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Offline racer

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Finale Legs
« on: December 09, 2013, 09:30:31 PM »
Wanted to create a thread to talk about finale legs and how awful they have invariably been recently. Most of them since TAR15 have been extremely linear - whoever takes the early lead wins (with a couple of notable exceptions).

Worse than that is the amount of luck tasks they keep putting in. I can't stand luck tasks on finales, since the winner of a million dollars should earn it, not fluke it. Good examples of this are:

TAR22 - Max & Katie lost on a pure luck challenge which gave Bates & Anthony an insurmountable lead.

TAR23 - Two luck challenges in that finale. Amy hits the target in a fluke and they get a huge lead since nobody else gets lucky. The ice wall with the clues was also entirely luck but fortunately didn't seem to have a major effect.

Then there are other finales with just awful tasks that are really random for a finale. Examples:

TAR16 - None of the tasks allowed anyone to catch up even though the cowboys ran a good leg and almost did. It was over before it started.

TAR18 - Very happy with the outcome of this season, but assemble a caravan for a million bucks? -_-

TAR19 - Flight simulator and typing? Seriously? -____________--Amani & Marcus lost the race because they couldn't play a video game. :cmas11

TAR20 - A good finale because of the suspense and closeness, but in reality the tasks were just random.

TAR22 - Take a photo? Luck task at the Tidal Basin... Dress up as a giant ball and catch a ball? -___________-

TAR23 - Pointless luck tasks, no chance of order changing unless someone majorly screws up the currencies.

I just think they need to be a lot more creative with task design on finales (look at pretty much anything before TAR15) and remove the luck tasks from finales. They have no place there and should be consigned to the first 11 legs.
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Offline jetishidae

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Re: Finale Legs
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2013, 09:52:03 PM »
that is why a lot of finale legs are anti-climatic
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Offline ovalorange

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Re: Finale Legs
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2013, 10:36:47 PM »
Completely agree, something needs to be done to fix these finale legs. Ever since TAR15, they've been absolutely atrocious and sucked any excitement out of the episode.

The finales got a lot better since TAR12, once they decided to host it all in one final destination city. But recently, the actual tasks have dragged the whole finales down.. as there's always been one tasks which either kills one teams chances or gives one team a massive lead which they ride to the finish line. Like jetishidae said, it kills any of the suspense left in the episode.

I think the major problem is that the placement order is solely decided by one task and usually, it's cropped up right at the very start of the leg. There needs to be a chance for the teams behind to catch up and potentially overtake the other teams. And no, luck tasks dont fix this, they only spread the teams out further.

Get rid of the luck tasks, get rid of the tasks that have teams wait for the people ahead of them to finish and get rid of the linear tasks. And while you're at it, you might as well make things actually relevant to the finale city -- nobody wants to see the caravans of Florida or the nonexistent president in DC. I'm sure most people here could design a better finale leg than the ones been used recently, it's a joke.

This final leg needs to be HARD to really test the teams and make them earn that win. But how can you expect them to work for that million when they've been screwed over by linear, luck and take a number driven tasks? If the winners are going to be determined by the final leg, at least give multiple opportunities to change the teams placements, to ensure that the team who wins actually ran the best leg and not just finished one task first.

Offline racer

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Re: Finale Legs
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2013, 10:37:44 PM »
Very much agree with both. They're just carelessly designed these days... :cmas11
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Offline Leafsfan

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Re: Finale Legs
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2013, 10:38:05 PM »
awk
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Offline Airlines

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Re: Finale Legs
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2013, 10:38:39 PM »
I agree with everything that has been said.  You don't simply put luck tasks/tasks that enable people to get ridiculously ahead on the single most important leg of the race. -_-
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Offline SamualDude

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Re: Finale Legs
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2013, 10:56:40 PM »
Luck based tasks have no place on the final leg, I do like how in recent seasons they've just been in one city for that leg unlike the first 11 seasons where there was 2 cities visited in the US. Some of the cities that housed the finish deserve proper finale legs such as Phoenix, Dallas, Chicago etc.

Also please don't have a finale leg in a city that has had one before. Don't get me wrong, I like the final city of Season 24 but it was already visited a few years ago. Not sure if enough time has passed for it to get another final leg. Give it to a place like New Orleans, Boston, Philadelphia, Houston and so forth.
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Offline theamazingracer21

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Re: Finale Legs
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2013, 11:14:53 PM »
I totally agree with everything said.

On another note, what does everyone think about taxis in the final leg? I am a massive NO for final leg taxis. No one should win based on luck and taxis are the luck of he draw. I think TAR17 didn't Jill & Tom get a bad taxi which stuffed up any chance of winning.
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Offline SamualDude

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Re: Finale Legs
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2013, 11:23:46 PM »
I totally agree with everything said.

On another note, what does everyone think about taxis in the final leg? I am a massive NO for final leg taxis. No one should win based on luck and taxis are the luck of he draw. I think TAR17 didn't Jill & Tom get a bad taxi which stuffed up any chance of winning.

Taxis are just a part of racing in the end. I mean if you get to a city that one team lives in but the others don't in a self driving finale then they have a major advantage over the others but taxis can cost you the race as it did indeed do in TAR 17 with Jill & Tom and arguably in TAR 14 with Jamie & Cara. Jill & Tom had a more devastating defeat though but that's for another thread.
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Offline Mug Costanza

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Re: Finale Legs
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2013, 11:51:26 PM »
The only I disagree with in this thread so far is racer calling the flour drop task in the TAR23 finale a luck task. It was lucky that Amy got it so quickly, but after doing it for so long, teams should have gotten a feel for it. It shouldn't have taken Nicole 21 tries (or however many it was) to get it right.


Offline racer

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Re: Finale Legs
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2013, 12:04:52 AM »
Taxis are hard to control - I think that's the one element that is difficult to do anything about, so I don't mind taxis on finales.

The only I disagree with in this thread so far is racer calling the flour drop task in the TAR23 finale a luck task. It was lucky that Amy got it so quickly, but after doing it for so long, teams should have gotten a feel for it. It shouldn't have taken Nicole 21 tries (or however many it was) to get it right.

I think it was essentially a luck of the draw thing. It didn't require any skill and everything from the speed of the plane, its altitude at the time and to the wind speed at the time would have a huge effect on the descent of the flour which teams have no control over.
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Offline Mug Costanza

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Re: Finale Legs
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2013, 12:09:50 AM »
The only I disagree with in this thread so far is racer calling the flour drop task in the TAR23 finale a luck task. It was lucky that Amy got it so quickly, but after doing it for so long, teams should have gotten a feel for it. It shouldn't have taken Nicole 21 tries (or however many it was) to get it right.

I think it was essentially a luck of the draw thing. It didn't require any skill and everything from the speed of the plane, its altitude at the time and to the wind speed at the time would have a huge effect on the descent of the flour which teams have no control over.

I'll give you wind speed. That's a good point. But I would have to believe that the pilots were instructed to be consistent in their speed and altitude, right? They must have had a few practice runs before the teams got there. I would hope that as meticulous as WRP is, they wouldn't let the pilots get away with being inconsistent. :duno:

Offline Karpov617

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Re: Finale Legs
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2013, 12:22:53 AM »
 :cmas11 Exactly what specific tasks that have happened are finale leg worthy?

I think that the tasks for the finales look like they are either skill tasks that doesn't change the order of the teams because they are relatively "easy", and skill tasks that turn into "luck" tasks because they become a wee bit difficult for the teams, like the Hello/Goodbye task in TAR21 (which I loved). Also, there are only three teams and only so much shuffling could happen, especially if all teams have their paces set at "fast".

P.S. I honestly thought that Jet & Cord (not a fan) had a chance of winning since they did catch up with Dan & Jordan. The cowboys were just literally blocked from progressing through the game simulation task by the brothers. :mas25

Offline maf

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Re: Finale Legs
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2013, 01:13:40 AM »
I'll give you wind speed. That's a good point. But I would have to believe that the pilots were instructed to be consistent in their speed and altitude, right? They must have had a few practice runs before the teams got there. I would hope that as meticulous as WRP is, they wouldn't let the pilots get away with being inconsistent. :duno:

Didn't you all notice the big wind sock by the target. So teams could use that to see the wind. I therefore disagree with the notion that this was a pure luck-based task.

But I very much agree that luck-based tasks have no place in the finale.

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Re: Finale Legs
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2013, 01:35:44 AM »
I really liked this finale.

The first RB, could have been better, and the glacier thing was really linear (no time win or loss between teams). The Lucky Ice Clues was not that bad. It has to do with luck, but also in how hard you work it to read more or less clues in a specified period of time.

The rowing, OK, would have liked to see some team struggle, but OK.

The final challenge was <3 something none of hs never thought about, and which is really a coordination task, as well as a memory challenge.
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Offline racer

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Re: Finale Legs
« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2013, 02:36:58 AM »
I'll give you wind speed. That's a good point. But I would have to believe that the pilots were instructed to be consistent in their speed and altitude, right? They must have had a few practice runs before the teams got there. I would hope that as meticulous as WRP is, they wouldn't let the pilots get away with being inconsistent. :duno:

Didn't you all notice the big wind sock by the target. So teams could use that to see the wind. I therefore disagree with the notion that this was a pure luck-based task.

But I very much agree that luck-based tasks have no place in the finale.

While that's true, I highly doubt any team would be able to learn how to interpret that without several attempts, unless they were wind-reading experts...
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Offline racer

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Re: Finale Legs
« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2013, 02:42:58 AM »
The only I disagree with in this thread so far is racer calling the flour drop task in the TAR23 finale a luck task. It was lucky that Amy got it so quickly, but after doing it for so long, teams should have gotten a feel for it. It shouldn't have taken Nicole 21 tries (or however many it was) to get it right.

I think it was essentially a luck of the draw thing. It didn't require any skill and everything from the speed of the plane, its altitude at the time and to the wind speed at the time would have a huge effect on the descent of the flour which teams have no control over.

I'll give you wind speed. That's a good point. But I would have to believe that the pilots were instructed to be consistent in their speed and altitude, right? They must have had a few practice runs before the teams got there. I would hope that as meticulous as WRP is, they wouldn't let the pilots get away with being inconsistent. :duno:

I would assume so but a slight discrepancy would have a major effect on the trajectory... :cmas24
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Offline amazing1604

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Re: Finale Legs
« Reply #17 on: December 10, 2013, 06:54:29 PM »

TAR22 - Take a photo? Luck task at the Tidal Basin... Dress up as a giant ball and catch a ball? -___________-


TAR 22 has a great memory task although the task wasn't highlighted by the productions. It could be really interesting.

Offline SteKay

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Re: Finale Legs
« Reply #18 on: December 10, 2013, 07:27:04 PM »
TAR20 - a great finale cannot fault it.

TAR19 - The right winners <3 the memory challenge was good and the tasks different

TAR22 - Worst finale on memory. Terrible memory task, terrible extra tasks. The switchback was lame.

TAR23 - Memory challenge was great, RB was good, should've been another task after the canoeing.

What needs to be done? Just look at TARC finale. 1 season and they aced it with a DIFFICULT memory task. There has to be more tasks than any other leg. 2 memory tasks,  roadblock(s) and something physical.

I LOVE luck tasks on any other leg, but not here. I also think it takes GREAT teams to make a GREAT finale. Tbh F3 teams since TAR21 have been... yeah... (Minus Marie)

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Offline supah

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Re: Finale Legs
« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2014, 06:35:35 AM »
Thought I would bring this back after the TAR24 finale.

Despite the horrid (but very deserving) winners, it's evident that the leg was designed to keep teams close together since in recent seasons, teams drift apart from the beginning and the winner is determined early on. I think this finale was designed to rule out any chance of big gaps between teams (which is what we wanted), and it seems as though not many of us were fans of TAR24's Las Vegas ending? I admire that the producers have taken our advice, but thinking of it now, is it really worth the linear challenges to have a tight finish? Keep in mind when these legs are designed, the outcome is not designed as well, it's all luck and chance.

I think the David Copperfield challenge was a nice touch (and probably required a lot of organising) but it wasn't all that challenging, I think it was more for the entertainment factor but fair enough because the show needs as many viewers as possible! I thought the Neon Boneyard was a SUPER cool location and wish they had a challenge there! I thought the light bulb challenge was great - it looked easy on TV, but being that high up in the air, doing a challenge that hasn't really been done before and having to count along the way? Sounds meh, but considering challenges we've had in recent finales, I thought it was stellar. Of course the skydiving wasn't the best way to end a race, since no one had a significant fear of heights, but you've got to cut the producers some slack for trying something new?!

Overall, it wasn't the best finale, but applaud the producers for trying something different/taking our advice.

As great as it is having an EXCITING, TENSE finale, I believe that difficult challenges truly determine who deserves to win the race. TAR12, TAR13 and TAR14 were the first seasons to go to a final city without stopping over somewhere before, and these were probably the best finales I've ever seen. Having a Detour in the final leg is worth it. The finals in recent seasons are all so linear, and don't really ask teams to make any game-changing decisions.

TAR12 - Detour was awesome (not easy, but not extremely difficult), the glacier tasks were linear (I think every finale needs a touch of adventure of adrenalin rush), but I thought that was good because it kept momentum flowing without splitting the teams up too far apart. The final Roadblock (which I believe should always be a memory challenge) was an actual ROADBLOCK. Even though it determined who went on to win, it was an actual challenge (best memory challenge ever) and the best team was rewarded. From the final challenge onwards, I don't care who wins the race.

TAR13 - started with a Detour, the zip line was a good 'adventure' touch, then the difficult memory challenge (would've preferred it at the end) and Nick & Starr stayed at the top and went on to win, fair enough. But the 'treasure hunt' style clues in Portland were a cool addition to a final leg, just not positioned in the best possible spot. Still a good finale regardless!

TAR14 - Detour (unaired, but we saw one side of it, the linear jet-ski challenge (a little bit of luck and some good adventure shots) and then a difficult Roadblock and the best team came out on top, yet again.

These 3 finales were so well constructed and the format of having a Detour, a miscellaneous then a difficult Roadblock worked REALLY well. As long as 1 challenge is a bit of an adrenalin rush, 1 challenge requires memory and a few cryptic (but not 'The Dump' cryptic) clues are added in, you've got the recipe for a great ending! Who cares if there isn't a footrace to the finish?!

My favourite finale though would have to be TAR21. NYC is obviously a great location (although I'm not too fussed about finale locations). The Coney Island clue was a good starter, then the Houdini Roadblock was that adrenalin rush challenge that we needed (wooo). The pizza delivery required some skill although it was linear, it was a good way to keep the finale moving. Then FINALLY a difficult MEMORY Roadblock which determined an outcome!

TAR24 was probably the weakest season overall, not just the final leg. I am hoping (but not expecting) big things from TAR25 :lol:

Offline Karpov617

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Re: Finale Legs
« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2014, 07:25:20 AM »
It's so weird ??? that WRP thinks this finale combats the footrace in Season 2 finale. What do you guys think? I think that skydiving into the finish line was like Family Edition, good on paper but bad in execution. Though personally, I liked Family Edition. :)


 

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