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Author Topic: TAR 20: Art Velez and J.J. Carrell *Border Patrol Agents*  (Read 23474 times)

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Offline Declive

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Re: TAR 20: Art Velez and J.J. Carrell *Border Patrol Agents*
« Reply #125 on: April 17, 2012, 01:01:02 PM »
 :bigwelcome to RFF , Joha!
Oh my gravy , Jet and Cord are still the best!


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Offline Declive

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Re: TAR 20: Art Velez and J.J. Carrell *Border Patrol Agents*
« Reply #127 on: April 17, 2012, 01:03:15 PM »
Wow , this history about JJ...  :'(
Oh my gravy , Jet and Cord are still the best!

Offline joha

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Re: TAR 20: Art Velez and J.J. Carrell *Border Patrol Agents*
« Reply #128 on: April 17, 2012, 01:08:27 PM »
Thanks!!!!!! :)

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Offline joha

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Re: TAR 20: Art Velez and J.J. Carrell *Border Patrol Agents*
« Reply #130 on: April 17, 2012, 02:01:35 PM »
Yep, J.J Carrell got married in 2005 with Constance Ramos  :hrt:

Offline Katarzyna

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Re: TAR 20: Art Velez and J.J. Carrell *Border Patrol Agents*
« Reply #131 on: April 18, 2012, 07:40:38 PM »
I don't know why it's such a big deal to them why DaveChel decided not to u-turn anybody.
Leave Dave & Rachel alone!  (:;) Especially Dave.  :flirt:
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Offline apskip

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Re: TAR 20: Art Velez and J.J. Carrell *Border Patrol Agents*
« Reply #132 on: April 18, 2012, 10:22:16 PM »
I can tell you why it is such a big deal to Art and JJ that David (notice that Rachel was never mentioned) did not U-Turn Brendon and Rachel:

1. The big one is loss of trust. Art and JJ thought they had a deal with David and they were livid that he did not perform as promised.
2. The net impact of that is that, in order to U-Turn Brendon and Rachel, Art and JJ had to use their one precious U-Turn for this season. That means if they might want to use one in a later leg if there is another U-Turn they no longer have it.
3. Of course if Rachel and David had used their U-Turn they would be in the same boat, with no U-Turn left to use.
4. I believe that the "karma" aspect of U-Turns was perfectly understood by both teams. That is another reason Rachel and David did not want to allow bad karma to get them later in AR20 and why Art and JJ had to take that chance to accomplish their objective.

Now, you must ask why Art and JJ had to have Brendon and Rachel U-turned. In my judgment it was stupidity on their part. They had an ample lead on Brendon and Rachel that would have prevented the latter team from catching Art and JJ. Once the pit stop following leg 8 is over all teams will be equalized either at Arusha or Nairobi airports. It was just ego and desire to crush their opposition that caused Art and JJ to act as they did.

Offline starrynight

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Re: TAR 20: Art Velez and J.J. Carrell *Border Patrol Agents*
« Reply #133 on: April 19, 2012, 02:37:34 AM »
I'm not sure people should think about karma with u-turns, they are part of the game and there to be used.  If there is karma it's against the producers who put them in.  :D  On balance I suppose I am against them being put in seasons as they put those who are already ahead further ahead. 

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Offline Bluesky

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Re: TAR 20: Art Velez and J.J. Carrell *Border Patrol Agents*
« Reply #134 on: April 19, 2012, 08:49:29 AM »
Now, you must ask why Art and JJ had to have Brendon and Rachel U-turned. In my judgment it was stupidity on their part. They had an ample lead on Brendon and Rachel that would have prevented the latter team from catching Art and JJ. Once the pit stop following leg 8 is over all teams will be equalized either at Arusha or Nairobi airports. It was just ego and desire to crush their opposition that caused Art and JJ to act as they did.

The anger that they are holding and their animosity towards other teams may turn out to be their undoing. If they make decisions based on "getting even" with Dave or disliking Brenchel, rather than making strategic decisions, they stand a good chance of making a critical error.


Offline kevin2012

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Re: TAR 20: Art Velez and J.J. Carrell *Border Patrol Agents*
« Reply #135 on: April 19, 2012, 10:36:08 AM »
I'm trying to come to grips with the fact that besides how irritating and unlikable they are, there is a ginormous chance they will make it to the final 3. This means they'll have a presence in every leg, I feel like chocking myself every time they come on (Whenever I rewatch previous episodes, I've actually muted the show whenever they're on, just because I don't want to hear them talk).

That's not even the worst part, if they do make it to the final three, they may win the race. If that happens, not only will they destroy an entire seaon but will become imo a more notorious winning team than Eric and Danielle (quite a feat).

god darn it, what were the casters thinking? good gravy, what a terrible choice!

The good news is that maybe their villainous edit is a sign that they don't win, cuz I mean really, why would the editors want to portray eventual winners as complete... you-know-what? Then again, there was Eric and Danielle, ugh.... I don't know.

Final note,

Art and JJ  :eww

P.S You can tell I really strongly dislike this team, and that's true. But this is all my opinion only. I just really dislike their hypocrisy, egotistical attitudes, ever-growing arrogance, etc...

Again, it's all my opinion
« Last Edit: April 19, 2012, 10:40:14 AM by kevin2012 »
Bring on the 21!

Offline Prophet

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Re: TAR 20: Art Velez and J.J. Carrell *Border Patrol Agents*
« Reply #136 on: April 19, 2012, 11:48:21 AM »
I don't think they're nearly that terrible or a casting mistake. Jonathan and Victoria were an example of a casting mistake. Art and JJ are just egoish. :lol:
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Offline Best Loser

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Re: TAR 20: Art Velez and J.J. Carrell *Border Patrol Agents*
« Reply #137 on: April 19, 2012, 02:48:54 PM »
Yeah, I think casting hit the ball out of the park with casting these two. The fact that Art & J.J. get such a strong reaction out of everyone means to me that casting them was a success. And since according to Nary & Jamie they really were this way during the race, they aren't given a one-sided "root against this team" edit. That's not to say I want them to win. I just think there's a difference between teams whom I want to get really far and then fail (Team Guido), and teams whom I want off my screen immediately (Jonathan & Victoria).

Offline AR FAN

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Re: TAR 20: Art Velez and J.J. Carrell *Border Patrol Agents*
« Reply #138 on: April 19, 2012, 09:02:48 PM »
Yeah, I think casting hit the ball out of the park with casting these two. The fact that Art & J.J. get such a strong reaction out of everyone means to me that casting them was a success. And since according to Nary & Jamie they really were this way during the race, they aren't given a one-sided "root against this team" edit. That's not to say I want them to win. I just think there's a difference between teams whom I want to get really far and then fail (Team Guido), and teams whom I want off my screen immediately (Jonathan & Victoria).
Funny thing is even though I don't care for their arrogance, they don't seem as bad as Jonathan or the Guidos who were literally walking cartoon characters to me.

Offline starrynight

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Re: TAR 20: Art Velez and J.J. Carrell *Border Patrol Agents*
« Reply #139 on: April 20, 2012, 06:33:26 AM »
Jonathan and Colin early on were like cartoon characters.  Jonathan in particular was simply an annoying, self destructive person who people want off their screens from the start to the end.  A bit like Chad and that other guy on TAR 17 but an even more extreme and unrelenting version.  The aggression of them was as much on their partner as anyone. 

The Guidos I thought were simply funny, and I don't remember them being that nasty about other teams, they pretty much seemed to keep to themselves most of the time.  So I don't think they tried to intimidate, or could even be successful at doing that. 

Another hate figure on TAR forums for some seems to be Rob and Amber, but again I don't think they were nasty.  Maybe they played the game well in deceiving people sometimes, but all of the major players have to lie sometime to get ahead.  They had some arrogance but no more than many others.   

The deaf guy on TAR 14 was a bit mean as well I thought, and turned a bit aggressive.  That was funny as they tried to set him up as a hero at the start.  That was more like a passive aggression.

Art and JJ seem to be the first real successful villains I've seen on the seasons I've seen.   They seem to not just have egos, or the ability to transfer their faults on others...they actually seem to enjoy being bad.  And they also reinforce each others opinions and bad actions.  They aren't very discriminating in who they attack either, you have the feeling they despise everyone.  Art and JJ seem to have the ability to annoy most people while being still full of confidence themselves.  They probably have more arrogance than I have seen from other racers too.  And they definitely have had a role and sometimes (but not always) they have been funny in that.  Hardly anyone would want them to win though as you want to see the bad guys trip up before the end. 
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Offline eragon

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Re: TAR 20: Art Velez and J.J. Carrell *Border Patrol Agents*
« Reply #140 on: April 20, 2012, 08:13:47 AM »
Looks like I'm the only one here who likes Art & JJ!  :lol:
Well, you're gonna see them win TAR20.  :hearts: Hopefully.
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Offline apskip

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Re: TAR 20: Art Velez and J.J. Carrell *Border Patrol Agents*
« Reply #141 on: April 20, 2012, 01:19:08 PM »
Jonathan and Colin early on were like cartoon characters.  Jonathan in particular was simply an annoying, self destructive person who people want off their screens from the start to the end.  A bit like Chad and that other guy on TAR 17 but an even more extreme and unrelenting version.  The aggression of them was as much on their partner as anyone. 

The Guidos I thought were simply funny, and I don't remember them being that nasty about other teams, they pretty much seemed to keep to themselves most of the time.  So I don't think they tried to intimidate, or could even be successful at doing that. 

Another hate figure on TAR forums for some seems to be Rob and Amber, but again I don't think they were nasty.  Maybe they played the game well in deceiving people sometimes, but all of the major players have to lie sometime to get ahead.  They had some arrogance but no more than many others.   

The deaf guy on TAR 14 was a bit mean as well I thought, and turned a bit aggressive.  That was funny as they tried to set him up as a hero at the start.  That was more like a passive aggression.

Art and JJ seem to be the first real successful villains I've seen on the seasons I've seen.   They seem to not just have egos, or the ability to transfer their faults on others...they actually seem to enjoy being bad.  And they also reinforce each others opinions and bad actions.  They aren't very discriminating in who they attack either, you have the feeling they despise everyone.  Art and JJ seem to have the ability to annoy most people while being still full of confidence themselves.  They probably have more arrogance than I have seen from other racers too.  And they definitely have had a role and sometimes (but not always) they have been funny in that.  Hardly anyone would want them to win though as you want to see the bad guys trip up before the end. 

Everybody gets to state their own viewpoint (or when matters of fact are involved, the facts) on RFF. I have only some common ground with you, starrynight. Here is where I differ:

The Guidos were indeed destructive and nasty and not at all humorous in their efforts to block Emily and Nancy from getting on the plane in Tunis in AR1. I do agree that they were on good behavior throughout AR11.

Rob was indeed malicious in Peru in AR7 when he succeeded in blocking exit from the back door of the bus. On a plane going to Punta Arenas Chile in AR11, Rob intercepted a response from a flight attendant to Uchenna, stole the information and leftt Uchenna without it. 

Offline starrynight

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Re: TAR 20: Art Velez and J.J. Carrell *Border Patrol Agents*
« Reply #142 on: April 20, 2012, 01:48:38 PM »
What I mean with Art and JJ is that they are different to others who try and get ahead simply by being devious in the game by taking other people's taxis, telling someone wrong information, trying to get airport staff to keep silent about flights, trying to get doors shut early, trying to delay people.  I'm not sure if Art/JJ have done that stuff yet, maybe they have but I forgot.  :D  It's much more of a direct verbal villainousness, not always directly linked to the game even, almost like it's just for the pleasure of it.  This is what for me makes them the first villains that I've seen on the show.
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Offline Bluesky

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Re: TAR 20: Art Velez and J.J. Carrell *Border Patrol Agents*
« Reply #143 on: April 20, 2012, 02:50:52 PM »
I'm no fan of Art and J.J. - I find them to be over-the-top competitive and (at times) arrogant. But they are far from villains.

Usually villains don't do things like share prize money with another team, or return another team's lost passports when they might have hidden them, or simply let them stay lost.

From Art and J.J.'s perspective (which I don't totally agree with but think I understand), they only get ornery and nasty towards another team after that team has done something to them first.

Again, I don't totally agree with them, but I think from Art and J.J.'s perspective:

They didn't really get upset with Brendon and Rachel until B&R had followed them one too many times.
They didn't really get upset with Jamie and Nary until J&N looked them straight in the eye and continued to lie to them.
They didn't really get upset with Dave and Rachel until D&R broke their promise to them.

I think they are a bit too rigid about this, but clearly their internal "code of conduct" (we all have one, whether we realize it or not) includes 1) Pull your own weight, 2) Don't lie, and 3) Don't break promises.

And like all of us, they expect others to adhere to their own personal code of conduct, and they get really, really grumpy when that doesn't happen.

But they're not villains.

Offline Declive

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Re: TAR 20: Art Velez and J.J. Carrell *Border Patrol Agents*
« Reply #144 on: April 20, 2012, 02:52:49 PM »
I'm no fan of Art and J.J. - I find them to be over-the-top competitive and (at times) arrogant. But they are far from villains.

Usually villains don't do things like share prize money with another team, or return another team's lost passports when they might have hidden them, or simply let them stay lost.

From Art and J.J.'s perspective (which I don't totally agree with but think I understand), they only get ornery and nasty towards another team after that team has done something to them first.

Again, I don't totally agree with them, but I think from Art and J.J.'s perspective:

They didn't really get upset with Brendon and Rachel until B&R had followed them one too many times.
They didn't really get upset with Jamie and Nary until J&N looked them straight in the eye and continued to lie to them.
They didn't really get upset with Dave and Rachel until D&R broke their promise to them.

I think they are a bit too rigid about this, but clearly their internal "code of conduct" (we all have one, whether we realize it or not) includes 1) Pull your own weight, 2) Don't lie, and 3) Don't break promises.

And like all of us, they expect others to adhere to their own personal code of conduct, and they get really, really grumpy when that doesn't happen.

But they're not villains.

Ditto.
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Offline starrynight

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Re: TAR 20: Art Velez and J.J. Carrell *Border Patrol Agents*
« Reply #145 on: April 20, 2012, 03:25:28 PM »
They admitted that they churned things up intentionally at the airport to get their 'juices flowing'.  Explain that.  In the context of the show they are surely villains.  Outside of the race in real life I don't know what they are like, but they are at least acting the role of villains in this show.
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Offline Bluesky

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Re: TAR 20: Art Velez and J.J. Carrell *Border Patrol Agents*
« Reply #146 on: April 20, 2012, 04:55:37 PM »
We have different thresholds for villainy, that's all.

For me, a little verbal harassment isn't enough to consider someone a villain. But that's just me. I've taught my children for a long time that if you respond to an insult with a smile and a soft answer, the insulter gives up and goes somewhere else, because it is no fun.

But if you respond to an insulter by getting all torqued up and over reacting, you will continue to get insulted, because you have done just exactly what the insulter hoped you would do.

A lesson, by the way, that was apparently not taught to a couple of the remaining racers.

Offline starrynight

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Re: TAR 20: Art Velez and J.J. Carrell *Border Patrol Agents*
« Reply #147 on: April 21, 2012, 01:42:40 AM »
I'm talking about in the context of the race, I don't want to confuse it with real life.  It's an entertainment show in which people have their roles and in which there are peculiar pressures which we don't have in real life.  Outside of the show I doubt some of these people will ever come into contact with each other again, but on the show they can't avoid each other and the stress of the race is likely to have an effect as well.  And of course the whole thing is very heavily edited and manipulated by the producers as well. 
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Offline BayBay

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Re: TAR 20: Art Velez and J.J. Carrell *Border Patrol Agents*
« Reply #148 on: April 21, 2012, 03:39:25 AM »
Ok I understand that TAR is heavily edited and stuff is picked and chosen to be shown however nothing significant can be manufactured! The furthest their manufacturing goes is harmless things e.g. someone on TAR 17 said that Brooke and Claire was probably laughing at their asses, cut to a scene where Brooke and Claire are laughing at something totally unrelated...that's pretty much the threshold of manufacturing (in my eyes)!

I think if the producers were genuinely trying to make out this team as villains than they would have cut out the scene with Art and JJ giving them the money. However I genuinely believe that they are just GRUMPY men with RIDICULOUS expectations and ruthless tactics in this game.

I realize my grammar is like TERRIBLE in this post so please excuse it!  :lol: :lol:

Offline starrynight

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Re: TAR 20: Art Velez and J.J. Carrell *Border Patrol Agents*
« Reply #149 on: April 21, 2012, 07:31:49 AM »
I'm sure they do have some of that arrogance in real life, though exactly how much is hard to say.  And certainly they can't deny things that they have said.  They would say they are just playing the game, though whether churning things up and aggravating people is doing that is questionable.  That's why I would say they are being like villains, or the team the audience loves to hate on the show.  They do seem very over the top so that makes me wonder whether some of it is put on for the cameras.  I really believe that all teams do things for the cameras at one time or another and that it is encouraged. 

My point was partly about the loyalty aspect someone brought up though.  This isn't real life, it's a game there is no loyalty as they are all in it to win it.  So their point about Dave/Rachel not having loyalty to them is a bit ridiculous.
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