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Offline apskip

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #75 on: February 21, 2012, 01:23:38 PM »
Confirmation of the BA airport change in this vid:

http://youtu.be/Nn7LkXIfx8Y

Peach,

And better yet, months ago I ran a EZE SLA list of flights for Nov. 28 2011. Here is what I found:
No flights were found departing from Ministro Pistarini Airport and arriving in Martin Miguel de Guermes International Airport at the given time period.

If you want to fly from Buenos Aires to Salta, the only reasonable way to do it is from Jorge Newberry airport. There were 9 flights that day AEP SLA


Offline apskip

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #76 on: March 04, 2012, 04:52:36 PM »
There is a need for an update to see how teams actually get to Torino from Asuncion. Here it is:

Dec. 2 ASU GRU PZ716 0405 0712 (note: this flight may be a bit early for teams to make)
            ASU GRU PZ712 1810 2117

Here is the feasible connection to Buenos Aires:
Dec. 2 ASU EZE G37470 1205 1355 connecting with JJ8005 EZE GRU 1532 1848
            ASU EZE PZ705    1710 1900

Connecting in GRU, the options are:
GRU FRA LH507 2000 1057 connecting with LH300 1241 1355
GRU FRA JJ8070 2325 1519

Connecting in EZE, the options are:
EZE MAD LH511 1820 1142 connecting with IB8818 1635 1845
EZE MAD AR1132 2319 1506 connecting with IB8818 1635 1845

 

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Offline georgiapeach

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #77 on: March 04, 2012, 04:58:16 PM »
Quick refresher on arrival times in ASU please??
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Offline apskip

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #78 on: March 04, 2012, 05:34:01 PM »
Flight times from Buenos Aires to Asuncion are surprisingly limited.

From AEP to ASU it's PZ700 2230 2359

From EZE to ASU there are these options, PZ704 0918 around 1100
                                                                   G37471 1519 1645

But there also were more using a connection through Montevideo taking much longer but fitting in between the two above:

PU366 1149 around 1330 connecting with PU703 1345 1435

That shows about a 3.5 hour advantage for the first 4 teams over the second 5 teams.
 
« Last Edit: March 05, 2012, 04:10:22 PM by apskip »

Offline apskip

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #79 on: March 04, 2012, 05:37:15 PM »
Here is the best flight from Frankfurt to Baku:

Nonstop LH612 1350 2120

The best alternative is to go Munich to Istanbul to Baku:
TK636 1820 2155
TK338 2335 0410+1


Offline apskip

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #80 on: March 07, 2012, 08:43:43 AM »
I have been at the front of the belief that the Rome sightings were at best only a few trailing teams. However, I have done a new study which indicates that they may have been the way that all teams made the connections to Torino. The timing for flights from Asuncion to Sao Paulo or Buenos Aires are in posts above.  Connecting at either one, here are the potential flights for arrival Dec. 3:

GRU FCO
AZ679 0233 1641 Dec. 3 departure
AZ675 1715 0719+1 Dec. 2 departure

EZE FCO Dec. 3
AZ681 1410 0702+1 Dec. 2 departure
AR1140 2325 1705 +1 Dec. 2 departure

FCO TRN connecting to those flight arrivals on Dec. 3
AZ1413 0935+1 1123+1
AZ1427 1925+1 2030+1


Which was the way that teams made it "across the pond (aka Atlantic Ocean)"? We will see Sunday night. I expect a mix of departure times and connecting cities.

Offline apskip

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #81 on: March 07, 2012, 12:45:21 PM »
It's time to put it all together for Asuncion to Torino and see what the implications are for Dewcember 2 flights arriving December 3 in Europe.

First, the only team that can possibly make the 0405 flight out of Asuncion is Art/JJ with my projected release time of 0230, so they will reach Sao Paulo at 0712. However, now they are stuck waiting for the next flight. The Madrid route is useless because the late arrival time from MAD into TRN of 1845 guarantees that teams will not use it unless they have no alternatives. Next, the choice is via Frankfurt or via Rome. Rome is quicker for the following schedule reason:

GRU FRA LH507 2000 1057+1 connecting to LH300 FRA TRN 1241+1 1355+1

GRU FCO AZ675 1715 0713+1 connecting with AZ140 FCO TRN 0935+1 1135+1

The first flight ASU EZE arrives after the only connection which would be superior, so it's out of the running.


For the next 7 teams, I believe they finished before sunset (1927 on December 1 in Asuncion) and would be released sometime after the 0230 that I expect Art/JJ have earned but before 0730. These teams will have to make a choice of Sao Paulo or Buenos Aires and then Madrid, Rome or Frankfurt.

The applicable flights for the first leg are:

ASU GRU PZ712 1810 2117
ASU EZE  G37470 1205 1355

The next flight segment is:
GRU FCO 0233+1 1641+1 (Note: this departs after midnight on Dec. 3)
EZE MAD LH511 1820 1142+1
GRU FRA JJ8070 2325 1519+1


The third flight segment is:
FCO TRN AZ1427 1825+1 2036+1
MAD TRN IB8818 1635+1 1845+1
FRA TRN  LH304 2120+1 2245+1
 

The final situation is for Vanessa/Ralph, who I expect to be released after 0725 since they finished in the dark. I think they will catch up at Asuncion airport and the issue will be seats available on the most desirable flight combinations.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2012, 12:49:58 PM by apskip »

Offline ianthebalance

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #82 on: March 08, 2012, 10:42:51 PM »
It's time to put it all together for Asuncion to Torino and see what the implications are for Dewcember 2 flights arriving December 3 in Europe.

First, the only team that can possibly make the 0405 flight out of Asuncion is Art/JJ with my projected release time of 0230, so they will reach Sao Paulo at 0712. However, now they are stuck waiting for the next flight. The Madrid route is useless because the late arrival time from MAD into TRN of 1845 guarantees that teams will not use it unless they have no alternatives. Next, the choice is via Frankfurt or via Rome. Rome is quicker for the following schedule reason:

GRU FRA LH507 2000 1057+1 connecting to LH300 FRA TRN 1241+1 1355+1

GRU FCO AZ675 1715 0713+1 connecting with AZ140 FCO TRN 0935+1 1135+1

The first flight ASU EZE arrives after the only connection which would be superior, so it's out of the running.


For the next 7 teams, I believe they finished before sunset (1927 on December 1 in Asuncion) and would be released sometime after the 0230 that I expect Art/JJ have earned but before 0730. These teams will have to make a choice of Sao Paulo or Buenos Aires and then Madrid, Rome or Frankfurt.

The applicable flights for the first leg are:

ASU GRU PZ712 1810 2117
ASU EZE  G37470 1205 1355

The next flight segment is:
GRU FCO 0233+1 1641+1 (Note: this departs after midnight on Dec. 3)
EZE MAD LH511 1820 1142+1
GRU FRA JJ8070 2325 1519+1


The third flight segment is:
FCO TRN AZ1427 1825+1 2036+1
MAD TRN IB8818 1635+1 1845+1
FRA TRN  LH304 2120+1 2245+1
 

The final situation is for Vanessa/Ralph, who I expect to be released after 0725 since they finished in the dark. I think they will catch up at Asuncion airport and the issue will be seats available on the most desirable flight combinations.

I think Art and JJ will fly to Buenos Aries first. Because on one of the previews, you can see them talking with Bopper and Mark. And the preview mentions B+M need to get out of Argentina, which would mean Art and JJ are there too. Just my guess.

Offline apskip

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #83 on: March 09, 2012, 07:03:48 AM »
I don't know how long the Asuncion pit stop was. If it was longer than I expect (12 hours), then Art & JJ would not make the early flight to GRU. In that case, they would have this option (as would probably all the other teams  if space were available):

ASU EZE  G37470 1205 1355
EZE FRA LH511 1822 1142+1
FRA TRN LH302 1632+1 1754+1
 

Offline georgiapeach

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #84 on: March 09, 2012, 07:31:21 AM »
It would be nice if we could ID this airport: (click to enlarge)




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Offline Prophet

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #85 on: March 09, 2012, 07:38:15 AM »
All I can figure is that they took a flight to Buenos Aries or something and missed a close connection :duno:
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Offline apskip

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #86 on: March 09, 2012, 07:54:50 AM »
Prophet,

If you look at the flight information in my post just above, there is a 4.5 hour layover in Buenos Aires. There is another 5 hour layover in Frankfurt. Those are a by-product of the airline schedules.

Offline walkingpneumonia

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #87 on: March 09, 2012, 08:53:19 AM »
It would be nice if we could ID this airport: (click to enlarge)




"The Country Boys' mission...get out of Argentina"
Pretty sure its Ascuncion - just over Marks shoulder you can see the name of a café - Air P.... There is no such named restaurant listed in EZE or GRU. The info is rather limited on ASU, I can't find a good listing of available restaurants there but by process of elimination...

And the "get out of Argentina" quote? Could the CBS web monkeys have confused Paraguay with Argentina?
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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #88 on: March 09, 2012, 09:33:33 AM »
Could the CBS web monkeys have confused Paraguay with Argentina?

It wouldn't surprise me! :lol:
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Offline georgiapeach

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #89 on: March 09, 2012, 04:27:33 PM »
Trying to match those posters. I like the Asuncion idea.
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Offline Declive

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #90 on: March 09, 2012, 05:05:15 PM »
Coudn't be São Paulo? (Guarulhos or Congonhas)
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Offline apskip

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #91 on: March 12, 2012, 02:57:35 PM »
I have discovered some fascinating flight time information  to round out our knowledge of what actually happened. For all 8 teams it looks to me like these parts of the total went went for the first 2 legs:

Dec. 2 ASU GRU PZ716 0402 0712

Dec. 2 GRU FCO AZ675 1715 0713+1

Then things diverged on the third leg into Torino.

7 teams got Dec. 3 FCO TRN AZ1413 0945 (30 min. late) 1123 (48 min. late)

The interesting thing is what happened to Mark and Bopper as a result of not reading the clue in full detail. They were able to get on PZ716
and AZ675 just as the other teams did, but in Rome they were booked on AZ1429 1030 1150. However, that flight was cancelled, so they had few options. Connecting through Paris to get to Torino had few flight combinations, so it had to be Frankfurt or Munich. The better option was Frankfurt:

LU231 1006 1222 FCO FRA  connecting with LH300 1241 1355 FRA TRN

Through Munich it was AZ432 0923 (if they knew about the cancellation early enough) FCO MUC connecting with EN1898 1450 1637 MUC TRN

So it looks like the cancellation cost Mark/Bopper another 2 hours beyond the original delta, which was narrowed to about 30 minutes by the lateness of AZ1413.
 

Offline apskip

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #92 on: March 12, 2012, 05:11:28 PM »
I think Art/JJ finished leg 3 in Asuncion sometime around 230pm on Dec. 1. So, why was the pit stop timing around 26.5 hours, a most unusual number? I believe this was tailored to make sure that Art/JJ could not get the last flight to Sao Paulo at 6pm on Dec. 1. If they had, they would have arrived in Torino by 2135 or 2200 on Dec. 2, about 26 hours ahead of the other teams.

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #93 on: March 13, 2012, 09:44:28 AM »
Askip, I think you are off by one day.

Teams reached the pit stop in Asunción on the afternoon evening of December 1. Then I think they had a 24+h break to start again in the afternoon of the 2nd. They then fly out on the morning the 3rd of December:
  PZ 716 ASU-GRU 04:15-07:01
  AZ 675 GRU-FCO 17:15-07:31+1

Which puts then in Rome early on the 4th. Then they diverge and the first seven teams take:
  AZ1413 FCO-TRN 09:20-10:48

While Mark & Bopper fly:
  AZ1429 FCO-TRO 10:20-11:42

The early flight was slightly delayed and the later flight got in ahead of schedule so Mark & Bopper were less than 1h behind upon arrival.

Teams where then observed when they reached Phil in Turin in the afternoon of the the 4th.

Offline apskip

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #94 on: March 13, 2012, 12:39:43 PM »
maf:

I am inclined to agree with your correction of the date of departure from Paraguay from Dec. 1 to Dec. 2. It appears from double-checking that the Paraguay leg would have started on the morning of Dec. 1. That means it finished the later afternoon of that day or the evening. With a greater than 24 hour pit stop in Asuncion, based in my opinion of desire of World Race Productions to make sure Art/JJ did not get too far ahead, that puts their departure on the early morning of Dec. 3. All flights you show were as I indicated (although the actual departure and arrival times were actually slightly different) except that Mark/Bopper do not face the cancellation of AZ1429 and can arrive at close to the expected 1150am arrival, only 54 minutes behind the other teams. With my earlier work for the day earlier, the problem that did not make sense was that they would have been 2.5 hours behind and could not have logically gotten within sight of Kerri/Stacy at Museo Nazionale dell'Automobile.

Offline Jimmer

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #95 on: March 13, 2012, 03:30:09 PM »
Where do you find historical flight data?

Offline Jimmer

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #96 on: March 13, 2012, 04:53:01 PM »
Flights look very interesting to Germany, if they fly to Munich, Bavaria, Germany and IF there is a standard 12 hour pit stop.

Sunset in Turin on December 4 (the day of Leg 4 pitstop) was 1648.
From Sunday, we can tell Art & JJ and Dave & Rachel checked in before sunset.
With a 12 hour pit stop they have a chance of getting on December 5 flight
    LH1905 TRN-MUC 0645-0825
The flight after that is
    LH1895 TRN-MUC 0835-1000
with the chance of Joey & Danny, Vanessa & Ralph, Nary & Jamie, and maybe the others (with the exception of Mark & Bopper) depending on what time they checked in.
The flight after that is
     LH1897 TRN-MUC 1305-1445
For sure this is the earliest flight for Mark & Bopper they can make with them checking in well after 10PM.
The flight after that is
     LH1899 TRN-MUC 1705-1845
if Mark & Bopper do not make the above flight.

I hope this helps everyone!

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #97 on: March 13, 2012, 05:16:48 PM »
About how to get to Germany from Turin. Could teams perhaps self-drive? Let us say they are released in the morning of the 5th and then drive to Germany where they encounter an HOO so the actual leg takes place on the 6th.

This would cost a day, but teams would be bunched and production could get some wonderful pictures of the teams driving through the alps in winter. And we do see that teams self-drive in Bavaria.

According to Google the driving time from Turin to Neuschwanstein Castle is about 6 hours.

Offline Jimmer

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #98 on: March 13, 2012, 06:48:03 PM »
That is a possibility. The only thing is the teams would have to cross the borders of countries twice (That is Italy -> Switzerland and Switzerland -> Germany). The Amazing Race has had teams cross borders. Season 19 had teams cross Denmark to Germany. The reason why I doubt it is because I do not believe ever in the history of the Amazing Race that teams have driven completely through a country, in this case Switzerland, without a single clue box or task. (If someone can back me up on that, it would be helpful.)

Another thing to throw out there is that it is a 1.5 hour drive, according to Mapquest, from the Munich airport to Neuschwanstien Castle.

Offline apskip

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #99 on: March 13, 2012, 09:41:24 PM »
With the time lost going to Turin airport (including ticketing, security, etc.), flying to Munich taking about 100 minutes and a 2 hour drive from Munich to Fussen, I estimate that the total time to fly from a downtown Torino starting point and end up in Fussen would be 6 hours. That assumes that you have such a flight perfectly timed from Torino to Munich. My opinion is that the 6 hour drive would be a MUCH better choice if that is offered.


 

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