Author Topic: TAR 20 Transport  (Read 23993 times)

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Offline DrRox

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #175 on: April 23, 2012, 02:10:44 PM »
Dec 9. Pit Stop for Leg 7 at Ngorogoro Crater Simba Camp @ around noon and ~18 pit stop till sunup on Dec 10.
Dec 10 Start Leg 8 @ Ngorogoro Crater tour and finish Leg in Mto Wa Mbu the same day. I see no evidence of an extended pit stop for sightseeing. The sightseeing was covered in the Ngorogoro Crater tour. I believe the length of the pit stops were determined by filming in HD during the daytime. So pit stop at the Simba camp was around 18 hours and the pit stop after Lake Manyaro pit stop was 26-28 hours to give teams time to book flights to India

After re-watching the start of Episode 9 multiple times, I have an alternate theory on how teams got from the orchard pit stop in Mto Wa Mbu, Tanzania to Cochin, India.

Bopper/Mark finished Leg 8 very close to midday Dec 10. When B/M and R/D approach the mat, there is almost no shadow. When Ralph/Vanessa and Nary/Jamie arrive, the shadows are very pronounced/elongated, late afternoon Dec  10. I believe that teams were transported to Arusha from Mto Wa Mbu in daylight on Dec 10.  The Pit Start on Leg 9 was in darkness on evening of Dec 11, in a fairly well lighted town. The taxis were parked near a curb. What I am attempting to say, is that the Pit Stop Release for Leg 9 was not in Mto Wa Mbu, but in Arusha on the evening of Dec 11. Plus if you look at the special credits posted by Slowhatch here   http://forum.realityfanforum.com/index.php/topic,26988.100.html



You will see that the Mt. Meru Hotel was listed in the credits. It is in Arusha and is an 8 story luxury hotel. The décor of the hotel rooms match the room that the doctor examines Bopper’s knee in. So I think that the pit release for Bopper/Mark was at 9:06 pm on Dec11, 2011 in Arusha. With the other teams following. They are directed to go to Rickshaw Travel (also in Arusha) to get tickets for flights to Cochin, India. Seems like another example where Production got a local travel agent to remain open after hours. The first four teams all book the same itinerary, through Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, arriving in Cochin @ 6:05 am on Dec 13. They will fly out of Kilimanjaro International at 7:40 am on Dec 12.  When Ralph/Vanessa arrive at the travel agency, all the other teams have left…either to the airport or back to the hotel. It is about 30 miles from Arusha to Kilimanjaro International. Ralph/Vanessa actually get on the 6:00 am flight to Nairobi. From the short conversation, it appeared that some seats had just opened up, according to the travel agent. One would think that if seats were available earlier, the other teams would have booked them. Reminds me of the finale flights in TAR5 in a way. Last team in to the airport, got the first flights out.

So leaving JRO on Dec 12, 2011
Ralph/Vanessa:
1)  PW723   6:00 am - 7:00 am    JRO>NBO (Kilimanjaro-Nairobi)
2)  EK720   4:35 pm - 10:22 pm  NBO>DXB (Nairobi-Dubai)
3)  IX434   11:55 pm - 5:20+1 am    DXB>COK (Dubai-Cochin)

Other 4 teams JRO-COK
1) PW435   7:40 am - 9:00 am  JRO>DAR  (Kilimanjaro>Dar es Salaam)
2) QR535  11:55 am - 7:10pm  DAR>DOH (Dar es Salaam>Doha)
3) 9W555  11:20 pm-6:05+1 am DOH>COK (Doha>Cochin)

The arrivals in Cochin are pretty close to what was shown in the episode, with R/V already in the terminal, looking for bus schedules, when the other 4 teams arrive.

I just cannot see that any team flew through Mumbai, since the first Mumbai-Cochin flight didn’t arrive till 7:25 am, by which time all teams were gone from the Cochin airport.
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Offline apskip

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #176 on: April 23, 2012, 05:25:02 PM »
Dr. Rox,

I congratulate you on good detective work getting teams to Arusha but it hardly matters given that they started at 906pm to 131am whether they started in Mto Wa Mbu or in Arusha.

On your assertion that the teams in DarEsSalaam flew from DAR to Doha, here is some information that devastates your assertion:

QR 535    Qatar Airways    13:59    18:56 This is for a flight from Nairobi to Doha. The only flight from DAR to DOH was QR545 1756 2332. On arrival, they were too late to connect to 9W555, which was the flight clearly taken by Vanessa and Ralph.

Offline DrRox

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #177 on: April 23, 2012, 05:53:38 PM »
apskip,

You certainly have the right to believe what you wish. Personally, I like to believe in the facts.


(QR) Qatar Airways 535
(DAR) Dar Es Salaam, TZ to (NBO) Nairobi, KE
Status: Landed - On-time
Scheduled Departure:  11:55 AM - Tue 13-Dec-2011
Actual Departure:11:38 AM - Tue 13-Dec-2011
Scheduled Arrival:  1:15 PM - Tue 13-Dec-2011
Actual Arrival:12:56 PM - Tue 13-Dec-2011

 

(QR) Qatar Airways 535
(NBO) Nairobi, KE to (DOH) Doha, QA
Status: Landed - On-time
Scheduled Departure: 2:15 PM - Tue 13-Dec-2011
Actual Departure:  1:59 PM - Tue 13-Dec-2011 
Scheduled Arrival:  7:10 PM - Tue 13-Dec-2011
Actual Arrival:7:13 PM - Tue 13-Dec-2011


Tis a pity you didn't just research the flight number instead of just the route......you would have found what I orginally posted above. Oh well







 





 
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Offline apskip

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #178 on: April 23, 2012, 05:56:48 PM »
It turns out that you were correct, but what a travesty of travel agent work. Instead of sending those 4 teams and their crews from JRO to NBO, a simple and straightforward task, the travel agents must have sent them on the initiation of QR535 DAR NBO 1141 1258 before they went NBO DOH on the schedule indicated for Vanessa and Ralph on the schedule above. A few travel agents ought to be shot for not sending the 4 teams and crew directly to Nairobi instead of routing them through DarEsSalaam to get there.

Vanessa and Ralph clearly had much better travel agent support and got on QR535 in Nairobi. All teams apparently traveled together to Doha and Kochi.

Offline Chateau d If

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #179 on: April 27, 2012, 11:38:45 PM »
apskip,

You certainly have the right to believe what you wish. Personally, I like to believe in the facts.


(QR) Qatar Airways 535
(DAR) Dar Es Salaam, TZ to (NBO) Nairobi, KE
Status: Landed - On-time
Scheduled Departure:  11:55 AM - Tue 13-Dec-2011
Actual Departure:11:38 AM - Tue 13-Dec-2011
Scheduled Arrival:  1:15 PM - Tue 13-Dec-2011
Actual Arrival:12:56 PM - Tue 13-Dec-2011

 

(QR) Qatar Airways 535
(NBO) Nairobi, KE to (DOH) Doha, QA
Status: Landed - On-time
Scheduled Departure: 2:15 PM - Tue 13-Dec-2011
Actual Departure:  1:59 PM - Tue 13-Dec-2011 
Scheduled Arrival:  7:10 PM - Tue 13-Dec-2011
Actual Arrival:7:13 PM - Tue 13-Dec-2011


Tis a pity you didn't just research the flight number instead of just the route......you would have found what I orginally posted above. Oh well

Hi Roxy!   :waves:  Always a pleasure! 

Don't you mean December 12th?   :duno:
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Offline apskip

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #180 on: April 28, 2012, 03:45:13 PM »
Chateau,

You know that I the greatest respect for your work. However, this time you have laid an egg. I will not speak for Dr. Rox (he would not tolerate that anyway), but I can speak for myself and all the string of dates in this thread. Apparently, you have played Rip can Winkle while that was happening. You have to look at this from both ends and either way the conclusion that you are not one but TWO days behind is probable.

We know for a fact that Dec. 4 evening was the pit stop start time in Torino.
The evening of Dec. 5 was spend in transit by all teams and the Fussen pit stop started Dec. 6 afternoon.
Teams were released Dec. 7 am and headed for Baku. They reached there but did not have a leg until the morning of Dec. 8.
The next pit stop started the afternoon of Dec. 8.
Teams were released Dec. 9 am and it took until the following morning for teams to reach Ngrongoro Crater.
I have an extended pit stop (probably an extra 24 hours) while they were in Ngorongoro). You may not have assumed that but they have to have them.
That puts the start of leg 7 on Dec. 11, with a pit stop overnight in Mto Wa Mbu or Arusha (it really doesn't matter for date purposes).
Team fly to India and arrive Dec. 13 am, then do leg 9.
With an assumption of no extended pit stop in India teams start leg 10 Dec. 14 am (two days before you have it) and depart for Japan on
Dec. 15. If there is an extended pit stop in Kochi, then that departure would be Dec. 16.
They will arrive Dec. 16 (no India extended pit stop) or Dec. 17 (an Indian extended pit stop) and do leg 11, then enter another extended pit stop.
That takes us to either Dec. 18 or Dec. 19 departure from Osaka and the cross-the-International-Date-Line-west-to-east so they arrive same day.

Another way to look at this is top go backwards from the final tasks for the F3, which is know to be on Dec. 18. Go back across the International Date Line, which subtracts one day and it's Dec. 17. Take an extended pit stop in Japan and it's Dec. 16 starting that leg. Go back from Japan to India and it's Dec. 15, which is when teams leave India. The beginning of leg 10 will therefore by Dec. 14.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2012, 06:54:56 PM by apskip »

Offline TAR Fanatic

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #181 on: April 28, 2012, 04:10:29 PM »
This has nothing to do with transportation, but the final day of filming was Monday, Dec 19, 2011.
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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #182 on: April 28, 2012, 06:51:35 PM »
TAR Fanatic,

You could be right. Go examine the analyses I have placed earlier in this thread and also in the Ep. 10 thread. It may have been Dec. 18 and it may have been Dec. 19. The difference is determined by whether there was an extended pit stop in Kochi. 

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #183 on: April 28, 2012, 06:59:29 PM »
TAR Fanatic,

You could be right. Go examine the analyses I have placed earlier in this thread and also in the Ep. 10 thread. It may have been Dec. 18 and it may have been Dec. 19. The difference is determined by whether there was an extended pit stop in Kochi. 

I'm not basing this on any analysis. We had twitter sightings and pictures taken in Hawaii on Dec 19. The pictures of the teams rappelling were taken Dec 19. I think they were also in Japan on the 19th and crossed the International Date Line.
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Offline georgiapeach

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #184 on: April 28, 2012, 11:28:25 PM »
100% Dec 19.
"Our fans are pretty good. They don't give away too much. Sometimes people love dropping spoilers, but our fans are good. They tend to do it in such a way that doesn't ruin it for fans who don't want to know."--Phil Keoghan


Offline apskip

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #185 on: April 29, 2012, 02:39:17 PM »
Here is the optimal (according to me) route for Kochi to Osaka on Dec. 17:

COK BOM AI682 0800 1015 or  9W2112 0850 1037

17 Dec. BOM BKK 9W68 1315 1921

17 Dec. BKK KIX TG622 2322 0632+1 

This will take (based on the scheduled departure time from Kochi for AI682 of 0630 and not the actual shown above) 20.5 hours in transit.

Offline georgiapeach

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #186 on: April 29, 2012, 04:10:22 PM »
Teams were definitely NOT racing in Osaka on Dec 17.

Per Ryan's blog and pictures, he definitively says he saw the teams on Monday Dec 19, which of course raises the possibility of Osaka being a TBC leg.
http://nippwnd.blogspot.com/2011/12/1219-amazing-osaka.html

Caper's blog find says they saw the race on Day 2 of their trip, which is Dec 19 as well.
http://jjcsb.blogspot.com/2011_12_01_archive.html
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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #187 on: April 29, 2012, 05:41:34 PM »
Teams were definitely NOT racing in Osaka on Dec 17.

Per Ryan's blog and pictures, he definitively says he saw the teams on Monday Dec 19, which of course raises the possibility of Osaka being a TBC leg.
http://nippwnd.blogspot.com/2011/12/1219-amazing-osaka.html

Caper's blog find says they saw the race on Day 2 of their trip, which is Dec 19 as well.
http://jjcsb.blogspot.com/2011_12_01_archive.html
Peach,

What does 0632+1 mean? It means that the arrival time was the morning of Dec. 18!

Offline georgiapeach

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #188 on: April 29, 2012, 06:15:39 PM »
But they were racing on the 19th, not the 18th....
"Our fans are pretty good. They don't give away too much. Sometimes people love dropping spoilers, but our fans are good. They tend to do it in such a way that doesn't ruin it for fans who don't want to know."--Phil Keoghan

Offline georgiapeach

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #189 on: April 30, 2012, 01:43:55 AM »
I saved this on Dec 19, arr times from Osaka to Honolulu

"Our fans are pretty good. They don't give away too much. Sometimes people love dropping spoilers, but our fans are good. They tend to do it in such a way that doesn't ruin it for fans who don't want to know."--Phil Keoghan

Offline apskip

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #190 on: April 30, 2012, 08:37:35 AM »
Arrival in time in Osaka 632am Dec. 18 assuming flight lands there (Note: I have to look at potential implications of Hiroshima)
Leg 11 in Japan finishes morning of Dec. 18
Maybe an extended pit stop in Osaka of at least 24 hours but less than 36 hours
Leg. 12 starts with trip to some airport probably Osaka's Kansai) no later than evening of Dec. 19

Flight possibilities (assuming it was from Osaka and not from Narita to arrive earlier):

DL278 2038 0831 (not +1 due to International Date Line crossing west to east)
HA450 2116 0932
JL78    2120 0915


Offline georgiapeach

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #191 on: April 30, 2012, 09:24:54 AM »
Leg 11 in Japan finishes morning of Dec. 18
Maybe an extended pit stop in Osaka of at least 24 hours but less than 36 hours


Once more. The leg in Osaka was run on DEC 19. TWO eyewitnesses confirm. Pit stop will be short therefore...
"Our fans are pretty good. They don't give away too much. Sometimes people love dropping spoilers, but our fans are good. They tend to do it in such a way that doesn't ruin it for fans who don't want to know."--Phil Keoghan

Offline Chateau d If

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #192 on: April 30, 2012, 10:24:05 AM »
Don't forget this:  From the intro caps

the JR Shin-Osaka Railway Station, Osaka Japan  (with Shinkansen)

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Offline apskip

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #193 on: April 30, 2012, 02:25:24 PM »
Chateau,

I don't know how to fit that in except for transport to Narita Airport to get an earlier flight. The other possibility is a train trip to Hiroshima so that the picture of the airport bus tagged by somebody as being only from Hiroshima Airport is valid.

Just a simple bus trip from Kansai airport into downtown Osaka costs 1900 yen and runs every 20 to 30 minutes except between midnight and 630am.

The distance from Osaka to Hiroshima is 175 miles each way, so 350 miles would be burned by using trains or buses or combinations for that.

Offline theschnauzers

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #194 on: April 30, 2012, 02:50:49 PM »
I'm just going to wait and see if my suggestion some months ago that teams might use airports in western Japan (Hiroshima, Osaka, etc.) pans out after being castigated about suggesting this then.

The logic of it was always that such use of those airports would limit the flights teams could take and to manipulate the teams' arrival so Phil could get ahead of them for both the Japan leg and for the final leg in Hawaii. It wouldn't surprise me if Phil was able to leave for Osaka the afternoon or evening of the day of check-in of the second Kochi leg.
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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #195 on: April 30, 2012, 07:17:05 PM »
THE SCHNAUZERS,

I was one of those who displayed a low-probability attitude toward your "western Japan and Hiroshima" hypothesis. It can be done, but it's not pretty.

The best flight combination leaves Kochi in the evening and arrives in Hiroshima (HIJ) at just under 21 hours elapsed time, slightly more than my Kochi to Osaka combination. Here are the flights:

MU2734 COK MAA 1950 2125
MH182  MAA  KUL  0001+1 0610+1
PW388 KUL PVG 0920+1 1417+1

However, how many Amazing Race teams board flights immediately after their pit stop at 8pm?

I have other combinations, but all appear to be at least 24 hours in total transit time.

I don't see flying into Hiroshima, but it's definitely not impossible.

Offline apskip

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #196 on: May 03, 2012, 05:50:46 PM »
Flying to Hiroshima appears more probable now. I would not do a round-trip on the bullet train from Osaka to Hiroshima and back UNLESS there were bad flight connections into Hiroshima. the one above is OK except for leaving in the evening. I have another here that also leaves in the evening but gets there 4 hours elapsed time quicker than any of the best Cochin to Osaka flights I have found: 

COK SIN SQ267 2345 0742+1
SIN ICN  SQ16   0932+1 1647+1
ICN HIJ  OZ162 1836+1 1958+1

However, due to the evening departures, I believe that the flight combination starting in Cochin will be the one actually used because it departs and arrives in the morning and the one above does neither and earlier one in my prior post in this thread depart in the evening.

I would like to give kudos to jacobsk68 who hypothesized that Singapore would be a connection on the route. That will be true if teams fly this route through Singapore and Seoul to get to Hiroshima.   
« Last Edit: May 03, 2012, 05:54:38 PM by apskip »

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #197 on: May 03, 2012, 06:12:28 PM »
If one concludes that teams are likely to get from Shin-Osaka to Hiroshima by bullet train, then the Japan National Railways schedule is rather useful. Most bullet train trips on that route take slightly less than 90 minutes. Here are some representative ones throughout the day:

Dep. Shin-Osaka  Arr. Hiroshima

         1009                 1133
         1029                 1155 
         1059                 1233
         1209                 1338
         1218                 1342
         1245                 1401
         1501                 1638
         1522                 1654
         1545                 1705

There are others for earlier, later and in between these times.

I have to admit that the photo of the Hiroshima airport bus is troubling because that does not fit the model I have gravitated to.
 

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #198 on: May 03, 2012, 09:39:21 PM »
Flying to Hiroshima appears more probable now. I would not do a round-trip on the bullet train from Osaka to Hiroshima and back UNLESS there were bad flight connections into Hiroshima. the one above is OK except for leaving in the evening. I have another here that also leaves in the evening but gets there 4 hours elapsed time quicker than any of the best Cochin to Osaka flights I have found: 

COK SIN SQ267 2345 0742+1
SIN ICN  SQ16   0932+1 1647+1
ICN HIJ  OZ162 1836+1 1958+1

However, due to the evening departures, I believe that the flight combination starting in Cochin will be the one actually used because it departs and arrives in the morning and the one above does neither and earlier one in my prior post in this thread depart in the evening.

I would like to give kudos to jacobsk68 who hypothesized that Singapore would be a connection on the route. That will be true if teams fly this route through Singapore and Seoul to get to Hiroshima.
Thanks apskip. The reason for suggesting Singapore is that it's the airport to the east of India that has the most connections to the far East and  India. Dubai(followed by Doha) is the the closest with most connections to the west. Since you are also suggesting that most probably it will be the connecting Airport.

Offline DrRox

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #199 on: May 04, 2012, 12:34:42 AM »
Good thinking jacobsk68.......terrific job on the Kerala legs. I think someone else suggested connections through Singapore about a month ago............oh yeah.......


If they are flying from Nairobi to Kerala, South India, then they could just as well fly into Calicut International Airport in Karipur, Kerala as either Kochi or Trivandrum. Kozhikode (formerly Calicut) is known as the city of spices and is a textile center. It has many arrival flights from all over the Middle East, Kuwait, Oman, Saudia Arabia and all the emirates. Seems the Arabs like to hire the people of S India for their worker bees. It also has domestic connections to Mumbai and Delhi if they go somewhere else first in India. As far as exiting South India…..I think they would have to leave by either Kochi or Trivandrum. Both those airports have connections to either Kuala Lumpur or Singapore and both those airports have connections direct to Osaka.
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