip.......here is my complete posting on June 6. Note the first part was correcting your misassumption of flights on June 3......

quote author=DrRox link=topic=27208.msg762277#msg762277 date=1338969331]
I want to keep up with the missing transportation segments of AR21m as best I can. Here is what the choices were Singapore to Dhaka with the assumption of 3 June as the date:


You just transposed the date wrong, apskip. I doubt (and I think you will agree) that it is highly improbable that teams would fly from Surabaya to Singapore on June 2 and then fly from Singapore to Dhaka on June 3.....here is your orginal post about a connection SIN>DAC on the afternoon of June 2.

OK, if it was arrival Singapore at 925am 2 June, then it makes sense to look at where teams might have gone if they flew onward from SIN (which I expect they did do). Unfortunately, it gets complicated beyond the powers of reasonable analysis.

2pm - 3pm
DAC

That flight is BG  85   2:40pm--4:35 pm. on June 2, 2012.....it does not fly on June 3, 2012, btw.

So it is possible that teams arrived in Dhaka @ approx 5:00 pm on June 2, to finish Leg 4 in late afternoon/early evening.....or better would be to have an HoO and finish middle of the day on June3. Then pit stop till morning of June 4......and most of the day for Leg 5........then pit stop release about noon on June 5. That would give teams two flight options to get to Dubai...
4H 591  5:15pm---8:35pm
EK 585  9:30pm---12:58 am (June 6)

We know from the pilot's tweet that some teams were on the EK 585 flight.....but we just don't know how many.
[/quote]

From all the promo evidence, it appears that ALL the teams were competing at the same approx time of day......so whether teams were distributed on both/either BG85 or SQ446 or restricted to just SQ446, there does appear to be a HoO upon arrival in Dhaka and teams compete on morning of June3 to finish Leg 4.

I have always wondered if Biman Bangladesh Airlines is one of the airlines that WRP has blacklisted. It has come up several times in flight searches as a possible carrier, but never used.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: Air on October 22, 2012, 04:04:29 AM
I have always wondered if Biman Bangladesh Airlines is one of the airlines that WRP has blacklisted. It has come up several times in flight searches as a possible carrier, but never used.

I think it is. It is notorious for being unsafe (but has only had one or two crashes) and the UN has said that they 'advise their staff not to use Biman and the people that ignore this warning will be flying at their own risk'.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: DrRox on October 22, 2012, 07:56:17 AM
Lots of interesting things in Leg 5 episode.
1) The pit stop release appears, to me, to be in Surabaya.
2) Another late night travel agency. Seems the racers, at least the first two teams, went to the same one.
3) There is no 10 o'clock Singapore Airlines flight from Surabaya to Singepore. There is a Silkair, MI221, that is also listed as a codeshare for Singapore Airlines. It did arrive in Singapore with time to make the early Birman Banglasesh flight connection to Dhaka.
4) It looked to me that all of the TAR team, racers and crews, were allowed to pre-board. The airliner is a wide body jet. You can tell by the two aisles.
5) Both the Birman Banglasesh and Singapore Air flights from Singapore to Dhaka were wide body jets.
6) Only the very early China Airlines (CI752) flight at 6 am from Surabaya to Singapore was a wide body aircraft. The 10 am Silkair MI221 fight (Singapore codeshare) was a small body, single aisle, aircraft.
7) The interior of the jet the teams were seen entering seemed pretty austere to me. It did not look like what I would think a Singapore Airlines aircraft would look like. It seemed pretty bare bones, as a matter of fact, which I would think would suggest another airline.

There was a sign highlighted for just a second, just before Abbie/Ryan exited thier cab at the travel agency. Maybe some of the screen grabbers will find that sign and we might be able to locate the travel agency.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: Chateau d If on October 22, 2012, 11:03:09 PM
The head cloth on the seats indicates Singapore Airlines (http://www.singaporeair.com/SAA-flow.form?execution=e2s1)

This was capped as Teams boarded their flight from SUB.  But that does not mean this is the plan they flew out of SUB on!

We already know from race-time spoilers that they were on CI 752 SUB to SIN on June 2nd.  That aircraft was an Airbus 330-300 under China Air.  The key point of the screen cap is that the flight from SIN to DAC now has to be Singapore Airlines SQ 446 leaving at 8:37 pm and arriving at 10:35 pm.  And that flight was also an Airbus 330-300.  The wide body seating configuration of the 330-300 matches what we saw in the show.

(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/49/129381720_830b6b47fd_m.jpg)

My guess would be that they all had to wait inside the airport until the morning of June 3rd.  It has to be the morning because Abbie's wrist watch says 10:50 as they are hunting for the fish at the Kawran Bazaar Shootkir Market.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: DrRox on October 23, 2012, 07:58:29 AM
Good eye on the head cloth, Chateau. Your conclusions are pretty much what I had decided. I wonder why the production ruse at the travel agency with the talk of the 10:00 am flight? I dont really get that. I have my own theories about the midnight travel agencies we see all the time in TAR.

Keeping teams at the Dhaka airport is certainly a possibllity....but why not just take them to a hotel for the night and then back to airport for fake exit the next morning. It was pretty obviously going to be a very long day and TAR has practice teams do the course before real teams arrive. It was not far from sundown when Gary/Will checked in with Phil. The shot over Phil's shoulder has a great shot of the sun, very low on the horizon. This was certainly not one of the 3-4 hour legs.

No hotel in the terminal,  but the Dhaka Regency is 2-3 minutes away and the Radisson is 4-5 minutes from terminal.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: maf on October 23, 2012, 03:37:55 PM
Good eye on the head cloth, Chateau. Your conclusions are pretty much what I had decided. I wonder why the production ruse at the travel agency with the talk of the 10:00 am flight? I dont really get that. I have my own theories about the midnight travel agencies we see all the time in TAR.

I wouldn't be surprised if the travel agency sold them the 10.00 flight because it made the whole flight cheaper and didn't affect their ultimate arrival time. But when teams arrived at the airport and saw an earlier flight they all switched to that. This is howerver pure speculation.

    /MaF
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: apskip on October 23, 2012, 05:37:18 PM
Lots of interesting things in Leg 5 episode.
1) The pit stop release appears, to me, to be in Surabaya.
2) Another late night travel agency. Seems the racers, at least the first two teams, went to the same one.
3) There is no 10 o'clock Singapore Airlines flight from Surabaya to Singepore. There is a Silkair, MI221, that is also listed as a codeshare for Singapore Airlines. It did arrive in Singapore with time to make the early Birman Banglasesh flight connection to Dhaka.
4) It looked to me that all of the TAR team, racers and crews, were allowed to pre-board. The airliner is a wide body jet. You can tell by the two aisles.
5) Both the Birman Banglasesh and Singapore Air flights from Singapore to Dhaka were wide body jets.
6) Only the very early China Airlines (CI752) flight at 6 am from Surabaya to Singapore was a wide body aircraft. The 10 am Silkair MI221 fight (Singapore codeshare) was a small body, single aisle, aircraft.
7) The interior of the jet the teams were seen entering seemed pretty austere to me. It did not look like what I would think a Singapore Airlines aircraft would look like. It seemed pretty bare bones, as a matter of fact, which I would think would suggest another airline.

There was a sign highlighted for just a second, just before Abbie/Ryan exited their cab at the travel agency. Maybe some of the screen grabbers will find that sign and we might be able to locate the travel agency.

I think that all teams were on MI221 SUB SIN 1000 1304 connecting to BG85 1515 1635 on June 2. T^his is what the travel agency people said, so why would that be jury-rigged? Sunset in Dhaka on June 2 was at 1935, which gave 3 hours to complete the tasks.   
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: georgiapeach on October 23, 2012, 08:10:16 PM
Here are two caps, see if they help:
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: Alenaveda on October 23, 2012, 08:19:58 PM
I think I found it, Haryono Tours & Travel PTY LTD:

(http://i1274.photobucket.com/albums/y426/Alenaveda/TAR21MISC/gedung_haryono_zps37e6f8e0.jpg)

I'm checking extra data, but has the same name, it's based on Surabaya and the logo matches with the one in the first cap.

According to their FB page, this is the adress in Surabaya:  Sulawesi 27-29, Surabaya 60281
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: apskip on October 24, 2012, 10:30:31 AM
I ask whether teams would have gone past the Surabaya airport and all the way into Surabaya. It doesn't seem logical to me.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: Alenaveda on October 24, 2012, 10:51:36 AM
According to their own website, they have offices on Surabaya, Malang, Semarang and Jakarta.  If it's right, the closest office to Bangil - not counting Surabaya - is Malang (always based on the website's info).
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: theschnauzers on October 24, 2012, 11:09:25 AM
I ask whether teams would have gone past the Surabaya airport and all the way into Surabaya. It doesn't seem logical to me.

If the teams were directed to the travel agency (given the nighttime release from the pit stop), then it wouldn't matter whether the airport was closer to the pit stop or not. And since the earliest flight they could take wasn't until 10:00 am., per the comments on air, the distance wouldn't matter.

The one thing I'm wondering is whether the neon signage we were shown in the episode is present at the Surabaya location mentioned above. The logo may be the same, but I did not see anything in the above photo of that location that looks the same as the storefront shown in the episode.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: Alenaveda on October 24, 2012, 11:38:09 AM
I ask whether teams would have gone past the Surabaya airport and all the way into Surabaya. It doesn't seem logical to me.

If the teams were directed to the travel agency (given the nighttime release from the pit stop), then it wouldn't matter whether the airport was closer to the pit stop or not. And since the earliest flight they could take wasn't until 10:00 am., per the comments on air, the distance wouldn't matter.

The one thing I'm wondering is whether the neon signage we were shown in the episode is present at the Surabaya location mentioned above. The logo may be the same, but I did not see anything in the above photo of that location that looks the same as the storefront shown in the episode.

The pic I posted is the one at the travel agency website (in fact, it's the only one), so we don't know if it's from Surabaya, Jakarta or one of the other cities where they've got offices.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: Chateau d If on October 24, 2012, 01:51:08 PM
Apskip, just in case there was any doubt in your mind that the Teams spent the night at the Dhaka airport and started leg 4 on the morning of June 3rd:  Ryan Danz Blog (http://ryandanz.com/dhaka-bangladesh/)

Quote
Starting with the airport, where I slept prior to my excursion into the city the following morning, I was reduced to prisoner status in a room only slightly larger than the lunchroom in a small jail.  It was one of those rooms that had antiquated fluorescent lighting bouncing off the linoleum tiled floor, mismatched benches of varying colors (mostly orange) and old box televisions that hung over head and ran the state political news. In Arabic. Very loudly.  On a loop. In the rear of the terminal was a make-shift mosque, where ongoing prayer services took place. Next to the prayer room, the bathrooms. There was no air conditioning, and in a country that reaches 120 degrees Fahrenheit by 10:00am, it wasn’t much less in the jail cell of a terminal.

Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: DrRox on October 24, 2012, 02:08:17 PM
"Haryono Tours & Travel PTY LTD" has three offices in Surabaya.

Corporate Head Office at   JL. Sulawesi 27-29 Surabaya 60281 (close to the CBD)


and two branch offices at

1)  JL. Panglima Sudirman 93-II  Surabaya 60271 (far, far NW of city central)

2)  Rich Palace blok C no 8   JL. Mayjend Sungkono  Surabaya  (SSW of city central)

Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: apskip on November 12, 2012, 11:47:41 AM
Strategies for plane flights provided the key drama for episode 7 and certainly the rationale for differential performance. Arriving at Attaturk International Airport in Istanbul, teams were faced with a wealth of choices on how to get to Moscow on June 7 or 8.

The best one, probably full or not available to any team, was TK415 nonstop to Moscow's Vvnukovo airport (not one of the "big 2" for Moscow arrivals) at 1707 2142. No team chose this route. Later on the same route was TK419 2323 0348+1.

Ryan/Abbie and Brent/Josh chose to fly through Frankfurt, which is notorious for having close connections result in failure (remember Uchella and Joyce in AR11). If their flight had arrived on time they had ample time for the connection. However, their flight had to have been TK1587 2232 2228, which arrived about one hour late and caused the connection on Aeroflot to be missed. They ended up having to reroute through Warsaw with FRA WAW LH1346 0731+1 0901+1 connecting to WAW SVO SU2001 1110+1 1502+1.

James/Jaymes and James/Abba decided on Amsterdam Schiphol for their connection and it was scheduled as close as the other one but came off without any issues. FRA AMS KL1674 1701 1948 connecting to KL807 2104 0201+1.

Trey/Lexi and Nadiya/Natalie went with a connection in Munich: TK1637 IST MUC 2016 2155 connecting to SU2325 2330 0254+1.   

An interesting question is why Ryan/Abbie and Brent/Josh did not take the flight to Moscow's Dodomedovo airport FRA DME LH1444 0733+1 1230+1. That arrived 2.5 hours ahead of the connection they took, adequate time to negotiate the Moscow subway system and come out ahead. My guess is that World Race Productions had issued a directive to fly not just to Moscow but only to Sheremetyevo airport
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: theschnauzers on November 12, 2012, 12:35:40 PM
Have teams ever flown into Moscow from outside Russia without using Sheremetyevo? IIRC, production has to use Sheremetyevo because of their equipment, and have to leave Russia from the same airport.

I was also surprised that teams did not seem to check the status of their flights out of Istanbul to see if there might be any delays. Teams should have been able to check and take action if they got information before boarding. (That first flight departing to Frankfurt was sitting in Istanbul, I assume, so I think that is a legitimate question to ask.)
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: maf on November 12, 2012, 03:47:16 PM
My guess is that World Race Productions had issued a directive to fly not just to Moscow but only to Sheremetyevo airport

In think you are right on the money here. In the episode we actually hear Abba say "We're trying to get into Moscow, Sheremetyevo", when asking for flights in Istanbul.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: Air on November 13, 2012, 03:39:51 AM
SVO is bigger than both DME and VKO though.

Also Aeroflot has its hub there.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: apskip on November 19, 2012, 11:20:18 AM
I am trying to guesstimate the disadvantage Ryan and Abbie incurred with inability to make the same flight as the rest of the teams out of Moscow.

The flights that 4 teams took on June 10 or 11 were probably SU2550 SVO AMS 1103 1220 Saturday and 1105 1231 Sunday.

The flights Ryan and Abbie got were probably through Frankfurt, SU2300 1125 1239 Saturday or 1133 1347 Sunday.
The killer is that the connecting flight is LH992, which on Saturday was 1343 1409 but on Sunday was 1434 1558. That means Ryan/Abbie would start with not quite 2 hours to make up if it was on June 10 but 3.5 hours to make up if it was June 11.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: DrRox on November 26, 2012, 10:34:11 AM
Moscow (SVO) to Amsterdam (AMS) flights.........

Chips direct
SU 2250  10:45 am to 12:15pm(booked)   11:05am to 12:31pm(actual)

Trey/Lexie via Larnaca, Cyprus
1) SU 2070  6:01am to 8:20am
2) CY 498    9:20am to 1:05 pm

N and N via Rome
1) AZ 595   5:50am-7:45am
2) AZ 108   8:55am to 11:30am (booked)   9:10am-11:43am (actual)

Abbie/Ryan via Frankfurt
1) SU 2306  9:26am to 10:41am
2) WA 1766 11:21am to 12:39pm  (missed connection--it left 9 minutes early)
3) LH  992   12:55pm to 2:05pm   (per episode canceled, mechanical problem, it actually flew later that day)
4) WA 1768  2:34pm to 3:47pm

Farmers  via Oslo
1) SU 2230  11:22am to 11:38am
2) KL 1146   2:25pm to 4:05 pm
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: apskip on November 29, 2012, 08:58:18 PM
Trains leave Schiphol Airport for Amsterdam Centraal station all morning, afternoon and evening with a frequency of every 15 to 20 minutes. Th trip takes about 15 minutes.

Schiphol would also surely be the "outlying station" you refer to, Dr. Rox. It could be other large cities in the Netherlands such as Rotterdam/The Hague, Eindhoven or Groningen. However. few if any of them have any direct flights from Eastern Europe.

apskip....I think you have been smokin some bad caca tonight. Schipol is not an outlying station. For gods sake it, is in an Amsterdam surburb as you well know. No, you have no idea what my outlying station is......simpley because I dont know what it is..........so maybe you should stop trying to intrepret other people's ideas and stick to your own.....as wrong as they are most of the time.

Hmm! What does episode 9 tell us? Was it really some "outlying station" not to include the obvious Schiphol Airport?  Who is smoking bad caca?

However, I am equally guilty. take a look at post 142 in this thread which stated my belief that all 5 teams should be using nonstop flights from Sheremetyevo to Amsterdam.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: apskip on November 29, 2012, 09:18:37 PM
I have gone back to look at the ferry schedules for Tuesdays (and probably almost everyday) Palma to Barcelona. There are numerous flights throughout the day. There are only 2 mid-day ferries which will get to Barcelona in time for the Talgo train:

Acciona 1200 1930
Balearia 1239 1945
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: apskip on November 30, 2012, 01:53:24 PM
I can go with the flow when I found out that the date assumptions made earlier for the nonstop AMS PMI were not applicable and no nonstops existed yesterday or today. No problem!

Here are the flights teams could have taken AMS BCN on 12 June:
HV5181 0617 0820  Nadiya/Nadine
VY8318 0723 0930  Jaymes/James
KL1065 0754 1009  Trey/Lexi
HV5135 0951 1200  Josh/Brent
plus several more

The ferry schedules Barcelona Palma are crystal clear:
one ferry per day on Balearia 2300 0630+1
one ferry per day on Acciona 2300 0700+1
The teams were shown actually sailing on the Balearia ferry.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: apskip on November 30, 2012, 02:11:14 PM
There are approximately hourly flights from Palma de Mallorca back to Barcelona.

Teams may have the option of taking these ferries, which are tight on arrival versus train departure:

Balearia 1230 1945
Acciona 1200 1930

Talgo train departure is from Barcelona-Eastacio de Franca at 2043 and arrives Orleans 0716 (note - there is no need to go to Paris since you would just turn around and come back). The smart thing to do (remember AR1) is to get off in Orleans, which is a much shorter distance from Tours than Paris is. The earliest train from Orleans to Tours is 0740 arriving 0856. Tours is the center of the Loire chateau region.

Chateau Chenonceau is approximately a half hour TER train ride from Tours, but the distance is short enough that taxis could be used.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: apskip on December 03, 2012, 12:41:45 PM
I have been working with the current SNCF train schedules and I found only these 2 direct trains between Tours and Chenonceux:

1400 1424
1445 1518

I have no access to older summer SNCF schedules. There may be a plethora of trains in the tourist season and that would have provided many morning alternatives for AR21 teams arriving on June 14. this information does increase the probability that teams took taxis to get around the Loire Valley.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: apskip on December 10, 2012, 12:51:20 PM
The flight that was taken by the final 3 AR21 teams was AR22 CDG JFK 0820 0957.

The individuals who on this thread on either June 15 or June 16 mentioned AF22 were me, Xarles, dpe and Dr. Rox. There was a reference to earlier postings postulating about this flight, but they are not on this thread so I could not locate them.

Note: I have corrected an error due to Dr. Rox' comment below.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: DrRox on December 10, 2012, 03:40:49 PM
The flight that was taken by the final 3 AR21 teams was AR22 CDG JFK 0820 0957.

The individuals who on this thread on either June 15 or June 16 mentioned AR22 were me, Xarles, dpe and Dr. Rox. There was a reference to earlier postings postulating about this flight, but they are not on this thread so I could not locate them.

I think you mistyped the flight code.........it was AF 22....not AR22.

I checked current train schedules and there is not a middle of the night train from Tours (St Pierre des Corps) to CDG, so I suspect that the taxis took them all the way to CDG. It is about a 3 hour drive and 180 miles.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: apskip on December 10, 2012, 06:30:33 PM
I agree that I had a typo when it should have been AF22. The telecast did show an AA plane.  The first American Airlines flight was AA45 1202 1423.

I agree that the teams would have gone all the way to CDG from Tours by  taxi. Someone mentioned they received $500 for that leg. That would be the reason why.

 
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: maf on December 20, 2012, 10:48:10 AM
I agree that I had a typo when it should have been AF22. The telecast did show an AA plane.  The first American Airlines flight was AA45 1202 1423.

I would rather think that they actually used the AA flight. Things which indicate this are:

I also assume that the decoy teams made their runs before the real teams arrived so they could be ready at the finish line in case somebody had an amazing memory for words and flew through the final road block. This would explain the sightings which occurred before the AA flight landed.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: apskip on December 20, 2012, 06:07:58 PM
One way to analyze has the logic as follows:

Sunset was 2030 in NYC on June 16, 2012
Disembarking from the plane and getting though customs was at least 30 minutes (and probably more)
Distance to Coney Island indicate it should take about 15 minutes
Finding and interpreting the postcard appeared to take 15 to 30 minutes
the 7 mile trip to Brooklyn Navy Yard on a Saturday would take about 30 minutes
safety setup for the ROADBLOCK was the major time here, probably about 15 minutes
taxi to Lombardi's Pizza took about 15 minutes
Pizza Delivery took at least 30 minutes
taxi to United Nations Building took about 15 minutes
final ROADBLOCK at UN took at least 2.5 hours, slightly more for Josh/Brent and more for Jaymes/James and Trey/Lexi.

That totals 5.25 hours, which makes the AA flight possible although AF22 has provides a great deal more buffer time.
Title: Re: AR21 Transportation
Post by: DrRox on December 21, 2012, 03:00:22 AM
After looking at the episode again....it most likely was AA45. The plane they entered had a big ONE WORLD decal right by the door........which is American's group. The interior matched all the AA 767s I have flown to South America for the last 15 years.

The Air France flight would have made a good flight to get Production, Phil and Twins to NYC ahead of the racing teams.

This was posted at 11:38am NYC time, so sort of implies that Phil was on the AF flight that arrived at 10am.
Gabriel Farofaldane ‏@Gabolicious
Just saw the host of the Amazing Race while waiting in line for the Ferry to Gov Isle for the Jazz Age Lawn Festival!

https://twitter.com/#!/Gabolicious

This is from NYC

I guess if Phil had a helicopter waiting, he could have made the AF 8 the night after the Pit Stop at Chenonceaux on the 15th.