Author Topic: Unanswered Questions from Unfinished Business  (Read 2503 times)

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Offline ryanmissing27

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Unanswered Questions from Unfinished Business
« on: June 19, 2012, 06:37:18 AM »
I'm sure this has been raised before and talked about in depth already but I really want to bring up one major discrepancy that has struck me from the gnomegate incident of TAR18...
Kent and Vyxsin received their penalty for taking the wrong type of transport from the final task (the chocolate gnomes) to the pitstop.
Compare with the following two cases, strangely both from TAR13:
1. Bolivia: Mark and Bill receive a penalty for taking the wrong type of transport during the leg.
2. Kazakhstan: Dan and Andrew take the wrong type of transport from the final task to the pitstop and are unable to check in until they have rectified their mistake.
That's the bottom line, should not have Kent and Vyxsin had to leave the pit stop and return on foot? Was something stopping them from doing so (safety, weather, whatever)? Or did they have a choice between do over or penalty?
I'm not saying that it would have helped them, I guess we may never know but the series of events from that leg have definitely stirred some murky waters...


Offline Jobby

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Re: Unanswered Questions from Unfinished Business
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2012, 02:33:39 PM »
No, if the clue instructed them to walk to the pitstop and they take a taxi, it's always a 30 minutes penalty. As with Mark and Bill, Michael and Kevin and a few other teams (Heather and Eve) who made the same mistake.

However, I do not know in terms of Dan and Andrew, why instead of a 30 minutes penalty they were told to go back and rectify their mistake. Maybe it take more than 30 minutes, maybe there was some safety rules or whatsoever...

But in Kent and Vyxsin case, it was always that way.. what we should look into is why D/A were never awarded the 30 minutes penalty. It might have kept Terence and Sarah in the race, now that you mention it.
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Offline bcp19

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Re: Unanswered Questions from Unfinished Business
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2012, 03:09:28 PM »
While I could be wrong, I always thought it was a 30 min penalty(plus time gained?) if it occurred somewhere in the middle of the leg, but they could not check in if it was from the last marker to the pit stop.  Mark and Bill took a cab to the detour, which was in the middle of the leg, while Dan and Andrew took one to the Pitstop. 

Offline Prophet

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Re: Unanswered Questions from Unfinished Business
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2012, 08:57:13 PM »
I think they almost always use the time penalty and I also remember something about the time gained aspect.

As far as Dandrew I would like to know WRP's reasons for that punishment but I think they were just the luckiest team in TAR history :lol: Who knows how they survived each time?
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Offline apskip

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Re: Unanswered Questions from Unfinished Business
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2012, 10:00:00 PM »
I think they almost always use the time penalty and I also remember something about the time gained aspect.

As far as Dandrew I would like to know WRP's reasons for that punishment but I think they were just the luckiest team in TAR history :lol: Who knows how they survived each time?

Remember Heather and Eve! They were penalized 30 minutes plus the 7 minutes they gained from taking the taxi. This was to the pitstop the Tower of Belem Lisbon Portugal in AR3.


Offline Prophet

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Re: Unanswered Questions from Unfinished Business
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2012, 09:11:31 PM »
You have quite the encyclopedic memory of TAR events apskip :tup:
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Re: Unanswered Questions from Unfinished Business
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2012, 10:30:44 PM »
Yes, it's always thirty minutes and the time gained. But it might have changed over the years. Michael and Kevin were only given 2 thirty minutes penalty if I didn't remember wrongly.

It seems the penalty for the mode of transport taken may also be different. In season 9, Lake and Michelle and Ray and Yolanda both took the bus instead of the train as stated in one of their clues for the leg. They were only given a 15mins penalty and not 30??

I still want to know why Dan and Andrew weren't given a 30 mins penalty. That could have saved my favourite team of the season Terence and Sarah and pushed them to the finale... and then we may have a 3 way exciting finale between T/S, N/S and K/T!
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Offline Zack.

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Re: Unanswered Questions from Unfinished Business
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2012, 12:26:40 PM »
If I remember the TAR9 situation correctly, the teams that took the bus lost 15 minutes in doing this, hence why they only received a 15 minute penalty.

Michael/Kevin and Mark/Bill both screwed up in the middle of the leg so I don't think WRP could figure out how much time was 'gained'.

WRP Dan/Andrew, wasn't part of the issue that they also forgot their cow thing from the Detour? Since the clue specified that they had to bring something from either Detour, forgetting it would be the same as not checking in with all required items (passports, the chicken of TAR 12, the charm of TAR 10) and in all of those instances they were asked to get their stuff and come back.

(Regarding Terence/Sarah possibly surviving...it's probably better for the season that they hadn't. In order to get to Almaty they connected through Moscow, which I suspect would constitute the single 'use' of their visa in their passports. If they survived, then T/S would've probably been stuck in Almaty, which gives us a final three right at the start of leg 9. Then it becomes a matter of if they run the legs in Russia, in what capacity they're going to run the legs in Russia, how they're going to deal with Toni/Dallas and the passport issue, etc. We might have had a final two for the first time.)

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Re: Unanswered Questions from Unfinished Business
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2012, 12:59:41 PM »
I think WRP would have something else in stall? Can't be they use their single use of visa and can't do something else about it? :tantrum
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Offline bcp19

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Re: Unanswered Questions from Unfinished Business
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2012, 05:29:05 PM »
If I remember the TAR9 situation correctly, the teams that took the bus lost 15 minutes in doing this, hence why they only received a 15 minute penalty.

Michael/Kevin and Mark/Bill both screwed up in the middle of the leg so I don't think WRP could figure out how much time was 'gained'.

WRP Dan/Andrew, wasn't part of the issue that they also forgot their cow thing from the Detour? Since the clue specified that they had to bring something from either Detour, forgetting it would be the same as not checking in with all required items (passports, the chicken of TAR 12, the charm of TAR 10) and in all of those instances they were asked to get their stuff and come back.

(Regarding Terence/Sarah possibly surviving...it's probably better for the season that they hadn't. In order to get to Almaty they connected through Moscow, which I suspect would constitute the single 'use' of their visa in their passports. If they survived, then T/S would've probably been stuck in Almaty, which gives us a final three right at the start of leg 9. Then it becomes a matter of if they run the legs in Russia, in what capacity they're going to run the legs in Russia, how they're going to deal with Toni/Dallas and the passport issue, etc. We might have had a final two for the first time.)
Tina and Frank? were the ones that forgot the cow, Dandrew left their shoes behind


Offline Dånooky

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Re: Unanswered Questions from Unfinished Business
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2012, 10:32:37 PM »
I invoke for precedent, Season 12, Leg 6: Nathan & Jennifer initially arrived 2nd, but did not take legal transportation to the Pit Stop. They were asked to go back to the end of the Detour and take a taxi back to the Pit Stop. Kynt & Vyxsin checked in during that time period, dropping them to 3rd.

This leads me to assume that there was a correction in the rules in a period between seasons 4 and 17 where if you screwed up right before the Pit Stop (as in, the last action you did) you were allowed to backtrack and rectify instead of being penalized. The penalty applies directly to a mistake that is not rectifiable, like taking wrong transportation in the middle of the leg.

I think this can be further evidenced by Season 17, Leg 8: Brook and Claire took a taxi to the Tower to the Church of the Savior on Blood. But when they found it the clue told them to walk, they asked their cab driver to go back to the Bank Bridge to 1 Vladimirsky Prospekt Tower and performed the task correctly. They checked in the mat in 2nd place without Phil giving them a 30-minute penalty.

I would like to refer to this as the Ctrl-Z principle. If you can immediately undo your mistake, you may do so to avoid penalties. I assume that for KV's case in UB, the rules were revised.
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Offline Dom

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Re: Unanswered Questions from Unfinished Business
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2012, 01:35:52 AM »
In order to get to Almaty they connected through Moscow, which I suspect would constitute the single 'use' of their visa in their passports.

I don't know if Russia has any special rules, but as far as I know, you don't need a visa to visit any airport in the world. As long as you don't leave the airport, you're free to land anywhere.

Online georgiapeach

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Re: Unanswered Questions from Unfinished Business
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2012, 01:46:50 AM »
Because Terence and Sarah transitted in Moscow, they effectively DID use their visa, it was considered an "entry".

So had they survived, either WRP would have had to do some emergency work to get them another visa or the leg would have had to be relocated...both unlikely.

So they would have been unable to reenter on the visa they had, and probably would have been forced to stop racing....
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Offline Dånooky

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Re: Unanswered Questions from Unfinished Business
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2012, 03:13:01 AM »
In order to get to Almaty they connected through Moscow, which I suspect would constitute the single 'use' of their visa in their passports.

I don't know if Russia has any special rules, but as far as I know, you don't need a visa to visit any airport in the world. As long as you don't leave the airport, you're free to land anywhere.
Rules changed in the US recently. It used to be that you could transit in the US without a visa (for countries requiring it for entry) as long as you stayed confined in one room during your layover. However, nowadays you need a tourist visa even if it's just for transit purposes. I'm assuming there's something similar in other countries.
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Re: Unanswered Questions from Unfinished Business
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2012, 03:22:33 PM »
Because Terence and Sarah transitted in Moscow, they effectively DID use their visa, it was considered an "entry".

So had they survived, either WRP would have had to do some emergency work to get them another visa or the leg would have had to be relocated...both unlikely.

So they would have been unable to reenter on the visa they had, and probably would have been forced to stop racing....

It seems really odd that TPTB didn't keep them from connecting via Moscow for that reason. If they had survived and gotten stuck in Russia it would have been productions fault because they knew where they were going next but the teams didn't. They got really lucky...
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Offline ryanmissing27

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Re: Unanswered Questions from Unfinished Business
« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2012, 09:30:20 AM »
The whole russian visa issue has intrigued me since i found out about it a while ago
maybe because they had used their visa Terence and Sarah HAD to come last, perhaps they even arrived before Dandrew but had to stage their elimination. But that's just my crazy conspiracy theory.
Had they survived perhaps the race might have taken a different route, as in used back up countries instead of russia, this in turn could lead to Toni and Dallas not losing their passports...
Has the route ever been changed on such short notice before?

Online georgiapeach

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Re: Unanswered Questions from Unfinished Business
« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2012, 12:47:24 PM »
The whole russian visa issue has intrigued me since i found out about it a while ago
maybe because they had used their visa Terence and Sarah HAD to come last, perhaps they even arrived before Dandrew but had to stage their elimination. But that's just my crazy conspiracy theory.

I can tell you 1000% that was NOT the case.

And I believe teams had been told NOT to transit via Moscow...but am not a 100% sure about that? :duno:
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Offline redskevin88

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Re: Unanswered Questions from Unfinished Business
« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2012, 03:12:07 AM »
The whole russian visa issue has intrigued me since i found out about it a while ago
maybe because they had used their visa Terence and Sarah HAD to come last, perhaps they even arrived before Dandrew but had to stage their elimination. But that's just my crazy conspiracy theory.
Had they survived perhaps the race might have taken a different route, as in used back up countries instead of russia, this in turn could lead to Toni and Dallas not losing their passports...
Has the route ever been changed on such short notice before?

TAR 19. One of the two Thailand legs (or one of them I'm not sure) had to be re-arranged in the last minute.

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Re: Unanswered Questions from Unfinished Business
« Reply #18 on: July 06, 2012, 04:40:49 AM »
I invoke for precedent, Season 12, Leg 6: Nathan & Jennifer initially arrived 2nd, but did not take legal transportation to the Pit Stop. They were asked to go back to the end of the Detour and take a taxi back to the Pit Stop. Kynt & Vyxsin checked in during that time period, dropping them to 3rd.

This leads me to assume that there was a correction in the rules in a period between seasons 4 and 17 where if you screwed up right before the Pit Stop (as in, the last action you did) you were allowed to backtrack and rectify instead of being penalized. The penalty applies directly to a mistake that is not rectifiable, like taking wrong transportation in the middle of the leg.

I think this can be further evidenced by Season 17, Leg 8: Brook and Claire took a taxi to the Tower to the Church of the Savior on Blood. But when they found it the clue told them to walk, they asked their cab driver to go back to the Bank Bridge to 1 Vladimirsky Prospekt Tower and performed the task correctly. They checked in the mat in 2nd place without Phil giving them a 30-minute penalty.

I would like to refer to this as the Ctrl-Z principle. If you can immediately undo your mistake, you may do so to avoid penalties. I assume that for KV's case in UB, the rules were revised.

I think this is the case as well. The Terence and Sarah part... I still think they got lucky that they got eliminated first otherwise production might have to answer to their elimination? :duno:
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