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The Amazing Race => The Amazing Race Discussion => Topic started by: redskevin88 on July 11, 2010, 01:02:57 AM
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Decided to start a thread for what you called "Mactors" [and also recruited teams]
My personal opinion... as long as they know what they are going into (Ida & Tania, ARA3 one good example), likeable personality (Marc & Rovilson, Paula & Natasha ARA2, Mel & Mike AR14, Flight Time & Big Easy, AR15, apart from the Mika-Canaan thing) and are genuine fans I have no problems, and of cause competent racers. Maria & Tiffany, Mika & Canaan and Aubrey & Jac comes to mine about who I DON'T WANT to see again.
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I don't mind Mactors, as long as they have applied properly. The thing I really can't stand is RECRUITED TEAMS
But you talk about competent teams, what about the likes of Debra and Steve? They certainly were not recruited, but it was obvious that they were doomed from the word go.
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I don't mind Mactors, as long as they have applied properly. The thing I really can't stand is RECRUITED TEAMS
But you talk about competent teams, what about the likes of Debra and Steve? They certainly were not recruited, but it was obvious that they were doomed from the word go.
I've only seen, the most S10-S16, and ARA2-3, parts of ARA1, you'll have to enlighten me on the early seasons...
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I don't mind Mactors, as long as they have applied properly. The thing I really can't stand is RECRUITED TEAMS
But you talk about competent teams, what about the likes of Debra and Steve? They certainly were not recruited, but it was obvious that they were doomed from the word go.
I've only seen, the most S10-S16, and ARA2-3, parts of ARA1, you'll have to enlighten me on the early seasons...
Debra and Steve admitted they would not be good racers, and spent all of the first leg at the back of the pack before getting eliminated.
Nicer, sweeter folk you will not meet though (At least on camera)
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I don't mind Mactors, as long as they have applied properly. The thing I really can't stand is RECRUITED TEAMS
I agree. Brian & Ericka were a "mactor" team I didn't mind seeing. From what I can remember reading in one of their post-race interviews, they had been long-tome fans of the show who finally took the next step and actually applied for the show. It's the teams like Brent & Caite I can't stand. She's famous for saying something stupid; why does that mean she deserves a trip around the world and I just get to watch from my couch?
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I don't mind Mactors, as long as they have applied properly. The thing I really can't stand is RECRUITED TEAMS
But you talk about competent teams, what about the likes of Debra and Steve? They certainly were not recruited, but it was obvious that they were doomed from the word go.
I've only seen, the most S10-S16, and ARA2-3, parts of ARA1, you'll have to enlighten me on the early seasons...
Debra and Steve admitted they would not be good racers, and spent all of the first leg at the back of the pack before getting eliminated.
Nicer, sweeter folk you will not meet though (At least on camera)
Every season sees a team or two that we look at and assume they won't make it very long. Kate and Pat in S12, Anita and Arthur in S13, Steve and Linda in S14, Shannon and Jody in S16, etc. Casting won't put 12 teams out there who are all what we would call "competent" or "competitive".
However, for every one of these teams we get a team like Margie and Luke who so many of us wrote off early. I believe that many of us thought they wouldn't make it through the first few legs, but sure enough they proved everyone wrong. Also, in S14 you had a team eliminated first off the bat who many would have thought had Top 3 potential in Preston and Amanda. A young, athletic couple.
Casting has to put teams out there who are different and who show different talents, personalities, etc. I don't like recruited teams at all. But they're paid to put what they think are the best teams for the show out there. Sadly, it appears that more and more they believe they need to recruit these teams.
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likeable personality (Marc & Rovilson, Paula & Natasha ARA2, Mel & Mike AR14, Flight Time & Big Easy, AR15, apart from the Mika-Canaan thing)
If they were likable, I'm Lana Turner. Which I'm not.
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likeable personality
BAM! Nobody will be able to agree on that definition, so you can forget about it.
The producers have chosen ratings over classiness, and I guarantee you we'll be seeing a lot of stuntcasting.
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likeable personality (Marc & Rovilson, Paula & Natasha ARA2, Mel & Mike AR14, Flight Time & Big Easy, AR15, apart from the Mika-Canaan thing)
If they were likable, I'm Lana Turner. Which I'm not.
Haha Agree completely. Those 2 fools remind me a lot of another team I CAN'T STAND - the Hippies from S9. Everything they said was rehearsed, from the little jokes (which weren't funny by any means) to the reactions on the mat etc. I want genuine reactions, not contrived stuff racers made up before even going on the Race. 96% the things Marc & Rovilson/Hippies said on camera were prepared BS. Competent racers all 4 of them, just couldn't stand their playing to the camera 24/7, the fakeness of it all.
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Mactors does not stand for recruited teams. It stands for Model/Actor teams. In the end, ALL teams are recruited.
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Mactors does not stand for recruited teams. It stands for Model/Actor teams. In the end, ALL teams are recruited.
1. EDIT: Fine. Mel and Mike are "mactors". For me, they aren't.
2. :jam: YES to that. :lol3: But seriously, I have no complaints whatsoever with "invited" people. You cannot eradicate "inviting" in any of the Reality Shows. It's just part of it. That's IMO.
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Mactors does not stand for recruited teams. It stands for Model/Actor teams. In the end, ALL teams are recruited.
1. LOL. How come Mel and Mike are mactors? :lol3: These people here use language without even researching about it. Hello? Google is god!
Mike White had originally been chosen to participate on The Amazing Race 13 with director Jon Kasdan, but the latter dropped out before filming. The show's casting director wanted White for Season 14 and he was ultimately paired with his father for the Race.
Then the casting director said to Mike, “We’d like you for season 14 without Kasdan. Who would you like to go with you?” [Then she met me at a party], and she went to Michael and said, “I want your Dad.” So they had me do the psychological exams and physical exams and all that kind of stuff and somehow I squeaked through.
Mel and Mike were recruited.... Mike White is a actor/film director... they fit the category
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Just to clear everyone.
Mactors = Model/Actors. Some are Eric and Jeremy. Tyler and James. Derek and Drew.
A mactor is a person who models and/or acts. It was first coined by Hera in describing the alliance between Freddy/Racist (models) and Floden/Aaron (actors), however it has since been used to describe most teams who are young, pretty and have or want ties to the entertainment industry, usually with a loose relationship with one another (you won't see many married mactors on TAR).
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Decided to start a thread for what you called "Mactors"
My personal opinion... as long as they know what they are going into (Ida & Tania, ARA3 one good example), likeable personality (Marc & Rovilson, Paula & Natasha ARA2, Mel & Mike AR14, Flight Time & Big Easy, AR15, apart from the Mika-Canaan thing) and are genuine fans I have no problems, and of cause competent racers. Maria & Tiffany, Mika & Canaan and Aubrey & Jac comes to mine about who I DON'T WANT to see again.
I am reminded of the phrase "cannon fodder", for which "the Charge of the Light Brigade" at Balaclava in the Crimean War is the quintessential example. I can think of several teams that meet that definition, with little hope of going past 1 or 2 legs:
AR4 - Debra and Steve
AR9 - Joni and Lisa
AR9 - Scott and John
AR13 - Arthur and Anita
AR14 - Steve (he could have gone a long way with anyone better for an amazing race than his wife) and Linda
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I think what bothers me most in mactor casting is lazy casting and production.
I can see why casting actors is better for reality television for a production stand point. They know how to behave in front of a camera, they are better in reading scripts and they then to threat the the entire thing more as a gig then a competition. Casting wise, actors has an upper hand. Beside shobiz connections (that are very important), going through the very grueling casting is something that actors a accustomed to, for them it is considered actual work and the TV exposure will promote their career. On the other hand this experience could be a hassle for people that just want to do this thing for the fun and come back to their everyday lives. I don't think most employers will look kindly on frequent disappearances for casting interviews, the show and promosions, especially when it comes to reality TV. There's a reason why most of the "ordinary" people that are cast for this show are either students, retired or self employed.
Taking this in consideration I am still highly against actor casting since I think most of the times they less genuine and more camera aware and are not that intresting to watch (Especially when it comes to semi celebrities like Jet & Cord, Dustin & Kandice and the globetrotters).
P.S. I am actually support recruits, it can potentially produce divercity. You just need to recruit the right people :lol:
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I am reminded of the phrase "cannon fodder", for which "the Charge of the Light Brigade" at Balaclava in the Crimean War is the quintessential example. I can think of several teams that meet that definition, with little hope of going past 1 or 2 legs:
AR13 - Arthur and Anita
I have to disagree with Anita & Arthur Anita & Arthur were undone by their detour choice, granted, if it came down to a footrace with Marissa & Brooke (it nearly was I think) they would have lost, but given the Southern Bellies got to as far as New Zealand (which they got lost more than anything else), it would be hard to know how far they would have gone.
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I used to have a problem with mactors and recruits filling spots that ordinary people should have had. Then I realized how many new fans the recruits brought to the show and without them the show may have died off.
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I don't mind Mactors, as long as they have applied properly. The thing I really can't stand is RECRUITED TEAMS
But you talk about competent teams, what about the likes of Debra and Steve? They certainly were not recruited, but it was obvious that they were doomed from the word go.
I've only seen, the most S10-S16, and ARA2-3, parts of ARA1, you'll have to enlighten me on the early seasons...
Debra and Steve admitted they would not be good racers, and spent all of the first leg at the back of the pack before getting eliminated.
Nicer, sweeter folk you will not meet though (At least on camera)
Every season sees a team or two that we look at and assume they won't make it very long. Kate and Pat in S12, Anita and Arthur in S13, Steve and Linda in S14, Shannon and Jody in S16, etc. Casting won't put 12 teams out there who are all what we would call "competent" or "competitive".
However, for every one of these teams we get a team like Margie and Luke who so many of us wrote off early. I believe that many of us thought they wouldn't make it through the first few legs, but sure enough they proved everyone wrong. Also, in S14 you had a team eliminated first off the bat who many would have thought had Top 3 potential in Preston and Amanda. A young, athletic couple.
Casting has to put teams out there who are different and who show different talents, personalities, etc. I don't like recruited teams at all. But they're paid to put what they think are the best teams for the show out there. Sadly, it appears that more and more they believe they need to recruit these teams.
:lol3:
My family and friends wrote us off early as well! It was priceless to see people's reactions when we kept getting further and further deep into the race. It was priceless to see people's reactions when we made it to the F3.
I guess I should have mentioned that I was a big fan of Amazing Race since the very first day of Season One. :-[
But, I get a lot that people thought we were recruited. We weren't recruited. I can clear it up for Mike and Mel - They weren't recruited. Mike applied with one of his friends for Season 13. His friend dropped out so they asked Mike to find a new teammate for Season 14. Mel came along.
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Maria & Tiffany, Mika & Canaan and Aubrey & Jac comes to mine about who I DON'T WANT to see again.
I actually have to disagree about Mika and Canaan being Mactors over normal people. Yes, both were involved in the entertainment industry, but they also were each coming from a small town lifestyle. I remember in their team video that Canaan mention watching Mika's brother graduate from a holler. Neither were exactly living the high life in Nashville yet. What I enjoyed about them was that they stuck together and never fought until Mika's waterslide incident. They truly seemed to appreciate the experience the race had given them.
In terms of Mactors in general, I think the term has been used way to loosely these past few seasons. People are already referring to the teams that feature beauty queens as mactors even when the other partner has no connection to the entertainment industry. As long as the team wants to be there, I don't care how they came to be on my TV screen.
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I agree with banredbeans in that some of these recruited teams bring new viewers to the show, and ultimately that benefits all of us. I may not like it, and I wish it wasnt so, but that's the reality. Jeff & Jordan brough alot of fans to TAR that had never watched it before. Same with Rob & Amber, Caite, the Globetrotters, Maria & Tiffany etc.
That being said, I could go a really long time without ever hearing "It looked like fun and thought it would be good exposure so I had my agent contact the producers" again.
However, it seems lately that even the "regular" teams are recruited. Being approached on a first date, being asked to apply based on a picture on FaceBook etc. I HATE that there are teams being offered this amazing opportunity that have never seen the show before. I HATE that "relationships" are being created to fill a spot. (do you remember the good old days when BVM claimed that this was a relationship show as much as a travel one?!) And I HATE that this seems to be happening more and more recently. (last season had 7 or 8 teams -out of 11- that were "recruited" in one way or another!)
I just find it hard to believe that the producers cant find interesting, diverse people with real relationships in the thousands of applications they recieve.
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What I like is seeing ordinary people doing extraordinary things.
I hate the recruited in a bar thing.... hate the never seen the show before. I can live with the Jeff and Jordan's...they bring ratings, and ratings give us more shows. But please CBS, try to keep this to one or two teams a season, and keep hope alive for the thousands who dream of being on the race and work hard to make it a reality?
Otherwise why then bother having casting at all? Part of the TAR mystique is the thought that "I could be doing that", and the seeing yourself running the race through identifying with one of the teams. If that hope and faith in the casting is lost, then some of the TAR magic WILL disappear.
And I like the reactions of "ordinary" not camera trained racers. It is far more appealing to watch. Except for Mike and Mel, I adored them!
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If these people are diehard fans, applying season after season without pressure from an agent or two, and are willing to do anything it took to get around the world... Then by all means, I accept them with open arms.
But if these people are found in a bar, or have some sort of entertainment connection (or even if they've been in a pageant of all things - which I guess I should do if I want to be on TAR, apparently) with no idea of what the hell they're doing the minute they're told they're going to be "recruited" for this race... Then get the hell away from my TV. Please. You add no excitement for me. Those kinds of people are vanilla. No substance. We've seen people like you before.
GP is right. Why bother having casting when production could just go out and get all the teams from the entertainment industry? Unfortunately, there will probably be one season when you'll see all mactors/beauty queens. And then when you find out that all of the teams were basically picked without applications, you'll feel like all hope is lost.
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However, it seems lately that even the "regular" teams are recruited. Being approached on a first date, being asked to apply based on a picture on FaceBook etc. I HATE that there are teams being offered this amazing opportunity that have never seen the show before. I HATE that "relationships" are being created to fill a spot. (do you remember the good old days when BVM claimed that this was a relationship show as much as a travel one?!)
I agree, re watching last season, Brent & Catie's relationship look so fake on television
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I used to have a problem with mactors and recruits filling spots that ordinary people should have had. Then I realized how many new fans the recruits brought to the show and without them the show may have died off.
I absolutely disagree. The show would have continued to thrive. I have little doubt in my mind that if TAR 14-16 had had more teams of "ordinary folks" that wanted to be there and wanted to win, those seasons would have been much better. I don't care if it starts to sound "stale": The original idea for this show of "Ordinary people doing extraordinary things" would still recruit many more viewers than "come watch as Brent & Caite try to overcome Caite's tainted media image by running The Amazing Race". Yeah, right. I for one have 0% interest in that. Maybe it's just because I didn't even know who Caite was before season 16, but I liked her more at the beginning of the race than I did by the end of it. Overall I would say that the overwhelming presence of mactors and "recruits" has been a major waste of time and energy for ratings that never really materialized. :groan:
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To be fair, each season always has mactors. TAR 5 and TAR 12 apparently has quite a few of them, and I consider those seasons as some of the best the show has produced.
The moral of the story: hire mactors if you really wish to, but don't make them so obvious, fake, and annoying.
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No, Caelestor, the moral of the story is DON'T HIRE MACTORS. I agree with Hooky that ordinary folk are who I want to watch. They may not have the eye appeal of the mactors, but they have the huge advantage of being more "real."
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To be fair, each season always has mactors. TAR 5 and TAR 12 apparently has quite a few of them, and I consider those seasons as some of the best the show has produced.
The moral of the story: hire mactors if you really wish to, but don't make them so obvious, fake, and annoying.
If they are going to try to represent America's population as well as possible, they would probably have a couple mactors every few seasons or so. But to consciously reserve several spots every season for mactors is just plain wrong.
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To be fair, each season always has mactors. TAR 5 and TAR 12 apparently has quite a few of them, and I consider those seasons as some of the best the show has produced.
The moral of the story: hire mactors if you really wish to, but don't make them so obvious, fake, and annoying.
If they are going to try to represent America's population as well as possible, they would probably have a couple mactors every few seasons or so. But to consciously reserve several spots every season for mactors is just plain wrong.
The problem about that is that these recruited teams don't represent the population of America as much as they think they do.
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The problem about that is that these recruited teams don't represent the population of America as much as they think they do.
Of course they don't. How embarrassing it would be if they did. :lol:
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The problem about that is that these recruited teams don't represent the population of America as much as they think they do.
Of course they don't. How embarrassing it would be if they did. :lol:
The whole world would consist of beauty queens and people in the entertainment industry. Oh, God. *shudder*
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Don't forget that the only reason TAR is exists is because it generates advertising revenue dollars for CBS.
The way you attract advertisers is by having a large audience watching.
How do you increase the audience?
As BVM says, TAR is a show about relationships. The relationship between the two teammates, between the teams racing, and most importantly, the relationship between the teams and the audience.
Because the audience has a pre-existing relationship with the mactors, Americans care about what happens to them before they race around the world, which increases initial ratings. With unknown racers, the relationship between the racers and the audience starts at zero and has to be built by clever editing and direction over time. With only 11 episodes, its difficult to achieve an emotional connection between the audience and an unknown team. Maybe you could achieve it in a few episodes, but by that time your ratings could have tanked.
When casting/recruiting mactors for the show, I imagine TPTB go through an analysis of America's current relationship with the team and how that relationship could increase ratings before the race and as they encounter different situations during the race. TAR 16 is a good example when you look at Caite and Brent and Jeff and Jordan.
How did America feel about this team before the race?
Caite and Brent - America thinks Caite is an airheaded joke and maybe disliked for making the USA americans look foolish and uneducated.
Jeff and Jordan - America loves the sweethearts. Two good looking all-american, apple pie kids that you want to see more of.
How will America feel when this team encounters hardship and failure?
Caite and Brent - "See, I knew she was stupid. I'm outraged that she was allowed on the show. I can't wait to see what happens to her next week." Schadenfreude.
Jeff and Jordan - "Ah, poor kids. I hope they turn it around next week."
How will America feel when the team succeeds?
Caite and Brent - "Hey, maybe she's not so stupid. I wonder how she will surprise me next week."
Jeff and Jordan - "Yahoo. Can't wait to see my favourite team next week."
How will America feel when the team's adversaries are negative towards them?
Caite and Brent - "She deserves it. Ohh, I wonder if there will be a cat fight next week."
Jeff and Jordan - "I'm outraged. How could they be so mean to them?"
I think the real challenge is to find teams that evoke an instant emotional response in the audience - that's what provides the "stickiness factor" and increases ratings.
Because most of us here are TAR aficionados, our opinion of mactors is tainted by our secret (or not) desire to be on the race ourselves. The more mactors used, the less our chance of being on the race.
Here's a solution - do something that causes America to have an opinion of you - good or bad - then apply.
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Now THAT is a really great analysis! :hearts:
I am a purist at heart, and would of course rather have 100% new fresh ordinary people on the race.
BUT I am also a realist, and am happy for TAR to do whatever it takes to keep the show alive. And some of the casting choices we originally questioned have later turned into beloved teams...look at Mel and Mike, Zev and Justin.
So a few teams who bring in a some built in fans and hopefully expand TAR to a new audience...okay. Some of the Jeff/Jordan fans fell in love with TAR and will be back, and it may happen with one of the TAR 17 teams as well.
But just don't forget the premise "ordinary people doing extraordinary things" either when you cast, please CBS? Keep hope alive for the thousands of applicants at home working out, planning videos, shooting videos. It is those people who are part of the bedrock of TAR's great fan base... and one of the big reason's TAR has lasted so long. If you take away the hope that "hey..I could do that!" by providing no applications, going with more and more recruited teams, using stunt teams or seasons, then there is no chance for viewers to dream. And this show has always been about a dream...that anyone could apply and have a chance. Take away that hope...and the show loses its primary mystique. And when that finally happens, then I believe we will finally see the end of our beloved show.
So do what you must for ratings, give us a few recruited or stunt teams if you must, we understand. But use your applicant pool as well, there is GOLD in there.
Thanks wp! :jam:
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Don't forget that the only reason TAR is exists is because it generates advertising revenue dollars for CBS.
The way you attract advertisers is by having a large audience watching.
Here's a solution - do something that causes America to have an opinion of you - good or bad - then apply.
WP, this is a spot-on analysis of casting and motivation by a network to produce a show that people will follow, talk about with friends, invest in their favorites. Well said! :tup:
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I'm not a fan of more recruited or celebrity teams, but I agree that the reasoning behind it is solid. Thanks, WP!
I do not, however, concede that TAR NEEDS this kind of thing to stay alive. I think it can and will thrive just as well (if not better), with teams that people will develop opinions of over time. Plus, the reality is that there are people (of which I am one) who really don't care about semi-celebrities and mactors. For example, I have absolutely no opinion on Justin Bieber (a random celebrity I don't want or need to know about). If he were cast for the race, I would only be annoyed that people even care to obsessively follow him at all. :lol:
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I did not really start watching TAR until the All Star season with Charla & Mirna. Charla was one of my favorites because it was physically challenging for her but she did the best she could. Who would have thought that she would even be chosen for the race. She wasn't a mactor, she wasn't a beauty pageant winner and yet she made the race interesting for me.
There is a place for "ordinary people doing extraordinary things" which also builds an audience.
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I guess I will be the dissenting vote on this one WP. I don't think that mactors or recruits add that many more viewers. TAR has a base. One that has been there from the beginning. I believe that if casting keeps up this trend of recruiting half or more of the teams on each race that they will lose their base. Peach is right. Interesting unknowns who have never been in front of a camera react totally different from someone who has already been in the spotlight. Also, for example, Jeff and Jordan were unknowns before BB. The way they were on that show was different from the way they were on TAR. They were jaded by the time they got to TAR. If the casting department would take the time to look hard enough, I am sure they could find the next Rob/Amber, Frat boys, Team guido, Gretchen and Meridith. etc. etc. etc. As Peach says, if TAR keeps casting so many semi-celebs the dream will die for all the hopefuls. TAR'S faithful base. When that happens, TAR will be no more. I hope that doesn't happen.
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I did not really start watching TAR until the All Star season with Charla & Mirna. Charla was one of my favorites because it was physically challenging for her but she did the best she could. Who would have thought that she would even be chosen for the race. She wasn't a mactor, she wasn't a beauty pageant winner and yet she made the race interesting for me.
There is a place for "ordinary people doing extraordinary things" which also builds an audience.
I don't think Charla was an "ordinary people doing extraordinary things", but she is a good example of a non-celebrity who fills the same role in casting as a celebrity - they exact a reaction from the audience right from the beginning.
I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I would suggest when you first saw Charla you had an instant emotional response - "OMG - she's only 4 feet tall. How can she possibly compete against the other racers"
I had a comparable reaction to Sarah Reinertsen right from the beginning of TAR 10- "She has a prosthetic limb. Thats amazing. I want to see more."
Other people would have had similar reactions to Luke Adams (TAR 14) , Zev Glassenberg (TAR 15) because of their respective challenges. Similarly, many people react (good and bad) to homosexuals, which is why I think we see so many interesting gay people cast.
My point is that some people react to celebrities, others react to people who face physical or mental challenges or are different from themselves. But the important thing is that they do evoke a response of some sort as the race starts. That's the stickiness factor that keeps the audience coming back and that's why they get cast.
I won't talk about any specifics outside of the spoiler threads - but I think TAR 17 is going to be interesting in its casting choices... can't wait till September!
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Charla is an interesting example. It's one of those times when production/network went out looking for a specific type--in this case, little people. Charla saw a notice on a little people listserv looking for applicants. She and her tag-along Mirna then sent in a tape and went through the usual interview process.
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I guess I will be the dissenting vote on this one WP. I don't think that mactors or recruits add that many more viewers. TAR has a base. One that has been there from the beginning. I believe that if casting keeps up this trend of recruiting half or more of the teams on each race that they will lose their base. Peach is right. Interesting unknowns who have never been in front of a camera react totally different from someone who has already been in the spotlight. Also, for example, Jeff and Jordan were unknowns before BB. The way they were on that show was different from the way they were on TAR. They were jaded by the time they got to TAR. If the casting department would take the time to look hard enough, I am sure they could find the next Rob/Amber, Frat boys, Team guido, Gretchen and Meridith. etc. etc. etc. As Peach says, if TAR keeps casting so many semi-celebs the dream will die for all the hopefuls. TAR'S faithful base. When that happens, TAR will be no more. I hope that doesn't happen.
IAWTP. What sustains an audience is good will, and TAR may be losing it. Casting celebrities is a great way to get ratings in the short term but leads to declining numbers in the long term. People may watch to hate on the mactors, but they mainly watch to support people they can sympathize with.
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I guess I will be the dissenting vote on this one WP. I don't think that mactors or recruits add that many more viewers. TAR has a base. One that has been there from the beginning. I believe that if casting keeps up this trend of recruiting half or more of the teams on each race that they will lose their base. Peach is right. Interesting unknowns who have never been in front of a camera react totally different from someone who has already been in the spotlight. Also, for example, Jeff and Jordan were unknowns before BB. The way they were on that show was different from the way they were on TAR. They were jaded by the time they got to TAR. If the casting department would take the time to look hard enough, I am sure they could find the next Rob/Amber, Frat boys, Team guido, Gretchen and Meridith. etc. etc. etc. As Peach says, if TAR keeps casting so many semi-celebs the dream will die for all the hopefuls. TAR'S faithful base. When that happens, TAR will be no more. I hope that doesn't happen.
IAWTP. What sustains an audience is good will, and TAR may be losing it. Casting celebrities is a great way to get ratings in the short term but leads to declining numbers in the long term. People may watch to hate on the mactors, but they mainly watch to support people they can sympathize with.
Agreed. Though celebs might bring in temporary audiences, more often than not, those audiences leave after their team is gone. So, if a team is cast and they bring their own "fans" but fail to last but two or three episodes, then a large majority of those fans are gone after their team is eliminated. In addition to this, the die hard TAR fans are even more put out because the season is filling up with people who aren't "one of them". Therefore, you are running a risk of keeping fans who are there for a team and not the show while alienating some of those who are bigger fans of the show.
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Agreed. Though celebs might bring in temporary audiences, more often than not, those audiences leave after their team is gone. So, if a team is cast and they bring their own "fans" but fail to last but two or three episodes, then a large majority of those fans are gone after their team is eliminated. In addition to this, the die hard TAR fans are even more put out because the season is filling up with people who aren't "one of them". Therefore, you are running a risk of keeping fans who are there for a team and not the show while alienating some of those who are bigger fans of the show.
Exactly. You hit the nail on the head. :tup:
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Well some points.
1. The show has always (even going to the very first season) had actor/models on it. It's always been part of the show.
2. Casting does not get applications that match the % of the population based on a persons career. In fact I would guess that actors/models are more likely to submit an application then any other profession.
3. TV is a visual medium (for good or bad), very rarely do we get ugly racers (certainly no where near the actual makeup of the average US citizen). So casting is already going to be more likely to look after someone who is average or better looking. They also depend on both sent in and in person interviews, in my experience actors (especially) on average come across better in both personal interviews and video or digital recordings. These factors all help encourage a higher number of this group to be cast then what exist natural in the US.
As for recruited teams we have had all sorts. So its hard for me to just say I dislike the practice.
But I will say that in a couple of seasons I did really disagree with casting. Season 6 (and they had many teams I loved) and season 12 (with an unheard number of teams who already knew each other).
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Well some points.
1. The show has always (even going to the very first season) had actor/models on it. It's always been part of the show.
2. Casting does not get applications that match the % of the population based on a persons career. In fact I would guess that actors/models are more likely to submit an application then any other profession.
mswood......
Sometimes it is pretty scary just how much we think alike. I have always wondered how the Season One teams were recruited/cast. If Rob and Brennan were not in the modeling biz, besides being lawyers, they sure should have been. In doing research, I just found one comment by Joe and Bill, that they saw an announcement on the Internet and applied that way. Not just anyone can afford to take six weeks off and walk away from their jobs to go film a TV pilot, basically. As you said, some peoples' choice of careers will make it easier for them to work for WRP. I would assume that WRP were posting announcements in the dailey trades to get people to apply.
Season One teams....
New York area recruits.
1) Matt and Anna...from Hartford, Conn
2) Frank and Margarita...from Queens
3) Kevin and Drew...from Staton Island I think
4) Lenny and Karyn...from across the Hudson in Jersey
From Philly area
1) Pat and Brenda...actually a little south of Philly
From Texas
1) Kim and Leslie....from Houston
2) Nancy and Emily...from Waco
3) Dave and Margretta...from Dallas (Rockdale)
From Los Angeles area
1) Rob and Brennan
2) Paul and Amiee
3) Joe and Bill
It has always interested me in how all but one team came from three clusters of recruiting areas. I guess you could put Pat and Brenda in the NYC group, because I would think that they are closer to NYC than Kim and Leslie are to Dallas. Waco is in the middle between Houston and Dallas. For some reason, I always thought Joe and Bill were from NYC, but on there team info page for Season One, Bill says he reads the Los Angeles Times everyday.....I guess he could have read it everyday in NYC, that just doesnt make sense to me.
Maybe one of you TAR Historians can send me a PM if you do not wish to post how Season One was recruited/cast. Thanks in advance.
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I know that Paul was and still is a fringe actor.
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I have always wondered how the Season One teams were recruited/cast.
For some teams, by a simple group posting (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/forsistersonlytravelspot/message/15) (the Sammi mentioned is probably Sammi Mendenhall (http://www.linkedin.com/in/sammimendenhall)).
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wow...the good old days! Fun to see that! I think I remember Bil and Joe saying they read something too...I'll have to ask them.
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Thanks slowhatch. I really figured it must have been an obscure post like that. I, personally, have never had any real complaints about who has ever been cast. I see the term "cannon fodder" used by a lot of people on a lot of boards and never really understand it. The older people team has only gone out in last place once that I can remember, Anita and Arthur. As far as season one, who would have thought that Matt and Anna would have been out first. They were young and pretty physically fit after coming from the military. You just never know.
And editing makes so much of a difference. I remember hearing Eric Sanchez say that you could have taken all the footage filmed of him and Jeremy or of him and Danelle and come up with 10 different portrayals...
I have always thought that WRP has about 20 "team profiles" that they keep a list of. When it comes time to cast a show, they try to get the best 11 out of those 20 categories.
One thing that I never see mentioned by people when they talk about casting is that Casting does have a budget. They only have so much time and money to spend on casting. It seems most of the critics seem to think that casting is some kind of open ended budget. I would think that a really good casting agent, whether an in house WRP agent or an outside agent would keep an eye open for people they come across in life that might make a great team for the race. Why would a casting agent only limit themselves to just people that sent in a application to WRP?
I would think the vetting process would whittle away the applicants that they would not use. I am sure that under the pressure of the race, there are teams that they wish they had not cast. Thats a crap shoot.......As Phils says.....you just never know till they start racing.
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Yeah budget is a serious issue with for the show. That limits the casting to usually just a few open calls in large cities.
And yes several teams from New York in first season saw the same casting ad.
And as for recruited teams, some times its just some one from casting seeing some one on the street that they think would be interesting other times they are done to the racers already having some visability.
I mean I don't really think of the Linz's as a recruited team, yet they are.
Generally I am fine with it unless its gets out of hand.
For example having the Globe Trotters and Maria & Tiffany seemed over kill to me. Last season Brent & Caite and Jet & Cord and Jordan & Jeff seemed like way to many people who have already had media exposure.
Adding to the model/actor you also have the Pageant person and some seasons are just filled with them. Again people who do train to present themselves well. And are photogenic.
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Some casting calls in the past have been sponsored by TV stations or radio stations and not had casting crew on site...so very low budget.
Lynne Spillman has said in the past that she is never 100% present when out with friends...she is always on the lookout for interesting people for TAR and Survivor.
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I would think that any professional casting agent that works for a reality show, would always be on the lookout.......just makes sense.
They have had 3 TAR casting calls in my area in the short time past. I went to all 3 to observe and they were all the same. The local CBS affiliate was there with a film crew that filmed the team video. They were all at local car dealerships. There were no people from WRP or CBS California. They all seemed more like a free advertizing gig for the car dealership. The dealership provided a large venue for the crowds and got free advertizing in return from the local CBS affiliate. I didnt really stick around to much, but I suspect the CBS film crew gave the team the video tape and it was up to the team to mail them to WRP.
When I was posting about the casting budet, I really was just talking about the budget for that Dept of WRP. If you think about it, it would cost more to get an east coast team than a west coast team. LA area teams could just drive up for the process. They would have to pay to fly in an east coast team. I would suspect that this make them look a lot harder at applicants from the East and result in a lot more teams on the race from SoCal. It is just cheaper to "hire" them for the show.
I didnt really notice the "people with previous media exposure" till TAR5 with Christi and Nicole. It was stated that the Twins in TAR3 were models, but didnt really get pushed that much, to me anyway. I am sure there were more in the early seasons TAR1-4, but I never really noticed it. TAR1-4 just seemed like more average people from pretty normal walks of life. I still like Steve and Dave from TAR4 and their "Amazing Walk". I guess maybe because they are close to my age and watching Eric and Jeremy run all the time just wears me out.
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Budget aside, I believe the problem of casting lies in boredom. I believe that Ms. Spillman is just plain old bored with TAR and would rather have her department make a phone call or look through a portfolio than wade through thousands of videos. And I also think that the producers are also bored and are ready to move on to greater things. That boredom has been shouting loud and clear for the past many seasons. Of course there are great episodes in each season, but on the whole TAR has become a rerun of has beens. And as we already know, with the semi-celebs in 17, the trend continues.
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Wow, what a sourpuss I seem to be becoming. My deepest apologies. My frustration with TAR's casting is showing, huh? But be that as it may, I will, of course continue to watch. TAR pulled me out of an abyss in 2001. I could never turn my back on it. I shall strive to be more positive. :<)
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Hey All~ Team G. here! (aka Bill B.)
No one was recruited that I know of for TAR1. Season one was early in the process of reality TV. They had about 5 thousand tapes sent in. Ours was one of the first. Guido making our tape was a stand out. Lynn Spillman says so in her appearance on our Guido episode of Dogs 101, that is still running in rotation on the Animal Planet channel.
Hope all is well out there with everyone....more race soon!
BB,JB & G
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Yay! And hello, nice to meet you Bill of my favorite team, team Guido! :hearts: :hearts:
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Thanks Bill!! :hearts:
Hugs and kisses to Joe and Guido!!
Gosh, the first season still stands out. Y'all were something special, especially not knowing what you were getting into!
So did most of you all see that ad? ???
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Thanks Bill and ditto what Peach said!!!
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Hi Bill,
Thanks for posting. I sure miss the "good old days" when unknowns were cast. That's how we got to meet you and Joe. You were both great, I enjoyed your season very much. How do you feel about all this recruiting and mactors? It seems like TAR should be advertising that only "beautiful people need apply" now. Or, "entertainment genre only need apply". Of course they throw in a few unknowns in each season now, but the trend is toward celebrityism. What is your take?
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All very good posts on the Mactor issue. Not a fan, but as said way back, if the team brings a new audience and this audience sticks with the show, then it's ok. My problem as Peach mentioned is the stunt casting or recruiting those who have never seen the show. If a Mactor is a fan and been the show for a long period of time, then fine, but not a team recruited out of a bar that is not familiar with TAR.
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All very good posts on the Mactor issue. Not a fan, but as said way back, if the team brings a new audience and this audience sticks with the show, then it's ok. My problem as Peach mentioned is the stunt casting or recruiting those who have never seen the show. If a Mactor is a fan and been the show for a long period of time, then fine, but not a team recruited out of a bar that is not familiar with TAR.
I agree with TARAsia Fan. I didn't mind Brain & Erica and the Globetrotters... what I don't like is a whiny team like Natalie & Pailin, a "I didn't sign up for this" Mika and teams that are totally incompetent and benefited from one non-e and one screw up Maria & Tiff....
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I have to admit that I am very fickle in this area. If I like the team, then I'm all for mactors and recruited teams. If I don't, then mactors and recruited teams suck. :meow:
And no, I can't figure out and don't want to figure out, why I like some teams and not others. :umn:
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If you hate mactors and recruited teams, a celebrity edition would be your worst nightmare. I hate to disagree with Phil, but I only see the potential for disaster...
http://hollywoodinsider.ew.com/2010/08/25/the-amazing-race-time-for-a-celebrity-edition/
The Amazing Race - Time For A Celebrity Edition?
by Lynette Rice
The Apprentice has made a franchise out of featuring (C-level) celebrities, so why can’t The Amazing Race? Host Phil Keoghan certainly sees a potential.
“I would love to have a celebrity version,” Keoghan told EW. “If every celebrity who has told me they liked the show signed up and was a part of it, that would be huge. I know Sarah Jessica Parker is a big fan of the show, and I heard Drew Barrymore likes the show, and Neil Patrick Harris likes the show. I just don’t know if they realize what [in store]. That would be the thing, whether they could cope. I don’t know, it would be fun.”
Keoghan says there have been talks about featuring a Hollywood edition but the realities of celebrity life make the possibility daunting. Though the show has hosted someone from Tinseltown before – actor-screenwriter-director Mike White (School of Rock) participated last year – its a far different situation when it involves busy actors. “The question that always comes up is would we be able to get them out of their schedule,” explains Keoghan. “They say they want to do it, but the reality is would their schedule allow for it, and would they really be able to put up with the schedule itself. It’s very different than anything else that’s shot, like a movie set. We sort of have to adhere to the rules of the world as opposed to creating our own rules on a set or in a studio. We are beholden to what happens in the real world. That makes it really tough.”
Season 17 of The Amazing Race kicks off Sept. 26. The seven-time Emmy winner will once again vie for the Outstanding Reality prize at this Sunday’s ceremony on NBC. – With reporting from Nicholas White
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UGH. If a celebrity wants to apply like Mike did...fine. A WHOLE edition of celebs would spell the end of TAR, for sure, IMO.
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I don't want a celebrity version of TAR! Here in Portugal we had some reality shows with celebrities (none like TAR, but still) and it was a disaster IMO. It just wasn't "natural". Celebrities always have "priviledges" (like on the celebrity edition of Big Brother one singer got to call her grown up son everyday) and I don't want to see that kind of things on TAR...
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As long as Celebrities include Charla and Mirna, Rob and Russell, Dustin and Kandice, and Omarosa (LOL, Reality-Show-contestants-turned-celebs) is there! :lol: :hearts: Kidding (but actually, I'm not. :lol: )
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No. Just no. Sorry, Phil, try again. Let's be more in-tune with what the avid fans want next time. :groan:
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I would agree to a 3-leg celeb race for charity but that's about it
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I wouldn't hate a celeb edition, but only if the chosen racers were actually fans of the show, like SJP.
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I might be biased, but doesn't it always seem that a celebrity edition of a reality show is the nail in the coffin for said show? IMO, a celebrity edition would not be a good sign for the future of TAR.
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Have the producers become completely out of touch, or is this meddling from CBS?
Either way, if a celebrity edition comes to fruition, the show is screwed.
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Have the producers become completely out of touch, or is this meddling from CBS?
Either way, if a celebrity edition comes to fruition, the show is screwed.
There is no telling. I imagine that those who created and run the show desire it to be as pure and "true to self" as possible, but they are always constrained by budget and what CBS wants. If CBS called down to the TAR people and said that they wanted a celebrity edition, then I imagine that the TAR people really couldn't object. CBS writes the checks. They get what they want.
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Phil commenting on all the celebrities wanting to be on TAR does NOT a celebrity edition make....
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Phil commenting on all the celebrities wanting to be on TAR does NOT a celebrity edition make....
Let's hope so!
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I quite like Celebrity Edition, but there are many pros and cons. It's too risky. I'd rather prefer an international TAR or a Reality-Stars TAR.
oops, getting off-topic!
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I love the idea of a celebrity version. As long as they have teams like Sarah Jessica Parker and Mathew Brodrick as a couple I would be fine. She has been such a fan of the show. I think Neil Patrick also has been a fan so it would be great to see him too.
I just want TAR to keep going and this might bring more fans to the show.
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It wasn't the death knell for The Apprentice. In fact, quite the opposite. It breathed new life into that show, for sure, and even got it a new season with real people.
I wouldn't mind a celebrity edition since Phil's right -- lots of celebrities do dream of going on the show. But yes, I agree with only picking celebrities who are fans.
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I just can't imagine "celebrities" getting down and dirty by and large for the long haul on TAR. Just picture Sarah Jessica Parker in one of the trains in India where people are all crapped in and hanging out the open sides and having her ass getting pinched.
Many of us already think often times the cast is treated to a few more luxuries then early seasons, I can only imagine how soft it would be a for a celebrity version.
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And a celebrity edition with paparazzi following the actors would not work. Unless you used a whole cast of Reality TV celebrities (excepting Kate Gosselin), an entire cast of actors should not be in the cards.
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an entire cast of actors should not be in the cards.
What Ken says.
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if I may share an opinion (not sure if anyone has said this before) TAR will be renewed if they get a high amount of viewers and bringing in Kevjumba, Miss Kentucky and other TV personnels could help attract their fans to watch the show, so im really happy about this because it could be good for TAR and it could help the show go for more seasons ;)
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The viewing audience might increase for the short term, but take BB team last season. The viewing audience increased, but when they were eliminated the audience decreased dramatically. Add on to this the disillusionment of the TAR base for all the recruiting and mactors and it is a lose, lose situation. We will have to watch the ratings to see how this all plays out.
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The viewing audience might increase for the short term, but take BB team last season. The viewing audience increased, but when they were eliminated the audience decreased dramatically. Add on to this the disillusionment of the TAR base for all the recruiting and mactors and it is a lose, lose situation. We will have to watch the ratings to see how this all plays out.
Actually that isn't accurate.
There are two legitimate ways of looking at it. 1. Ratings decreased right after they left, or the average ratings of the shows with them were higher then the average ratings when they were eliminated.
The first situation. The episode they got eliminated had a total audience of 11.987 million viewers and a 3.8 in the coveted adults 18-49.
The next episode the show's audience was 12.729 million viewers and a 3.9 in adults 18-49 (season highs in both viewers and adults 18-49).
So clearly that the first didn't happen.
The 2nd possibility.
The average rating of the episodes with Jeff & Jordan were 9.736 million viewers and a 3.05 in adults 18-49.
The average after they were eliminated 10.874 million viewers and a 3.2 in adults 18-49.
So they in both measures the show actually showed improvements after Jeff & Jordan were no longer part of the cast.
Now to be far the show had three sports overruns (which greatly increase teh shows ratings (3 highest performers of the season including the episode they got eliminated and the episode after they got eliminated), TAR also aired 2 Specials (what networks will label shows so they don't get counted as part of the official season, this is down occasionally when they know shows will have terrible ratings (for example against the Oscars).
Even removing the 3 artificial highs (1 before they are eliminated, and two after they are eliminated) and the 2 artificial lows (one before they are eliminated, one after they are eliminated) the averages come out to be:
Average with Jordan & Jeff 9.58 million viewers and a 2.98 in adults 18-49.
Average after Jordan & Jeff 10.505 million viewers and a 3.03 in adults 18-49.
So strictly off of ratings the evidence suggest that not only did Jeff & Jordan not help the ratings, its possible that they might have hurt the ratings.
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:bow:I bow to your wisdom, Ms. :jam:. I had read different numbers on the facebook, Amazing Race page postings. BTW, what website do you get your numbers from, so that I may be enlightened before I post? . :knuckles:
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I get my primary data from three main sources. pifeedback.com (which posts overnights, fast nationals, and final numbers), tvbythenumbers which does fast nationals as well as various press releases, dvr results, and posts duplicates of pifeedbacks final numbers., then sitsomsonline also provides final numbers.
Those three sources between them can get you data on all episodes back to the 2nd week of Season 10. And all are currently accessible.
Previous to that Marc Berman (who runs pifeedback's ratings site) also posts a daily column for media week. Previously a database was online that allowed you to look at past years data (it is no longer available). I managed to go through his full database before it was taken down (this had primarily Fast Nationals, but also some final numbers), and this provided numbers back to through most of season 5.
Episodes and years before that I went to hard copy going to the Los Angeles Times and looking through microfilm to get final numbers for all but two episodes of that TAR has. One I found from a magazine (but have not been able to confirm the number with another source, so I am leery of taking it as fact (its the opening episode of season 1), so much of the nations media was taken over by 9/11 that media reporting took a backseat.
Not being a facebook person I don't know what page the database on facebook is (I would love to see it). As for being able to find all the data on one place, well sorry but their currently isn't one.
http://forum.realityfanforum.com/index.php/topic,15505.0.html
This has most of the data I have on the first 12 seasons. And we have threads for ratings on the other seasons, but they are put together into a chart, just weekly postings based on the ratings as they come in. I would have updated the ratings archive, but I forgot how to post images to the thread. As I do have all the data saved and put together.
I think I will ask Peach how to post again and make the update the archive with the last three seasons.
pifeedback in addition to daily forums, have forums for many shows, including TAR and they do have for the last few seasons a ratings database. For the last year that data was taken (kind of surprisingly) from what is posted a sitcomsonline (as their viewer data is to decimal places and they are the only online source to post the adults 25-54 demo. The finals posted on their nightly forums at pifeedback goes to three decimal points.
One thing to remember is just looking at numbers really doesn't tell you a lot. You need to know what the competition is, what your lead in (as that also is a tremendous influence on what type of ratings you will get), and even what your lead out is (also influences just not as much).
Some examples. When Fox gets the overrun for football, it means most of the males viewing tv that night are going to be watching Fox. Are ratings should take a hit. With 60 minutes as are lead in we are getting the oldest audience in television as our lead in, we don't have a large overlap in viewers. But when football overruns during the Fall (and to a lesser degree Basketball during the Spring) 60 minutes numbers get a huge, huge lift (more then doubling their audience in adults 18-49, the only real number studios really care about) this means TAR has a much larger audience of younger adults that will watch. We get a huge push from those nights. And this last spring we saw better numbers in the last half hour then the first (which is actually a little unusual for us), this can be placed on the incredible (and baffling) performance of Undercover Boss (which also has a much larger younger audience then any show that has followed us since we moved to Sunday.
It's very easy to just look at the numbers of our show and try and find some internal reasons for the weekly changes. But usually (though not always) you can look at external forces and they cause much larger week to week changes.
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Wow! Ms. So much information, so little time :umn: I am having a brain freeze! Are you retired and have time to do all this research stuff or are you just miles above us mere mortals in the intelligence department? :colors. I am impressed!!!!!! I have not checked for the facebook info yet, but I believe the poster was just posting the Nielsen ratings from one week to another and the drop was dramatic. Of course, he could have been whistling Dixie. He has nothing on your scope of ratings. :wohoo: It will suffice that I believe your analysis without trying to decipher its maze. :umn:
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Mactor's bring the entertainment.
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Mactor's bring the entertainment.
So Say's the King!
Honestly there are many "Mactors' I like. I think some seasons just have to many of them.
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Mactor's bring the entertainment.
So Say's the King!
Honestly there are many "Mactors' I like. I think some seasons just have to many of them.
I could give a rats anatomy about what a racer's job, occupation, profession is. What I want to see is racers that want to enter a 21/22 day race around the world, that just happens to be filmed. What I don't want to see is racers that want to be filmed for 21/21 days, while racing around the world.
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Mactor's bring the entertainment.
So Say's the King!
Honestly there are many "Mactors' I like. I think some seasons just have to many of them.
I could give a rat's anatomy about what a racer's job, occupation, profession is. What I want to see are racers that want to enter a 21/22 day race around the world, that just happens to be filmed. What I don't want to see are racers that want to be filmed for 21/21 days, while racing around the world.
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Mactor's bring the entertainment.
So Say's the King!
Honestly there are many "Mactors' I like. I think some seasons just have to many of them.
I could give a rats anatomy about what a racer's job, occupation, profession is. What I want to see is racers that want to enter a 21/22 day race around the world, that just happens to be filmed. What I don't want to see is racers that want to be filmed for 21/21 days, while racing around the world.
AMEN!! :yess: And worth repeating! :lol:
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That was eloquently put, Dr. You put in one sentence what I have been harping about for years. TAR is supposed to be a race, yet for the past few years it has become a publicity relaunching for a very select clique. Half racers, half fakers. Enough already.