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Archive => RFF Archived Boards => The Amazing Race 14 => Topic started by: apskip on November 03, 2008, 12:45:27 PM

Title: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on November 03, 2008, 12:45:27 PM
This thread will be similar to threads of past races. It will capture timelines (the dates and critical logistical activities for the entire race), timetables (when trains, buses or other forms of transportation are), and flight information ( for trips from point A to point B with principal alternatives, times of departure and arrival, and flight numbers identified).
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on November 03, 2008, 12:55:54 PM
Borrowing from another thread, here is my post #159 in TAR14, 11/2/08 4:12:39 pm

It looks to me that we have SAN MXP (San Diego to Milan-Malpensa) for starting point and arrival airport. Here are some flight possiblities for leg 1 of AR14:

SAN ORD AA1438 0935 1535
ORD MXP AP021 1655 0835+1

SAN JFK AA160 0815 1620
JFK MXP AA198 1735 0755+1

SAN ATL DL12 0850 1601
ATL MXP DL74 1710 0830

My guess is that at least 2 of these were used. Taking these flights necessitates a very early start to AR14. It would have to be much earlier than on any Amazing Race I can remember.

Editor's Note: what I should have also said is that rumors for AR14 indicate that departure from LAX was expected, which gives teams more time that morning than is inferred above. An analysis of LAX MXP (Milan-Malpensa) and LAX ZRH (nonstop) and LAX FRA and FRA ZRH will follow.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on November 03, 2008, 01:56:57 PM
The only applicable flight in the right time frame from LAX is AF75 LAX CDG 1500 1030+1    connecting in Paris to AF9806 CDG MXP 1125 1305. Add 2 hours and the earliest possible arrival in Locarno would be around 3pm.

Here are the bus schedules in the same time frame:

Shuttle bus leaves airport  Arrival in Bellinzona at  Connecting train leaves  Arrival in Locarno  
12:30                                           14:20                              14:39                        14:58  
14:30                                           16:20                              16:39                        16:58  

From LAX to Milan-Linate different schedules apply:

TN (Air Tahiti Nui???) 022  LAX CDG  1145 0745+1, conecting with  XM5997  CDG LIN 0935+1 1110+1  or
NZ2  LAX LHR 1600  1050+1, connecting with   GJ9527  LHR LIN 1150+1 1455+1

From LAX to Zurich we have:
LX41 LAX ZRH  1920 1550+1

From LAX to Zurich via Frankfurt we have the interesting combination:
LH457  LAX FRA  1435 1025+1 connecting with LH3726   FRA ZRH  1200 1255
and
UA324  LAX IAH  0903 1659 connecting in Washington Dulles to UA 936  IAD ZRH  0609+1  0810+1

What I find most interesting is the fit LH457/LH3726 has with the observer comments about seeing 7 teams in Frankfurt Airport the morning of Saturday Nov. 1. I expect no other reason to go to Frankfurt except to connect to Zurich. There are 10 nonstop flights on Saturday between Frankfurt and Zurich, so if any are delayed there are alternatives.


The train schedule from Zurich to Bellinzona to Locarno indicates that 3 1/4 hours is required, considerably more than from Milan-Malpensa. Here is is:

Train leaves airport Change in  Connecting train leaves  Arrival in Locarno  
11:47  Zurich HB (main station)             12:09    
                                Arth-Goldau           12:52    
                                 Bellinzona             14:40                         15:06  
12:47  Zurich HB (main station)             13:09    
                                 Bellinzona             15:40                         16:06  
13:47  Zurich HB (main station)             14:09    
                              Arth-Goldau             14:52    
                                 Bellinzona             16:40                         17:07  
16:47   Zurich HB(main station)             17:09
                              Bellinzona                19:40                         19:06


It is my belief that AR14 teams used a minimum of 2 flight combinations to get to Locarno. One may be to Milan, another to Zurich directly, and a third to Zurich via Frankfurt.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: georgiapeach on November 03, 2008, 02:01:31 PM
Departure from LAX remains speculation...

Departure from San Diego was a hoax...

But thanks for all the connects! :yess:
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on November 04, 2008, 01:16:41 PM
There has been some discussion of CapeTown, South Africa as leg 2 or 3 of AR14. Well, I see this as easily possible from flights back out of Milan connecting in Frankfurt. I see this happening on Sunday 11/2 or Monday 11/3:

SA7597    MXP FRA  1820  1945
SA7576    FRA CPT   2250 1150+1

You can also go through Zurich to get to Frankfurt to get to CapeTown, but who would want to do that?

For a much earlier departure time and arrival through Heathrow, there is

BA577  MXP LHR  1355 1500
BA43    LHR CPT   1645 0615+1

And for the real early birds, here is one connecting through Amsterdam that I don't expect to be possible given that they have to find a train before 3am to reach it:

KL1618  MXP AMS  0620 0855
KL597    AMS CPT  0955 2230

There are other flight combinations, but these above are the basic choices that make sense for different departure times.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Chateau d If on November 05, 2008, 12:37:51 AM
First attempted by Neobie, we need to figure out where the Teams started the race (or at least what city they connected through  :res:)

Here's my refinement of the report that seven Teams were spotted in Frankfurt and flew to Zurich. 

The witness, Matt, had arrived in Frannkfurt on Lufthansa LH 469 from Portland on Saturday November 1st.  The plane was scheduled to land at 9:05 am but was actually there at 8:16 am (that flight often arrives early).  I'm assuming that  the seven Teams had also arrived from the US on their first leg of the race.

The flight that Matt and the seven Teams took to Zurich was probably Eurowiss SWU 1071 scheduled to take off at 10:15 am and arrive at 11:20 am in Zurich.  So to get closer to our Start City for the race I looked for all in-bound flights from the US that had been scheduled to arrive inside the window from 8:00 am to 9:15 am.  The lower-bound of that window is set by having them arrive with comfortable time to make the connection but not too early because there was a 9:10 am flight to Zurich.  And the upper-bound of the window gives the standard one hour connection time.

With that in mind it looks to me  like the Teams would have arrived on either

1)  LH 427 from PHL Philadelphia, arriving at 8:05 am
2) UA 952 from IAD Washington, arriving at 8:15am
3) UA 900 from SFO San Francisco, arriving at 8:45 am
4) LH 445 from ATL Atlanta, arriving at 9:00 am
5) LH 439 from Dallas, arriving at 9:05 am
6) LH 441 from Houston, arriving at 9:05 am
7) UA 940 from ORD Chicago, arriving at 9:15 am
ocho) CO 50 from EWR Newark, arriving at 9:15 am
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Mrs Shrek on November 05, 2008, 01:05:04 AM
The start city usually has 2 or 3 set flight options for the teams all departing within an hour or so of each other. This is quite easy to achieve with a South America first leg, but may be harder with a European first leg. Because of that some of these cities might be able to be ruled out if they can't meet that criteria. The alternative flight may not necessarily go thru Frankfurt, but would have to go thru one of the other major European hub airports with a good onward connection to Zurich.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: georgiapeach on November 05, 2008, 01:07:55 AM
Checking! :waves:
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Chateau d If on November 05, 2008, 01:35:53 AM
Here are the take off times for those flights:

1) LH 427 PHL to FRA 7:05 pm
2) UA 952 IAD to FRA 7:14 pm
3) UA 900 SFO to FRA 1:48 pm
4) LH 445 ATL to FRA 7:10 pm
5) LH 439 DFW to FRA 5:20 pm
6) LH 441 IAH to FRA 5:30 pm
7) UA 940 ORD to FRA 6:48 pm
ocho) CO 50 EWR to FRA 8:15 pm

Only the San francisco flight would be a direct flight to Frankfurt from Start City.  The others would be connections.  I'm just saying this because I believe the take offs from Start City always seem to be in the 1 to 3 pm time frame.  So the other seven cities would be connection cities between the Start City and Frankfurt.

We can attempt to rule some of them out by finding which ones would have single-connection routes from Start to Zurich. 

And of course those initial flights have to be UA or AA   ;)
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on November 05, 2008, 11:00:56 AM
Chateau,
You have done an interesting analysis. I have a few additions for nonstop flights to Frankfurt:

Detroit NW52     1710 0720+1
            UA9197  1810 0755+1
Philadelphia US5601/LH427  1805 0805+1
Miami   LH463    1605 0650+1

None of these is an American flight; one is a United flight. However, I can think of no law that says that the Amazing Race first leg is solely with UA or AA. That is a custom and tradition that is broken whenever it is convenient, most recently with COPA for AR11.

EDITOR's NOTE - I corrected to COPA from TACA above as a result of guidance from Chateau. Thanks, Chateau.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Chateau d If on November 05, 2008, 06:42:22 PM
Chateau,
You have done an interesting analysis. I have a few additions for nonstop flights to Frankfurt:

Detroit NW52     1710 0720+1
            UA9197  1810 0755+1
Philadelphia US5601/LH427  1805 0805+1
Miami   LH463    1605 0650+1

None of these is a United or American flight. However, I can think of no law that says that the Amazing Race first leg is solely with UA or AA. That is a custom and tradition that is broken whenever it is convenient, most recently with TACA for AR11.

Thanks apskip.  I suppose that I can widen my somewhat arbitrary 'window' to include a Frankfurt arrival of 7:55 am for your Detroit flight (aka LH 743 by codeshare).

Your 8:05 am from Philadelphia is already on the list. 

But I think the 6:50 am arrival from Miami is too early for consideration due to the 10:15 am departure to Zurich.  Had they arrived at 6:50 am then they would have used the 8:40 am (LH3722) or the 9:10 am (LX 1069) flights to Zurich.

TACA?  I think TAR11 used AA and Copa when they left Miami, so it's half consistent with the unwritten law.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: georgiapeach on November 05, 2008, 06:49:33 PM
I am working my way through the list guys--hopefully will have some info by next week. :waves:
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Chateau d If on November 05, 2008, 11:31:43 PM
I'd like to make the following really wacky prediction:   :neener:

The race starts in San Francisco on October 31st!

The teams are sent off with these flights:

Five teams on:
UA 88 leaving SFO at 1:03 pm, arriving EWR Newark at 9:33 pm
Swiss LX 19 leaving EWR at 10:50 pm, arriving in Zurich at 11:35 am

Seven teams on:
UA 900 leaving SFO at 1:48 pm and arriving in FRA Frankfurt at 8:45 am
SWU 1071 leaving FRA at 10:15 am and arriving in Zurich at 11:20 am
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: puddin on November 06, 2008, 01:22:52 AM
I like it Chateau  :jumpy:

12 teams?? why not!
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on November 06, 2008, 03:02:51 AM
Hmm... interesting, Chateau!

If the flight into Frankfurt departs the US in the early afternoon and arrives at around 8-9am the next day, it must have departed from the western half of the US. We didn't see the racers on the Portland flight, so the only possibilities (if it's direct from start city to Frankfurt) are Los Angeles, San Francisco and Seattle?

Summer Time is a huge headache... Could anyone help me out transposing the Nov 7 schedules one week back?

Quote
International carriers almost exclusively appear to change their US departure and arrival times by one hour during this period, as you might expect. So a flight that leaves London at say, 430p and arrives LAX at 730p would have arrived at 830p for last week only. US carriers, however, don’t seem to treat it the same way all the time.

Looking at American, for example, most flights do appear to change flight times in the US whether it be an arrival or departure. But the London to Chicago flights all change their London departure times in order to keep connections in the US. To make things even more confusing, the return flights from Chicago actually change their Chicago departure times. Look at JFK, however, and the London flights change both their US departure and arrival times. As you can imagine, arriving into the US an hour later means missed connections and longer waits for the next flight.

Delta deals with this by changing their non-US flight times. So, US connecting times remain intact. But this begs the question . . . how do they get Frankfurt to let them change times for a week? If anyone has more information on this, let me know in the comments section.

From The Cranky Flier (http://crankyflier.com/2007/11/05/how-daylight-saving-time-impacts-the-airlines/)

Trying to cover all bases with these possible pairings (I think this is all) on top of Chateau's San Francisco start, with the following assumptions (I am clueless about Summer Time, so I've allotted an 1h extra leeway for connections):

1. Zurich belongs in the first leg, and there are two double-segment flights from the start city.
2. Departures from the start city are between 10am and 3pm.
3. Arrival times in Zurich are within 3 hours of each other.

Starting in Los Angeles, connecting through Frankfurt, Paris, Chicago, New York or Newark
Paris is the only European option from Los Angeles I haven't outright eliminated; the transits may not work out, depending on how the Summer Time schedules work. All except Frankfurt involve an airline change.
Itinerary #1
AF75 from Los Angeles to Paris: 3.00pm to 10.30am (November 7 schedule)
LX635 from Paris to Zurich: 11.00am to 12.15pm
Itinerary #2
LH457 from Los Angeles to Frankfurt: 2.35pm to 10.25am (November 7 schedule)
LH3726/LX3605 from Frankfurt to Zurich: 12.00pm to 12.55pm
Itinerary #3
UA116 from Los Angeles to Chicago: 12.52pm to 6.55pm (other flights available on this route)
LX9 from Chicago to Zurich: 7.20pm to 11.00am (November 7 schedule)
Itinerary #4
AA40 from Los Angeles to New York: 11.05am to 7.35pm (other flights available on this route)
LX17 from New York to Zurich: 8.55pm to 10.55am (November 7 schedule)
Itinerary #5
CO90 from Los Angeles to Newark: 12.40pm to 8.59pm (other flights available on this route)
LX19 from Newark to Zurich: 10.50pm to 11.35am (October 31 schedule)


Starting in Seattle, connecting through Frankfurt, Paris, Amsterdam or Chicago
Paris and Frankfurt itineraries stick to one airline, making things simpler and following the standards of seasons past. The rest involve an airline change. There's a JetBlue flight through Boston, but I don't think they'd take that...
Itinerary #1
AF49 from Seattle to Paris: 1.55pm to 8.50am
AF5102 from Paris to Zurich: 9.55am to 11.25am (other flights available on this route)
Itinerary #2
LH491 from Seattle to Frankfurt: 2.55pm to 10.05am (November 7 schedule)
LH5052/LX1071 from Frankfurt to Zurich: 10.15am to 11.20pm or
LH3726/LX3605 from Frankfurt to Zurich: 12.00pm to 12.55pm
Itinerary #3
NW34 from Seattle to Amsterdam: 12.45pm to 7.40pm (November 7 schedule)
LX725 from Amsterdam to Zurich: 9.50am to 11.15am or
KL1957 from Amsterdam to Zurich: 10.00am to 11.35am (other flights available on this route)
Itinerary #4
AA1918 from Seattle to Chicago: 11.55am to 6.05pm (other flights available on this route)
LX9 from Chicago to Zurich: 7.20pm to 11.00am (November 7 schedule)


Starting in San Francisco, connecting through Frankfurt, Newark, Dublin, London, Boston, Chicago or New York
London and US connections involve an airline change. Dublin connection comes in a little late.
Itinerary #1 (Chateau's pick)
LH9053/UA900 from San Francisco to Frankfurt: 1.48pm to 8.45am (October 31 schedule)
LH5052/LX1071 from Frankfurt to Zurich: 10.15am to 11.20pm or
LH3726/LX3605 from Frankfurt to Zurich: 12.00pm to 12.55pm
Itinerary #2 (Chateau's pick)
UA88 from San Francisco to Newark: 1.03pm to 9.33pm (other flights available on this route)
LX19 from Newark to Zurich: 10.50pm to 11.35am (October 31 schedule)
Itinerary #3
EI146 from San Francisco to Dublin: 2.40pm to 8.40am (November 7 schedule)
EI344 from Dublin to Zurich: 12.30pm to 3.35pm or
LX401 from Dublin to Zurich: 11.15am to 2.25pm
Itinerary #4
UA954 from San Francisco to London: 12.31pm to 6.55am (November 7 schedule)
LX317 from London to Zurich: 8.50am to 11.35am or
BA712 from London to Zurich: 8.50am to 11.45am
Itinerary #5
UA176 from San Francisco to Boston: 11.44am to 8.19am (November 7 schedule)
LX53 from Boston to Zurich: 9.50pm to 11.10am
Itinerary #6
UA102 from San Francisco to Chicago: 11.47am to 6.00pm (other flights available on this route)
LX9 from Chicago to Zurich: 7.20pm to 11.00am (November 7 schedule)
Itinerary #7
AA16 from San Francisco to New York: 11.50am to 8.20am (other flights available on this route)
LX17 from New York to Zurich: 8.55pm to 10.55am (November 7 schedule)
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on November 06, 2008, 07:23:42 AM
I'd like to make the following really wacky prediction:   :neener:

The race starts in San Francisco on October 31st!

The teams are sent off with these flights:

Five teams on:
UA 88 leaving SFO at 1:03 pm, arriving EWR Newark at 9:33 pm
Swiss LX 19 leaving EWR at 10:50 pm, arriving in Zurich at 11:35 am

Seven teams on:
UA 900 leaving SFO at 1:48 pm and arriving in FRA Frankfurt at 8:45 am
SWU 1071 leaving FRA at 10:15 am and arriving in Zurich at 11:20 am

Chateau, A sage observer said yesterday that "3) UA 900 from SFO San Francisco, arriving at 8:45 am" and departing 1:48pm was one of the alternatives. Using the reasonable criteria of 1pm to 3pm departure (you window is too wide to fit historical evidence, Neobie), this was the only one of your possibilities that within 2 hours of that window. Why has that been abandoned for a later flight outide the departure widnow and also outside the arrival window? Also, what happened to the "must be in Frankfurt 8:00am to 9:15am" criteria? Why has that been abandoned?

You haven't convinced me that the correct flight wasn't UA900.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on November 06, 2008, 07:37:47 AM
Oh well. Using 12.30pm to 3pm departures narrows it down...

Starting in Los Angeles, connecting through Frankfurt, Paris, Chicago or Newark
Itinerary #1, feasible if Los Angeles departure time is fixed
AF75 from Los Angeles to Paris: 3.00pm to 10.30am (November 7 schedule)
LX635 from Paris to Zurich: 11.00am to 12.15pm
Itinerary #2
LH457 from Los Angeles to Frankfurt: 2.35pm to 10.25am (November 7 schedule)
LH3726/LX3605 from Frankfurt to Zurich: 12.00pm to 12.55pm
Itinerary #3, feasible if Zurich arrival time is fixed
UA116 from Los Angeles to Chicago: 12.52pm to 6.55pm (other flights available on this route)
LX9 from Chicago to Zurich: 7.20pm to 11.00am (November 7 schedule)
Itinerary #4
CO90 from Los Angeles to Newark: 12.40pm to 8.59pm (other flights available on this route)
LX19 from Newark to Zurich: 10.50pm to 11.35am (October 31 schedule)


Starting in Seattle, connecting through Frankfurt, Paris or Amsterdam
Itinerary #1
AF49 from Seattle to Paris: 1.55pm to 8.50am
AF5102 from Paris to Zurich: 9.55am to 11.25am (other flights available on this route)
Itinerary #2
LH491 from Seattle to Frankfurt: 2.55pm to 10.05am (November 7 schedule)
LH5052/LX1071 from Frankfurt to Zurich: 10.15am to 11.20pm (feasible if Seattle departure time is fixed) or
LH3726/LX3605 from Frankfurt to Zurich: 12.00pm to 12.55pm
Itinerary #3
NW34 from Seattle to Amsterdam: 12.45pm to 7.40pm (November 7 schedule)
LX725 from Amsterdam to Zurich: 9.50am to 11.15am or
KL1957 from Amsterdam to Zurich: 10.00am to 11.35am (other flights available on this route)


Starting in San Francisco, connecting through Frankfurt, Newark, or Dublin (not changing airlines arrives a little late)
Itinerary #1 (Chateau's pick)
LH9053/UA900 from San Francisco to Frankfurt: 1.48pm to 8.45am (October 31 schedule)
LH5052/LX1071 from Frankfurt to Zurich: 10.15am to 11.20pm or
LH3726/LX3605 from Frankfurt to Zurich: 12.00pm to 12.55pm
Itinerary #2 (Chateau's pick)
UA88 from San Francisco to Newark: 1.03pm to 9.33pm (other flights available on this route)
LX19 from Newark to Zurich: 10.50pm to 11.35am (October 31 schedule)
Itinerary #3
EI146 from San Francisco to Dublin: 2.40pm to 8.40am (November 7 schedule)
EI344 from Dublin to Zurich: 12.30pm to 3.35pm or
LX401 from Dublin to Zurich: 11.15am to 2.25pm
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Chateau d If on November 06, 2008, 11:21:18 AM
Wow!  that's a lot of work Neobie.  I thought I had over worked it!

I ruled out Seattle and LA early on due to the way Matty was able to walk right into a den of racers (7 teams?, probably not, but that is not too important) waiting for the flight to Zurich.  Matty's flight landed quite early and I figured he stumbled upon the entrenched racers shortly after 9:00 am.

I had noted the SFO to BOS to ZRH route also. Nevermind.  I was looking at flights using the wrong date.  Boston doesn't work afterall.  I think that it is as equally likely as SFO to EWR to ZRH.  The flight data I have for that route differs from yours

UA 824 leaving SFO at 1:10 pm, arriving in BOS at 9:42 pm
LX 53 leaving BOS at 10:50 pm, arriving in ZRH at 11:10 am

The one question I have is how will they make it look like the Teams need to go to two separate checkin counters at SFO?  Maybe they go to a code share counter?
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: puddin on November 07, 2008, 01:21:26 AM
USA to >>? to Switzerland to Bucharest to>> ? Turkey? or Greece? or Egypt? any ideas?
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: michael on November 07, 2008, 01:30:46 AM
USA to >>? to Switzerland to Bucharest to>> ? Turkey? or Greece? or Egypt? any ideas?

I would love if they go to Egypt! They haven't been there since TAR5!

Actually this will be the first race that started in Europe in a really long time. How does the continent pattern usually go? Would it be Europe --> Africa --> Asia --> South America --> USA?
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: puddin on November 07, 2008, 02:00:21 AM
TAR12 went to Ireland>Netherlands>Burkina>Lithuania>Croatia>Italy>India>Japan>Taiwan. IMO too much Europe but still the locations were great.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Dragoondaniel on November 07, 2008, 05:08:46 AM
USA to >>? to Switzerland to Bucharest to>> ? Turkey? or Greece? or Egypt? any ideas?

I would love if they go to Egypt! They haven't been there since TAR5!

Actually this will be the first race that started in Europe in a really long time. How does the continent pattern usually go? Would it be Europe --> Africa --> Asia --> South America --> USA?


Usually in a tradition Europe-1st route, it's almost ALWAYS
North America -> Europe -> Africa -> Asia -> USA (TAR3, 6 and 12)

there has NEVER been a Race Course that heads to Europe first and then covers MORE than 4 continents.

maybe this time they'll do a North America -> Europe -> Africa -> Oceania -> Asia -> USA route? 5 continents seem pretty reasonable and this route pattern has never been used before.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: georgiapeach on November 07, 2008, 07:04:12 AM
Just as long as the last 4 legs aren't in South America! :lol3:

Remember it is winter in Europe, summer in the Southern Hemisphere, so I expext we'll see warmer areas...

I like your route dragoon!
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on November 08, 2008, 08:12:43 AM
Here are the connections needed to go from Locarno to Salzburg using a combination of train, bus and air:

Train 0:23 after every hour dep. Locarno, 0:48 arrive Bellinzona;  0:39 0:58; 0:53 1:18;

Bus Schedules for Ballinzona to Milan - Malpensa airport -
Bellinzona FFS 0550 0750 0950 1150 1350 1550 1750 Bellinzona FFS
Lugano FFS     0630 0830 1030 1230 1430 1630 1830 Lugano FFS
Chiasso FFS    0650 0850 1050 1250 1450 1650 1850 Chiasso FFS
Malpensa 2     0730 0930 1130 1330 1530 1730 1930 Malpensa 2
Malpensa 1     0740 0940 1140 1340 1540 1740 1940 Malpensa 1

OS518 / OS917 0740 0920 MXP VIE connecting to 1015 1115 VIE SZG

LH3881 / OS264 0950 1110 MXP FRA connecting to 1235 1335 FRA SZG

LH3887 / OS266 1415 1540 MXP FRA connecting to 1635 1740 FRA SZG

LH3889 / OS270 1820 1845 MXP FRA connecting to 2045 2150 FRA SZG

Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on November 08, 2008, 08:26:19 AM
Here are flights for leg 3 transportation from Salzburg to Bucharest:

SZG VIE  OS926  0600 0640 connecting to  OS789  0715 1005

SZG VIE  OS920  0825 0935  connecting to  RO342  1045 1315

SZG VIE  OS918  1145 1245  connecting to  OS791  1335 1620

SZG VIE  OS924  1825 1920 connecting to  RO344  1955 2235

Rail alternatives would take about 3 times as long and a bus trip would be interminable.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on November 08, 2008, 09:01:10 AM
Don't forget the racer sighting on LH3424! That flight departs from Munich at 9.30pm and arrives in Bucharest at 12.25am. There are no air connections between Munich and Salzburg; teams travelled overland to get to Munich. Which is strange - teams should be released morning of the 4th and should have had no problems getting any of Apskip's flights from Salzburg through Vienna to Bucharest. Did a clue send them away to Germany, or was there a weirdly-extended Pit Stop putting teams out of reach of even the last flight (at 6.25pm) from Salzburg?

There's something to occupy teams from the morning till after 5pm of the 4th of November (when there are better flights from both Salzburg and Munich), be it extra tasks or an extended Pit Stop. It winds up with at least some teams travelling overland to Munich.

Travelling through Frankfurt is possible, though on schedule LH3416 (8.45pm departing Frankfurt, 12.05am arriving Bucharest) it saves teams only twenty minutes. From Salzburg, teams could catch OS269 (6.30pm to 7.50pm) to Frankfurt; from Munich, it's LH981 (5.55pm to 7.05pm). This is only if teams miss the respective flights to Vienna for Apskip's flight: OS924 (6.25pm to 7.20pm) for Salzburg and LH6374 (5.15pm to 6.25pm) for Munich.

Another option for teams from Munich is through Brussels: SN2646 leaves Munich at 6.20pm, arrives Brussels 7.50pm. Change for RO374, departing Brussels 8.40pm, arriving Bucharest 12.25am. Once again, this is if teams miss LH981 from Munich to Vienna at 5.55pm. It saves absolutely no time from a direct flight, but maybe the seats were fully booked? Romaniafan's other teams must have got another flight somehow!

I've also looked at OK304 from Prague (arriving Bucharest 12.10am) and KL1361 from Amsterdam (12.30am), but Apskip's options through Vienna always seem the better option, be it from Munich or Salzburg. What could Romaniafan's other teams have come in on? Did TPTB ban Tarom?



I have a feeling that Switzerland to Salzburg is done by ground transportation... Apskip's train-bus-plane itinerary takes around 7 hours. Travelling by train from Locarno to Salzburg takes around 9. Probably worth TPTB to save that bit of money?
 


Random trivia: TAR has connected through Frankfurt for 10 out of the first 13 seasons, and it looks like the pattern's continuing into TAR14. We should so station a permanent spoiler stake-out there!
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Chateau d If on November 08, 2008, 11:02:59 AM
We know that they arrived at the Pit Stop in a fleet of Mercedes.  So I suspect they will start the 3rd leg in those cars.  The drive time from Salzburg to Munich is 1.5 hours while driving to Vienna takes 3 hours.

Having worked it backwards from Bucharest I would say that the lead teams opt for driving to Vienna:

Lead Teams Pit Stop release at (say) 3:00 pm
Drive 3 hours to Vienna
Fly RO 344 leaving at 7:55 pm and arriving at 10:35 pm in Bucharest

Trailing Teams Pit Stop release two hours later at 5:00 pm
Drive 1.5 hours to Munich
Fly LH 3424 leaving at 9:30 pm and arriving at 12:25 am

One thing that would help sort this out would be to ask Romaniafan's friend how certain they were that the two teams they saw were the only ones on  board.

100% sure it's another buggared Pit Stop time  :lol:

I should add that apskip's SZG VIE  OS924  1825 1920 connecting to  RO344  1955 2235  may have been a bust due to having too tight of a connection (35 minutes  :ascared) or just not having enough seats.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Chateau d If on November 08, 2008, 12:20:19 PM
I'm a little uncomfortable with driving to two different airports for car drop off so I looked harder at flights out of Salzburg.

Let say they leave from the Salzberg Pit Stop as early as 1 pm

They can take VO 265 leaving at 2:25 pm and arriving at 3:40 pm in Frankfurt or
They can take VO 269 leaving at 6:30 pm and arriving at 7:50 pm in Frankfurt
Then LH 3416 leaving FRA at 8:50 pm and arriving at 12:10 am in Bucharest

To get the known Munich flight to Bucharest

They can take VO 265 leaving at 2:25 pm and arriving at 3:40 pm in Frankfurt
Then LH 978 leaving FRA at 5:20 pm and arriving at 6:15 pm in Munich
Then LH 3424 leaving MUC at 9:30 pm and arriving at 12:25 am in Bucharest
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on November 08, 2008, 06:58:15 PM
Let me start with some analysis of the above posts by Chateau and by Neobie. Given the sighting of the German-licensed vehicles, even though Salzburg is right on the border of Germany I doubt that those vehicles were picked up anywhere but Munich airport. The driving mileage to Salzburg from Munich airport (not Munich, which is about 15 miles less) is 85 miles. That means that Chateau's estimate of 1.5 hours will be closer to the schedule of the Lufthansa bus which goes between Munich airport and Salzburg airport, which is 2.5 hours.

Given the cars, flight into Munich from Zurich or Milan-Malpensa is the most likely alternative.

Flights Zurich to Munich
LX1100/LH5063 0710 0815
LX3616/LH3739 0845 0945
LX3618/LH3741 0930 1030
LX1104/LH5065 1215 1310
LX3620/LH3743 1310 1410
LX1108/LH5067 1535 1630
LX3622/LH3745 1735 1835
LX1110/LH5069 1905 2000
LX3624/LH2749 1950 2050
LX3626/LH3751 2050 2150

Flights from Milan-Malpensa to Munich
EN3911/LH3911 0710 0820
EN3897/LH3897 0850 1005
EN3899/LH3899 1115 1230
EN3901/LH3901 1300 1415
EN3933/LH3933 1505 1635
EN3905/LH3905 1705 1820
EN3907/LH3907 1920 2030
EN3909 LH3909 2100 2215

Also, given the cars and the flight schedule from Munich, the route from Salzburg to Bucharest is likely to be driving back to get  LH3424 MUC OTP 2120 0025+1. Another possibility is to fly or drive to Vienna airport to connect with the flight VIE BUD connecting with BUD OTP but this arrives at 0125, well after the time frame of the sightings. Frankfurt, Amsterdam, and Brussels don't make much sense as origination points to get to Bucharest. Prague is an outside possiblity, with OK804 2125 0015+1. The rail schedules from Salzburg to Prague are dep.0908 arr.1653 or dep.1134 to arr.1853.




Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Chateau d If on November 09, 2008, 12:44:03 AM
Quote
Given the cars, flight into Munich from Zurich or Milan-Malpensa is the most likely alternative.

Apskip, I'm fully confused !  Your 2.5 hour Lufthansa bus look like the best option of them all!  I can see them taking that from Salzburg to Munich and catching the known flight to Bucharest at 9:30 pm.  They would not have to be released at 1 pm to do that.  That bus allows for a later release time.  When does it run?
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on November 09, 2008, 12:49:38 PM
Chateau, I can't leave you confused. The time by car is maybe 90 minutes and that is to a flexible arrival point in Salzburg if a team has the navigational skills. The time by bus is an estimated hour longer and it goes to the Salzburg airport, requiring more time to get to a useful place.

The information on the bus service is:
Lufthansa Airport Shuttle Service - a special alternative
In cooperation with our partner the Salzburger Mietwagen Service (for Innsbruck our partner Four Seasons) the comfortable 8-seater busses travelling to Munich Airport. Reservations including your requested pick-up time are guarantied up to 48 hours prior to departure.

That means it is a flexible departure time, just-call-for-pickup service.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Chateau d If on November 09, 2008, 01:16:13 PM
So the Lufthansa bus from Salzburg to Munich is the sure winner for explaining all the evidence we have.

Teams drive their Mercedes from Pit Stop to Salzburg (Mozart) airport arriving at say 5:00 pm
Some teams take the Lufthansa bus to Munich, arriving at say 8:30 pm
There they take LH 3424 leaving MUC at 9:30 pm and arriving at 12:25 am in Bucharest (this is the known flight)

Some teams fly out from Salzburg
They take VO 269 leaving at 6:30 pm and arriving at 7:50 pm in Frankfurt
Then LH 3416 leaving FRA at 8:50 pm and arriving at 12:10 am in Bucharest

That bus really puts it all together.  I'm so glad you found it.  It even satisfies the comment heard that other people in their group were on an earlier flight (12:10 vs 12:25 am arrival in Bucharest).
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Mrs Shrek on November 09, 2008, 01:23:33 PM
So the Lufthansa bus from Salzburg to Munich is the sure winner for explaining all the evidence we have.

Teams drive their Mercedes from Pit Stop to Salzburg (Mozart) airport arriving at say 5:00 pm
Some teams take the Lufthansa bus to Munich, arriving at say 8:30 pm
There they take LH 3424 leaving MUC at 9:30 pm and arriving at 12:25 am in Bucharest (this is the known flight)

Some teams fly out from Salzburg
They take VO 269 leaving at 6:30 pm and arriving at 7:50 pm in Frankfurt
Then LH 3416 leaving FRA at 8:50 pm and arriving at 12:10 am in Bucharest

That bus really puts it all together.  I'm so glad you found it.  It even satisfies the comment heard that other people in their group were on an earlier flight (12:10 vs 12:25 am arrival in Bucharest).


Are we sure the teams use their vehicles after the pitstop? The blogger from Salzburg took a photo of all the cars the morning after teams arrived at the pitstop (about 6:30am), and it seems like all the cars were still there :duno:
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Chateau d If on November 09, 2008, 01:43:36 PM
I forgot to mention that in order for flight analysis we have assembled to be valid the Pit Stop had to have been extended.  If it was extended and they drive the cars, then the cars would still be there at 6:30 am.

So if it was not extended then we have to find a different flight plan.

But, I can't come up with anything that works with Teams being released before noon.   :duno:
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Mrs Shrek on November 09, 2008, 06:09:46 PM
Thanks for clarifying that Chateau. I hadn't reread back far enough and had forgotten that a skewed pitstop departure was speculated :tup:
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: georgiapeach on November 09, 2008, 10:39:10 PM
I forgot to mention that in order for flight analysis we have assembled to be valid the Pit Stop had to have been extended.  If it was extended and they drive the cars, then the cars would still be there at 6:30 am.

So if it was not extended then we have to find a different flight plan.

But, I can't come up with anything that works with Teams being released before noon.   :duno:

Maybe they don't use the cars anymore??  :duno:
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Chateau d If on November 09, 2008, 11:30:39 PM
Annnd that's another assumption I had to make.   :lol:
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Mrs Shrek on November 10, 2008, 01:00:25 AM
If there were no assumptions left to make, it would take all the fun out of speculating :lol:
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on November 15, 2008, 09:15:54 PM
Here are all the Sunday morning Nov. 16 flights Bangkok to Phuket:

TG203 0740 0850
TG201 0750 0910
PG271 0810 0930
TG209 1025 1145

there are also 7 additional nonstop flights from 11am to 11pm.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on November 16, 2008, 04:37:45 PM
From Interlaken to Salzburg, train is a potential way to go. The early morning Tuesday(as in Nov.4) schedules are:

dep. Interlaken West 0605 transfer trains in Spiez, Romanschorn, 7 min. walk to ship, ship to Frederichshafen ship terminal, 5 min. walk to Hafen station, 2 min. train to Frederichshafen station, Ulm, then arr. Salzburg 1454 after a 8 hour 53 minute trip
dep. Interlaken West 0731 transfer trains in Spiez, Bern, Zurich arr. Salzburg 1529 after a 8 hour 0 minute trip

Based on the above, it seems more likely that teams flew to Salzburg on Nov. 4. In order to do that the optimal route is to take a train from Interlaken to Bern(somtimes changing first in Spiez) and then change for Bern to Zurich. The trains that fit are:

First train is dep. Interlaken West 522 transfer at Bern, arr. Zurich HB 0728, transfer there to Zurich Airport dep. HB 0746 arr. Airport 0747,  a difficult 23 minute connection to make the first flight below from Zurich airport
Next is dep. Interlaken West 1031 transfer at Bern, arr. Zurich HB 1228 dep.HB 1237 arr. Airport 1246 .
Last is dep. Interlaken West 1729 transfer at Spiez and Bern, arr. Zurich HB 1928, dep. HB 1937 arr. Airport 1946.

At Zurich there are  several nonstop flights to Salzburg, each with a connection from one of the train trips above:

C91202/LX4290  0810 0915  ZRH SGZ
C91204/Lx4292  1335 1440  ZRH SGZ
C91208/LX4294  2040 2145  ZRH SGZ
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on November 16, 2008, 05:23:44 PM
With sightings or reports for 4 AR14 locations, I am starting a Timeline which will be filled in with tranportation information when I have time to transfer that in. Here is the tentative first AR14 Timeline:

Oct. 31 leg 1 depart U.S. for Locarno, Switzerland via Frankfurt and Zurich or via Milan.
Nov. 1 arrive mid-morning in Europe and reach Locarno sometime in the afternoon; then tasks; this might be a TBC to allow known timing of next leg, but probably isn't
Nov. 2 leg 2 Locarno to Domodossola to Spiez to Interlaken by train; then tasks in Interlaken
Nov. 3 leg 3 Interlaken probably by rail to Zurich, then plane to Salzburg; arrival possibilities mid-morning, mid-afternoon, and late evening
Nov. 4 tasks in Salzburg
Nov. 5 leg 4 depart Salzburg for Bucharest, with several late-night flight options
Nov. 6 arrival in Bucahrest after midnight; transfer to train to get to Brasov
Nov. 7 tasks in Brasov
Nov. 8 leg 5 leave Transylvania for unknown location #1
Nov. 10 leg 6 unknown location #2
Nov. 12 leg 7 unknown location #3
Nov. 14 leg 8 leave unknown location #3 to arrive Bangkok the next morning
Nov. 15 fly Bangkok to Phuket apparently on TG203 0740 0850, then tasks in Phuket area
Nov. 16 leg 9 go from Phuket to unknown location #4
Nov. 18 leg 10 go from unknown location #5
Nov. 20 fly to U.S. for Finish Line in Hawaii or the mainland
Nov. 21 Finish Line, location unknown

There are probably two 36 hour extended pitstops incorporated above but I haven't a clue as to which leg at this time.

EDITOR's NOTE - I adjusted the departure for Bangkok information by one day to Nov. 15 to better fit what we have learned. That has a one day domino effect for the rest of the race.

Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: puddin on November 16, 2008, 05:53:35 PM
Very nice apskip!
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on November 16, 2008, 06:50:00 PM
Nice Apskip; but Leg One should probably encompass Interlaken as well. I'm pretty sure they'd do the stay-overnight-and-wait-for-your-selected-departure-time thing again!
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on November 16, 2008, 09:50:52 PM
Neobie, I don't see it that way. If teams wanted to go to Interlaken, they would have gone directly (via Zurich) and never have been close to Locarno, so Locarno has to be a pitstop or TBC point. Interlaken by that logic has to be leg 2, not part of leg 1.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on November 24, 2008, 08:15:52 AM
AR14 Timeline(revised 11/26):

Oct. 31 leg 1 depart U.S. for Locarno, Switzerland via Frankfurt and Zurich or via Milan.
Nov. 1 arrive mid-morning in Europe and reach Locarno sometime in the afternoon; then tasks; this might be a TBC to allow known timing of next leg, but probably isn't
Nov. 2 leg 2 Locarno to Domodossola to Spiez to Interlaken by train; then tasks in Interlaken
Nov. 3 leg 3 Interlaken probably by rail to Zurich, then plane to Salzburg; arrival possibilities mid-morning, mid-afternoon, and late evening
Nov. 4 tasks in Salzburg
Nov. 5 leg 4 depart Salzburg for Bucharest, with several late-night flight options
Nov. 6 arrival in Bucharest after midnight; transfer to train to get to Brasov
Nov. 7 tasks in Brasov
Nov. 8 leg 5 leave Transylvania for unknown location #1
Nov. 10 leg 6 unknown location #2
Nov. 12 leg 7 unknown location #3
Nov. 14 leg 8 leave unknown location #3 to arrive Bangkok the next morning
Nov. 15 fly Bangkok to Phuket apparently on TG203 0740 0850, then tasks in Phuket area
Nov. 16 leg 9 fly from Phuket to ?
Nov. 18 leg 10 fly from ? to Guilin
Nov. 20 leg 11 Guilin to Beijing, then tasks in Beijing and start pitstop
Nov. 22 leg 12 return from Beijing to U.S. for Finish Line in Hawaii via Tokyo
                        Finish Line, which Hawaiian island not known yet although I guess Oahu for convenience

Note: this is a 23 day race.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on November 24, 2008, 08:46:10 AM
Flight information for leg 9(Phuket to Shanghai) is:

HKT ICN  OZ748  0200 0945 connecting with ICN PVG  OZ363  1050 1155

HKT BKK  TG226  0720 0850 connecting with BKK PVG  TG664   1035 1550

HKT HKG  UO704 1220 1635 connecting with HKG PVG FM508   1735 2015

HKT KLL   AK877  2115 2330 connecting with KLL PVG MH386    0140+1 0640+1

Flight information for leg 10(Shanghai to Guilin) is:

PVG KWL  MU5381 1815 2045

PVG CKG  FM9545  0800 1045 connecting with  MF8404  CKG KWL  1145 1250

PVG WUH  MU2512  1120 1300 connecting with CZ6288  WUH KWL 1455 1605

PVG CKG  FM9941  1530 1920  connecting with  ZH9133  CKG KWL  1820 1920


Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on November 24, 2008, 09:35:59 AM
Based on what I have read, I think Tacoma WA is the site of the AR14 finale. With teams originating the last leg from Guilin China their flight combinations to Seattle/Tacoma airport is likely to be:
 
OZ326  KWL ICN 2350 0400+1
DL3520  ICN SEA  1105+1 0645+1
or
OZ326  KWL ICN  2350  0400 +1
JL950  ICN NRT  0930+1 1150+1
NW008  NRT SEA  1505+1 0645 +1

This is a total flying time of 22 hours 55 minutes but the only reasonable combination that lands in Seattle early morning as is the tradition of Amazing Race finales. Also note that the International Date Line gives back 24 hours when crossed, so that flight times of about 23 hours translates into an apparent time difference of only 7 hours since there is a 16 hour time zone differential.
 



Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: georgiapeach on November 24, 2008, 09:39:06 AM
apskip, I love the Timeline, it is so handy to keep track of this as we go and this is good.

BUT, I really get confused when speculation is included as fact.

Would it perhaps be possible to color code the locations and perhaps the dates also so we can keep what we KNOW (photo, blog, or other reliable evidence) separate from what is SPEC?

For instance, Shanghai is clearly spec, as people running in a subway do not mean TAR without further proof.

Guilin on the other hand, seems quite reliable even without photos at this point.

And I believe puddin has shown that the Tacoma filming was for a Toyoto commercial, so that remains spec of course. Seattle also remains spec at this point, but may be more likely.

I think that would help keep your Timeline completely reliable.. Just my opinion, of course!

Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on November 26, 2008, 10:47:52 AM
The news discovered by Peach about Beijing and Hawaii being legs and Tokyo a connection point has motivated me to look at the flight possibilities. Here they are for legs 11 and 12 of AR14:

leg 11 Nov. 20 Guilin to Beijing(KWL to PEK):
CZ3281 0900 1125
CA6312 1145 1435
CZ3287 1710 1950
CA1226 2105 0015

leg 12 Nov. 22 Note this is also the finish day but crossing the International Date Line resets the calendar by one day.
PEK NRT on Air China has several choices:

CA6651/NH956 0845 1305
CA925               0930 1350
CA167               1350 1750
there are two more later but they don't connect with flights for Honolulu

Continuing on from Tokyo-Narita to Honolulu (NRT to HNL), there are 9 choices with departures between 645pm and 10pm. With the 6 hours 45 minute flying team and 5 hour time difference, these flights arrive HNL 0630 to 0950. The most logical choice to me would be UA880 NRT HNL 1925 0710+1.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on November 26, 2008, 11:21:49 AM
I am now going to start adding in the flight or rail information to each leg:

AR14 Timeline(revised 11/26):

Oct. 31 leg 1 depart U.S. for Locarno, Switzerland via Frankfurt and Zurich or via Milan:
The only applicable flight in the right time frame from the U.S. is UA990 SFO FRA 1348 0830

A different route goes LAX to Milan-Malpensa(MXP) as follows: TN022 1145 0845+1 connecting with AF1214 0945+1 1145+1

Here are the bus schedules in the same time frame:
Shuttle bus leaves airport  Arrival in Bellinzona at  Connecting train leaves  Arrival in Locarno 
12:30                                           14:20                              14:39                        14:58 
14:30                                           16:20                              16:39                        16:58 

From LAX to Milan-Linate a similar schedule applies:
TN (Air Tahiti Nui) 022  LAX CDG  1145 0845+1, conecting with  XM5997  CDG LIN 0935+1 1110+1

From LAX to Zurich via Frankfurt we have the interesting combination:
LH457  LAX FRA  1435 1025+1 connecting with LH3726   FRA ZRH  1200 1255

What I find most interesting is the fit LH457/LH3726 has with the observer comments about seeing 7 teams in Frankfurt Airport the morning of Saturday Nov. 1. I expect no other reason to go to Frankfurt except to connect to Zurich. There are 10 nonstop flights on Saturday between Frankfurt and Zurich, so if any are delayed there are alternatives.

The train schedule from Zurich to Bellinzona to Locarno indicates that 3 1/4 hours is required. Here is is:

Train leaves airport Change in  Connecting train leaves  Arrival in Locarno 
11:47  Zurich HB (main station)             12:09     
                                Arth-Goldau           12:52     
                                 Bellinzona             14:40                         15:06 
12:47  Zurich HB (main station)             13:09     
                                 Bellinzona             15:40                         16:06 
13:47  Zurich HB (main station)             14:09     
                              Arth-Goldau             14:52     
                                 Bellinzona             16:40                         17:07 
16:47   Zurich HB(main station)             17:09
                              Bellinzona                19:40                         19:06


It is my belief that AR14 teams used a minimum of 2 flight combinations to get to Locarno. One may be to Milan, another to Zurich directly, and a third to Zurich via Frankfurt.

Nov. 1 arrive mid-morning in Europe and reach Locarno sometime in the afternoon; then tasks; this might be a TBC to allow known timing of next leg, but probably isn't
Nov. 2 leg 2 Locarno to Domodossola to Spiez to Interlaken by train; then tasks in Interlaken
dep. Locarno 1047 arr. Domodossola 1235
dep. Domodossola 1248 arr. Spiez 1353
dep. Spiez 1425 arr. Interlaken West 1454 or dep. Spiez 1432 arr. Interlaken West 1451
total trip is 4 hours train

Nov. 3 leg 3 Interlaken probably by rail to Zurich, then plane to Salzburg; arrival possibilities mid-morning, mid-afternoon, and late evening
From Interlaken to Salzburg, the early morning Tuesday(as in Nov.4) train schedules are:

dep. Interlaken West 0605 transfer trains in Spiez, Romanschorn, 7 min. walk to ship, ship to Frederichshafen ship terminal, 5 min. walk to Hafen station, 2 min. train to Frederichshafen station, Ulm, then arr. Salzburg 1454 after a 8 hour 53 minute trip OR
dep. Interlaken West 0731 transfer trains in Spiez, Bern, Zurich arr. Salzburg 1529 after a 8 hour 0 minute trip

Based on the above, it seems more likely that teams flew to Salzburg on Nov. 4. In order to do that the optimal route is to take a train from Interlaken to Bern(somtimes changing first in Spiez) and then change for Bern to Zurich. The trains that fit are:

First train is dep. Interlaken West 522 transfer at Bern, arr. Zurich HB 0728, transfer there to Zurich Airport dep. HB 0746 arr. Airport 0747,  a difficult 23 minute connection to make the first flight below from Zurich airport
Next is dep. Interlaken West 1031 transfer at Bern, arr. Zurich HB 1228 dep.HB 1237 arr. Airport 1246 .
Last is dep. Interlaken West 1729 transfer at Spiez and Bern, arr. Zurich HB 1928, dep. HB 1937 arr. Airport 1946.

At Zurich there are  several nonstop flights to Salzburg, each with a connection from one of the train trips above:

C91202/LX4290  0810 0915  ZRH SGZ
C91204/Lx4292  1335 1440  ZRH SGZ
C91208/LX4294  2040 2145  ZRH SGZ

Nov. 4 tasks in Salzburg
Nov. 5 leg 4 depart Salzburg for Bucharest, with several late-night flight options:
through Munich drive back form Salzburg early evening, then LH3424 2130 0025 MUC OTP
through Frankfurt OS269 1830 1950 SGZ FRA connecting to LH3416 2030 0005 FRA OTP
Nov. 6 arrival in Bucharest after midnight; transfer to train to get to Brasov
morning train departures: Bucharest Nord 2358 arr. Brasov 0246  or  dep. 0630 0922  or  dep. 0730 1019  or  dep. 0616 1051(note: nobody would want this) or  0830 1124  or  0942 1254  or  1130 1404
Nov. 7 tasks in Brasov
Nov. 8 leg 5 leave Transylvania for unknown location #1
Nov. 10 leg 6 unknown location #2
Nov. 12 leg 7 unknown location #3
Nov. 14 leg 8 leave unknown location #3 to arrive Bangkok the next morning
Nov. 15 fly Bangkok to Phuket apparently on TG203 0740 0850, then tasks in Phuket area
Nov. 16 leg 9 fly from Phuket to ?
Nov. 18 leg 10 fly from ? to Guilin
Nov. 20 leg 11 Guilin to Beijing flight choices:
CZ3281 0900 1125
CA6312 1145 1435
CZ3287 1710 1950
CA1226 2105 0015

then tasks in Beijing and start pitstop

Nov. 22 leg 12 return from Beijing to U.S. for Finish Line in Hawaii via Tokyo
PEK NRT on Air China has several choices:
CA6651/NH956 0845 1305
CA925               0930 1350
CA167               1350 1750

Continuing on from Tokyo-Narita to Honolulu (NRT to HNL), there are 9 choices with departures between 645pm and 10pm. With the 6 hours 45 minute flying team and 5 hour time difference, these flights arrive HNL 0630 to 0950. The most logical choice to me would be UA880 NRT HNL 1925 0710+1. All these are same day due to crossing the International Date Line.

                        Finish Line on which Hawaiian island not known yet although I guess Oahu now for convenience

Note: this is a 23 day race.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on December 03, 2008, 10:15:04 AM
There have been questions raised by the FutonCritic (usually an accurate source) citing a 11 episode AR14 vs. the 12 episodes that I have been showing. It is now apparent that it was the Futon Critic who was wrong. AR14 is a 12 episode race.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on December 28, 2008, 10:43:12 PM
Have looked at various flights from Phuket to Guilin, but you guys could probably turn up more! With teams still racing at 4pm on the 15th of November, I don't think they can make the 2am flight through Incheon. These are using Sunday schedules, corresponding to the 16th of November:

Phuket to Hong Kong
UO6718   1135-1525 (2h layover criteria)
UO704   1205-1555 (1h layover criteria)
Hong Kong to Guilin
KA700   1727-1735

Phuket to Bangkok
FD3022   1250-1405 (2h layover criteria)
PG276   1350-1510 (1h layover criteria)
Bangkok to Guilin
PG821   1613-1949

Phuket to Hong Kong
KA213   1255-1707
Hong Kong to Guilin
CZ3032   1922-2050
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on December 31, 2008, 02:03:48 PM
AR14 Timeline(revised 11/26):

Oct. 31 leg 1 depart U.S. for Locarno, Switzerland via Frankfurt and Zurich or via Milan:
The only applicable flight in the right time frame from the U.S. is UA990 SFO FRA 1348 0830

A different route goes LAX to Milan-Malpensa(MXP) as follows: TN022 1145 0845+1 connecting with AF1214 0945+1 1145+1

Here are the bus schedules in the same time frame:
Shuttle bus leaves airport  Arrival in Bellinzona at  Connecting train leaves  Arrival in Locarno 
12:30                                           14:20                              14:39                        14:58 
14:30                                           16:20                              16:39                        16:58 

From LAX to Milan-Linate a similar schedule applies:
TN (Air Tahiti Nui) 022  LAX CDG  1145 0845+1, conecting with  XM5997  CDG LIN 0935+1 1110+1

From LAX to Zurich via Frankfurt we have the interesting combination:
LH457  LAX FRA  1435 1025+1 connecting with LH3726   FRA ZRH  1200 1255

What I find most interesting is the fit LH457/LH3726 has with the observer comments about seeing 7 teams in Frankfurt Airport the morning of Saturday Nov. 1. I expect no other reason to go to Frankfurt except to connect to Zurich. There are 10 nonstop flights on Saturday between Frankfurt and Zurich, so if any are delayed there are alternatives.

The train schedule from Zurich to Bellinzona to Locarno indicates that 3 1/4 hours is required. Here is is:

Train leaves airport Change in  Connecting train leaves  Arrival in Locarno 
11:47  Zurich HB (main station)             12:09     
                                Arth-Goldau           12:52     
                                 Bellinzona             14:40                         15:06 
12:47  Zurich HB (main station)             13:09     
                                 Bellinzona             15:40                         16:06 
13:47  Zurich HB (main station)             14:09     
                              Arth-Goldau             14:52     
                                 Bellinzona             16:40                         17:07 
16:47   Zurich HB(main station)             17:09
                              Bellinzona                19:40                         19:06


It is my belief that AR14 teams used a minimum of 2 flight combinations to get to Locarno. One may be to Milan, another to Zurich directly, and a third to Zurich via Frankfurt.

Nov. 1 arrive mid-morning in Europe and reach Locarno sometime in the afternoon; then tasks; this might be a TBC to allow known timing of next leg, but probably isn't
Nov. 2 leg 2 Locarno to Domodossola to Spiez to Interlaken by train; then tasks in Interlaken
dep. Locarno 1047 arr. Domodossola 1235
dep. Domodossola 1248 arr. Spiez 1353
dep. Spiez 1425 arr. Interlaken West 1454 or dep. Spiez 1432 arr. Interlaken West 1451
total trip is 4 hours train

Nov. 3 leg 3 Interlaken probably by rail to Zurich, then plane to Salzburg; arrival possibilities mid-morning, mid-afternoon, and late evening
From Interlaken to Salzburg, the early morning Tuesday(as in Nov.4) train schedules are:

dep. Interlaken West 0605 transfer trains in Spiez, Romanschorn, 7 min. walk to ship, ship to Frederichshafen ship terminal, 5 min. walk to Hafen station, 2 min. train to Frederichshafen station, Ulm, then arr. Salzburg 1454 after a 8 hour 53 minute trip OR
dep. Interlaken West 0731 transfer trains in Spiez, Bern, Zurich arr. Salzburg 1529 after a 8 hour 0 minute trip

Based on the above, it seems more likely that teams flew to Salzburg on Nov. 4. In order to do that the optimal route is to take a train from Interlaken to Bern(somtimes changing first in Spiez) and then change for Bern to Zurich. The trains that fit are:

First train is dep. Interlaken West 522 transfer at Bern, arr. Zurich HB 0728, transfer there to Zurich Airport dep. HB 0746 arr. Airport 0747,  a difficult 23 minute connection to make the first flight below from Zurich airport
Next is dep. Interlaken West 1031 transfer at Bern, arr. Zurich HB 1228 dep.HB 1237 arr. Airport 1246 .
Last is dep. Interlaken West 1729 transfer at Spiez and Bern, arr. Zurich HB 1928, dep. HB 1937 arr. Airport 1946.

At Zurich there are  several nonstop flights to Salzburg, each with a connection from one of the train trips above:

C91202/LX4290  0810 0915  ZRH SGZ
C91204/Lx4292  1335 1440  ZRH SGZ
C91208/LX4294  2040 2145  ZRH SGZ

Nov. 4 tasks in Salzburg
Nov. 5 leg 4 depart Salzburg for Bucharest, with several late-night flight options:
through Munich drive back form Salzburg early evening, then LH3424 2130 0025 MUC OTP
through Frankfurt OS269 1830 1950 SGZ FRA connecting to LH3416 2030 0005 FRA OTP
Nov. 6 arrival in Bucharest after midnight; transfer to train to get to Brasov
morning train departures: Bucharest Nord 2358 arr. Brasov 0246  or  dep. 0630 0922  or  dep. 0730 1019  or  dep. 0616 1051(note: nobody would want this) or  0830 1124  or  0942 1254  or  1130 1404
Nov. 7 tasks in Brasov
Nov. 8 leg 5 leave Transylvania for unknown location #1(could be in Siberia)
Nov. 10 leg 6 unknown location #2(could be in Siberia)
Nov. 12 leg 7 unknown location #3
Nov. 14 leg 8 leave unknown location #3 to arrive Bangkok the next morning
Nov. 15 fly Bangkok to Phuket apparently on TG203 0740 0850, then tasks in Phuket area
Nov. 16 leg 9 fly from Phuket to ?
Nov. 18 leg 10 fly from ? to Guilin
Nov. 20 leg 11 Guilin to Beijing flight choices:
CZ3281 0900 1125
CA6312 1145 1435
CZ3287 1710 1950
CA1226 2105 0015

then tasks in Beijing and start pitstop

Nov. 22 leg 12 return from Beijing to U.S. for Finish Line in Hawaii via Tokyo
PEK NRT on Air China has several choices:
CA6651/NH956 0845 1305
CA925               0930 1350
CA167               1350 1750

Continuing on from Tokyo-Narita to Honolulu (NRT to HNL), there are 9 choices with departures between 645pm and 10pm. With the 6 hours 45 minute flying team and 5 hour time difference, these flights arrive HNL 0630 to 0950. The most logical choice to me would be UA880 NRT HNL 1925 0710+1. All these are same day due to crossing the International Date Line.

                        Finish Line on which Hawaiian island not known yet although I guess Oahu now for convenience

Note: this is a 23 day race.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on January 13, 2009, 10:24:31 PM
Alright, so now we have to work with teams in the middle of a Phuket leg afternoon 15 Nov; running a Bangkok leg 16 Nov, and checking into the Guilin Pit Stop late night 17 Nov...

We know that the teams flew into Phuket from Bangkok (Dhall's blog), and with "less airports", could teams have taken a bus back into Bangkok? (It's a bloody 12-hour ride, but the buses are pretty comfortable...)

15 Nov, afternoon: Run Phuket leg
15 Nov, early evening: Check in at Phuket Pit Stop

16 Nov, morning: Check out at Phuket Pit Stop
16 Nov, daytime: Travel by bus/plane to Bangkok
16 Nov, afternoon or early evening: Run Bangkok leg, check in at Bangkok Pit Stop

17 Nov, morning: Check out at Bangkok Pit Stop
17 Nov, most of the day: Travel by plane to Guilin
17 Nov, night: Run Guilin leg
17 Nov, late late night: Check in at Guilin Pit Stop

Same thing can pretty much be accomplished with a flight from Phuket to Bangkok, which gives teams more time to spend in Bangkok for the leg.

For flights from Bangkok to Guilin:
If leaving in the early morning, teams can connect through Guangzhou via TG668 (0950-1330) / CZ3236 (1540-1640).
Next best option, connecting through Hong Kong, TG628 (1030-1420) / UO121 (1645-1810).
Also through Hong Kong, CX750 (1155-1535) / KA700 (1725-1850).
If leaving in the afternoon, the best bet is a direct PG821 to Guilin (1605-1950).

In any case, teams will only be arriving in Guilin at around dusk, giving the late night Guilin check-ins some credibility. But what of our guys in Guangzhou airport?

Close shave with the Bangkok airport! It closed on Nov 25, just one week after our teams left! Or... is it the TAR curse?

ETA: The Phuket-Bangkok bus schedule, correct as of Nov 25.

(http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/9774/phuketbangkokbusny9.th.jpg) (http://img413.imageshack.us/my.php?image=phuketbangkokbusny9.jpg)
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on January 24, 2009, 10:08:07 PM
May I use Apskip's data to propose that Thailand does not come immediately after Krasnojarsk?

Phil was waiting for a flight on the night of Thursday 13 Nov from Delhi to Bangkok. That puts him on one of these two flights:
TG316, Fridays 0005-0535
9W64, Fridays 0100-0655

Note: Since Krasnojarsk serves only other Siberian cities, along with Moscow, St Petersburg and Beijing, I'll assume for now Phil gets out of Krasnojarsk through Moscow. The flight to Beijing doesn't fly this time of the week. Further investigation through other cities, especially St Petersburg, is warranted. Full list of destinations: Moscow, St Petersburg, Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky, Novosibirsk, Yakutsk, Beijing.

The only direct flight between Moscow and Delhi is SU535 1850-0350 on Tuesday night. That means Phil would arrive in Delhi early morning on Wednesday, and leave two days later early morning Friday? Thai Airways and Aeroflot can get Phil from Moscow to Bangkok for two days less of transit.

TG975, Wednesdays 1820-0705
SU553, Wednesdays 1940-0905

Of course, I'm assuming (once again!) that Phil flew direct from Moscow to Delhi. Connections may have been made, but what a journey from Krasnojarsk-Moscow-Connecting City-Delhi-Bangkok-Phuket! (Gutsy Grannies will be proud!) Will try to cover this hole though, but that's for another day.

What do you guys think? And what leg between Krasnojarsk and Phuket would require Phil to go through Delhi?
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: georgiapeach on January 24, 2009, 10:15:22 PM
Great summary, but I'm concerned about relying on the direct flight part, though?

How about a second Siberian city? ???

Or else is Phil just a day ahead of the racers...
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on January 25, 2009, 06:12:08 PM
Of course Phil should be able to leave Siberia a day ahead of the racers. An extended pit stop is all that's needed to get him there.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: DrRox on January 25, 2009, 06:28:29 PM
Or Phil could have left and the rest got caught by the blizzard........
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on January 26, 2009, 01:29:54 PM
AR14 Timeline(revised 1/26 exactly 2 months after the prio version):

1.First there is a comment on what happens between Phuket and Guilin. The most obvious possibility is a leg in Bangkok, but if WRP has a "Been there, done that" attitude like me, I want to see somewhere else in southeast Asia next.
2. We haven't a clue on where in India AR14 is going except that air connections through Delhi on to Bangkok and Phuket are probable. We know that you can easily get to Phuket via Singapore alao.


Oct. 31 leg 1 depart U.S. for Locarno, Switzerland via Frankfurt and Zurich or via Milan:
LAX to Milan-Malpensa(MXP) as follows: TN022 1145 0845+1 connecting with AF1214 0945+1 1145+1

Here are the bus schedules in the same time frame:
Shuttle bus leaves airport  Arrival in Bellinzona at  Connecting train leaves  Arrival in Locarno 
12:30                                           14:20                              14:39                        14:58 
14:30                                           16:20                              16:39                        16:58 

From LAX to Milan-Linate a similar schedule applies:
TN (Air Tahiti Nui) 022  LAX CDG  1145 0845+1, conecting with  XM5997  CDG LIN 0935+1 1110+1

From LAX to Zurich via Frankfurt we have the interesting combination:
LH457  LAX FRA  1435 1025+1 connecting with LH3726   FRA ZRH  1200 1255

Note: some of those above are too early to get if the taditional Amazing Race start timing holds.

What I find most interesting is the fit LH457/LH3726 has with the observer comments about seeing 7 teams in Frankfurt Airport the morning of Saturday Nov. 1. I expect no other reason to go to Frankfurt except to connect to Zurich. There are 10 nonstop flights on Saturday between Frankfurt and Zurich, so if any are delayed there are alternatives.

The train schedule from Zurich to Bellinzona to Locarno indicates that 3 1/4 hours is required. Here is is:

Train leaves airport Change in  Connecting train leaves  Arrival in Locarno 
11:47  Zurich HB (main station)             12:09     
                                Arth-Goldau           12:52     
                                 Bellinzona             14:40                         15:06 
12:47  Zurich HB (main station)             13:09     
                                 Bellinzona             15:40                         16:06 
13:47  Zurich HB (main station)             14:09     
                              Arth-Goldau             14:52     
                                 Bellinzona             16:40                         17:07 
16:47   Zurich HB(main station)             17:09
                              Bellinzona                19:40                         19:06


It is my belief that AR14 teams used a minimum of 2 flight combinations to get to Locarno. One may be to Milan, another to Zurich directly, and a third to Zurich via Frankfurt.

Nov. 1 arrive mid-morning in Europe and reach Locarno sometime in the afternoon; then tasks; this might be a TBC to allow known timing of next leg, but probably isn't in which case we have a pit stop

Nov. 2 leg 2 Locarno to Domodossola to Spiez to Interlaken by train; then tasks in Interlaken
dep. Locarno 1047 arr. Domodossola 1235
dep. Domodossola 1248 arr. Spiez 1353
dep. Spiez 1425 arr. Interlaken West 1454 or dep. Spiez 1432 arr. Interlaken West 1451
total trip is 4 hours train

Nov. 3 leg 3 Interlaken probably by rail to Zurich, then plane to Salzburg; arrival possibilities mid-morning, mid-afternoon, and late evening
From Interlaken to Salzburg, the early morning Tuesday(as in Nov.4) train schedules are:

dep. Interlaken West 0605 transfer trains in Spiez, Romanschorn, 7 min. walk to ship, ship to Frederichshafen ship terminal, 5 min. walk to Hafen station, 2 min. train to Frederichshafen station, Ulm, then arr. Salzburg 1454 after a 8 hour 53 minute trip OR
dep. Interlaken West 0731 transfer trains in Spiez, Bern, Zurich arr. Salzburg 1529 after a 8 hour 0 minute trip

Based on the above, it seems more likely that teams flew to Salzburg on Nov. 4. In order to do that the optimal route is to take a train from Interlaken to Bern(somtimes changing first in Spiez) and then change for Bern to Zurich. The trains that fit are:

First train is dep. Interlaken West 522 transfer at Bern, arr. Zurich HB 0728, transfer there to Zurich Airport dep. HB 0746 arr. Airport 0747,  a difficult 23 minute connection to make the first flight below from Zurich airport
Next is dep. Interlaken West 1031 transfer at Bern, arr. Zurich HB 1228 dep.HB 1237 arr. Airport 1246 .
Last is dep. Interlaken West 1729 transfer at Spiez and Bern, arr. Zurich HB 1928, dep. HB 1937 arr. Airport 1946.

At Zurich there are  several nonstop flights to Salzburg, each with a connection from one of the train trips above:

C91202/LX4290  0810 0915  ZRH SGZ
C91204/Lx4292  1335 1440  ZRH SGZ
C91208/LX4294  2040 2145  ZRH SGZ

Nov. 4 tasks in Salzburg

Nov. 5 leg 4 depart Salzburg for Bucharest, with several late-night flight options:
through Munich drive back form Salzburg early evening, then LH3424 2130 0025 MUC OTP
through Frankfurt OS269 1830 1950 SGZ FRA connecting to LH3416 2030 0005 FRA OTP

Nov. 6 arrival in Bucharest after midnight; transfer to train to get to Brasov
morning train departures: Bucharest Nord 2358 arr. Brasov 0246  or  dep. 0630 0922  or  dep. 0730 1019  or  dep. 0616 1051(note: nobody would want this) or  0830 1124  or  0942 1254  or  1130 1404


Nov. 7 tasks in Brasov, followed by pit stop

Nov. 8 leg 5 leave Transylvania for Krasnojarsk
RO341 Bucharest (OTP)  -  Vienna (VIE)0835 0920,  FV204 Vienna (VIE)  -  St Petersburg (LED) 1050 1530, FV573 St. Petersburg (LED)  -  Krasnojarsk (KJA) 1800 0240+1   OR
LO642  Bucharest (OTP)  -  Warsaw (WAW)1435 1520, LO677 Warsaw (WAW)  -  Moscow (SVO) 1600 2010, SU781 Moscow (SVO)  -  Krasnojarsk (KJA) 0045+1 0910+1   OR
TH1444 Bucharest (OTP)  -  Istanbul (IST) 1050 1215, TK1415 Istanbul (IST)  -  Moscow (SVO) 1335 1740, SU779 Moscow (SVO)  -  Krasnojarsk (KJA) 2055 0540+1

Nov. 9 do tasks and finish with TBC allowing teams to board TransSiberian Express in late afternoon
Here is the schedule from Krasnojarsk to Novosibirsk on a weekday:

Dep.Kr  Arr.No Duration
00:57  14:09  13:12   
02:01  17:27  15:26 
04:10  16:01  11:51   
05:59  20:06  14:07   
06:52  18:51  11:59   
07:18   22:52  15:34     
08:05   21:24  13:19     
10:09   23:55  13:46     
10:36   23:12  12:36     
11:16   00:58  13:42     
12:36   01:12  12:36     
13:51   02:24  12:33     
14:37   04:19  13:42     
15:27   04:33  13:06     
18:26   06:47  12:21     
23:36   12:38  13:02   

My guess is that teams would be ready to leave Krasnojarsk based on a TBC on teh 1351, 1437, or 1527 trains.

Nov. 10 leg 6 TransSiberian Express arrival in Novosibirsk;
tasks; extended pit stop(this is a guess on my part; it might come one leg later or two legs earlier)

Nov. 12 leg 7 fly Novosibirsk to India:
SU810 Novosibirsk (OVB)  -  Moscow (SVO) 0700 0815, KC872 Moscow (SVO)  -  Almaty (ALA) 0920 1645, KC907 Almaty (ALA)  -  Delhi (DEL) 1805 2115
 then connecting to unknown city in India

Nov. 13 arrival and tasks in Indian city TBD

Nov. 14 leg 8 leave Indian city TBD to arrive Bangkok the next morning

Nov. 15 fly Bangkok to Phuket apparently on TG203 0740 0850, then tasks in Phuket area

Nov. 16 leg 9 fly from Phuket to ?

Nov. 18 leg 10 fly from ? to Guilin

Nov. 20 leg 11 Guilin to Beijing flight choices:
CZ3281 0900 1125
CA6312 1145 1435
CZ3287 1710 1950
CA1226 2105 0015

then tasks in Beijing and start pitstop

Nov. 22 leg 12 return from Beijing to U.S. for Finish Line in Hawaii via Tokyo
PEK NRT on Air China has several choices:
CA6651/NH956 0845 1305
CA925               0930 1350
CA167               1350 1750

Continuing on from Tokyo-Narita to Honolulu (NRT to HNL), there are 9 choices with departures between 645pm and 10pm. With the 6 hours 45 minute flying time and 5 hour time difference, these flights arrive HNL 0630 to 0950. The most logical choice to me would be UA880 NRT HNL 1925 0710+1. All these are same day due to crossing the International Date Line.

                        Finish Line on which Hawaiian island not known yet although I guess Oahu now for convenience only

Note: this is a 23 day race.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: georgiapeach on January 26, 2009, 01:41:38 PM
Looking good, except the press releases are now saying a 22 day race. :groan:
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: puddin on January 26, 2009, 01:44:09 PM
Looking good, except the press releases are now saying a 22 day race. :groan:
Well the press is wrong, lol
Oct 31 to Nov 22 = 23 days
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: georgiapeach on January 26, 2009, 01:45:31 PM
Thank goodness, I had used up all my fingers and toes counting! :lol3:
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: TARAsia Fan on January 26, 2009, 02:06:58 PM
Maybe they'll do an eleven day race when CBS really cuts the budget.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on January 27, 2009, 12:35:56 AM
Moscovia flies from Novosibirsk to Delhi - the only other city other than Moscow to fly direct from Russia to India! Would production, and teams, have made use of this?

I believe there are enough sites in Bangkok to warrant a leg there. TPTB's not very hardworking in finding new locations, it is true.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on January 27, 2009, 07:55:05 AM
Neobie,

Your information on Moskovia Airlines is interesting. It appears to be a new airline and is not on any of the flight information summariess that I follow. However, it does have a website in Cyrillic, http://www.ak3r.ru/. If we have anyone who can navigate through Cyrillic and let me know where the "Make a Reservation" part is, I would appreciate it. I could then do what I do once I get the right place to access. I have punched everything item on the home page of that website without getting anything remotely like a "Make a Reservation" part.

Neobie, I would like to know the source from you obtained this information about Moscovia.
Title: Re: The Amazing Race 14 Locations, spoiler summary on page 1
Post by: apskip on January 27, 2009, 09:43:32 AM
I think I am ready to discuss the factors against Serbia be part of AR14. First and foremost is the fact that teams were on late-night flights on Nov. 4 arriving in Bucharest just after midnight. That puts a limit on when teams would have to leave Belgrade, Serbia to get to Salzburg.These are the latest such flights:

BEG DUS JU360 1655 1905 connecting Dusseldorf with  DUS OTP OS212 1955 2155

BEG FRA  LH3407 1640 1855 connecting Frankfurt with FRA OTP LH3416 2050 0010

BEG MUC LH3403 1645 1825 connecting in Munich with MUC OTP LH3424 2130 0025

In all cases teams have to leave Belgrade before 5pm to make the arrival we know they get in Bucharest.

Now, working forwards from Interlaken, the earliest, but somewhat unlikely departure time is Monday Nov. 3 0522 at Interlaken West train station. The earliest they can get to Salzburg is 0915 that morning and it is highly likely that some teams get later flights. After tasks in Salzburg are completed it will be mid-afternoon or later and a pit stop will carry us up to early morning of Nov. 4.

Flights from Salzburg on Tuesday Nov. 4 are these:

OS920 0825 0935 SZG VIE connecting Vienna with JU315 1055 1220

OS263 1030 1150 SZG FRA connecting Frankfurt with LH3406 1345 1535

OS918 1145 1245  SZG VIE connecting Vienna with OS773 1325 1435

So the earliest of these arrives 4.5 hours before the necessary departure. This does not compute! It is logistically impossible for the Amazing Race to have fit Serbia in between Salzburg and Bucharest. Besides that an extra leg to make 13 would be necessary. That did not happen. I have to conclude that the author of that article spelled Siberia as Serbia.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: georgiapeach on January 27, 2009, 04:55:36 PM
Good explanantion, apskip! :tup:
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on January 29, 2009, 08:01:13 PM
Would anyone (Apskip, give it a try?) be able to figure out how the Munoz brothers end up in Guangzhou on 17 Nov while going from Bangkok to Guilin. while everyone's already checking in at the Pit Stop? I believe the Bangkok leg took place on 16 Nov, which would give us a late morning/afternoon 17 Nov departure.

I suppose the direct to Guilin might be full, but would they have missed all the Hong Kong flights as well? I'm a little stuck...

(AirAsia, China Southern, Egypt Air, Ethiopian Air, Kenya Air and Thai Airways all fly to Guangzhou, but most are on the wrong days...)
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: puddin on January 29, 2009, 09:56:51 PM
I'll write to the eyewitness Neobie to see if she had her dates right and will let you know if i get a reply.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on January 30, 2009, 08:16:04 AM
Neobie,

I rise to the challenge. I find like you that many of the better flight combinations are not available on Monday Nov. 17, one of 2 possible days for doing this. A nonstop Bangkok to Guilin flight is on Sundays and Wednesdays but not Mondays. The best I have for Nov. 17 to Guangzhou and then on to Guilin for the leading teams is:

KQ234(Kenya Airways)  BKK CAN  1315 1715  connecting with CZ3303 (China Southern) CAN KWL 2030 2130. That gives the Munoz brothers until about 2115 to be spotted.

The better flights are TG668  BKK CAN  0950 1330  connecting to  CZ3236  CAN KWL 1540 1640    or
EK384(Ethiopian Air)  BKK CAN 1320 1710 connecting with  CZ3032  CAN KWL 1935 2050

If teams took an extended rest stop and their departure was Tuesday Nov. 18, here is what I have:

CX754  BKK HKG 1130 1515  connecting with UO121(Hong Kong Express)  HKG KWL 1645 1810 (or several earlier flights that make the same connection)  or

MS958(EgyptAir)  BKK CAN  1310 1655  connecting with  ZH9669(Shenzen Air) CAN KWL   2110 2225 This one would give the Munoz brothers until 2200 to be spotted before boarding.

Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on January 31, 2009, 02:29:01 AM
Aah, so Bangkok Airways doesn't run on Mondays! That solves the problem on why the Munoz brothers took a flight that sucked so much! I think the Hong Kong connections (UO121 or KA700) work on Mondays - but wow - this means an entire Guilin leg taking place in the darkness?



Time to eliminate some cities as the India candidate. To recap:

Phil was waiting for a flight on the night of Thursday 13 Nov from Delhi to Bangkok. That puts him on one of these two flights:
TG316, Fridays 0005-0535
9W64, Fridays 0100-0655

TG314 flies from Kolkata to Bangkok, 0155-0550,
TG318 flies from Mumbai to Bangkok, 2320-0505,
TG338 flies from Chennai to Bangkok, 0015-0510, and
TG326 flies from Bangalore to Bangkok, 0030-0545.
Phil wouldn't have to fly through Delhi to get to Bangkok, so we know he didn't actually start in these four cities.

And remember - Phil's not in a race for minutes - not when all these flights land within half an hour of each other, and not when he's a full day ahead of the racers (http://forum.realityfanforum.com/index.php/topic,17788.200.html)! (This points to an extended Pit Stop in India.) Production would want him to take the cheapest reasonable connection to Bangkok, not necessarily the absolutely quickest flight. So... what works?

Northern India's my best guess. The rest of India looks like flights could be cheaper from the other hub cities. Example: Connecting through Bangalore instead of Delhi from Kochi - if such a flight exists - would save Phil quite a sum of money in exchange for 10 minutes...

(http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gcmap?PATH=cok-blr-bkk,cok-del-bkk&PATH-COLOR=red)
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on January 31, 2009, 09:13:29 AM
Neobie,

I applaud your efforts to narrow this down. I don't find all of them convincing due to assumptions you have made. Let us start with assuming that the flight for Phil must be on Nov. 13 just before midnight or 14 just after. I would not conclude that based on the information from the blogger, who I recall to be not specific on the exact time of sighting. I would expect that the flight could be well after midnight.

I have looked at your Cochin to Bangalore to Bangkok flight combination. There are flights that do that, but they leave just after 5pm from Cochin and arrive about 740am into Bangkok.

The assumption that World Race Productions are trying to minimize air fare for Phil is possible, but I don't consider it likely. They are likely to ticket him just like the racers, which means in Y class with total flexibility. The only huge savings are possible when you have a fixed time and lots of advance notice for a one-way ticket purchase. I would not expect that to be the way World Race Productions did it. They would have had private advance reservations for Phil but I don't expect anything more because the timing of the Amazing Race can be disrupted by pilgrimages in southern Africa and by snowstorms in Siberia.

Those things said, I think Bangalore itself is a logical place for an Amazing Race leg. It is the largest city in India that has not yet hosted an Amazing Race leg. I even have the perfect flight out, nonstop TG268 BLR BKK 0030 0545.  I show arrival in Delhi from Novosibirsk via Moscow and Almaty at 2115. Unfortunately, there are no flights from Delhi departing between about 9pm and 6am, so that is out.

Hyderabad would be my second choice. Hyderabad has no flights between 9am and 6am.

Next would be Goa, a neat place not visited yet by an Amazing Race. There are no flight between 1pm and 8am for Goa.

Next is Cochin, which we know a little about from ARA3. Cochin has one late flight, AI315 DEL BOM 2200 0015 connecting to AI690 BOM COK 0130 315 (sound familiar, ARA3 fans).

Next is Varanasi, one of the holiest cities in India. All listed flights there from Delhi are in the morning, departing form 6am to 1040am. No go.

Next is Chennai, already visited by the Amazing Race. Flights are from 6am to 820pm only.

I try Calcutta out of desperation since the Amazing Race has been there, but there are no flights from 845pm to 11am.

I try Mumbai because that too has hosted Amazing Races but as the largest city in India it should have flights. It does, AI349 0400 0615 and also the AI315 DEL BOM 2200 0015 used as the front end to Cochin.

Ahmedabad has nothing between 7pm and 6am.

Jaipur has nothing between 730pm and 545am.

In conclusion, in all of the major cities of India only Mumbai and Cochin have late-night slghts originating from Delhi and there are only one each (plus the 10pm origination flight Mumbai on the way to Cochin). This is startling to me. Indian State Railways has departures at odd times all through the night, but the willingness of Indians to fly at night must be different.

Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: georgiapeach on January 31, 2009, 10:43:42 AM
wow guys, you are awesome!

Remember that one of our sources saw Phil flying Business Class so he doesn't come cheap, lol!

And my vote, just because I loved it so, is for Varanasi, aka Benares. This is an incredibly visual city, and one of the most overwheming culturally. It is the most holy city, Hindus believe if you die here, you no longer go through reincarnation.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on January 31, 2009, 10:17:36 PM
I would not conclude that based on the information from the blogger, who I recall to be not specific on the exact time of sighting. I would expect that the flight could be well after midnight.

...

The assumption that World Race Productions are trying to minimize air fare for Phil is possible, but I don't consider it likely. They are likely to ticket him just like the racers, which means in Y class with total flexibility.

I think I can back up this assumption to some extent. As of last November, only Thai, Jet and Indian Air had flights from Delhi to Bangkok. I can't access the Indian Airlines website (stupid Mainland China censorship!), but neither Jet Airways nor Thai Airways had other flights to Bangkok at night. Will check Indian Airlines once I get home!

Now even if Phil were to be ticketed as the racers, cost savings can still be earned by flying a shorter distance?

Hmm, I don't think Phil would have to go from (Bangalore, Cochin, Chennai, Kolkata or Mumbai) to Delhi, and then change flights to get to Bangkok; if he could have simply hopped on the direct, saving him at least a connection and several hours... The remaining places look possible though!
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: DrRox on February 01, 2009, 07:52:54 AM

Remember that one of our sources saw Phil flying Business Class so he doesn't come cheap, lol!
 

I guess about by TAR3, I started thinking about the actual mechanics of how TAR was produced. Around TAR 5/6, it sort of hit me that Phil was probably leaving the pit stop right after the last team arrived. He would have to do his to be able to do all the stand ups for the detours/roadblocks and all the time he would have to wait by the pit stop mat. So to me, his flying biz class is really his hotel room. He has to lie down and get some sleep, somewhere.



Next would be Goa, a neat place not visited yet by an Amazing Race. There are no flight between 1pm and 8am for Goa.


I couldn't agree more with you apskip.....Goa is NEAT and UNIQUE......I have wanted them to go to Goa since TAR1. Maybe, one day, you and I will get our wishes for them to go to Goa and do some things. They went "through" Goa on TAR4, but I don't think they even slowed down on the way from Mumbai to Cochin.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: georgiapeach on February 01, 2009, 03:59:58 PM
(http://i41.[banned image hosting site].com/o9h3qa.jpg)

Since we know that the Dam bungee is on the morning of the second day, this looks like now that Leg 1 will include all of the Interlaken tasks, with Leg 2 then being Bavaria and Salzburg...

Which will then take us down to the 11 leg race the schedule suggests, right?

There have been questions raised by the FutonCritic (usually an accurate source) citing a 11 episode AR14 vs. the 12 episodes that I have been showing. It is now apparent that it was the Futon Critic who was wrong. AR14 is a 12 episode race.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Kiwi Jay on February 01, 2009, 04:12:23 PM
This is what I also thought!
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on February 01, 2009, 04:37:52 PM
I would not conclude that based on the information from the blogger, who I recall to be not specific on the exact time of sighting. I would expect that the flight could be well after midnight.

...

The assumption that World Race Productions are trying to minimize air fare for Phil is possible, but I don't consider it likely. They are likely to ticket him just like the racers, which means in Y class with total flexibility.

I think I can back up this assumption to some extent. As of last November, only Thai, Jet and Indian Air had flights from Delhi to Bangkok. I can't access the Indian Airlines website (stupid Mainland China censorship!), but neither Jet Airways nor Thai Airways had other flights to Bangkok at night. Will check Indian Airlines once I get home!

Now even if Phil were to be ticketed as the racers, cost savings can still be earned by flying a shorter distance?

Hmm, I don't think Phil would have to go from (Bangalore, Cochin, Chennai, Kolkata or Mumbai) to Delhi, and then change flights to get to Bangkok; if he could have simply hopped on the direct, saving him at least a connection and several hours... The remaining places look possible though!
Neobie, let me offer an alternate opinion on the premise that you have for when the Delhi sighting would have taken place. I believe that it happened on the way into the final Indian city, with changing planes in Delhi. I do not think it happened on the way from the final Indian city through Delhi to Bangkok. My way the cities you mentioned are not ruled out except by not having after-midnight flights from Delhi. The "remaining places" are not possible by that logic and neither are Bangalore, Chennai, or Kolkata.

I will further state that there are two things we do don't know, one being flights from smaller Indian cities like Pune for example and the other the schedules of small Indian airlines that do do make the general-purpose reservations systems that I use for flight information. If time permits I will take a look at this.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on February 01, 2009, 08:20:20 PM
Aah, I get your drift Apskip. But according to the spoiler Phil was flying from Delhi to Bangkok?

Managed to get on the Air India website! They don't have evening directs to Bangkok though (and I really don't think Phil would connect through Mumbai just for the heck of it), so I maintain that these are the only two possible flights that he could have been on?

TG316, Fridays 0005-0535
9W64, Fridays 0100-0655



Now assuming the theory works, Goa wouldn't work as a destination. Air India (IC594) has a flight from Goa to Bangalore, Thursdays 2115 to 2210, which connects well to the flight to Bangkok at 0030. Flight time from Goa to Delhi is 150 minutes, which means Phil would definitely save time (and possibly money) travelling through Bangalore.

Hyderabad doesn't look good either, with a Jet Airways (9W3548) flying from Hyderabad to Bangalore 2125 to 2250.

Kochi's last flight to Delhi is Jet Airways (9W7012) 1610 to 1920, and Phil has better options through Chennai and Bangalore. However, these cities are connected via Kingfisher and Paramount Airlines, and I'm not sure if Phil would take a less established airline?

Varanasi connects best through Delhi, but all flights to Delhi leave before the direct TG8821 (Thursdays 1630-2115) that goes straight to Bangkok. If Phil could have taken the direct, why connect through Delhi? (Damn, I wanted Varanasi!)

Both Ahmedabad and Jaipur look possible. Jet Airways (9W706) flies from Ahmedabad to Delhi Thursdays 2030 to 2150, and Air India (IC895) flies from Jaipur to Delhi Thursdays 1815 to 1855. There are flights that can get Phil from Ahmedabad to Mumbai to Bangkok, but they're not so much better than Delhi than to rule a Delhi transfer out. For Jaipur though, Delhi is solid.

In terms of probabilities based on flight options, I'd say:
Jaipur > Ahmedabad > Kochi > Hyderabad, Goa and Varanasi > Mumbai, Chennai, Bangalore and Kolkata


Basically, the closer you are to Delhi and the further you are from the cities that have their own flights to Bangkok, the better the chances!

What do you guys think?
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Mrs Shrek on February 01, 2009, 08:46:13 PM
What do you guys think?

:tup: I think you guys are amazing! :cheer:

:word: I mean I understand most of what you post, but the research is waaaay beyond me :colors
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Kiwi Jay on February 01, 2009, 09:15:38 PM
 :lol: Phenomonal. But you put more than enough in Mrs. Shrek. I wish I could contribute more but I dont have a distinct thing that I can do like most of you
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Mrs Shrek on February 01, 2009, 10:08:14 PM
:lol: Phenomonal. But you put more than enough in Mrs. Shrek. I wish I could contribute more but I dont have a distinct thing that I can do like most of you
A lot of it doesn't involve any special skill except persistence. It is just slow hard work trawling thru page after page of possibilities until you maybe find what you are looking for, or maybe not....
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on February 02, 2009, 04:23:14 PM
Neobie,
First, I do concur with your after-midnight flights Delhi ot Bangkok. The only ones in that category are 9W64 and TG316.

Second, I do concur with your priniciples of closer-to-Delhi and no direct flight to Bangkok.

On the specifics of cities, I had ot start all over again as a result of your pointing out that Phil was sighted on the way to Bangkok sometime near midnight between Thursday Nov. 13 and Friday Nov. 14. That means i had all my flight information in the wrong direction. That is easy enough to correct and you get different conclusions that I originally did when it is corrected. The cities of Srinagar, Madurai and unfortuantely Varanasi are out for sure according to our methods. The other cities are as follows in last flight arriving before midnight:

Bangalore IC404 1950 2200
Chennai    6E282 1745 2230
Goa           IC888 1645 2055
Hyderabad 6E206 2100 2305
Calcutta    6E774 1945 2210
Bombay     6E182 2115 2320
Pune         IC850  1845 2045
Cochin      9W404 connecting 9W304 1605 2100
Jaipur        IT612  1950 2030
Lucknow JetLite S2162 2025 2125
Ahmedabad 9W705 2030 2150
Udaipur     9W3326  1840 2020  
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on February 04, 2009, 05:01:36 AM
Erm... Because we're bored, and because we can? :umn: (You shall not make me look for Swiss chalet windows!)

We know Phil is only ready to leave Delhi after 9.55am on Thursday, or he would have made an earlier TG324 to Bangkok, leaving at 11.55am. Instead he took a flight that evening. If Phil flew into Delhi airport, we could look at a list of all flights arriving after 9.55am on Thursdays... (Edited for clarity, thanks Apskip!)



Close to impossible; these cities have direct flights to Bangkok that depart after the Delhi flight:
Kolkata, Mumbai, Chennai, Bangalore, Varanasi

Very unlikely; these cities have Indian/Jet Air flights superior to a Delhi connection, with Phil saving time and distance:
Aurangabad, Vishakhapatnam, Kochi, Goa, Guwahati, Nagpur, Ahmedabad, Bhubaneswar, Hyderabad

Unlikely; these airports connect best through Delhi, but are tiny airports with no more than three departures a day:
Leh, Shimla, Gwalior, Surat Gujarat, Jodhpur, Dharamsala, Dehra Dun, Gorakhpur, Kanpur, Agra

Possible; this flight, through Kolkata, is superior to a Delhi connection, but uses the smaller airline Kingfisher:
Ranchi

No reason for rejection, yet; here is the list of the remaining candidates, flight schedule-wise:
Jaipur, Sri Nagar, Jammu, Bagdogra, Chandigarh, Raipur, Udaipur, Amritsar, Pune, Lucknow, Indore, Vadodara, Bhopal, Patna

Specifics left out to save us all some headache, if you need them PM me!



We can't tell for sure if Phil didn't just take a train in, but that would limit him to maybe a 12-hour radius of Delhi.

Well, if there's one thing we know for certain, the leg is not in Southern India. It's too far for anything but a flight, and no airports south of Pune give us the correct flight combinations.

If the leg turns out to be in Delhi I will jump off a tall building... (:;)
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on February 04, 2009, 09:00:40 AM
Neobie,
Between what you ahve done and what I have done, the "waterfront has been covered". Until there is some hint of new information, we just have to sit and wait. One comment I have for you is that two times you quoted as "AM" shoudl really be "PM". Phil was not spoted in the middle of the day, he was spotted near midnight. Also, 2 hours to connect at Delhi airport only applies when you aer going from one terminal to another. Aren't some international flights in the terminal adjacent to the domestic terminal? If so, then something closer to 1 hour ought to be oK.

The location of the India leg could be Delhi, but I doubt it. There was just 2 legs in AR13 in Delhi.

As for taking the trian, that is something contestants occasionally have to do, but not Phil. World Race Productions knows the value of his time and would only send him on a train for short distances(which could be done by taxi just as easily).
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: puddin on February 04, 2009, 11:22:17 AM
Erm... Because we're bored, and because we can? :umn: (You shall not make me look for Swiss chalet windows!)


If the leg turns out to be in Delhi I will jump off a tall building... (:;)
Come over to the dark side Neobie! You don't want to be left out of all the fun do you? :lol:
Don't jump without me! we can hold hands on the way down :nut:
I can see why TPTB love India, we have never had a sighting of teams in all the seasons they have been there, perfect right?
Shudders at the thought of another horrible train ride insert anywhere India here.
Good job Neobie and Apskips  :jam:
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on February 04, 2009, 07:55:23 PM
puddin, to be perfectly fair about it, I doubt that World Race Productions schedules India to prevent us from learning about that leg. I suspect something more mundane like the viewer-pleasing footage that always results from short-term exposure to the Indian culture. Despite the fact that hundreds of millions in India speak at least rudimentary English, there is probably 5 times as many Indians that speak no English. That culture clash is always interesting to me and I bet to most Amazing Race viewers.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: puddin on February 04, 2009, 09:39:58 PM
puddin, to be perfectly fair about it, I doubt that World Race Productions schedules India to prevent us from learning about that leg. I suspect something more mundane like the viewer-pleasing footage that always results from short-term exposure to the Indian culture. Despite the fact that hundreds of millions in India speak at least rudimentary English, there is probably 5 times as many Indians that speak no English. That culture clash is always interesting to me and I bet to most Amazing Race viewers.
The same could be said about Thailand, notably Bangkok.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on February 05, 2009, 08:53:08 AM
AR14 Timeline(revised 2/5):

NOTE: I have made changes for Interlaken through Romania. The net effect of them is to have leg 3 be to Salzburg and legs 4 and 5 be in Romania.

Oct. 31 leg 1 depart U.S. for Locarno, Switzerland via Frankfurt and Zurich or via Milan:

LAX to Milan-Malpensa(MXP) as follows: TN022 1145 0845+1 connecting with AF1214 0945+1 1145+1

Here are the bus schedules in the same time frame:
Shuttle bus leaves airport  Arrival in Bellinzona at  Connecting train leaves  Arrival in Locarno 
12:30                                           14:20                              14:39                        14:58 
14:30                                           16:20                              16:39                        16:58 

From LAX to Milan-Linate a similar schedule applies:
TN (Air Tahiti Nui) 022  LAX CDG  1145 0845+1, conecting with  XM5997  CDG LIN 0935+1 1110+1

From LAX to Zurich via Frankfurt we have the interesting combination:
LH457  LAX FRA  1435 1025+1 connecting with LH3726   FRA ZRH  1200 1255

What I find most interesting is the fit LH457/LH3726 has with the observer comments about seeing 7 teams in Frankfurt Airport the morning of Saturday Nov. 1. I expect no other reason to go to Frankfurt except to connect to Zurich. There are 10 nonstop flights on Saturday between Frankfurt and Zurich, so if any are delayed there are alternatives.

The train schedule from Zurich to Bellinzona to Locarno indicates that 3 1/4 hours is required. Here is is:

Train leaves airport Change in  Connecting train leaves  Arrival in Locarno 
11:47  Zurich HB (main station)             12:09     
                                Arth-Goldau           12:52     
                                 Bellinzona             14:40                         15:06 
12:47  Zurich HB (main station)             13:09     
                                 Bellinzona             15:40                         16:06 
13:47  Zurich HB (main station)             14:09     
                              Arth-Goldau             14:52     
                                 Bellinzona             16:40                         17:07 
16:47   Zurich HB(main station)             17:09
                              Bellinzona                19:40                         19:06


It is my belief that AR14 teams used a minimum of 2 flight combinations to get to Locarno. One may be to Milan, another to Zurich directly, and a third to Zurich via Frankfurt.

Nov. 1 arrive mid-morning in Europe and reach Locarno sometime in the afternoon; then tasks; this might be a TBC to allow known timing of next leg, but probably isn't
Nov. 2 Verzasca Dam bungee jump then Locarno to Domodossola to Spiez to Interlaken by train; then tasks in Interlaken
dep. Locarno 1047 arr. Domodossola 1235
dep. Domodossola 1248 arr. Spiez 1353
dep. Spiez 1425 arr. Interlaken West 1454 or dep. Spiez 1432 arr. Interlaken West 1451
total trip is 4 hours train

There is an alternate train route through the Goschenen Tunnel

Interlaken tasks

Nov. 3 leg 2 Interlaken possibly by rail to Zurich, then plane to Salzburg; arrival possibilities mid-morning, mid-afternoon, and late evening
From Interlaken to Salzburg, the early morning Tuesday(as in Nov.4) train schedules are:

dep. Interlaken West 0605 transfer trains in Spiez, Romanschorn, 7 min. walk to ship, ship to Frederichshafen ship terminal, 5 min. walk to Hafen station, 2 min. train to Frederichshafen station, Ulm, then arr. Salzburg 1454 after a 8 hour 53 minute trip OR
dep. Interlaken West 0731 transfer trains in Spiez, Bern, Zurich arr. Salzburg 1529 after a 8 hour 0 minute trip

More likely it will be a 5.5 hour (standard case with no getting lost along the way) self-drive car trip west to east within sight of the Alps all the way to Bertechsgaden

Tasks in Bertechsgaden and Raushberg parasailing.
Evening Pit stop in Salzburg

Nov. 4 leg 3 depart Salzburg for Bucharest, with several late-night flight options:
through Munich drive back from Salzburg early evening, then LH3424 2130 0025 MUC OTP
through Frankfurt OS269 1830 1950 SGZ FRA connecting to LH3416 2030 0005 FRA OTP

Nov. 6 arrival in Bucharest after midnight; transfer to train to get to Brasov
morning train departures: Bucharest Nord 2358 arr. Brasov 0246  or  dep. 0630 0922  or  dep. 0730 1019  or  dep. 0616 1051(note: nobody would want this) or  0830 1124  or  0942 1254  or  1130 1404
Nov. 7 tasks in Brasov
pit stop in Transylvania (includes Brasov)

Nov. 8 leg 5 AR14 Timeline(revised 1/26 exactly 2 months after the prio version):

1.First there is a comment on what happens between Phuket and Guilin. The most obvious possibility is a leg in Bangkok, but if WRP has a "Been there, done that" attitude like me, I want to see somewhere else in southeast Asia next.
2. We haven't a clue on where in India AR14 is going except that air connections through Delhi on to Bangkok and Phuket are probable. We know that you can easily get to Phuket via Singapore alao.


Oct. 31 leg 1 depart U.S. for Locarno, Switzerland via Frankfurt and Zurich or via Milan:
LAX to Milan-Malpensa(MXP) as follows: TN022 1145 0845+1 connecting with AF1214 0945+1 1145+1

Here are the bus schedules in the same time frame:
Shuttle bus leaves airport  Arrival in Bellinzona at  Connecting train leaves  Arrival in Locarno 
12:30                                           14:20                              14:39                        14:58 
14:30                                           16:20                              16:39                        16:58 

From LAX to Milan-Linate a similar schedule applies:
TN (Air Tahiti Nui) 022  LAX CDG  1145 0845+1, conecting with  XM5997  CDG LIN 0935+1 1110+1

From LAX to Zurich via Frankfurt we have the interesting combination:
LH457  LAX FRA  1435 1025+1 connecting with LH3726   FRA ZRH  1200 1255

Note: some of those above are too early to get if the taditional Amazing Race start timing holds.

What I find most interesting is the fit LH457/LH3726 has with the observer comments about seeing 7 teams in Frankfurt Airport the morning of Saturday Nov. 1. I expect no other reason to go to Frankfurt except to connect to Zurich. There are 10 nonstop flights on Saturday between Frankfurt and Zurich, so if any are delayed there are alternatives.

The train schedule from Zurich to Bellinzona to Locarno indicates that 3 1/4 hours is required. Here is is:

Train leaves airport Change in  Connecting train leaves  Arrival in Locarno 
11:47  Zurich HB (main station)             12:09     
                                Arth-Goldau           12:52     
                                 Bellinzona             14:40                         15:06 
12:47  Zurich HB (main station)             13:09     
                                 Bellinzona             15:40                         16:06 
13:47  Zurich HB (main station)             14:09     
                              Arth-Goldau             14:52     
                                 Bellinzona             16:40                         17:07 
16:47   Zurich HB(main station)             17:09
                              Bellinzona                19:40                         19:06


It is my belief that AR14 teams used a minimum of 2 flight combinations to get to Locarno. One may be to Milan, another to Zurich directly, and a third to Zurich via Frankfurt.

Nov. 1 arrive mid-morning in Europe and reach Locarno sometime in the afternoon; then tasks; this might be a TBC to allow known timing of next leg, but probably isn't in which case we have a pit stop

Nov. 2 leg 2 Locarno to Domodossola to Spiez to Interlaken by train; then tasks in Interlaken
dep. Locarno 1047 arr. Domodossola 1235
dep. Domodossola 1248 arr. Spiez 1353
dep. Spiez 1425 arr. Interlaken West 1454 or dep. Spiez 1432 arr. Interlaken West 1451
total trip is 4 hours train

Nov. 3 leg 3 Interlaken probably by rail to Zurich, then plane to Salzburg; arrival possibilities mid-morning, mid-afternoon, and late evening
From Interlaken to Salzburg, the early morning Tuesday(as in Nov.4) train schedules are:

dep. Interlaken West 0605 transfer trains in Spiez, Romanschorn, 7 min. walk to ship, ship to Frederichshafen ship terminal, 5 min. walk to Hafen station, 2 min. train to Frederichshafen station, Ulm, then arr. Salzburg 1454 after a 8 hour 53 minute trip OR
dep. Interlaken West 0731 transfer trains in Spiez, Bern, Zurich arr. Salzburg 1529 after a 8 hour 0 minute trip

Based on the above, it seems more likely that teams flew to Salzburg on Nov. 4. In order to do that the optimal route is to take a train from Interlaken to Bern(somtimes changing first in Spiez) and then change for Bern to Zurich. The trains that fit are:

First train is dep. Interlaken West 522 transfer at Bern, arr. Zurich HB 0728, transfer there to Zurich Airport dep. HB 0746 arr. Airport 0747,  a difficult 23 minute connection to make the first flight below from Zurich airport; see a. below for best flight
Next is dep. Interlaken West 1031 transfer at Bern, arr. Zurich HB 1228 dep.HB 1237 arr. Airport 1246; see b. below for best flight
Last is dep. Interlaken West 1729 transfer at Spiez and Bern, arr. Zurich HB 1928, dep. HB 1937 arr. Airport 1946; see c. below for best flight

At Zurich there are  several nonstop flights to Salzburg, each with a connection from one of the train trips above:

a. C91202/LX4290  0810 0915  ZRH SGZ
b. C91204/Lx4292  1335 1440  ZRH SGZ
c. C91208/LX4294  2040 2145  ZRH SGZ
tasks in Salzburg
pit stop

Nov. 4 leg 4 depart Salzburg for Bucharest, with several late-night flight options:
through Munich drive back form Salzburg early evening, then LH3424 2130 0025 MUC OTP
through Frankfurt OS269 1830 1950 SGZ FRA connecting to LH3416 2030 0005 FRA OTP

Nov. 5 arrival in Bucharest after midnight; transfer to train to get to Brasov
morning train departures: Bucharest Nord 2358 arr. Brasov 0246  or  dep. 0630 0922  or  dep. 0730 1019  or  dep. 0616 1051(note: nobody would want this) or  0830 1124  or  0942 1254  or  1130 1404
tasks in Brasov area, ending with either a TBC or normal pitstop

Nov. 6 more tasks in Transylvania plus possibly Bucharest

Nov. 7 pit stop somewhere in Romania

Nov. 8 leg 5 get to Bucharest if not already there
leave Transylvania for Krasnojarsk
RO341 Bucharest (OTP)  -  Vienna (VIE)0835 0920,  FV204 Vienna (VIE)  -  St Petersburg (LED) 1050 1530, FV573 St. Petersburg (LED)  -  Krasnojarsk (KJA) 1800 0240+1   OR
LO642  Bucharest (OTP)  -  Warsaw (WAW)1435 1520, LO677 Warsaw (WAW)  -  Moscow (SVO) 1600 2010, SU781 Moscow (SVO)  -  Krasnojarsk (KJA) 0045+1 0910+1   OR
TH1444 Bucharest (OTP)  -  Istanbul (IST) 1050 1215, TK1415 Istanbul (IST)  -  Moscow (SVO) 1335 1740, SU779 Moscow (SVO)  -  Krasnojarsk (KJA) 2055 0540+1

Nov. 9 do tasks and finish with TBC allowing teams to board TransSiberian Express in late afternoon
Here is the schedule from Krasnojarsk to Novosibirsk on a weekday:

Dep.Kr  Arr.No Duration
00:57  14:09  13:12   
02:01  17:27  15:26 
04:10  16:01  11:51   
05:59  20:06  14:07   
06:52  18:51  11:59   
07:18   22:52  15:34     
08:05   21:24  13:19     
10:09   23:55  13:46     
10:36   23:12  12:36     
11:16   00:58  13:42     
12:36   01:12  12:36     
13:51   02:24  12:33     
14:37   04:19  13:42     
15:27   04:33  13:06     
18:26   06:47  12:21     
23:36   12:38  13:02   

My guess is that teams would be ready to leave Krasnojarsk based on a TBC on the 1351, 1437, or 1527 trains.

Nov. 10 leg 6 TransSiberian Express arrival in Novosibirsk
ride on Trans Siberian Express train trip to Novosibirsk
tasks in Novosibirsk, Siberia
pit stop

Nov. 12 leg 7 flights Novosibirsk to Moscow to Delhi, India and on to somewhere in northern India
SU810 Novosibirsk (OVB)  -  Moscow (SVO) 0700 0815, KC872 Moscow (SVO)  -  Almaty (ALA) 0920 1645, KC907 Almaty (ALA)  -  Delhi (DEL) 1805 2115
 then connecting to unknown city in India
tasks
pit stop

Nov. 14 leg 8 leave "somewhere in northern India" to Bangkok

Nov. 15 fly Bangkok to Phuket apparently on TG203 0740 0850, then tasks in Phuket area
pit stop

Nov. 16 leg 9 possibly fly from Phuket to Bangkok
Choices for flights are: TG226 0725 0850, TG1204 0935 1100, PG272 1025 1145, TG1206 1235 1400, TG1214 1355 1520, PPG 276 1350 1510
 
tasks in Bangkok area
pit stop

Nov. 18 leg 10 fly probably form Bangkok to to Guilin
 Shenzen Air 9669 BKK CAN 2110 2225. The viable CAN KWL flights are TG668 0950 1330 and MS958 1310 1655. 
tasks in Guilin area
extended pit stop

Nov. 20 leg 11 Guilin to Beijing flight choices:
CZ3281 0900 1125
CA6312 1145 1435
CZ3287 1710 1950
CA1226 2105 0015

then tasks in Beijing and start regular pitstop

Nov. 21 leg 12 return from Beijing to U.S. for Finish Line in Hawaii via Tokyo
PEK NRT on Air China has several choices:
CA6651/NH956 0845 1305
CA925               0930 1350
CA167               1350 1750

Continuing on from Tokyo-Narita to Honolulu (NRT to HNL), there are 9 choices with departures between 645pm and 10pm. With the 6 hours 45 minute flying team and 5 hour time difference, these flights arrive HNL 0630 to 0950. The most logical choice to me would be UA880 NRT HNL 1925 0710+1. All these are same day due to crossing the International Date Line.

                        Finish Line on which Hawaiian island not known yet although I guess Oahu now for convenience

Note: this is a 22 day race.
 
 
 
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: DrRox on February 05, 2009, 10:34:15 AM
Have we gotten an approx time that Phil says     "Goooooooooo"???
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Slowhatch on February 05, 2009, 10:58:42 AM
In past seasons it's been around 10:30-11:00. There are some shadows in the promo video that can pin it down even closer.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: DrRox on February 05, 2009, 11:16:41 AM
Thanks slowhatch, I went through the threads seeing if I could find one of Chateau's time computations. My eyes are shot from looking at white buildings and green shutters and wondered if I had missed it....

For you SoCal experts, what do you figure total time from Los Alamitos JFB to ticket counter at LAX,  taking into account Sat morning drive time, time for parking car, and shuttle bus to terminal counters?
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: puddin on February 05, 2009, 11:25:28 AM

This might help  :tup:


Now with the correct location:

This shot was taken between 10:13  and 10:26 am (assumes October 31st).

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b105/rawalsh/TAR14/commercial/rff-0017-1.jpg)
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: DrRox on February 05, 2009, 11:28:50 AM
Thank you puddin.... :hearts:
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on February 05, 2009, 12:45:24 PM
Thanks slowhatch, I went through the threads seeing if I could find one of Chateau's time computations. My eyes are shot from looking at white buildings and green shutters and wondered if I had missed it....

For you SoCal experts, what do you figure total time from Los Alamitos JFB to ticket counter at LAX,  taking into account Sat morning drive time, time for parking car, and shuttle bus to terminal counters?

Dr. Rox,
Why will they will be on roads? How about on a military helicopter?
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: DrRox on February 05, 2009, 12:51:12 PM
Well it appears to me in the promo that they are running AWAY from the flight line to the parking lot. Also in the promos there are shots of teams in cars going to LAX.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: puddin on February 05, 2009, 01:01:24 PM
Well it appears to me in the promo that they are running AWAY from the flight line to the parking lot. Also in the promos there are shots of teams in cars going to LAX.
I think the discussion starts here  (http://forum.realityfanforum.com/index.php/topic,17788.msg371176.html#msg371176) DrRox..

I'll throw in a little more local knowledge and then I'll shut up.
It all depends on which side of the runway you're on. If you're on the south side, taking Valleyview will dump you directly on the 405 feeder (try routing it from Orangewood next to the Navy golf course and you'll see what I mean). The teams are on the north side; in addition to the longer route, the traffic (weekday mornings, at least) on the north 605 will back up (for miles, sometimes) starting at the I-5 junction. Teams could save time going right instead of left on Katella (and avoid the red-light-camera intersection at Los Alamitos blvd.  :rules:  ;D) and then down Valleyview, but it would be counterintuitive.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: DrRox on February 05, 2009, 01:28:38 PM
AR14 Timeline(revised 2/5):

Nov. 3 leg 2 Interlaken possibly by rail to Zurich, then plane to Salzburg; arrival possibilities mid-morning, mid-afternoon, and late evening
From Interlaken to Salzburg, the early morning Tuesday(as in Nov.4) train schedules are:

dep. Interlaken West 0605 transfer trains in Spiez, Romanschorn, 7 min. walk to ship, ship to Frederichshafen ship terminal, 5 min. walk to Hafen station, 2 min. train to Frederichshafen station, Ulm, then arr. Salzburg 1454 after a 8 hour 53 minute trip OR
dep. Interlaken West 0731 transfer trains in Spiez, Bern, Zurich arr. Salzburg 1529 after a 8 hour 0 minute trip

More likely it will be a 5.5 hour (standard case with no getting lost along the way) self-drive car trip west to east within sight of the Alps all the way to Bertechsgaden

Tasks in Bertechsgaden and Raushberg parasailing.
Pit stop in either Bertechsgaden or Raushberg

Nov. 4 leg 3 tasks in Salzburg
pit stop

Nov. 5 leg 4 depart Salzburg for Bucharest, with several late-night flight options:
through Munich drive back from Salzburg early evening, then LH3424 2130 0025 MUC OTP
through Frankfurt OS269 1830 1950 SGZ FRA connecting to LH3416 2030 0005 FRA OTP

Nov. 6 arrival in Bucharest after midnight; transfer to train to get to Brasov
morning train departures: Bucharest Nord 2358 arr. Brasov 0246  or  dep. 0630 0922  or  dep. 0730 1019  or  dep. 0616 1051(note: nobody would want this) or  0830 1124  or  0942 1254  or  1130 1404
 

According to the blogger in Salzburg, the pit stop on the evening of Nov 3, was the Schloss Hellbrunn in Salzburg, not Berchtesgaden or Raushberg.

According to Romaniafan's post at 2:05:56 am on Nov 5th he had just returned from picking up his friend at "about 12:45 am" and seeing the Amazing Race teams at the airport in Buchrrest. Romaniafan's post is here http://forum.realityfanforum.com/index.php/topic,17788.msg358736.html#msg358736 (http://forum.realityfanforum.com/index.php/topic,17788.msg358736.html#msg358736)

I think you have accidentlally added a day here, because of the confusing midnight arrival. I think teams possibly have some tasks around the Salzburg area on the morning of Nov 4, then make their way to Bucharest, arriving around midnight Nov4-5, not midnight Nov5-6. Your timeline has teams leaving Salzburg on morning of Nov 5, when they have already been seen in Bucharest.

If I am mistaken, my apologies in advance.

Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on February 05, 2009, 02:50:04 PM
Dr. Rox, I can see your point and it looks like you are closer to right than me. I will need to address it.

I must ask you, Where have you been on this date problem? It has been in every timeline since Nov. 16. Why are you raising the issue now? Why not address it in late November?

I can see in the dialogue on timelines that Neobie did raise the issue tangentially months ago. He did not press the issue but if I were more on the ball I would have dealt with it then.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: DrRox on February 05, 2009, 03:26:46 PM
Well, I am still very new at this. I do not have the ability, yet,  to look at the whole race as you experts do. I never noticed it till today as I was filling in my new race "calendar."  If I had noticed it sooner, I would have mentioned it.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on February 05, 2009, 03:36:14 PM
Flights Bangkok to Guangzhou to Guilin for Tueday Nov. 18

You run into some major discontinuities going to Guilin due to no service on somee days and minimal service on some. Essentially, we need to tackle this one backwards looking at Guangzhou (CAN) to Guilin (KWL) first. There are only 2 flights on Nov. 18, Shenzen Air 9637 0740 0845 and Shenzen Air 9669 2110 2225. Due to the near impossiblity of any team getting from Bangkok to Guangzhou in time for the 740am departure(only flights arriving Guanzhou before 2220 the prior evening can do it, we are effectively dealing with the latter. There are are 5 nonstop flights, but three of them leave late enough that they cannot connect even with the 910pm flight. The viable flights are TG668 0950 1330 and MS958 1310 1655.  
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Chateau d If on February 06, 2009, 12:50:09 AM
This shot was taken between 8:08 and 8:20 am (assumes October 31st).

Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: puddin on February 06, 2009, 12:58:51 AM
Thank you Chateau!!!
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: DrRox on February 06, 2009, 02:53:19 AM
Thank you, Chateau!!!!
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on February 06, 2009, 10:30:12 AM
From the timeline, here are the flights already identified as highest probability:

A different route goes LAX to Milan-Malpensa(MXP) as follows: TN022 1145 0845+1 connecting with AF1214 0945+1 1145+1

From LAX to Milan-Linate a similar schedule applies:
TN (Air Tahiti Nui) 022  LAX CDG  1145 0845+1, conecting with  XM5997  CDG LIN 0935+1 1110+1

From LAX to Zurich via Frankfurt we have the interesting combination:
LH457  LAX FRA  1435 1025+1 connecting with LH3726   FRA ZRH  1200 1255

for Milan arrivals, the public transportation schedule is:
Shuttle bus leaves airport  Arrival in Bellinzona at  Connecting train leaves  Arrival in Locarno 
12:30                                           14:20                              14:39                        14:58 

for zurich arrivals, it is:
depart Zurich airport                  13:47 
Zurich HB (main station)             14:09     
Arth-Goldau                                14:52     
Bellinzona                                  16:40
arrive Locarno tain station         17:07 
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Chateau d If on February 06, 2009, 11:00:57 AM
The "Go" is early compared to other known start times.  So, apskip, your LAX to Milan flights leaving at 11:45 am are clear winners.  One or both.  Ordinarily, as in previous TAR seasons,  first flights are in the range of 2 pm.  It looks like about a 2 hour shift to get that flight out of LAX.

I hope this turns out to be true because of the strong difference in the two approaches  to Locarno:  From Zurich vs from Milan.  It's more than just checking to see which flight lands first.  We've had 13 seasons of that lesson.  Now we can graduate to a new one.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: DrRox on February 06, 2009, 01:02:17 PM
I hope it is true,'too. A 4/7 split. I should make for some interesting conversations on the way to LAX. It would appear to me to give an edge to the teams that understand/know the Los Angeles freeway system. Three teams with Los Angeles backgrounds and one from San Diego might just be the 4 breakaways.

Great call on the LAX-Milano connections, apskip. I have not traveled in Europe since the creation of the EU. Just where would these teams clear immigration/customs? Frankfurt or Zurich?  Paris or Milano? What is the procedure over there, these days?
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on February 06, 2009, 01:08:00 PM
AR14 Timeline(revised 2/6):

NOTE: I have made changes for Interlaken through Romania. The net effect of them is to have leg 3 be to Salzburg and legs 4 and 5 be in Romania. I am reissuing this so you can look at the many small changes which are incorporated as well.


Oct. 31 leg 1 depart U.S. for Locarno, Switzerland via Frankfurt and Zurich or via Milan:

LAX to Milan-Malpensa(MXP) as follows: TN022 1145 0845+1 connecting with AF1214 0945+1 1145+1

Here are the bus schedules in the same time frame:
Shuttle bus leaves airport  Arrival in Bellinzona at  Connecting train leaves  Arrival in Locarno 
12:30                                           14:20                              14:39                        14:58 
14:30                                           16:20                              16:39                        16:58 

From LAX to Milan-Linate a similar schedule applies:
TN (Air Tahiti Nui) 022  LAX CDG  1145 0845+1, conecting with  XM5997  CDG LIN 0935+1 1110+1

From LAX to Zurich via Frankfurt we have the interesting combination:
LH457  LAX FRA  1435 1025+1 connecting with LH3726   FRA ZRH  1200 1255

What I find most interesting is the fit LH457/LH3726 has with the observer comments about seeing 7 teams in Frankfurt Airport the morning of Saturday Nov. 1. I expect no other reason to go to Frankfurt except to connect to Zurich. There are 10 nonstop flights on Saturday between Frankfurt and Zurich, so if any are delayed there are alternatives.

The train schedule from Zurich to Bellinzona to Locarno indicates that 3 1/4 hours is required. Here is is:

Train leaves airport Change in  Connecting train leaves  Arrival in Locarno 
11:47  Zurich HB (main station)             12:09     
                                Arth-Goldau           12:52     
                                 Bellinzona             14:40                         15:06 
12:47  Zurich HB (main station)             13:09     
                                 Bellinzona             15:40                         16:06 
13:47  Zurich HB (main station)             14:09     
                              Arth-Goldau             14:52     
                                 Bellinzona             16:40                         17:07 
16:47   Zurich HB(main station)             17:09
                              Bellinzona                19:40                         19:06


It is my belief that AR14 teams used a minimum of 2 flight combinations to get to Locarno. One may be to Milan, another to Zurich directly, and a third to Zurich via Frankfurt.

Nov. 1 arrive mid-morning in Europe and reach Locarno sometime in the afternoon; then tasks; this might be a TBC to allow known timing of next leg, but probably isn't
Nov. 2 Verzasca Dam bungee jump then Locarno to Domodossola to Spiez to Interlaken by train; then tasks in Interlaken
dep. Locarno 1047 arr. Domodossola 1235
dep. Domodossola 1248 arr. Spiez 1353
dep. Spiez 1425 arr. Interlaken West 1454 or dep. Spiez 1432 arr. Interlaken West 1451
total trip is 4 hours train

There is an alternate train route through the Goschenen Tunnel

Interlaken tasks

Nov. 3 leg 2 Interlaken possibly by rail to Zurich, then plane to Salzburg; arrival possibilities mid-morning, mid-afternoon, and late evening
From Interlaken to Salzburg, the early morning Tuesday(as in Nov.4) train schedules are:

dep. Interlaken West 0605 transfer trains in Spiez, Romanschorn, 7 min. walk to ship, ship to Frederichshafen ship terminal, 5 min. walk to Hafen station, 2 min. train to Frederichshafen station, Ulm, then arr. Salzburg 1454 after a 8 hour 53 minute trip OR
dep. Interlaken West 0731 transfer trains in Spiez, Bern, Zurich arr. Salzburg 1529 after a 8 hour 0 minute trip

More likely it will be a 5.5 hour (standard case with no getting lost along the way) self-drive car trip west to east within sight of the Alps all the way to Bertechsgaden

Tasks in Bertechsgaden and Raushberg parasailing.
Evening Pit stop in Salzburg

Nov. 4 leg 3 depart Salzburg for Bucharest, with several late-night flight options:
through Munich drive back from Salzburg early evening, then LH3424 2130 0025 MUC OTP
through Frankfurt OS269 1830 1950 SGZ FRA connecting to LH3416 2030 0005 FRA OTP

Nov. 6 arrival in Bucharest after midnight; transfer to train to get to Brasov
morning train departures: Bucharest Nord 2358 arr. Brasov 0246  or  dep. 0630 0922  or  dep. 0730 1019  or  dep. 0616 1051(note: nobody would want this) or  0830 1124  or  0942 1254  or  1130 1404
Nov. 7 tasks in Brasov
pit stop in Transylvania (includes Brasov)

Nov. 8 leg 5 AR14 Timeline(revised 1/26 exactly 2 months after the prio version):

1.First there is a comment on what happens between Phuket and Guilin. The most obvious possibility is a leg in Bangkok, but if WRP has a "Been there, done that" attitude like me, I want to see somewhere else in southeast Asia next.
2. We haven't a clue on where in India AR14 is going except that air connections through Delhi on to Bangkok and Phuket are probable. We know that you can easily get to Phuket via Singapore alao.


Oct. 31 leg 1 depart U.S. for Locarno, Switzerland via Frankfurt and Zurich or via Milan:
LAX to Milan-Malpensa(MXP) as follows: TN022 1145 0845+1 connecting with AF1214 0945+1 1145+1

Here are the bus schedules in the same time frame:
Shuttle bus leaves airport  Arrival in Bellinzona at  Connecting train leaves  Arrival in Locarno 
12:30                                           14:20                              14:39                        14:58 
14:30                                           16:20                              16:39                        16:58 

From LAX to Milan-Linate a similar schedule applies:
TN (Air Tahiti Nui) 022  LAX CDG  1145 0845+1, conecting with  XM5997  CDG LIN 0935+1 1110+1

From LAX to Zurich via Frankfurt we have the interesting combination:
LH457  LAX FRA  1435 1025+1 connecting with LH3726   FRA ZRH  1200 1255

Note: some of those above are too early to get if the taditional Amazing Race start timing holds.

What I find most interesting is the fit LH457/LH3726 has with the observer comments about seeing 7 teams in Frankfurt Airport the morning of Saturday Nov. 1. I expect no other reason to go to Frankfurt except to connect to Zurich. There are 10 nonstop flights on Saturday between Frankfurt and Zurich, so if any are delayed there are alternatives.

The train schedule from Zurich to Bellinzona to Locarno indicates that 3 1/4 hours is required. Here is is:

Train leaves airport Change in  Connecting train leaves  Arrival in Locarno 
11:47  Zurich HB (main station)             12:09     
                                Arth-Goldau           12:52     
                                 Bellinzona             14:40                         15:06 
12:47  Zurich HB (main station)             13:09     
                                 Bellinzona             15:40                         16:06 
13:47  Zurich HB (main station)             14:09     
                              Arth-Goldau             14:52     
                                 Bellinzona             16:40                         17:07 
16:47   Zurich HB(main station)             17:09
                              Bellinzona                19:40                         19:06


It is my belief that AR14 teams used a minimum of 2 flight combinations to get to Locarno. One may be to Milan, another to Zurich directly, and a third to Zurich via Frankfurt.

Nov. 1 arrive mid-morning in Europe and reach Locarno sometime in the afternoon; then tasks; this might be a TBC to allow known timing of next leg, but probably isn't in which case we have a pit stop

Nov. 2 leg 2 Locarno to Domodossola to Spiez to Interlaken by train; then tasks in Interlaken
dep. Locarno 1047 arr. Domodossola 1235
dep. Domodossola 1248 arr. Spiez 1353
dep. Spiez 1425 arr. Interlaken West 1454 or dep. Spiez 1432 arr. Interlaken West 1451
total trip is 4 hours train

Nov. 3 leg 3 Interlaken probably by rail to Zurich, then plane to Salzburg; arrival possibilities mid-morning, mid-afternoon, and late evening
From Interlaken to Salzburg, the early morning Tuesday(as in Nov.4) train schedules are:

dep. Interlaken West 0605 transfer trains in Spiez, Romanschorn, 7 min. walk to ship, ship to Frederichshafen ship terminal, 5 min. walk to Hafen station, 2 min. train to Frederichshafen station, Ulm, then arr. Salzburg 1454 after a 8 hour 53 minute trip OR
dep. Interlaken West 0731 transfer trains in Spiez, Bern, Zurich arr. Salzburg 1529 after a 8 hour 0 minute trip

Based on the above, it seems more likely that teams flew to Salzburg on Nov. 4. In order to do that the optimal route is to take a train from Interlaken to Bern(somtimes changing first in Spiez) and then change for Bern to Zurich. The trains that fit are:

First train is dep. Interlaken West 522 transfer at Bern, arr. Zurich HB 0728, transfer there to Zurich Airport dep. HB 0746 arr. Airport 0747,  a difficult 23 minute connection to make the first flight below from Zurich airport; see a. below for best flight
Next is dep. Interlaken West 1031 transfer at Bern, arr. Zurich HB 1228 dep.HB 1237 arr. Airport 1246; see b. below for best flight
Last is dep. Interlaken West 1729 transfer at Spiez and Bern, arr. Zurich HB 1928, dep. HB 1937 arr. Airport 1946; see c. below for best flight

At Zurich there are  several nonstop flights to Salzburg, each with a connection from one of the train trips above:

a. C91202/LX4290  0810 0915  ZRH SGZ
b. C91204/Lx4292  1335 1440  ZRH SGZ
c. C91208/LX4294  2040 2145  ZRH SGZ
tasks in Salzburg
pit stop

Nov. 4 leg 4 depart Salzburg for Bucharest, with several late-night flight options:
through Munich drive back form Salzburg early evening, then LH3424 2130 0025 MUC OTP
through Frankfurt OS269 1830 1950 SGZ FRA connecting to LH3416 2030 0005 FRA OTP

Nov. 5 arrival in Bucharest after midnight; transfer to train to get to Brasov
morning train departures: Bucharest Nord 2358 arr. Brasov 0246  or  dep. 0630 0922  or  dep. 0730 1019  or  dep. 0616 1051(note: nobody would want this) or  0830 1124  or  0942 1254  or  1130 1404
tasks in Brasov area, ending with either a TBC or normal pitstop

Nov. 6 more tasks in Transylvania plus possibly Bucharest

Nov. 7 pit stop somewhere in Romania

Nov. 8 leg 5 get to Bucharest if not already there
leave Transylvania for Krasnojarsk
RO341 Bucharest (OTP)  -  Vienna (VIE)0835 0920,  FV204 Vienna (VIE)  -  St Petersburg (LED) 1050 1530, FV573 St. Petersburg (LED)  -  Krasnojarsk (KJA) 1800 0240+1   OR
LO642  Bucharest (OTP)  -  Warsaw (WAW)1435 1520, LO677 Warsaw (WAW)  -  Moscow (SVO) 1600 2010, SU781 Moscow (SVO)  -  Krasnojarsk (KJA) 0045+1 0910+1   OR
TH1444 Bucharest (OTP)  -  Istanbul (IST) 1050 1215, TK1415 Istanbul (IST)  -  Moscow (SVO) 1335 1740, SU779 Moscow (SVO)  -  Krasnojarsk (KJA) 2055 0540+1

Nov. 9 do tasks and finish with TBC allowing teams to board TransSiberian Express in late afternoon
Here is the schedule from Krasnojarsk to Novosibirsk on a weekday:

Dep.Kr  Arr.No Duration
00:57  14:09  13:12   
02:01  17:27  15:26 
04:10  16:01  11:51   
05:59  20:06  14:07   
06:52  18:51  11:59   
07:18   22:52  15:34     
08:05   21:24  13:19     
10:09   23:55  13:46     
10:36   23:12  12:36     
11:16   00:58  13:42     
12:36   01:12  12:36     
13:51   02:24  12:33     
14:37   04:19  13:42     
15:27   04:33  13:06     
18:26   06:47  12:21     
23:36   12:38  13:02   

My guess is that teams would be ready to leave Krasnojarsk based on a TBC on the 1351, 1437, or 1527 trains.

Nov. 10 leg 6 TransSiberian Express arrival in Novosibirsk
ride on Trans Siberian Express train trip to Novosibirsk
tasks in Novosibirsk, Siberia
pit stop

Nov. 12 leg 7 flights Novosibirsk to Moscow to Delhi, India and on to somewhere in northern India
SU810 Novosibirsk (OVB)  -  Moscow (SVO) 0700 0815, KC872 Moscow (SVO)  -  Almaty (ALA) 0920 1645, KC907 Almaty (ALA)  -  Delhi (DEL) 1805 2115
 then connecting to unknown city in India
tasks
pit stop

Nov. 14 leg 8 leave "somewhere in northern India" to Bangkok

Nov. 15 fly Bangkok to Phuket apparently on TG203 0740 0850, then tasks in Phuket area
pit stop

Nov. 16 leg 9 possibly fly from Phuket to Bangkok
Choices for flights are: TG226 0725 0850, TG1204 0935 1100, PG272 1025 1145, TG1206 1235 1400, TG1214 1355 1520, PPG 276 1350 1510
 
tasks in Bangkok area
pit stop

Nov. 18 leg 10 fly probably form Bangkok to to Guilin
 Shenzen Air 9669 BKK CAN 2110 2225. The viable CAN KWL flights are TG668 0950 1330 and MS958 1310 1655. 
tasks in Guilin area
extended pit stop

Nov. 20 leg 11 Guilin to Beijing flight choices:
CZ3281 0900 1125
CA6312 1145 1435
CZ3287 1710 1950
CA1226 2105 0015

then tasks in Beijing and start regular pitstop

Nov. 21 leg 12 return from Beijing to U.S. for Finish Line in Hawaii via Tokyo
PEK NRT on Air China has several choices:
CA6651/NH956 0845 1305
CA925               0930 1350
CA167               1350 1750

Continuing on from Tokyo-Narita to Honolulu (NRT to HNL), there are 9 choices with departures between 645pm and 10pm. With the 6 hours 45 minute flying team and 5 hour time difference, these flights arrive HNL 0630 to 0950. The most logical choice to me would be UA880 NRT HNL 1925 0710+1. All these are same day due to crossing the International Date Line.

                        Finish Line on which Hawaiian island not known yet although I guess Oahu now for convenience

Note: this is a 22 day race.
 
 
 

Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on February 06, 2009, 01:14:42 PM
I hope it is true,'too. A 4/7 split. I should make for some interesting conversations on the way to LAX. It would appear to me to give an edge to the teams that understand/know the Los Angeles freeway system. Three teams with Los Angeles backgrounds and one from San Diego might just be the 4 breakaways.

Great call on the LAX-Milano connections, apskip. I have not traveled in Europe since the creation of the EU. Just where would these teams clear immigration/customs? Frankfurt or Zurich?  Paris or Milano? What is the procedure over there, these days?

Dr. Rox,
Having cleared customs in the European Union recently, I believe I am qualified to speak on this. You clear customs at your entry p[oint into the European Union. In my case that meant Dusseldorf on the way to Bucharest. On arrival in Bucharest on a flight from within Europe, there was no second customs check. On the way back it was to JFK airport where customs clearance was lengthy due to multiple flights arriving almost sinultaneously mid-afternooon.

For AR14, teams would clear in Paris for any flights arriving there for connection to Milan. For those going to Zurich via Frankfurt, it would be in Frankfurt.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: DrRox on February 06, 2009, 01:40:36 PM
Thank you for the infomation, apskip!!! Sure sounds a lot easier than when I travled over there before the EU.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: georgiapeach on February 06, 2009, 02:52:26 PM
The Beijjing to Tokyo flight for at least some of the teams can be confirmed as CA925/NH5702 0930-1350 on 11/21.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on February 07, 2009, 06:11:16 PM
Dr. Rox,

The current baseline shown earlier in the Timeline above is a 3:41  for the 1042 to 1423 Locarno/Domodossola/Spiez/Interlaken West run.

 If you access http://www.myswissalps.com/swisstimetable.asp?lang=EN you will get the information I indicate below. When you put in Locarno to Luzern starting at 1030, the choices you get are:

Details Station/Stop  Date Time Duration Chg. Travel with
1  Locarno 08.02.09  dep 10:45    3:09  1  IR, S3   
 Luzern    arr 13:54 
  Locarno 08.02.09  dep 10:45 1 
IR 2280  InterRegio,   
 Arth-Goldau  arr 13:06 4 
  Arth-Goldau  dep 13:21 6 
S3 21350  Urban railway, line 3 
 Luzern  arr 13:54 5 
Duration: 3:09; runs daily 
 
2  Locarno 08.02.09  dep 11:03    2:38  1  S20, ICN   
 Luzern    arr 13:41 
Details - Connection 2       
Station/Stop  Date Time Platform Travel with Comments
  Locarno 08.02.09  dep 11:03 3 
S2014238  Urban railway, line 20 
 Bellinzona  arr 11:27 1 
  Bellinzona  dep 11:36 1 
ICN 666  InterCity tilting t,   BZ RZ 
 Luzern  arr 13:41 7 
Duration: 2:38; runs daily 
 
3  Locarno 08.02.09  dep 11:45    2:56  0  IR   
 Luzern    arr 14:41 
Details - Connection 3       
Station/Stop  Date Time Platform Travel with Comments
 
4  Locarno 08.02.09  dep 12:03    2:38  2  S20, CIS, IR
Details - Connection 4       
Station/Stop  Date Time Platform Travel with Comments
  Locarno 08.02.09  dep 12:03 3 
S2014242  Urban railway, line 20 
 Bellinzona  arr 12:27 1 
  Bellinzona  dep 12:36 1 
CIS10016  Cisalpino,     
 Arth-Goldau  arr 14:09 4 
  Arth-Goldau  dep 14:14 5 
IR 2178  InterRegio,   
 Luzern  arr 14:41 7 
Duration: 2:38; runs 8. Feb until 13. Jun 2009 daily 

Then we must connect in Luzern:
Details Station/Stop  Date Time Duration Chg. Travel with
1  Luzern 08.02.09  dep 13:55    2:09  1  IR, IC   
 Interlaken West    arr 16:04 
 
2  Luzern 08.02.09  dep 13:55    2:21  1  IR, BUS   
 Interlaken West, Bahnhof    arr 16:13 
 
3  Luzern 08.02.09  dep 13:57    2:26  2  RE, IC, R   
 Interlaken West    arr 16:23 
 
4 Luzern 08.02.09  dep 14:55 12 
IR 2228  InterRegio,     
 Interlaken Ost  arr 16:55 4 
  Interlaken Ost  dep 17:01 5 
IC 986  InterCity,    BZ RZ 
 Interlaken West  arr 17:04 1 
Duration: 2:09; runs daily 
 
When you combine the two, you get :
Lorano 1045 Luzern 1354 5 hours 9 minutes
Locarono 1103 Luzern 1354 4 hours 51 minutes
Locarno 1145 Luzern 1704 7 hours 19 minutes
Locarno  1203 Luzern 1704 7 hours 1 minute

I believe that you are using non-Sunday timetables, which is not permissible when the date in question is Sunday Nov. 2. If you use Sundays, you will duplicate my results. The only possible conclusion is that the St. Gotthard route via connection in Luzern is NOT competitive by 1 hour 24 minutes longer or more.

EDITOR's NOTE - I discovered I had made an assumption about all such trains going through Bellinzona, but that it not correct. So I redid the entire analysis.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: DrRox on February 07, 2009, 07:31:08 PM
If one was going to use the Gotthard Tunnel on trip from Locarno to Interlaken, I would think they would go Locarno to Bellinzona to Luzern to Interlaken Ost. That routing is 4:51 minutes, an hour longer than the Domodossola/Simplon. Which route a team would take, to me, would depend on when they arrived at the Locarno station. Trains run to Bellinzona about every 30 minutes. Trains run to Domodossola about every 1.5 hours. So if a team just missed the Domodossola/Simplon train, they MIGHT get there sooner using the Bellinzona/Gotthard route and beat a team by 30 minutes that waited the 1.5 hour for the Domodossola/Simplon train.

It just depends on when they get finished bungee jumping and get to the Locarno station. How many times in the past have we seen teams try to shave 10 minutes on a 5,000 mile plane ride? Why wouldnt they try to shave 15-30 minutes on a train ride???

I am not saying it is probably, but I am saying it is possible.

Here are two examples.
1)If a team arrived at the Locarno station at 9 am.
   If they took the next Domodossola/Simplon route, they would arrive in Interlaken at 14:28.

  Station/Stop  Date Time Platform Travel with Comments
  Locarno 15.02.09       
walk  4 min., Y 
 Locarno FART       
  Locarno FART  dep 10:42 FART 
D 40  Fast train,     
 Domodossola  arr 12:30 
  Domodossola  dep 12:48 
CIS 52  Cisalpino,   RE 
 Spiez  arr 13:53 4 
  Spiez  dep 14:05 2 
R 5724  Regio 
 Interlaken Ost  arr 14:28
Duration: 3:50; runs daily 
 
 If they took the next Bellinzona/Gotthard route, they would arrive in Interlaken at 13:55.

Station/Stop  Date Time Platform Travel with Comments
  Locarno 15.02.09  dep 09:03 3 
S2014230  Urban railway, line 20 
 Bellinzona  arr 09:27 1 
  Bellinzona  dep 09:36 1 
ICN 662  InterCity tilting t,   BZ RZ 
 Luzern  arr 11:41 7 
  Luzern  dep 11:55 12 
IR 2222  InterRegio 
 Interlaken Ost  arr 13:55
Duration: 4:52; runs daily 

2)If they arrived at Locarno station at 10:48, one minute after the 10:47 left. I used your 10:47 time for departure, but my shedule says 10:42.

   If they took the next Domodossola/Simplon route, they would arrive in Interlaken at 15:57.

Details - Connection 4       
Station/Stop  Date Time Platform Travel with Comments
  Locarno 15.02.09       
walk  4 min., Y 
 Locarno FART       
  Locarno FART  dep 12:13 FART 
D 50  Fast train,     
 Domodossola  arr 13:56 
  Domodossola  dep 14:10 
CIS 122  Cisalpino CISALPINO MONTE ROSA,   RE 
 Brig  arr 14:40 1 
  Brig  dep 14:49 3 
IC 831  InterCity,     BZ RZ 
 Spiez  arr 15:24 4 
  Spiez  dep 15:33 1 
ICE 375  InterCityExpress,   RE 
 Interlaken Ost  arr 15:57
Duration: 3:48; runs daily 
 
If they took the next Bellinzona/Gotthard route, they would arrive in Interlaken at 15:55.

  Station/Stop  Date Time Platform Travel with Comments
  Locarno 15.02.09  dep 11:03 3 
S2014238  Urban railway, line 20 
 Bellinzona  arr 11:27 1 
  Bellinzona  dep 11:36 1 
ICN 666  InterCity tilting t,   BZ RZ 
 Luzern  arr 13:41 7 
  Luzern  dep 13:55 12 
IR 2226  InterRegio 
 Interlaken Ost  arr 15:55
Duration: 4:52; runs daily

I don't think I have ever said that EVERY connection through the Gotthard Rail Tunnel was faster. They are not, but some are. And that makes them a possibility.

Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on February 13, 2009, 03:57:02 AM
Much thanks to walkingpneumonia for finding Chiasso! And everything changes after finding out Preston/Jennifer miss their train!

The first shot of Jennifer looking at the train shows them on Platform 7. The train coming in would be IR172, a direct from Milan to Bellinzona. If the couple get on this (I don't know if the IR172 is considered a TiLo train!), they'd be taking:
IR172 from Chiasso to Bellinzona, 1700-1750
IR2177 from Bellinzona to Locarno, 1754-1813

Why are they in Chiasso in the first place? Could they have been trying to make this impossible connection?
R10860 from Milan to Chiasso, 1538-1643
S20 from Chiasso to Giubiasco, 1633-1726
Giubiasso to Locarno, 1734-1757

The sane connections don't pass through Chiasso in the first place. So the big question is, what train did they miss?



Since Preston/Jennifer caught (or barely missed) IR172, which leaves Milan Central at 4.10pm, their flight would have landed before 3pm. There's a possibility that they could have gone Los Angeles > Frankfurt > Milan, sharing the Los Angeles > Frankfurt flight with the other seven teams, but that would confuse the hell out of the racers and the audience. Other than that, teams can only connect through Paris, of which Apskip has provided an example.

TN22 from Los Angeles to Paris: 1145-0845, then
AF1214 from Paris to Milan Malpensa: 0945-1145 or
XM5997 from Paris to Milan Linate: 0935-1110

But that'd probably put the racers in Milan way too early. May I propose:
AF75 from Los Angeles to Paris: 1500-1030, then
AF9806 from Paris to Milan Malpensa: 1125-1305 or
AF1714 from Paris to Milan Malpensa: 1320-1450

This keeps racers on the same airline (and a major flag carrier, as opposed to Tahiti Nui), which would make buying tickets easier, cheaper and explaining to the audience simpler. Remember TPTB buys the tickets for the first leg!

Or if mayhem is what TPTB wants:
LH457 from Los Angeles to Frankfurt: 1435-1025 (flight also connecting to Zurich)
LH3886 from Frankfurt to Milan Malpensa: 1215-1325



The Zurich teams are landing at 12.55pm, 2.00pm if they take a later connection. If they make it to Zurich Central by 2.09pm they could arrive in Locarno by 4.57pm. Depart Zurich 3.09pm, and arrive Locarno 5.57pm. Miss that and it's depart Zurich 4.09pm, arrive Locarno 6.57pm.

Now if Preston/Jennifer miss their train and still arrive in Locarno at 6.13pm, everything is up for grabs!

Hmm, interesting! It doesn't matter whether you come in through Milan or Zurich, it depends on how long you take to get out of the airport. If you hustle you'd make it ahead, delay and you're pretty much dead!
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: DrRox on February 13, 2009, 05:06:33 PM
TN22 from Los Angeles to Paris: 1145-0845, then
AF1214 from Paris to Milan Malpensa: 0945-1145 or
XM5997 from Paris to Milan Linate: 0935-1110

I just loved this connection from apskip. I thought it might make for a 4/7 split and let 7 teams fight it out for last place. Seems that TAR always does the opposite and splits them 7/4 and leave 4 teams as Tail End Charlies. One thing that bothered me about this flight posibility, was the short connection time. I haven't ever been to CDG. Could a team land on TN22 in Termainal 2A/2B, clear customs and make a connecting flight in Terminal 2F in that amount of time? 60 minutes for AF1214 and 50 minutes for XM5997.

Since we have seen Preston/Jennifer in Italy at almost 5 pm, this flight connections seem much more likely as Neobie has found for us.

AF75 from Los Angeles to Paris: 1500-1030 (arrives in Terminal 2E), then
AF9806 from Paris to Milan Malpensa: 1125-1305 (actually a codeshare with Alitalia operating, leaving Terminal 2F) or
AF1714 from Paris to Milan Malpensa: 1320-1450 (leaves from Terminal 2F)

Again almost the same problem. Could a team land on AF75 at Terminal 2E, clear customs and make a departing flight in Terminal 2F in 55 minutes for the AF9806 flight to Milano. I dont see the codeshare being a problem, just the time frame.

AF1714 seems like the best fit for me, though a 2h 50 min layover might be a little long.  At least they should be able to make it. Seats in the back might just make a team miss the train out of the airport and put them on next best train connection to Locarno.

Anyone fly in/out of CDG and maybe comment on the connection times there?


Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Chateau d If on February 13, 2009, 06:24:12 PM
In 2003, I flew LAX to Málaga with the connection at CDG.  We did the customs stuff in Málaga.  The connection at CDG was the usual 60 minute kind.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on February 13, 2009, 06:49:08 PM
Not recently, but when I transferred at CDG years ago I had a "normal experience". However, let's consult the "oracle" on such matters, the official inter-alrines connect times for CDG

Connecting time
• When booking your ticket, mind a minimum connecting time (security measures + transfer between the terminals).
60 minutes intra Terminals 1/2/3
75 minutes between Terminals 1 and 2
75 minutes between Terminals 1/2 and Terminal 3

Note that most boarding gates close 10 minutes prior to departure.
Pre-boarding security screening will require additional 10-15 minutes especially during peak hours.

So the answer is that we cannot tell which terminals were used to arrive and depart, so we cannot tell whether it was an inside one terminal transfer which is within the 60 minute standard.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on February 13, 2009, 07:43:38 PM
The CBS super-spoiler map (boo!) has given us two legs in Beijing, so may I propose this schedule for the last third of the race:

Flight specifics are left out unless they differ from Apskip's timetable upthread! This timeline only serves to fill in the missing dates (or correct one or two dates) in Apskip's full version, and mostly help us figure out whether teams take air or land transport. (Remember, less airports!)

15 Nov Sat
Flight from Bangkok to Phuket, 7.30am to 8.50am
Phuket Zoo opens at 8.30am before racers arrive
Other tasks in Phuket
Sightings in Suan Luam at 3-4pm
Pit Stop 7 (Phuket) from early evening to next morning

16 Nov Sun
Bus or plane from Phuket to Bangkok
If by plane, teams can arrive by 8.50am
If by bus, teams can only arrive after 6.30pm
Tasks in Bangkok
Pit Stop 8 (Bangkok) times vary accordingly (see below)

17 Nov Mon
Flight from Bangkok to Guilin, best flights are:
TG662 (0110-0625) / MU5379 (0940-1210) through Shanghai
FD3600 (0700-1030) / NX192 (1245-1410) through Macau
TG668 (0950-1330) / CZ3236 (1540-1640) through Guangzhou
TG664 (1035-1550) / MU5381 (1815-2045) through Shanghai
EK384 (1320-1710) / CZ3032 (1935-2050) through Hong Kong
ET606 (1430-1830) / CZ3303 (2030-2130) through Guangzhou

Munoz brothers are still stuck in Guangzhou at night, suggesting they miss the first five options and depart from the Pit Stop earliest late in the morning. Assuming no strange Pit Stop extensions, that suggests teams finish the Bangkok leg in the evening, adding weight to the possibility of a bus ride from Phuket.

Tasks in Guilin until late at night
Pit Stop 9 (Guilin), with arrivals lasting until 3am

18 Nov Tue
Extra day, choose any of the following delay tactics:
A) Extended Pit Stop in Guilin, departures early afternoon 19th
B) Hours of Operation in Beijing in the late afternoon
C) Sadistic producers send teams on a full day's train ride to Beijing:
K158 (0206-0610), T6 (1418-1209), T190 (1607-1455), K22 (1920-2157)

19 Nov Tue
Train or plane from Guilin to Beijing
Tasks in Beijing
Pit Stop 10 (Beijing)

20 Nov Thr
Tasks in Beijing
Pit Stop 11 (Beijing), with two teams checking in before 9.30pm, most likely way earlier
Regular Pit Stop, since Phil doesn't get a headstart to Hawaii

21 Nov Fri
Flight from Beijing to Tokyo, with one confirmed flight going 9.30am to 1.50pm
Flight from Tokyo to Honolulu, early evening

21 Nov Fri, again
Arrival in Honolulu in early morning
Possible charter flight delay to give Phil headstart
Race finishes (Maui) in afternoon
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on February 13, 2009, 08:44:03 PM
Neobie, very interesting. How do you know the race finishes in Maui?
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on February 13, 2009, 08:51:09 PM
I have investigated further and discovered this:

Tahiti Nui and Air France are both in Terminal 2A

Lufthansa to Lufthansa is only in Terminal 1

if to Linate, then Tahiti Nui in Terminal 2A and Alitalia in terminal 2C


All of these should cause a connection booking standard of 60 minutes. However, they do not guarantee the flights landing in time for that connection.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: georgiapeach on February 13, 2009, 08:54:27 PM


Neobie, very interesting. How do you know the race finishes in Maui?

Because CBS has done it again!  :groan: 

Of course, they heard MOST of it here first, :lol3:

http://forum.realityfanforum.com/index.php/topic,17805.msg375693.html#msg375693

Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: georgiapeach on February 13, 2009, 09:00:24 PM
I have spent a lot of time transiting CDG. That airport is one of my least favorites and can frequently be hell. Lines are a nightmare, security can be overwhelmed, gate are swarming with far more people than there is space. Many gates require taking an overworked bus/shuttle from the terminal to the plane. Delays are common.

I would easily want twice as much time as is stated.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on February 13, 2009, 09:17:27 PM
Mayber someone else has pointed this out (if so I missed it) but Jaipur, seen in the Amazing Race 1 episode 8 (the DETOUR Elephant or Rowaboat) is a pit stop for AR14. I will have flights shortly.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: DrRox on February 13, 2009, 09:19:18 PM
Well if Preston/Jennifer made the quick connections, why are they still in Italy at 5 pm......thats the clincher to me.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on February 13, 2009, 09:58:08 PM
While waiting for Apskip to help us with the flights...

Investigating the Jaipur Pit Stop

Quick recap:
Phil left Delhi in the late evening of Thr 13 Nov, and arrives in Phuket on the morning of Fri 14 Nov.
Teams left Bangkok for Phuket on the morning of Sat 15 Nov.

The last team to check in at Jaipur arrives after 6.00am, Thr 13 Nov.
9W373 (0900-0945) flies from Jaipur to Delhi, and TG324 (1155-1725) from Delhi to Bangkok. This combination could get Phil into Phuket in the evening of Thr 13 Nov, but Phil arrives too late at the airport to catch it.
The last team to check in at Jaipur arrives before 8.30pm, Thr 13 Nov.
The latest Phil could have left Jaipur is on IT612 from Jaipur to Delhi (2130-2210), which connects to 9W64 from Delhi to Bangkok (0100-0655).

Teams check out of Jaipur after 12.30am, Fri 14 Nov.
If leaving Jaipur by plane, teams departing the next day also arrive too late at the airport to catch the 9W373/TG324 combination.
If teams leave for Delhi by bus, they'd have to catch the last bus at 12.30am for hopes of catching TG324.
If teams leave for Delhi by train, they'd have to leave Jaipur by 5.30am.
Teams check out of Jaipur before 8.30pm, Fri 14 Nov.
Teams need to arrive in Bangkok before 7.30am for the flight to Phuket. The latest they can leave Jaipur (same as Phil for the previous day) is at 9.30pm.

A 36-hour Pit Stop means teams checked in in the range of 6am to 8.30am, which doesn't sound very plausible. Assuming a 12-hour Pit Stop, teams checked in between 12.30pm and 8.30pm on Thr 13 Nov.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on February 13, 2009, 10:02:57 PM
There are 5 nonstop flights from Delhi to Jaipur on Thursdays (like Nov. 13 with enough flex to accommodate teams lagging far behind). They are:

9W709 0545 0630
AI9896/IC896 0605 0645
IC7809 0700 0755
IT611 0930 1010
IT 2302 1930 2030

From Jaipur to Phuket late on Fridays (like Nov. 14 with enough flex to accommodate teams laging far behind):

IC612  JAI BOM  0735 0910  connecting TG340  BOM BKK  1230 1815  connecting  TG227  BKK HKT  1915 2035
IT612  JAI DEL  1950 2030  connecting  SQ407  DEL SIN  2315 0715  connecting  SQ5052  SIN HKT  0850 0935
IT2301  JAI DEL  0550 0650  connecting  TG324  DEL BKK  1155 1725  connecting to  TG223  BKK HKT  1820 1940
9W372  JAI BOM  2040 2220  connecting  9W062  BOM BKK  0155 0740  connecting  PG924  BKK HKT  1145 1305
IT3128  JAI BOM  1415 1600  connecting   AI442 BOM SIN 0010 0750  connecting  MI752  SIN HKT  0850 0935
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on February 13, 2009, 10:11:30 PM
AR14 Timeline(revised 2/13):

Oct. 31 leg 1 depart U.S. for Locarno, Switzerland via Frankfurt and Zurich or via Milan:

LAX to Milan-Malpensa(MXP) as follows: AF75 LAX CDG 1600 0930+1, connecting with AF4806 CDG MXP 1125+1 1305+1     
Here are the schedules in the same time frame:
take taxi to Milan Central Station, dep.Milan Central Station 1510  Arrival in Lugano 1609, Connecting train leaves 1612 Arrival in Bellinzona 1634, connecting train leave 1654 arrives Locarno 1713
 
From LAX to Zurich via Frankfurt we have the interesting combination:
LH457  LAX FRA  1535 1025+1 connecting with LH3726   FRA ZRH  1200 1255

There are 10 nonstop flights on Saturday between Frankfurt and Zurich, so if any are delayed there are alternatives.

The train schedule from Zurich to Bellinzona to Locarno indicates that 3 1/4 hours is required. Here it is:
de.Zurich 1402 arrive Arth-Goldau 1446 dep. 1448 arr. Bellinzona 1623 dep. 1630 arrive Locarno 1657

Nov. 1 arrive mid-morning in Europe and reach Locarn late afternoon afternoon; then sign up for 0715, 0730 or 0745am departures; then sleep overnight;
Nov. 2 Verzasca Dam bungee jump then Locarno to Domodossola to Spiez to Interlaken by train;
schedule for a leading team:
dep. Locarno 0903 arr. Bellinzona 0927
dep. Bellnizona 0936 arr. Lucerne 1141 via the St. Gotthard Tunnel
dep. Lucerne 1155 arr. Interlaken Ost 1355
this is nearly a 5 hour trip;

schedule for good train (taken by Brad/Victoria and lagging teams get there in time to take it):
dep. Locarno 1042 arr. Domodossola 1230
dep. Domodossola 1248 arr. Spiez 1353
dep. Spiez 1403 arr. Interlaken West 1423
total trip is 4 hours train;
other teams go earlier and get there slightly earlier(except for Christie/Jodi who get a circuitous route 1 1/4 hours hours earlier but arrive later or teams that are behind Brad/Victoria);

Interlaken tasks;
Interlaken area (Stechelberg) pit stop

Nov. 3 leg 2 Interlaken by tasi directl to Zurich airport, then plane to Salzburg:
 
From Interlaken to Munich, the early morning Monday(as in Nov.3) flights are:
LX1100 ZRH MUC 0710 0815
LX3616 ZRH MUC 0845 0945

then self-drive less than an hour to Ruhpolding
Tasks in Raushberg near Ruhpolding parasailing, 25 mile drive to Schnoau am Kongisee for tasks, then
Evening Extedned 18 hour Pit stop in Salzburg at Schloss Hellbrunn

Nov. 4  begin leg 3;
Salzburg to Bucharest, with several evening flight options, including:
through Munich drive back from Salzburg early evening, then LH3424 2130 0025 MUC OTP
through Frankfurt OS269 1830 1950 SGZ FRA connecting to LH3416 2030 0005 FRA OTP

Nov. 5 arrival in Bucharest after midnight; transfer to train to get to Brasov
morning train departures: Bucharest Nord 2358 arr. Brasov 0246  or  dep. 0630 0922  or  dep. 0730 1019  or  dep. 0616 1051(note: nobody would want this) or  0830 1124  or  0942 1254  or  1130 1404

tasks in Brasov and nearby Transylvania
extended pit stop in Transylvania (includes Brasov)

Nov. 7 leg 4  leave Transylvania for Krasnojarsk, Siberia
get to Bucharest if not already there
RO341 Bucharest (OTP)  -  Vienna (VIE)0835 0920,  FV204 Vienna (VIE)  -  St Petersburg (LED) 1050 1530, FV573 St. Petersburg (LED)  -  Krasnojarsk (KJA) 1800 0240+1   OR
LO642  Bucharest (OTP)  -  Warsaw (WAW)1435 1520, LO677 Warsaw (WAW)  -  Moscow (SVO) 1600 2010, SU781 Moscow (SVO)  -  Krasnojarsk (KJA) 0045+1 0910+1   OR
TH1444 Bucharest (OTP)  -  Istanbul (IST) 1050 1215, TK1415 Istanbul (IST)  -  Moscow (SVO) 1335 1740, SU779 Moscow (SVO)  -  Krasnojarsk (KJA) 2055 0540+1

Nov. 8 do tasks and finish with TBC;
leg 5 begins allowing teams to board TransSiberian Express in late afternoon
Here is the schedule from Krasnojarsk to Novosibirsk on a weekday:

Dep.Kr  Arr.No Duration
00:57  14:09  13:12   
02:01  17:27  15:26 
04:10  16:01  11:51   
05:59  20:06  14:07   
06:52  18:51  11:59   
07:18   22:52  15:34     
08:05   21:24  13:19     
10:09   23:55  13:46     
10:36   23:12  12:36     
11:16   00:58  13:42     
12:36   01:12  12:36     
13:51   02:24  12:33     
14:37   04:19  13:42     
15:27   04:33  13:06     
18:26   06:47  12:21     
23:36   12:38  13:02   

My guess is that teams would be ready to leave Krasnojarsk based on a TBC on the 1351, 1437, or 1527 trains.

Nov. 10 TransSiberian Express arrival in Novosibirsk
ride on Trans Siberian Express train trip to Novosibirsk
tasks in Novosibirsk, Siberia
pit stop

Nov. 12 leg 6 flights Novosibirsk to Moscow to Delhi, India and on to somewhere in northern India
SU810 Novosibirsk (OVB)  -  Moscow (SVO) 0700 0815, KC872 Moscow (SVO)  -  Almaty (ALA) 0920 1645, KC907 Almaty (ALA)  -  Delhi (DEL) 1805 2115
 then connecting to Jaipur India

There are 5 nonstop flights from Delhi to Jaipur on Thursdays (like Nov. 13 with enough flex to accommodate teams lagging far behind). They are:

9W709 0545 0630
AI9896/IC896 0605 0645
IC7809 0700 0755
IT611 0930 1010
IT 2302 1930 2030

tasks in Jaipur area
pit stop

Nov. 14 leg 7 Fly Jaipur to Phuket
From Jaipur to Phuket late on Fridays with enough flex to accommodate teams laging far behind:

IC612  JAI BOM  0735 0910  connecting TG340  BOM BKK  1230 1815  connecting  TG227  BKK HKT  1915 2035
IT612  JAI DEL  1950 2030  connecting  SQ407  DEL SIN  2315 0715+1  connecting  SQ5052  SIN HKT  0850+1 0935+1
IT2301  JAI DEL  0550 0650  connecting  TG324  DEL BKK  1155 1725  connecting to  TG223  BKK HKT  1820 1940
9W372 JAI BOM  2040 2220 connecting 9W062  BOM BKK  0155+1 0740+1  connecting  PG924  BKK HKT  1145+1 1305+1
IT3128  JAI BOM  1415 1600  connecting   AI442 BOM SIN 0010+1 0750+1  connecting  MI752  SIN HKT  0850+1 0935+1

Nov. 15 see above
Phhuket area tasks
pit stop

Nov. 16 leg 8 fly from Phuket to Bangkok
Choices for flights are: TG226 0725 0850, TG1204 0935 1100, PG272 1025 1145, TG1206 1235 1400, TG1214 1355 1520, PPG 276 1350 1510
 
tasks in Bangkok area
pit stop

Nov. 18 leg 9 fly from Bangkok to to Guilin
 Shenzen Air 9669 BKK CAN 2110 2225. The viable CAN KWL flights are TG668 0950 1330 and MS958 1310 1655. 
tasks in Guilin area
extended pit stop

Nov. 20 leg 10 Guilin to Beijing flight choices:
CZ3281 0900 1125
CA6312 1145 1435
CZ3287 1710 1950
CA1226 2105 0015

then tasks in Beijing and start TBC

Nov. 21 leg 11 do TBC leg with pitstop before midnight

leg 12 return from Beijing to U.S. for Finish Line in Hawaii via Tokyo
PEK NRT on Air China has several choices:
CA6651/NH956 0845 1305
CA925               0930 1350
CA167               1350 1750

Continuing on from Tokyo-Narita to Honolulu (NRT to HNL), there are 9 choices with departures between 645pm and 10pm. With the 6 hours 45 minute flying team and 5 hour time difference, these flights arrive HNL 0630 to 0950. The most logical choice to me would be UA880 NRT HNL 1925 0710+1. All these are same day due to crossing the International Date Line.

Finish Line on Maui, so teams will take a 36 or 37 minute flight Honolulu to Kahului. There is at least one every hour from 5am to 9pm and several in some hours.
tasks
Finish Line

Note: this is a 22 day race.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on February 14, 2009, 01:35:32 PM
Here's another option for getting to Bellinzona if you land in Malpensa. The MalpensaExpress is a train that runs from the airport to Saronno and the central train station in Milan.

Doesn't explain Chiasso unless you mess up the transfer between the Como stations...

That's it, Walkingpneumonia! That's how Preston/Jennifer miss their train! Working backwards from when they're stuck in Chiasso gives us a schedule a little later than the one you posted on the Ep 1 thread...

The train pulling into Chiasso Platform 7 at 4.52pm can only be EC172. Preston/Jennifer get on this train.

The quickest way to get between Malpensa Airport and Locarno, from 1.24pm to 2.23pm:
Malpensa Express to Saronno, 1353 to 1413 or 1423 to 1443
R149 to Como Camerlata, 1504 to 1532
Change to Albate-Camerlata or Como S Giovanni
S10 to Giubiasco, 1550 (AC) / 1555 (CSG) to 1656 OR
S20 to Locarno, 1704 to 1727

There's an alternative route on the 1.53pm Malpensa Express through the city getting into Locarno at 1713. However, it involves the tricky transfer between Milano Cadorna and Milano Centrale stations, which doesn't pop up on electronic searches.

Preston/Jennifer mess up the connection and end up:
Arrive in Albate-Camerlata after 1550 or Como S Giovanni after 1555
R10860 to Chiasso, 1632 (AC) / 1638 (CSG) to 1643
EC172 to Bellinzona, 1700 to 1750 (train in previews)
IR2177 to Locarno, 1754 to 1813

The couple loses 46 minutes to this mistake.
It is likely that they "check-in" at the Locarno semi-Pit Stop last.


All this means that teams are ready to leave Malpensa Airport from between 1.24pm to 2.23pm. Any earlier and there would be a better route, any later and Preston/Jennifer won't be in Chiasso at 4.52pm. That suggests the Milan 4's flight was:
TN22 or AF75 from Los Angeles to Paris: 1145-0845 or 1500-1030, then
AZ307/AF9806 from Paris to Milan Malpensa: 1125-1305

So it looks like teams have the choice of arriving in Zurich at 12.55pm or Milan at 1.05pm. Malpensa is 60km (37 miles) from Locarno, Zurich 146km (91 miles). Given it took us bloody forever to figure out the best routes to Locarno, what would you do?

:spoiler:
Correct answer: Zurich will get you into Locarno at 4.57pm if you don't mess anything up. Milan gets you in at 5.27pm. However, if it's a later connection arriving in Zurich at 2pm, you'd arrive in Locarno at 5.57pm. Preston/Jennifer's mistake will put them at the back of the pack, arriving in Locarno at 6.13pm.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on February 15, 2009, 11:11:22 PM
Most teams are too lazy to do some research eh? With the long wait in LAX and with other teams clueless as to which route to take, surely you could find the train schedules online? Well, same thing with the train routes for Days 2 and 3, simply hopping on the direct trains and the trains leaving earlier. Lazy racers! (LaKisha/Jennifer get half a point for finding out Milan's closer to Locarno. But no cookie!)



From Los Angeles to Europe

We got the flights, but I messed up on Summer Time again. Departure times from Los Angeles are one hour later than what we listed; arrival times in Europe are as predicted.

Tammy/Victor, Christie/Jodi, Jamie/Cara, Mark/Michael, Brad/Victoria, Margie/Luke
LH457 to Frankfurt, 3.55pm to 10.25am
LH3726 to Zurich, 12.00pm to 12.55pm

LaKisha/Jennifer, Mel/Mike, Amanda/Kris, Preston/Jennifer, Steve/Linda
AF75 to Paris: 4.00pm to 10.30pm
AF1714 to Milan: 1.20pm to 2:50pm (edited to a later flight, AF75 was delayed by an hour; thanks Puck71!)



From Zurich Airport to Locarno

Only Jodi/Christie picked up on our predicted fastest route. The other racers change trains two times less, but arrive 15min later. (Jodi/Christie say they'd arrive 13min earlier, which works if they rounded the 4.57pm arrival to a 5.00pm arrival.)

Tammy/Victor, Jamie/Cara, Mark/Michael, Brad/Victoria, Margie/Luke (Fr 61 = US$60)
IR2343 to Zurich Central, 1.47pm to 1.59pm
IR2275 to Locarno, 2.09pm to 5.13pm

And those sneaky editors - putting in Fluelen for Goldau! Jodi/Christie had already got off and changed trains three stops before. Here's (http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/ch/SBB_CFF_FFS/station/Arth-Goldau/050724-033.jpg) a picture of Goldau Station, which matches what we see as Jodi/Christie sneak off.

Jodi/Christie (Fr 61 = US$60)
IR2275 to Goldau, 2.09pm to 2.46pm
ICN679 to Bellinzona, 2.50pm to 4.23pm
S20 to Locano, 4.30pm to 4.57pm



From Milan Malpensa Airport to Locarno

Amanda/Kris are seen entering a train station at 3.25pm. Jennifer/Preston are waiting in Chiasso at 4.50pm.

LaKisha/Jennifer, Mel/Mike, Amanda/Kris, Steve/Linda
Malpensa Airport to Chiasso Station
S10 to Giubiasco, 4.03pm to 4.56pm
S20 to Locarno, 5.04pm to 5.27pm

Jennifer/Preston (Fr 24 = US$20)
Malpensa Airport to Chiasso Station
EC172 to Bellinzona, 5.00pm to 5.50pm
IR2177 to Locarno, 5.54pm to 6.13pm



From Locarno to Interlaken

The time-stamps show us that each bungee take about 8 minutes. Working backwards, we have the first four teams ending by 8.17am. That's just about right for our predicted trains:

Tammy/Victor, Michael/Mark, Mel/Mike, Margie/Luke (Fr 72 = US$61)
S20 to Bellinzona, 9.03am to 9.27am
ICN662 to Luzern, 9.36am to 11.41am
IR 2222 to Interlaken Ost, 11.55am to 1.55pm

Brad/Victoria, Amanda/Chris, Cara/Jamie, Jennifer/Preston, LaKisha/Jennifer, Steve/Linda (Fr 80 = US$68)
D40 to Domodossola, 10.42am to 12.30pm
CIS52 to Spiez, 12.48pm to 1.53pm
R5724 to Interlaken West, 2.05pm to 2.23pm

One thing I didn't account for was teams taking the slow trains...

Jodi/Christie (Fr 72 = US$61)
IR2174 to Luzern, 9.45am to 12.41pm
IR2224 to Interlaken Ost, 12.55pm to 2.55pm



My check-in time predictions!

Luke/Margie, Tammy/Victor, Mark/Michael: 3.27pm
Mike/Mel: 3.33pm
Amanda/Kris: 3.50pm (from Insiders)
LaKisha/Jennifer: 3.52pm
Cara/Jaime, Brad/Victoria, Steve/Linda: 3.52-4.22pm
Jodi/Christie, Jennifer/Preston: 4.22pm
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Slowhatch on February 17, 2009, 09:32:48 AM
Quote
And those sneaky editors - putting in Fluelen for Goldau!
Chiasso and Arth-Goldau signs were available, but only for a few frames: I have to think it was an accident on their part.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Jobby on February 17, 2009, 09:42:22 AM
Quote
Jodi/Christie
IR2174 to Luzern, 9.45am to 12.41pm
IR2224 to Interlaken Ost, 12.55pm to 2.55pm

I can't believe Jodi and Christie made up 30mins of time. They're amazing! Great work and analysis there Neobie!!
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: puddin on February 17, 2009, 10:00:29 PM
Sounds like BVM (http://weblogs.variety.com/season_pass/2009/02/the-amazing-race-the-outcome-for-us-is-a-surprise-every-time.html) confirms 12 legs  :tup:  :yess:

Q. Regarding broadcasting in high-definition, you’ve (Bertram) previously stated that "I don’t think it’s a priority." With the digital transition looming, phasing out of CRTs in favor of LCDs, and the continuous rise in high-def TV sales, do you foresee Amazing Race to ever be shown in high-definition in the future? — Taylor
A. BvM: There’s no reason we shouldn’t do it but right now the equipment is a little cumbersome for us. The battery packs on these cameras are very, very heavy. We have human beings who have to shoot the show 7 days a week, 24 hours a day so there’s a technical aspect. If you’re in one location filming, that’s much easier of course. But we are racing around the world — 40,000 miles in 21 days, shooting 12 (episodes), so there’s a practical aspect to it.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on February 19, 2009, 12:37:59 AM
Ack, forget what I said about teams on the same flight into Munich. Now we know Amanda/Kris took a taxi from Stechelberg "to the airport". If teams head to Bern Airport, they'd be on the same LH3655, flying from 6.45am to 7.50am.

However, if teams are instructed to take the long haul to Zurich Airport (197km by taxi, translating to say 2h 10min), teams could potentially split onto two, even three flights:
LH5063 to 7.10am to 8.15am
LH3739 to 8.45am to 9.45am
LH3741 to 9.30am to 10.30am



On Novosibirsk to Jaipur:

Worked out possible flights from Russia to India, and teams left Novosibirsk after Tue 11 Nov 10.55am, but before Wed 12 Nov 1.20pm. Any earlier and they'd get into Jaipur a full two days ahead of their Pit Stop, any later and they won't make the flight into Bangkok two days later.

The flight connections, which we'd concern ourselves with when we can narrow the timings down a leetle bit more, include crazy itineraries such as (and these are actually the fastest flights at certain times of the week!):
Novosibirsk > Urumqi > Shanghai (change airport) > Hong Kong > Delhi
Novosibirsk > Moscow > Bangkok > Delhi
Novosibirsk > Frankfurt (change airport) > Mumbai > Delhi
Novosibirsk > Moscow > Dubai > Mumbai > Jaipur

(http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gcmap?PATH=ovb-urc-sha-pvg-hkg-del-jai,ovb-dme-bkk-del,ovb-fra-bom-del,dme-dxb-bom-jai)

PS Is Apskip on sabbatical? Missing you already!
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: georgiapeach on February 19, 2009, 01:16:26 AM
apskip is on holiday, back next week!
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: georgiapeach on February 23, 2009, 12:19:44 PM
Okay guys, we need some help! The press releases are saying the first place team is staring down elimination because their plane makes an unexpected landing.

That of course is Victor/Tammy who were substantially in the lead.

What flight would they have taken? Salzburg>>Bucharest

Can we check historical data to see what delay there was?

:ty3:

Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: hakushu8 on February 23, 2009, 07:38:17 PM
But then that extended preview has Brad/Victoria missing a flight in Amsterdam, per Neobie. Hmm... two things to look at, it seems.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Slowhatch on February 23, 2009, 08:05:34 PM
Quote
Can we check historical data to see what delay there was?
Maybe not a delay; I'd guess they gambled (and lost) on making a tight connection time in Schiphol.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: georgiapeach on February 23, 2009, 08:11:42 PM
I was thinking it is V/T's flight that makes the unexpected landing, it says first place team, which B/V were not?

I think B/V 's flight is something else.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on February 23, 2009, 08:38:36 PM
Warning: The following information may adversely affect your viewing pleasure for Episode 3.
(Who knew the Timetables thread could do that?)

Brad and Victoria are in deep doo-doo.

...

This is what they were hoping for:
KL1798 from Munich to Amsterdam: 5.30pm to 7.15pm
KL1361 from Amsterdam to Bucharest: 8.20pm to 12.10am
This combination would get them in 15min ahead of the Bucharest sightings.

(Why we're sure it's KL1798: The next earliest Salzburg-Amsterdam-Bucharest combination requires teams to depart Munich at 9.25am. There's a direct from Munich to Bucharest at 1.20pm that arrives before this combination.)

The problem? KL1798 left 36min late and landed at 8.06pm. The next direct flight to Bucharest is KL1389, leaving at 9.50am and arriving at 1.35pm, 13 hours after the (originally) trailing teams.

Trying to find alternatives now. Frankfurt and Vienna don't look too promising.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: puddin on February 23, 2009, 08:44:10 PM
Hold me peach  :iok :colors :stare
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: georgiapeach on February 23, 2009, 08:47:28 PM
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on February 23, 2009, 09:17:38 PM
Latest news: Brad and Victoria can still save themselves if they move fast, but not too fast!

KL553/RO102 leaves Amsterdam at 9.00pm and arrives in Bucharest at 6.15am, connecting through Cairo. (Brad/Victoria missed the flight leaving at 8.20pm.) That's five hours behind the (previously) trailing teams. If hours of operation and train schedules work to their favour, they may still be able to climb out of that ditch.

MA669/MA856 through Budapest is an even faster flight combination, leaving at 8.30pm and scheduled to arrive at 1.25am, just one hour after our main pack. But God is in the works - the Amsterdam-Budapest gets delayed too, leaving teams with an impossible 11min to connect! The next Budapest-Bucharest flight is MA850 (0740-1005).
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: puddin on February 23, 2009, 09:26:51 PM
Latest news: Brad and Victoria can still save themselves if they move fast, but not too fast!

KL553 leaves Amsterdam for Cairo at 9.00pm, arriving at 2.23am. (They missed the flight leaving at 8.20pm.) RO102 leaves Cairo for Bucharest at 3.25am, arriving in Bucharest at 6.15am, five hours behind the (previously) trailing teams. If hours of operation and train timetables work to their favour, they may be able to climb out of that ditch.

There is an even faster flight combination scheduled to arrive at 1.25am, just one hour after our main pack. Brad and Victoria will have to race to get on MA669 to Budapest (2030-2230), then connect to MA856 to Bucharest (2310-0125). But... the Amsterdam-Budapest flight gets delayed too! It landed at 10.59pm, leaving them 11min to connect. They'd be missing their flight again. °_° The next Budapest-Bucharest flight is MA850 (0740-1005).
I have confidence that they can fight their way back! They are there to win! Thanks Neobie .. now i need a drink :wine: .. and passes a few on .. Cheers!
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on February 23, 2009, 09:31:15 PM
Here's another option for getting to Bellinzona if you land in Malpensa. The MalpensaExpress is a train that runs from the airport to Saronno and the central train station in Milan.

Doesn't explain Chiasso unless you mess up the transfer between the Como stations...

That's it, Walkingpneumonia! That's how Preston/Jennifer miss their train! Working backwards from when they're stuck in Chiasso gives us a schedule a little later than the one you posted on the Ep 1 thread...

The train pulling into Chiasso Platform 7 at 4.52pm can only be EC172. Preston/Jennifer get on this train.

The quickest way to get between Malpensa Airport and Locarno, from 1.24pm to 2.23pm:
Malpensa Express to Saronno, 1353 to 1413 or 1423 to 1443
R149 to Como Camerlata, 1504 to 1532
Change to Albate-Camerlata or Como S Giovanni
S10 to Giubiasco, 1550 (AC) / 1555 (CSG) to 1656 OR
S20 to Locarno, 1704 to 1727

There's an alternative route on the 1.53pm Malpensa Express through the city getting into Locarno at 1713. However, it involves the tricky transfer between Milano Cadorna and Milano Centrale stations, which doesn't pop up on electronic searches.

Preston/Jennifer mess up the connection and end up:
Arrive in Albate-Camerlata after 1550 or Como S Giovanni after 1555
R10860 to Chiasso, 1632 (AC) / 1638 (CSG) to 1643
EC172 to Bellinzona, 1700 to 1750 (train in previews)
IR2177 to Locarno, 1754 to 1813

The couple loses 46 minutes to this mistake.
It is likely that they "check-in" at the Locarno semi-Pit Stop last.


All this means that teams are ready to leave Malpensa Airport from between 1.24pm to 2.23pm. Any earlier and there would be a better route, any later and Preston/Jennifer won't be in Chiasso at 4.52pm. That suggests the Milan 4's flight was:
TN22 or AF75 from Los Angeles to Paris: 1145-0845 or 1500-1030, then
AZ307/AF9806 from Paris to Milan Malpensa: 1125-1305

So it looks like teams have the choice of arriving in Zurich at 12.55pm or Milan at 1.05pm. Malpensa is 60km (37 miles) from Locarno, Zurich 146km (91 miles). Given it took us bloody forever to figure out the best routes to Locarno, what would you do?

:spoiler:
Correct answer: Zurich will get you into Locarno at 4.57pm if you don't mess anything up. Milan gets you in at 5.27pm. However, if it's a later connection arriving in Zurich at 2pm, you'd arrive in Locarno at 5.57pm. Preston/Jennifer's mistake will put them at the back of the pack, arriving in Locarno at 6.13pm.

Neobie, my independent work on flights led me to the same conclusion that you arrived at. The Frankfurt-connecting flight arrived at Zurich at 1255pm and the Paris-connecting flight arrived in MIlan-Malpensa at 155pm.

You are correct on the best schedule from Zurich being arrival in Locarno at 457pm. However, my work shows that you can get to Locarno from Milano-Centrale (which I believe they reach by airport bus and not by train, but it doesn't matter). Here is the schedule:

Milan dep.1510 arr.Lugano 1609 dep.1612 arr.Bellinzona 1634 dep.1654 arr.Locarno 1713

If I had time to research in on the Internet in LAX, I would have picked the flight to Frankfurt/Zurich with the longer train ride because of the gaps in the schedule from Milan. However, no team had time to do that before selecting their flight. Their thinking in episode 1 obviously involved guesswork and second-guessing.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: TARAsia Fan on February 23, 2009, 09:31:22 PM
Those are definitely tight connections. I'm not sure if they continue. But then again, if Amanda & Kris lose their passports ..... There's a lot of if's in this episode!
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on February 23, 2009, 09:41:01 PM
Ack, forget what I said about teams on the same flight into Munich. Now we know Amanda/Kris took a taxi from Stechelberg "to the airport". If teams head to Bern Airport, they'd be on the same LH3655, flying from 6.45am to 7.50am.

However, if teams are instructed to take the long haul to Zurich Airport (197km by taxi, translating to say 2h 10min), teams could potentially split onto two, even three flights:
LH5063 to 7.10am to 8.15am
LH3739 to 8.45am to 9.45am
LH3741 to 9.30am to 10.30am



On Novosibirsk to Jaipur:

Worked out possible flights from Russia to India, and teams left Novosibirsk after Tue 11 Nov 10.55am, but before Wed 12 Nov 1.20pm. Any earlier and they'd get into Jaipur a full two days ahead of their Pit Stop, any later and they won't make the flight into Bangkok two days later.

The flight connections, which we'd concern ourselves with when we can narrow the timings down a leetle bit more, include crazy itineraries such as (and these are actually the fastest flights at certain times of the week!):
Novosibirsk > Urumqi > Shanghai (change airport) > Hong Kong > Delhi
Novosibirsk > Moscow > Bangkok > Delhi
Novosibirsk > Frankfurt (change airport) > Mumbai > Delhi
Novosibirsk > Moscow > Dubai > Mumbai > Jaipur

(http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gcmap?PATH=ovb-urc-sha-pvg-hkg-del-jai,ovb-dme-bkk-del,ovb-fra-bom-del,dme-dxb-bom-jai)

PS Is Apskip on sabbatical? Missing you already!

Apskip is back and has some things to supplement your analyses. First, the episode clearly states that teams got either the 710am flight or the 845am flight to Munich. That can only be from Zurich, so the hypothesis of flying from Bern is out the window.

My analysis of Novosibirsk to Delhi does not find any wealth of alternatives like you do. There is only one way to do this the best:

SU810 Novosibirsk (OVB)  -  Moscow (SVO) 0700 0815,
KC872 Moscow (SVO)  -  Almaty (ALA) 0920 1645,
KC907 Almaty (ALA)  -  Delhi (DEL) 1805 2115
 then connecting to Jaipur India (5 alternatives offerred in Timeline above)

Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: georgiapeach on February 23, 2009, 09:44:22 PM
Forget Siberia apskip, SAVE BRAD AND VICTORIA!!!!
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on February 23, 2009, 09:48:30 PM
Warning: The following information may adversely affect your viewing pleasure for Episode 3.
(Who knew the Timetables thread could do that?)

Brad and Victoria are in deep doo-doo.

...

This is what they were hoping for:
KL1798 from Munich to Amsterdam: 5.30pm to 7.15pm
KL1361 from Amsterdam to Bucharest: 8.20pm to 12.10am
This combination would get them in 15min ahead of the Bucharest sightings.

(Why we're sure it's KL1798: The next earliest Salzburg-Amsterdam-Bucharest combination requires teams to depart Munich at 9.25am. There's a direct from Munich to Bucharest at 1.20pm that arrives before this combination.)

The problem? KL1798 left 36min late and landed at 8.06pm. The next direct flight to Bucharest is KL1389, leaving at 9.50am and arriving at 1.35pm, 13 hours after the (originally) trailing teams.

Trying to find alternatives now. Frankfurt and Vienna don't look too promising.

Huh?. I am not following your logic here. The last possible flight from Salzburg to Bucharest via Vienna is:
OS924 1825 1920 SZG VIE
RO344 1955 2235 VIE OTP

Teams also have this alternative connecting in Franfurt:
OS269 1830 1950 SZG FRA
LH3416 2050  0010+1 FRA OTP

Now, Neobie, please tell me why any team would be foolish enough to consider going through Amsterdam which has an inferior schedule and tight connection? No flights through Amsterdam even appear on my flight information database, although you and I certainly have known about the flights through Amsterdam for a long time.

I don't see it. How do you know that they sent to Amsterdam? Would you do so if you were faced with the same alternatives that they had
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: georgiapeach on February 23, 2009, 09:53:07 PM
We have video of them in Amsterdam apskip, there is a promo.

http://forum.realityfanforum.com/index.php/topic,18377.msg378890.html#msg378890

Neobie matched the airport.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on February 23, 2009, 09:57:13 PM
Peach,
I consider Brad and Victoria along with Margie and Luke to be the most overchieving teams (I expected great things from Tammy and Victor).

I don't know if I have satisfied your mandate to "Save Brad and Victoria". If they did fly to Amsterdam and they arrived late, their goose is cooked unless KLM eelcts to hold the last flight for all connections (this does happen some of the time) or there is an Hours of Operation in Romania. we already know that leading teams catch an early morning train to Brasov and the possiblity of a late morning Hours of Operation in Brasov is pretty low.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Chateau d If on February 23, 2009, 10:08:13 PM
Quote
KL553/RO102 leaves Amsterdam at 9.00pm and arrives in Bucharest at 6.15am, connecting through Cairo. (Brad/Victoria missed the flight leaving at 8.20pm.) That's five hours behind the (previously) trailing teams. If hours of operation and train schedules work to their favour, they may still be able to climb out of that ditch.



Great work Neobie!  It looks like you have a new toy.  ;)
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on February 24, 2009, 09:51:02 AM
Regarding Tammy/Victor: Was looking at flights that are definitively marked as 'cancelled' from Munich, Salzburg, Vienna and Frankfurt, and there are no flights that are included in Tammy/Victor's possible itineraries.

There are a lot of flights which are marked as 'unknown' though, so options are still open (though limited). Also, we see teams on Lufthansa and KLM, but none of the teams are known to be taking TARom, the Romanian flag carrier. Has it been banned (for safety, security, money or what not)?

These are the best flights, throughout the day, from Munich to Bucharest (Apskip has them):
LH3554/OS791 via Vienna: 1100-1335
CL3422: 1320-1615
CL3480: 1525-1825
RO312: 1645-1945 (if TARom is allowed)
(Mel/Mike and Margie/Luke arrive before this line, if clock theory holds)
HG8389/RO344 via Vienna: 1710-2235 (if Niki and TARom are allowed)
KL1798/KL1361 via Amsterdam: 1730-0010 (Brad/Victoria on this flight, for a while)
(LaKisha/Jennifer, Tammy/Victor and Mark/Michael arrive after this line)
LH981/LH3416 via Frankfurt: 1755-0010
LH3276/OK804 via Prague: 1925-0010 (if Czech is allowed)
LH3424: 2130-0025 (Jodi/Christie, maybe Jamie/Cara on this flight)
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: georgiapeach on February 24, 2009, 10:05:57 AM
Here is the actual quote:

Quote
Next On The Amazing Race
 I'm Not Wearing That Girls Leotard! (Romania)
Teams scour the Transylvanian countryside for buried coffins outside of Dracula's castle and a first place team falls to the back of the pack when their plane is forced to make an unexpected landing.


So an unexpected landing suggests an actual airplane issue  (Mechanical? Weather? Passenger emergency?), so I was hoping we could find that data historically.


Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: walkingpneumonia on February 25, 2009, 05:12:24 PM
Here's the train schedule from bucharest to Brasov in the early morning

http://www.infofer.ro/


dep. 5:50 Bucurest Nord arr. Brasov 8:52   dur. 3:02 fast train
dep. 6:13 Bucurest Nord arr. Brasov 10:56  dur. 4:43
dep. 7:30 Bucurest Nord arr. Brasov 10:37  dur. 3:07
dep. 8:30 Bucurest Nord arr. Brasov 11:38  dur  3:08 fast train
dep. 8:45 Bucurest Nord arr. Brasov 11:47  dur. 3:02 fast train
dep. 9:42 Bucurest Nord arr. Brasov 12:49  dur. 3:07


Looks like a team that misses the first train needs to be careful they don't take the 6:13 which gets them there later despite leaving earlier...

there must be a bus they could take that would be faster - but since we see Tammy in a train station I'll assume they take a train. 
:neener:
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: DrRox on February 25, 2009, 06:49:45 PM
For whatever reasons, Brad/Victoria, team #5 ended up in Amsterdam.

I "think" that all the teams have to drive the cars back to Munich International Airport. That is my base assumption at this point in time. I, like a few, thought Salzburg was a perfect place for a morning task before heading to Romania. Now I think they got an extended pit stop with Tammy/Victor release at Noon. Why noon? No reason, just sounds good to me. Other teams are released at same interval they arrived at Schloss Hellbrunn.

I think that, the flight that Tammy/Victor where orginally on, returned to Frankfurt. It's Lufthanza's hub and maintainence base. That would explain why they showed up in Bucharest mixed into the other later teams that are split on either the late night FRA-OTP or MUC-OTP flights.

I think it is entirely possible that Mel/Mike, team #2 and Amanda/Kris, team#3, and Luke/Margie, team#4 got on the same flight to Bucharest. I think, because of the clock, that they are actually doing the gynastics at 9 pm. We do not see Amanda/Kris at the gynastics, so they might not have been on the same flight. If they can complete the gymnastics and get to the train station before 9:30 pm, I think they can make the last night train to Brazov. I think the last train is at 9:30. If so, then there is good chance they are doing the detour in Brazov when other teams are still on the train to Brazov. They are probably held up by an HOH there, while other teams are held up by train schedule in early morning hours in Bucharest.

Missing the flight connection in Amsterdam pretty much dooms Brad/Victoria, team #5, unless they can be helped by the time delays of the other teams for HOH or some other team has a drastic meltdown.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: georgiapeach on February 25, 2009, 07:49:43 PM
Latest preview shows Amanda there, and of course we have the spoiler with multiple teams in the train station at 430 AM.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on February 25, 2009, 08:34:14 PM
For whatever reasons, Brad/Victoria, team #5 ended up in Amsterdam.

I "think" that all the teams have to drive the cars back to Munich International Airport. That is my base assumption at this point in time. I, like a few, thought Salzburg was a perfect place for a morning task before heading to Romania. Now I think they got an extended pit stop with Tammy/Victor release at Noon. Why noon? No reason, just sounds good to me. Other teams are released at same interval they arrived at Schloss Hellbrunn.

I think that, the flight that Tammy/Victor where orginally on, returned to Frankfurt. It's Lufthanza's hub and maintainence base. That would explain why they showed up in Bucharest mixed into the other later teams that are split on either the late night FRA-OTP or MUC-OTP flights.

I think it is entirely possible that Mel/Mike, team #2 and Amanda/Kris, team#3, and Luke/Margie, team#4 got on the same flight to Bucharest. I think, because of the clock, that they are actually doing the gynastics at 9 pm. We do not see Amanda/Kris at the gynastics, so they might not have been on the same flight. If they can complete the gymnastics and get to the train station before 9:30 pm, I think they can make the last night train to Brazov. I think the last train is at 9:30. If so, then there is good chance they are doing the detour in Brazov when other teams are still on the train to Brazov. They are probably held up by an HOH there, while other teams are held up by train schedule in early morning hours in Bucharest.

Missing the flight connection in Amsterdam pretty much dooms Brad/Victoria, team #5, unless they can be helped by the time delays of the other teams for HOH or some other team has a drastic meltdown.

Dr. Rox, the Timeline identifies the last train of each day from Bucharest Nord to Brasov as dep.  Bucharest Nord 2358 arr. Brasov 0246.   
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on February 25, 2009, 08:42:16 PM
Here's the train schedule from bucharest to Brasov in the early morning

http://www.infofer.ro/


dep. 5:50 Bucurest Nord arr. Brasov 8:52   dur. 3:02 fast train
dep. 6:13 Bucurest Nord arr. Brasov 10:56  dur. 4:43
dep. 7:30 Bucurest Nord arr. Brasov 10:37  dur. 3:07
dep. 8:30 Bucurest Nord arr. Brasov 11:38  dur  3:08 fast train
dep. 8:45 Bucurest Nord arr. Brasov 11:47  dur. 3:02 fast train
dep. 9:42 Bucurest Nord arr. Brasov 12:49  dur. 3:07


walkingpneumonia, my official train schedules are a bit different than yours, but mostly the same:

dep. Bucharest Nord  0630 arr. Brasov 0922 
dep. Bucharest Nord 0730 arr. Brasov 1019 
dep. 0616 arr. 1051(note: nobody would want this)
dep. Bucharest Nord 0830 arr. Brasov 1124 
dep. Bucharest Nord 0942 1254  or  1130 1404

My 0616 is about the same as your 0613 departure and no sane racer would take either one since you can arrive earlier by waiting until the 0730 departure. The 730am, 830am and 942am departures are the same. I do not show any 550am or 845am departures and I do have a 630am deqaprture you do not show.






Looks like a team that misses the first train needs to be careful they don't take the 6:13 which gets them there later despite leaving earlier...

there must be a bus they could take that would be faster - but since we see Tammy in a train station I'll assume they take a train. 
:neener:
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on February 27, 2009, 08:13:49 AM
AR14 Timeline(revised 3/16):

all changes are focused on legs 4, 5 and 6

Oct. 31 leg 1 depart U.S. for Locarno, Switzerland via Frankfurt and Zurich or via Milan:

LAX to Milan-Malpensa(MXP) as follows: AF75 LAX CDG 1600 0930+1, connecting with AF4806 CDG MXP 1125+1 1305+1     
Here are the schedules in the same time frame:
take taxi to Chiasso, the first train station in Switzerland. Schedules to Locarno would be:
depart Chiasso 1500 arrive Locarno 1613
depart Chiasso 1533 arrive Locarno 1657
depart Chiasso 1603 arrive Locarno 1727 
 
From LAX to Zurich via Frankfurt we have the interesting combination:
LH457  LAX FRA  1535 1025+1 connecting with LH3726   FRA ZRH  1200 1255

There are 10 nonstop flights on Saturday between Frankfurt and Zurich, so if any are delayed there are alternatives.

The train schedule from Zurich to Bellinzona to Locarno indicates that 3 1/4 hours is required. Here it is:
de.Zurich 1402 arrive Arth-Goldau 1446 dep. 1448 arr. Bellinzona 1623 dep. 1630 arrive Locarno 1657

Nov. 1 arrive mid-morning in Europe and reach Locarn late afternoon afternoon; then sign up for 0715, 0730 or 0745am departures; then sleep overnight;
Nov. 2 Verzasca Dam bungee jump then Locarno to Domodossola to Spiez to Interlaken by train;
schedule for a leading team:
dep. Locarno 0903 arr. Bellinzona 0927
dep. Bellnizona 0936 arr. Lucerne 1141 via the St. Gotthard Tunnel
dep. Lucerne 1155 arr. Interlaken Ost 1355
this is nearly a 5 hour trip;

schedule for good train (taken by Brad/Victoria and lagging teams get there in time to take it):
dep. Locarno 1042 arr. Domodossola 1230
dep. Domodossola 1248 arr. Spiez 1353
dep. Spiez 1403 arr. Interlaken West 1423
total trip is 4 hours train;
other teams go earlier and get there slightly earlier(except for Christie/Jodi who get a circuitous route 1 1/4 hours hours earlier but arrive later or teams that are behind Brad/Victoria);

Interlaken tasks;
Interlaken area (Stechelberg) pit stop

Nov. 3 leg 2 Interlaken by tasi directl to Zurich airport, then plane to Salzburg:
 
From Interlaken to Munich, the early morning Monday(as in Nov.3) flights are:
LX1100 ZRH MUC 0710 0815
LX3616 ZRH MUC 0845 0945

then self-drive less than an hour to Ruhpolding
Tasks in Raushberg near Ruhpolding parasailing, 25 mile drive to Schnoau am Kongisee for tasks, then
Evening Extedned 18 hour Pit stop in Salzburg at Schloss Hellbrunn

Nov. 4  begin leg 3;
Salzburg to Bucharest starts with driving to Alzburg rail station, getting on a train to Munich and switching there to an airport train. The schedules from Salzburg  all the way to MUchich Flughafen (on average once per hour) are:

1103 1317
1152 1417
1303 1526
1314 1537
1352 1557
1441 1657
1552 1757
1617 1827
Flight choices depend on arrival at Munich Airport. Tammy/Victor initially get LH3480 1525 1825 but then it comes back with a mechanical problem.
RO312 1645 1945 is taken by 3 teams.
LH3424 2130 0025+1 is taken by everyone else except Brad/Victoria
Brad/Victoria attempt to get 15 minutes ahead of the alst group by going MUC AMS and AMS OTP but delays on the flight into Amsterdam doom them to not departing until the KLM nonstop the next morning and not arriving into Bucharest until after 1pm.

Nov. 5 arrival in Bucharest after midnight; transfer to train to get to Brasov
morning train departures: Bucharest Nord 2358 arr. Brasov 0246  or  dep. 0630 0922  or  dep. 0730 1019  or  dep. 0616 1051(note: nobody would want this) or  0830 1124  or  0942 1254  or  1130 1404

tasks in Brasov and nearby Transylvania
extended pit stop in Transylvania (includes Brasov)

Nov. 7 leg 4  leave Transylvania for Krasnojarsk, Siberia
return to Bucharest, then choice of:

TK1444  OTP IST RO261 0825 0955 connecting in Istanbul to SU208 SVO 1255 1705 

OTP SOFIA RO293 0820 0920, connecting to SOF SVO SU162 1240 1630

OTP FRA LH3417 0610 0750 or RO321 0910 1050, either connecting to SU106 FRA SVO 1405 1910 

OTP MUC LH3425 0700 0810, connecting to SU122 MUC SVO 1310 1825 

OTP IST RO261 0825 0955. connecting to TK1415 IST SVO 1335 1740,
connecting at Moscow-Sheremetyevo to SU779 SVO KJA 2055 0540+1 OR
SU781 0045+1 0910+1

Nov. 8 do tasks
pit stop

Nov. 9
leg 5 begins allowing teams to board TransSiberian Express in late afternoon
Here is the schedule from Krasnojarsk to Novosibirsk on a weekday:

Dep.Kr  Arr.No Duration
00:57  14:09  13:12   
02:01  17:27  15:26 
04:10  16:01  11:51   
05:59  20:06  14:07   
06:52  18:51  11:59   
07:18   22:52  15:34     
08:05   21:24  13:19     
10:09   23:55  13:46     
10:36   23:12  12:36     
11:16   00:58  13:42     
12:36   01:12  12:36     
13:51   02:24  12:33     
14:37   04:19  13:42     
15:27   04:33  13:06     
18:26   06:47  12:21     
23:36   12:38  13:02   

I have no idea why teams had to wait for the non-listed 2228 train, which would arrive Nov. 10 around 1130.

Nov. 10 TransSiberian Express arrival in Novosibirsk
tasks in Novosibirsk, Siberia
pit stop (about 50/50 to be Extended 36 Hour variety)

Nov. 11 or 12 leg 6 begins
flights Novosibirsk to Jaipur:
if on Nov. 12,
SU810 OVB SVO 0700 0815
KC872 SVO ALA 0920 1645
KC907 ALA Delhi DEL 1805 2115;
if on Nov. 11,
S7865 OVB DXB  0800 1145
EK514 DXB DEL 1540 2015;

overnight at Delhi Airport

Nov. 13 or 14
There are 5 nonstop flights from Delhi to Jaipur on Wednesdays or Thursdays (Nov. 12 or 13). They are:

9W709 0545 0630
AI9896/IC896 0605 0645
IC7809 0700 0755
IT611 0930 1010
IT 2302 1930 2030

tasks in Jaipur area
pit stop (Extended if it was not so in Novosibirsk)

Nov. 14 leg 7 Fly Jaipur to Phuket
From Jaipur to Phuket late on Fridays with enough flex to accommodate teams laging far behind:

IC612  JAI BOM  0735 0910  connecting TG340  BOM BKK  1230 1815  connecting  TG227  BKK HKT  1915 2035
IT612  JAI DEL  1950 2030  connecting  SQ407  DEL SIN  2315 0715+1  connecting  SQ5052  SIN HKT  0850+1 0935+1
IT2301  JAI DEL  0550 0650  connecting  TG324  DEL BKK  1155 1725  connecting to  TG223  BKK HKT  1820 1940
9W372 JAI BOM  2040 2220 connecting 9W062  BOM BKK  0155+1 0740+1  connecting  PG924  BKK HKT  1145+1 1305+1
IT3128  JAI BOM  1415 1600  connecting   AI442 BOM SIN 0010+1 0750+1  connecting  MI752  SIN HKT  0850+1 0935+1

Nov. 15 see above
Phhuket area tasks
pit stop

Nov. 16 leg 8 fly from Phuket to Bangkok
Choices for flights are: TG226 0725 0850, TG1204 0935 1100, PG272 1025 1145, TG1206 1235 1400, TG1214 1355 1520, PPG 276 1350 1510
 
tasks in Bangkok area
Extended pit stop

Nov. 18 leg 9 fly from Bangkok to to Guilin
 Shenzen Air 9669 BKK CAN 2110 2225. The viable CAN KWL flights are TG668 0950 1330 and MS958 1310 1655. 
tasks in Guilin area

Nov. 19 leg 10 Guilin to Beijing flight choices:
CZ3281 0900 1125
CA6312 1145 1435
CZ3287 1710 1950
CA1226 2105 0015

then tasks in Beijing and start TBC or NEL
extended pit stop (note: this may also be one later later after next leg)

Nov. 20
 pitstop continues

Nov. 21
leg 11 starts
tasks
pitstop

Nov. 22
leg 12 return from Beijing to U.S. for Finish Line in Hawaii via Tokyo
PEK NRT on Air China has several choices:
CA6651/NH956 0845 1305
CA925               0930 1350
CA167               1350 1750

Continuing on from Tokyo-Narita to Honolulu (NRT to HNL), there are 9 choices with departures between 645pm and 10pm. With the 6 hours 45 minute flying team and 5 hour time difference, these flights arrive HNL 0630 to 0950. The most logical choice to me would be UA880 NRT HNL 1925 0710+1. All these are same day due to crossing the International Date Line.

Finish Line on Maui, so teams will take a 36 or 37 minute flight Honolulu to Kahului. There is at least one every hour from 5am to 9pm and several in some hours.
tasks
Finish Line

Note: this is a 22 day race.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on March 01, 2009, 09:09:11 PM
Brad and Victoria are in deep doo-doo.
*shrugs* We tried to save you, you know we tried.



From Salzburg to Munich

Teams took the train from Salzburg to Munich, then switched to the S-Bahn to the airport. Teams 2-4 got on at least two separate Salzburg trains, with Mel/Mike and Margie/Luke boarding one to Dortmund (which could only be the EC114), and Amanda/Kris holding a ticket for the IC2294. Hmm, they turned an 18min lead into a 51min deficit?

Tammy/Victor
Depart Pit Stop: 1013
IC2296 to Munich Central: 1153-1334
S1 to Munich Intl Airport: 1345-1426
Mel/Mike, Margie/Luke
Depart Pit Stop: 1201 & 1230
EC114 to Munich Central: 1302-1430
S1 to Munich Intl Airport: 1445-1526
Amanda/Kris
Depart Pit Stop: 1212
IC2294 to Munich East: 1353-1524
S8 to Munich Intl Airport: 1547-1617



From Munich to Bucharest

There are flight combinations (similar, and in addition to Amsterdam) that get the trailing teams to Bucharest about 15min earlier, but those involve a connection. You can see why teams didn't try those.

Tammy/Victor
CL3480: 1525-1825 (grounded)
LH3424: 2130-0025
Mel/Mike, Margie/Luke, Amanda/Kris
RO312: 1645-1945
Brad/Victoria
KL1798 to Amsterdam: 1730-1915 (delayed to 1806-2006)
KL1361 to Bucharest: 2020-0010 (missed)
KL1389 to Bucharest: 0950-1335
Christie/Jodi, Jamie/Cara, Mark/Michael, LaKisha/Jennifer
LH3424: 2130-0025



From Bucharest to Brasov

Brad/Victoria, if they took the same time as Mel/Mike and Margie/Luke, would be at the Roadblock at 2.49pm. There are two trains between then and sunset (the team's seen on the train in daylight). Ten hours behind - yikes! (Tammy/Victor had checked in before they arrived in Brasov.)

Everyone
0630-0922
Brad/Victoria
R827: 1530-1826 OR
R346: 1645-1939

Thanks to DrRox, Apskip, Peach and WalkingPneumonia for this leg's information!
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: georgiapeach on March 03, 2009, 12:48:37 PM
Mark and Michael say in an insider clip that they were at gymnastics 1-130AM and are driving thru Bucharest at 2AM.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: TARAsia Fan on March 03, 2009, 12:56:39 PM
The insider clips are running together for me. There was someone else who mentioned the kids at Gymnastics Hall stayed up at 1:30 a.m. for the teams so that gives us an idea when the teams landed in Bucharest.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Chateau d If on March 03, 2009, 02:20:42 PM
There are clear shots of 'the clock' behind Tammy & Victor.  I think it said 1:53.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on March 04, 2009, 03:12:52 AM
Bran, Romania is very likely to be an extended Pit Stop.

Teams' train arrived in Brasov at 9.22am on 5 Nov (fixed, thanks Apskip!). Let's say they speed by and check in within half an hour. Now if the Pit Stop was a traditional 12-hour one, they'd be leaving at earliest 9.52pm that evening, with the last international flight out of Bucharest at 9.25pm. They're stuck for the night.

The best flight to Krasnojarsk next morning would be:
SU152 to Moscow SVO: 0805-1125, connecting to
SU783 to Krasnojarsk: 1615-0040

If Brasov lasted only 12 hours, lead teams would be connecting through Moscow long before sunset at 4.38pm, but we see Mark/Michael (who are in the lead) transferring at night. SU152 does not run the next day on the 7th (under an extended Pit Stop), which would explain why the earliest teams reach Moscow only in the evening.

Regarding the assumption that teams can make the 8.05am flight: if Tammy/Victor check in four hours after the lead teams and yet manage to arrive before sunset (5pm), even taking the train (2.25am - 5.26am for example) teams can get to the airport in time.

Edited to add: But if the night cab shot of Mark/Michael are in Krasnojarsk instead of Moscow, then all this goes out the window! :ascared
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on March 04, 2009, 07:52:05 AM
Neobie:

I have a few questions about your information in the post above:

1. How do you know that teams arrived on the train in Brasov 30 minutes early? The time for the better Bucharest to Brasov trips including that one is around 170 minutes.  With scheduled arrival at 922am, how could they get that far ahead of schedule?

2. All other teams probably have the option of taking the 226am train back to Bucharest, but Tammy/Victor do not. They would not release from the pit stop until about 4am and that train would be halfway to Bucharest by then. My bet is that World Race Productions springs for a bus or two for the first group (all every Tammy/Victor, who would have their own bus) or they make sure plenty of taxis arrive around midnight to the Vila Panoramic.

3. I find SU152 OTP SVO, but I do not find any SU783 SVO KJA for the right time frame. I checked for Friday (Nov. 7) and for Thursday (Nov. 6) in case there is no Extended pit stop in Romania. It is possible that SU783 exists, but when I checked them directly on the Aeroflot website, they are not shown there for those days of the week.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on March 04, 2009, 08:10:19 AM
1. How do you know that teams arrived on the train in Brasov 30 minutes early? The time for the better Bucharest to Brasov trips including that one is around 170 minutes.  With scheduled arrival at 922am, how could they get that far ahead of schedule?

Like WalkingPneumonia, the train schedule I got from the official website (http://www.cfr.ro/) shows the first train on Wednesdays running from 5.50am to 8.52am. But no matter in this case; we're trying to prove that no team can leave Romania on the evening of the 5th.

2. All other teams probably have the option of taking the 226am train back to Bucharest, but Tammy/Victor do not. They would not release from the pit stop until about 4am and that train would be halfway to Bucharest by then. My bet is that World Race Productions springs for a bus or two for the first group (all every Tammy/Victor, who would have their own bus) or they make sure plenty of taxis arrive around midnight to the Vila Panoramic.

You're right; Tammy/Victor may take up to 8.37am to get into Bucharest if they take a train from Brasov. But here we're trying to set the early and late bounds for the lead teams arriving in the Bucharest Airport, as we're concerned with what time Mark/Michael get to Moscow.

Since even taxis can't get from Bran to Bucharest in 3 minutes, we've got the early bound covered; teams arriving at 9.26pm are as good as arriving at 5.00am the next day. The late bound would be assuming travel by train, and we see that the lead teams should have little trouble getting into Bucharest by 5.26am.

3. I find SU152 OTP SVO, but I do not find any SU783 SVO KJA for the right time frame. I checked for Friday (Nov. 7) and for Thursday (Nov. 6) in case there is no Extended pit stop in Romania. It is possible that SU783 exists, but when I checked them directly on the Aeroflot website, they are not shown there for those days of the week.

Attached is the information for SU783 from Moscow SVO to Krasnojarsk on 6 Nov. The service has stopped running since the beginning of February this year.

(I don't think FV573 from St Petersburg to Krasnojarsk runs on Thursdays or Fridays. Our racers should all be headed to Moscow then?)
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on March 04, 2009, 07:31:22 PM
Neobie,
there is little else I think is worthwhile to look at at this time. We have 4 flights for Nov. 6 arriving in Krasnojarsk the next morning at 1240am(I'll take your word based on how you developed this as I can't substantiate it independently becasue it no longer exists), 240am(this is through St. Petersburg and I cannot provide any substantiation other than it continues to exist in a major database even though Rossia Airlines does not show it) , 540am 600am and 645am. For any team, one of them should be right. This is the no-extended-pit-stop-Romania case. The extended pit stop Romania case is departure on Nov. 7 and arriving Krasnojarsk the next day at 240am, 540am, or 600am or 645am. For either date, the Moscow connecting airport (except for the St. Petersburg case) is DME twice, VKO once, or SVO once.

Now let's move backward to departure from Bucharest. The modified options on Nov. 6(adding SU152) are:
SU152 at 0805 via VIE to DME (connecting to SU573 leaving at 1615 and arriving 0040+1)
RO341 at 0835 via VIE to DME, leaving there at 2220 unless taxi transfer to one of the other airports for a slightly earlier arrival
TK1444 at 1050 via IST to SVO, leaving there at 2055
NE3207 at 0930 leaving Bucharest-Banasea BBU via VIE to SVO, leaving there at 2055
For VKO airport on this day you can't get there from here because there are no apporpriate flights from OTP to VKO

The options for Nov. 7 departure from Bucharest (subtracting SU152) are:
MA857 at 0615 via BUD to DME, leaving there at 2220
TK1444 at 1050 via IST to SVO, leaving there at 2055
NE3207 at 0930 via from BBU to VIE to SVO, leaving there at 2055

I have another layer of detail not shown beacuse it's already complex enough. I will wait until after the actual episode to provide more detail on the actual paths chosen.


Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: georgiapeach on March 05, 2009, 11:41:35 PM
I believe that you will find that a 36 hour Pitstop in Romania, as you have speculated, works well into the Timeline.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: DrRox on March 06, 2009, 12:28:57 AM
Its the "weekend."
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on March 06, 2009, 07:13:58 AM
Dr. Rox, of course the weekend has nothing to do with it. When any Amazing Race gets to its 4th episode, an extended pit stop wherever they are is frequently scheduled. There will be another one later in the race, probably 3, 4 or 5 eipsodes later. That would be India, Phuket or Bangkok or Guilin. My best guess, and it's only that, is that it will be at the end of the Bangkok leg. I think there will be a third one after one of the Beijing legs.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on March 06, 2009, 09:07:07 AM
There's no shortage of good flights into Moscow; ticket availability for the Moscow-Krasnojarsk leg is probably what's holding teams back.

Airports for those just joining in: Moscow has three main airports: Sheremtyevo, Domodedovo and Vnukovo. Baneasa is Bucharest's secondary airport.

There are plenty of flights through at least 13 European cities that can get teams poised for the first Moscow-Krasnojarsk flight at 8.55pm. With Apskip's Athens flight leaving Bucharest at 9.40am, even Tammy/Victor should be able to catch up with everyone if there were enough tickets.

I'm with Apskip in his flights. Mark/Michael, Jennifer/LaKisha and Christie/Jodi probably qualify for his "second wave of teams", arriving at 5.40am. This flight runs out of tickets, and the rest make up his "lagging teams combination", arriving at 6.45am. With the earlier flight flying out of Sheremtyevo and the later flight flying out of Domodedovo, that's likely what Mark meant when he mentioned the other teams "stuck at the other airport". Since Baneasa flights also wind up at the 8.55pm bunching point, it's not likely teams would be stuck at this "other airport".

In short, we should be seeing the three earliest teams holding a 65min lead over the rest of the pack.

(If ticket problems are that serious, there's a flight from Vnukovo arriving at 7.05am, and another arriving at 8.05am. Last flight out that evening leaves from Sheremtyevo, arriving at 9.10am.)

Teams 3, 5 and 6 scoring the best tickets? Are we seeing a bunching, probably a train from Brasov back to Bucharest? Or Mark's "leading teams" are not the leading teams at all?



Krasnojarsk is unlikely to be a 36-hour Pit Stop since there was just one in Bran, plus Phil can fly to Novosibirsk while teams take the train. Novosibirsk is likely to be extended, after which we have just the right amount of time to get to Jaipur. (Fixed stupid accidental swap. Thanks DrRox!)

Jaipur as a regular Pit Stop is the most likely reason why Phil isn't further ahead of the teams getting into Thailand. With Phuket on the 15th, Bangkok on the 16th and Guilin on the 17th, Phuket and Bangkok cannot be 36-hour Pit Stops.

Guilin can go either way depending on the transport from there to Beijing. I don't see a need for Beijing I to be extended (since Phil doesn't need to scramble to another city). Beijing II is not extended, or Phil would be way ahead of teams getting to Hawaii.

My educated picks: Bran on the 6th, Novosibirsk on the 11th, Guilin on the 18th. Which kind of (but not absolutely) fits into DrRox's "once a week" model.



Edited to add: Bran is confirmed as an extened Pit Stop. Phil cannot be a day ahead of the teams (as in his Krasnojarsk diaries) with a regular 12-hour Pit Stop; after eliminating Brad/Victoria he too is basically stuck in Romania for the night. He probably saved one trip over the racers though, with that direct flight to Moscow only available on the 6th...
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on March 07, 2009, 07:34:45 AM
DELETED due to accuracy issue.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on March 09, 2009, 10:01:26 AM
Episode 4 Flight Alternatives

We know from the telecast that teams actually chose to go from Bucharest to Moscow by a number of different paths, connecting in Sofia, Frankfurt, Munich or Istanbul. Here are the flights they had access to in the relevant time frames (sometimes there is more than one possibility):

OTP SOFIA RO293 0820 0920, connecting to SOF SVO SU162 1240 1630

OTP FRA LH3417 0610 0750 or RO321 0910 1050, either connecting to SU106 FRA SVO 1405 1910  or FRA DME 1035 1550

OTP MUC LH3425 0700 0810, connecting to SU122 MUC SVO 1310 1825 or  MUC DME S74898 1015 1510

OTP IST RO261 0825 0955. connecting to TK1415 IST SVO 1335 1740, with no connections from Istanbul to DME

So, I conclude from the above that no team could possible catch the DME KJA flight Siberian S7 073 1010 1835. Next, I conclude that all teams going to Sheremetyevo airport would have access to the earliest arriving flight team could get SVO KJA SU779 2055 0540+1. Other teams could get DME KJA S7 071 2220 0645+1, but teams would do that only if restrictions froze them out of the earlier one. I think the leading teams Mark/Michael, Christie/Jody and Kisha/Jen have taken all available seats on SU779 and all other teams arrived later, not able to get on it despite ticketing, and were stuck with S7(Siberian) 071. The Backup would have been SU781 0045+1 0910+1, but it lands 3.5 hours after SU779 so that did not happen.

Now here is the really interesting part. In order to get the 2220 flight from Domodedovo, teams would have all flown into Sheremetyevo expecting to get the 2055 flight from there to Krasnoyarsk. All 5 teams left would have have to take shuttle buses or taxis across Moscow about 1 hour to DME airport. Not showing any of that drama or how the decisions to have 5 teams not on the 2055 flight is a real casualty of the new World Race Productions policies about air transportation's share of the telecast. More would have been appropriate.

EDITOR'S NOTE - As a result of a note below by Neobie, I doublechecked my work and found a few typos (not surprising since they happen to me all the time these days) and corrected them. SU162 now is SU172. SU176 (you had to see how I actually wrote this down in my notes) now is SU122 and its departure time was 1310, not 1300. I do have a diofferent connecting flight in Istanbul and I am sticking with it. Aeroflot does not have an office in Bucharest Airport and  the originating flight on Turkish Airlines would mean that Turkish is likely to have made the booking. Are they going to have a transfer in Istanbul to Aeroflot that arrives 35 minutes earlier? In a pig's eye, as that saying goes!

Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: bearkat on March 09, 2009, 10:51:30 AM
but wouldn't the teams if they caught the flight arriving at 6:45 catch up to the first three teams since the hours of operations at the dam was 8:30 and the 5 teams didn't arrive until the first three were doing their tasks

Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on March 09, 2009, 12:23:54 PM
The only flight arriving after sunrise (at 8.09am) is the next best flight from Sheremetyevo, landing at 9.10am. The teams were all poised to board the earliest flight by flying into Sheremetyevo, but it looks like customs took longer than expected. Those scheduling the most comfortable connections were rewarded for it. Lead teams arrived in Krasnojarsk 3.5 hours before the trailing teams, and had an hour's lead even after hours of operation.

Teams could have cut their losses by trying any of the three flights from Domodedovo and Vnukovo, but I guess no one wanted to take the risk of leaving the pack and braving the Moscow traffic...

Below flights are somewhat different from Apskip's, but match up with Puck's over at TWoP. Perhaps we were looking at different dates?

From Bucharest to Moscow

LaKisha/Jennifer, Mark/Michael
RO293 to Sofia: 0820-0920
SU172 to Moscow SVO: 1240-1640 (4h15 for connection)
Jodi/Christie
RO261 to Istanbul: 0835-0950
SU208 to Moscow SVO: 1255-1705 (3h50 for connection)
Cara/Jaime, Luke/Margie, Tammy/Victor
LH3425 to Munich: 0700-0810
SU122 to Moscow SVO: 1310-1825 (2h30 for connection)
Mel/Mike, Amanda/Kris
LH3417 to Frankfurt: 0610-0750 OR
RO301 to Frankfurt: 0910-1050
SU106 to Moscow SVO: 1405-1910 (1h45 for connection)



From Moscow to Krasnojarsk

LaKisha/Jennifer, Mark/Michael, Jodi/Christie
SU779: 2055-0540
Cara/Jaime, Luke/Margie, Tammy/Victor, Mel/Mike, Amanda/Kris
SU781: 0045-0910

ETA: Five... hundred!
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: puddin on March 09, 2009, 12:33:00 PM
Happy 500th post Neobie!!!  :cheesehead :conf: :keeta: :roses: :pickle: :wtg: :luvx
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on March 09, 2009, 01:41:31 PM
Neobie,
Congratulations on your 500th post! It's a major accomplishment because your posts have a high quality density.

I want to debate your conclusion that the last 5 teams stayed at Sheremetyevo and left on the 910am arriving flight. With a half hour to get the camera/sound equipment off and set up and one hour minimum to get to the dam, they would be there no sooner than 1040am on your scenario. Mark/Michael would have been searching for the house or working at the Construct since before 0900am so that's about 100 minutes. I cannot believe that on a DETOUR they would not have finished up and found the house on their own long before anyone else arrived. Also, the fact that there is daylight as the second plane was landing does not rule out a 645am arrival. Sunrise was apparently 1 hour 24 minutes later. This is not an odds-on bet but it is not impossible.

How do you know that those 5 teams took SU781? Until some questioner hears from Amanda/Kris, there is probably no way to know for sure.

I think your explanation of what happened at Sheremetyevo is plausible, but here is the amount of time teams arriving there had to connect if arrived on time:

Sofia 4.5 hours
Frankfurt 1.75 hours
Munich 2.5 hours
Istanbul 3.5 hours

Except for Frankfurt, that's ample time for customs, transfers and security.

Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: puddin on March 09, 2009, 07:30:04 PM
 :tup:

Quote
Amanda: Yeah, well first of all we missed the flights. In Russia apparently it takes three hours to go through customs and we weren't expecting that. We had an hour-and-a-half gap to go through customs and we thought that would be plenty of time, and it wasn't. However as you noticed we weren't the only team to make that mistake. Everyone except for three teams missed the flight. So that was the first thing that put us behind.

Kris: When we were in Transylvania we were at the airport and there was tons of different flights to choose from, and it was kinda our job to pick and choose which flight we wanted, and we decided to connect through Frankfurt because we thought it was kind of a busier airport. We thought we'd get through it a lot quicker and not get held up, but it turns out that we didn't time the timing in Russia right, so it put us in the back of the pack.

Reality TV World: You said that the delay on the flight was caused by customs?

Amanda: Yes.

Kris: Yeah, in Russia.

Reality TV World: Did you even come close to making the connecting flight out of Moscow?

Kris: Well we were sitting in this little waiting room for hours on end just looking at our clocks, because we were there an hour-and-a-half before our flight was supposed to leave so we thought we were gonna be okay. It just ended up taking a really long time. And we ended up seeing all the other teams there and we were all bummed out, we were like "Oh gosh, this sucks we kinda got screwed."

Reality TV World: How far behind that first 5:40AM arrival flight was the one that you and the other four teams ended up flying on?

Kris: It was about four hours difference.

Amanda: Yeah, three or four hours difference. We knew that the three teams would be the first ones were in good shape.




Quote
Reality TV World: Do you know how far behind [Mark and Michael Munoz] you finished?

Kris: Like 10 minutes.

Amanda: Yeah, the production said 10 minutes. 

RTVW (http://www.realitytvworld.com/news/exclusive-amanda-blackledge-and-kris-klicka-talk-the-amazing-race-8576.php)
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: DrRox on March 09, 2009, 07:56:00 PM
Congradulations on the 500th, Neobie. As usual, your analysis is spot on!!!!
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: puddin on March 09, 2009, 09:20:26 PM
Congradulations on the 500th, Neobie. As usual, your analysis is spot on!!!!
:monkey
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on March 15, 2009, 09:32:38 PM
It's time to discover how teams are going to get from Delhi Airport to those camels. In a separate post I presented the choice of Jaisalmer and Bikaner as the major camel centers in India. That does not mean that camels could not have been staged anywhere in India that has sand (quite a bit), but it is logical to expect that either Jaisalmer or Bikaner was chosen. So how do you get there from Delhi. It is going to take a while since neither place is large enough to warrant an airport. They are the end of separate major train lines, but will take a while to reach there.

So let's start out of Delhi and see how we do. We can take a through train from Delhi all the way to Jaisalmer:
dep. Delhi main train station 1740 arrive Jaisalmer 1100 (total time of 17 1/4 hours).

You can take a train from Delhi to Jodhpur , dep. 2045 arr. 0800, and then switch to a train from Jodhpur to Bikaner dep. 1005 1600 (total time of 19 1/4 hours).

Or you can take the daily nonstop flight from Delhi to Jodhpur DEL JDH 1210 1330 and switch to a  train to get to Bikaner dep. 1345 arr. 2120 (total time of 9 hours) or to Jaisalmer dep. 1520 arr. 0940 (total time of 21.5 hours).

Those are the major options. There are flights that get into Jodhpur slightly earlier if you leave a lot earlier, but why bother? You can't get to Jodhpur or Jaisalmer any faster.

Now, the arrival into Delhi flying from Novosibirsk, Moscow and Almaty is at 2115. That means that both evening trains to Jodhpur are missed. That makes it likely that teams would fly from Delhi to Jodphpur as shown above.

To get from Jodhpur to Phuket, here is the basic combination(there are several variants of it):

9W3312 JDH DEL 1405 1535
TG316 DEL BKK 0005+1 0535+1
TG203 Bkk HKT 0730+1 0850+1
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: georgiapeach on March 15, 2009, 09:45:34 PM
But Apskip, TPTB have told us that the next leg is in JAIPUR. Although that is some great transport work anyway.

It's time to discover how teams are going to get from Delhi Airport to those camels. In a separate post I presented the choice of Jaisalmer and Bikaner as the major camel centers in India. That does not mean that camels could not have been staged anywhere in India that has sand (quite a bit), but it is logical to expect that either Jaisalmer or Bikaner was chosen. So how do you get there from Delhi. It is going to take a while since neither place is large enough to warrant an airport. They are the end of separate major train lines, but will take a while to reach there.

So let's start out of Delhi and see how we do. We can take a through train from Delhi all the way to Jaisalmer:
dep. Delhi main train station 1740 arrive Jaisalmer 1100 (total time of 17 1/4 hours).

You can take a train from Delhi to Jodhpur , dep. 2045 arr. 0800, and then switch to a train from Jodhpur to Bikaner dep. 1005 1600 (total time of 19 1/4 hours).

Or you can take the daily nonstop flight from Delhi to Jodhpur DEL JDH 1210 1330 and switch to a  train to get to Bikaner dep. 1345 arr. 2120 (total time of 9 hours) or to Jaisalmer dep. 1520 arr. 0940 (total time of 21.5 hours).

Those are the major options. There are flights that get into Jodhpur slightly earlier if you leave a lot earlier, but why bother? You can't get to Jodhpur or Jaisalmer any faster.

Now, the arrival into Delhi flying from Novosibirsk, Moscow and Almaty is at 2115. That means that both evening trains to Jodhpur are missed. That makes it likely that teams would fly from Delhi to Jodphpur as shown above.

To get from Jodhpur to Phuket, here is the basic combination(there are several variants of it):

9W3312 JDH DEL 1405 1535
TG316 DEL BKK 0005+1 0535+1
TG203 Bkk HKT 0730+1 0850+1
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on March 16, 2009, 05:28:04 AM
Thanks for the love! :hearts:

So... Krasnoyarsk was a 20 to 24 hour Pit Stop? At the train station, Mel/Mike talk about Mark/Michael using up all their money "yesterday", so Krasnoyarsk probably didn't get extended by more than a day.

Can anyone find the correct train this episode? Even when I look at old schedules (the schedule just changed the day before our train) there doesn't seem to be a train departing at 10.26pm. There's a 011U (2336-1238) though. I'm also seeing other trains leaving throughout the day - what's up with that?



Quote from: CBS Preview
Fly to "the Pink City" in India!

Sounds like Jaipur's the first (and probably only) stop in India, huh? Haven't seen any night shots yet, so I'd say the entire leg takes place on the 13th? That would give us an extended Pit Stop in Novosibirsk that we should look out for, presumably because it's difficult to get Phil ahead otherwise...

I think it'd be a pretty straight-forward route if teams leave on the 12th after a 36h Pit Stop. Expect complete bunching.
SU1440 to Moscow SVO: 1055-1210, or any earlier flights
SU533 to Delhi: 1620-0050
9W709 to Jaipur: 0545-0630, or the other flights Apskip also has
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: DrRox on March 16, 2009, 07:14:54 AM
Thanks for the love! :hearts:

So... Krasnoyarsk was a 20 to 24 hour Pit Stop? At the train station, Mel/Mike talk about Mark/Michael using up all their money "yesterday", so Krasnoyarsk probably didn't get extended by more than a day.

Can anyone find the correct train this episode? Even when I look at old schedules (the schedule just changed the day before our train) there doesn't seem to be a train departing at 10.26pm. There's a 011U (2336-1238) though. I'm also seeing other trains leaving throughout the day - what's up with that?



Quote from: CBS Preview
Fly to "the Pink City" in India!

Sounds like Jaipur's the first (and probably only) stop in India, huh? Haven't seen any night shots yet, so I'd say the entire leg takes place on the 13th? That would give us an extended Pit Stop in Novosibirsk that we should look out for, presumably because it's difficult to get Phil ahead otherwise...

I think it'd be a pretty straight-forward route if teams leave on the 12th after a 36h Pit Stop. Expect complete bunching.
SU1440 to Moscow SVO: 1055-1210, or any earlier flights
SU533 to Delhi: 1620-0050
9W709 to Jaipur: 0545-0630, or the other flights Apskip also has

Well that itinerary gives them 4 hours 10 minutes to get from SVO T-1 to SVO T-2 and clear exit secruity/immigration/customs.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on March 16, 2009, 07:48:29 AM
AR14 Timeline(revised 3/24):

all changes are focused on legs 4, 5 and 6

Oct. 31 leg 1 depart U.S. for Locarno, Switzerland via Frankfurt and Zurich or via Milan:

LAX to Milan-Malpensa(MXP) as follows: AF75 LAX CDG 1600 0930+1, connecting with AF4806 CDG MXP 1125+1 1305+1     
Here are the schedules in the same time frame:
take taxi to Chiasso, the first train station in Switzerland. Schedules to Locarno would be:
depart Chiasso 1500 arrive Locarno 1613
depart Chiasso 1533 arrive Locarno 1657
depart Chiasso 1603 arrive Locarno 1727 
 
From LAX to Zurich via Frankfurt we have the interesting combination:
LH457  LAX FRA  1535 1025+1 connecting with LH3726   FRA ZRH  1200 1255

There are 10 nonstop flights on Saturday between Frankfurt and Zurich, so if any are delayed there are alternatives.

The train schedule from Zurich to Bellinzona to Locarno indicates that 3 1/4 hours is required. Here it is:
de.Zurich 1402 arrive Arth-Goldau 1446 dep. 1448 arr. Bellinzona 1623 dep. 1630 arrive Locarno 1657

Nov. 1 arrive mid-morning in Europe and reach Locarn late afternoon afternoon; then sign up for 0715, 0730 or 0745am departures; then sleep overnight;
Nov. 2 Verzasca Dam bungee jump then Locarno to Domodossola to Spiez to Interlaken by train;
schedule for a leading team:
dep. Locarno 0903 arr. Bellinzona 0927
dep. Bellnizona 0936 arr. Lucerne 1141 via the St. Gotthard Tunnel
dep. Lucerne 1155 arr. Interlaken Ost 1355
this is nearly a 5 hour trip;

schedule for good train (taken by Brad/Victoria and lagging teams get there in time to take it):
dep. Locarno 1042 arr. Domodossola 1230
dep. Domodossola 1248 arr. Spiez 1353
dep. Spiez 1403 arr. Interlaken West 1423
total trip is 4 hours train;
other teams go earlier and get there slightly earlier(except for Christie/Jodi who get a circuitous route 1 1/4 hours hours earlier but arrive later or teams that are behind Brad/Victoria);

Interlaken tasks;
Interlaken area (Stechelberg) pit stop

Nov. 3 leg 2 Interlaken by tasi directl to Zurich airport, then plane to Salzburg:
 
From Interlaken to Munich, the early morning Monday(as in Nov.3) flights are:
LX1100 ZRH MUC 0710 0815
LX3616 ZRH MUC 0845 0945

then self-drive less than an hour to Ruhpolding
Tasks in Raushberg near Ruhpolding parasailing, 25 mile drive to Schnoau am Kongisee for tasks, then
Evening Extedned 18 hour Pit stop in Salzburg at Schloss Hellbrunn

Nov. 4  begin leg 3;
Salzburg to Bucharest starts with driving to Alzburg rail station, getting on a train to Munich and switching there to an airport train. The schedules from Salzburg  all the way to MUchich Flughafen (on average once per hour) are:

1103 1317
1152 1417
1303 1526
1314 1537
1352 1557
1441 1657
1552 1757
1617 1827
Flight choices depend on arrival at Munich Airport. Tammy/Victor initially get LH3480 1525 1825 but then it comes back with a mechanical problem.
RO312 1645 1945 is taken by 3 teams.
LH3424 2130 0025+1 is taken by everyone else except Brad/Victoria
Brad/Victoria attempt to get 15 minutes ahead of the alst group by going MUC AMS and AMS OTP but delays on the flight into Amsterdam doom them to not departing until the KLM nonstop the next morning and not arriving into Bucharest until after 1pm.

Nov. 5 arrival in Bucharest after midnight; transfer to train to get to Brasov
morning train departures: Bucharest Nord 2358 arr. Brasov 0246  or  dep. 0630 0922  or  dep. 0730 1019  or  dep. 0616 1051(note: nobody would want this) or  0830 1124  or  0942 1254  or  1130 1404

tasks in Brasov and nearby Transylvania
extended pit stop in Transylvania (includes Brasov)

Nov. 7 leg 4  leave Transylvania for Krasnojarsk, Siberia
return to Bucharest, then choice of:

TK1444  OTP IST RO261 0825 0955 connecting in Istanbul to SU208 SVO 1255 1705 

OTP SOFIA RO293 0820 0920, connecting to SOF SVO SU162 1240 1630

OTP FRA LH3417 0610 0750 or RO321 0910 1050, either connecting to SU106 FRA SVO 1405 1910 

OTP MUC LH3425 0700 0810, connecting to SU122 MUC SVO 1310 1825 

OTP IST RO261 0825 0955. connecting to TK1415 IST SVO 1335 1740,
connecting at Moscow-Sheremetyevo to SU779 SVO KJA 2055 0540+1 OR
SU781 0045+1 0910+1

Nov. 8 do tasks
pit stop

Nov. 9
leg 5 begins allowing teams to board TransSiberian Express in late afternoon
Here is the schedule from Krasnojarsk to Novosibirsk on a weekday:

Dep.Kr  Arr.No Duration
00:57  14:09  13:12   
02:01  17:27  15:26 
04:10  16:01  11:51   
05:59  20:06  14:07   
06:52  18:51  11:59   
07:18   22:52  15:34     
08:05   21:24  13:19     
10:09   23:55  13:46     
10:36   23:12  12:36     
11:16   00:58  13:42     
12:36   01:12  12:36     
13:51   02:24  12:33     
14:37   04:19  13:42     
15:27   04:33  13:06     
18:26   06:47  12:21     
23:36   12:38  13:02   

I have no idea why teams had to wait for the non-listed 2228 train, which would arrive Nov. 10 around 1130.

Nov. 10 TransSiberian Express arrival in Novosibirsk
tasks in Novosibirsk, Siberia
Extended 24 Hour pit stop

Nov. 12 leg 6 begins
flights Novosibirsk to Jaipur:

SU810 OVB SVO 0700 0815
KC872 SVO ALA 0920 1645
KC907 ALA Delhi DEL 1805 2115;

overnight at Delhi Airport

Nov. 13
There are 5 nonstop flights from Delhi to Jaipur on Wednesdays or Thursdays (Nov. 12 or 13). They are:

9W709 0545 0630
AI9896/IC896 0605 0645
IC7809 0700 0755
IT611 0930 1010
IT 2302 1930 2030

tasks in Jaipur area
pit stop

Nov. 14 leg 7 Fly Jaipur to Phuket
From Jaipur to Phuket late on Fridays:

9W372 JAI BOM  2040 2220 connecting AI6318  BOM BKK  2320 0520+1 connecting  TG201  BKK HKT  0720+1 0840+1

Nov. 15 see above
Phuket area tasks
pit stop

Nov. 16 leg 8 fly from Phuket to Bangkok
Choices for flights are: TG226 0725 0850, TG1204 0935 1100, PG272 1025 1145, TG1206 1235 1400, TG1214 1355 1520, PPG 276 1350 1510
 
tasks in Bangkok area
Extended pit stop

Nov. 18 leg 9 fly from Bangkok to to Guilin
FD3600 / NX192 (0700-1410) through Macau
CX750 / KA700 (1155-1925) OR UL422 / KA700 (1315-1925) through Hong Kong
EK384 / CZ3032 (1320-2050) OR CI832 / CZ3032 (1445-2050) through Hong Kong
ET606 / CZ3303 (1430-2130) OR TG678 / CZ3303 (1520-2130) through Guangzhou
TG678 / ZH9669 (1520-2225) through Guangzhou CZ364 (1820-2200) / CZ3234 (2305-2355) through Guangzhou

 

Nov. 19 leg 10 Guilin to Beijing flight choices:
CZ3281 0900 1125
CA6312 1145 1435
CZ3287 1710 1950
CA1226 2105 0015

then tasks in Beijing and start TBC or NEL
extended pit stop (note: this may also be one later later after next leg)

Nov. 20
 pitstop continues

Nov. 21
leg 11 starts
tasks
pitstop

Nov. 22
leg 12 return from Beijing to U.S. for Finish Line in Hawaii via Tokyo
PEK NRT on Air China has several choices:
CA6651/NH956 0845 1305
CA925               0930 1350
CA167               1350 1750

Continuing on from Tokyo-Narita to Honolulu (NRT to HNL), there are 9 choices with departures between 645pm and 10pm. With the 6 hours 45 minute flying team and 5 hour time difference, these flights arrive HNL 0630 to 0950. The most logical choice to me would be UA880 NRT HNL 1925 0710+1. All these are same day due to crossing the International Date Line.

Finish Line on Maui, so teams will take a 36 or 37 minute flight Honolulu to Kahului. There is at least one every hour from 5am to 9pm and several in some hours.
tasks
Finish Line

Note: this is a 22 day race.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on March 19, 2009, 07:32:08 AM
I have had a difficult time reconciling the arrival time in Novosibirsk. Thanks to the latest newsletter by Edward Hasbrouck, I think I now have it straight. The problem is that I could not find a 2226 departure train in the TransSiberian Railway schedule. With airlines schedules and most train schedules, local time is used. However, the TransSiberian Railway stays on Moscow time. So 2026 is really 1826 Moscow time, when there is a train departure. It arrives Novosibirsk at 0647 Moscow time, which is 947am local time. That is a 12 hour 21 minute run, among the fastest trains on that route.

To make a rough estimate of what that means for episode 5 timing in Novosibirsk:

Arrive Novosibirsk 0947
Go across town to clue with DETOUR, taking maybe 15 minutes
Russian Brides would require a 20 minute self-drive, then a 10 minute(if done correctly) drive to the church, then a 20 minute self-drive back to the Bioblioteka or
Russian Snowplow would require a 10 minute delf-drive, then maybe 20 minutes for both teammates to complete, then 20 minutes self-drive back to the Biblioteka
To be ready for the run took 10 minutes and to do it no more than 10 minutes
To find Phil inside the State Academy, 5 minutes
I estimate total time of 70 minutes using either DETOUR (unless a team went to the wrong church or had navigational difficulties)



Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Slowhatch on March 19, 2009, 10:30:59 AM
Maybe, despite what the producers say (what blizzard?), it wasn't a Trans-Sib train. I found a Russian Rail schedule (train 085, I used a Wednesday)  that matches the times you posted. Also, according to this site (http://www.waytorussia.net/Transport/Timetables/TransSiberian.html), you have to book TS in advance, but RussianRail tickets can be purchased at any rail counter.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on March 19, 2009, 12:27:46 PM
Slowhatch, you may be right. The schedule I am using says train #"055 bl" and train name Enisey. That does not tell us much.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on March 22, 2009, 10:14:10 PM
The flight information indicated that after the 0700 flight OVB to SVO, there was "a flight to Delhi". There were 2 ways to do this. One is the nonstop flight SVO DEL SU533  1620 0050 that Neobie proposed. What I have shown for Nov. 12 but not 11 is this combination through Almaty:
KC872 SVO ALA 0920 1645
KC907 ALA DEL 1805 2115
This one gets teams to Delhi about 3.5 hours earlier so it is what I would do in the same situation.

I found the mandate that teams must fly through Moscow a bit unusual, as that is typically done for first episodes only.



 
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on March 23, 2009, 06:01:00 AM
According to the Insider videos (thanks TARAsiaFan!), Tammy/Victor and Mel/Mike worked together transferring from one Moscow airport to another. One was in the far south (Domodedovo; there are no flights to Vnukovo), and one was in the north (Sheremetyevo). Victor says they had 5 hours to make the transfer.

This fits nicely with the following schedule, which involves three separate flights from Novosibirsk to Moscow:

Jaime/Cara, Margie/Luke, who are "consoling" Tammy/Victor at the Novosibirsk airport
SU810 to Sheremetyevo Intl Airport, Moscow: 0700-0815

Tammy/Victor, Mel/Mike
S7178 to Domodedovo Intl Airport, Moscow: 1000-1120 (5h connection time, which confirms the Delhi direct flight)
Metro to Sheremetyevo Intl Airport

Mark/Michael, Jennifer/LaKisha, Jodi/Christie
SU1440 to Sheremetyevo Intl Airport, Moscow: 1055-1210 (this is the next and only remaining flight that can make the Delhi direct)

Everybody
SU533 to Delhi Intl Airport, India: 1620-0050

Tammy/Victor and Mel/Mike were trying to avoid the Domestic<>International transfer in Sheremetyevo! Was this a wise decision?



Hmm, teams were seen on a morning 15th flight from Bangkok to Phuket, no? If teams arrived in Jaipur on the 13th and checked out early the next morning, wouldn't they have too much time to be stuck in Bangkok? I mean, examples could be:

6E207 to Kolkata: 0750-1010, 9W66 to Bangkok: 1145-1605, TG223 to Phuket: 1820-1940 OR
IC612 to Mumbai: 0735-0910, SQ7879 to Bangkok: 1120-1705, TG227 to Phuket: 1915-2035 OR
Heck, any of Apskip's flights would deny the Bangkok sighting.

Do we have a mandatory "travel to Phuket via Delhi", or do we have a slightly-extended Pit Stop again?

Here's one way Phil could escape after eliminating Jodi/Christie on the 13th:
IC895 to Delhi: 1815-1855
TG316 to Bangkok: 0005-0535
TG203 to Phuket: 0730-0850, giving him a day over the racers

Phil doesn't need a 36-hour Pit Stop to get ahead, unlike in the previous leg. Between Jaipur and Novosibirsk, it's still likely Russia was the extended Pit Stop. Now we just need to look for direct evidence!
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on March 23, 2009, 08:42:11 AM
Neobie,

Given the release times there is no reason that all 7 teams should not have been on SU810 OVB SVO 0700 0815. It looks to me that either that was not available or Tammy/Victor made a mistake in booking to Domodedovo airport for a flight leaving earlier U6099 OVB DME 0640 0755. However Tammy/Victor if for some reason they could not get on SU810 should have waited for SU1440 OVB SVO 1055 1210. Flights to Domodedovo in between were:

UN108 0720 0825
S7174 0740 0855
S7178 1000 1120
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on March 23, 2009, 11:47:57 PM
Rewatched the episode, and Victor whispers "ten" when Margie asks him what time their flight leaves (while Jaime blurts out a louder "seven"). The earlier flights must have been sold out.



Is there any reason to believe that not all teams arrived in Phuket on the same flight? We have Tammy/Victor and Mike/Mel (coincidentally the first two teams) on the 7.30am Bangkok flight, but they're nowhere to seen with LaKisha/Jennifer, Cara/Jaime and Michael/Mark at Phuket Zoo (which, if it's the monkey, is our first location).

And if the leg starts at 8.50am when the Bangkok flight lands, would teams take so long as to be stuck at the rickshaws at 4 in the afternoon?

For comparison, non-eliminated teams took 1h33 to 3h12 on the Locarno half-leg and 1h1 to 1h27 on the Interlaken half-leg.
The Munich-Salzburg long distance leg took 5h58 to 9h36.
The Bran half-leg took 1h57 to 4h38.
The Novosibirsk leg took 2h31 to 5h17.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on March 24, 2009, 09:34:45 AM
Neobie,

I have no 0730 BKK HKT flight. I do have these:

TG201 0720 0840
TG203 0740 0900
PG271 0750 0915

All of these land within a half-hour of when a 0730 deaprture would, so it's not a big deal.

I have taken another look at my listings for Jaipur to Phuket via either Delhi and Bangkok or Mumbai and Bangkok plus the one from Mumbai to Sinagpore. The impact of all reasonable possilbities is whown here:

IT2301  JAI DEL  0550 0650  connecting  TG324  DEL BKK  1155 1725  connecting to  TG223  BKK HKT  1820 1940
IC612  JAI BOM  0735 0910  connecting TG340  BOM BKK  1230 1815  connecting  TG227  BKK HKT  1915 2035
IT612  JAI DEL  1950 2030  connecting  SQ407  DEL SIN  2315 0715+1  connecting  SQ5052  SIN HKT  0850+1 0935+1
9W372 JAI BOM  2040 2220 connecting IT693  BOM BKK  0035+1 0620+1 connecting  PG924  BKK HKT  TG201 0720+1 0840+1

Which flight is best depends on when a team can depart from Jaipur Airport. If released early in the morning, then they could arrive Phuket between 1940 and 2035. If they have to wait until the evening, then then will arrive Phuket bewteen 0840 and 0935.

My prediction is that they will be released in Jaipur after a 12 hour pit stop before midnight. The first flights they can get ar shown on top above, but probably some teams are forced onto the evening flights. The Hours of Operation at the Phuket Zoo, which is open from 0830 to 1800. So the teams arriving at 0840 or 0935 will be behind at least one to two hours.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: georgiapeach on March 24, 2009, 11:25:35 AM
The flight which T/V and Mel/Mike were on is supposed to be:

Quote
15/nov
Bangkok- phuket
thai airways
flight TG203- 0730

perhaps the time from the source is not correct? ???

Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on March 24, 2009, 12:11:13 PM
The flight which T/V and Mel/Mike were on is supposed to be:

Quote
15/nov
Bangkok- phuket
thai airways
flight TG203- 0730

perhaps the time from the source is not correct? ???


Yup, it could be off by 10 minutes, but since I said that it hardly matters why should anyone care? The key is what actually happened. On November 15 TG203 departed Bangkok at 736am and arrived late in Phhuket at 858am.  Again, well within that 30 minute window that I mentioned. I thank Neobie for the technique needed to find that information.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: georgiapeach on March 24, 2009, 12:28:16 PM
Quote
On November 13(we don't know that for sure but I believe it is correct)


The source said Nov 15, not 13?
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on March 24, 2009, 12:53:45 PM
The Timeline says(and has for weeks if not months) that they arrive in Phuket the morning of Nov. 15, so I picked that out of my memory incorrectly and made the statement "Nov. 13 ... I believe is correct"(it was the date of arrival into Jaipur, not Phuket).  So you are correct on that. The departure and arrival times have been corrected above, but again it's a bit of why bother since they are only a few minutes different. What does matter is if any team made it in the night before, which gives them a one to two hour edge given the Phuket Zoo hours of operation. That is what we need to know and don't.

Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: georgiapeach on March 24, 2009, 01:00:45 PM
Well, if T/V and Mel/M were teams 1 and 2 in India, and that is the flight they are on, isn't it relatively safe to say that that most likely represents the first available flight? ???
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on March 24, 2009, 01:51:33 PM
Here's one flight combination that the lead teams missed:
IX195 to Dubai: 1040-1220, KL167 to Singapore: 1635-0350, MI750 to Phuket 0710-0755

Even if TPTB mandates a connection in Delhi, teams (assuming a 12-hour Pit Stop) still have plenty of time for:
G8111 to Delhi: 0855-0935, MH185 to Kuala Lumpur: 1220-2010, MH609 to Singapore: 2245-2340, MI750 to Phuket 0710-0755

With the morning sun still shining when Tammy/Victor check in, I suppose we'd be having something along the lines of a 24-hour Pit Stop?

Phil doesn't need the extra time, he arrived in Phuket on the morning of the 14th (after an overnight Delhi-Bangkok flight). I think production is deliberately trying to avoid Hours of Operation bunching! Which still doesn't explain the very strange Salzburg extension...
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: DrRox on March 24, 2009, 03:49:29 PM
When would Production get Jodi/Christie out of Jaipur. Since they are out, would they let them rest there in Jaipur and leave after the teams or send them out ahead of the teams to Ko Samui?
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: georgiapeach on March 24, 2009, 04:02:32 PM
Nice entry on this leg's travel:

http://hasbrouck.org/blog/archives/001660.html
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on March 29, 2009, 09:10:58 PM
Jaipur looks like a 24-hour Pit Stop to me! (Would Chateau care to check? :jam:)

Straight-forward flights this leg...

IC895 to Delhi Intl Airport, India: 1815-1855
IC853 to Bangkok Intl Airport, Thailand: 0005-0530 OR
TG316 to Bangkok Intl Airport, Thailand: 0005-0535
TG203 to Phuket Intl Airport, Thailand: 0730-0850

Edited to clarify which Pit Stop I think was the 24-hour.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: georgiapeach on March 29, 2009, 09:12:58 PM
Phuket? Was a 12 hour...
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on March 30, 2009, 12:43:18 AM
Next leg is run in the daylight, and with the first bus from Phuket to Bangkok arriving only around sunset, we're pretty much definitely flying to the capital. So much for "less airports".

If it's a 12-hour Pit Stop, looks like everyone can make it in time for Apskip's first flight at 7.25am!

And... confirmation that Novosibirsk was a 36-hour-ish Pit Stop! (With help from Puck on TWoP.)
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: TARAsia Fan on March 30, 2009, 06:57:20 AM
Novosibirsk had a blizzard so that delayed the racers from getting out.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on March 30, 2009, 07:41:27 AM
I confirm that it was a 24 hour pit stop in Jaipur. That means that Tammy/Victor did the leg in under 4 hours, everyone else in just under 5 hours.

I also confirm Neobie's flights, with the addition of an alternate first flight JAI DEL IC4302 1900 2005 if all teams could not get IC895.

Neobie, I show IC853 and AI9853 as the same code-shared flight. Also, I show TG316 as departing Friday night 2330 rather than Saturday at 0005 and arriving at 0525am.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on March 31, 2009, 11:13:31 PM
Quote from: TARinChina on the CBS boards
We were in the Guangzhou China airport November 17th around 11pm and saw a team of two caucasian men wearing backpacks running through the airport with a cameraman and producer in tow. They were in the baggage claim area and were in a hurry to find something and stopped at hte information desk to ask directions. The cameraman was working to capture every move. The men were both short and appeared to be related. One had a fanny pack that was visible with red/yellow/back horizontal stripes on it. We went up to them and said "Are you with the Amazing Race?". They said "No", but we are waiting for cast pictures to see if they were telling the truth or not.

The best flights from Bangkok to Guilin on the 17th are (edited in new flights in bold):
MU548 / MU5379 (0200-1210) through Shanghai (airport change in Shanghai)
FM9446 / MF8404 (0305-1250) through Chongqing

FD3600 / NX192 (0700-1410) through Macau
MU542 / FM9331 (0900-1855) through Shanghai (airport change in Shanghai)
CX750 / KA700 (1155-1925) OR UL422 / KA700 (1315-1925) through Hong Kong
EK384 / CZ3032 (1320-2050) OR CI832 / CZ3032 (1445-2050) through Hong Kong
ET606 / CZ3303 (1430-2130) OR TG678 / CZ3303 (1520-2130) through Guangzhou
TG678 / ZH9669 (1520-2225) through Guangzhou (Apskip's flight)
CZ364 (1820-2200) / CZ3234 (2305-2355) through Guangzhou (Mark/Michael?)


And one of Phil's possible escape routes on the 16th:
CZ364 / CZ3234 (1820-0035) through Guangzhou

1. The Pit Stop in Guilin was set up at 6pm and check-ins ended at about 3am.
2. There may be a short extension (Phuket or Bangkok) for teams to miss the 7am, giving Phil a day's headstart.
3. Any longer extension is unlikely, as it drags the Guilin leg deep into the night.
4. CZ364 / CZ3234 is the last combination to arrive in Guilin before 3am.
5. Are Mark/Michael toast? Are they behind this upcoming Bangkok leg? Is Guilin over, before it begins?



Some headscratchers with regard to Beijing-Honolulu:

We were flying on an Air China/ANA code share from Beijing to Tokyo on the 21st of November, flight later ID’d as CA925/NH5702 0930-1350. At the terminal we discovered we had ended up on the same flight as the cheerleaders (Cara/Jaime) and the Mom/son (Margie/Luke).

Those two teams split in a different direction once we left the plane in Tokyo as we went for our (personal info removed) flight and they went to Hawaii (overheard them saying) and they went onward.

We then came across Phil at the JAL transfer desk in Tokyo. He was actually traveling with Tammy/Victor and BVM. insert: They were ahead of us in line.

Once past the transfer desk we had to go downstairs to the Bus station to transfer to another Terminal where we again came across Phil and Tammy/Victor. We rode the bus with them to the other terminal and then lost them in the chaos that is Narita airport.

1. The CA925 that Cara/Jaime and Margie/Luke were on lands at Terminal 1S. The earliest flight to Honolulu that day is JO76 (1845-0635), departing from Terminal 2. If the two teams were headed for the earliest flight, why didn't they follow to the JAL transfer desk and do what Phil was doing? Are they lost, or on a later flight to Honolulu?

2. The only earlier flight arriving from Beijing into Terminal 1 is NH956 (0845-1305). That must have been Phil's flight. There is an earlier flight, JL780 (0825-1245), landing at Terminal 2. If Phil wanted to avoid Tammy/Victor on the Beijing-Tokyo leg for non-interference issues, he could have. This in addition to him switching airlines at Tokyo, when he could have got a smoother transfer and possibly a cheaper ticket using JAL - codes JL and JO - the entire way. Is there any significance to this?
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Zack. on April 01, 2009, 07:29:18 AM
Quote
5. Are Mark/Michael toast? Are they behind this upcoming Bangkok leg? Is Guilin over, before it begins?

The preview (and web clues) imply Mark/Michael lose their belongings (and/or a lot of time to recover said belongings). Given that Phuket wasn't an NEL  :'(, that would make Bangkok almost certainly an NEL (unless they're going to have consecutive NELs or even a F3 NEL). I'm not a betting man, but I'd say barring a miracle, the brothers are toast.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Moo on April 01, 2009, 08:56:46 AM
Quote
5. Are Mark/Michael toast? Are they behind this upcoming Bangkok leg? Is Guilin over, before it begins?

The preview (and web clues) imply Mark/Michael lose their belongings (and/or a lot of time to recover said belongings). Given that Phuket wasn't an NEL  :'(, that would make Bangkok almost certainly an NEL (unless they're going to have consecutive NELs or even a F3 NEL). I'm not a betting man, but I'd say barring a miracle, the brothers are toast.

It would be quite entertaining to have a speedbump and a u-turn in the final leg.  :lol: but TPTB would be too sadistic to do that!
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Moo on April 01, 2009, 09:09:58 AM

2. The only earlier flight arriving from Beijing into Terminal 1 is NH956 (0845-1305). That must have been Phil's flight. There is an earlier flight, JL780 (0825-1245), landing at Terminal 2. If Phil wanted to avoid Tammy/Victor on the Beijing-Tokyo leg for non-interference issues, he could have. This in addition to him switching airlines at Tokyo, when he could have got a smoother transfer and possibly a cheaper ticket using JAL - codes JL and JO - the entire way. Is there any significance to this?

Does this mean T/V's toast? Oh no... :'(

But could it be that T/V incidentally sees the production, thus deciding to get ahead by purchasing tickets in JAL aside from a "later flight to Honolulu"? Or don't production have pre-purchased tickets already? It's the most logical thing to have, a last minute change in airlines could be to costy for production, provided Phil and BVM flies business class...

If T/V would be included in the F3, the only way they're together is that they found Phil/BVM hanging around JAL and thus got an idea to join in to surge ahead?

Neobie, are there other flights later to leave for Honolulu after the 1845 flight without any significant time intervals?
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on April 01, 2009, 05:01:56 PM
Here are the Friday evening Tokyo-Honolulu flights, with JAL flights highlighted in red:

JO76: 1845-0635
JO8090: 1915-0645
UA880: 1925-0710
CI18: 1930-0720
NW96: 2010-0745
NW30: 2010-0745
NQ1052: 2055-0845
NW22: 2055-0845
JO74: 2100-0850
JO72: 2200-0950


Would Cara/Jaime and Margie/Luke actually fail to get on the first two flights? And if so, how would they?
If Tammy/Victor are still in the running, they would have outright beat them to begin the final leg...

We've seen some trouble with Tokyo-Honolulu flights in TAR6 before, haven't we? Flights with "no meals", Kendra's dying child...
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: puddin on April 01, 2009, 05:46:03 PM
I'm rewatching ep7 and spotted this fwiw  ..

http://taipan.st/contactmap.html
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Slowhatch on April 01, 2009, 07:48:29 PM
The teams were dumped, for unknown reasons, at the end of Bangla road, right next to the new Rock City bar. A few frames later, they're all on the beach road asking locals.
Did the drivers all think they wanted the Rock City gorilla? Did they assume foreign tourists all want to go to Patong? I don't know.  :duno:  Also:
Quote from: Mel
Is this Patong beach?
When Mel says that, we get a glimpse of the Patong mosque (compare to here (http://www.mapjack.com/?eWnwToSvWciE)). You would catch that if your cab was coming west from Phuket city. At first I thought they were getting the runaround, but after checking direction pages from Patong hotels the route seems quicker than hugging the western shore.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Moo on April 02, 2009, 05:49:23 AM
Here are the Friday evening Tokyo-Honolulu flights, with JAL flights highlighted in red:

JO76: 1845-0635
JO8090: 1915-0645
UA880: 1925-0710
CI18: 1930-0720
NW96: 2010-0745
NW30: 2010-0745
NQ1052: 2055-0845
NW22: 2055-0845
JO74: 2100-0850
JO72: 2200-0950


Would Cara/Jaime and Margie/Luke actually fail to get on the first two flights? And if so, how would they?
If Tammy/Victor are still in the running, they would have outright beat them to begin the final leg...

We've seen some trouble with Tokyo-Honolulu flights in TAR6 before, haven't we? Flights with "no meals", Kendra's dying child...

Tokyo airport scenes are usually for good laughs in the Final Leg...  :jumpy: Sad to see that they would have less airport footages this season, hope that this doesn't make the cut.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: TARAsia Fan on April 02, 2009, 09:53:51 AM
One of my favorite airport scenes was in TAR 12 in the insider clips when Ron was ragging on the French at Charles De Gaulle airport. Christina was like, "Daddy! Daddy, stop it, they can hear you."

Of course, Ron just kept on going. :lol:
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on April 03, 2009, 07:55:16 AM
I want to bring some additional information to bear on the debate on what was going on in Narita Airport on Nov. 22. First, let's look at it from the perspective of the departures to Honolulu. There are nine of them (see below) between 1845 and 2200. So teams must arrive no later than 9pm to get the last of those, JO22 departing at 2200. Teams can arrive whenever, so logically they would want the ealiest nonstop flight out of Beijing after they have been released from the pitstop. The possilbilities (I did not list any of these but the China Air ones previously but I believe Neobie did list them all previously) without doublecounting the codeshares are:

JL780 0825 1255
NH956 0830 1300
NW30 0900 1340
CA925 0925 1355
CA167 1325 1800
NH906 1445 1915
JL782 1520 1950
CA421 1640 2100

We know from an eyewitness report that one or more lead teams were on CA925 due to spotting at an Air China gate in Narita around 2pm. That flight would allow teams their pick of available seats starting at 1845 JO76 departure. Anything arriving after that would not have connect time in Narita and would not be bookable, although it is possible that teams could actually make JO76 from CA167 if they are lucky.

NRT to HNL
JO76 1845 0645+1
UA880 1945 0736+1
NW30 2000 0805  Note that this is a continuation of the ealier flight from PEK to NRT with a 6 hour 20 minute layover
NW22 2055 0845+1
NH1052 2055 0915+1
JO74 2100 0900+1
JO72 2200 1000+1
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on April 12, 2009, 09:25:49 PM
Need sunrise/sunset and flight expertise! This is looking absurd - I'm not half sure if I'm doing this correctly!

Sunset in Guilin on 17 Nov 2008 was at 5.50pm, and at least three teams checked in before that.

The last combination from Bangkok arriving before 5.50pm is FD3600 / NX192 (0700-1410) through Macau.
Mark and Michael are presumably on CZ364 / CZ3234 (1820-2355).

They're 10 hours behind?
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: DrRox on April 12, 2009, 09:36:44 PM
Well they could have kept that place open to just eliminate Mark/Mike when they go there. Sort of like Peggy and Claire.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on April 13, 2009, 08:08:34 AM
Need sunrise/sunset and flight expertise! This is looking absurd - I'm not half sure if I'm doing this correctly!

Sunset in Guilin on 17 Nov 2008 was at 5.50pm, and at least three teams checked in before that.

The last combination from Bangkok arriving before 5.50pm is FD3600 / NX192 (0700-1410) through Macau.
Mark and Michael are presumably on CZ364 / CZ3234 (1820-2355).

They're 10 hours behind?

Neobie, that quite right. Here is the way it comes down:

Teams arrive Bangkok airport and reach the pit stop in Bangkok maybe 12pm(Margie/Luke) to 130pm (Mark/Michael) to Kisha/Jen 50 minutes later at maybe 220pm. Mark/Michael get a 4 hour penalty that expires after the pit stop time at 530am assuming the 12 hour pit stop which is necessary to make activities photographed in daylight so. So allowing about 1 hour to get there, teams will get to Bangkok airport maybe like this:

Margie/Luke 100am
Jaime/Cara and Tammy/Victor maybe 130am
Kisha/Jen 320am
Mark/Michael 630am

That last time is critical because all the other teams should have no difficulty getting on the first flight combination, FD3600 / NX192 (0700-1410) through Macau, if available. Mark/Michael will miss it. Now the question is why can't they get on one of these:

CX750 / KA700 (1155-1925)  through Hong Kong
EK384 / CZ3032 (1320-2050) through Hong Kong
ET606 / CZ3303 (1430-2130)  through Guangzhou
TG678 / ZH9669 (1520-2225) through Guangzhou

and why have they not taken any of those 4 flight combinations and are stuck with CZ364 (1820-2200) / CZ3234 (2305-2355) through Guangzhou?

It is really moot because all other teams would finish all tasks and reach the Guilin pit stop long before the arrival of Mark/Michael on any of the above flight combinations except for the 7am flight


Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on April 18, 2009, 10:00:45 PM
This shot mysteriously appeared in "Bangkok" last week, but... hey that's not Thai!

(http://i39.[banned image hosting site].com/30m5vug.jpg)
Sign from Guilin Airport (Beijing signs are different)

Macau and Hong Kong flights arrive in International. If the brothers didn't arrive from Guangzhou, where was this shot from?

A cross-airport transfer at Shanghai (at rush hour at that) is risky and very unlikely, since the two airports are on the far ends of town. If there are no flights we haven't found, we have a lead pack going through Chongqing (giving us the domestic arrival), and the Tweedles going through Macau.

- Margie/Luke depart at 2345 (assumes 12h Pit Stop) -
MU548 / MU5379 (0200-1210) through Shanghai (2h40 for transfer)
FM9446 / MF8404 (0305-1250) through Chongqing
- Brothers depart after 0345, with 4h penalty starting after Margie/Luke check in -
FD3600 / NX192 (0700-1410) through Macau
- Sunset at 1750 -

But where then does Guangzhou come from? The date and description of the team seem legit, and that came before details of the leg were publicized. Maybe the Tweedles are simply a day behind?
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: puddin on April 18, 2009, 10:43:35 PM
A day behind and TPTB let them finish up the challenges? I dunno? I mean they let Brad and Victoria finish up but they were not a day behind. Didn't the China blog state that production left that night ..........or something? I have to go re-read. Or did we/I just stumble upon the Guangzhou sighting and get lucky that that the Brothers made final 5! LOL
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: puddin on April 18, 2009, 10:45:28 PM
I know you don't need reminding Neobie but I do  :lol:

You mean like this peach? :angel: << sorry  :lol:

Quote
他们真的是来桂林了的`````````` 
 我男朋友协助他们的.......开始他不知道..后来他和我说就知道是急速```因为我常看..是住喜来登 ` ` 主持人在日月双塔那等选手  去了叠彩山..还有个钢厂...当天晚上飞了...好象为了保密所有工作人员要等他门上飞机才能离开岗位..好像还到一个理发店克洗头  ..我觉得是克那拿线索...还有我男友讲那主持人真人好高 好帅......知道的就这么多...反正真的假的以后那集出了大家就知道了`  ` 因为大家都喜欢急速前进嘛

Quote
They did come to Guilin...

My boyfriend worked as an assistant, and didn't know that it was TAR until I told him afterwards - I watch it all the time.

They stayed at the Sheraton, and the host was waiting for the contestants at the Sun Moon Towers. They also went to the Diecai (Folded Brocade) Mountains and a steel factory.

They flew off that night, but the crew had to wait for everyone to get on the plane before they could leave their posts, probably for privacy.

I think they went to a salon to wash hair - but maybe it was just to get a clue. My boyfriend says that the host was tall and handsome.

That's all I know, you'd all find out for sure when the episode airs! 'Cause we all love TAR!

They flew off that night? Probably just Phil then? If they're flying to Beijing we should be expecting a 36-hour Pit Stop.

So for tasks we have the hair salon, comorants (riverside where Jen and Luke are fighting - and YAY!), something to do with the notebook and something to get LaKisha's hands dirty. We also have our Pit Stop, the Old South Gate, a steel factory and the very bizzare Folded Brocade Mountains.

That's a lot to fit in!
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on April 18, 2009, 11:46:32 PM
On whether the brothers have already been eliminated and are on their way to Beijing: There's a direct to Beijing from Guilin departing ten minutes before the last flight to Guangzhou. Saving money becomes the priority after elimination, so I'm thinking they would have taken a direct. No reason to be in baggage claim either if they're not going from Intl to Domestic.

The Folded Brocade Mountains
aka Diecai Shan, aka Di-Tsai Mountain, aka Peak of the Luminous Moon, aka Bright Moon Peak, aka Mingyue Feng


We've had reports from the Girlfriend ^ and from the Props Girl; confirmation from the park staff and from the travel agency organizing the leg; and plenty of eyewitnesses to boot. In fact, we got the date of 17 Nov from there, way back in... November. We know the Mountains are on our race. But where do they come into place?

Remember, production sealed off the place after 6pm, and there are reports of activity at 3am. With everyone checking in in the daytime, could this be the start of our next leg? It'd rob production of a 36h rest though, and could push our "they flew off that night" onto the 18th - but that's a bit of a stretch...
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: DrRox on April 19, 2009, 08:09:05 PM
Well, looks like they had a 20-21 hour pit stop in Bangkok. But I dont understand how they all left Guangzhou at about 9 pm and arrived in Guilin at sunup or there abouts.

Well, it looks like to me, that TPTB burned up that missing 24 hours with the late departure from Bangkok and the long overnight "holding pen" at the Brocade Mountain in Guilin.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on April 19, 2009, 10:28:05 PM
Dr. Rox, I am goign to disagree with you. Previous discussion on another thread indicates that the approximate pit stop check-in for Margie/Luke was around1145am. I modify that to 1135am and that means a 22 hour pit stop, weird but so be it.

On the question of flights, the later departure time drastically impacted what choices teams had, with those choices restriced by being forced by the clue to connect in Guangzhou(why this was specified I don't know):
Margie/Luke-  CZ362 BKK CAN 1120 1505 connecting to CZ3303 CAN KWL 2035 2130
Jaime/Cara and Tammy/Victor - KQ924 BKK CAN 1315 1710  connecting to the same CZ3303
Kisha/Jen -   TG715 BKK CAN 1525  1915 connecting to Shenzhen 8627 CAN KWL 2110 2210
Mark/Michael -  CZ364 BKK CAN 1855 2230  missing the last flight to Guilin by a minimum of 80 minutes and being forced the next morning to take CZ3232 0940+1 1040+1. This squares with the screenshot of them landing in daylight in Guilin


Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on April 19, 2009, 10:51:33 PM
It was a evil ploy by the producers to get everyone snagged on the hours of operation.

Releasing Margie and Luke at 9.36am is perfectly timed for them to miss TG668 leaving at 9.50am, arriving in Guangzhou at 1.30pm. In a shorter Pit Stop and with nothing to lose, teams would then try for CA4382 (2.20pm-3.20pm) to Guilin. It's a tight connection that teams would probably miss, but if they made it they'd make Phil very unhappy.

Banning the Macau and Hong Kong flights on top of the Pit Stop shift makes it impossible for teams to arrive before 9.30pm, giving Phil an entire day to slack around in Guilin. (Yes - I'm a small government kind of person!)

I've got a time of 6.20pm-10.00pm for Mark/Michael's CZ364 from Bangkok to Guangzhou (teeny bit earlier than Apskip's timing), which would allow them to try for CZ3234 (11.05pm-11.55pm) onward to Guilin. That's where we get our baggage claim sighting at around 11pm, when they're exiting International and headed for Domestic. They apparently missed it - and I've got an earliest flight of ZH9637 (7.40am-8.45am) the next day. The leg might have turned out very different if they caught it!

Guess we'd have to plan for mandatory connection cities in the future, huh?
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: puddin on April 19, 2009, 11:03:40 PM
So you agree the Hours of op is where we would have seen......?
Quote
The Folded Brocade Mountains
aka Diecai Shan, aka Di-Tsai Mountain, aka Peak of the Luminous Moon, aka Bright Moon Peak, aka Mingyue Feng

Looking forward to the insider clips .....
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: DrRox on April 19, 2009, 11:20:02 PM
Ms Puddin, I just think it was an isolated "holding pen," similiar to the church in Locarno, where TPTB took all the teams to pass the night. I will have to go back and look at my DVR, it is seemed to me that the first 4 teams all landed in Guilin in the dark, but it was light when they walked out of the airport to get taxis.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: puddin on April 19, 2009, 11:22:11 PM
Drums of life ............
http://forum.realityfanforum.com/index.php/topic,18620.msg390259.html#msg390259
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on April 24, 2009, 04:40:33 AM
The evening flights from Guilin to Beijing on Nov 18th were at:

CZ 3287   17:10-19:50  (5:10 pm-7:50 pm)
CA 1226   21:05-00:05 (9:05 pm-12:05 am)

Morning of Nov 19th flights were:
CZ 3281   9:00-11:25
CA 1312   11:45-14:35 (11:45 am-2:35 pm)

Since the activities appear to be all at night, that would (to me) preclude the morning flights on Nov 19th. So I think that TPTB will give us a shortened pit stop this episode, in order for the 4 teams to make the last flight to Beijing and another bunching point.

Maybe not a shorter than 12h Pit Stop, but an extended one, with teams racing Beijing I on the evening of the 19th? Gives Phil the entire day to film his exposition, and there's still enough time after that for us to complete the race.

With Mark/Michael arriving in Guilin at 8.45am and checking in half an hour behind Jaime/Cara, taking even the most generous estimates we would require the teams to have only an 8h break to be able to make the 9.05pm flight to Beijing (with 0.5h between the airport and the city, 2h for the Guilin tasks, and 0.5h check-in requirement).

So far only Stechelberg and Phuket were the standard 12h, and Bran and Novosibirsk 36's (both so Phil can get ahead).
Salzburg was ~20h for an unknown reason.
Krasnoyarsk was ~24h to bunch teams on the night train.
Jaipur was ~24h to let Phil fly one day ahead.
Phuket Bangkok was ~22h, a very calculated timing to bunch teams at the Folded Brocade Mtns. (Thanks DrRox.)
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Ray! on April 24, 2009, 04:46:40 AM
They could have a 24-hour Pitstop and go for the 11:45 am flight. There might be other tasks not aired which are performed in the mid-late afternoon, and then we have the tasks shown which are performed after that, and by that time, night has fallen. (a la TAR13 India leg 1)
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: DrRox on April 24, 2009, 05:23:25 AM

We were flying on an Air China/ANA code share from Beijing to Tokyo on the 21st of November, flight later ID’d as CA925/NH5702 0930-1350.


So if they left Beijing on the morning of Nov 21st, would not they land in Hawaii on Nov 21st? With the international date line, you gain a day, ie, you get a one extra "Ground Hog Day," when going from Aisa to Hawaii. No?
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: DrRox on April 24, 2009, 06:12:59 AM
The evening flights from Guilin to Beijing on Nov 18th were at:

CZ 3287   17:10-19:50  (5:10 pm-7:50 pm)
CA 1226   21:05-00:05 (9:05 pm-12:05 am)

Morning of Nov 19th flights were:
CZ 3281   9:00-11:25
CA 1312   11:45-14:35 (11:45 am-2:35 pm)

Since the activities appear to be all at night, that would (to me) preclude the morning flights on Nov 19th. So I think that TPTB will give us a shortened pit stop this episode, in order for the 4 teams to make the last flight to Beijing and another bunching point.

Maybe not a shorter than 12h Pit Stop, but an extended one, with teams racing Beijing I on the evening of the 19th? Gives Phil the entire day to film his exposition, and there's still enough time after that for us to complete the race.

With Mark/Michael arriving in Guilin at 8.45am and checking in half an hour behind Jaime/Cara, taking even the most generous estimates we would require the teams to have only an 8h break to be able to make the 9.05pm flight to Beijing (with 0.5h between the airport and the city, 2h for the Guilin tasks, and 0.5h check-in requirement).

So far only Stechelberg and Phuket were the standard 12h, and Bran and Novosibirsk 36's (both so Phil can get ahead).
Salzburg was ~20h for an unknown reason.
Krasnoyarsk was ~24h to bunch teams on the night train.
Jaipur was ~24h to let Phil fly one day ahead.
Bangkok was ~22h, a very calculated timing to bunch teams at the Folded Brocade Mtns.

I had thought about your scenairo, but I keep coming back to this......

a girl said her boyfriend helped the production, seemed like to be one of the local assistant.
she claimed that when her bf told her that, she instantly thought about TAR and could confirm that.

they lived in Sheraton and the pit top was Sun-Moon-Tower.
and a mountain named Di-Tsai was also visited.
They also have been to a steel factory.
It was also said teams had to go to a hair salon to wash their hair.
Phil was described very tall and handsome by her bf.

And for security reasons, all assistants have been asked to remain their position after everyone is on the plane, they left the same day.
so far, no photo evidence.

Phil could catch [CZ 3287   17:10-19:50  (5:10 pm-7:50 pm)] and have plenty of time to do his standups. I haven't checked, but I feel sure he could have made an even earlier flight to Beijing, via Shanghai, and gotten there earlier. There are a lot of flights between Shaanghai and Beijing every day. Unless that translation is wrong, it says everyone left on the evening of the 18th, if I am not mistaken. It sure seems quick to me, though.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on April 24, 2009, 01:02:51 PM
Phil likes to have an entire day ahead of the field, but there are exceptions, of course.
(Exceptions have always been on "domestic" legs, though.)

Leg One: Skipped Locarno and arrived in Interlaken a day before racers.
Leg Two: Exception. Barely ahead of racers.
Leg Three: Arrived in Bucharest in the morning while teams were held back by extended Pit Stop. Teams arrived in the evening.
Arrived in Bran that evening, while teams finished the second half of the leg and checked in mid-morning the next day.
Leg Four: 36h Pit Stop gave Phil an entire day's headstart.
Leg Five: A delayed Pit Start and a train that runs once a day gives Phil a day's headstart.
Leg Six: 36h Pit Stop gives another day's headstart to Phil.
Leg Seven: Spoilers have Phil arriving exactly one day before teams.
Leg Eight: Exception. Wasn't too far ahead. Could have arrived the night before, but Phil seldom does standups in the dark.
Leg Nine: Extended Pit Stop allows Phil to arrive in Guilin in the morning, while teams are stuck at HoO that evening.


If teams are racing on the night of the 18th after a shortened Pit Stop, Phil would only have say two hours for a lead, and he'd have to do his standups at night. It's three improbables compounded, so I'm thinking it might not be too likely? I think we're looking at:
19/11: Afternoon release for an evening Beijing I.
20/11: Daytime Beijing II, so there's a contrast between the two legs (like Delhi).
21/11: Early morning release, flights to Hawaii.
21/11 again: Arrive in Hawaii in the morning, finish by the afternoon.


Flights the next day are (Apskip and DrRox have it already, just a recap):
CZ3281 0900-1125
CA1312 1145-1435
CZ3239 / CA1368: 1200-1710 (1h10 connection in Shenzhen)
CZ3239 / CZ3189: 1200-1840 (2h35 connection in Shenzhen)
:cow 5h10min gap to snag teams :cow
CZ3287 1710-1950
CA1226 2105-0005


After all that, here's my lucky guess:
Release between 11.00am and 4.10pm on the 19th, arrival in Beijing at 7.50pm for an evening leg.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on April 24, 2009, 02:08:02 PM
It's been one month, so it's time to have a current version of the AR14 Timeline.

AR14 Timeline(revised on 4/30):
First, a note of appreciation for Dr. Rox, who pointed out my error on legs 11 and 12 resulting in my listing Nov. 22 as the departure from Beijing when it was previously listed here in my Feb. 5 and 6 versions as Nov. 21, which is correct.
 
Oct. 31 leg 1 depart U.S. for Locarno, Switzerland via Frankfurt and Zurich or via Milan:

LAX to Milan-Malpensa(MXP) as follows: AF75 LAX CDG 1600 0930+1, connecting with AF4806 CDG MXP 1125+1 1305+1     
Here are the schedules in the same time frame:
take taxi to Chiasso, the first train station in Switzerland. Schedules to Locarno would be:
depart Chiasso 1500 arrive Locarno 1613
depart Chiasso 1533 arrive Locarno 1657
depart Chiasso 1603 arrive Locarno 1727 
 
From LAX to Zurich via Frankfurt we have the interesting combination:
LH457  LAX FRA  1535 1025+1 connecting with LH3726   FRA ZRH  1200 1255

There are 10 nonstop flights on Saturday between Frankfurt and Zurich, so if any are delayed there are alternatives.

The train schedule from Zurich to Bellinzona to Locarno indicates that 3 1/4 hours is required. Here it is:
de.Zurich 1402 arrive Arth-Goldau 1446 dep. 1448 arr. Bellinzona 1623 dep. 1630 arrive Locarno 1657

Nov. 1 arrive mid-morning in Europe and reach Locarn late afternoon afternoon; then sign up for 0715, 0730 or 0745am departures; then sleep overnight;
Nov. 2 Verzasca Dam bungee jump then Locarno to Domodossola to Spiez to Interlaken by train;
schedule for a leading team:
dep. Locarno 0903 arr. Bellinzona 0927
dep. Bellnizona 0936 arr. Lucerne 1141 via the St. Gotthard Tunnel
dep. Lucerne 1155 arr. Interlaken Ost 1355
this is nearly a 5 hour trip;

schedule for good train (taken by Brad/Victoria and lagging teams get there in time to take it):
dep. Locarno 1042 arr. Domodossola 1230
dep. Domodossola 1248 arr. Spiez 1353
dep. Spiez 1403 arr. Interlaken West 1423
total trip is 4 hours train;
other teams go earlier and get there slightly earlier(except for Christie/Jodi who get a circuitous route 1 1/4 hours hours earlier but arrive later or teams that are behind Brad/Victoria);

Interlaken tasks;
Interlaken area (Stechelberg) pit stop

Nov. 3 leg 2 Interlaken by tasi directl to Zurich airport, then plane to Salzburg:
 
From Interlaken to Munich, the early morning Monday(as in Nov.3) flights are:
LX1100 ZRH MUC 0710 0815
LX3616 ZRH MUC 0845 0945

then self-drive less than an hour to Ruhpolding
Tasks in Raushberg near Ruhpolding parasailing, 25 mile drive to Schnoau am Kongisee for tasks, then
Evening Extedned 18 hour Pit stop in Salzburg at Schloss Hellbrunn

Nov. 4  begin leg 3;
Salzburg to Bucharest starts with driving to Alzburg rail station, getting on a train to Munich and switching there to an airport train. The schedules from Salzburg  all the way to MUchich Flughafen (on average once per hour) are:

1103 1317
1152 1417
1303 1526
1314 1537
1352 1557
1441 1657
1552 1757
1617 1827
Flight choices depend on arrival at Munich Airport. Tammy/Victor initially get LH3480 1525 1825 but then it comes back with a mechanical problem.
RO312 1645 1945 is taken by 3 teams.
LH3424 2130 0025+1 is taken by everyone else except Brad/Victoria
Brad/Victoria attempt to get 15 minutes ahead of the alst group by going MUC AMS and AMS OTP but delays on the flight into Amsterdam doom them to not departing until the KLM nonstop the next morning and not arriving into Bucharest until after 1pm.

Nov. 5 arrival in Bucharest after midnight; transfer to train to get to Brasov
morning train departures: Bucharest Nord 2358 arr. Brasov 0246  or  dep. 0630 0922  or  dep. 0730 1019  or  dep. 0616 1051(note: nobody would want this) or  0830 1124  or  0942 1254  or  1130 1404

tasks in Brasov and nearby Transylvania
extended pit stop in Transylvania (includes Brasov)

Nov. 7 leg 4  leave Transylvania for Krasnojarsk, Siberia
return to Bucharest, then choice of:

TK1444  OTP IST RO261 0825 0955 connecting in Istanbul to SU208 SVO 1255 1705 

OTP SOFIA RO293 0820 0920, connecting to SOF SVO SU162 1240 1630

OTP FRA LH3417 0610 0750 or RO321 0910 1050, either connecting to SU106 FRA SVO 1405 1910 

OTP MUC LH3425 0700 0810, connecting to SU122 MUC SVO 1310 1825 

OTP IST RO261 0825 0955. connecting to TK1415 IST SVO 1335 1740,
connecting at Moscow-Sheremetyevo to SU779 SVO KJA 2055 0540+1 OR
SU781 0045+1 0910+1

Nov. 8 do tasks
pit stop

Nov. 9
leg 5 begins allowing teams to board TransSiberian Express in late afternoon
Here is the train selected by WRP from Krasnojarsk to Novosibirsk on a weekday:

Dep.  Arr.No Duration
  
18:26   06:47  12:21     
   

I have no idea why teams had to wait for the 18:26 (Moscow time like the schedule) train, which would arrive Nov. 10 around 6:47am Moscow time (947am Novosibirsk time).

Nov. 10 TransSiberian Express arrival in Novosibirsk
tasks in Novosibirsk, Siberia
Extended 24 Hour pit stop

Nov. 12 leg 6 begins
flights Novosibirsk to Jaipur:

SU810 OVB SVO 0700 0815
KC872 SVO ALA 0920 1645
KC907 ALA Delhi DEL 1805 2115;

overnight at Delhi Airport

Nov. 13
There are 5 nonstop flights from Delhi to Jaipur on Wednesdays or Thursdays (Nov. 12 or 13). They are:

9W709 0545 0630
AI9896/IC896 0605 0645
IC7809 0700 0755
IT611 0930 1010
IT 2302 1930 2030

tasks in Jaipur area
pit stop

Nov. 14 leg 7 Fly Jaipur to Phuket
From Jaipur to Phuket late on Fridays:

9W372 JAI BOM  2040 2220 connecting AI6318  BOM BKK  2320 0520+1 connecting  TG201  BKK HKT  0720+1 0840+1

Nov. 15 see above
Phuket area tasks
pit stop

Nov. 16 leg 8 fly from Phuket to Bangkok
TG226 0725 0850
tasks in Bangkok area
Extended pit stop

Nov. 18 leg 9 fly from Bangkok to Guilin:
Margie/Luke-  CZ362 BKK CAN 1120 1505 connecting to CZ3303 CAN KWL 2035 2130, with late departure and arrival
Jaime/Cara and Tammy/Victor - KQ924 BKK CAN 1315 1710  connecting to the same CZ3303
Kisha/Jen -   TG715 BKK CAN 1525  1915 connecting to Shenzhen 8627 CAN KWL 2110 2210
Mark/Michael -  CZ364 BKK CAN 1855 2230  missing the last flight to Guilin taking CZ3232 0940+1 1040+1

tasks in Guilin;
pit stop

Nov. 19 leg 10 Guilin to Beijing flight choices:
CZ3287 1710 1950

then tasks in Beijing and start TBC, leg 11
probable Hours of Operation hit almost immediately

Nov. 20
leg 11 tasks
pitstop, probably starting before noon and 12 or18 hours

Nov. 21
leg 12 return from Beijing to U.S. for Finish Line in Hawaii via Tokyo
PEK to NRT:
JL780 0825 1255
NH956 0830 1300
NW30 0900 1340
CA925 0925 1355
CA167 1325 1800
NH906 1445 1915
JL782 1520 1950
CA421 1640 2100

NRT to HNL
JO76 1845 0645+1
UA880 1945 0736+1
NW30 2000 0805  Note that this is a continuation of the ealier flight from PEK to NRT with 6 hour 20 minute layover
NW22 2055 0845+1
NH1052 2055 0915+1
JO74 2100 0900+1
JO72 2200 0950+1

With the 6 hours 45 minute flying team and 5 hour time difference, these flights arrive HNL 0630 to 0950. The most logical choice to me would be UA880 NRT HNL 1925 0710+1. All these are same day due to crossing the International Date Line.

Finish Line on Maui, so teams will take a 36 or 37 minute flight Honolulu to Kahului.  There is at least one every hour from 5am to 9pm and several in some hours.
tasks
Finish Line

Note: this is a 22 day race.
 
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on April 24, 2009, 02:10:20 PM

We were flying on an Air China/ANA code share from Beijing to Tokyo on the 21st of November, flight later ID’d as CA925/NH5702 0930-1350.


So if they left Beijing on the morning of Nov 21st, would not they land in Hawaii on Nov 21st? With the international date line, you gain a day, ie, you get a one extra "Ground Hog Day," when going from Aisa to Hawaii. No?
Yes, of course you have it right. However, who says that they leave Nov. 22 from Beijing? Previous information put them departing (which would also mean landing) on Saturday Nov. 22.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: DrRox on April 24, 2009, 04:10:36 PM

We were flying on an Air China/ANA code share from Beijing to Tokyo on the 21st of November, flight later ID’d as CA925/NH5702 0930-1350.


So if they left Beijing on the morning of Nov 21st, would not they land in Hawaii on Nov 21st? With the international date line, you gain a day, ie, you get a one extra "Ground Hog Day," when going from Aisa to Hawaii. No?
Yes, of course you have it right. However, who says that they leave Nov. 22 from Beijing? Previous information put them departing (which would also mean landing) on Saturday Nov. 22.

As far as I know, you, apskip, are the only one that says they left on Nov 22nd. The blogger/spoiler says she was on the same flight with J/C and M/L on Nov 21st. After you go back and read Peach's post about her correspondence with the blogger, I guess you can always go back and "edit" all your timelines to match the Nov 21st departure from Beijing.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on April 24, 2009, 04:30:14 PM
Dr. Rox, as you may or may not know, I do not change Timelines to incorporate new pieces of "insider information" until I am darned well convinced that it is foolish not to. I did so for date of the Bangkok leg after there was enough evidence to make it quite likely that that was correct. I did the same on 1 vs. 2 legs in Switzerland.  I am nowhere close to that on the question of Nov. 21 vs. Nov. 22. I believe the only relevant issue is the amount of above-12 hour (extended) pitstop time between starting the Guilin pitstop and leaving Beijing.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: georgiapeach on April 24, 2009, 04:38:13 PM
I think apskip has the 22 day race correct. 10/31 + 21 days in November.

But the Nov 21 flight date comes from a very accurate source...

And more to the point, we already have the finale date and location confirmed: (100%)

http://forum.realityfanforum.com/index.php/topic,17788.msg380845.html#msg380845
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on April 24, 2009, 07:04:58 PM

We were flying on an Air China/ANA code share from Beijing to Tokyo on the 21st of November, flight later ID’d as CA925/NH5702 0930-1350.


So if they left Beijing on the morning of Nov 21st, would not they land in Hawaii on Nov 21st? With the international date line, you gain a day, ie, you get a one extra "Ground Hog Day," when going from Aisa to Hawaii. No?
Yes, of course you have it right. However, who says that they leave Nov. 22 from Beijing? Previous information put them departing (which would also mean landing) on Saturday Nov. 22.

As far as I know, you, apskip, are the only one that says they left on Nov 22nd. The blogger/spoiler says she was on the same flight with J/C and M/L on Nov 21st. After you go back and read Peach's post about her correspondence with the blogger, I guess you can always go back and "edit" all your timelines to match the Nov 21st departure from Beijing.

OK, so I traced my Timelines back for Feb. 6, which had the following:
Quote
Nov. 18 leg 10 fly probably form Bangkok to to Guilin
 Shenzen Air 9669 BKK CAN 2110 2225. The viable CAN KWL flights are TG668 0950 1330 and MS958 1310 1655.  
tasks in Guilin area
extended pit stop

Nov. 20 leg 11 Guilin to Beijing flight choices:
CZ3281 0900 1125
CA6312 1145 1435
CZ3287 1710 1950
CA1226 2105 0015

then tasks in Beijing and start regular pitstop

Nov. 21 leg 12 return from Beijing to U.S. for Finish Line in Hawaii via Tokyo
PEK NRT on Air China has several choices:
CA6651/NH956 0845 1305
CA925               0930 1350
CA167               1350 1750

Continuing on from Tokyo-Narita to Honolulu (NRT to HNL), there are 9 choices with departures between 645pm and 10pm. With the 6 hours 45 minute flying team and 5 hour time difference, these flights arrive HNL 0630 to 0950. The most logical choice to me would be UA880 NRT HNL 1925 0710+1. All these are same day due to crossing the International Date Line.

                        Finish Line on which Hawaiian island not known yet although I guess Oahu now for convenience

Note: this is a 22 day race.

My timelines of 2/5 AND 2/6 incorporated the change to 22 days and to Nov. 21. I somehow copied an earlier version when I revised it on 2/13 and that has been promulgated for the last 70 days. So the Nov. 21 version is in fact right. I will be revising the timeline revision just issued to bring it back to what it should have been over this period. The extended pitstop may be in either Guilin or Beijing. it depends on when teams fly from Guilin to Beijing.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on April 24, 2009, 11:43:28 PM
We've previously established that Beijing II was not a 36h Pit Stop. Here's why I think it was 12h and no more.
(Might be useful when we start guessing the arrival times for Beijing II.)

The following analysis assumes:
- It takes at least 5min to complete a leg.
- Pit Stops are never less than 12h.
- LaKisha/Jennifer are not hours behind in Beijing I.

Finding the earliest possible time the final leg starts:
1. If the Guilin Pit Stop is not shortened, Beijing I takes place on the 19th.
2. Kisha/Jen are still racing after sunset at 4.59pm.
3. Checking in after that time means a Beijing II start after 4.59am on the 20th.
4. Beijing II has to end after 5.04am (more likely around midday though).
5. Final leg begins after 5.04pm on the 20th.

Regarding the Beijing II Pit Stop:
6. Jaime/Cara/Margie/Luke catch CA925 (0930-1350) the next day to Tokyo.
7. There are no better flights between 5.04pm on the 20th and 9.30am on the 21st.
8. A Pit Stop delay can't help Phil get ahead, and may even cause de-bunching.
9. Therefore, it is unlikely that there will be a time extension at the Beijing II Pit Stop.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on April 25, 2009, 08:38:25 AM
We've previously established that Beijing II was not a 36h Pit Stop. Here's why I think it was 12h and no more.
(Might be useful when we start guessing the arrival times for Beijing II.)

The following analysis assumes:
- It takes at least 5min to complete a leg.
- Pit Stops are never less than 12h.
- LaKisha/Jennifer are not hours behind in Beijing I.

Finding the earliest possible time the final leg starts:
1. If the Guilin Pit Stop is not shortened, Beijing I takes place on the 19th.
2. Kisha/Jen are still racing after sunset at 4.59pm.
3. Checking in after that time means a Beijing II start after 4.59am on the 20th.
4. Beijing II has to end after 5.04am (more likely around midday though).
5. Final leg begins after 5.04pm on the 20th.

Regarding the Beijing II Pit Stop:
6. Jaime/Cara/Margie/Luke catch CA925 (0930-1350) the next day to Tokyo.
7. There are no better flights between 5.04pm on the 20th and 9.30am on the 21st.
8. A Pit Stop delay can't help Phil get ahead, and may even cause de-bunching.
9. Therefore, it is unlikely that there will be a time extension at the Beijing II Pit Stop.

Neobie:

Let's start with one of your fundamental premises: "Pitstops are never less than 12 hours."  What happened with the pit stop after the second Moscow leg in AR13? It was at most 7 hours. World Race Productions makes thing fit, even if it means breaking their usual policies. 12 hours or more pit stops is a policy, not a law of the Amazing Race. However, I will be assuming that it is at least 12 hours and see if that works.

Your 5 minute minimum leg time assumption is of course as absurb as you meant it to be. Without a FAST FORWARD, leg completion times are seldom less than 90 minutes for the fastest legs. I will use 2 hours as the minimum in this analysis.

So here is my attempt at making things fit, assuming there is no TBC:
1. We start with the fact that there must be leg 10 on Nov. 19, leg 11 on Nov. 20 and leg 12 starting Nov. 21, all in the Beijing area once the flight from Guilin happens. The departure from PEK must be no later than 1800 and most likely will be a morning flight because WRP always wants the earliest possible arrival to the finish line city(or in this case island).Those flights are:

JL780 0825 1255
NH956 0830 1300
NW30 0900 1340
CA925 0925 1355

2. In order to get a 825am departure, there should be about a leg completion time of 630pm on Nov. 20 with a 12 hour pit stop. Assume at least 2 hours for a leg and you get 430pm or earlier as the beginning of leg 11.

3. Now assume another 12 hour pit stop in front of that and you get a leg 10 completion time of earlier than 430pm on Nov. 19.

4. That means that all teams must be on one of the two morning flights from Guilin to Beijing:
CZ3281 0900 1125
CA6312 1145 1435

With a minimum 2 hour leg time, the latter is barely possible, so I believe that all teams will be on CZ3281.

5. In order to make it for a 9am departure, teams will have to be released from the Guilin pitstop before 7am on Nov. 19. that appears to be easy, as all should have completed leg 9 before noon.

I think I will modify the Timeline as needed to conform to this analysis.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on April 25, 2009, 09:22:08 AM
2. In order to get a 825am departure, there should be about a leg completion time of 630pm on Nov. 20 with a 12 hour pit stop. Assume at least 2 hours for a leg and you get 430am or earlier as the beginning of leg 11.

Aah, I think you added 12 hours accidentally there! You mean 4.30pm or earlier as the beginning of Leg 11, don't you?

Let's start with one of your fundamental premises: "Pitstops are never less than 12 hours."  What happened with the pit stop after the second Moscow leg in AR13? It was at most 7 hours. World Race Productions makes thing fit, even if it means breaking their usual policies. 12 more or mroe pit stops is a policy, not a law of the Amazing Race. However, I will be assuming that it is at least 12 hours and see if that works.

Darn, you might be right! Ken and Tina were released at 3.30am. Don't think it was as short as 7h (3.30am - 7h = 8.30pm), but maybe something like a 9 to 11h Pit Stop to make sure they catch the 7.05am flight to Portland? (According to Robyn they arrived between 4.30pm and 6.30pm.)

Looks like a "desperate measures for desperate times" kind of thing. (Can you imagine Nick/Starr racing with only Dandrew in the finals?) Would they break the "policy" only for final legs? This flexibility they're giving themselves is gonna hurt our calculations!



Back to Beijing, we know that Phil couldn't catch JL782/JO72 (1530-0930) on the 20th, which would have got him to Hawaii one day ahead. The Pit Stop's got to be in the afternoon or night of the 20th.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on April 26, 2009, 07:07:17 AM
Neobie, we cannot absolutely say that Phil after his Nov. 20 probably early afternoon pit stop could not catch  CA421 PEK NRT 1640 2100 and make a connection to JO72 NRT HNL 2200 (half hour later than you show) 1000+1. What I can say is that a 60 minute connection in Narita is very tight.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: georgiapeach on April 26, 2009, 07:33:45 AM
Neobie, we cannot absolutely say that Phil after his Nov. 20 probably early afternoon pit stop could not catch  CA421 PEK NRT 1640 2100 and make a connection to JO72 NRT HNL 2200 (half hour later than you show) 1000+1. What I can say is that a 60 minute connection in Narita is very tight.

Why can't we absolutely say that? We already KNOW that Phil is seen in Tokyo (Narita) airport on 11/21 sometime after CA925/NH5702 0930-1350 landed.


CA 925 details:
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb140/ga--peach/TAR%2014/TAR14ep12flightdetails.jpg)
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: georgiapeach on April 26, 2009, 10:42:05 AM

2. Kisha/Jen are still racing after sunset at 4.59pm.
3. Checking in after that time means a Beijing II start after 4.59am on the 20th.
.

I'm lost again...

Can you link me to the info showing K/J racing in Beijing first ep at this time please? ???
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on April 26, 2009, 11:05:23 AM
Can you link me to the info showing K/J racing in Beijing first ep [after 4.59am on the 20th] please?

Mark and Michael arrived in Guilin at 8.45am and finished two hours after Jaime/Cara, and we've been told they could possibly have only been 45min behind had they not been bumbling around. So let's say they wasted 1h15min, giving them an earliest possible check-in time of 10.30am (8.45am + 1h15min wasted + 30min for just the taxi ride into town). This translates to an earliest possible check-in of 8.30am for Jaime/Cara.

The last flight to Beijing leaves at 9.05pm, and assuming a 12h or longer Pit Stop, Jaime/Cara would not be able to make that flight. The Beijing I leg starts proper on the 20th at the earliest.

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b105/rawalsh/TAR14/ep10/rff-0004.jpg)

Here we have skylights leading out to the black sky... and the earliest time this could happen would be after sunset, on the 20th?
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: georgiapeach on April 26, 2009, 11:37:10 AM
I understand all that part Neobie, but thanks for spelling it out.

What I can't find is the link to Kisha/Jen racing in Beijing at 459AM, that's what I am missing, if you can please help me with that too? Why 459?? Is that based on when you think they arrive, a flight arrival, a look at a watch, what? I am drawing a blank here :lol:
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on April 26, 2009, 11:39:07 AM
D'oh, sorry! That's the time for sunset in Beijing on the 20th, and Jen/Kisha are obviously still racing after that time.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on April 26, 2009, 10:53:12 PM
We had pretty good shots of the clock in the swimming complex - here's the times I think they finished:

Jaime/Cara: 10.30pm
Margie/Luke: 10.32pm
Tammy/Victor: 10.50pm
LaKisha/Jennifer: 11.20pm

Which means we're almost definitely getting an Hours of Operation next episode, right?
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: DrRox on April 26, 2009, 11:58:52 PM
Well so much for worrying about the length of the pit stop and how long the next leg is.......all moot now. I think you are right......there should be a HOO rest period after the swimming pool, and all getting bunched up at the place that Phil sends them to, from the Drum Tower. It could also be one of those "take a time" deals.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: DrRox on April 28, 2009, 12:56:09 AM
Here are the Friday evening Tokyo-Honolulu flights, with JAL flights highlighted in red:

JO76: 1845-0635
JO8090: 1915-0645
UA880: 1925-0710
CI18: 1930-0720
NW96: 2010-0745
NW30: 2010-0745
NQ1052: 2055-0845
NW22: 2055-0845
JO74: 2100-0850
JO72: 2200-0950


Would Cara/Jaime and Margie/Luke actually fail to get on the first two flights? And if so, how would they?
If Tammy/Victor are still in the running, they would have outright beat them to begin the final leg...

We've seen some trouble with Tokyo-Honolulu flights in TAR6 before, haven't we? Flights with "no meals", Kendra's dying child...

These are the flights I found for Nov 21, 2008 for Toyko to Honolulu. They are the same as Neobie found. I have put the scheduled departure/arrival times in black and actual departure/arrival times in red. They differ from apskip's list of flights with the addition of JO 8090. apskip doesn't list this flight for some reason. I have no idea why Northwest Airlines would have two flights taking off at exactly the same time (NW 96 and NW 30) and landing at exactly the same time. I think it is probably the same flight, but who knows. On Nov 21, the PEK-NRT NW30 was cancelled. So maybe the passengers from that flight were put on NW96, if there was no equipment available. Phil/BVM/production crew and T/V probably flew on the following flight PEK-NRT. There are two earlier flights from PEK to NRT @ 08:25 and 08:35, but they arrive at a different termial than NH 956 and CA 925. It is important that Phil/BVM/produciton crew and T/V arrive at the same termianl as CA 925, in order for the blogger to observer them all in the same terminal and to ride the same shuttle bus to T-2.

NH  956   08:45(08:54) - 13:05(13:25)  arrive NRT @ Terminal T-1-S

The spoiler/blogger flew on fight CA 925 with J/C and M/L from Beijing to Toyko. With a 24 minute takeoff delay, I can just see Jamie's stress level rising. Guess the pilot put the pedal to the metal, because it landed 13 minutes early.

CA   925:   09:30(09:54)-13:50(13:37)  arrive NRT @ Terminal T-1-S

After this flight, the spoiler/blogger saw M/L and J/C go one way and the spoiler/blogger went to the Japan Airlines transfer desk, where she say Phil, BVM, production crew and T/V in line ahead of him/her. If these people were not flying on Japan Airlines, why would they be at the JAL transfer desk? After the spoiler/blogger finished at the transfer desk, she again saw all of the above people on the terminal shuttle bus. After arriving at termina T-2, she lost sight of all the aforementioned people and continued on to her gate.

One of the things we have had a lot of conjecture/speculation about is the proximity of Phil/BVM and production crew to T/V, if T/V were still racing. Here is some speculation. Phil/BVM and production could be flying on JO 76 and T/V could be on JO 8090. TPTB could ban teams from flying on JO 76 for the very reason to give them some separation.

Flights NRT-HNL on Nov 21, 2008
JO     76: 1845(18:48)-0635(06:31)  depart NRT @ Terminal 2
JO  8090: 1915    -      0645(06:19)  depart NRT @ Terminal 2

We will probably not know till the finale. But the finishing order this coming week might give us a clue. If T/V win the leg, then it is very possible, to me, that they could use their language skills at a travel agency in Beijing to book earlier flights than M/L or J/C will most probably do at the airport in Beijing. M/L and J/C could also have just gone the wrong direction in Narita and eventually found the JAL transfer desk and was never seen by the spoiler/blogger after she transferred terminals.

Other flights NRT-HNL on Nov 21, 2008
UA   880: 1925(19:16)-0710(07:08) depart NRT @ T-1
CI     18: 1930(19:32)-0720(07:30)  depart NRT @ T-2
NW   96: 20:10(19:59)-0745(07:33) depart NRT @ T-1-N
NW    30: 2010(19:59)-0745(07:33) depart NRT @  T-1-N
NQ 1052: 2055(20:57)-0845(08:41) depart NRT @ T-1-S
NW    22: 2055(20:52)-0845(08:38) depart NRT @ T-1-N
JO     74: 2100(21:04)-0850(08:41)  depart NRT @ T-2
JO     72: 2200(22:24)-0950(09:24)  depart NRT @ T-2

Narita International Airport Terminals:
Terminal One  = T-1
Terminal One-North Satelite = T-1-N
Terminal One-South Satelite = T-1-S
Terminal Two = T-2

What I do find interesting and happens every now and then, the 2nd taking off flight, is actually the first one to land. If this is in fact what happened, then T/V got to Hawaii before Phil/BVM and crew after all.

***If T/V were on JO 8090, then that gives them about 49 minutes on the ground in Honolulu to clear customs and catch the next flight to Maui, which as apskip has pointed out, are about every 30 minutes. Actually there are 14 flights from 07:00 till 12:00. They could actually be on the ground in Maui before the other teams have left Honolulu, If and ONLY IF they are still racing and are not decoys. If they are, in fact, decoys, then all of this is moot.

Also GeorgiaPeach added that TPTB might use first come, first served charters, just as they did in TAR11 to give Phil some lead time and a headstart on Maui.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on May 04, 2009, 07:29:34 AM
We had pretty good shots of the clock in the swimming complex - here's the times I think they finished:

Jaime/Cara: 10.30pm
Margie/Luke: 10.32pm
Tammy/Victor: 10.50pm
LaKisha/Jennifer: 11.20pm

Flag raising at Tiananmen Square, 20 Nov 2008: 7.05am.

Guesses on what happened? Did they go to Senegal?
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Zack. on May 04, 2009, 07:49:42 AM
We had pretty good shots of the clock in the swimming complex - here's the times I think they finished:

Jaime/Cara: 10.30pm
Margie/Luke: 10.32pm
Tammy/Victor: 10.50pm
LaKisha/Jennifer: 11.20pm

Flag raising at Tiananmen Square, 20 Nov 2008: 7.05am.

Guesses on what happened? Did they go to Senegal?

Bunching at the Beihai Street Mall? It looked really light outside when K/J got their gnome (as compared to pitch black when K/J checked in at the Drum Tower)
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on May 04, 2009, 08:00:05 AM
Neobie,
I too noticed that immediately last night, but I did it relative to sunrise in Beijing at 705 am on Nov. 20 (imagine that!). The possible explanations are that teams were held for about 8 hours at a hotel or less likely that there was an unshown hours of operation. That is less likely because teams would all get past such a HOO at approximately the same time, which does not look like what happened.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Chateau d If on May 08, 2009, 06:06:04 PM
I know what flight they're on!    :tup:

Teams arrive in Maui on flight Hawaiian Airlines 116 leaving Honolulu at 8:00 am and arriving at 8:37 am.

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b105/rawalsh/TAR14/EP12/rff-0072.jpg)

Gate 21

Actually there are three flights going to gate 21:  HA 116, HA 146, and HA 306

But, based on some long shadows I see for the Lu'au task, I'm betting on HA 116.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on May 08, 2009, 08:18:01 PM
Chateau, there is another way to approach the question of which flight the 3 teams were on. The runway, not gate, arrival times of the NRT HNL flights on NOv.21 were:

JO76 631am
JO8090 reported at 619am although this is difficult to believe since it left Tokyo 27 minutes later. It must be a much faster aircraft to turn 27 minutes behind to 12 minutes ahead in a 7 hour flight.

Add in about 8 minutes to get to the gate and the door open and you have:

Tammy/Victor ready for head for U.S. customs at 627am and the other 2 teams ready at 639am. Now, what is the connect time for incoming international to deaprting Hawaiian inter-island flight. It depends on who you ask, but American Airlines reportedly uses 75 minutes as the total for getting baggage, clearing customs, rechecking baggage, checking in for the interisland flight and boarding that flight. So that takes us to:

Tammy/Victor 742am
Margie/Luke and Jaime/Cara 754am

If things occur with normal efficiency, all teams should make HA116 HNL OGG 0800 0837. The next flight is HA176 HNL OGG 0820 0857 and the one after that HA146 0850 0927.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Chateau d If on May 09, 2009, 10:45:24 AM
We reached the same conclusion!  But had I added up times like that I would not have considered the American Airlines standard 75 minutes as a good estimate for our teams to take care of:  getting baggage, clearing customs, rechecking baggage, checking in for the interisland flight and boarding that flight.  Because they didn't have to get any baggage.  The savings from the absence of that task would take the 75 minutes down to 50 minutes.  And then you get TV in their seats at 7:17 am and the other teams at 7:29 am.  That permits inclusion of an earlier flight from HNL to OGG:  YV1010.

I think the appearance of "gate 21" in the shot helps to nail down the exact flight.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on May 09, 2009, 11:11:52 AM
We reached the same conclusion!  But had I added up times like that I would not have considered the American Airlines standard 75 minutes as a good estimate for our teams to take care of:  getting baggage, clearing customs, rechecking baggage, checking in for the interisland flight and boarding that flight.  Because they didn't have to get any baggage.  The savings from the absence of that task would take the 75 minutes down to 50 minutes.  And then you get TV in their seats at 7:17 am and the other teams at 7:29 am.  That permits inclusion of an earlier flight from HNL to OGG:  YV1010.

I think the appearance of "gate 21" in the shot helps to nail down the exact flight.

Chateau,
YOu are right about the teams, but you have forgotten the camera/sound crew that stays with them like glue. They need to check baggage (containing cameras, sound equipment, etc.) and retrieve it so it is irrelevant that the team do not. Forget any earlier flights than 8am HNL OGG.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Chateau d If on May 09, 2009, 11:20:23 AM
Opps!  I forgot about them.  Thanks.
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on May 11, 2009, 09:34:58 AM
Congratulations to Victor and Tammy, who have made it halfway around the world to win the Amazing Race!

Their journey took them on 27 taxis, 22 planes, 11 trains, 3 cars, 2 metros, 2 boats, a cable car, a rodelbahn, a snowplow, a rickshaw, a raft, an electric bicycle and a jet ski. Presenting... the winner's lap:

31 OCT FRI
Joint Forces Base, Los Alamitos, California, USA
Car to Los Angeles Intl Airport, California
LH457 to Frankfurt Intl Airport, Germany: 1534-1008

1 NOV SAT
LH3726 to Zurich Intl Airport, Switzerland: 1215-1300
IR2343 to Zurich Central Station: 1347-1359
IR2275 to Locarno, Ticino, Switzerland: 1409-1713
Walk to Chiesa di Sant' Antonio, Locarno
Walk to Parco Robinson, Locarno

2 NOV SUN
Walk to Chiesa di Sant' Antonio, Locarno
Taxi to Verzasca Dam, Ticino
Taxi to Locarno Station, Locarno, Ticino
S20 to Bellinzona, Ticino: 0903-0927
ICN662 to Luzern, Switzerland: 0936-1141
IR 2222 to Interlaken Ost, Bern, Switzerland: 1155-1355
Taxi to Kleine Ruben Weise, Interlaken
Taxi to Hotel Station, Stechelberg, Bern
Walk to Alpenhof, Stechelberg
Pit Stop at Alpenhof, Stechelberg, Bern, Switzerland

3 NOV MON
Taxi to Zurich Intl Airport, Switzerland
LH5063 to Munich Intl Airport, Bavaria, Germany: 0710-0815
Car to Ruhpolding, Bavaria
Cable car to Rauschberg, Ruhpolding
Cable car and walk to Ruhpolding
Car to Schonau am Konigsee, Bavaria
Car to Schloss Hellbrunn, Salzburg, Austria
Pit Stop at Schloss Hellbrunn, Salzburg, Austria

4 NOV TUE
Car to Salzburg Train Station
Train to Munich Train Station, Bavaria, Germany
Metro to Munich Intl Airport
CL3480 to Munich Intl Airport: 1525-1825
LH3424 to Bucharest Intl Airport, Romania: 2130-0025
Taxi to Lia Manoliu Sports Complex, Bucharest
Taxi to Gara de Nord, Bucharest

5 NOV WED
Train to Brasov Train Station, Romania: 0550-0852
Taxi to Black Church, Brasov
Taxi to Platoul Inima Reginei
Taxi to Vila Panoramic, Bran, Romania
Pit Stop at Vila Panoramic, Bran, Romania

6 NOV THR
Extended Pit Stop at Vila Panoramic, Bran, Romania

7 NOV FRI
LH3425 to Munich Intl Airport, Germany: 0700-0810
SU122 to Sheremetyevo Intl Airport, Moscow, Russia: 1310-1825
SU781 to Krasnoyarsk Intl Airport, Russia: 0045-0910

8 NOV SAT
Taxi to Krasnoyarsk Hydroelectric Dam
Taxi to Church of St Innokenty, Krasnoyarsk
Taxi to Brobovy Log Park, Krasnoyarsk
Rodelbahn at Brobovy Log Park
Taxi to Theater of Musical Comedy, Krasnoyarsk
Pit Stop at Theater of Musical Comedy, Krasnoyarsk

9 NOV SUN
Train 55 Yenisei to Novosibirsk Train Station: 2226-0947
Taxi to ATS Technical Inspection Point, Novosibirsk

10 NOV MON
Car to Komsomolskaya St, Novosibirsk
Car to Cathedral of the Ascension, Novosibirsk
Car to Spartak Stadium, Novosibirsk
Snowplow at Spartak Stadium
Car to Novosibirsk Regional Library
Taxi and walk to Novosibirsk Opera & Ballet Theatre
Pit Stop at Novosibirsk Opera & Ballet Theatre

11 NOV TUE
Extended Pit Stop at Novosibirsk Opera & Ballet Theatre, Russia

12 NOV WED
Taxi to Novosibirsk Intl Airport
S7178 to Domodedovo Intl Airport, Moscow: 1000-1120
Metro to Sheremetyevo Intl Airport
SU533 to Delhi Intl Airport, India: 1620-0050

13 NOV THR
9W709 to Jaipur, Rajasthan, India: 0545-0630
Taxi to Dhula, Rajasthan
Taxi to Amber Fort, Jaipur, Rajasthan
Taxi to Johari Bazaar, Jaipur
Taxi to Jaigarh Fort, Jaipur
Pit Stop at Jaigarh Fort, Jaipur

14 NOV FRI
Taxi to Riya Travel & Tours, Jaipur
Taxi to Jaipur Intl Airport
IC895 to Delhi Intl Airport, India: 1815-1855

15 NOV SAT
IC853 to Bangkok Intl Airport, Thailand: 0005-0530 OR
TG316 to Bangkok Intl Airport, Thailand: 0005-0535
TG203 to Phuket Intl Airport, Thailand: 0730-0850
Taxi to Patong Beach, Phuket
Taxi to Phuket Zoo
Taxi to Nguan Choon Tong Herbs Shop, Phuket
Taxi to Wat Mongkol Nimit, Phuket
Rickshaw to Rama IX Park, Phuket
Taxi to Wat Thep Nimit, Phuket
Pit Stop at Wat Thep Nimit, Phuket

16 NOV SUN
Taxi to Phuket Intl Airport
TG226 to Bangkok Intl Airport, Thailand: 0725-0850
Taxi to Chareonyont 007 Boat Yard, Bangkok
Boat to Peninsula Pier, Bangkok
Taxi to Wat Samphantawong, Bangkok
Party taxi to Wat Samphantawong
Taxi to Phayathai Palace, Bangkok
Pit Stop at Phayathai Palace, Bangkok

17 NOV MON
KQ234 to Guangzhou, China: 1315-1715
CZ3303 to Guilin, China: 2030-2130
Taxi to Folded Brocade Mountains, Guilin

18 NOV TUE
Taxi to Yingying Hair Salon, Qingxiu Rd, Guilin
Taxi to #24 Bridge, Guilin
Boat at #24 Bridge
Raft at #24 Bridge
Taxi to Ancient South Gate, Guilin
Walk to Soulmate Pier, Guilin
Pit Stop at Soulmate Pier, Guilin

19 NOV WED
Taxi to Liangjiang Intl Airport, Guilin
CZ3287 to Capital Intl Airport, Beijing, China: 1710-1950
Taxi to Liangzi Massage Parlour, Beijing
Taxi to Guangcai Sports Complex, Beijing
Taxi to Drum Tower, Beijing

20 NOV THR
Taxi to Beihai E Gate, Beijing
Taxi to NW Corner of Forbidden City, Beijing
Electric bicycle to Dongdan Station, Beijing
Taxi to Huguang Guild Hall, Beijing
Taxi to Dongzhimen Night Market, Beijing
Taxi to National Stadium, Beijing
Pit Stop at National Stadium, Beijing
Taxi to Capital Intl Airport, Beijing

21 NOV FRI
NH956 to Narita Intl Airport, Tokyo: 0845-1305
JO76 to Honolulu Intl Airport, Hawaii, USA: 1845-0635

21 NOV FRI
HA116 to Kahului Airport, Maui, Hawaii: 0800-0837
Taxi to Beach Access 118, Maui
Taxi to McGregor Point, Maui
Jet ski at McGregor Point
Taxi to Hana Highway Surfboard Fence, Maui
Taxi to King Kamehameha Golf Club, Maui
Finish Line at King Kamehameha Golf Club, Maui, Hawaii, USA


:hugs: Big cheers to all participating in this thread; looking forward to seeing y'all again when next season rolls around!
Title: Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on May 15, 2009, 02:24:10 PM
AR14 Timeline(could be the final one):
 
Oct. 31 leg 1 depart U.S. for Locarno, Switzerland via Frankfurt and Zurich or via Milan:

LAX to Milan-Malpensa(MXP) as follows: AF75 LAX CDG 1600 0930+1, connecting with AF4806 CDG MXP 1125+1 1305+1     
Here are the schedules in the same time frame:
take taxi to Chiasso, the first train station in Switzerland. Schedules to Locarno would be:
depart Chiasso 1500 arrive Locarno 1613
depart Chiasso 1533 arrive Locarno 1657
depart Chiasso 1603 arrive Locarno 1727 
 
From LAX to Zurich via Frankfurt we have the interesting combination:
LH457  LAX FRA  1535 1025+1 connecting with LH3726   FRA ZRH  1200 1255

There are 10 nonstop flights on Saturday between Frankfurt and Zurich, so if any are delayed there are alternatives.

The train schedule from Zurich to Bellinzona to Locarno indicates that 3 1/4 hours is required. Here it is:
de.Zurich 1402 arrive Arth-Goldau 1446 dep. 1448 arr. Bellinzona 1623 dep. 1630 arrive Locarno 1657

Nov. 1 arrive mid-morning in Europe and reach Locarn late afternoon afternoon; then sign up for 0715, 0730 or 0745am departures; then sleep overnight;
Nov. 2 Verzasca Dam bungee jump then Locarno to Domodossola to Spiez to Interlaken by train;
schedule for a leading team:
dep. Locarno 0903 arr. Bellinzona 0927
dep. Bellnizona 0936 arr. Lucerne 1141 via the St. Gotthard Tunnel
dep. Lucerne 1155 arr. Interlaken Ost 1355
this is nearly a 5 hour trip;

schedule for good train (taken by Brad/Victoria and lagging teams get there in time to take it):
dep. Locarno 1042 arr. Domodossola 1230
dep. Domodossola 1248 arr. Spiez 1353
dep. Spiez 1403 arr. Interlaken West 1423
total trip is 4 hours train;
other teams go earlier and get there slightly earlier(except for Christie/Jodi who get a circuitous route 1 1/4 hours hours earlier but arrive later or teams that are behind Brad/Victoria);

Interlaken tasks;
Interlaken area (Stechelberg) pit stop

Nov. 3 leg 2 Interlaken by tasi directl to Zurich airport, then plane to Salzburg:
 
From Interlaken to Munich, the early morning Monday(as in Nov.3) flights are:
LX1100 ZRH MUC 0710 0815
LX3616 ZRH MUC 0845 0945

then self-drive less than an hour to Ruhpolding
Tasks in Raushberg near Ruhpolding parasailing, 25 mile drive to Schnoau am Kongisee for tasks, then
Evening Extedned 18 hour Pit stop in Salzburg at Schloss Hellbrunn

Nov. 4  begin leg 3;
Salzburg to Bucharest starts with driving to Alzburg rail station, getting on a train to Munich and switching there to an airport train. The schedules from Salzburg  all the way to MUchich Flughafen (on average once per hour) are:

1103 1317
1152 1417
1303 1526
1314 1537
1352 1557
1441 1657
1552 1757
1617 1827
Flight choices depend on arrival at Munich Airport. Tammy/Victor initially get LH3480 1525 1825 but then it comes back with a mechanical problem.
RO312 1645 1945 is taken by 3 teams.
LH3424 2130 0025+1 is taken by everyone else except Brad/Victoria
Brad/Victoria attempt to get 15 minutes ahead of the alst group by going MUC AMS and AMS OTP but delays on the flight into Amsterdam doom them to not departing until the KLM nonstop the next morning and not arriving into Bucharest until after 1pm.

Nov. 5 arrival in Bucharest after midnight; transfer to train to get to Brasov
morning train departures: Bucharest Nord 2358 arr. Brasov 0246  or  dep. 0630 0922  or  dep. 0730 1019  or  dep. 0616 1051(note: nobody would want this) or  0830 1124  or  0942 1254  or  1130 1404

tasks in Brasov and nearby Transylvania
extended pit stop in Transylvania (includes Brasov)

Nov. 7 leg 4  leave Transylvania for Krasnojarsk, Siberia
return to Bucharest, then choice of:

TK1444  OTP IST RO261 0825 0955 connecting in Istanbul to SU208 SVO 1255 1705 

OTP SOFIA RO293 0820 0920, connecting to SOF SVO SU162 1240 1630

OTP FRA LH3417 0610 0750 or RO321 0910 1050, either connecting to SU106 FRA SVO 1405 1910 

OTP MUC LH3425 0700 0810, connecting to SU122 MUC SVO 1310 1825 

OTP IST RO261 0825 0955. connecting to TK1415 IST SVO 1335 1740,
connecting at Moscow-Sheremetyevo to SU779 SVO KJA 2055 0540+1 OR
SU781 0045+1 0910+1

Nov. 8 do tasks
pit stop

Nov. 9
leg 5 begins allowing teams to board TransSiberian Express in late afternoon
Here is the train selected by WRP from Krasnojarsk to Novosibirsk on a weekday:

Dep.  Arr.No Duration
 
18:26   06:47  12:21     
   

I have no idea why teams had to wait for the 18:26 (Moscow time like the schedule) train, which would arrive Nov. 10 around 6:47am Moscow time (947am Novosibirsk time).

Nov. 10 TransSiberian Express arrival in Novosibirsk
tasks in Novosibirsk, Siberia
Extended 24 Hour pit stop

Nov. 12 leg 6 begins
flights Novosibirsk to Jaipur:

SU810 OVB SVO 0700 0815
KC872 SVO ALA 0920 1645
KC907 ALA Delhi DEL 1805 2115;

overnight at Delhi Airport

Nov. 13
There are 5 nonstop flights from Delhi to Jaipur on Wednesdays or Thursdays (Nov. 12 or 13). They are:

9W709 0545 0630
AI9896/IC896 0605 0645
IC7809 0700 0755
IT611 0930 1010
IT 2302 1930 2030

tasks in Jaipur area
pit stop

Nov. 14 leg 7 Fly Jaipur to Phuket
From Jaipur to Phuket late on Fridays:

9W372 JAI BOM  2040 2220 connecting AI6318  BOM BKK  2320 0520+1 connecting  TG201  BKK HKT  0720+1 0840+1

Nov. 15 see above
Phuket area tasks
pit stop

Nov. 16 leg 8 fly from Phuket to Bangkok
TG226 0725 0850
tasks in Bangkok area
Extended pit stop

Nov. 18 leg 9 fly from Bangkok to Guilin:
Margie/Luke-  CZ362 BKK CAN 1120 1505 connecting to CZ3303 CAN KWL 2035 2130, with late departure and arrival
Jaime/Cara and Tammy/Victor - KQ924 BKK CAN 1315 1710  connecting to the same CZ3303
Kisha/Jen -   TG715 BKK CAN 1525  1915 connecting to Shenzhen 8627 CAN KWL 2110 2210
Mark/Michael -  CZ364 BKK CAN 1855 2230  missing the last flight to Guilin taking CZ3232 0940+1 1040+1

sleep first night on Folding Brocade Mountain in sleeping bags;
tasks in Guilin;
pit stop

Nov. 19 leg 10 Guilin to Beijing flight choices:
CZ3287 1710 1950

then tasks in Beijing and start TBC, leg 11
probable overnight accommodation almost immediately

Nov. 20
leg 11 tasks
pitstop, starting between 935am and 204pm

Nov. 21
leg 12 return from Beijing to U.S. for Finish Line in Hawaii via Tokyo
PEK to NRT:
teams on CA925 0925 1355

NRT to HNL
teams on JO76 1845 0645+1 but arriving at 639am
This is same day due to crossing the International Date Line.

Finish Line on Maui, so teams will take a 36 or 37 minute flight Honolulu to Kahului HA176 0800+1 0837+1 . 
tasks
Finish Line

Note: this is a 22 day race.