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Archive => RFF Archived Boards => The Amazing Race 13 Spoilers/Speculation => Topic started by: apskip on April 24, 2008, 11:17:35 AM

Title: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on April 24, 2008, 11:17:35 AM
Here we go again. I have decided that a potential way of locating where AR13 sent from LAX is to compare the international flight routes from  LAX from 1pm to minight for both American Airlines and United Airlines. This is based on reports that teams were in both of those those terminals, although that certainly does not guarantee that my method of analysis will lead anywhere useful. Let's see.

So, I start with the American Airlines international(excluding Canada) schedules for nonstop and direct flights from LAX. There are a myriad of connecting flights to everywhere, so in order to put some boundary on this analysis I have limited it as stated. That does prove to be somewhat limiting, since American flies  lots of routes to Europe and to Latin America from O'Hare, DFW and Miami, but very few from LAX. Here is where it does go:

Auckland
Beijing
Brisbane
Guadalajara(2)
Hong Kong
Lima
London Heathrow(2)
Melbourne(2)
Mexico(2)
Monterrey, Mexico (2)
Santiago, Chile
Shanghai
Sydney(2)
Taipei
Tokyo - Narita

OK, now it's time to overlay the United Airlines schedule for only those cities for 1pm to midnight departures onto the above. Here is what gets eliminated:

Guadalajara
Lima
Santiago
Shanghai

Hong Kong is also eliminated for having flight arrivals 11 hours apart, which is too far for fairness to the teams.

Here are the AA and UA schedules in thet designated time frame for the remaining cities(Note that most AA flight are 4 digit code-shares that are not operated by AA. Also note that I have allowed some UA connections to match up with AA nonstop/direct destinations rather than just eliminating them.):

Auckland - AA7337 2045 0505+2, UA9549 2145 0530+2, UA9545 2230 0615+2

Beijing - AA5790 1330 2320+1, UA4456 0140 0520+1 (Note: this departure is 12 hours later, arrival is only 6 hours later and little is open in the interim, so this could work even though departure is after the allowed window)

Briisbane - AA7298 2320 0605+2, UA839/9507 SYD connection 2226 0955+2, UA9545/9595 AKL connection 2230 1055+2

London Heathrow - AA136 1800 1225+1, AA134 2030 1450+1, UA934 1311 0740+1

Melbourne - AA7356 2340 0755+2, AA7337 2045 0815+2, UA9595/9543 AKL connection 2230 0950+2

Mexico City - AA8301 1320 1855, AA8303 1745 2320, UA817 1335 1916

Monterrey - AA8311 1610 1740, UA5436 516 1638, UA5437 1815 1937

Sydney - AA7364 2030 0605+2, AA7366 2350 0725+2, UA839 2226 0610+2

Taipei - AA7967 1635 2155+1, UA891/UA9683 NRT connection 1259 2050+1

Tokyo Narita - AA5829 1320 1640+1, UA 9685 1255 1625+1, UA891 1259 1631+1


So, where does that leave us. My hunch is that teams landed in Melbourne, but it could also be Sydney or Auckland, all of which were early in the morning of April 24. It is now the morning of April 25 in New Zealand and Australia, so it could be difficult to catch up with them.

Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Kogs on April 24, 2008, 11:37:32 AM
see'ing how they wont have them sit around an airport till night time on the day of the race, my guess apskip is either they flew to south america via other airports or they went to japan. the united flight from lax on tuesday left around the same time as the jal flight to tokyo.  the hong kong flight from lax to hkg on united was cancelled on tuesday.

just some food for thought.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: georgiapeach on April 24, 2008, 12:06:10 PM
Good work guys!
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Kogs on April 24, 2008, 12:14:15 PM
Good work guys!

using flightaware's tuesday lax departures its easy to put 2 and 2 together on how to figure out where they went. but since we have info of no american airlines ticket buying its more likely that they prob went to tokyo than say argentina through other cities
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: gingerman28 on April 24, 2008, 01:34:48 PM
Good work guys!

using flightaware's tuesday lax departures its easy to put 2 and 2 together on how to figure out where they went. but since we have info of no american airlines ticket buying its more likely that they prob went to tokyo than say argentina through other cities

Let's not get too enamored with a East to West itinerary.  Remember TAR12 went from LAX to Ireland.

And when starting in Chicago teams went to Europe via Minneapolis, Boston and Baltimore

And will TPTB bypass South America two races in a row???
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Kogs on April 24, 2008, 01:39:22 PM
Good work guys!

using flightaware's tuesday lax departures its easy to put 2 and 2 together on how to figure out where they went. but since we have info of no american airlines ticket buying its more likely that they prob went to tokyo than say argentina through other cities

Let's not get too enamored with a East to West itinerary.  Remember TAR12 went from LAX to Ireland.

And when starting in Chicago teams went to Europe via Minneapolis, Boston and Baltimore

And will TPTB bypass South America two races in a row???

i checked into that to g-man only place that would be afficiant for them to go from lax is to EZE in argentina via chicago,dullas, or miami.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: gingerman28 on April 24, 2008, 01:40:06 PM
Good work guys!

using flightaware's tuesday lax departures its easy to put 2 and 2 together on how to figure out where they went. but since we have info of no american airlines ticket buying its more likely that they prob went to tokyo than say argentina through other cities

Let's not get too enamored with a East to West itinerary.  Remember TAR12 went from LAX to Ireland.

And when starting in Chicago -TAR 6 - teams went to Iceland via Minneapolis, Boston and Baltimore

And will TPTB bypass South America two races in a row???

Could be the teams took United flights or American flights connecting to somewhere in South America. (Via Chicago, Dallas/Fort Worth, Miami0
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Kogs on April 24, 2008, 01:45:54 PM
Good work guys!

using flightaware's tuesday lax departures its easy to put 2 and 2 together on how to figure out where they went. but since we have info of no american airlines ticket buying its more likely that they prob went to tokyo than say argentina through other cities

Let's not get too enamored with a East to West itinerary.  Remember TAR12 went from LAX to Ireland.

And when starting in Chicago -TAR 6 - teams went to Iceland via Minneapolis, Boston and Baltimore

And will TPTB bypass South America two races in a row???

Could be the teams took United flights or American flights connecting to somewhere in South America. (Via Chicago, Dallas/Fort Worth, Miami0


g-man the united fligth would have been to dullas not chicago, while the american flights where either chicago or miami if we are going that route if it is south america
Title: Re: The Amazing Race 13 *Real Spoilers Only!*
Post by: gingerman28 on April 24, 2008, 08:53:14 PM
Thanks to Peach's glorious discovery I decided to go down to LAX and check it out.  Again.  I had spent last Sunday afternoon there (4/20/08) and that was a bust.

But today's trip yields some new information.  I found several staffers who had seen filming yesterday.  One team was at the northmost main entry of Tom Bradley terminal having an interview.  Not rushed.

One team was at the American Airlines terminal being interviewed off in a quiet corner.

One United Employee in the domestic terminal (#6) had heard of TAR filming (she actually said Amazing Race) that happened in the their international terminal (#7). 

Two employees at the United International terminal had seen 3 teams arrive and purchase tickets at the far east end of the counters.  I asked if they had seen colored flags around any where:  "Any little flags stuck on the poles over there?  Like red and..."  And the guy said "Oh yes, Red and Gold"  That's close enough for me!  The gal said there was one team that was 'hippie' like with long white hair (she demonstrated with her hands at mid chest level).  They were an older couple, as in, male and female.  She estimated their ages to be 40's or 50's.  She also mentioned the two girls and another team that was just a regular young couple in their 20's.

No employees at either AA (terminal 4) or Delta (terminal 5) had seen any ticket buying by filmed pairs going at their counters.

So teams are seen buying tickets at United's Interntional counter.  So where does United fly to from LAX?  Or are they connecting through some other US airport and then continuing overseas.  This could mean anything: flight to the West (Asia or Australia or Oceania); flight to the South (Surinam, Guatemala, Argentine) or East (Europe).  Only direction eliminated is North since it is not likely that they would be flying to Canada to start the race.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: georgiapeach on April 24, 2008, 09:40:04 PM
I have already ruled out TAR coming thru Dallas/Dulles/Chicago and can certainly relook at Miami...

Even if this a connecting/non-filming  airport I think they would still need official approval...and there wasn't any given.

G-man--I think apskip and kogs have the possible international  flights pretty well laid out here...

Have one more thing to try re their destinations and it is being worked on...
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on April 24, 2008, 11:50:36 PM
Per the sighting Tuesday night at Chicago, I suppose they're headed East? (As opposed to the Far East?)

I see plenty, plenty of flights from LAX to ORD (duh). But just for reference's sake, under American and United:

AA 1546: 1530 to 2130
AA 1624: 1415 to 2015
AA 2074: 1300 to 1905
AA 1890: 1525 to 2325 (probably too late)

UA 114: 1204 to 1807
UA 116: 1255 to 1855
UA 843: 1405 to 2005
UA 122: 1600 to 2152
UA 124: 1804 to 2359 (probably too late)

Does anyone know the flight time from LA to Chicago? From these times it looks like 6 hours, but from both the AA and UA sites they list times ranging around 4 hours. Computer error or something else?

Can't believe it's happening again! :jumpy:

(Edited because 1405 to 2005 is 6 hours, not 8. Sorry for the wonky maths.)
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Kogs on April 25, 2008, 12:07:14 AM
Per the sighting Tuesday night at Chicago, I suppose they're headed East? (As opposed to the Far East?)

I see plenty, plenty of flights from LAX to ORD (duh). But just for reference's sake, under American and United:

AA 1546: 1530 to 2130
AA 1624: 1415 to 2015
AA 2074: 1300 to 1905
AA 1890: 1525 to 2325 (probably too late)

UA 114: 1204 to 1807
UA 116: 1255 to 1855
UA 843: 1405 to 2005
UA 122: 1600 to 2152
UA 124: 1804 to 2359 (probably too late)

Does anyone know the flight time from LA to Chicago? From these times it looks like 8 hours, but from both the AA and UA sites they list times ranging around 4 hours. Computer error or something else?

Can't believe it's happening again! :jumpy:

neobie i believe we are looking at american to chicago on flight 2074
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: graytex on April 25, 2008, 08:24:30 AM
Well, at the urging of a friend, here's my first post.

American flight 961 left Chicago at 8:52pm bound for Buenos Aires.  It left out of Terminal 3, gate K11, which is primarily a domestic terminal, but does have international flights.  The photo of the racer was taken at 7:08pm Chicago time by someone flying in from California, so that all seems to fit together.  I also can't find any non-stop flights from LAX to Buenos Aires, so everyone would have to connect through another city.

If they flew United, it looks like those flights are routed through Dulles.

Oh, and this:  Hi Peach!   :waves:
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Kogs on April 25, 2008, 08:26:16 AM
Well, at the urging of a friend, here's my first post.

American flight 961 left Chicago at 8:52pm bound for Buenos Aires.  It left out of Terminal 3, gate K11, which is primarily a domestic terminal, but does have international flights.  The photo of the racer was taken at 7:08pm Chicago time by someone flying in from California, so that all seems to fit together.  I also can't find any non-stop flights from LAX to Buenos Aires, so everyone would have to connect through another city.

If they flew United, it looks like those flights are routed through Dulles.

Oh, and this:  Hi Peach!   :waves:

Welcome grattex  :waves:

check out over here

http://forum.realityfanforum.com/index.php/topic,15356.0.html
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: graytex on April 25, 2008, 08:33:49 AM
Thanks Kogs.

One other thing I found:  The American flight from Chicago just began in January, and there are very few cities with service to Buenos Aires, if that is the first stop.

Quote
ambassador
Ambassador's Speech
REMARKS BY AMBASSADOR WAYNE AT AMERICAN AIRLINES COCKTAIL RECEPTION
January 22, 2008

I want to welcome all of you this evening.  It is a pleasure to have the opportunity to host this event celebrating American Airlines’ new direct flight from Chicago to Buenos Aires.
 
Particularly, I would like to welcome the members of our delegation from Chicago who have actually arrived via American Flight #961. Hopefully you had a smooth flight; if not there might be someone in this room you can talk to!

In July of last year, the United States and Argentina signed a Bilateral Agreement on Civil Aviation, which will allow the number of flights between our two countries to double.

I commend American Airlines for immediately seizing this opportunity as they are the first, in what I hope to be several, new flights between the U.S. and Argentina in the near future.

Perhaps most importantly, the increase in flights will facilitate greater travel between our two countries, which will help promote cultural exchange and foster business opportunities.

It is no coincidence that U.S. airline companies have had direct flights originating in Atlanta, Dallas, Houston, Miami, New York City, Washington D.C, and Dallas as these cities offer Argentines excellent business and tourism destinations and offer easy connections to other U.S. cities. 

Now, I am hopeful that our Argentine friends will have a greater opportunity to explore the wonderful city of Chicago.

 
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on April 25, 2008, 08:38:34 AM
Per the sighting Tuesday night at Chicago, I suppose they're headed East? (As opposed to the Far East?)

Does anyone know the flight time from LA to Chicago? From these times it looks like 6 hours, but from both the AA and UA sites they list times ranging around 4 hours. Computer error or something else?

Nope, Neobie, geography error. There is a two hour time zone difference between LAX and ORD. LAX is PDT and ORD iS CDT, which are 2 hours apart.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on April 25, 2008, 08:53:35 AM
For those of you wanting to know how teams went on United to Buenos Aires, there is only one way they could have done it:

LAX IAD(Washington Dulles) UA862 1254 2050, then a very tight connection to
IAD EZE                                 UA847 2145 0920+1 

The comparable AA flights already stated by others have a slightly more comfortable connection in O'Hare:

LAX ORD  AA2074 1300 1905
ORD EZE AA961 2010 0915+1 (Note: if this left at 852pm it was 42 minutes late and this could make it arrive after the United flight into Buenos Aires)

It should be noted that there was another comparable AA flight conncection through Miami in the right time frame, so it is likely that a third group of AR13 teams could have gone that way and arrived first:

LAX MIA AA252 1355 2142 (Note the ample connect time)
MIA EZE AA943 2320 0855

This would demonstrate the common Amazing Race trick of having teams compete hard to get on the first plane that leaves, which can turn out to be the last that arrives after a longer flight path or connection.

And there is also a fourth flight connection on AA through DFW:

LAX DFW AA2448  1325 1829 (Note: this is a modearte connection compared to the others)
DFW EZE AA997    1935 0805

The best connection of all is a 1320 AA nonstop from LAX to Lima, Peru, connecting to an LAN flight but the arrival into EZE is quite a bit earlier at 0740 and I doubt that American reservations agents would have booked this with 3 AA alternatives plus one UA available.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Kogs on April 25, 2008, 08:59:46 AM
For those of you wanting to know how teams went on United to Buenos Aires, there is only one way they could have done it:

LAX IAD(Washington Dulles) UA862 1254 2050, then a very tight connection to
IAD EZE                                 UA847 2145 0920+1 

The comparable AA flights already stated by others have a slightly more comfortable connection in O'Hare:

LAX ORD  AA2074 1300 1905
ORD EZE AA961 2010 0915+1 (Note: if this left at 852pm it was 42 minutes late and this could make it arrive after the United flight into Buenos Aires)

both flights from chicago and dulles where delayed to eze on tuesday night.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on April 25, 2008, 09:14:13 AM
Oops, apskip! That was embarassing! :-[

Are there any other options from Chicago on Tuesday night we could be looking at? I don't know how to work the websites...
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Kogs on April 25, 2008, 09:17:40 AM
Oops, apskip! That was embarassing! :-[

Are there any other options from Chicago on Tuesday night we could be looking at? I don't know how to work the websites...

neobie i went through every possibility. thats how i matched chicago and dulles to eze.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: graytex on April 25, 2008, 09:50:47 AM
So the American flight was supposed to arrive 5 minutes before United, but was 42 minutes late leaving.

The United flight left 33 minutes late (left at 10:18pm EDT).  If the scheduled flight time was exactly right (unlikely) the United flight would have ended up arriving 4 minutes earlier.  Really close!  That could add some excitement to the race.

So we've talked about 2 flights.  Aren't there usually 3 flights out of the starting gate?
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Kogs on April 25, 2008, 09:55:35 AM
So the American flight was supposed to arrive 5 minutes before United, but was 42 minutes late leaving.

The United flight left 33 minutes late (left at 10:18pm EDT).  If the scheduled flight time was exactly right (unlikely) the United flight would have ended up arriving 4 minutes earlier.  Really close!  That could add some excitement to the race.

So we've talked about 2 flights.  Aren't there usually 3 flights out of the starting gate?

only 4 seasons used 3 flights the latest was tar9
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: georgiapeach on April 25, 2008, 10:21:49 AM
A BIG  :welcome3: to graytex!!   Finally!  :yess:

Just as an intro to the rest of the team, graytex is a friend who has already helped us with TAR detecting behind the scenes several times before--particularly in India last season. 

I know we will be glad of his help during the upcoming season!

 :jumpy: :jumpy: Glad you are finally here!  :jumpy: :jumpy:
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on April 25, 2008, 11:15:37 AM
So the American flight was supposed to arrive 5 minutes before United, but was 42 minutes late leaving.

The United flight left 33 minutes late (left at 10:18pm EDT).  If the scheduled flight time was exactly right (unlikely) the United flight would have ended up arriving 4 minutes earlier.  Really close!  That could add some excitement to the race.

So we've talked about 2 flights.  Aren't there usually 3 flights out of the starting gate?

graytex, you look phophetic. Take a look back at my note from earlier this morning, which I just finished altering to talk about AA flight possibilities connecting in Miami and DFW and Lima.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on April 25, 2008, 03:28:13 PM
I have constructed a table of major South American cities from which nonstop flights to major European cities originate. It has Sao Paulo(the largest origination point), Buenos Aires, and Rio de Janeiro. The destinations are Madrid, Lisbon, London, Paris and Frankfurt. If a city pair does not have a nonstop flight, then it is listed as NONE below:

GRU MAD IB6824 1610 0705+1  JJ8064 2030 1125+1  RG8714 2235 1355+1

GRU LIS  TP188 1705 0645+1  TP194  2330 1325+1

GRU LHR BA246 1620 0730+1  JJ8084 2345 1535+1

GRU CDG AF455 1630 0835+1  AF459 1920 1150+1  RG8730 2300 1520+1

GRU FRA LH507 1820 1035+1  JJ8070 2140 1430+1

EZE MAD LH510 1200 0510+1   

EZE LIS  none

EZE LHR none

EZE CDG AF415 1705 1100+1

EZE FRA LH511 2055 1500+1

GIG MAD IB6026 1910 0950+1  UX046 2205 1300+1

GIG LIS TP178  1715 0645+1

GIG LHR  none

GIG CDG AF443 1620 0753+1  JJ8051 2340 1550+1

GIG FRA  none

Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on April 25, 2008, 03:31:42 PM
Here is something I find really exciting. There are 2 nonstop Transpacific flights from South America to Auckland, New Zealand. The first is from Santiago, LA841 SCL AKL 2245 0355+2. the second, surprisingly, is from Buenos Aires, AR1182 EZE AKL 2359 0440+2.

This means that AR13 teams could come out of South America going east to west even though my evaluation of the probabilities indicates they will go to Europe and not to South Africa.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Chateau d If on April 25, 2008, 06:38:28 PM
To get to their first destination (Sao Paulo) , teams leaving LAX mid-day Tuesday on American Airlines would have used one of these flights:

1) via Dallas
LAX to DFW on AA 2300, takeoff 10:45 am, arrives 3:45 pm.
or
LAX to DFW on AA 2157, takeoff 11:55 am, arrives 4:55 pm.
or
LAX to DFW on AA 2446, takeoff 12:50 pm, arrives 5:40 pm.
or
LAX to DFW on AA 2448,   takeoff 1:25 pm, arrives 6:29 pm.
and
DFW to GRU on AA 963,  takeoff   7:45 pm, arrives 7:50 am Wednesday.

2) via New York
LAX to JFK on AA 40, takeoff 10:45 am, arrives 7:15 pm.
or
LAX to JFK on AA 4, takeoff 12:00 noon, arrives 8:30 pm.
and
JFK to GRU on AA 951, takeoff 9:30 pm, arrives 8:00 am Wednesday.

3) via Lima
LAX to LIM on AA 7734, takeoff 1:20 pm, arrives 11:55 pm.
or
LAX to LIM on AA 5606, takeoff 1:50 pm, arrives 12:25 am Wednesday.
and
LIM to GRU on LAN 765, takeoff 1:35 am, arrives 8:25 am Wednesday.

4) via Miami
LAX to MIA on AA 1520, takeoff 12:00 noon, arrives 7:50 pm.
or
LAX to MIA on AA 252, takeoff 1:55 pm, arrives 9:42 pm.
and
MIA to GRU on AA 995, takeoff 11:30 pm, arrives 8:30 am Wednesday.

And teams leaving LAX mid-day Tuesday on United Airlines would have used one of these flights:

1) via Chicago
LAX to ORD on UA 114, takeoff 12:04 pm, arrives 6:07 pm.
or
LAX to ORD on UA 843, takeoff 2:05 pm, arrives 8:05 pm.
and
ORD to GRU on UA 843, takeoff 9:32 pm, arrives 10:05 am.

2) via Washington DC
LAX to IAD on UA 862, takeoff 12:54 pm, arrives 8:50 pm.
and
IAD to GRU on UA 861, takeoff 9:43 pm, arrives 8:20 am Wednesday.

The sighting of a racer in Chicago rules out the Washington DC option.

So it looks like the AA flight combination is the one that the teams should try to secure.  The United flight through Chicago arrives about an hour and a half to two hours later than the American route depending which one it turns out to be.

Fixed the pm thing.  Thanks Apskip
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on April 25, 2008, 07:05:52 PM
Chateau, I am certain that you have a typo for your first UA arrival time in GRU. It should be 1005am, not pm.

Congratulations on fabulous detective work! You are one of the few Senior Detectives in the Los Angeles area and you have done us proud.

I can further state that my research on the American and United offical timetable websites indicates that all of the 6 basic itineraries you have developed are valid except for the one through JFK. There is ample connect time for AA there and the departure and arrival times are reasonable for AR13's purposes, but AA has not listed that connection along with their other 3 as one that they want people to book. You can certainly force it together with the individual flights, but AA reservations agents at the Amazing Race ticketing/check-in area are going to be controlling the action and they typically have access to only some of the possible routes. I am pretty sure that the JFK routing will not have been among them.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Kiwi Jay on April 25, 2008, 07:18:56 PM
well done to chataeu!!! :yess:
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Chateau d If on April 25, 2008, 07:34:08 PM
Quote
I can further state that my research on the American and United offical timetable websites indicates that all of the 6 basic itineraries you have developed are valid except for the one through JFK.

Well that's odd.  Travelocity has them!

(http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc494/AllAboutTAR/index-40.jpg)
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: georgiapeach on April 25, 2008, 09:24:47 PM
Okay, re airport filming:

No official sanctioning for Chicago or Dallas....BUT if they turn off the cameras and don't film while they are transiting--they don't need airport permits.

Dulles and JFK-- can't reach the right person till Monday.

Interestingly, Miami was being permitted until "there was a schedule change" in the last couple of weeks and they cancelled...  were they really going to start there? Sounded like they thought so! ;)
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Kogs on April 27, 2008, 08:41:37 PM
Okay, re airport filming:
Interestingly, Miami was being permitted until "there was a schedule change" in the last couple of weeks and they cancelled...  were they really going to start there? Sounded like they thought so! ;)

miami was changed last minute due to production difficulties with the airlines. aka no second flight avalible.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: michael on April 27, 2008, 08:45:17 PM
If the race started filming on April 22nd wouldn't the teams be leaving brazil soon?
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on April 27, 2008, 09:38:35 PM
Michael, it depends on what their route is. If it is this:

4/23 Brasilia
4/25 Salvador
4/26 Recife
4/28 Manaus

then they might be leaving on Tuesday. If they had one less stop then they could have left today or be leaving tomorrow. If they went to Iguassu Falls and then to Paraguay and Bolivia, then they are long gone from Brazil. We just don't know at this point.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: michael on April 27, 2008, 09:53:10 PM
Michael, it depends on what their route is. If it is this:

4/23 Brasilia
4/25 Salvador
4/26 Recife
4/28 Recife

then they might be leaving on Tuesday. If they had one less stop then they could have left today or be leaving tomorrow. If they went to Iguassu Falls and then to Paraguay and Bolivia, then they are long gone from Brazil. We just don't know at this point.

Thanks apskip :D

I'm sure we'll hear something sooner or later
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: gingerman28 on April 28, 2008, 03:02:23 PM
Michael, it depends on what their route is. If it is this:

4/23 Brasilia
4/25 Salvador
4/26 Recife
4/28 Recife

then they might be leaving on Tuesday. If they had one less stop then they could have left today or be leaving tomorrow. If they went to Iguassu Falls and then to Paraguay and Bolivia, then they are long gone from Brazil. We just don't know at this point.

Thanks apskip :D

I'm sure we'll hear something sooner or later

If they end up in Recife the teams could fly to the Cape Verde Islands via TACV (The Cape Verde national airline) with direct flights to Praia (RAI).  That would add some new locations to the TAR scheme of things.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on April 28, 2008, 03:48:41 PM
Not that I consider it important, but the information that I have about TACV is that it makes the below flights to either Sal or Santiago isalnds. Fortaleza is shown for 3 tiems per week service to santiago and one to Sal, but Recife in not listed at all. Dakar has daily service and you can connect in from Guinea Bissau, but as pointed out previously who would want to? You can backtrack over a thousand miles from several European capital cities; again, who would want to? The most interesting possiblity is a once a week flight in from Las Palmas, Grand Canary Island. Here are all TACV flights in:

CAPE VERDE ISLANDS - GETTING THERE
ROUTES
Charter Flights 
London Gatwick

Manchester

Birmingham
 London Gatwick to Sal

Every Monday and Friday

Manchester to Sal
Every Tuesday

Birmingham to Sal
Every Friday
Starts 7 November 2008

London Gatwick to BoaVista
Every Friday
Starts 7 November 2008
 
London Gatwick or Manchester
to the island of Sal   

London Gatwick to Sal/Boavista
Every Thursday commencing 10 July

Manchester to Sal
Every Wednesday
Commencing 5 June
 
 UK Departures
via, Paris, Amsterdam or Lisbon from........Dublin
to the island of Sal. 
Using Aer Lingus and TACV Cape Verde airlines on a Thursday via Amsterdam, a Wednesday and Friday via Paris, or daily via Lisbon depending on the season

London Heathrow or London Gatwick
via Lisbon
to the islands of Sal Santiago and Boavista Currently operates daily
using TAP Air Portugal and TACV Cape Verde airlines

Lisbon to Boavista commences every Monday from 7 July 2008
 
Amsterdam
to the island of Sal 

Amsterdam to Sal
Every Sunday
 
Paris
to the islands of Sal and Santiago 

Paris to Sal
Every Friday

Paris to Santiago
Every Monday

Lisbon
to the island of Sal
 
Currently operates daily
TACV Cape Verde airlines.

Madrid
to the island of Sal
 
Madrid to Sal
Every Thursday
Commencing 10 July - 2 October

Oporto
to the island of Sal
 
Oporto to Sal
Every Thursday
Commencing 12 July - 13 September

Lisbon
to the island of
Santiago 

Lisbon to Santiago
Currently operates several times a week

Dakar
to the island of Santiago

Currently operates daily using TACV Cape Verde airlines.
 
Gran Canaria
to the island of Santiago 

Las Palmas to Santiago
Every Wednesday
 
Banjul (Gambia)
to the island of Santiago

Banjul to Santiago

Every Monday and Wednesday (via Dakar)

Fortaleza
to the islands of Sal and Santiago
Fortaleza to Sal
Every Saturday

Fortaleza to Santiago
Every Monday, Friday and Sunday

Boston (USA)
to the island of Santiago
Boston to Santiago
Every Wednesday

Guinea Bissau
to the island of Santiago

Guinea Bissau to Santiago
Currently operates every Thursday, Saturday and Sunday (via Dakar)
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: gingerman28 on April 28, 2008, 10:45:32 PM
Won't help TAR, but TACV service between RAI and Recife won't start until September 2008.  But they do fly twice weekly to Fortaleza.
Title: timeline
Post by: gingerman28 on April 30, 2008, 10:01:57 AM
It is quite easy to get from Sao Paulo(GRU) to Salvador de Bahia (SSA) with 8 non-stop daily and 2 one stop in Rio daily on TAM (The domestic Brazilian Airline).  Non-stop departing times and arrival times:

DEPART                                     ARRIVE

08.30                                         10.55
10:35                                         12.55
13.30                                          15.50
16.00                                          18.25
19.15                                           21.30
19.35                                           22.00
22.30                                           00.55
23.59                                           02.20

If the picture on the tower climb was taken on Apr.24 at 11:35AM, the teams could have taken the 08.30 flight after spending the day (Apr. 23) and evening in Sao Paulo (or thereabouts).  So the end of the first leg could have ended in the late afternoon; then a 12-hour pit stop; and teams leaving April 24 between  4:00AM and 7:00AM to catch the 08.30 flight to SSA.

Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on April 30, 2008, 02:57:13 PM
Flight Information for Selected Intra-Brazil City Pairs

SSA (Salvador) to REC (Recife) via Gol Transportes Aereos or TAM Lineas Aereas

1100 1210
1258 1408
1645 1755
1900 2015
2150 2300

SSA MAO (Manaus)
0915 1335 JJ 3304

SSA FOR (Fortaleza)
1130 1310 JJ 8003
2250 2355 G3 1604
0645 0940 G3 1642
1645 1940 JJ 3892
1940 2210 JJ 3894

SSA Belem - few long flights with lots of stops
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: gingerman28 on April 30, 2008, 09:28:35 PM
Flight Information for Selected Intra-Brazil City Pairs

SSA (Salvador) to REC (Recife) via Gol Transportes Aereos or TAM Lineas Aereas

1100 1210
1258 1408
1645 1755
1900 2015
2150 2300

SSA MAO (Manaus)
0915 1335 JJ 3304

SSA FOR (Fortaleza)
1130 1310 JJ 8003
2250 2355 G3 1604
0645 0940 G3 1642
1645 1940 JJ 3892
1940 2210 JJ 3894

SSA Belem - few long flights with lots of stops


This works out nicely.  Teams finish leg 2 in Salvador de Bahia on Friday, April 25, Fly to Fortaleza, and then catch the weekly TACV   flight to Cape Verde Islands  on Saturday!
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on May 01, 2008, 06:55:58 AM
GMAN,
Or they could wait until Sunday April 27 and fly to Santiago Island, which is bigger and has the capital of Praia and many more flights out. That assumes that they didn't go to Melbourne, Australia on my long-shot Trans-Pacific flights from Santiago Chile or Buenos Aires as has been rumored.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: gingerman28 on May 01, 2008, 10:35:01 AM
apskip, the Sunday flight might be a better bet than Saturday.  But would TPTB put all their marbles on one flight; one flight a week?  Might be a little risky.  So who knows where they go next from Salvador de Bahia. :duno:
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on May 01, 2008, 10:14:51 PM
For all of you who have been dying to know, here is how you do Salvador, Brazil to Melbourne, Australia:

choice of these connections to Santiago -
G3 1887 SSA GRU 1245 1530
JJ 8800  GRU SCL  1635 1950
or
JJ 3173 SSA GRU 1335 1600
G37456 GRU SCL 1750 2235

OR choice of these connections to Buenos Aires -
G3 1979 SSA GRU 1530 1800
JJ 8004 GRU EZE   1910 2200
or
JJ 3849 SSA GRU   1055 1315
RG8634 GRU EZE  1545 1835

Connecting to LAN841 SCL AKL 2245 0355+2  OR  AR1182 EZE AKL 2359 0440+2

Connecting flights  AKL MEL are QF26 0615 0815 or NZ7 0740 0930. This was tricky for me because when I put in Melbourne, Australia it gave me 2 choices, MEL Tullamarine Airport(the main airport there) and MLB Melbourne(but Florida, which really screwed me up until I figured out why it was taking 29 hours to get a relatively short distance).


  
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on May 02, 2008, 01:15:04 PM
AR13 TIMETABLE - first two legs

Depending on when they arrive at LAX, teams have choices of 3 flight combinations to Sao Paulo:

4/22
LAX DFW AA2446 1250 1740 connecting in Dallas with DFW GRU AA963 1945 0750+1 (Note: first to arrive if on schedule)

LAX MIA AA252 1355 2142 connceting in Miami with MIA GRU 2330 0830+1 (Note: second to arrive if on schedule)

LAX GRU UA843 1405 1005+1 with a stop in ORD from 2005 to 2132 (Note: third and last to arrive)

4/23
This means that the tasks in Sao Paulo will have to take until after noon at the very least and that with a 12 hour pitstop it will be after midnight when teams are released.

4/24
There are numerous 2 1/4 hour nonstop flights from Sao Paulo to Salvador. However, choices are limited to the first 2 daily by virtue of the sighting of teams descending the exterior of the elevator just after 9am on 4/24. Those who were sighted could only be on this flight:

G3 1816 GRU SSA 0410 0625

Later teams could be on G31982 GRU SSA 0735 0950, but they will be quite a bit later to the elevator.


 
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: gingerman28 on May 02, 2008, 02:34:18 PM
The times fit because we have two teams sighted at around 9:30AM on April 24 and another team (in the picture) at 11:35AM.  Looks like this would be the first task in Salvador da Bahia.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Kiwi Jay on May 02, 2008, 11:37:23 PM
The times fit because we have two teams sighted at around 9:30AM on April 24 and another team (in the picture) at 11:35AM.  Looks like this would be the first task in Salvador da Bahia.

The Elevator task
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Kiwi Jay on May 02, 2008, 11:39:14 PM
AR13 TIMETABLE - first two legs

Depending on when they arrive at LAX, teams have choices of 3 flight combinations to Sao Paulo:

4/22
LAX DFW AA2446 1250 1740 connecting in Dallas with DFW GRU AA963 1945 0750+1 (Note: first to arrive if on schedule)

LAX MIA AA252 1355 2142 connceting in Miami with MIA GRU 2330 0830+1 (Note: second to arrive if on schedule)

LAX GRU UA843 1405 1005+1 with a stop in ORD from 2005 to 2132 (Note: third and last to arrive)


4/23
This means that the tasks in Sao Paulo will have to take until after noon at the very least and that with a 12 hour pitstop it will be after midnight when teams are released.

4/24
There are numerous 2 1/4 hour nonstop flights from Sao Paulo to Salvador. However, choices are limited to the first 2 daily by virtue of the sighting of teams descending the exterior of the elevator just after 9am on 4/24. Those who were sighted could only be on this flight:

G3 1816 GRU SSA 0410 0625

Later teams could be on G31982 GRU SSA 0735 0950, but they will be quite a bit later to the elevator.



What about the teams spotted at Chicago OHare is that ORD??
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Slowhatch on May 02, 2008, 11:59:42 PM
Quote
What about the teams spotted at Chicago OHare is that ORD??
Yup.  :tup:
Quote
Oh, still wondering about the world's busiest airport, O'Hare International, and its ORD code? Well once upon a time, before the editor and publisher of the Chicago Tribune, Colonel Robert McCormick suggested a name change as tribute to pilot Lt. Cmdr. Edward "Butch" O'Hare, United States Navy, there was an airstrip well to the northwest of Chicago with a quaint, peaceful name—Orchard Field.
(source (http://www.skygod.com/asstd/abc.html), last paragraph)
Reference pages like this (http://www.airlinecodes.co.uk/aptcodesearch.asp) are always a help; or you can just google the airport name and "iata" and get a decent result.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Kiwi Jay on May 03, 2008, 03:24:11 AM
thanks so much!
Title: Re: The Amazing Race 13 *Spoilers Only!*
Post by: apskip on May 04, 2008, 05:09:20 PM
To answer the queston raised by GMAN, arrival in Melbourne would have been April 29 at 815am or 930am. If the next stop were Hobart or Adelaide, then most likely arrival there would be May 1(same with anywhere else). With travel from Hobart or Adelaide or anywhere else, most likely arrival into Siam Reap - Angkor International Airport would be on May 3. the list of daily flight arrivals there is astounding(I would have guessed just from Bangkok and maybe Singapore before knowing this). For those unfamiliar with airline timetables, 1=Monday and 7 =Sunday:

Summer schedule - From  Friday, March 28, 2008 To Thursday, October 23, 2008
Time  Origin  Weekdays  Flight  Airline  
08:30 Bangkok --3---- PG911  
 
09:00 Bangkok 1234567 PG903  
 
09:25 Vientiane -23-5-7 QV512  
 
09:30 Bangkok 1---5-- PG911  
 
09:45 Hochiminh 1234567 VN809  
 
09:50 Singapore -2-4--- MI622  
 
10:30 Nanning --3-5-7 MU745  
 
11:20 Pakse -2--5-- FT636  
 
11:35 Singapore ------7 MI616  
 
11:35 Da Nang ----5-- MI630  
 
12:00 Luang Prabang 1234567 VN869  
 
12:05 Kuala Lumpur 1--4--- MH764  
 
12:05 Pusan --3---- U4264  
 
12:20 Bangkok 1234567 PG905  
 
12:40 Hochiminh 1234567 VN827  
 
13:10 Hochiminh 1234567 VN807  
 
14:05 Seoul - Incheon 12----- U4262  
 
14:15 Luang Prabang 1--4-6- QV513  
 
14:25 Guangzhou 1-3--6- CZ3053  
 
15:55 Singapore 1----6- MI633  
 
16:30 Bangkok 1234567 PG913  
 
16:30 Hochiminh 1234567 VN823  
 
16:50 Hochiminh 1234567 VN823  
 
17:05 Hanoi 1234567 VN843  
 
17:30 Hochiminh 1234567 VN829  
 
17:35 Da Nang --3---- MI636  
 
18:10 Hochiminh 1234567 VN847  
 
18:30 Chiang Mai ---4-6- PG927  
 
18:45 Hong Kong 1---5-- FT827  
 
18:50 Hanoi 1234567 VN845  
 
19:00 Bangkok 1234567 PG907  
 
19:35 Hochiminh 1234567 VN849  
 
19:40 Bangkok 1234567 PG909  
 
19:55 Kunming 1234567 MU753  
 
20:00 Bangkok 1234567 PG909  
 
20:00 Hanoi 1234567 VN801  
 
20:35 Hochiminh 1234567 VN821  
 
20:50 Hanoi 1234567 U4232  
 
21:10 Seoul - Incheon 123456- KE687  
 
21:30 Seoul - Incheon 1234567 KE687  
 
22:55 Seoul - Incheon 1234567 OZ737  
 
23:10 Pusan -----6- U4264  
 
23:40 Seoul - Incheon ---45-- U4262  
 
Time  Origin  Weekdays  Flight  Airline  

Flights originating in Hobart would logically go through either Bangkok or Singapore to get to Siam Reap.


Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: puddin on May 05, 2008, 07:45:22 PM
Santiago Chile! I requested an exact date from the blogger --
eta... (http://thenomadlife.blogspot.com/2008/03/so-many-words.html)and I am afraid that I will have little time to write all these stories out. I have a ticket back to the States on April 30th. I will be flying out of Santiago, Chile.




Monday, May 5, 2008
My flight out of Santiago-

 
Sometimes people make foolish mistakes that have small consequences and other mistakes can be quite costly, I made one of the costly ones last week. I booked a ticket from Santiago to Oklahoma, the ticket was $450, all the other flights were around a thousand dollars, so of course I booked the cheaper flight, when I showed up to the airport in Santiago I went to check in and the flight was not on the board, and the counter did not upon for 8 hours, so I asked a service personal and she said that she had never heard of the flight number. So I went to the airlines office and then I found out that I had booked a flight from Santiago Dominican Republic and not Santiago Chile,   ! And as a special bonus the several teams from the Amazing Race through the airport while I was there.

Posted by Justin Vorel at  (http://thenomadlife.blogspot.com/2008/05/my-flight-out-of-santiago.html)
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on May 06, 2008, 07:22:36 AM
Looks like Bangkok Airways runs all the flights from Siem Reap to Bangkok. Can't really figure out when Bangkok Airport blogger saw the teams, so dumping this info here before we make sense of it all:

PG924: 0950 to 1045
PG906: 1250 to 1400
PG914: 1400 to 1510
PG928: 1930 to 2040 (Thursdays & Saturdays only)
PG912: 1930 to 2025 (Mondays, Wednesdays & Fridays only)
PG908: 1935 to 2045
PG910: 2020 to 2130
PG910: 2015 to 2125

Siem Reap Airways has flights from Bangkok to Siem Reap, but not the other way round. Thinking they go through Phnom Penh first before going back to Thailand...



I have Air India, Jet Airways and Thai Airways running direct from Bangkok to Delhi, and many many connecting flights that go through Mumbai. So far I've only found two direct flights:

AI9854: 1335 to 1615
TG315: 1745 to 2045
9W63: 1825 to 2130

From Bangkok to Mumbai (which involves a backtrack):

9W61: 0840 to 1145
AI9694: 0840 to 1110 (Mondays & Saturdays)
AI9694: 1625 to 1900 (Everyday but Mondays & Saturdays)
AI6317: 1845 to 2155
TG317: 1845 to 2155 (codeshare?)

and from Bangkok to Kolkata:

9W65: 0940 to 1040
TG313: 2345 to 0045
AI6313: 2345 to 0045 (codeshare?)
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on May 06, 2008, 09:19:26 AM
TIMETABLE through Angkor Wat, Cambodia leg

AR13 TIMETABLE - first two legs

Depending on when they arrive at LAX, teams have choices of 3 flight combinations to Sao Paulo:

4/22
LAX DFW AA2446 1250 1740 connecting in Dallas with DFW GRU AA963 1945 0750+1 (Note: first to arrive if on schedule)

LAX MIA AA252 1355 2142 connecting in Miami with MIA GRU 2330 0830+1 (Note: second to arrive if on schedule)

LAX GRU UA843 1405 1005+1 with a stop in ORD from 2005 to 2132 (Note: third and last to arrive)

4/23
This means that the tasks in Sao Paulo will have to take until after noon at the very least and that with a 12 hour pitstop it will be after midnight when teams are released.

4/24
There are numerous 2 1/4 hour nonstop flights from Sao Paulo to Salvador. However, choices are limited to the first 2 daily by virtue of the sighting of teams descending the exterior of the elevator just after 9am on 4/24. Those who were sighted could only be on this flight:

G3 1816 GRU SSA 0410 0625

Later teams could be on G31982 GRU SSA 0735 0950, but they will be quite a bit later to the elevator.

4/26
We do not know where teams go next. It could be Fortaleza, Recife, Manaus, Brasilia, LaPaz, Santacruz, Asuncion or elsewhere.

4/28
What we are sure of is that teams end up at Santiago Chile airport on this evening.

LAN801 2245 0355+2 SCL AKL

then either QF26 0615 0815 AKL MEL  or NZ7 0740 0930 AKL MEL

4/30
sightings of Amazing Race banners in downtown Melbourne in the afternoon

5/2
departure needed to head north to Cambodia

MEL SYD QF415 0715 0830
SYD BKK TG994 1000 1625
connecting in Bangkok to PG907 BKK REP 1740 1900 or PG909 BKK REP 1920 1940

or

MEL SIN SQ238 1010 1605
SIN BKK SG978 1800 1925

5/3
overnight in Bangkok, then BKK REP PG903 0800 0900
This separation could be mostly neutralized by hourus of operation if WRP wishes.
connecting in Bangkok to

Angkor Wat, Cambodia

What is clear at the end of this leg is that teams have completed 5 legs(3 South America, one Australia, one Cambodia).


5/4
Siem Reap to Bangkok airport
Most probable flights out will be PG904 REP BKK 0950 1045 or PG906 REP BKK 1250 1400 although there are 3 more later.

Bangkok airport to Delhi
Choice of these 3 nonstop flights:
IC854 BKK DEL 1330 1615 or
TG315 1745 2045 or
9W 063 1825 2130


Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: puddin on May 06, 2008, 10:39:33 AM
TIMETABLE through Angkor Wat, Cambodia leg
 

4/26
We do not know where teams go next. It could be Fortaleza, Recife, Manaus, Brasilia, LaPaz, Santacruz, Asuncion or elsewhere.

4/28
What we are sure of is that teams end up at Santiago Chile airport on this evening.


LAN801 2245 0355+2 SCL AKL

then either QF26 0615 0815 AKL MEL  or NZ7 0740 0930 AKL MEL

4/30
sightings of Amazing Race banners in downtown Melbourne in the afternoon

 

Yeah but the blogger in Santiago wrote that his ticket out of Santiago to Oklahoma was for April 30th but we are trying to get confirmation so to say the 28th how are you sure apskips? I'm not taking the Melbourne sighting as gospel.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on May 06, 2008, 05:40:32 PM
I am sure of how long it takes to fly from Santiago to Auckland, of when LAN801 is scheudled to leave and when it is scheduled to arrive. All the rest is speculation based on the blog of the 4/30 afternoon sigthing in Melbourne. It does not have to be so. Having the leg be on the North Island of New Zealand is very possible. Now I am going to consult an Amazing Race fan who lives in Devonport(northern suburb of Auckland where the infamous girl on swing task of ARA1 episode 4 was), my very own sister. Maybe she can help.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: gingerman28 on May 06, 2008, 09:51:01 PM
I am sure of how long it takes to fly from Santiago to Auckland, of when LAN801 is scheudled to leave and when it is scheduled to arrive. All the rest is speculation based on the blog of the 4/30 afternoon sigthing in Melbourne. It does not have to be so. Having the leg be on the North Island of New Zealand is very possible. Now I am going to consult an Amazing Race fan who lives in Devonport(northern suburb of Auckland where the infamous girl on swing task of ARA1 episode 4 was), my very own sister. Maybe she can help.

Melbourne should be a no-starter since the teams were in Santiago, Chile on April 30.  So they must have left the evening of April 30 and with the IDL they should arrive in NZ on May 2.  And then we have them in Cambodia on May 3.  So time lines are getting squeezed unless dates are wrong.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on May 06, 2008, 10:23:23 PM
My response to this is on the SPOILERS thread!
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Mrs Shrek on May 06, 2008, 10:30:56 PM
If teams left Santiago on April 30, they cannot arrive in Auckland until May 2. They have to be in Siem Reap that evening in order to be at Angkor Wat the following morning. There is no possibility of any leg in New Zealand or Australia.

*If* we assumed for the moment that there maybe was no leg in NZ or Australia, how does this leave the schedule as far as getting down to 6 teams (or maybe 7 if one was on a FF/way behind) after leaving Cambodia? Would there be a big enough gap in South America for an extra leg before the 30th?
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: puddin on May 06, 2008, 10:48:29 PM
*If* we assumed for the moment that there maybe was no leg in NZ or Australia, how does this leave the schedule as far as getting down to 6 teams (or maybe 7 if one was on a FF/way behind) after leaving Cambodia? Would there be a big enough gap in South America for an extra leg before the 30th?

We lost them for 6 days if we think that the tasks in Bahia de Salvador ended on the 25th of April give or take, I'm leaning towards them leaving Bahia on the 25th.

http://forum.realityfanforum.com/index.php/topic,15356.msg299800.html#msg299800
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on May 07, 2008, 12:26:48 AM
Thanks to Jason, Justin, GeorgiaPeach and Apskip we have narrowed it down to this!

Teams were spotted in Santiago on the night of Tuesday the 30th, and have to be in Siem Reap by the morning of Sunday the 4th (working backwards from the afternoon sighting on the Tonle Sap). Given the confirmation of the Santiago spoiler and a refutal of the Melbourne one, shifting the timeline to two days later, does that still leave enough time for a leg in the middle?

I found only one Pacific flight leaving on the night of the 30th from Santiago airport, and this is the same as in apskip's post for flights leaving on the 28th:

From Santiago to Auckland
LA801/QF322: 2245 (Wed night) to 0355 (Fri morning)
From Auckland to Sydney
LA801/QF322: 0525 (Fri morning) to 0705 (Fri morning)

1) All teams take the same flight to Auckland on Wednesday night.
2) They would have spent eight days, for at least three legs, in South America (23-30 April inclusive).


If teams are headed directly to Siem Reap from Santiago, they'd do best through Bangkok:

From Sydney to Bangkok
TG994: 1000 (Fri morning) to 1625 (Fri afternoon)
From Bangkok to Siem Reap
PG907: 1740 (Fri evening) to 1900 (Fri night)

But in this scenario, they would be spending five days in the same city (and not a very big one at that). I draw the conclusion that...

3) Yes, there probably is one, but only one, intermediate leg between Santiago and Siem Reap.



Following the other lead: since there were six boats on the Tonle Sap and six teams were sighted on the flight to Bangkok, this probably means that:

4) The Pit Stop was probably a non-elimination. (But what happened to the African-Americans?)
5) Teams are bunched on the first flight on Tuesday 6 May.
6) They are released at night from the Pit Stop (not in time to catch the last flight at 2015), indicating an afternoon finish on the previous leg (ending Monday 5 May).


From Siem Reap to Bangkok
PG924: 0950 to 1030 (confirmed through Jason)

From Bangkok to Delhi (from apskip's earlier post)
IC854: 1330 to 1615 (most likely the case, from Jason's information)
TG315: 1745 to 2045
9W63: 1825 to 2130

Connecting through Mumbai would get the teams in earliest 2215. Not top choice for the teams.

7) No matter what flights they end up on, teams will arrive in Delhi the afternoon/night of Tuesday 6 May, and will probably run most of the leg the next day.



The bottom line:
Tue 22 April - Teams leave from LAX for Sao Paulo.
Wed 23 April to Tue 29 April - Teams spend at least three legs in South America.
Wed 30 April - Teams depart Santiago on the night of the 30th for Auckland, possibly onwards to Sydney.
Thr 1 May - Disappears due to the Date Line.
Fri 2 May to Sat 3 May - Teams participate in an unidentified leg.
Sun 4 May - Teams, very possibly arriving in Cambodia the morning, head to the Tonle Sap.
Mon 5 May - Teams run a Cambodia leg and have a Pit Stop in the afternoon, departing late at night.
Tue 6 May - Teams spend the day travelling to Delhi, arriving in the late afternoon/night.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: georgiapeach on May 07, 2008, 09:31:44 AM
Neobie I love you!

But Justin did think teams left Santiago in 2 waves....and thought that the first batch was gone by 7-ish? Or perhaps he just didn't see them in the airport again?
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on May 07, 2008, 09:45:33 AM
Grabbing this off Santiago Airport's website...

Intl flights from 1700 to 1800: Florianopolis, Rio de Janeiro
Intl flights from 1800 to 1900: Toronto, Frankfurt, Buenos Aires, Madrid
Intl flights from 1900 to 2000: Buenos Aires
Intl flights from 2000 to 2100: Buenos Aires, New York, Lima, Rio de Janeiro, Sao Paulo, Miami
Intl flights from 2100 to 2200: Los Angeles, Lima, Dallas
Intl flights from 2200 to 2300: Auckland, Sydney

The Los Angeles through to Asia option is probably too late for a 7pm departure.

Apskip mentioned upthread about AR1182, from Buenos Aires to Auckland, departing 2359 and arriving two days later at 0440. But that's later than the 0355 arrival for our direct flight to Auckland...
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: georgiapeach on May 07, 2008, 09:50:55 AM
Could our African-American team be AHEAD?

If teams were gone by 8 when Justin left--how else could they go? He also mentioned Buenos Aires as having lots of flights.

And thinking WAY outside the box--what about other places for our leg entirely? Hawaii, Philippines, Anywhere? :lol:

I have to be away til evening but will try to ask Justin times again today. I have faith that y'all will have this all figured out by tonight for me to see!!  :kuss:
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on May 07, 2008, 10:11:34 AM
"Insane route" and "Santiago, Chile" got me thinking... Easter Island?

From Santiago to Easter Island
LA833: 1645 to 2025

Does Justin know whether international flights are separated from domestic flights where he saw the teams?

And even if this doesn't fit in between Santiago and Siem Reap, could it be one of the missing South American legs?
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: patlini on May 07, 2008, 10:16:53 AM
Hi all

today is a good day to check departures from Santiago as it is exactly a week from when the teams were spotted.

Peach  when Justin said teams were gone by 7ish did he mean to their flights, or into the departures lounge.

I am agreeing that the flights to either Sydney or Auckland seem the most feasible.

Attached is a list of flights leaving santiago tonight

(http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc494/AllAboutTAR/index-41.jpg)
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: redwings8831 on May 07, 2008, 10:21:09 AM
According to the list above, are we sure that they are leaving South America from Santiago. Couldn't Santiago just be the departure city, as they could have flown to Lima or Buenos Aires before leaving South America. Los Angeles could be a long shot also, but it seems like that would take way too long.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on May 07, 2008, 10:31:18 AM
Looked up Wikipedia (you know how reliable that is)...

No flights from Rio, Lima or Florianopolis to the Asia/Pacific. Sao Paulo has a flight to Tokyo through New York, and a flight to Beijing through Madrid, but these are probably too far-fetched?

(Going to get some rest. :zzz See y'all in the morning!)
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on May 07, 2008, 01:20:03 PM
No, Neobie, actually not too far-fetched but inefficient. Here are some diverse flight information that relates to the many questions before us:

1. How long from Auckland to Bangkok? Can it be done without stopping in Australia? 14 hours(starting from when the most efficient routing leaves Auckland, not when the connection coming in from Santiago would ideally be ready to support) and NO.

QF190  AKL SYD 1225 1450
QF 301 SYD BKK 1655 2315 Note that this gets in way too late to connect in to Siem Reap. a layover until morning is required.

If you combine this with the 4am arrival of LAN801 into AKL(13 hours flying time), you have an 8 hour layover, then the 14 hours here and the total is 35 hours.

2. What is another fast way of getting from South America to Bangkok?

That would be the Buenos Aires to CapeTown to Johannesburg to Kuala Lumpur routing:

EZE CPT 2020 0900
CPT JNB 1015 1215
JNB KUL 1340 0540
KUL BKK 0750 0900

This takes 25 hours in transit.
If you add in Santiago to Buenos Aires at the front end, then you add SCL EZE 1410 1705 and another 6 hours for a total of 31 hours.

Due to the layover needed in Auckland, the efficient connections of this route make it quicker than the trans-SouthPacific route.

3, What about a transNorthPacific route? This can be done from either EZE via JFK or SCL via DFW and on to Tokyo-Narita. The times are:

EZE JFK 2020 0605
JFK NRT 1150 1430+1

SCL DFW 2115 0610
DFW NRT 1225 1505+1

then either one goes NRT BKK 1850 2355

This is 40 hours from Buenos Aires or 39 hours from Santiago, neither one of which is remotely competitive. Scratch these as possibilities.

4. My Conclusions:
If the goal were to get from Santiago to Bangkok in the quickest possible way, then they should have gone via South Africa. However, I think Bertram van Munster wanted to do something daring and unexpected, something that nobody would ever think he could do. The transSouthPacific route means that criterion perfectly and that's why I think it's what was actually done. I actually envisioned a leg in New Zealand or Australia. Who knows? It may have happened. If they went straight through to Bangkok, then I can say one thing with high probability. World Race Prodcutions will have scheduled in a REST DAY on either side of the Pacific so that teams are not totally burned out. It may have been in Santiago or just before it and it may also have been in Bangkok. I doubt that it was in Siem Reap where it is harder to get lost in a crowd.


Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Mrs Shrek on May 07, 2008, 03:03:43 PM
Are flights to Cambodia only possible via Bangkok, or could Singapore be another possible transit point on the way to Siem Reap?
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: TARAsia Fan on May 07, 2008, 03:14:17 PM
Ap? This is your department. My father went to Siem Reap a few years ago and I do recall he went through Hong Kong and Phnom Penh.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: redwings8831 on May 07, 2008, 03:24:23 PM
According to wikipedia:

The town is 7 km from the Siem Reap-Angkor International Airport (IATA code REP). Siem Reap is accessible by direct flights from Phnom Penh, Sihanoukville, Singapore, Bangkok, Kuala Lumpur, Vientiane, Luang Prabang, Hanoi, Ho Chi Minh City, Da Nang, Hong Kong, Seoul-Incheon, Pusan, Kunming, Kaohsiung and Taipei, and by land from Phnom Penh and the Thai border. It’s also accessible by boat and bus from Phnom Penh.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siem_Reap
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Mrs Shrek on May 07, 2008, 05:05:23 PM
According to wikipedia:

The town is 7 km from the Siem Reap-Angkor International Airport (IATA code REP). Siem Reap is accessible by direct flights from Phnom Penh, Sihanoukville, Singapore, Bangkok, Kuala Lumpur, Vientiane, Luang Prabang, Hanoi, Ho Chi Minh City, Da Nang, Hong Kong, Seoul-Incheon, Pusan, Kunming, Kaohsiung and Taipei, and by land from Phnom Penh and the Thai border. It’s also accessible by boat and bus from Phnom Penh.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siem_Reap

Thanks for that info Redwings :tup:
I was getting confused when only Bangkok kept getting mentioned. Many of those places listed have direct flights from either Aussie or NZ, so I guess most of them have been ruled out already simply cos they don't depart/arrive at the right time of day
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on May 07, 2008, 06:44:47 PM
I've looked at flights through Singapore, but the earliest they can get into Siem Reap is on Saturday late afternoon, almost a day behind the Bangkok flight.

But I think what we should look at is whether teams go directly from Santiago to Siem Reap, as opposed to having a leg in between. The latter is probably the case given the speed in which teams can actually get there; even if there were earlier flights through other cities, taking the Bangkok option would leave racers about two days idle before they're actually spotted in Cambodia.

It's a type of proving by disproving, I guess?
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: puddin on May 07, 2008, 06:59:53 PM
Neobies awake  :jumpy:

I know peach is lurking around here somewhere maybe she can confirm that Justin said that teams arrived dirty & exhausted at the Santiago airport which may mean they needed a rest day afterwards?
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on May 08, 2008, 01:39:00 AM
(http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/3762/16810367qv2.gif)
(Insert joke in bad taste about the missing leg.)

Having gone through the places with direct flights to Siem Reap, here are some possible race destinations for our intrepid racers for running a leg in...

Timings will have to include a possible 12-hour Pit Stop:
Singapore - 1 day, 20h, 5min for racing
Bangkok - 1 day, 18h, 45min for racing
Ho Chi Minh City - 1 day, 16h, 40min for racing
Sydney - 1 day, 14h, 5min for racing
Auckland - 1 day, 12h, 5min for racing
Seoul - 1 day, 2h, 20min for racing
Guangzhou - 22h, 0min for racing
Hanoi - 20h, 0min for racing

(Although if racers are willing to try out that many more connections, I can't help but :faint:)



If you really must know:

Santiago to Auckland LA801/QF322: 2245 (Wed night) to 0355 (Fri morning)
Auckland to Sydney LA801/QF322: 0525 (Fri morning) to 0705 (Fri morning)
Sydney to Singapore SQ220: 0805 (Fri morning) to 1420 (Fri afternoon)
Singapore to Siem Reap MI616: 1025 (Sun morning) to 1135 (Sun morning)
Checked Auckland-Singapore and Auckland-Brisbane-Singapore

Santiago to Auckland LA801/QF322: 2245 (Wed night) to 0355 (Fri morning)
Auckland to Sydney LA801/QF322: 0525 (Fri morning) to 0705 (Fri morning)
Sydney to Bangkok TG994: 1000 (Fri morning) to 1625 (Fri afternoon)
Bangkok to Siem Reap PG907: 1740 (Fri evening) to 1900 (Fri night)

Santiago to Auckland LA801/QF322: 2245 (Wed night) to 0355 (Fri morning)
Auckland to Sydney LA801/QF322: 0525 (Fri morning) to 0705 (Fri morning)
Sydney to Ho Chi Minh City VN782: 1115 (Fri morning) to 1545 (Fri afternoon)
Ho Chi Minh City to Siem Reap VN809: 0825 (Sun morning) to 0945 (Sun morning)
Checked Auckland-Ho Chi Minh City

Santiago to Auckland LA801/QF322: 2245 (Wed night) to 0355 (Fri morning)
Auckland to Sydney LA801/QF322: 0525 (Fri morning) to 0705 (Fri morning)
Sydney to Bangkok TG992: 2110 (Sat night) to 0559 (Sun morning)
Bangkok to Siem Reap PG903: 0800 (Sun morning) to 0900 (Sun morning)
Checked Sydney-Singapore-Bangkok route

Santiago to Auckland LA801/QF322: 2245 (Wed night) to 0355 (Fri morning)
Auckland to Sydney TG4826: 1600 (Sat afternoon) to 1730 (Sat afternoon)
Sydney to Bangkok TG992: 2110 (Sat night) to 0559 (Sun morning)
Bangkok to Siem Reap PG903: 0800 (Sun morning) to 0900 (Sun morning)

Santiago to Auckland LA801/QF322: 2245 (Wed night) to 0355 (Fri morning)
Auckland to Sydney LA801/QF322: 0525 (Fri morning) to 0705 (Fri morning)
Sydney to Seoul KE122: 0800 (Fri morning) to 1740 (Fri afternoon)
Seoul to Siem Reap OZ737: 2000 (Sat night) to 2325 (Sat night)

Santiago to Auckland LA801/QF322: 2245 (Wed night) to 0355 (Fri morning)
Auckland to Sydney LA801/QF322: 0525 (Fri morning) to 0705 (Fri morning)
Sydney to Guangzhou CZ326: 0950 (Fri morning) to 1700 (Fri afternoon)
Guangzhou to Siem Reap CZ3053: 1300 (Sat afternoon) to 1525 (Sat afternoon)
Checked Auckland-Guangzhou route

Santiago to Auckland LA801/QF322: 2245 (Wed night) to 0355 (Fri morning)
Auckland to Sydney LA801/QF322: 0525 (Fri morning) to 0705 (Fri morning)
Sydney to Ho Chi Minh City VN782: 1115 (Fri morning) to 1545 (Fri afternoon)
Ho Chi Minh City to Hanoi VN782: 1800 (Fri evening) to 2000 (Fri night)
Hanoi to Siem Reap U4232: 1600 (Sat afternoon) to 1800 (Sat evening)
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on May 08, 2008, 09:26:37 AM
Neobie, most of the information you show above was essentially duplicative in terms of already known results. however, you did inspire me to look at one route that should have been examined but that I overlooked previously because it's so sneaky:

Santiago
Auckland
Sydney
Singapore
Bangkok

The reason why this is sneaky is that no flights leave Sydney for Bangkok before mid-afternoon, so there is a huge layover. However, there are two morning flights from Sydney to Singapore and both should be connectable from LAN801 coming in at 7am after its stop in Auckland. Here is what I mean:

SQ220 SYD SIN 0815 1420
TG414 SIN BKK 1530 1650 (or 15 minutes later on departure and arrival, depending on which one you like; both sets are listed on some schedules)

This gets teams into Bangkok to easily make connections into Siem Reap in the late afternoon, such as Bangkok Airways 5901 1720 1840 BKK REP.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on May 08, 2008, 09:38:13 AM
DELHI TO DUBAI (that has a nice alliteraton to it)

We can take that alliteration one step further once we find out that one of the 2 best routes to Dubai is via Doha. That is like the old tinker to Evers to Chance double play combination of the 1908 chicago Cubs - Delhi to Doha to Dubai.

DEL DOH QR233 0500 0620
DOH DXB QR100 0755 1000

OR

DEL AUH 9W582   2100 2335
AUH DXB 9W7485 0115 0245

The first is Qatar Airways through Doha and the second Jet Airways through Abu Dhabi.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on May 08, 2008, 09:48:42 AM
Apskip, I apologize for not being more lucid. The focus of the post wasn't really about how teams get into Siem Reap, but how long teams could spend at each place, showing the probability that the airport "hinterland" (New Zealand for Auckland, for example) could be the missing leg between Santiago and Siem Reap.

I understand that you're working under the notion that Santiago to Siem Reap is one continuous leg. However, teams would have little problem reaching Siem Reap by Friday night, a long long time for production to drag out in a single city until Tuesday when they leave for Bangkok. The proposal of a "rest day" in Bangkok is sound, but historically I've never heard of production having one outside of the Pit Stops, in the middle of a leg. The Siem Reap Pit Stop wasn't extended either, as we have sightings of racers in action both on Sunday and Monday.

blahblah The flights above, therefore, aren't chosen because they are overall quickest, but how long a layover it provides in certain destination cities - how early teams could get into a destination from Santiago, and how long they could stay there (for a leg) before rushing to make their appearance on Tonle Sap on Sunday.

An example - Ho Chi Minh City and surrounds, with its 40h layover, would be a much more plausible location to spend a leg than Hanoi with 20h, which is hardly enough time to run a leg, have a Pit Stop, and getting to and from the airport. This, of course, is working under the assumption that there is a leg in between Santiago and Siem Reap.




On another note, teams arrived in Terminal 2 in Dubai, I think. Qatar comes in through Terminal 1. Jet Airways' 9W7485 is a bus service (http://www.jetairways.com/Cultures/en-US/United+Arab+Emirates/Products+and+Services/On+Ground+Services/Bus+Services/), not a flight, so it probably wouldn't entail teams passing through airport customs at Dubai.

Could they have taken the direct from Air India? (This schedule, lifted from the Air India website, is also where I got the "apparent two-hour" flight from.)

AI9897: 0750 to 0945
AI9895: 2000 to 2155
AI747: 2055 to 2245



:groan: Ack, airplane kudzu and essay dissertations! I speak too much.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on May 08, 2008, 01:43:13 PM
neobie, those are all valid flight numbers. The reason that I did not find them on general-purpose airline reservations systems is that they are all filled from May 8 to May 11 except for AI747. The Air India reservations systems will boldly tell you to rebook for May 12 or later. Even then, specific flights are already sold out in fare classes for May 12 and forward. Other reservations will not even acknowledge the existence of those flights if they all fully booked.

I conclude that World Race Productions planners must have reserved lots of seats for the teams and for production way in advance. They did not want a repeat of what happened leaving Maputo in AR11.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: mswood on May 08, 2008, 02:27:21 PM
Yeah it is probably one of the legs where they have a provided flights. They typically do have that sort of thing once a season or so.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on May 08, 2008, 04:32:48 PM
I wanted to get a jump on where teams might be going after Dubai. Dubai is really a crossroads of the world and its flight schedules prove that. I have analyzed only the outbound flights north and west, ignoring anything eastbound. I have also ignored local flights to places like Bahrain, Doha, Muscat, or Kuwait. So here goes starting at 2100 local Dubai time, which was a few hours ago:

SV551 Jeddah 2100
IY863 Sanna   2100
SV553 Riyadh  2145
ET3616 Addis Ababa 2230
DL007 Atlanta  2235
KL428 Amsterdam 0010
UM733 Harare  0030
LY383 Lampaca(Cyprus) 0035
BI097 Heathrow 0055
AF525 Paris CDG 0100
KQ233 Nairobi   0105
J2016 Baku      0110
BA016 Heathrow 0125
LH631 Frankfurt  0135
LX243 Zurich     0140
AZ747 Rome     0145
EK203 JFK         0200
OS042 Vienna   0205
OA344 Athens  0205
SU520 Moscow 0210
CX067 Frankfurt 0225
TK1163 Istanbul 0245
EK011 Gatwick  0245
AH4065 Algiers  0325
MS911 Cairo      0330
SQ490 Istanbul 0400
MS919 Alexandria 0415
EK761 Johannesburg 0440
MH156 Beirut      0440
ET601 Addis Ababa 0445
BG039 Riyadh     0445
KL430 Amsterdam 0700
JCI102 Amman    0700
CX039 Amsterdam 0705
CX063 Brussels 0710
EK917 Damscus 0715
EK957 Beirut     0720
Ek035 Newcastle 0720
EK787 Abidjan   0730
RJ613 Amman    0730
XU522 Nairobi   0730
EK751 Casablanca 0735
EK095 Nice        0735
Ek001 Heathrow 0735
TK1165 Istanbul 0745
LH639 Munich     0745
EK025 Glasgow  0750
EK099 Milan       0750
EK017 Manchester 0755
EK 015 Gatwick 0805
EK039 Birmingham 0805
EK072 Paris CDG  0825
EK045 Frankfurt  0825
EK707 Seychelles 0825
EK723 Entebbe   0825
Ek201 JFK           0830
EK049 Munich     0835
EK770 CapeTown 0835
EK241 Toronto    0835
EK087 Zurich       0840
EK055 Dusseldorf 0840
EK921 Cairo        0850
EK059 Hamburg  0850
PG027 Cairo       0900
Ek4839 Khartoum 0900
Ek749 Tripoli       0900
EK211 Houston   0905
SV6265 Jeddah  0905
BA108  Heathrow 0910
EK407 Vienna     0910
EK931 Heathrow 0910
EK783 Lagos      0915
VS401 Heathrow 0925
EK605 Athens     0935
EK135 Venice      0945
EK029 Heathrow 0950
EK133 Moscow    0955
SWT985P Cairo   1000
SV6263 Jeddah   1005
EK719 Nairobi     1005
EK763 Johannesburg 1005
MH6144 Frankfurt 1020
9S9991 Paris CDG 1030
Y7254 Luton        1030
EK725 DarEsSalaam 1050
EK9957 Zaragoza 1105
EK49901 Nairobi   1120
AF529 Paris CDG   1140
HY334 Tashkent    1230
AF6733 Paris CDG 1255
WY685 Beirut        1255
PK243 Moscow      1255
CX079 Frankfurt    1255
JCX903 Frankfurt   1300
KL168 Amsterdam  1315
SV367 Jeddah        1345
S79612 Perm         1345
FX5034 Paris CDG  1350
EK903 Amman        1400
EK003 Heathrow    1415
EK047 Frankfurt     1430
EK121 Istanbul      1430
Ek057 Dusseldorf   1430
Ek019 Manchester 1435
EK733 Khartoum    1440
EK763 Johannesburg 1440
Ek009 Gatwick       1500
EK037 Birmingham 1500
RJ611 Amman         1500
Ek075 Paris CDG     1500
Ek923 Cairo            1510
MS913 Cairo           1530
SV559 Riyadh         1600
Ek085 Zurich          1605
S7868 Moscow       1625
FC901 Riyadh         1630
FC603 Riyadh         1630
EK051 Munich         1630
XY602 Riyadh          1635
EK603 Jeddah         1645
7B1056 Moscow     1650
EK953 Beirut          1700
TU830 Tunis           1710
ET603 Addis Ababa 1800
SX006 Cologne       1800
SV555 Riyadh         1815
D97522 Moscow     1820
EK817 Riyadh         1825
UN9166 Moscow     1905
P5374 Kiev             1930
AZQ406 Baku         2000
B6353 Asmara       2000
NN8522 Moscow    2040
SP233 Khartoum    2045
ME429 Beirut         2050
XY604 Jeddah        2055

The one place that intrigues me the most is Cyprus. The flight there (Lampaca) leaving at 0035 goes to an island where the Amazing Race has neve been and is overdue to visit.

There are 129 international non-regional flights shown above. these could go to many different countries directly and making connections in an initial place they could end up practically anywhere in Europe or Africa.



 
 

Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: georgiapeach on May 08, 2008, 06:05:33 PM
Thanks apskip! I was offline a good bit today and kept thinking--suppose Dubai is just a change planes place?

This gives us a lot to consider.

I would love to see Egypt again but new would also be good!
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: gingerman28 on May 08, 2008, 09:03:26 PM
That's a lot of places to go to after Dubai.  I would eliminate all those cities in Saudi Arabia (can't see our gals running around loose there) and in the troubled mid east (Amman, Damascus, etc.)

Some interesting ones in Africa, but TAR has been to most of them.  Harare?

Too early for Europe or return to the States, so eliminate all European and Norh American spots.

That reduces the list quite a bit

Some other new ones:  Algiers, Tunis, Tashkent, Tripoli
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Zack. on May 08, 2008, 11:57:19 PM
That's a lot of places to go to after Dubai.  I would eliminate all those cities in Saudi Arabia (can't see our gals running around loose there) and in the troubled mid east (Amman, Damascus, etc.)

Some interesting ones in Africa, but TAR has been to most of them.  Harare?

Too early for Europe or return to the States, so eliminate all European and Norh American spots.

That reduces the list quite a bit

Some other new ones:  Algiers, Tunis, Tashkent, Tripoli

From what I've heard (or not heard) Jordan's one of the better Middle Eastern countries, and I could see them going there before Saudi Arabia or Syria. Ditto Harare (though Malawi could be interesting).

And I wouldn't discount Europe just yet. TAR4 went to Asia in leg 6, TAR2 went to Asia in leg 5. Many others went in leg 7-8 (TAR1, TAR5, TAR7, TAR9, TAR12), so flipping the direction, a Europe leg wouldn't be unlikely (Azerbaijan, perhaps? There's a direct flight to Baku).
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on May 09, 2008, 08:00:52 AM
Actually, zackattack308, there are 2 flights to Baku. One is at 0110 and the other at 2000.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on May 09, 2008, 08:52:40 AM
TIMETABLE through arrival at Dubai(for leg there or transit elssewhere)

AR13 TIMETABLE - first two legs

Depending on when they arrive at LAX, teams have choices of 3 flight combinations to Sao Paulo:

4/22
LAX DFW AA2446 1250 1740 connecting in Dallas with DFW GRU AA963 1945 0750+1 (Note: first to arrive if on schedule)

LAX MIA AA252 1355 2142 connecting in Miami with MIA GRU 2330 0830+1 (Note: second to arrive if on schedule)

LAX GRU UA843 1405 1005+1 with a stop in ORD from 2005 to 2132 (Note: third and last to arrive)

4/23
This means that the tasks in Sao Paulo will have to take until after noon at the very least and that with a 12 hour pitstop it will be after midnight when teams are released.

4/24
There are numerous 2 1/4 hour nonstop flights from Sao Paulo to Salvador. However, choices are limited to the first 2 daily by virtue of the sighting of teams descending the exterior of the elevator just after 9am on 4/24. Those who were sighted could only be on this flight:

G3 1816 GRU SSA 0410 0625

Later teams could be on G31982 GRU SSA 0735 0950, but they will be quite a bit later to the elevator.

4/25 - 4/28
We do not know where teams go next. It could be Fortaleza, Recife, Manaus, Brasilia, LaPaz, Asuncion or elsewhere. It is highly highly likely that there is a REST DAY on 4/30 in the Santiago area.

4/28
Teams arrive in Santa Cruz Bolivia

4/29
Teams fly from Santa Cruz to Santiago. Chocies are:
LAN967 VVI SCL 1205 1725
LAN967 VVI IQT 1205 1355  LAN365 IQT SCL 1920 2230
TA34     VVI LIM 0805 0900  TA33     LIM SCL  2100 0205+1

4/30
It is highly highly likely that there is a REST DAY in the Santiago area.
What we appear to be sure of is that teams end up at Santiago Chile airport on this evening.

LAN801 2245 0355+2 SCL AKL

5/2
LAN801 0500 0700 AKL SYD
SQ220 0815 1425 SYD SIN
TG414 1530 1650 SIN BKK
PG907 1740 1900 BKK REP  OR PG909 1800 1940

5/3
REST DAY in Siem Reap area (although it could have come one day earlier in Auckland, Sydney, Singapore, or Bangkok)

5/5
Siem Reap to Bangkok airport
Most probable flights out will be PG904 REP BKK 0950 1045 or PG906 REP BKK 1250 1400 or PG914 1430 1540 although there are 2 more later. The news that there is a known 4 hour layover in Bangkok is interesting.

Choice of these 3 nonstop flights form BKK to DEL:
IC854 BKK DEL 1330 1615 or
TG315 1745 2045 or
9W063 1825 2130

The first pair has 2 3/4 hours between PG204 and IC854, so that doesn't fit. the second pair has 3 3/4 hours between PG906 and TG315, so that is an excellent fit. the third pair has 2 3/4 hours between PG914 and 9W063, so that doesn't fit. It looks like our flight connection is:

PG906 1250 1400 REP BKK
TG315 1745 2045 BKK DEL

Arrival into downtown Delhi would be after 10pm. I am going to guess that they run into an hours of operation restriction fairly quickly.

5/6
Delhi

5/7
Delhi to Dubai nonstop flights:
AI9897 DEL DXB 0745 0945
AI9895 DEL DXB 2000 2155
AI747 DEL DXB 2055 2245

However, some close connections cannot be ruled out:
DEL DOH QR233 0500 0620  connecting to  DOH DXB QR100 0755 1000
DEL AUH 9W582   2100 2335 connecting to AUH DXB 9W7485 0115 0245 (Neobie says this is a bus; I believe him)
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Chateau d If on May 09, 2008, 10:07:57 PM
Quote
LAX GRU UA843 1405 1005+1 with a stop in ORD from 2005 to 2132 (Note: third and last to arrive)

Apskip, this flight is highly unlikely.  Did you read Peach's report on when teams were spotted at ORD walking to board UA flight 843 to Sao Paulo at about 7:45 pm?  You have placed teams on a LAX to ORD flight that does not even arrive to ORD until 8:05 pm.  That is 20 minutes after they were spotted walking in the terminal!  Not possible.

The only valid options are these two flights originally suggested by Neobie back on page 1:
UA 114: 1204 to 1807
UA 116: 1255 to 1855

Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on May 10, 2008, 07:52:06 AM
Chateau,
You may be right, but you have missed something important. Why would a team select connecting flights when they could be on the plane and flight that is going to Sao Paulo (UA 843)? The very simple probable explanation is that the winds were high and that flight got into Chicago early to account for the sigthing 15 minutes before 8pm.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on May 10, 2008, 08:49:35 AM
Here are the flight possiblities from Santa Cruz Bolivia(VVI) to Santiago Chile(SCL) for 4/29:

Best is the one-stop(Iquique Chile) LAN967 VVI SCL 1205 1725.

Next best but unlikely to happen is if teams were unable to get the second leg of LAN 967 -
LAN967 VVI IQQ 1205 1355
LAN IQQ SCL 365 1920 2230 (one-stop in Antofagasta)

Finally, the least desirable is TACA34 VVI LIM 0805 0900
TACA33 LIM SCL 2100 0205+1 (We've seen this one before in AR11).
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on May 10, 2008, 09:23:05 AM
CITIES EASILY REACHABLE FROM SANTA CRUZ

American Airlines - Miami, Dallas, NewYorkJFK
Aerosur - EZE GRU MIA MAD IQT AQP(Arequipa), Asuncion, SLA(Salta)
LAN Ecuador - MIA JFK UIO(Quito) GYE SCL ASU BOG EZE CCS CUZ GRU MAD MEX MVD(Montevideo) GIG
LAN Peru - MIA LAX JFK LIM AQP CIX(Chiclayo) CUZ GYE IQT JUL(Juliaca) MOA(Maldonado) UIO GIG SCL TCG(Tacna) TPG(Targatao) TRU(Trujillo)
LAN Argentina - Salta EZE CCS LIM GYE UIO GRU IGR(Iguassu) SCL ROS(Rosario) RGL (Rio Gallegos) BRO(Bariloche) CRD(Commodoro Rivideria) COR Cordoba FTE El Cafate
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: georgiapeach on May 10, 2008, 10:50:32 AM
Thanks Apskip!

One thing...we were thinking that PHIL maybe flies out a day early to Santiago on 4/29, leaving the teams at an extended Pitstop.

Teams could still then fly out on 4/30. Looks as though the first of those flights works for Justin's sighting in the airport, but might not work for the arrives in 2 waves thing.

I'll try to reclarify w/him later about exactly where in the airport they were.

And lordie...that's a lot of airport codes to look up! Any chance you can translate as you go for those of us airport code dummies? :nuala:
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Chateau d If on May 10, 2008, 12:29:33 PM
Chateau,
You may be right, but you have missed something important. Why would a team select connecting flights when they could be on the plane and flight that is going to Sao Paulo (UA 843)? The very simple probable explanation is that the winds were high and that flight got into Chicago early to account for the sigthing 15 minutes before 8pm.

No, I didn't miss it.  That is my second point:    :funny:  So, what you mean by 'very simple probable explanation' is that all 4 teams that ChristiaanV saw landed in Chicago some time before 7:45 pm on flight 843, got off their plane at Gate 20, walked around the terminal, turned around, and walked to gate 20 at 7:45 pm , and got back on the plane they just arrived on (flight 843).   :groan:

Quote
*We saw The Hippies, we saw the Blondes in Pink, and we saw what we would describe as two 23-26 year old "Slacker Dudes"
*This guy was with... what we were guessing his mom

What are the chances of that?

Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on May 10, 2008, 09:54:01 PM
Chateau, pretty good in my estimation.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on May 10, 2008, 10:06:18 PM
CITIES EASILY REACHABLE FROM SANTA CRUZ

American Airlines - Miami, Dallas, NewYorkJFK
Aerosur - EZE GRU MIA MAD IQT AQP(Arequipa), Asuncion, SLA(Salta)
LAN Ecuador - MIA JFK UIO(Quito) GYE SCL ASU BOG EZE CCS CUZ GRU MAD MEX MVD(Montevideo) GIG
LAN Peru - MIA LAX JFK LIM AQP CIX(Chiclayo) CUZ GYE IQT JUL(Juliaca) MOA(Maldonado) UIO GIG SCL TCG(Tacna) TPG(Targatao) TRU(Trujillo)
LAN Argentina - Salta EZE CCS LIM GYE UIO GRU IGR(Iguassu) SCL ROS(Rosario) RGL (Rio Gallegos) BRO(Bariloche) CRD(Commodoro Rivideria) COR Cordoba FTE El Cafate


OK, Peach, so you want airport codes for dummies. Just for you, one time only here they are for the ones not already listed:

EZE Buenos Aires International
GRU Sao Paolo
MIA Miami (also Missing in Action if used on TV or in newspapers)
MAD Madrid
IQT Iquitos, Peru (in the Amazon)
ASU Asuncion, Paraguay
JFK - I think you already know this one
GYE - Guayaquil, Ecauador (its largest city and seaport)
SCL - everyone better know Santiago, Chile by now
BOG - the capital of Colombia, Bogota
CCS - the capital of Venezuela, Caracas
CUZ - Cuzco, the high city of Peru (about 3000 feet above Macchu Picchu's train station)
MEX - the largest metropolitan area is Latin America(barely ahead of Sao Paolo), Mexico City
GIG - Rio de Janeiro
LIM - Lima, the cpaital city of Peru

Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: puddin on May 10, 2008, 10:11:47 PM
Airports By Airport Code (http://www.world-airport-codes.com/alphabetical/airport-code/a.html) .....for dummies :lol: , or just type it into your browser search, thats what I do.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: georgiapeach on May 10, 2008, 10:34:07 PM
Thanks guys!  :hugs:

I knew how to find them--it was just doing the whole list at once that had my eyes spinning! :lol:
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on May 11, 2008, 09:51:16 AM
AR13 TIMETABLE - first two legs

Depending on when they arrive at LAX, teams have choices of 3 flight combinations to Sao Paulo:

4/22
LAX DFW AA2446 1250 1740 connecting in Dallas with DFW GRU AA963 1945 0750+1 (Note: first to arrive if on schedule)

LAX MIA AA252 1355 2142 connceting in Miami with MIA GRU 2330 0830+1 (Note: second to arrive if on schedule)

LAX GRU UA843 1405 1005+1 with a stop in ORD from 2005 to 2132 (Note: third and last to arrive)

4/23
This means that the tasks in Sao Paulo will have to take until after noon at the very least and that with a 12 hour pitstop it will be after midnight when teams are released.

4/24
There are numerous 2 1/4 hour nonstop flights from Sao Paulo to Salvador. However, choices are limited to the first 2 daily by virtue of the sighting of teams descending the exterior of the elevator just after 9am on 4/24. Those who were sighted could only be on this flight:

G3 1816 GRU SSA 0410 0625

Later teams could be on G31982 GRU SSA 0735 0950, but they will be quite a bit later to the elevator.


Hey, CHATEAU, the jokes on you! Note the date of this posting and focus on 4/24 GRU (Sao Paulo) to SSA (Salvador).
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Chateau d If on May 11, 2008, 11:48:23 AM
Quote
choices are limited to the first 2 daily ...

This is what is you got wrong.  Name the times!  You don't have two that are valid.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on May 11, 2008, 12:24:28 PM
That said, it is not impossible for TPTB to arrange for an earlier Los Angeles-Chicago flight to mess with our racers' heads! Or an overnight bus to Bahia? :snicker:

I smell burning gasoline! *small voice* Did I venture into Sucks by mistake?

So on the 29th, teams were in La Paz and Phil was leaving Santa Cruz. Is Santa Cruz merely a connection point for Phil to Santiago? (LAN is the only airline flying La Paz OR Santa Cruz to Santiago. Aerosur, LAN Peru and TACA Peru connect La Paz to Santa Cruz. Can't get through to the schedules right now.)



On another note, I've been wondering where the legs fit into South America. What do you guys think?

Premise #1) Seven boats suggest six teams in Cambodia; this means five prior eliminations.
Premise #2) There is likely to be one leg between Santiago and Cambodia. (Reasoning in Post #60.)

1) If both premises hold, there are at least four eliminations in South America.

Premise #3) Teams are checked into Bolivia by the afternoon of the 29th and Phil bails.
Premise #4) Teams depart in the middle of the night of the 29th, and can only leave the country on the 30th.
Premise #5) Santiago airport sightings were at 4-6pm, 30th Apr.

2) No time for an elimination leg between Bolivia and Santiago.

So Santiago is only a connection point for the Far East? But why are the teams dirty and tired? Could there have been a TBC on the 30th?!



Although this is pretty baseless, I've been bothered by the repeat destination of Sao Paulo. Too similar, too soon! Could it very well be the place where teams grab tickets and overnight accomodation, then get shuttled over to Bahia, following the tradition of all previous season premieres (except TAR9, irony huh?). There's still five days to fit in the three following legs:

Leg 1   Los Angeles to Sao Paulo to Salvador   22/23/24/25 April
Leg 2   Salvador to S America   25/26/27 April (speculative end date)
Leg 3   S America to S America   27/28 April (speculative dates)
Leg 4   S America to Bolivia   28/29 April (speculative start date)
Leg 5   Bolivia to Santiago to Auckland to Asia/Oceania
Remote chance of a TBC before Santiago
   29/30 April, 1/2/3 May
Leg 6   Asia/Oceania to Cambodia   3/4/5 May
Leg 7   Cambodia to Delhi   5/6/7 May
Leg 8   Delhi to Dubai   7 May onwards
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Chateau d If on May 11, 2008, 12:59:11 PM
Well dang.  It was looking good Neobie!  You'd better replace it with something better!
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: puddin on May 11, 2008, 01:59:05 PM
Good stuff guys  :tup: :jam:

some trivia, the first U-Turn turned up EP4 TAR12 in Bingo, with Lorena & Jason , ultimately eliminated.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on May 11, 2008, 03:54:42 PM
Neobie, according to my thinking your leg 5 and 6 are combined into a single leg.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Chateau d If on May 11, 2008, 04:43:22 PM
Thanks for bringing it back Neobie.  I like your post #64 idea.  See below:

(this is coming in two parts due to image size limit)

(http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc494/AllAboutTAR/index-42.jpg)
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Chateau d If on May 11, 2008, 04:43:52 PM
And part 2:

(http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc494/AllAboutTAR/index-44.jpg)
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on May 11, 2008, 04:58:30 PM
LaPaz to Santiago

The first possibility is the flight leaving LPB at 0805 to Lima, connecting there but not arriving SCL until 0205+1. All other listed flight combinations take 24 hours or more, so I thought I would have a go at putting together my own combination through Santa Cruz.  Since Lloyd Aero Bolivia(LAB) airline ceased operation in 2007, flying around Bolivia got rather difficult. Here are the Aerosur flight combinations LPB to VVI:

111    La Paz - Cochabamba     1  07:00     07:35     35 min.  
111    Cochabamba - Santa Cruz     2  08:05     08:50     45 min.  
        
111    La Paz - Cochabamba     1  07:00     07:35     35 min.  
302    Cochabamba - Santa Cruz     2  09:00     09:45     45 min.  
        
111    La Paz - Cochabamba     1  07:00     07:35     35 min.  
137    Cochabamba - Santa Cruz     2  18:10     18:55     45 min.  
        
111    La Paz - Cochabamba     1  07:00     07:35     35 min.  
119    Cochabamba - Santa Cruz     2  20:05     20:50     45 min.  
          
300   La Paz - Santa Cruz    1   07:15    08:15    60 min.
          
210   La Paz - Santa Cruz    1   08:30    09:30    60 min.
          
125   La Paz - Santa Cruz    1   14:00    15:00    60 min.
        
134    La Paz - Cochabamba     1  15:05     15:40     35 min.  
137    Cochabamba - Santa Cruz     2  18:10     18:55     45 min.  
        
134    La Paz - Cochabamba     1  15:05     15:40     35 min.  
119    Cochabamba - Santa Cruz     2  20:05     20:50     45 min.  
        
119    La Paz - Cochabamba     1  19:00     19:35     35 min.  
119    Cochabamba - Santa Cruz     2  20:05     20:50     45 min.  
          
109   La Paz - Santa Cruz    1   19:10    20:10    60 min.
          
107   La Paz - Santa Cruz    1   21:00    22:00    60 min

The five nonstop 1 hour flights at 0715, 0830 1400, 1910, and 2100 would be the best choices. Since the bus service takes 16 to 25 hours between LPB and SantaCruz, it is not an option.

The next step is to combine it with the flight to SCL. Both of the first 2 nonstop flights combine well with:

LAN967 VVI IQT 1205 1725

So, it takes much of  the day to get to Santiago and the plane arrives at 1725 if from either LaPaz or Santa Cruz. This dictates that the arrival day in SCL has to be Tuesday April 29(alowing a REST DAY) or Wed. April 30 to connect with LAN 801 at 2245 on 4/30.


Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on May 11, 2008, 07:33:02 PM
Apskip, I have LA967 running from Santa Cruz to Iquique (1205 to 1355) and then to Santiago (1515 to 1725). Which set of information do you think is correct?

Dang, so is Phil only connecting through Santa Cruz on the way from La Paz to Santiago or... the other way round, running from a previous leg's finish in Santa Cruz to the next leg in La Paz?
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: puddin on May 11, 2008, 07:43:24 PM
Gosh that would be a tough call Neobie, Phil tracking to La Paz from Santa Cruz ...especially having read the blog  (http://huttylucke.blogspot.com/2008/05/santa-cruz-to-buenos-aires.html) about the weather and all.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on May 11, 2008, 09:37:15 PM
Apskip, I have LA967 running from Santa Cruz to Iquique (1205 to 1355) and then to Santiago (1515 to 1725). Which set of information do you think is correct?

Dang, so is Phil only connecting through Santa Cruz on the way from La Paz to Santiago or... the other way round, running from a previous leg's finish in Santa Cruz to the next leg in La Paz?

Neobie, I think the information I had in my post #89 at 9:49am yesterday was accurate intially on the 1-stop flight LA967 except for a minor error in identifying the stop in Iquitos Peru (IQT) when it really is as you have stated in Iquique Chile (IQQ). That flight does go from Santa Cruz to Iquique, have a 1 hour 20 minute layover, and then continue with the same flight number to Santiago, arriving at 1725 when on schedule.

However, in my post#105 I did manage to pick up the later flight arrival combination rather than the correct one, so thank you for picking that up. I correcteded post #105 as a result of your eagle eye.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on May 11, 2008, 10:57:47 PM
Let's assume Phil wants to get from La Paz to the Asia/Pacific; flight-wise it makes sense - a connection through Santa Cruz is one of the best options.


Teams leave Santiago for Auckland and arrive 3.55am, Friday 1st May. There are two ways for Phil to beat them:

LA801/QF322 from Santiago to Auckland: 2245 (Tues night) to 0355 (Thr morning)
AR1182 from Buenos Aires to Auckland: 2359 (Tues night) to 0440 (Thr morning)

The thing is, there are no flights on Tuesdays from La Paz to either Santiago or Buenos Aires. Which brings us to Phil in Santa Cruz:

Option #1
LA967 from Santa Cruz to Iquique: 1205 to 1355 (Tues afternoon)
LA967 from Iquique to Santiago: 1515 to 1725 (Tues afternoon)
To catch LA801/QF322 to Auckland at 2245 (Tues night)

Option #2
5L210 from Santa Cruz to Buenos Aires: 1045 to 1430 (Tues afternoon)
To catch AR1182 to Auckland at 2359 (Tues night)

Option #3
AR1363 from Santa Cruz to Buenos Aires: 1410 to 1810 (Tues afternoon)
To catch AR1182 to Auckland at 2359 (Tues night)



BUT could Phil leave La Paz in time to catch even the latest combination, leaving Santa Cruz at 1410? Looking at apskip's Aerosur flights, he would have to leave La Paz at 8.30am - way too early to do anything with the teams running around La Paz on Tuesday. LAN and TACA turn up nothing either.

Conclusion? Phil is probably racing to La Paz with the teams; which makes Santa Cruz the previous leg?
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Chateau d If on May 11, 2008, 11:59:25 PM
Thanks Neobie.   :tup:  Now I don't have to feel bad for speculating in the spoiler thread.   ;)
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: puddin on May 12, 2008, 12:30:53 AM

Conclusion? Phil is probably racing to La Paz with the teams; which makes Santa Cruz the previous leg?
Sounds good to me Neobie, thank you!! Gosh the dates are so tight....

Just checked the weather underground (http://Santa Cruz) and sure enough it looks like out Santa Cruz blogger did not mix her days up.

April 29th @ 9:00 AM  Thunderstorms and Rain
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on May 12, 2008, 12:44:52 AM
One problem cropped up... when is the Santa Cruz Pit Stop? Is there even one?

If the teams have checked into Santa Cruz by Monday night, Phil could easily have taken the Tuesday 7am flight to La Paz instead of waiting until noon. It hasn't started raining then according to Andrew & Michelle.

But if Phil was waiting around in Santa Cruz for the teams to check in on Tuesday morning, that means teams check out twelve hours later in the evening, and won't the setting up of tasks in La Paz (on Tuesday) be one day too early?

What if it were a continuous "Bolivia" leg that involves both Santa Cruz and La Paz (28/29/30 April)? Even if Sao Paulo/Salvador was one continuous leg as well (22/23/24 April), we'd still have three full days of 25/26/27 April to run Legs 2 and 3, totally possible since the distances are not far...
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on May 12, 2008, 06:39:51 AM
Let's assume Phil wants to get from La Paz to the Asia/Pacific; flight-wise it makes sense - a connection through Santa Cruz is one of the best options.


The thing is, there are no flights on Tuesdays from La Paz to either Santiago or Buenos Aires.

There are such flights, although they technically land after midnight. I did not bother to mention them because they are not reasonable compared to the route of flying back to SantaCruz to get on to Santiago. Also, I do not subscribe to your Buenos Aires route although I pointed it out a long time ago, since there are too few teams in the race at this point to warrant having two separate transSouthPacific flights. I believe all teams will be bunched on one flight.

One of the flights from LaPaz to Santiago is on American Airlines and via Miami, which is the long way to do it. It leaves at 0645 and arrives at 0625 the next morning. The better option is TACA to Lima: TA38 0855 0945 LPB LIM  TA33 2145 0205 LIM SCL
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on May 12, 2008, 03:12:26 PM
With a little time to spend on refinement of prior data, I have developed the case  of where that is new teams might have gone if they were just connecting through Dubai airport. To the best of my knowledge, right now we don't know whether they stopped in Dubai (which has been done multiple times already) or went right on (more likely). There are 5 incoming flights I have listed:

0945 AI nonstop
2155 AI nonstop
2245 AI nonstop
1000 QR connection
0245 9W connection

I expect that an allowance of just over 1 hour is appropriate for an international connection in Dubai. That would give 5 time slots lasting for up to 3 hours each. Under each one I am listing the flights to places never before visited by the Amazing Race or flights to Gatwick(35 miles south of London) and CDG (12 miles northwest of Paris) where you could easily jump off to places other than London or Paris.

0000
Harare 0030
Lampaca 0035
CDG 0100
Nairobi 0105  I made an exception for Nariobi as I want to see AR13 go there
Baku 0110

0400
Alexandria, Egypt 0415
Beirut 0440
Addis Ababa 0445
Riyadh 0445

1100
Zaragoza Spain 1105
Nairobi 1120
CDG 1140
Tashkent 1230
Beirut 1255
CDG 1255

1200
repeat last 3 above
Perm, Siberia 1345
CDG 1350
Manchester 1435
Khartoum 1440
Gatwick 1500
CDG 1500

2300
See those for 0000


This does not mean that AR13 can't go to Frankfurt, Zurich, Rome, Vienna, Athens, Moscow, Istanbul, Cairo, Johannesburg, Amman, Amsterdam, Newcastle, Damascus, Abidjan, Casablanca, Nice, Munich, Milan, Birmingham, Seychelles, Entebbe, CapeTown, Hamburg, Jeddah, Lagos, Venice, Luton, Dusseldorf, or Asmara. It certainly can, although I hope that it won't(except for the new places that in the wrong time slots) and will go to one of the new places in the right time slots.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on May 13, 2008, 07:45:24 AM
the possiblity of Kazahstan(puddin's speculation on spoliers post #114) intrigues me a great deal. Few of us, even the geographers among us, know much about Kazazhstan. I had to give myself a brief overview course on it. There are a few major cities:

Almaty (formerly known as Alma Ata to ice skating enthusiasts who remember that this is where the Soviet Unioin trained its skaters; it may also be where there was some space launches if memory serves me), the former capital

Ashkabad

Astana - current capital city

Karaganda

Shymkent

Talas/Taras


Here is the domestic  WINTER SCHEDULE(not currently in effect) of its airline (Air Astana) from Almaty to give you an idea of where fligihts are made and how often:

AKTAU  А320  KC 860  .....6.  00:50  04:30  KC 859  20:10  22:20 
AKTAU  B757-200  KC 858  .2.4...  11:00  14:40  KC 857  07:20  9:30 
AKTAU  B757-200  KC 858  1.3.5..  11:45  15:25  KC 857  08:00  10:10 
AKTAU  B737-800  KC 858  ......7  11:45  15:25  KC 857  08:05  10:15 
AKTAU  YAK42  DV 832  .....6.  13:30  18:50  DV 831  08:10  11:20 
AKTAU  AN24  DV 822  ..3....  13:30  20:20  DV 821  10:00  15:40 
AKTAU  А320  KC 860  1......  23:50  03:30  KC 859  21:10  23:20 
AKTYUBINSK  А320  KC 864  .2.4567  10:40  14:05  KC 863  07:40  9:15 
AKTYUBINSK  B737-700  KC 864  1......  11:20  14:45  KC 863  08:15  9:50 
AKTYUBINSK  YAK42  DV 816  ....5..  18:25  22:05  DV 815  15:00  16:45 
ASTANA  B737-700  KC 852  .2...6.  09:40  11:20  KC 853  12:55  14:40 
ASTANA  B737-700  KC 854  1234567  15:40  17:20  KC 853  12:55  14:40 
ASTANA  B737-700  KC 956  ....5..  18:10  19:50  KC 853  12:55  14:40 
ASTANA  B737-700  KC 954  .234...  20:40  22:20  KC 955  15:25  17:10 
ASTANA  B737-700  KC 992  1234567  21:05  22:45  KC 991  06:15  7:55 
ASTANA  B737-700  KC 856  1234567  21:40  23:20  KC 855  18:55  20:40 
ASTANA  B737-700  KC 954  ......7  22:00  23:40  KC 953  19:15  21:00 
ASTANA  B737-700  KC 954  ....5..  22:00  23:35  KC 953  19:15  21:00 
ASTANA  B737-700  KC 956  1......  22:40  00:20  KC 955  19:55  21:40 
ATYRAU  B757-200  KC 878  1......  09:55  16:15  KC 879  06:25  11:00 
ATYRAU  AN24  DV 836  .2...6.  15:00  22:35  DV 835  08:00  13:40 
ATYRAU  F-50  KC 974  1..4...  15:35  23:15  KC 973  08:00  14:35 
ATYRAU  B757-200  KC 886  ......7  23:00  02:50  KC 885  19:30  21:40 
KARAGANDA  F-50  KC 312  .23.567  11:00  13:25  KC 311  07:50  10:10 
KARAGANDA  B737-700  KC 312  1......  16:40  17:50  KC 311  14:20  15:30 
KARAGANDA  B737-700  KC 312  ...4...  21:05  22:15  KC 311  18:45  19:55 
KUSTANAY  AN24  DV 830  1234567  13:50  17:35  DV 829  09:10  13:00 
KZYL-ORDA  F-50  KC 960  1..4...  12:00  14:15  KC 959  08:40  11:15 
KZYL-ORDA  F-50  KC 976  .23.567  12:00  14:15  KC 975  08:40  11:15 
PAVLODAR  B737-700  KC 306  ..3..6.  22:15  23:50  KC 305  19:20  22:05 
PAVLODAR  F-50  KC 306  123.56.  22:55  01:30  KC 305  19:20  21:05 
PETROPAVLOVSK  YAK40  7Я 4479  ..3.5.7  10:00  13:55  7Я 4480  15:15  19:20 
SHIMKENT  AN24  DV 805  1..4...  14:30  16:20  DV 806  18:30  20:20 
SHIMKENT  B737-700  KC 972  .23.567  16:35  17:45  KC 971  14:20  15:35 
U-KAMENOGORSK  B737-700  KC 302  1234567  09:30  11:00  KC 301  07:10  8:30 
ULGII  AN24  DV 826  ..3....  16:00  19:20  DV 825  07:40  15:00 
ZHEZKAZGAN  YAK40  KZH 3000  1.3....  10:30  12:50  KZH 3001  14:30  16:50 
ZHEZKAZGAN  AN24  DV 839  .2.4...  17:30  19:05  DV 840  13:40  16:20 
ZHEZKAZGAN  YAK40  KZH 3000  ....5.7  18:00  20:10  KZH 3001  21:00  23:20 

From Astana, the international westbound schedule has 7 days a week flights to Moscow, 5 to Frankfurt and 3 to Istanbul.

From Almaty, the international westbound schedule has 7 days a week flgihts to Istanbul, 7 to Moscow, 5 to Amsterdam, 5 to Frankfurt and 5 to Dubai.

The important thing is how to get from Dubai to Kazakhstan. It is easy. On the day we need it, a Thursday corresponding to May 8 arrival in Dubai, KC895 flies from Dubai 0705 arriving at 1030. It was not shown in my prior post "preferred sublistings" table because it was just more than 3 hours from the 0400 window. There are also other ways to do it through Baku or through Tashkent, but direct to Alamaty is the best.



 
 
 
 
 

 
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on May 14, 2008, 06:48:04 PM
TIMETABLE through arrival at Dubai(for leg there or transit elsewhere) with update on Auckland through Siem Reap
 
AR13 TIMETABLE - first two legs

Depending on when they arrive at LAX, teams have choices of 3 flight combinations to Sao Paulo:

4/22
LAX DFW AA2446 1250 1740 connecting in Dallas with DFW GRU AA963 1945 0750+1 (Note: first to arrive if on schedule)

LAX MIA AA252 1355 2142 connecting in Miami with MIA GRU 2330 0830+1 (Note: second to arrive if on schedule)

LAX GRU UA843 1405 1005+1 with a stop in ORD from 2005 to 2132 (Note: third and last to arrive)

4/23
This means that the tasks in Sao Paulo will have to take until after noon at the very least and that with a 12 hour pitstop it will be after midnight when teams are released.

4/24
There are numerous 2 1/4 hour nonstop flights from Sao Paulo to Salvador. However, choices are limited to the first 2 daily by virtue of the sighting of teams descending the exterior of the elevator just after 9am on 4/24. Those who were sighted could only be on this flight:

G3 1816 GRU SSA 0410 0625

Later teams could be on G31982 GRU SSA 0735 0950, but they will be quite a bit later to the elevator.

4/25 - 4/28
We do not know where teams go next. It could be Fortaleza, Recife, Manaus, Brasilia, LaPaz, Asuncion or elsewhere. It is highly highly likely that there is a REST DAY on 4/30 in the Santiago area.

4/28
Teams arrive in Santa Cruz Bolivia

4/29
Teams fly from Santa Cruz to Santiago. Chocies are:
LAN967 VVI SCL 1205 1725
LAN967 VVI IQT 1205 1355  LAN365 IQT SCL 1920 2230
TA34     VVI LIM 0805 0900  TA33     LIM SCL  2100 0205+1

4/30
It is highly highly likely that there is a REST DAY in the Santiago area.
What we appear to be sure of is that teams end up at Santiago Chile airport on this evening.

LAN801 2245 0355+2 SCL AKL

5/2
teams enjoy a REST DAY in Auckland from the early morning until late evening, then return to the Auckland International Airport to continue the transSouthPacific quest:

SQ282 2255 0645 AKL SIN

5/3
SQ972 1030 1155 SIN BKK
PG913 1510 1630 BKK REP

5/5
Siem Reap to Bangkok airport
PG904 REP BKK 0950 1045 .

Choice of this nonstop flights from BKK to DEL:
IC854 BKK DEL 1330 1615

arrival into downtown Delhi would be around 1800.

It looks like the alternate flight connection for any lagging teams is:

PG906 1250 1400 REP BKK
TG315 1745 2045 BKK DEL

5/6
Delhi

5/7
Delhi to Dubai nonstop flights:
AI9897 DEL DXB 0745 0945
AI9895 DEL DXB 2000 2155
AI747 DEL DXB 2055 2245

However, some close connections cannot be ruled out:
DEL DOH QR233 0500 0620  connecting to  DOH DXB QR100 0755 1000
DEL AUH 9W582   2100 2335 connecting to AUH DXB 9W7485 0115 0245 (Neobie says this is a bus; I believe him)

5/8 - 5/13  TO BE DETERMINED

5/14 FINISH LINE in The Rose City, Portland Oregon
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: puddin on May 14, 2008, 08:30:40 PM
Just to keep you jumping apskips ;)

Hi Stacy,

I saw TAR teams today as well at PDX.  I drive the international buses at PDX but not today.  However, I was driving the terminal parking lot  buses today and saw a camera man /sound man  running after a very tan blond woman in a florescent green sporty outfit, backpack  and one of those TAR  clue cards (?)  in her hand just about the time  the Germany  flight  would have landed. They were getting a taxi here at PDX.  I had to keep  my  eyes on my driving  but a person in the bus said they were from The Amazing Race.

My  next  loop  around (20 minutes later),  I arrived  at the terminal  and  saw  more teams grabbing a taxi.  Fortunately  I was driving the Employee lot bus  and one of the supervisors  (who  got  on  camera & had to sign a TAR release  for TV)   confirmed that the teams  in fact were from TAR and got off the Lufthansa  flight from Germany to Portland OR.    They were headed  up to Washington state.  He also said there were only  4 teams and perhaps  the other two teams  went up via  Seattle first -  but that of course is purely  speculation.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: gingerman28 on May 14, 2008, 08:47:57 PM
Just to keep you jumping apskips ;)

Hi Stacy,

I saw TAR teams today as well at PDX.  I drive the international buses at PDX but not today.  However, I was driving the terminal parking lot  buses today and saw a camera man /sound man  running after a very tan blond woman in a florescent green sporty outfit, backpack  and one of those TAR  clue cards (?)  in her hand just about the time  the Germany  flight  would have landed. They were getting a taxi here at PDX.  I had to keep  my  eyes on my driving  but a person in the bus said they were from The Amazing Race.

My  next  loop  around (20 minutes later),  I arrived  at the terminal  and  saw  more teams grabbing a taxi.  Fortunately  I was driving the Employee lot bus  and one of the supervisors  (who  got  on  camera & had to sign a TAR release  for TV)   confirmed that the teams  in fact were from TAR and got off the Lufthansa  flight from Germany to Portland OR.    They were headed  up to Washington state.  He also said there were only  4 teams and perhaps  the other two teams  went up via  Seattle first -  but that of course is purely  speculation.
Well, that sort of confirms our spec of a non-stop flight from FRA to PDX.  So the question is: where did the teams go from Dubai?  Somewhere in Europe?  Or just passing through FRA (a major connecting point as is Dubai) from somewhere else?
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on May 15, 2008, 08:49:09 AM
GMAN, I wish I knew for sure. However, if you have been reading my posts in this thread, you would know that my prime suspect is Kazakhstan and that with the possibility of Moscow on the far end(as the lead-in to Frankfurt), a series of flights conforming to the expected timing of the race and going that way is the #1 choice of out several hundred for the route actually used by AR13. I have a lot of flight information showing TransAlantic Airways as the primary carrier inside Kazahstan, but that cannot be true unless they acquired Air Astana, the current Kazakh national airline. So I will be using the KC code for Air Astana a lot here in spite of the fact that the flight information source listed them as TransAtlantic (which is really of the Gambias, so what the heck would they be doing in Kazakhstsan? The flight pattern shown could be reversed between Almaty and Astana(this would benefit flights to Moscow but minimize flights from TSE to ALA, so there are tradeoffs), but the main reason I did not do that is inefficiency. With a race against the clock to reach Portland by May 14, it is critical that hours not be lost backtracking.

May 8, leg 7
KC954 0705 1030 DXB ALA, then tasks in Alamaty

May 9, leg 8
choice of 4 flights ALA TSE(Astana):
KC851 0605 0800
KC617 0940 1125
KC951 1225 1405
KC953 1610 1755
following arrival in Astana there will be tasks

May 10, leg 9
KC204 0625 0700 TSE DME (Moscow-domodedovo)
I haven't a clue on where team would go in the Mosocw area since many of the good ones have been used by previous Amazing Race visits, but tasks would obviously be done

May 11, leg 10
LH3189 0705 0825 DME FRA
Once arrived in Frankfurt there will be several cities wiithin 2 hours (Cologne, Koblen, Mainz, Mannheim, Baden Baden, Heidleberg); my personal favorite is Heidleberg but there was and probably is a large U.S. army base there and so that would not be a particularly good choice. Baden Baden is refined, elegant and exclusive, with probably more "cover".

May 12
tasks continue in Germany; teams enter a 36 hour pitstop

May 13
Germany piststop continued

May 14
LH468 0945 1120 FRA PDX, then tasks until FINISH LINE

I had separately listed several major cities which have early morning flights that can connect with LH468 in Frankfurt. They include Copenhagen, Vienna, and Rome. Any of these could have been the city from which the jump to Frankfurt occurs, but I like Moscow best because I think AR13 planners wanted to stay out of major tourist flows.



Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on May 15, 2008, 03:35:36 PM
I extended the above analysis quite a bit further once I realized that any major cities west of Moscow and east of Frankfurt and Amsterdam have the potential to send flights into FRA or AMS to connect with LN468 or NW91 to Portland. There are a lot of such cities as you will see. There were only two cities (medium-sized) that I tried and did not find such connecting-into flights. the other places and flights are:

Kiev IEV FRA 0535 0815 LH3235
Talinn TLL AMS 0715 0855 KL1326
Riga RIX AMS 0555 0725 NW8840
Bucharest OTP FRA 0610 0745 LH3417
Budapest BUD FRA 0645 0825 LH3449
Athens ATH FRA 0605 0805 LH3385
Ankara ESB FRA 0350 0620 LH2117
Istanbul IST AMS 0535 0805 NW8510
              IST FRA 0550 0750 LH3345
Sofia SOF FRA 0610 0735 LH3359
Helsinki HEL FRA 0640 0810 LH3109
Munich MUC AMS 0650 0825 NW8480
            MUC FRA 0700 0845 LH963
Milan Linate LIN FRA 0725 0845 LH3959
         Malpensa MXP FRA 0650 0815 LH3593
Zurich ZRH FRA 0700 0755 LH5051
          ZRH AMS 0655 0840 NW8582
Barcelona BCN AMS 0600 0815 NW8423
Berlin Tegel TXL FRA 0725 0835 LH173
                   TXL AMS 0600 0820 NW8376
Oslo OSL FRA 0645 0845 LH3137
        OSL AMS 0610 0820 NW8620

So there it is.

Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: georgiapeach on May 15, 2008, 03:46:23 PM
WOW... have to say that I would be pretty happy with any of them!  Thanks, apskip!
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: puddin on May 15, 2008, 03:48:37 PM
WOW... have to say that I would be pretty happy with any of them!  Thanks, apskip!
Time to hit Picasa :lol:  :groan:
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on May 15, 2008, 04:09:22 PM
The thing that I realized after completing this exercise is that the international airlines totally support and utilize the hub-and-spoke system. Frankfurt and Amsterdam are the hubs for travel to Portland and all the rest of these cities are the spokes feeding flights in earlier enought every morning to connect with the nonstop international flights. Mid-morning is when not just Portland but I expect flights to New York, Boston, Washington, Charlotte, Atlanta, Orlando, Miami, Detroit, Chicago, Houston, Dallas/Ft. Worth, maybe San Antonio, Minneapolis, Denver, Las Vegas, Salt Lake City, San Diego, Los Angeles, San Francisco, and Seattle push off. Passengers on those flights have been collected from most of the major cities of Europe. It's really something special to see one small part of it in operation.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Chateau d If on May 17, 2008, 05:17:35 PM
I've been working on the timing for our Bolivian leg.  We have several pieces of evidence to accommodate.  Here are the terms:

1)  A Canadian ex-patriot saw production working around wooden bikes and a U-Turn sign in La Paz, Bolivia.  She wrote that it was on the day she took possession of her La Paz apartment which turns out to be located opposite El Monticulo.  And she had previously written on April 25th that the move-in was expected to be "on Tuesday".  That would be April 29th.  This date will conflict another piece of evidence so be prepared to allow it to adjust.
2)  A traveler spotted Phil at the airport of Santa Cruz, Bolivia.  The sighting was in the range 9 am to 12:45 pm.   :tup:
3)  A traveler spotted several teams at the Santiago airport on April 30th.  He has estimated that they arrived in two bunches between 4 and 6 pm.   :tup:
4)  On April 29th, the only flights into Santa Cruz prior to Phil getting spotted were from La Paz and Cochabamba (I say Cochabamba when I hit my thumb with my hammer!).  And, for the time period involved, there were no flights into Cochbamba other than La Paz.   :duno:

A Difficult Conclusion:
Phil was not on his way to La Paz on April 29th.  He must have arrived from La Paz.  So the Bolivian leg had been completed and his mat duties there were done.  So the Canadian lady saw the U-turn and the wooden bikes in La Paz on the day before:  April 28th.

With that in mind we can figure out the likely flights that teams used to get to Santiago on April 30th.  Here is what I found for the two waves or groups that reached Santiago:

Wave 1:
Fly Aerosur 210 leaving La Paz at 8:30 am and arriving in Santa Cruz at 9:30 am
Continue on Aerosur 210 leaving Santa Cruz at 10:45 am and arriving in Buenos Aires at 2:30 pm
Fly Air Canada 93 leaving Buenos Aires at 4:00 pm and arriving in Santiago at 5:20 pm
As a potential bonus, if they arrived early enough in Buenos Aires, they could fly Aerolineas Argentinas 1288 leaving Buenos Aires at 2:45 pm and arriving in Santiago at 4:00 pm.   :jam:

Wave 2:
Fly Lan Airlines 965 leaving La Paz at 12:45 pm and arriving in Iquique at 1:50 pm
Continue with Lan Airlines 965 leaving Iquique at 3:15 pm and arriving in Santiago at 5:25 pm


ETA:  I just noticed that Wave 1 is equal to Neobie's 'pointless' flight for Phil. (http://forum.realityfanforum.com/index.php/topic,15356.msg301225.html#msg301225)   :bow: Well, at least my Wave 2 is new.   :lol:
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: puddin on May 17, 2008, 06:06:23 PM
 Cochabamba :elvis: Chateau  :jam:

wishful thinking that the missing SA leg is in Sucre, this is the place that I saw on the Science Channel? a few weeks ago and has amazing Dinosaur fossils.

The city of Sucre is also known as the City of Four Names, being those names La Plata, Charcas, Ciudad Blanca (White City), and Sucre. On December 13, 1991 UNESCO declared the Historic City of Sucre a "World Heritage Site" in recognition of its rich history and its wealth of colonial architecture

(http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc494/AllAboutTAR/index-45.jpg)
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on May 18, 2008, 01:41:34 PM
I've been working on the timing for our Bolivian leg.  We have several pieces of evidence to accommodate.  Here are the terms:

1)  A Canadian ex-patriot saw production working around wooden bikes and a U-Turn sign in La Paz, Bolivia.  She wrote that it was on the day she took possession of her La Paz apartment which turns out to be located opposite El Monticulo.  And she had previously written on April 25th that the move-in was expected to be "on Tuesday".  That would be April 29th.  This date will conflict another piece of evidence so be prepared to allow it to adjust.
2)  A traveler spotted Phil at the airport of Santa Cruz, Bolivia.  The sighting was in the range 9 am to 12:45 pm.   :tup:
3)  A traveler spotted several teams at the Santiago airport on April 30th.  He has estimated that they arrived in two bunches between 4 and 6 pm.   :tup:
4)  On April 29th, the only flights into Santa Cruz prior to Phil getting spotted were from La Paz and Cochabamba (I say Cochabamba when I hit my thumb with my hammer!).  And, for the time period involved, there were no flights into Cochbamba other than La Paz.   :duno:

A Difficult Conclusion:
Phil was not on his way to La Paz on April 29th.  He must have arrived from La Paz.  So the Bolivian leg had been completed and his mat duties there were done.  So the Canadian lady saw the U-turn and the wooden bikes in La Paz on the day before:  April 28th.

With that in mind we can figure out the likely flights that teams used to get to Santiago on April 30th.  Here is what I found for the two waves or groups that reached Santiago:

Wave 1:
Fly Aerosur 210 leaving La Paz at 8:30 am and arriving in Santa Cruz at 9:30 am
Continue on Aerosur 210 leaving Santa Cruz at 10:45 am and arriving in Buenos Aires at 2:30 pm
Fly Air Canada 93 leaving Buenos Aires at 4:00 pm and arriving in Santiago at 5:20 pm
As a potential bonus, if they arrived early enough in Buenos Aires, they could fly Aerolineas Argentinas 1288 leaving Buenos Aires at 2:45 pm and arriving in Santiago at 4:00 pm.   :jam:

Wave 2:
Fly Lan Airlines 965 leaving La Paz at 12:45 pm and arriving in Iquique at 1:50 pm
Continue with Lan Airlines 965 leaving Iquique at 3:15 pm and arriving in Santiago at 5:25 pm


ETA:  I just noticed that Wave 1 is equal to Neobie's 'pointless' flight for Phil. (http://forum.realityfanforum.com/index.php/topic,15356.msg301225.html#msg301225)   :bow: Well, at least my Wave 2 is new.   :lol:

Needless to say, I agree with your above analysis. In fact it looks a lot like this, which I cited on May 12 on another thread(Spoilers):

I believe that a sighting of Phil midday on April 29 at VVI was making the connection between either of the 2 nonstop flights from LPB into VVI that morning and LA967 departing from VVI at 1205 to SCL with stop in Iquique. If it is to LPB, then Phil could not do a mat in LaPaz, turn around, and get a flight(actually the same one on April 30) that will arrive SCL prior to 1725 on 4/30.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Chateau d If on May 18, 2008, 02:19:56 PM
Quote
If it is to LPB, then Phil could not do a mat in LaPaz, turn around, and get a flight(actually the same one on April 30) that will arrive SCL prior to 1725 on 4/30.


See, you missed the point.  Phil could have flown from VVI to La Paz and done mat duties on the afternoon of April 29th.  And from there he could take flights from La Paz to get to Santiago that will arrive prior to 1725 on 4/30.  Here is how that could have happened:

Fly Aerosur 126 leaving Santa Cruz at 12:30 pm and arriving in La Paz at 1:30 pm.
Phil performs mat duties 3 pm until next morning if needed.  Then on April 30th:
Fly Lan Airlines 965 leaving La Paz at 12:45 pm and arriving in Iquique at 1:50 pm
Continue with Lan Airlines 965 leaving Iquique at 3:15 pm and arriving in Santiago at 5:25 pm

I'm not saying this is what happened.  My point is that, in order to establish that it did not happen we had to show that Phil could not have arrived at Santa Cruz from any place other than La Paz. 

Having established that we get to rule out April 29th as the day that teams performed tasks in La Paz.

Your prior post expressed this as your belief.   But without the correct reasoning because, as shown above, Phil could have flown from VVI to La Paz and done mat duties on the afternoon of April 29th. 
Quote
I believe that a sighting of Phil midday on April 29 at VVI was making the connection between either of the 2 nonstop flights from LPB into VVI that morning and LA967 departing from VVI at 1205 to SCL with stop in Iquique.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on May 22, 2008, 02:12:19 PM
TIMETABLE through arrival at Dubai(for leg there or transit elsewhere) with further updates on Auckland through Siem Reap
 
AR13 TIMETABLE

Depending on when they arrive at LAX, teams have choices of 3 flight combinations to Sao Paulo:

4/22, leg 1
LAX DFW AA2446 1250 1740 connecting in Dallas with DFW GRU AA963 1945 0750+1 (Note: first to arrive if on schedule)

LAX MIA AA252 1355 2142 connecting in Miami with MIA GRU 2330 0830+1 (Note: second to arrive if on schedule)

LAX GRU UA843 1405 1005+1 with a stop in ORD from 2005 to 2132 (Note: third and last to arrive)

4/23
This means that the tasks in Sao Paulo will have to take until after noon at the very least and that with a 12 hour pitstop it will be after midnight when teams are released.

4/24, leg 2
There are numerous 2 1/4 hour nonstop flights from Sao Paulo to Salvador. However, choices are limited to the first 2 daily by virtue of the sighting of teams descending the exterior of the elevator just after 9am on 4/24. Those who were sighted could only be on this flight:

G3 1816 GRU SSA 0410 0625

Later teams could be on G31982 GRU SSA 0735 0950, but they will be quite a bit later to the elevator.

4/25 - 4/28, leg 3
We do not know where teams go next. It could be Fortaleza, Recife, Manaus, Brasilia, LaPaz, Asuncion or elsewhere.

4/27 leg 4
Teams arrive in LaPaz Bolivia from by air.

4/28
Teams do tasks in Bolivia and then have a pitstop in the LaPaz area.

4/29 start of leg 5
Teams fly from Santa Cruz to Santiago. Choices are:
LAN967 VVI SCL 1205 1725
LAN967 VVI IQT 1205 1355  LAN365 IQT SCL 1920 2230
TA34     VVI LIM 0805 0900  TA33     LIM SCL  2100 0205+1

4/30
It is highly highly likely that there is a REST DAY in the Santiago area.
What we appear to be sure of is that teams end up at Santiago Chile airport on this evening.

LAN801 2245 0355+2 SCL AKL

5/2
Teams do tasks somewhere on the North Island of New Zealand from early morning until late evening when a pitstop starts.

5/3 and 5/4, leg 6
Teams return to Auckland International Airport and fly out in multiple bunches from noon until midnight. Choices of routes from AKL to REP (Siem Reap) are:

AKL BKK TG990 1315 2100, connecting with BKK REP PG903 0800 0900

AKL SYD 1245 1415 NZ119  or  1325 1450 QF190  or 1550 1715 EK419 (note: since it is rumored that an Emirates flight was used, EK419 is thee most likely of the 3)
these connect in Sydney to get SYD BKK with connection on one of these:
1550 2215 TG996
1635 2255 QF301
1700 2315 QF1

The AKL BNE route has several choices:
QF126 1435 1625
NZ739 1530 1720
EK433 1655 1835 this then continues on to Singapore with BNE SIN EK433 2045 0150+1 and then SIN REP 3K595 0600 0700

The BNE BKK route has TG992 2359 0559+1. this would be followed by  BKK REP PG903 0800 0900

Then BNE SIN has a flight after EK433 - SQ2246 2345 0545+1, but it is not in time to connect with 3K595 so teams doing thhis must wait for SIN REP MI616 1025 1135.
Other flights BNE SIN are SQ246 2345 0545. This would connect with 3K595.

There are no flights BKK REP until the morning of May 4. May 4 reports of PG503 0800 0900 not having any teams sighted may be inaccurate, as it is the only flight that could get teams there from Bangkok by late morning since there was no possibility of them leaving Auckland in the afternoon and reaching Bangkok before 7pm.

Another route is AKL MEL 1300 1500 NZ2725  or 1615 1815 QF134
Those connect with MEL BKK 1605 2235 TG982 or
MEL SIN 1920 0100 EK405, which requires a connection to Bangkok or waiting until MI616 SIN REP 1025 1135.
That connection on May 4 is either TG402 SIN BKK 0740 0900 or SQ970 0845 1010. Then a connection to PG905 BKK REP 1100 1220 is the next one possible.

One late team is probably on AKL SIN 2355 0645 SQ282 connecting there with SQ970 and PG905 shown above to avoid waiting for MI633.

5/4 continued
tasks and start of 12 hour pitstop in Siem Reap area

5/5, start of leg 7
Siem Reap to Bangkok airport
PG904 REP BKK 0950 1045 .

Choice of this nonstop flights from BKK to DEL:
IC854 BKK DEL 1330 1615

arrival into downtown Delhi would be around 1800.

It looks like the alternate flight connection for any lagging teams is:

PG906 1250 1400 REP BKK
TG315 1745 2045 BKK DEL

5/6
Delhi pitstop

5/7, start of leg 8
Delhi to Dubai nonstop flights:
AI9897 DEL DXB 0745 0945
AI9895 DEL DXB 2000 2155
AI747 DEL DXB 2055 2245

However, some close connections cannot be ruled out:
DEL DOH QR233 0500 0620  connecting to  DOH DXB QR100 0755 1000
DEL AUH 9W582   2100 2335 connecting to AUH DXB 9W7485 0115 0245 (Neobie says this is a bus; I believe him)

5/8 - 5/13  TO BE DETERMINED, with finish of leg 8 plus legs 9 and 10 having to be somewhere

5/14 leg 11, the FINISH LINE in The Rose City, Portland Oregon

 
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Chateau d If on May 22, 2008, 05:51:28 PM
Apskip, I see some information in your timeline that is inconsistent with the spoilers we know about.  For example, I hope we don't forget that Teams may actually go to La Paz to ride the wooden bikes that were seen next to the "U-Turn" sign with red and yellow flags.

Also, I note that you have arranged flights with the pretext that 'these are the choices' when there are additional valid flights that accomplish the same thing.  For example, if Teams make this choice of flights from Auckland to Siem Reap they will actually be scheduled to arrive ahead of any of the 'choices' you laid out:

Fly Emirates 433 leaving Auckland on May 3rd at 4:55 pm and arriving in Brisbane at 6:35 pm
Continue with Emirates 433 leaving Brisbane on May 3rd at 8:05 pm and arriving in Singapore at 1:50 am
Fly Jetstar Asia 595 leaving Singapore on May 4th at 6:00 am and arriving in Siem Reap at 7:05 am.

Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on May 22, 2008, 08:52:52 PM
Here is a logical set of flights for Phil Keoghan leaving Auckland(without any of the AR13 teams) around 0500 SaturdayMay 3:

AJK SYD LAN801 0525 0705
SYD BKK TG994 1000 1625
BKK REP PG907 1740 1900
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on May 27, 2008, 06:14:21 PM
Date of original post was May 15. this post has been altered to the below:

May 8, leg 8
KC954 0705 1030 DXB ALA, then tasks in Alamaty(one of several connect points from Dubai to Moscow, not the one I consider to have the highest probability.Next most probable would be Astana, another large city in Kazakhstan.
tasks in the afternoon and evening, followed by start of 36 hour pitstop

May 9
36 hour pitstop in Almaty

May 9, leg 9
choice of 4 flights ALA TSE(Astana):
KC851 0605 0800
KC617 0940 1125
KC951 1225 1405
KC953 1610 1755
following arrival in Astana there will be tasks

May 10 Astana tasks and start of pitstop

May 11, leg 10
KC204 0625 0700 TSE DME (Moscow-domodedovo)
I haven't a clue on where team would go in the Mosocw area since many of the good ones have been used by previous Amazing Race visits, but tasks would obviously be done

May 12 tasks in Moscow completed by early afternoon followed by 36 hour pistop

May 13 pitstop

May 14 leg 11
LH3189 0705 0825 DME FRA

LH468 0945 1120 FRA PDX, then tasks until FINISH LINE

This segment of the total Timeline was previously the subject of speculation and still is. Nothing is really known for absolute sure yet. However, there are several things that appear likely:

1. The knowledge of Moscow (per Peach, which is as good as getting money from a bank) eliminates many branches on the total tree of possiblities from Dubai May 7 through to Frankfurt May 14.
2. First and foremost is the high probability that the flight FRA PDX was preceded on the same morning by the flight DME(Moscow) FRA. This makes it unlikely that there are any tasks in Germany.
3. That makes Moscow leg 10 of a total 11.
4. Next we have to find a connection between Dubai and Moscow. There are only so many possiblitiies, those for which flights out of Dubai were in a west(but not too far), northwest, or north direction. Those include Halsinki, Talinn, Riga, Vilnius, Istanbul, Baku, Tashkent, Almaty, and Astana. The ones that have flights from Dubai are:

Baku 0110  J2016
Tashkent 1230 HY334
Kiev 1930 P5374
Almaty 0705 KC954
Istanbul 0400 SQ490
Istanbul 1165 0745
Istanbul 1430 EK121
This table indicates that the highest probability destination should be Istanbul, but with that City having prior Amazing Races stop I doubt that it happened in AR13.

5. The one that fits best is Almaty, Kazakhstan. Now in addition to Almaty Kazakhstan has Astana, another large city with major international flights, including to Moscow. The amount of time between Dubai and Moscow has to be filled with exactly 2 legs and I predict that they will both be in the same country. I think Kazakhstan will be that country, as no other country fits the 2-stops requirement combined with flights to Moscow quite as well.

6. Peach, I agree that Dubai was only a transit point. I do not think teams stayed there for tasks and pitstop.


Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Mrs Shrek on May 28, 2008, 02:01:19 AM
So if Kazakhstan was presumed to be the only country visited between the sighting thru Dubai in transit (assumed) and Moscow, then have we now located all the countries that we believe they visit this time?

And where do the NEL's usually fit in to the episodes?
Only speculation, but I was wondering if a speed bump could be what delayed the African American team leaving NZ, or is that too early for a NEL?
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: georgiapeach on May 28, 2008, 02:17:06 AM
Not sure Mrs Shrek?

We are still missing prob 2 legs in South America and we can't be 100% sure that they were still in either Brazil or Bolivia...

And I would adore Kazakhstan to be right, but readers here need to be aware that this is still speculation, although educated spec based on apskip's detailed flight information... 
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on May 28, 2008, 07:58:16 AM

And where do the NEL's usually fit in to the episodes?
Only speculation, but I was wondering if a speed bump could be what delayed the African American team leaving NZ, or is that too early for a NEL?

Mrs. Shrek, there should be no more than two TBCs/NELS in AR13 if it is an 11 episode race as expected. The logic behind this is fairly simple:
1. there are 8 elimination points to get 11 teams down to the Final 3.
2. there is one final episode
3. That leaves only 2 out of the expected 11 episodes to be a TBC or NEL.

Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Chateau d If on May 28, 2008, 12:43:39 PM
Do we really know for sure that there are 11 episodes?  If so, where is the evidence?
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on May 28, 2008, 01:08:02 PM
Of course we don't "know" that there will be 11 episodes. However, the known timing from the April 22 to May 14 was a total of 22 to 23 days(depending on how you count the first and last day). The most recent "evidence " is AR12 taking only 21 days to do 11 episodes, but on slightly shorter route staying in the northern hemisphere exclusively.

Chateau, feel free to obtain the whole truth. Knock yourself out or wait until TV Guide or CBS lets us know. In the interim, I am comfortable assuming that it is 11 epsiodes. The only questions right now that could make it a different number are having a different number than one leg between Salvador and Bolivia, one fewer leg (than 2) between Dubai and Moscow, having a leg in Dubai, or having a leg in the Frankfurt area. All of those are improbable but not impossible.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Mrs Shrek on May 28, 2008, 06:17:03 PM
Do we really know for sure that there are 11 episodes?  If so, where is the evidence?

Chateau: I do know that I read somewhere online that it was going to be an 11 episode race, but I have sifted thru so many sites of various levels of dubiousness/believability/idle speculation, and I can't find the source again, so I can't provide the link right now, or even give an indication on how reliable the report was. Sorry. I know I felt at the time that it was probably truth rather than just spec, but that of course means nothing without evidence.

Georgia Peach: Sorry for not making it clear my previous post was indeed "Just Speculation" (as is this one) :-[ Thanks for highlighting that.

Askip: I agree there are most probably just 2 NELs/TBCs. They didn't have any TBC legs in Race 12 did they? - only the NELs for the Goths and the Hippies. I don't really know the stats for previous races like in what leg the NELs/TBCs arose. I was just wondering if a NEL in NZ would fit into the timeline as it stands at present, with the number of Racers spotted in Cambodia.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: puddin on May 28, 2008, 06:49:39 PM
I think this post is why some of us are thinking 11 episodes as well or it could be 11 teams or 11 something else or 11 teams 11 legs  :lol:  ..~

more from the wweek.com site in comments  (http://wweek.com/wwire/?p=11881). I suppose 13 - 1111 means 11 episodes *sigh*

Underwear Guy  writes on May 14th, 2008 4:48pm
**SPOILER**

I followed the girls, and the camera... I would bet money this was a decoy, Sammyk you nailed it. The girls got into a WRP van near the Voodoo Doughnuts, the were asking people along the way where Voodoo was... YET NO CLUE was to be found there. They all got into a van and drove off.

Beside, the International flight schedule would not have placed them in downtown.

What's confirmed is TAR is in down! The producers clip boards were in view. We could read 13 - 1111 on the sheet. This is RACE 13.

Tomorrow morning is the likely timing of the finish. Early am, no one around... lets guess Timberline, the Falls, Washington Park, no not the Tram.
 
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on May 28, 2008, 07:42:00 PM
Mrs. Shrek, if the Auckland area time on May 2/3 had been a TBC, all teams would have been on their way before midnight on May 2. However, a NEL is just the same as a regular leg except for not having a team elimination. If there are 2 NELs for AR13, then they could fall anywhere including New Zealand. it really doesn't matter where they are.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Chateau d If on May 28, 2008, 09:49:43 PM
Thanks Puddin, that's the kind of stuff that counts.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on May 29, 2008, 07:11:32 AM
This might be a good time to remind CHATEAU who pointed out the connection first:

 Re: Speculation on Spoilers
« Reply #130 on: May 15, 2008, 08:51:35 AM » Quote Modify 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

....
By the way, it looks to me that the numbering 13-1111 confirms the fact that there were 11 episodes in AR13.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Chateau d If on May 29, 2008, 01:39:29 PM
Actually, Apskip, your post on May 15th where you say

Quote
By the way, it looks to me that the numbering 13-1111 confirms the fact that there were 11 episodes in AR13.

came after Puddin's post on May 14th where she says

Quote
What's confirmed is TAR is in down! The producers clip boards were in view. We could read 13 - 1111 on the sheet. This is RACE 13.

If it is not obvious to you already I should point out that when she bolded the bit about numbering it means she is saying that the production activies that day were for the 11th episode.  So your statement made the next day was not original and basically redundant.


Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on June 07, 2008, 07:12:58 AM
Date of original post was May 15. This post takes into account new information from Schwarzmoor:

May 8, leg 8
KC954 0705 1030 DXB ALA, then tasks in Alamaty(one of several connect points from Dubai to Moscow, not the one I consider to have the highest probability.Next most probable would be Astana, another large city in Kazakhstan.
tasks in the afternoon and evening, followed by start of 36 hour pitstop. This is speculative.

May 9
36 hour pitstop in Almaty

May 10, leg 9
choice of 2 flights ALA Moscow:
ALA DME KC206 0630 0925
ALA SVO KC256 1650 1955
start tasks in Moscow

May 11,
finish tasks and start pitstop in Moscow

May 12 Moscow to Oporto Portugal
DME VIE OS601 0550 0635 followed by a 30 minute connection to
VIE FRA OS121 0705 0840 and
FRA OPO TP6680 0925 1100  or  LH4553 1425 1600  or  TP6684 2155 2300
start and complete tasks in Oporto; pitstop

May 13
OPO LIS TP653 1730 1825
LIS FRA TP588 1910 2315
Note: this is the latest reasonable flight combinationto get to FRA before LH468 below

May 14, leg 11
0945 1120 LH468 FRA PDX, then tasks until FINISH LINE

This segment of the total Timeline was previously the subject of speculation and still is. Nothing is really known for absolute sure yet. However, there are several things that appear likely:

1. Next we have to find a connection between Dubai and Moscow. There are only so many possiblitiies, those for which flights out of Dubai were in a west(but not too far), northwest, or north direction. Those include Halsinki, Talinn, Riga, Vilnius, Istanbul, Baku, Tashkent, Almaty, and Astana. The ones that have flights from Dubai are:

Baku 0110  J2016
Tashkent 1230 HY334
Kiev 1930 P5374
Almaty 0705 KC954
Istanbul 0400 SQ490
Istanbul 1165 0745
Istanbul 1430 EK121
This table indicates that the highest probability destination should be Istanbul, but with that City having prior Amazing Races stop I doubt that it happened in AR13.

5. The one that fits best is Almaty, Kazakhstan. Now in addition to Almaty Kazakhstan has Astana, another large city with major international flights, including to Moscow. The amount of time between Dubai and Moscow has to be filled with exactly 1 leg. I think Kazakhstan will be that country, but who knows.

6. Dubai appears to have been only a transit point. I do not think teams stayed there for tasks and pitstop.


Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on June 07, 2008, 09:49:05 AM
Apskip, I don't think there was a Porto in there...
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on June 07, 2008, 10:33:20 AM
Since whoever posted Porto before I wrote my post on SPOILERS thread has subsequently deleted it, it appears that Porto is highly speculative. Based on the airplane schedule from Porto to Frankfurt requiring teams to leave on or before 530pm May 13 to catch a 945am flight form Frankfurt to Portland May 14, Porto does not make optimum sense although it certainly could be the location.

One thing is sure. With a Moscow sighting on May 10 and LH486 on May 14, there has to be one stop between Moscow and Frankfurt to leg 10 in between those dates.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on June 09, 2008, 10:20:51 PM
Life can be dull when there are no airline schedules to decipher. Here is what could have happened beteen Salvador and Bolivia:

April 25 Salvador to Forteleza
flight possibiities SSA to FOR include:
TAM8003 1130 1310
TAM 3366 0230 0415
TAM 3894 1900 2210
SSA REC TAM 3152 2150 2300 connecting with REC FOR TAM 3158 2340 0055

April 26
tasks and pitstop in Fortaleza

April 27 Fortaleza to Bolivia via Sao Paulo

TAM 3301 FOR GRU 1715 2015
TAM 3302 FOR GRU 1330 1830
TAM 3717 FOR GRU 1410 1

Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on June 10, 2008, 12:11:07 AM
Well, since we've got from the 25th to the 29th of April to play with for Leg Two, could it be possible that teams travelled on land through to Fortaleza? It's a twenty-hour bus ride (not unheard of on TAR), and flights would allow production to gain on the teams...

Or is Fortaleza simply a connection point (for production) for somewhere in the jungle? (This is presuming that the chainsaw is for the use of production to clear unforeseen obstacles, and not the use of the teams. Having a logging task in the Amazon would be sacrilegous in this age of global warming and what not!)
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: georgiapeach on June 10, 2008, 12:21:24 AM
But aren't we in La Paz by the 27th? ???

But I'm with you--no chain saws please! Production only... 
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on June 10, 2008, 12:31:45 AM
If they didn't change plans, the couple in Bolivia would have seen the setting up of tasks on a Tuesday (the 29th), when they moved into their new apartment.

I think the shifting of the La Paz sighting forward is an attempt to fit in the Phil sighting in Santa Cruz, but it would probably be more prudent to hold out for more evidence before insisting its absolute accuracy...

What do you guys think?
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: georgiapeach on June 10, 2008, 12:39:31 AM
Oh my bad...Tuesday was the 29th...

I do remember Chateau saying something about how it worked better if they actually got in on the 28th...but you are right, I don't think we have any concrete evidence for that--but I'll leave this to you spreadsheet guys!

How dare those archeologists go traipsing off to non-Internet connected lands and not be able to be reached ! :lol:
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on June 10, 2008, 09:38:27 AM
Well, since we've got from the 25th to the 29th of April to play with for Leg Two, could it be possible that teams travelled on land through to Fortaleza? It's a twenty-hour bus ride (not unheard of on TAR), and flights would allow production to gain on the teams...

Or is Fortaleza simply a connection point (for production) for somewhere in the jungle? (This is presuming that the chainsaw is for the use of production to clear unforeseen obstacles, and not the use of the teams. Having a logging task in the Amazon would be sacrilegous in this age of global warming and what not!)

Politely, Neobie, there is NO WAY that AR13 teams took a 20 hour bus from Salvador to Forteleza. Why would they do that with time at a premium and the flights as short as 100 minutes? Production gains on the teams by leaving before teams are released from the pitstop. They don't need a boondoggle bus ride for the teams while they fly to get ahead. It's just basic scheduling which the WRP production crew is clearly excellent at.

On your "What do you guys think?", I think that we haven't got any clarity for Bolivia yet and it's too early to call it one way or the other.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on June 10, 2008, 09:43:17 AM
Just wondering... They put in those loooong rides to drive the racers crazy!

Flo in Vietnam (80min vs 24h), Lucknow to Johdpur, South Carolina to Alabama...
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Chateau d If on June 10, 2008, 10:04:32 AM
Yes, I think TAR does like to have teams take the slow route.  There are lots of valid reasons to do that.  And they do it often.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on June 22, 2008, 04:33:48 AM
Looks like Darren Bunkley could really just be connecting through Lisbon!

Darren found his way to Siem Reap after Lisbon. If he was headed there directly, here's the fastest combination I could find, which happens to include the TP156 he was on (33 hours of economy through four countries in three days! Aye-yi-yi!):

Salvador, Brazil to Lisbon, Portugal
TP156: Friday 5.45pm to Saturday 5.45am
Lisbon, Portugal to Paris, France
AF2125: Saturday 8.20am to 11.50am
Paris, France to Bangkok, Thailand
TG931: Saturday 1.45pm to Sunday 6.00am
Bangkok, Thailand to Siem Reap, Cambodia
PG903: Sunday 8.00am to 9.00am

Salvador has few other non-stop flights to Europe (most going through Sao Paulo or Rio first), and even if he left earlier, on Friday morning, to catch the LAN flight from Santiago to Auckland, by Sunday 9am he'd make it to Sydney at best.

Of course, this transit could actually make TPTB consider putting Sequesterville in Portugal, and Darren could easily complete the Lisbon-Paris-Bangkok-Siem Reap legs on a later day! (Fortaleza also has non-stop flights to Lisbon.)
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on July 03, 2008, 08:03:10 AM
Let's start with some speculation. There is a major issue in figuring out where a previously not identified leg is. This arises because prior timelines have marked the legs up through leg 6 in Delhi. Since release from Delhi cannot be before May 7, there is not enough time left for teams to complete two full legs and fly to Moscow arriving midday May 12(which they have to do to meet the pitstop timing assumptions). So here are 3 alternatives to fix that:

1. Even though I say it is not enough time, WRP plans 3 legs between Delhi and Moscow.
2. There was a second leg in Cambodia involving a TBC, then later a pitstop.
3. There was a TBC leg in Santiago in spite of the piece of evidence that 1304 ends in Auckland.

Of these 3, I like the 2 legs in Cambodia best. Since teams apparently do not depart until the morning of May 6, they have about 48 hours to do so plus get in a TBC and later pitstop. I am changing this Timeline to reflect that.

Here is the updated Timetable:

AR13 TIMELINE

Depending on when they arrive at LAX, teams have choices of 3 flight combinations to Sao Paulo:

4/22, leg 1
LAX DFW AA2446 1250 1740 connecting in Dallas with DFW GRU AA963 1945 0750+1 (Note: first to arrive if on schedule)

LAX MIA AA252 1355 2142 connecting in Miami with MIA GRU 2330 0830+1 (Note: second to arrive if on schedule)

LAX GRU UA843 1405 1005+1 with a stop in ORD from 2005 to 2132 (Note: third and last to arrive)

4/23  teams go from GRU to SSA(Salvador) but it is unclear how many fly nonstop and how many connect through Rio de Janeiro. There are numerous 2 1/4 hour nonstops from GRU to SSA.
 

4/24  We know the elevator task in Salvador is this morning. If teams are lagging, they may have to catch:

G3 1816 GRU SSA 0410 0625  or  G31982 GRU SSA 0735 0950

4/25 leg 2,  choices of flights from Salvador to Fortaleza are:
SSA FOR  JJ8003 1130 1310
SSA FOR G31642 0645 0945
SSA FOR G31260 1100 1350
SSA GRU JJ3171 0600 0830  connecting GRU with JJ3302  0930 1245

followed by tasks in Fortzaleza

4/26 Pitstop in Fortaleza

4/27 leg 3
Teams leave FOR and arrive in Bolivia by air. Whether it is to Santa Cruz or to LaPaz is not known at this time.

4/28
Teams do tasks in Bolivia and then have a pitstop in the LaPaz area.

4/29 start of leg 4
If teams fly from Santa Cruz to Santiago choices are:
LAN967 VVI SCL 1205 1725
LAN967 VVI IQT 1205 1355  LAN365 IQT SCL 1920 2230
TA34     VVI LIM 0805 0900  TA33     LIM SCL  2100 0205+1

If teams fly from LPB to SCL choices are:
LAN 965 LPB SCL through Iquique 1245 1745

Since we know that the pitstop was in LPB, teams could have flown out of there or flown to SantaCruz to connect with the flights there.

4/30
It is highly highly likely that there is a REST DAY in the Santiago area.
What we appear to be sure of is that teams end up at Santiago Chile airport on this evening.

LAN801 2245 0355+2 SCL AKL

5/2 leg 4
Teams do tasks somewhere on the North Island of New Zealand from early morning until late evening when a pitstop starts.

5/3 and 5/4, leg 5
Teams return to Auckland International Airport and fly out in multiple bunches from noon until midnight. Choices of routes from AKL to REP (Siem Reap) are:

AKL BKK TG990 1315 2100, connecting with BKK REP PG903 0800 0900

AKL SYD 1245 1415 NZ119  or  1325 1450 QF190  or 1550 1715 EK419 (note: since it is rumored that an Emirates flight was used, EK419 is thee most likely of the 3)
these connect in Sydney to get SYD BKK with connection on one of these:
1550 2215 TG996
1635 2255 QF301
1700 2315 QF1

The AKL BNE route has several choices:
QF126 1435 1625
NZ739 1530 1720
EK433 1655 1835 this then continues on to Singapore with BNE SIN EK433 2045 0150+1 and then SIN REP 3K595 0600 0700

The BNE BKK route has TG992 2359 0559+1. this would be followed by  BKK REP PG903 0800 0900

Then BNE SIN has a flight after EK433 - SQ2246 2345 0545+1, but it is not in time to connect with 3K595 so teams doing thhis must wait for SIN REP MI616 1025 1135.
Other flights BNE SIN are SQ246 2345 0545. This would connect with 3K595.

There are no flights BKK REP until the morning of May 4. May 4 reports of PG503 0800 0900 not having any teams sighted may be inaccurate, as it is the only flight that could get teams there from Bangkok by late morning since there was no possibility of them leaving Auckland in the afternoon and reaching Bangkok before 7pm.

Another route is AKL MEL 1300 1500 NZ2725  or 1615 1815 QF134
Those connect with MEL BKK 1605 2235 TG982 or
MEL SIN 1920 0100 EK405, which requires a connection to Bangkok or waiting until MI616 SIN REP 1025 1135.
That connection on May 4 is either TG402 SIN BKK 0740 0900 or SQ970 0845 1010. Then a connection to PG905 BKK REP 1100 1220 is the next one possible.

One late team is probably on AKL SIN 2355 0645 SQ282 connecting there with SQ970 and PG905 shown above to avoid waiting for MI633.

5/4 continued
tasks and then TBC in Siem Reap area, followed by more tasks

5/5, start of leg 6
tasks in Siem Reap area, then regular pitstop

5/6 start of leg 7
Siem Reap to Bangkok airport
PG904 REP BKK 0950 1045 .

Choice of this nonstop flights from BKK to DEL:
IC854 BKK DEL 1330 1615

arrival into downtown Delhi would be around 1800.

It looks like the alternate flight connection for any lagging teams is:

PG906 1250 1400 REP BKK
TG315 1745 2045 BKK DEL

5/7
Delhi pitstop

5/7 leg 8
Delhi to ?

5/9 leg 9
? to ?

5/10 tasks; extended 36 hour pitstop

5/11 continue leg 9 pitstop

5/12 leg 10, flight from TBD to Moscow arriving probably midday, followed by Moscow tasks

5/13 Moscow tasks, then afternoon start of pitstop

5/14 leg 11, the FINISH LINE in The Rose City, Portland Oregon
0705 0825 LH3189  DME FRA
0945 1120 LH468  FRA PDX, then tasks until FINISH LINE


 
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on August 20, 2008, 05:19:55 PM
It's time for a new updated timeline. Key new assumptions are that Delhi tasks will end on 5/7, making the release from the pitstop Thursday May 8, and that the missing pitstop is Astana, Kazakhstan. The Delhi day of the week is extremely significant because there is a nonstop flight  once per week flight from Delhi to Almaty, Kazakhstan but only on Saturday night. AR13 teams did not wait around for 2 days to get there more directly.

Here is the updated Timetable:

AR13 TIMELINE

Depending on when they arrive at LAX, teams have choices of 3 flight combinations to Salvador:

4/22, leg 1
LAX DFW AA2446 1250 1740 connecting in Dallas with DFW GRU AA963 1945 0750+1 connecting Sao Paulo with GRU SSA JJ3896 0830 1055 or JJ3174 1035 1250

LAX MIA AA252 1355 2142 connecting in Miami with MIA GRU 2330 0830+1 connecting Sao Paulo with GRU SSA JJ3174 1035 1250

LAX GRU UA843 1405 1005+1 with a stop in ORD from 2005 to 2132 connecting in Sao Paulo with GRU SSA JJ3154 1200 1425

There are other possiblities for the American flight from Miami to connect in Rio, but they can arrive no earlier than the later TAM Aereas Lineas flight into Salvador.

tasks in Salvador; then Hours of Operation

4/23 tasks in Salvador

4/24  We know the elevator task in Salvador is this morning. It will be followed soon after by a pitstop.

4/25 leg 2,  choices of flights from Salvador to Fortaleza are:
SSA FOR JJ3366 0230 0415
SSA FOR JJ3890 0330 0635
SSA FOR G31642 0645 0945
SSA FOR G31260 1100 1350
SSA FOR  JJ8003 1130 1310
followed by tasks in Fortzaleza

4/26 Pitstop in Fortaleza

4/27 leg 3
Teams leave FOR and arrive in Bolivia by air. Whether it is to Santa Cruz or to LaPaz is not known at this time.

4/28
Teams do tasks in Bolivia and then have a pitstop in the LaPaz area.

4/29 start of leg 4
If teams fly from Santa Cruz to Santiago choices are:
LAN967 VVI SCL 1205 1725
LAN967 VVI IQT 1205 1355  LAN365 IQT SCL 1920 2230
TA34     VVI LIM 0805 0900  TA33     LIM SCL  2100 0205+1

If teams fly from LPB to SCL choices are:
LAN 965 LPB SCL through Iquique 1245 1745

Since we know that the pitstop was in LPB, teams could have flown out of there or flown to SantaCruz to connect with the flights there.

4/30
It is highly highly likely that there is a REST DAY in the Santiago area.
What we appear to be sure of is that teams end up at Santiago Chile airport on this evening.

LAN801 2245 0355+2 SCL AKL

5/2 leg 4
Teams do tasks somewhere on the North Island of New Zealand from early morning until late evening when a pitstop starts.

5/3 and 5/4, leg 5
Teams return to Auckland International Airport and fly out in multiple bunches from noon until midnight. Choices of routes from AKL to REP (Siem Reap) are:

AKL BKK TG990 1315 2100, connecting with BKK REP PG903 0800 0900

AKL SYD 1245 1415 NZ119  or  1325 1450 QF190  or 1550 1715 EK419 (note: since it is rumored that an Emirates flight was used, EK419 is thee most likely of the 3)
these connect in Sydney to get SYD BKK with connection on one of these:
1550 2215 TG996
1635 2255 QF301
1700 2315 QF1

The AKL BNE route has several choices:
QF126 1435 1625
NZ739 1530 1720
EK433 1655 1835 this then continues on to Singapore with BNE SIN EK433 2045 0150+1 and then SIN REP 3K595 0600 0700

The BNE BKK route has TG992 2359 0559+1. this would be followed by  BKK REP PG903 0800 0900

Then BNE SIN has a flight after EK433 - SQ2246 2345 0545+1, but it is not in time to connect with 3K595 so teams doing thhis must wait for SIN REP MI616 1025 1135.
Other flights BNE SIN are SQ246 2345 0545. This would connect with 3K595.

There are no flights BKK REP until the morning of May 4. May 4 reports of PG503 0800 0900 not having any teams sighted may be inaccurate, as it is the only flight that could get teams there from Bangkok by late morning since there was no possibility of them leaving Auckland in the afternoon and reaching Bangkok before 7pm.

Another route is AKL MEL 1300 1500 NZ2725  or 1615 1815 QF134
Those connect with MEL BKK 1605 2235 TG982 or
MEL SIN 1920 0100 EK405, which requires a connection to Bangkok or waiting until MI616 SIN REP 1025 1135.
That connection on May 4 is either TG402 SIN BKK 0740 0900 or SQ970 0845 1010. Then a connection to PG905 BKK REP 1100 1220 is the next one possible.

One late team is probably on AKL SIN 2355 0645 SQ282 connecting there with SQ970 and PG905 shown above to avoid waiting for MI633.

5/4 continued
tasks and then TBC in Siem Reap area, followed by more tasks

5/5, start of leg 6
tasks in Siem Reap area, then regular pitstop

5/6 start of leg 7
Siem Reap to Bangkok airport
PG904 REP BKK 0950 1045 .

Choice of this nonstop flights from BKK to DEL:
IC854 BKK DEL 1330 1615

arrival into downtown Delhi would be around 1800.

It looks like the alternate flight connection for any lagging teams is:

PG906 1250 1400 REP BKK
TG315 1745 2045 BKK DEL

5/7
Delhi tasks and start of pitstop

5/8 leg 8 begins
Delhi to Almaty Kazakhstan - choice of 2 sets of connecting flights to Dubai:

AI9897 0745 0945 DEL DXB  nonstop  or
Qatar233 0500 0620 DEL DOH connecting in Doha to Qatar100 (bus) 0755 1000 DOH DBX

In Dubai, there is a connection to KC896 1120 1740 DBX ALA
Teams then have some time for tasks before running into an Hours of Operation limit.

5/9 Tasks take all day; then pitstop

5/10 leg 9 begins with choice of flights (not a long railroad trip) from Almaty to Astana:

KC751 0615 0810
KC851 0940 1125
KC813 1255 1440
KC818  1610 1755
KC878 1810 1955
KC855 1910 2055

followed by tasks in Astana area after arrival; pitstop (could be 24 hours)
NOTE that this leg is SPECULATION  at this point. It is the most logical possibilty, but there are many ways to get from Almaty to Moscow.

5/11 leg 10 begins; fly Astana to Moscow KC873 TSE SVO 2100 0220+1

5/12 Moscow tasks

5/13 Moscow tasks, then afternoon start of pitstop

5/14 leg 11, the FINISH LINE in The Rose City, Portland Oregon
0705 0825 LH3189  DME FRA
0945 1120 LH468  FRA PDX, then tasks until FINISH LINE


  
 
 
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Chateau d If on August 21, 2008, 12:55:42 AM
You've got some lousy Leg 2 flights to choose from:

Quote
4/25 leg 2,  choices of flights from Salvador to Fortaleza are:
SSA FOR  JJ8003 1130 1310
SSA FOR G31642 0645 0945
SSA FOR G31260 1100 1350
SSA GRU JJ3171 0600 0830  connecting GRU with JJ3302  0930 1245

followed by tasks in Fortzaleza

Seeing that at least one team will be ready to start the leg as early as about 11:15 pm.  They will arrive in Fortaleza much sooner if they choose from these flights:   :neener:

1   JJ 3366 leaving SSA at 2:30 am arrives FOR at 4:15 am   
2   JJ 3890 leaving SSA at 3:30 am arrives REC at 4:45 am   
      JJ 3890 leaving REC at 5:20 am arrives FOR at 6:35 am
3   G3 1642 leaving SSA at 6:45 am arrives REC at 8:00 am   
      G3 1642 leaving REC at 8:30 am arrives FOR at 9:40 am
4   G3 1817 leaving SSA at 1:15 am arrives GRU at 3:35 am   
      G3 1772 leaving GRU at 8:00 am arrives FOR at 11:20 am
5   JJ 3195 leaving SSA at 3:50 am arrives GIG at 5:50 am   
      JJ 3536 leaving GIG at 8:55 am arrives FOR at 12:05 pm



Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: georgiapeach on August 21, 2008, 05:01:06 AM
Or then again, maybe it is chartered flights??

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b105/rawalsh/TAR13/cast%20video/19Aug0039.jpg)

"Sign up for one of three/four charter planes/helicopters/buses/camels leaving the next morning leaving at staggered departure times."

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b105/rawalsh/TAR13/cast%20video/19Aug0041.jpg)

"We're team number seven? / We're made the seven o' clock?"

:nuala:
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on August 21, 2008, 06:58:36 AM
You've got some lousy Leg 2 flights to choose from:

Quote
4/25 leg 2,  choices of flights from Salvador to Fortaleza are:
SSA FOR  JJ8003 1130 1310
SSA FOR G31642 0645 0945
SSA FOR G31260 1100 1350
SSA GRU JJ3171 0600 0830  connecting GRU with JJ3302  0930 1245

followed by tasks in Fortzaleza

Thanks for your research, Chateau, but I consider it to be inapplicable because your assumptions are not right. Tasks will happen  all day in Salvador after a mid-morning arrival there. The pitstop is unlikely to start much before very late afternoon. Add 12 hours and you have my flights shown as the only ones that work. We'll
Seeing that at least one team will be ready to start the leg as early as about 11:15 pm.  They will arrive in Fortaleza much sooner if they choose from these flights:   :neener:

1   JJ 3366 leaving SSA at 2:30 am arrives FOR at 4:15 am   
2   JJ 3890 leaving SSA at 3:30 am arrives REC at 4:45 am   
      JJ 3890 leaving REC at 5:20 am arrives FOR at 6:35 am
3   G3 1642 leaving SSA at 6:45 am arrives REC at 8:00 am   
      G3 1642 leaving REC at 8:30 am arrives FOR at 9:40 am
4   G3 1817 leaving SSA at 1:15 am arrives GRU at 3:35 am   
      G3 1772 leaving GRU at 8:00 am arrives FOR at 11:20 am
5   JJ 3195 leaving SSA at 3:50 am arrives GIG at 5:50 am   
      JJ 3536 leaving GIG at 8:55 am arrives FOR at 12:05 pm




Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: sunnyca on August 21, 2008, 02:23:59 PM
It's time for a new updated timeline. Key new assumptions are that Delhi tasks will end on 5/7, making the release from the pitstop Thursday May 8, and that the missing pitstop is Astana, Kazakhstan. The Delhi day of the week is extremely significant because there is a nonstop flight  once per week flight from Delhi to Almaty, Kazakhstan but only on Saturday night. AR13 teams did not wait around for 2 days to get there more directly.
............
5/8 leg 8 begins
Delhi to Almaty Kazakhstan
This is one of the most interesting set of flight choices ever, all late at night and all taking more than 22 hours to reach ALA:

LH767 DEL FRA 0225 0710 connecting in Frankfurt with
LH646 FRA ALA 1305 0110+1 after a brief stop in Astana

BA142 DEL LHR 0210 0655 connecting in Heathrow with
BA7591 LHR ALA 1330 0140+1

AI310 DEL ICN 2315 1225+1 via Hong Kong, connecting in Seoul-Incheon with
Asiana577 ICN ALA  1810 2155

All of these are late night departures and late night arrivals. It is conceivable that to save monstrous airfares, WRP may have gotten a chartered jet.

5/9 teams arrive in Almaty in the wee hours or just prior to midnight; tasks take all day; then pitstop

5/10 leg 9 begins with choice of flights (not a long railroad trip) from Almaty to Astana:

KC751 0615 0810
KC851 0940 1125
KC813 1255 1440
KC818  1610 1755
KC878 1810 1955
KC855 1910 2055

followed by tasks in Astana area after arrival; pitstop (could be 24 hours)
NOTE that this leg is SPECULATION  at this point. It is the most logical possibilty, but there are many ways to get from Almaty to Moscow.

5/11 leg 10 begins; fly Astana to Moscow KC873 TSE SVO 2100 0220+1

ok, i'm just absorbing all this, so pardon me if you covered this - but isn't it possible to get to almaty from delhi with just one stop via dubai? this would explain the dubai sighting and not take 2 days..
you mentioned the flight getting into to dubai from delhi at 9.30 or 9.45 on thurs 5/8, then there's a flight they can catch to almaty leaving at 11.20am?
http://www.centralasiatourism.com/PDF-files/Almaty.pdf
this timetable says effective june 8, though, so maybe it was somewhat different in may...
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on August 21, 2008, 03:28:20 PM
sunnyca, your observation is right on. I did forget about the flight combinations via Dubai that do not come up in standard flight information systems because Air Astana is not a recognized carrier in them. By going back in this thread to probably early May, there is a post by me on the flight possiblities. None of the nonstop flights from Delhi ot Dubai seem to fir in conjunction with KC896 DBX ALA 1120 1740 beacuse none arrives by 1030 into Dubai. So, it is necessary to look at combinations to get to Dubai in time. The best one is Qatar 233 0500 0620 DEL DOH connecting with Qatar 100 0755 1000 DOH DXB, which I recall is a bus because that short distance can't take 2 hours in a plane.
Put all 3 of the above flights together and yuo hav departure at 0500 from Delhi and arrival in Almaty at 1740. You also get maybe an hour where teams could be spotted in Dubai airport.

The only hitch with this is whether teams could get into their pitstop in Delhi the afternoon of May 7 well before 4pm so there is time to get to the airport after release from the Delhi pitstop.

I have modified my most recent Timeline accordingly.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: sunnyca on August 21, 2008, 03:57:36 PM
cool!!  :yess:
yep, there's probably many ways to get into dubai from india - popular destination! - including the one in your may post -
Delhi to Dubai nonstop flights:
AI9897 DEL DXB 0745 0945
i just checked - this one's still running too, except it leaves at 7.50am now.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on August 21, 2008, 05:39:07 PM
sunnyca, I missed AI9897 because it shows up on Air India and on broad-based flight information systems as having no flights on Thursdays in August through to near the end of September. However, I have discovered that the reason for this is that those flights are already completely booked and therefore do not show up when a search for applicable flights is made. It is likely that AI9897 was flying on May 8, so it can be used as a preferred alternative to the Qatar Airways flights on my Timeline.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Chateau d If on August 22, 2008, 02:12:04 AM
Here are the flights that I think we will see the teams use to start the first leg.  This is a concoction of some flights we already know about and some new ones.  The re-working of this flight info comes about from the new understanding gained from the previews that teams do not stop for activities in Sao Paulo after all.  I was told that they flew to Sao Paulo by a United gate agent who was on hand when they sold them tickets to Sao Paulo.  I guess he did not know about the rest.

The United Airlines Group:

UA 116 leaving LAX at 12:55 pm arriving ORD at 6:55 pm
or UA 843 leaving LAX at 2:05 pm arriving ORD at 8:05 pm
Then UA 843 leaving ORD at 9:32 pm arriving GRU at 10:05 am
Then G3 1978 leaving GRU at 12:50 pm arriving SSA at 3:05 pm (canceled or missed)
Doing this instead:  LU 750 leaving GRU at 12:40 pm arriving GIG at 1:45 pm
Then G3 1830 leaving GIG at 2:35 pm arriving SSA at 4:30 pm

The American Airlines Group:

AA 252 leaving LAX at 1:55 pm arriving MIA at 9:42 pm
Then AA 905 leaving MIA at 11:10 pm arriving GIG at 8:30 am
Then G3 1600 leaving GIG at 10:30 am arriving SSA at 12:30 pm
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on August 22, 2008, 08:23:29 AM
Chateau, you are quite right to do an extension to Salvador on Wednesday April 23. the flights in my timetable only went to Sao Paulo. The extensions gives the opportunity to take a fresh look at flights. Your combination UA843/LU750/G3 1830 for the United flight group looks fine.

There are two American flight groups, I am aware of, through Miami and through Dallas.  The former is LAX MIA AA252 355 2142 connecting in Miami with AA995 GRU 2330 0830+1, then connecting in Sao Paulo with GRU SSA JJ3174 1035 1250. The other one through Dallas is LAX DFW AA2446 1250 1740 connecting in Dallas with DFW GRU AA963 1945 0750+1. This gives teams flight JJ3174 as a backup with the main chance being GRU SSA JJ3896 0830 1055.

So, my question to you is why a team would take a route through Rio de Janeiro that can do no better than arrive at approximately the same time as another route that could be 95 mintues earlier? With full information unless there were weather reports indicating delays at Sao Paulo and not Rio, it would not be a logical choice. The only possibility is that American Airlines had limited choices to offer teams. Your route's only advantage is that it does allow for the sighting of a few teams in the Rio airport.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Chateau d If on August 22, 2008, 10:27:30 AM
Yeah, I was not very comfortable with the arrangement.  I suspect there were disruptions in the flight schedules due to the Porto Alegre airport being closed on the morning of the 23rd.  The spoiler-Cordoba flight was diverted away from Porto Alegre.  And the tourist who blogged wrote that that flight was supposed to go on to Sao Paulo but went to Rio instead where he saw teams.

It's a bit of mess.

I only put in one AA group.  Two AAs could well have happened.   :duno:

We need some detective work on which teams were seen together and where.  I suspect the UA group is not very happy and they get the bad times from 19 BC.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on August 22, 2008, 11:17:17 AM
The Salvador arrival time for the UA group being 4 hours later than the earliest possible AA group, I am sure that the UA group is really unhappy about it. Presumably those were the last or stupidest teams to arrive at LAX.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: georgiapeach on August 22, 2008, 11:38:19 AM
I can tell you that no filming permits were issued for Miami. However, they apparently should have also  been issued for Chicago as well, and weren't, so this may not be helpful....
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on September 26, 2008, 12:23:21 PM
EPISODE 3 FLIGHTS
I have taken a fresh look at the flights from Fortaleza to either Santa Cruz or LaPaz Bolivia for episode 3, based on looking at each leg through Sao Paulo, Buenos Aires, and Lima. This is a very difficult route with long connections. Although the distances are not like Argentina to Moscow or Ushuaia to Maputo, it will take 12 hours or more to do this. Here are the possiblities for Fortaleza to Santa Cruz:

Best if pitstop release time is in the afternoon is JJ3849 FOR GRU 1515 1835 connecting in SaoPaulo with G37460 GRU VVI 2200 0115. There is a slightly earlier alternate fOR GRU - G31883 1440 1810.

The one most teams are likely to get is JJ3325 FOR GRU 0730 1130 connecting in Sao Paulo with 5L301 GRU VVI 1600 1730.

If a leading team is released by midnight, then they could get JJ3323 FOR GRU 0130 0500 connecting in Sao Paulo with AR1263 SRU EZE 0630 0925 and connecting in Buenos Aires with AR1362 EZE VVI 1115 1320.

Other routes from GRU to VVI through EZE are inferior; only this one above works for AR13.

For FOR LPB there are few options and the best is taking the middle option for get on 5L301 which goes GRU VVI and then continues on to LPB after a lengthy stopover, arriving at 2115; summarizing, it is 5L301 GRU LPB 1600 2115. In front of that you have JJ3325 FOR GRU 0730 1130.

Another option to LPB is to go through LIM.  We start FOR GRU with JJ3325 0730 1130. Next is GRU LIM LP780 1450 1810. finally, we have 5L1405 LIM LPB 2130 0015 or 3 hours later than the prior combination.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on September 26, 2008, 02:56:07 PM
I have done the same second look at episode 4 intra-South American flights by looking at each major hub and putting pieces together. Those hubs are Lima, Sao Paulo, and Buenos Aires. My current Timeline has the following:

Teams fly from Santa Cruz to Santiago. Choices are:
LAN967 VVI SCL 1205 1725
LAN967 VVI IQT 1205 1355  LAN365 IQT SCL 1920 2230
TA34     VVI LIM 0805 0900  TA33     LIM SCL  2100 0205+1


In addition to those valid flights, we can add 5L300 VVI GRU 0950 1345, connecting in SaoPaulo with GRU SCL LA751  1650 1945 and
JJ701 VVI EZE 1540 2040 connecting Buenos Aires with G37756 EZE SCL 2230 0045+1.

Those are still valid. In addition, if the flight is from LaPaz, then we could substitute TA38 LPB LIM 0855 0945 connecting in Lima with G37459 1420 1840  LIM SCL or the combination 5L111 LPB VVI 0700 0830 connecting SantaCruz with 5L300 VVI GRU 0950 1345, connecting in SaoPaulo with GRU SCL LA751  1650 1945.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on September 26, 2008, 05:20:33 PM
AR13 TIMELINE(note that this one assumes the 2 legs Delhi area and 2 legs Moscow scenario, which has a CBS claim supporting it and is proably right; it does not mean that legs 7 and 9 are still not open to question)

Depending on when they arrive at LAX, teams have choices of 3 flight combinations to Salvador:

4/22, leg 1
LAX DFW AA2446 1250 1740 connecting in Dallas with DFW GRU AA963 1945 0750+1 connecting Sao Paulo with GRU SSA JJ3896 0830 1055 or JJ3174 1035 1250

LAX MIA AA252 1355 2142 connecting in Miami with MIA GRU 2330 0830+1 connecting Sao Paulo with GRU SSA JJ3174 1035 1250

LAX GRU UA843 1405 1005+1 with a stop in ORD from 2005 to 2132 connecting in Sao Paulo with GRU SSA JJ3154 1200 1425

There are other possiblities for the American flight from Miami to connect in Rio, but they can arrive no earlier than the later TAM Aereas Lineas flight into Salvador.

tasks in Salvador; then Hours of Operation

4/23 tasks in Salvador

4/24  We know the elevator task in Salvador is this morning. It will be followed soon after by a pitstop. For top teams that means that they can reach the Salvador airport by 11pm and possibly get G31604 SSA FOR 2310 0055+1.

4/25 leg 2,  choices of flights from Salvador to Fortaleza are:
SSA FOR JJ3366 0230 0415
SSA FOR JJ3890 0330 0635
SSA FOR G31642 0645 0945
SSA FOR G31260 1100 1350
SSA FOR  JJ8003 1130 1310
followed by tasks in Fortzaleza

4/26 Pitstop in Fortaleza

4/27 leg 3
Best if pitstop release time is in the afternoon is JJ3849 FOR GRU 1515 1835 connecting in SaoPaulo with G37460 GRU VVI 2200 0115. There is a slightly earlier alternate fOR GRU - G31883 1440 1810.

The one most teams are likely to get is JJ3325 FOR GRU 0730 1130 connecting in Sao Paulo with 5L301 GRU VVI 1600 1730.

If a leading team is released by midnight, then they could get JJ3323 FOR GRU 0130 0500 connecting in Sao Paulo with AR1263 SRU EZE 0630 0925 and connecting in Buenos Aires with AR1362 EZE VVI 1115 1320.

Other routes from GRU to VVI through EZE are inferior; only this one above works for AR13.

For FOR LPB there are few options and the best is taking the  5L301 JJ3325 FOR GRU 0730 1130 connecting in Sao Paulo with 5L301 GRU VVI 1600 1730, then 5L211 VVI LPB 1900 2000.

Another option to LPB is to go through LIM.  We start FOR GRU with JJ3325 0730 1130. Next is GRU LIM LP780 1450 1810. finally, we have 5L1405 LIM LPB 2130 0015 or 3 hours later than the prior combination.

In addition, if the flight is from LaPaz, then TA38 LPB LIM 0855 0945 connecting in Lima with G37459 1420 1840  LIM SCL or the combination 5L111 LPB VVI 0700 0830 connecting SantaCruz with 5L300 VVI GRU 0950 1345, connecting in SaoPaulo with GRU SCL LA751  1650 1945.

4/28
Teams do tasks in Bolivia and then have a pitstop in the LaPaz area.

4/29 start of leg 4
If teams fly from Santa Cruz to Santiago choices are:
LAN967 VVI SCL 1205 1725
LAN967 VVI IQT 1205 1355  LAN365 IQT SCL 1920 2230
TA34     VVI LIM 0805 0900  TA33     LIM SCL  2100 0205+1
5L300 VVI GRU 0950 1345, connecting in SaoPaulo with GRU SCL LA751  1650 1945 and
JJ701 VVI EZE 1540 2040 connecting Buenos Aires with G37756 EZE SCL 2230 0045+1.

If the flight is from LaPaz, then choices are :
LAN 965 LPB SCL through Iquique 1245 1745
TA38 LPB LIM 0855 0945 connecting in Lima with G37459 1420 1840  LIM SCL
5L111 LPB VVI 0700 0830 connecting SantaCruz with 5L300 VVI GRU 0950 1345, connecting in SaoPaulo with GRU SCL LA751  1650 1945.

Since we know that the pitstop was in LPB, teams could have flown out of there or flown to SantaCruz to connect with the flights there.

4/30
It is highly highly likely that there is a REST DAY in the Santiago area.
What we appear to be sure of is that teams end up at Santiago Chile airport on this evening.

LAN801 2245 0355+2 SCL AKL

5/2 leg 4
Teams do tasks somewhere on the North Island of New Zealand from early morning until late evening when a pitstop starts.

5/3 and 5/4, leg 5
Teams return to Auckland International Airport and fly out in multiple bunches from noon until midnight. Choices of routes from AKL to REP (Siem Reap) are:

AKL BKK TG990 1315 2100, connecting with BKK REP PG903 0800 0900

AKL SYD 1245 1415 NZ119  or  1325 1450 QF190  or 1550 1715 EK419 (note: since it is rumored that an Emirates flight was used, EK419 is thee most likely of the 3)
these connect in Sydney to get SYD BKK with connection on one of these:
1550 2215 TG996
1635 2255 QF301
1700 2315 QF1

The AKL BNE route has several choices:
QF126 1435 1625
NZ739 1530 1720
EK433 1655 1835 this then continues on to Singapore with BNE SIN EK433 2045 0150+1 and then SIN REP 3K595 0600 0700

The BNE BKK route has TG992 2359 0559+1. this would be followed by  BKK REP PG903 0800 0900

Then BNE SIN has a flight after EK433 - SQ2246 2345 0545+1, but it is not in time to connect with 3K595 so teams doing thhis must wait for SIN REP MI616 1025 1135.
Other flights BNE SIN are SQ246 2345 0545. This would connect with 3K595.

There are no flights BKK REP until the morning of May 4. May 4 reports of PG503 0800 0900 not having any teams sighted may be inaccurate, as it is the only flight that could get teams there from Bangkok by late morning since there was no possibility of them leaving Auckland in the afternoon and reaching Bangkok before 7pm.

Another route is AKL MEL 1300 1500 NZ2725  or 1615 1815 QF134
Those connect with MEL BKK 1605 2235 TG982 or
MEL SIN 1920 0100 EK405, which requires a connection to Bangkok or waiting until MI616 SIN REP 1025 1135.
That connection on May 4 is either TG402 SIN BKK 0740 0900 or SQ970 0845 1010. Then a connection to PG905 BKK REP 1100 1220 is the next one possible.

One late team is probably on AKL SIN 2355 0645 SQ282 connecting there with SQ970 and PG905 shown above to avoid waiting for MI633.

5/4 continued
tasks and then in Siem Reap area

5/5, start of leg 6
tasks in Siem Reap area, then regular pitstop

5/6 start of leg 6
Siem Reap to Bangkok airport
PG904 REP BKK 0950 1045 .

Choice of this nonstop flights from BKK to DEL:
IC854 BKK DEL 1330 1615

arrival into downtown Delhi would be around 1800.

It looks like the alternate flight connection for any lagging teams is:

PG906 1250 1400 REP BKK
TG315 1745 2045 BKK DEL

5/7
Delhi tasks and start of pitstop

5/8 leg 7 begins, Delhi area tasks;

5/9 leg 8 begins; Delhi to Almaty Kazakhstan
AI9897 0745 0945 DEL DXB  connecting with KC896 1120 1740 DBX ALA; some Almaty tasks after arrival

5/10 Almaty area tasks; pitstop

5/11 leg 9 begins; fly Almaty to Astana KC991 1810 1955 connecting with
Astana to Moscow KC873 TSE SVO 2100 0220+1

5/12 tasks; ending possibly with a TBC

5/13 leg 10 begins, possibly after TBC; Moscow tasks, then afternoon start of pitstop

5/14 leg 11, the FINISH LINE in The Rose City, Portland Oregon
0705 0825 LH3189  DME FRA
0945 1120 LH468  FRA PDX, then tasks until FINISH LINE
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on September 28, 2008, 10:08:41 PM
I did a make-good analysis on the flights I expected vs. those team may have actually taken. The first piece of evidence is that teams on their way to LAX indicate a 3 hour difference with "American" over "United." Here are the flights predicted:

4/22, leg 1
LAX DFW AA2446 1250 1740 connecting in Dallas with DFW GRU AA963 1945 0750+1 (Note: first to arrive if on schedule)

LAX MIA AA252 1355 2142 connecting in Miami with AA995 MIA GRU 2330 0830+1 (Note: second to arrive if on schedule)

LAX GRU UA843 1405 1005+1 with a stop in ORD from 2005 to 2132 (Note: third and last to arrive)

4/23  teams go from GRU to SSA(Salvador) but it is unclear how many fly nonstop and how many connect through Rio de Janeiro. There are numerous 2 1/4 hour nonstops from GRU to SSA.

Now the first and best option through DFW was not offered to teams for unknown reasons. It may have been a full enough flight, WRP may have erstricted it, or AA may have restricted it.
The best route for teams was AA252 connecting with AA995 connecting GRU SSA G31941 1005 1220. You can look at an alternate AA252 connecting with AA905 GRU GIG 2330 0830 but it arrives 5 minutes later in SSA after connecting with GIG SSA JJ8001 1020 1225. The could also fly on GOL, but who would want to since it is 10 minutes behind JJ8001?
The other route is the UA842 LAX ORD and continuing ORD GRU as shown above and connecting there with JJ3154 1215 1440.
That results in a difference of 1440 - 1225 = 2 hours 15 minutes, or less than the 3 hours. There are no flights that give you 3 hours, so I am not worried.

The other factor to considered here is the delay for the Rio-connecting passengers. That cut the real gap between American and United, but it is not clear how much.

 
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on September 30, 2008, 08:12:21 AM
The earlier than expected arrival of probably the first 4 teams to the Fort Sao Marcelo pitstop in Salvador opens up a possibility of one more flight. Since the 1010am or some after finish of the first 4 teams makes it possible for them to reach the Salvador airport in time for a Thursday April 24 1110pm flight. They may have been able to get on G31604 SSA FOR 2310 0055+1. All the other teams will probably be on G33366 0230 0415 identified previously.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Chateau d If on September 30, 2008, 12:13:33 PM
I thought these were the actual flights taken:

American Airlines group:
AA 252 LAX MIA leaving 1:55 pm, arriving 9:42 pm
AA 905 MIA GIG leaving 11:10 pm, arriving 8:30 am
G3 1600 GIG SSA leaving 10:30 am, arriving 12:30 pm (but is delayed 1.5 hours)


United Airlines group:
UA 843 LAX ORD leaving 2:05 pm, arriving 8:05 pm
UA 843 ORD GRU leaving 9:32 pm, arriving 10:05 pm
JJ 3172 GRU SSA leaving 1:30 pm, arriving 3:50 pm


We know they were on G3 1600 because it is in the broadcast.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on September 30, 2008, 02:39:05 PM
Chateau, good catch twice, but some of your flights don't make sense even if they were actualy used. I did inadvertently switch the flight numbers on AA905 (which is from MIA GIG) and AA995 (which is from MIA GRU). However, I can see no reason why American Airlines would send AR13 teams to Rio when AA995 to Sao Paulo arrives there earlier than AA905 does in Rio. Once there in Sao Paulo the connection I have shown is the best. In Rio, if teams did go there (and I do not recall any evidence about the TAM flight on episode 1), they would have been motivated back in LAX to choose JJ8001, which leaves 10 minutes before G3 1600. Why would teams want to wait around even 10 minutes in the competitive environment? Maybe American Airlines forced their choice. I don't know.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on September 30, 2008, 02:41:36 PM
I was asked to move this posting from elsewhere. It fits as well here as there.

If you read through the Vyxsin and Kynt blog (http://thebiz.fancast.com/2008/09/kynt_vyxsin_pink_black_blast_0.html#more) about AR13ep.1 to the end, it says "They will have a crucial time advantage over the other 9 teams, should they use it effectively." I do not understand it, because it looked like Ken and Tina finished about 5 minutes behind Nick and Starr. I also thought that Terence and Sarah and Mark and Bill were not far behind.

The finish time of Nick and Starr per their Insider clip was "1 hour 10 means after they started" on April 24, which means it is 1010 with them being in the 9:00am release group. Add 12 hours and you have 2210 for pitstop release. It will take 5 minutes to get back from Forte Sao Marcelo and an unknown amount of time to flag down a taxi. Then it is a straight shot 12 miles up the coast road BA099 to Magelhaes International Airport. At that time of night traffic should be light. I am guessing that they could be there betwen 2245 and 2300. If on the earlier side of that range then they could get on GOL 1604 SSA FOR 2310 0055. If not, they will get bunched with all other teams going on GOL 3366 0230 0415. However, if successful they will have a 3 hour 20 minute lead. It may not be possible for any other team to do the same, but Ken and Tina, Terence and Sarah and Mark and Bill could theoretically do it. Any teams that wants to try is going to have to really hustle(not a problem for the first 3 of these teams and we'll see about Mark and Bill). If a team even stops to check on flight times, they are not going to make it(but would not know that because they should not have access to any schedules at the pitstop since they don't know where they are going.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: georgiapeach on September 30, 2008, 02:46:25 PM
It sounded to me that for this episode (1), the teams were TOLD what flights to take, weren't they?  So they may not have had the usual chances to try for a better flight...

And thanks for the episode 2 updates--I 'll be watching to see if they can make it! :yess:
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Chateau d If on September 30, 2008, 04:19:03 PM
Quote
However, I can see no reason why American Airlines would send AR13 teams to Rio when AA995 to Sao Paulo arrives there earlier than AA905 does in Rio. Once there in Sao Paulo the connection I have shown is the best. In Rio, if teams did go there (and I do not recall any evidence about the TAM flight on episode 1), they would have been motivated back in LAX to choose JJ8001, which leaves 10 minutes before G3 1600.

Here are two screen caps that show what happened in Rio.  The audio track says "Attencion, flight 1600 is delayed"

There may have been better flight choices but flights are spoon fed on leg 1 so they have to use the ones given. 
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on September 30, 2008, 04:51:15 PM
Chateau, thank you for providing your evidence that I asked for.  If you were on JJ8001 and about to go board that delayed flight, what would be seeing on the monitor? I expect that it would be delayed LATER flights such as G31600. You need better proof than the monitor that teams took the GOL flight. Perhaps anyone asking one of the "American group" (first 6 to leave LAX) can answer that when they are eliminated.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Chateau d If on September 30, 2008, 05:20:22 PM
It's kind of complicated, but remember this spoiler:

Quote
For those of you who are unfamiliar with the reality TV show, The Amazing Race, it is a competition where people travel all over the world in a hectic rat race to come in first and win the big prize. I..m actually not all that familiar with the show myself but I..m pretty sure they were on my airplane.

This situation happened completely by chance. From Cordoba, we were to have a stop over in Porto Alegre another stop in Sao Paulo and then arrive in Salvador in the afternoon. Because of fog, the airport in Porto Alegre was closed, so we had to detour to Rio and from there, fly to Salvador, which was actually much more efficient and convenient.

At the airport in Rio, we noticed several film crews and people in teams of two, often wearing matching outfits. These two girls from Texas (according to their t-shirts anyway) were wearing matching black biker shorts, bright pink tank tops and a ton of make-up. I think the t-shirt was pretty accurate. Anyway, we noticed them being interviewed by the film crews, acting out dramatic situations and so-on. When it came time to board we talked to some of them and lent one of them our brazil book, although they didn..t give us many details about what they were doing. There was a delay in taking off and one team asked if they could move closer to the front. As soon as they did, all the other contestants tried to do the same. It was kind of annoying becuase I think it delayed our take-off even more. Anyway, at that point, we were pretty confident that if it wasn..t The Amazing Race, it was an amazing race of some sort.


We determined that they were originally on a flight from Cordoba, Argentina to Porto Alegre:  G3 7496

So it follows that the flight they take from GIG to SSA would be with G3 since they would continue with that same airlines.

Also G31600 shows up on Matt's board and JJ8001 is not present.  Are you sure that flight was active on April 23rd?
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on October 13, 2008, 04:28:36 PM
I have been looking for an earlier alternative to LA965 LPB SCL 1000 1510. I have found something that is not as good but provides one alternative more than those listed under 4/29 flight information in my latest Timetable. It is:

5L300 LPB VVI 0715 0815
5L210 VVI EZE 1015 1500
LA450 EZE SCL 1550 1710

Unfortunately, I found no way to take advantage of the approximately 10 hours before the departure  of LA965. Nothing help you get to SCL any sooner.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Chateau d If on October 14, 2008, 01:52:19 AM
Here's what we have seen so far.  The newspaper that Teams read in the morning in La Paz is the April 28th (http://www.la-razon.com/versiones/20080428_006256/nota_274_586289.htm) edition of La Razon.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: puddin on October 14, 2008, 02:14:57 AM
Well done Chateau  :jumpy:, amazing stuff as always  :jam:

hmm lets see if this works for a thumbnail *click click* (http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b105/rawalsh/th_index-1.jpg) (http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b105/rawalsh/index-2.jpg)
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on October 14, 2008, 07:37:36 AM
chateau,

Dawn on April 28 was not until 622am and sunrise until 644am in La Paz. How could teams be in the lighting conditions we observed in episode 3 before dawn? It didn't happen until maybe 30 to 60 minutes later.

It is possible that you have not seen or do not agree with my hypothesis above that there was a 24 hour acclimization perid that took place on arrival in Bolivia. This makes more sense than doing an extended 36 hour pitstop in Fortaleza.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on October 14, 2008, 08:07:51 AM
It's time for another updated Timeline. puddin is quite correct in saying that that it doesn't matter whether it was an 36 hour extended pitstop in Fortaleza or an extra 24 hours acclimatization in LaPaz does not affect what comes later. It takes us to the start of tasks in LaPaz the morning of April 28 either way. Here is my latest timeline, which as you can see assumes the 24 hour acclimatization period in LaPaz:

AR13 TIMELINE(note that this one assumes the 2 legs Delhi area and 2 legs Moscow scenario, which has a CBS claim supporting it and is proably right; it does not mean that legs 7 and 9 are still not open to question)

Depending on when they arrive at LAX, teams have choices of 3 flight combinations to Salvador:

4/22, leg 1
LAX DFW AA2446 1250 1740 connecting in Dallas with DFW GRU AA963 1945 0750+1 connecting Sao Paulo with GRU SSA JJ3896 0830 1055 or JJ3174 1035 1250

LAX MIA AA252 1355 2142 connecting in Miami with MIA GRU 2330 0830+1 connecting Sao Paulo with GRU SSA JJ3174 1035 1250

LAX GRU UA843 1405 1005+1 with a stop in ORD from 2005 to 2132 connecting in Sao Paulo with GRU SSA JJ3154 1200 1425

There are other possiblities for the American flight from Miami to connect in Rio, but they can arrive no earlier than the later TAM Aereas Lineas flight into Salvador.

tasks in Salvador; then Hours of Operation

4/23 tasks in Salvador

4/24  We know the elevator task in Salvador is this morning. It will be followed soon after by a pitstop. For top teams that means that they can reach the Salvador airport by 11pm and possibly get G31604 SSA FOR 2310 0055+1.

4/25 leg 2,  choices of flights from Salvador to Fortaleza are:
SSA FOR JJ3366 0230 0415
SSA FOR JJ3890 0330 0635
SSA FOR G31642 0645 0945
SSA FOR G31260 1100 1350
SSA FOR  JJ8003 1130 1310
followed by tasks in Fortzaleza that are complete around 1pm or slightly later;
Pitstop in Fortaleza ends from about 1am to about a half hour later

4/26 leg 3
Best if pitstop release time is in the afternoon is JJ3849 FOR GRU 1515 1835 connecting in SaoPaulo with G37460 GRU VVI 2200 0115. There is a slightly earlier alternate fOR GRU - G31883 1440 1810.

The one most teams are likely to get is JJ3325 FOR GRU 0730 1130 connecting in Sao Paulo with 5L301 GRU VVI 1600 1730.

If a leading team is released by midnight, then they could get JJ3323 FOR GRU 0130 0500 connecting in Sao Paulo with AR1263 SRU EZE 0630 0925 and connecting in Buenos Aires with AR1362 EZE VVI 1115 1320.

Other routes from GRU to VVI through EZE are inferior; only this one above works for AR13.

For FOR LPB there are few options and the best is taking the  5L301 JJ3325 FOR GRU 0730 1130 connecting in Sao Paulo with 5L301 GRU VVI 1600 1730, then 5L211 VVI LPB 1900 2000.

Another option to LPB is to go through LIM.  We start FOR GRU with JJ3325 0730 1130. Next is GRU LIM LP780 1450 1810. finally, we have 5L1405 LIM LPB 2130 0015 or 3 hours later than the prior combination.

In addition, if the flight is from LaPaz, then TA38 LPB LIM 0855 0945 connecting in Lima with G37459 1420 1840  LIM SCL or the combination 5L111 LPB VVI 0700 0830 connecting SantaCruz with 5L300 VVI GRU 0950 1345, connecting in SaoPaulo with GRU SCL LA751  1650 1945.

once teams arrive in LaPaz airport I believe they go to a 24 hour special rest break for acclimiatization to  the LaPaz altitude

4/28
Teams do tasks in Bolivia starting around 7am and then have an extended 24 hour pitstop late morning in the LaPaz area.

4/29 Pitstop release just before midnight; start of leg 4

4/30
LAN 965 LPN SCL through Iquique 1245 1745 or
5L300 LPB VVI 0715 0815 connecting SantaCruz to 5L210 VVI EZE 1015 1500 connecting Buenos Aires to LA450 EZE SCL 1550 1710

There are other combinations with arrive SCL up to 8pm, but none are likely coompare to the two above.

LAN801 2245 0355+2 SCL AKL, the trans-South Pacific Crossing

5/2 leg 4
Teams do tasks somewhere on the North Island of New Zealand from early morning until late evening when a pitstop starts.

5/3 and 5/4, leg 5
Teams return to Auckland International Airport and fly out in multiple bunches from noon until midnight. Choices of routes from AKL to REP (Siem Reap) are:

AKL BKK TG990 1315 2100, connecting with BKK REP PG903 0800 0900

AKL SYD 1245 1415 NZ119  or  1325 1450 QF190  or 1550 1715 EK419 (note: since it is rumored that an Emirates flight was used, EK419 is thee most likely of the 3)
these connect in Sydney to get SYD BKK with connection on one of these:
1550 2215 TG996
1635 2255 QF301
1700 2315 QF1

The AKL BNE route has several choices:
QF126 1435 1625
NZ739 1530 1720
EK433 1655 1835 this then continues on to Singapore with BNE SIN EK433 2045 0150+1 and then SIN REP 3K595 0600 0700

The BNE BKK route has TG992 2359 0559+1. this would be followed by  BKK REP PG903 0800 0900

Then BNE SIN has a flight after EK433 - SQ2246 2345 0545+1, but it is not in time to connect with 3K595 so teams doing thhis must wait for SIN REP MI616 1025 1135.
Other flights BNE SIN are SQ246 2345 0545. This would connect with 3K595.

There are no flights BKK REP until the morning of May 4. May 4 reports of PG503 0800 0900 not having any teams sighted may be inaccurate, as it is the only flight that could get teams there from Bangkok by late morning since there was no possibility of them leaving Auckland in the afternoon and reaching Bangkok before 7pm.

Another route is AKL MEL 1300 1500 NZ2725  or 1615 1815 QF134
Those connect with MEL BKK 1605 2235 TG982 or
MEL SIN 1920 0100 EK405, which requires a connection to Bangkok or waiting until MI616 SIN REP 1025 1135.
That connection on May 4 is either TG402 SIN BKK 0740 0900 or SQ970 0845 1010. Then a connection to PG905 BKK REP 1100 1220 is the next one possible.

One late team is probably on AKL SIN 2355 0645 SQ282 connecting there with SQ970 and PG905 shown above to avoid waiting for MI633.

5/4 continued
arrival, tasks in Siem Reap area

5/5,
tasks in Siem Reap area, then regular pitstop

5/6 start of leg 6
Siem Reap to Bangkok airport
PG904 REP BKK 0950 1045 .

Choice of this nonstop flights from BKK to DEL:
IC854 BKK DEL 1330 1615

arrival into downtown Delhi would be around 1800.

It looks like the alternate flight connection for any lagging teams is:

PG906 1250 1400 REP BKK
TG315 1745 2045 BKK DEL

5/7
Delhi tasks and start of pitstop

5/8 leg 7 begins, Delhi area tasks;

5/9 leg 8 begins; Delhi to Almaty Kazakhstan
AI9897 0745 0945 DEL DXB  connecting with KC896 1120 1740 DBX ALA; some Almaty tasks after arrival

5/10 Almaty area tasks; pitstop

5/11 leg 9 begins; fly Almaty to Astana KC991 1810 1955 connecting with
Astana to Moscow KC873 TSE SVO 2100 0220+1

5/12 tasks; ending possibly with a TBC

5/13 leg 10 begins, possibly after TBC; Moscow tasks, then afternoon start of pitstop

5/14 leg 11, the FINISH LINE in The Rose City, Portland Oregon
0705 0825 LH3189  DME FRA
0945 1120 LH468  FRA PDX, then tasks until FINISH LINE


Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on October 14, 2008, 10:07:55 AM
Rewatching the arrival sequence, it looks like Nick/Star and Mark/Bill got on the Santa Cruz connection, while the rest took the Lima route. The lead teams arrive on an Aerosur flight (plane in the background while teams walk on the tarmac) and the taxi to Simon Bolivar shows a clock saying 9.32 (pm, as it is dark), congruent with an 8pm arrival.

For the trailing teams, the route through Peru would explain Aja/Ty checking in at the Lan counter at Sao Paulo. Marissa/Brooke and Andrew/Dan definitely arrive on the second flight, and third-place Terence/Sarah's "Hi guys!" seems to suggest they took separate flights.

Both lead teams are wearing the same clothes getting into the taxi at the airport and arriving at Simon Bolivar. Would this help the case that there was no 24-hour camp-out in La Paz? (You know, we do like to get the details right...)

ETA: Who's that on the left in the third pic?
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on October 14, 2008, 10:35:26 AM
Neobie, are you sure which episode you have? The picture of Bill/Mark makes me believe that they could be for epsiode 3. The flights into LaPaz connected in both Sao Paulo and in Santa Cruz. Outgoing flights do one of both, so which is it?
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on October 14, 2008, 10:41:53 AM
Yes, yes, all the above are vidcaps from Leg 3! (I mean, Mark/Bill wouldn't be racing beyond Leg 3, would they?)

I'm actually trying to come to a conclusion on what happened flight-wise and timeline-wise on this leg. Here are your flights I've picked out:

Fortaleza to Sao Paulo on JJ3325: 0730-1130 (or any other flight)
Sao Paulo to Santa Cruz on 5L301: 1600-1730
Santa Cruz to La Paz on 5L211: 1900-2000

Fortaleza to Sao Paulo on JJ3325: 0730-1130 (or any other flight)
Sao Paulo to Lima on LP780: 1450-1810
Lima to La Paz on 5L1405: 2130-0015

I'm thinking if teams didn't change their clothes between touching down at the airport and arriving at Simon Bolivar; and with Mark/Bill in their taxi at a time matching a 8pm flight arrival, it could very well point to a Pit Stop extension in Fortaleza instead of a 24-hour break at La Paz - there seems not to be a gap in between airport arrivals and the rest of the leg.

(Not that they wouldn't do it for the first time, but TPTB has never had a mid-leg rest break before.)

And solving "mysterious person" could tell us whether Terence/Sarah made the earlier or later flight, since he's just starting to roll out his blankets. Nick/Starr did well to jump ahead at the airport this leg!
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Chateau d If on October 14, 2008, 11:12:21 AM
Quote
Both lead teams are wearing the same clothes getting into the taxi at the airport and arriving at Simon Bolivar. Would this help the case that there was no 24-hour camp-out in La Paz? (You know, we do like to get the details right...)

Brilliant work Neobie!  I forgot about the clothes.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: banzai on October 14, 2008, 11:25:16 AM
(http://forum.realityfanforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=15365.0;attach=110690;image)

(http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/3465/toni2os6.th.jpg) (http://img507.imageshack.us/my.php?image=toni2os6.jpg)

Dallas' backpack is orange too.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on October 20, 2008, 12:37:13 PM
puddin is quite correct in saying that that it doesn't matter whether it was an 36 hour extended pitstop in Fortaleza or an extra 24 hours acclimatization in LaPaz does not affect what comes later. It takes us to the start of tasks in LaPaz the morning of April 28 either way. Here is my latest timeline, which as you can see assumes the 24 hour acclimatization period in LaPaz:

AR13 TIMELINE(modified Oct. 20)

Depending on when they arrive at LAX, teams have choices of 3 flight combinations to Salvador:

4/22, leg 1
LAX DFW AA2446 1250 1740 connecting in Dallas with DFW GRU AA963 1945 0750+1 connecting Sao Paulo with GRU SSA JJ3896 0830 1055 or JJ3174 1035 1250

LAX MIA AA252 1355 2142 connecting in Miami with MIA GRU 2330 0830+1 connecting Sao Paulo with GRU SSA JJ3174 1035 1250

LAX GRU UA843 1405 1005+1 with a stop in ORD from 2005 to 2132 connecting in Sao Paulo with GRU SSA JJ3154 1200 1425

There are other possiblities for the American flight from Miami to connect in Rio, but they can arrive no earlier than the later TAM Aereas Lineas flight into Salvador.

tasks in Salvador; then Hours of Operation

4/23 tasks in Salvador

4/24  We know the elevator task in Salvador is this morning. It will be followed soon after by a pitstop. For top teams that means that they can reach the Salvador airport by 11pm and possibly get G31604 SSA FOR 2310 0055+1.

4/25 leg 2,  choices of flights from Salvador to Fortaleza are:
SSA FOR JJ3366 0230 0415
SSA FOR JJ3890 0330 0635
SSA FOR G31642 0645 0945
SSA FOR G31260 1100 1350
SSA FOR  JJ8003 1130 1310
followed by tasks in Fortzaleza that are complete around 1pm or slightly later;
Pitstop in Fortaleza ends from about 1am to about a half hour later

4/26 leg 3
For FOR LPB there are few options and the best is taking the  5L301 JJ3325 FOR GRU 0730 1130 connecting in Sao Paulo with 5L301 GRU VVI 1600 1730, then 5L211 VVI LPB 1900 2000.

Another option to LPB is to go through LIM.  We start FOR GRU with JJ3325 0730 1130. Next is GRU LIM LP780 1450 1810. finally, we have 5L1405 LIM LPB 2130 0015 or 3 hours later than the prior combination.

once teams arrive in LaPaz airport I believe they go to a 24 hour special rest break for acclimiatization to  the LaPaz altitude
4/27 Acclimatization rest break

4/28
Teams do tasks in Bolivia starting around 7am and then have an extended 36 hour pitstop late morning in the LaPaz area.

4/29 Pitstop

4/30
 pitstop release just after midnight; start of leg 4
LAN 965 LPN SCL through Iquique 1245 1745 or
5L300 LPB VVI 0715 0815 connecting SantaCruz to 5L210 VVI EZE 1015 1500 connecting Buenos Aires to LA450 EZE SCL 1550 1710

LAN801 2245 0355+2 SCL AKL, the trans-South Pacific Crossing

5/2 leg 4
Teams do tasks on the North Island of New Zealand from 4am until pitstop checkin from 1030am until about 7pm.

5/3 and 5/4, leg 5
Teams return with a 2 hour drive to Auckland International Airport and fly out in multiple bunches from early afternoon until midnight. Choices of routes from AKL to REP (Siem Reap) are:

AKL SYD QF114 1350 1510 connecting with QF319 SYD SIN 1635 2145 and then 3K595 SIN REP 0600+1 0700+1
 
AKL BNE EK433 1655 1835 this then continues on the same flight to Singapore with BNE SIN EK433 2045 0150+1 and then SIN REP 3K595 0600+1 0700+1

Another route is AKL MEL 1300 1500 NZ2725  or 1615 1815 QF134

One late team is probably on AKL SIN 2355 0645 SQ282 connecting there with SIN BKK SQ970 0845 1010 then BKK REP PG905 1100 1220

5/4 continued
tasks in Siem Reap area, then extended 36 hour pitstop

5/5,
pitstop

5/6 start of leg 6
Siem Reap to Bangkok airport
PG904 REP BKK 0950 1045 .

Choice of this nonstop flights from BKK to DEL:
IC854 BKK DEL 1330 1615

arrival into downtown Delhi would be around 1800.

It looks like the alternate flight connection for any lagging teams is:

PG906 1250 1400 REP BKK
TG315 1745 2045 BKK DEL

5/7
Delhi tasks and start of pitstop

5/8 leg 7 begins, Delhi area tasks;

5/9 leg 8 begins; Delhi to Almaty Kazakhstan
AI9897 0745 0945 DEL DXB  connecting with KC896 1120 1740 DBX ALA; some Almaty tasks after arrival

5/10 Almaty area tasks; pitstop

5/11 leg 9 begins; fly Almaty to Astana KC991 1810 1955 connecting with
Astana to Moscow KC873 TSE SVO 2100 0220+1

5/12 tasks; ending possibly with a TBC

5/13 leg 10 begins, possibly after TBC; Moscow tasks, then afternoon start of pitstop

5/14 leg 11, the FINISH LINE in The Rose City, Portland Oregon
0705 0825 LH3189  DME FRA
0945 1120 LH468  FRA PDX, then tasks until FINISH LINE


 
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: georgiapeach on October 22, 2008, 01:33:46 PM
Apskip, don't forget that CBS/WRP has issued the OFFICIAL MAP of the Pitstop/Legs for the race.

They show ONE for Siem Reap
TWO for Delhi (New and Old)
ONE for Kazakhstan
TWO for Moscow
All of which fits perfectly for our remaining legs.

I would certainly have reversed that and focused the double legs on our new places of Siem Reap and Kazakhstan, but apparently they didn't agree. (:;)


And I have read/listened to multiple interviews and am convinced IMO, that Fortaleza had an extended Pitstop (teams definitely seen at a group dinner)  and La Paz did not (audio interview of Mark and Bill talking about sleeping outside and beginning the task in the AM).  IMO, there was no "acclimatization" extension.  We will definitely need to ask the racers about this!
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Chateau d If on October 22, 2008, 02:02:01 PM
Quote
and La Paz did not

But the Pit Stop in La Paz was 36 hours before starting the leg to New Zealand.  Right?
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: georgiapeach on October 22, 2008, 02:38:02 PM
I meant to say that La Paz did not have some "in-race" acclimitization. I am still puzzled about what happened between La Paz and Santiago and imagine I will stay that way until the racers can fill us in. :lol:  April 29 went somewhere!
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on October 22, 2008, 05:19:13 PM
Peach, Chateau is absolutely right. It was a 36 hour extended pitstop starting around 1pm on April 28 and ending just around 1am on April 30. April 29 was compeletely subsumed by that pitstop.

Peach, on the two 2-legs question,  I suggest you go back and read my Timeline more carefully. For some time it has been showing legs 6 and 7 for the Delhi region and legs 9 and 10 for Moscow with Almaty Kazakhstan in between. That is correct by the CBS Amazing Map as best I can tell.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: georgiapeach on October 22, 2008, 05:31:21 PM
Sorry... :-[

I think I got confused by this which is prob just a typo:

5/5, start of leg 6
tasks in Siem Reap area, then regular pitstop

5/6 start of leg 6
Siem Reap to Bangkok airport
PG904 REP BKK 0950 1045 .
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on October 22, 2008, 05:44:40 PM
Peach:
You are right. I did have a typo and it was contradictory. Here is what I have modified it to say:

5/4 continued
arrival, tasks in Siem Reap area

5/5,
tasks in Siem Reap area, then regular pitstop


May 5 is not the start of leg 6. It has the start of the pitstop for leg 5.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on November 02, 2008, 05:52:37 AM
Random musings, since Ty and Aja's "kiss me, I need a little affection" was not filmed in Singapore's Changi Airport. (That's not the airport I know!) Did they connect through somewhere else on top of Singapore?

Recognize the sarong kebaya of the Singapore Airlines stewardess on their arrival in Singapore, and the Silk Air livery on their arrival in Siem Reap, though. That means the unfamiliar airport was between Auckland and Singapore. Sydney, maybe?
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Chateau d If on November 02, 2008, 11:55:32 AM
Could it have been Auckland? 
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on November 02, 2008, 01:57:05 PM
I don't know, but their flight would mostly likely have been AKL SIN 2355 0645 SQ282. If they had gotten Emirates 
EK433   6:00p 6:30p AKL BNE connecting with EK433 8:00p 130a then Ty/Aja would have easily made 3K595 at 6am SIN REP, which they clelarly did not.
 

Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on November 10, 2008, 09:59:16 AM
I have taken another look at Delhi to Almaty flight combinations. What I show now is:

IC897 0745 0945 DEL DXB  connecting in Dubai with KC896 1120 1740 DBX ALA
TK1079 0445 0910 DEL IST connecting in Istanbul to TK1350 IST ALA 1940 0400+1

The latest gives teams these additional options:

DEL DOH QR233 0455 0655 connecting to DOH DXB QR100 0755 1000, connecting to DXB ALA KC896 1120 1740
DEL SVO SU534 0215 0615 connecting to SVO ALA KC872 0920 1645

I am thinking that the pitstop checkin times were about 12pm to 1pm for all teams; the thing that's hard to gauge is the tranportation time between the tasks, which tends in the Delhi area to be more significant a factor than task completion times. If so, then the first 3 teams after a 12 hour pitstop chould be able to get the last combination shown above through Moscow. Memory tells me that teams are obligated to visit a travel agency for international flight tickets before they will be allowed into the airport. If they are quick enough at the travel agency, Nick/Starr, Toni/Dallas and Terence/Sarah will be able to get to Almaty by 445pm. If not, the next flight gets teams in at 540pm 55 minutes later.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Zack. on November 10, 2008, 07:53:40 PM
FWIW they're all bunched up at the chicken factory (HOO 730 - 2000) for the FF clue, so I assume it's the first place they go to upon arrival.

(http://forum.realityfanforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=17762.0;attach=110945;image)

Perhaps they get a task in Delhi first, pushing the lead teams back some? Or we could always have another slightly extended pit stop.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on November 10, 2008, 08:56:08 PM
CBS insider video "Terence and Sarah's New Friend" shows Terence talking about making the money necklace "last night". So no >24h stay in Delhi Pit Stop #1!
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on November 16, 2008, 09:03:32 PM
Flights for Leg 8, Delhi to Dubai:

Nick/Starr, Toni/Dallas and Ken/Tina
Delhi to Frankfurt on LH761: 0225-0710
Frankfurt to Almaty on LH648: 1320-2350

Dan/Andrew
Delhi to Dubai on EK513: 0415-0630
Dubai to Almaty on KC898: 2255-0515
(This second flight works on Fridays, but not Thursdays. Pit Start is therefore Thursday night, 8th May. Extended Pit Stop alert!)

Terence/Sarah
Delhi to Moscow on SU536: 0430-0930
Moscow to Almaty: No idea on this. I've only got Air Astana and Transaero going this route, but nothing on the schedule fits. Ideas?
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on November 16, 2008, 09:16:11 PM
So what were the teams doing on inferior flights? Were all seat taken on the good ones?

Let's start with my best one, IC897 0745 0945 DEL DXB  connecting in Dubai with KC896 1120 1740 DBX ALA. Andrew and Dan were left to go through Dubai They went on EK513 DEL DXB 0514 0630, so they were in dubai with plenty of time for that connection. That should have landed them in first place. What happened? There are 3 possible answers that I can think of. Either KC896 was fully booked or a flight booker screwed up by not knowing about it or KC896 does not fly when teams are arriving to Kazakhstan. I checked on the last possibility and that cannot be it, because KC896 flies every day of the week. There is ample connect time in Dubai and at least one alternative flight to Dubai. I think that the teams were so anxious to get going they worried about leaving first and failed to check on what connecting flight arrives first.


DEL SVO SU534 0215 0615 connecting to SVO ALA KC872 0920 1645

This was one of my alternates and also a route actually used by teams. However, they arrived at 0110+1 when they could have been in Almaty 8.5 hours earlier. What Terence/Sarah took was either SU534 above or SU536 0500 0900 DEL SVO. If the latter,  then they just miss the connection for KC872 above. They then had KC876 2200 0525+1, which puts them in at daylight but does not match the 0110 arrival time stated on ep. 8. I cannot match that.

I had no route through Frankfurt. The episode stated that 3 teams leave on Lufthansa 1320 and arrive in Almaty 2355.
My best FRA routing is LA761 0305 0650 connecting with LH648 1300 0030+1. I have no idea how LH1320 fits into the picture.

All of this would be irrelevant except that teams going through Dubai and arriving at 1740 or through Moscow and arriving 1630 would have been able to just finish the chicken farm task before Hours of Operation there through 2000 ended.


EDITOR's NOTE - I have now fingured out teth Lufthansa situation better due to screencaps provided by puddin. There is no LH1320. The departure time for LH648 was 13:20 (120pm), slightly behind when I reported it leaving. SU536 is also listed on one of those screencaps. It listed the departure time was 0450, which was close to my 0500.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Neobie on November 16, 2008, 11:36:40 PM
Hi Apskip! *what I just said*

Any idea about the Moscow to Almaty flight? Did they have to connect through Astana?
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: puddin on November 17, 2008, 12:13:12 AM
Dan and Andrew spent 17 hours in Dubai, 6am to 11pm they said, if that helps I have no idea, lol
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Chateau d If on November 17, 2008, 01:58:42 AM
Thanks Puddin.  That does help nail down the weirdness of it all.

Teams are released at 10:14, 10:24, 10:43, 11:48 pm, and midnight of May 8th

For the flights to Almaty from Delhi I get this:

Nick & Starr, Toni & Dallas and Ken & Tina leaving May 9th
Take LH761 leaving DEL at 2:25 am and arriving in FRA at 7:10 am
Take LH 648 leaving FRA at 1:20 pm and arriving in ALA at 11:50 pm on May 9th

Terence & Sara leaving May 9th  "It will be landing in Almaty at 1:20 in the night."
Take Aeroflot SU 536 leaving DEL at 4:30 am and arriving in SVO Moscow  at 9:30 am
Take Turkish Ailines TK 1414 leaving SVO at 1:40 pm and arriving in IST Istanbul at 3:55 pm
Take TK 1352  leaving IST at 5:00 pm and arriving in ALA at 1:20 am on May 10th

Dan & Andrew leaving May 9th
Take Emirates EK 513 leaving DEL at 4:15 am and arriving in DXB Dubai at 6:10 am
Take Air Astana KC 898 leaving DXB at 11:15 pm and arriving in ALA at 5:35 am on May 10th

So I definitely agree with Neobie on the extended Pit Stop.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on November 17, 2008, 09:47:23 AM
Sorry, Neobie, I worked on post #205 above  for over an hour and did not look for any other posts in the interim. I doubt that would have changed my mind about the insights I attempted to provide if I had known.

I agree with you and with Chateau that instead of releasing from Delhi on May 7 late evening they did so after a 36 hours extended pitstop the evening of May 8. That makes the Kazakhstan episode on May 9 and departure for and arrival in Moscow on May 10, when we know it is supposed to be.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on November 17, 2008, 10:00:18 AM
FLIGHTS ALMATY TO MOSCOW

The beginning of leg 9 on AR13 is on Saturday May 10. Here are the flights teams can take nonstop Almaty to Moscow-Sheremetyevo:

KC871  ALA SVO  0615 0800
UN206  ALA SVO  0730 0905
KC875  ALA SVO  1855 2045

There are also many combinations, through Astana and elsewhere, but none of them should be needed unless the first two flights above are totally booked.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: puddin on November 25, 2008, 02:46:50 AM
I meant to post this last night, as noted by Nick and the shirt that Starr made for him for his birthday...... which is May 11th if that helps the timeline?
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on November 25, 2008, 08:58:59 AM
AR13 TIMELINE(modified Nov. 25 to take out theoretical flight possibilties and show only real flight choices)

Depending on when they arrive at LAX, teams have choices of 3 flight combinations to Salvador:

4/22, leg 1
teams were directed to:

LAX MIA AA252 1355 2142 connecting in Miami with MIA GIG 2310 1050+1 connecting Rio de Janeiro with GIG SSA G31600 1115 1220

LAX GRU UA843 1405 1005+1 with a stop in ORD from 2005 to 2132 connecting in Sao Paulo with GRU SSA JJ3154 1200 1425

tasks in Salvador; then Hours of Operation(sleeping in a tent at an army base to await staggered transportation)

4/23 tasks in Salvador

4/24  We know the elevator task in Salvador is this morning followed soon after by a pitstop.

4/25 leg 2,  choices of flight from Salvador to Fortaleza was:
SSA FOR G31642 0645 0945
followed by tasks in Fortzaleza that are complete around 1pm or slightly later;
36 Hour extended pitstop in Fortaleza ends 4/27 from about 1am to about a half hour later

4/26 pitstop continued

4/27 leg 3   FOR LPB  JJ3325  FOR GRU 0730 1130 connecting in Sao Paulo with 5L301  GRU VVI  1600 1730, then connecting in Santa Cruz with 5L211 VVI LPB 1900 2000 then teams get from Lapaz airport to outdoor sleeping area

4/28 tasks in Bolivia starting around 7am;
36 hour extended pitstop

4/29 pitstop continued

4/30  pitstop release just after midnight; start of leg 4
LAN 965  LPN SCL through Iquique  1245 1745 or
5L300  LPB VVI  0715 0815 connecting SantaCruz to 5L210  VVI EZE  1015 1500 connecting Buenos Aires to LA450  EZE SCL  1550 1710

LAN801  2245 0355+2  SCL AKL, the trans-South Pacific Crossing

5/2 leg 4
Teams do tasks on the North Island of New Zealand from 4am until pitstop checkin from 1030am until about 7pm.

5/3 and 5/4, leg 5
Teams return with a 2 hour drive to Auckland International Airport and fly out in multiple bunches from early afternoon until midnight. Choices of routes from AKL to REP (Siem Reap) are:

AKL SYD QF114 1350 1510 connecting with QF319 SYD SIN 1635 2145 and then 3K595 SIN REP 0600+1 0700+1
 
AKL BNE  EK433  1655 1835 this then continues on the same flight to Singapore with BNE SIN  EK433  2045 0150+1 and then SIN REP  3K595  0600+1 0700+1

Another route is AKL MEL 1300 1500 NZ2725  or 1615 1815 QF134

One late team(Aja/Ty) on AKL SIN  2355 0645  SQ282 connecting there with SIN BKK  SQ970  0845 1010 then BKK REP  PG905  1100 1220

5/4 continued
tasks in Siem Reap area, then extended 36 hour pitstop

5/5,
pitstop

5/6 start of leg 6
Siem Reap to Bangkok airport
PG904 REP BKK 0950 1045 .

Choice of this nonstop flights from BKK to DEL:
IC854 BKK DEL 1330 1615

arrival into downtown Delhi would be around 1800.

5/7
Delhi tasks and start of pitstop(either 12 or 36 hour)

5/8 or 5/9 leg 7 begins, Delhi area tasks;
pitstop (either 36 or 12 hour, the opposite of the length of the 5/7 pitstop)

5/9 leg 8 begins in the afternoon; Delhi to Almaty Kazakhstan
there were 3 different routes chosen, inexplicable to me based on what should have been an easy connection through Dubai that would have arrived at 1630:
Nick/Starr, Toni/Dallas and Ken/Tina
DEL FRA  LH761  0225 0710 connects FRA ALA  LH648  1320 2350

Dan/Andrew
DEL DXB  EK513 0415 0630 connects DXB ALA  KC898 2255 0515

Terence/Sarah
DEL SVO  SU536  0430-0930 connects with TK1414 SVO IST 1350 1555 connects with TK1352 IST  1725 0150+1

5/10 Almaty area tasks; pitstop

5/11 leg 9 begins; fly KC871 ALA SVO 0615 0800;
tasks in Moscow area;
extended 36 hour pitstop

5/12 pitstop continued

5/13 leg 10 begins; tasks in Moscow area; regular pitstop

5/14 leg 11, the FINISH LINE in The Rose City, Portland Oregon
0705 0825 LH3189  DME FRA
0945 1120 LH468  FRA PDX, then tasks until FINISH LINE

For any teams who are too late (due to retrieval of lost documents or due to not having enough money for the taxi ride) to make the 0705 flight, then the next best alternative is the combination
KL3105 SVO AMS 1010 1200 connecting with KL6033 AMS SEA  KL8067 1315 1435 connecting with SEA PDX 1600 1650

The connections on this flight are reasonably tight, so there is no possiblity of any other flights on the same routes to shave time. It starts 3 hours after LH3189 and it has one more connection, causing on-time arrival in Portland to be 5.5 hours behind LH648.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: georgiapeach on November 25, 2008, 11:38:37 AM
Quote
5/11 leg 9 begins; fly Almaty to Astana KC871 ALA SVO 0615 0800;
tasks;
extended 36 hour pitstop

Where did Moscow go??

But this is great! Those flights almost certainly could explain seeing D/A in Portland around 6...
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: apskip on November 25, 2008, 04:00:34 PM
Quote
5/11 leg 9 begins; fly Almaty to Astana KC871 ALA SVO 0615 0800;
tasks;
extended 36 hour pitstop

Where did Moscow go??

But this is great! Those flights almost certainly could explain seeing D/A in Portland around 6...
Peach, don't get excited, as what you have found was an instance of prior information not being deleted from my timeline as it should have. Flight KC671 is nonstop Almaty to Moscow-Sheremetyevo.
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Chateau d If on December 02, 2008, 12:44:48 AM
Let me know about any boo boos:  Part One
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Chateau d If on December 02, 2008, 12:48:40 AM
Part Two
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Chateau d If on December 02, 2008, 12:51:08 AM
Part Three
Title: Re: Timetables and Flight Information
Post by: Chateau d If on December 02, 2008, 12:53:16 AM
Part Four