The Amazing Race > The Racers

TAR 22: Idries & Jamil Abdur-Rahman "Twin OB/GYN's"

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RyanBres24:
Interesting. I never fully understood medicine and religious combinations. Why is a hospital "Catholic"? If it was a separate private practicing-Catholicism organization, different story, but as a healthcare entity they definitely can't discriminate in hiring...my guess is, considering they're already doctors, they don't really care that much about not getting hired and it's a money grab.

georgiapeach:

--- Quote from: RyanBres24 on March 06, 2014, 01:11:33 PM ---Interesting. I never fully understood medicine and religious combinations. Why is a hospital "Catholic"? If it was a separate private practicing-Catholicism organization, different story, but as a healthcare entity they definitely can't discriminate in hiring...my guess is, considering they're already doctors, they don't really care that much about not getting hired and it's a money grab.

--- End quote ---

Since US healthcare can be a difficult thing to understand, and it is clear from your comment that you have some significant misunderstanding of the systems, I think we will leave this on the table from here on out. We do not get into religious or political debates at RFF. No further comments please.

Thanks.

RyanBres24:

--- Quote from: georgiapeach on March 06, 2014, 04:20:18 PM ---
--- Quote from: RyanBres24 on March 06, 2014, 01:11:33 PM ---Interesting. I never fully understood medicine and religious combinations. Why is a hospital "Catholic"? If it was a separate private practicing-Catholicism organization, different story, but as a healthcare entity they definitely can't discriminate in hiring...my guess is, considering they're already doctors, they don't really care that much about not getting hired and it's a money grab.

--- End quote ---

Since US healthcare can be a difficult thing to understand, and it is clear from your comment that you have some significant misunderstanding of the systems, I think we will leave this on the table from here on out. We do not get into religious or political debates at RFF. No further comments please.

Thanks.

--- End quote ---

Understood about not getting into things. But I am American and do work in a healthcare setting actually, so I found that comment to be a little offensive :/ And if discussion on the matter isn't promoted, that's understandable too, but then I believe the post with the article in it should be deleted.

georgiapeach:
Tell you what.  You read what Jamil actually sent to his patients, then perhaps you will understand a little better. This was never a "money-grab".


Jamil Abdur-Rahman
 ·

--- Quote --- Thanks everybody for this page and for your kind words of support. My
brother and I really wanted to have an opportunity to speak with our patients
directly either in person, by phone or by letter rather than to have them hear
about our future plans from other people. But we understand that word spreads
quickly. The last 7 years here in Ottawa/Streator have been great. You all have
allowed us to care for you and for many of your unborn children and we are so
grateful for the trust that you all have shown in us. It has made every long day
and every sleepless night away from our own families worth it. Being your doctor
has given my life meaning and made both my brother and I feel like we were
really making a difference. When we first decided to come to Ottawa in 2006 a
lot of our friends and colleagues back home in Chicago told us that we were
crazy. They said that two black guys with funny names from the city would never
be accepted "in the country". Well clearly they were wrong. You guys accepted us
with open arms and both my brother and I and our families are proud to now call
La Salle County home. Just as early as March of this year my wife and I were
making plans to build a home along Route 71 and we envisioned ourselves staying
here in La Salle County for a long long time. Unfortunately with the acquisition
of Ottawa Regional Hospital by OSF in May of this year things did change for
doctors and patients alike. OSF St. Elizabeth's Hospital (as Ottawa Regional
Hospital is now known) is now a Catholic hospital and like all Catholic
hospitals in the United States it is a church ministry first and a hospital
second. This is no slight on OSF, it is just a fact. As such OSF is governed by
a set of rules called the ERD's (i.e. the Ethical and Religious Directives).
These rules are published by the U.S. Council of Catholic Bishops and they can
be found on the web at http://www.usccb.org/about/doctrine/ethical-and-religious-directives/.
Everybody should take some time to read these rules. These rules tell doctors
caring for patients at Catholic hospitals what medical services they can and
cannot provide for their patients based on Catholic religious doctrine. For
example the ERD's do not allow doctors on staff at OSF hospitals to perform
tubal ligations or vasectomies at those hospitals. They also don't allow doctors
employed by OSF (like those at the Ottawa Medical Center) to prescribed birth
control. They also do not allow Ob/Gyn's like my brother and I (even though we
are in private practice and not employed by the hospital) to treat ectopic
pregnancies at an OSF hospital if the baby has a heartbeat, even if doing so
would save the mother’s life. And so after OSF acquired the hospital and it
became OSF St. Elizabeth's Hospital things changed for our patients and for us.
Obviously my brother and I expressed some concerns to the hospital
administration about these changes and about how they would affect our patients
because OSF St. Elizabeth’s is the only hospital in Ottawa. At the same time my
brother and I did agreed to follow the rules imposed by the U.S. Council of
Catholic Bishops because we felt that as private practice doctors we could just
provide services no longer available at Ottawa at other hospitals (i.e. Morris
and Peru). Unfortunately because we choose to take some of our patients to other
hospitals the OSF administration expressed to my brother and I that they felt
that we were not "OSF team players". They also stated that they felt that my
brother and I might not be able to continue following the ERD's in the future
and that they therefore could not do anything for us to make continuing to
practice here in Ottawa after OSF acquired the hospital easier. Since we don't
work for the hospital they cannot fire us and they even said that they wanted us
to stay because we bring a lot of patients to the hospital for care.
Unfortunately when the OSF administration tells you that they cannot or will not
do anything to make continuing to practice in Ottawa easy for you because they
feel that you are not a team player or because they feel that you are not likely
to follow the rules imposed on the hospital and on the community by the U.S.
Council of Catholic Bishops, then they are telling you that they will not
support you in the future. If your hospital does not have your back as a doctor
who cares for their patients then continuing to practice at that hospital is too
dangerous for you as a doctor and this was a consideration my brother and I had
to keep in mind. One never knows what the future holds, but as things stand
right now it is too difficult for my brother and I to continue practicing here.
As always it is our goal to ensure that ALL of our patients are getting the very
best care possible even if we are not practicing in this area and so we will
advise all of our patients either by letter or on our website of where they can
go to continue getting good medical care. We’ve been in conversation with
doctors in Morris and Peru and they’ve agreed to see our patients when and if my
brother and I leave La Salle County. Again my brother and I REALLY appreciate
all of your support and kind words. You guys are GREAT and you deserve the best
medical care possible. We’ve tried our best to provide this over the last 7
years and to fight for you and for what is right. Please feel free to share your
feelings with OSF administration, they are always happy to hear from the people
they are here to serve. You can contact Dr. Gerald McShane (President and CEO of
the OSF Medical Group) at 5114 Glen Park Place, Suite 220, Peoria Illinois
61614, 309-683-8100, Sister Judith Ann Duvall (Chairperson of OSF Healthcare)
800 NE Glen Oak Ave, Peoria Illinois 61614, 309-655-2850, Kevin Schoeplein (CEO
of OSF Healthcare) 800 NE Glen Oak Ave, Peoria Illinois 61614 and Robert Chaffin
(CEO of OSF St. Elizabeth’s Hospital) 1100 East Norris Drive, Ottawa Illinois
61350.



--- End quote ---

RyanBres24:
Well that's certainly much more helpful, thank you! I would never have targeted the brothers for JUST a money grab, but because this is a message board, forum, and a place for discussion, I was asking the person who posted the article for more background information. The majority of healthcare institutions in the United States are not founded or funded on the grounds of religious affiliations (I believe the last article I saw in 2013 on the topic indicated about 10-13% of just hospitals have some type of affiliation) - even if they are, they are obviously not permitted to not hire someone or not treat a patient based on any type of discrimination, so their case more than has enough merit (my comment was that sometimes you just wonder if people like doctors, lawyers..that upper pay grade do certain things just to rake in more money. After reading Jamil's statement, which provides much more detail about their positioning than does the article initially posted, clearly that wasn't the case!)

Once again, if discussion on this topic of the brother's lawsuit case isn't promoted here, then Jobby's post/article should be deleted and all subsequent posts. If it is promoted, and your comment was just about the religious talk, I was certainly not headed in that direction, just inquiring for more information (which your last post provides, and I appreciate immensely  :hrt:) Apologies for the tone my first post might have taken, didn't mean offense by it, I just see this kind of thing all the time from health practitioners and just because the brothers are seemingly nice guys and TAR Alums doesn't make them immune to people inquiring why they're doing what they're doing. Glad to see they stick up for the members of their community, especially since that's the only hospital in Ottawa, IL, apparently!

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