December 18, 2014, 11:01:21 PM

Author Topic: TAR 20 Transport  (Read 24174 times)

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Offline theschnauzers

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #50 on: January 27, 2012, 12:19:49 PM »
Maybe some of it was handled with non-standard length pit stops? Or HOOs?
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Offline georgiapeach

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #51 on: January 27, 2012, 12:20:50 PM »
Maybe there is more in Ascunsion then??
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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #52 on: January 27, 2012, 12:38:18 PM »
Maybe there is more in Ascunsion then??

Or a delay somewhere.
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Offline Flamant

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #53 on: January 27, 2012, 01:13:09 PM »
nvm

Offline apskip

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #54 on: January 27, 2012, 01:50:01 PM »
This note has been an immense frustration to me, as this is the 4th time I have written it. "Warning - while you were reading 3 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post. has zapped me 3 previous times, so beware!

I have a perfectly obvious and logical chain of events to propose to reconcile issues discussed above:

1. Start ASU Dec. 2 PZ712 ASU GRU 2000 2117
2. Connect in GRU Dec. 2 LH507 GRU FRA 2325 1057+1
3. Dec. 3, on arrival Frankfurt airport, teams get marked cars to drive 4 hours to Fussen. With sunset around 1625,  tasks will begin at dusk.
4. Dec. 3 tasks INSIDE Neuschwanstein Castle
5. Dec. 4 Teams released from pit stop, drive to Munich airport and get one of these 4 Air Dolimiti flights to Torino:
                EN1896 1102 1231
                EN1898 1450 1621
                EN1900 1707 1850
                EN1904 2123 2253
6. After Dec. 4 tasks and pit stop in Torino, teams fly out to Nairobi Dec. 5 or 6 



Offline Neobie

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #55 on: January 27, 2012, 02:59:33 PM »
Apskip's sequence makes the most sense, but we do have a sighting of four teams at Rome airport on the morning of 4 Dec. That's strange if we assume Elizabeth was travelling on EasyJet to Geneva, because that flight leaves at 9.50am and the first flight from Munich gets in at 11.10am.

Asuncion couldn't have been longer, nor an extended Pit Stop in Paraguay, because Docol saw teams leaving. A HoO wouldn't be able to explain the sightings in Rome either, or explain how teams lasted all the way until the evening to check in at Turin.

Unless there was a Leg Four or some crazy delay in S America? If teams miss the 11.30pm flight from Sao Paulo to London on the night of 2 Dec, the next best options will get teams into Rome (en route to Turin) at the right time frame:
AZ 681 from Buenos Aires to Rome 3/1415-4/0710
AZ 673 from Rio de Janeiro to Rome 3/1645-4/0700
AZ 675 from Sao Paulo to Rome 3/1715-4/0715
« Last Edit: January 27, 2012, 03:23:22 PM by Neobie »
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Offline georgiapeach

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #56 on: January 27, 2012, 03:58:47 PM »
I have to go check again, but I was thinking Docol saw Production leaving, not teams, which could certainly be earlier than teams by 12-18 hours.
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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #57 on: January 27, 2012, 04:20:21 PM »
I have to go check again, but I was thinking Docol saw Production leaving, not teams, which could certainly be earlier than teams by 12-18 hours.

It was production not the teams.
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Offline Neobie

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #58 on: January 27, 2012, 05:22:19 PM »
Docol saw both the production and the teams. Production was checking in for a 12.05pm flight to Sao Paulo (via Ciudad del Este), but he also saw the teams checking in at 5.23pm at the TAM counter.

There's a 6pm flight to Sao Paulo and a 8pm flight to Montevideo. It'd be kind of weird to have an overnight leg in Uruguay, a short or non-existent Pit Stop, and then a flight to Italy (they'd need to leave Montevideo at 1.25pm), but just leaving the possibility open for now. It's also possible for a leg in Brazil, but again the not having enough time for a Pit Stop problem still holds.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2012, 05:34:41 PM by Neobie »
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Offline apskip

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #59 on: January 27, 2012, 06:23:52 PM »
The question has been asked by Neobie for after Torino whether the next leg is Nairobi (involving no backtracking but considerable north/south movement) or Baku (involving considerable backtracking but maybe less total north/south movement depending primarily on where the following leg is). I cannot answer that question, but what I have done is to look at the optimal flight combinations (there is no nonstop point-to-point between the cities in question). Here are best combinations that I have found (with the caveat that I frequently have trouble reading my own nearly illegible handwriting):

MXP to NBO on maybe Dec. 6. 2011
MS704 MXP CAI 1335 1815 connecting MS049 2015 CAI GYD 0345+1
EK98  MXP DXB 2120 0615+1 connecting EK719 DXB GYD 1045+1 1455+1
TK1894 MXP IST 1115 1535 connecting TK607 IST NBO 1835 0210+1
SV212 MSP JED 1530 2335 connecting KQ331 JED NBO 0030+1 0630+1

NBO to GYD (Baku) on maybe Dec. 8, 2011
TK608 NBO IST 1540 2115 connecting TK336 IST GYD 2330 0810+1
EK723 NBO DXB 2335 0535+1 connecting FZ705 1130+1 1430+1
QR535 NBO DOH 1615 1910 connecting QR974 DOH GYD 0820+1 1235+1
QR533 NBO DOH 2050 2310 connecting QR974 DOH GYD 0820+1 1235+1

MXP GYD on maybe Dec. 6, 2011
TK1878 MXP IST 0845 1350 connecting TK334 IST GYD 1455 1835
TK1894 MXP IST 1115 1535 connecting TK335 IST GYD 2155 0135+1
TK1896 MXP IST 1745 2125 connecting TK333 IST GYD 2330 1410+1

GYD NBO on maybe Dec. 8, 2011
QR975 GYD DOH 1800 1945 connecting QR534 2030 0610+1
TK333 GYD IST 1330 1430    connecting TK607 1835 0210+1
EK256 GYD DXB 1845 2135 connecting KQ3110235+1 0645+1                       


Offline Neobie

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #60 on: January 27, 2012, 06:34:40 PM »
Not sure where our three unknown legs lie, but AZAL and Silk Way fly direct from Milan to Baku on Fridays (one flight) and Mondays (three flights). The Turin check-in was the afternoon/evening of a Sunday, so this might be just right for the producers and teams!
« Last Edit: January 27, 2012, 06:38:02 PM by Neobie »
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Offline apskip

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #61 on: January 30, 2012, 02:32:23 PM »
I am going to put the flights to position teams from Asuncion to Sao Paulo into context. Two go nonstop and others involve connections in Buenos Aires, only some of which are feasible. Here are the nonstops:

Dec. 2 ASU GRU PZ716 0405 0712 (note: this flight may be a bit early for teams to make)
            ASU GRU PZ712 1810 2117

Here is the feasible connection through Buenos Aires:
Dec. 2 ASU EZE G37470 1205 1355 connecting with JJ8005 EZE GRU 1532 1848
            ASU EZE PZ705    1710 1900 has no connection early enough to arrive in time for GRU FRA LH507 departure at 2325.

Offline apskip

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #62 on: January 30, 2012, 05:35:52 PM »
An unknown number of teams apparently took the routing through Buenos Aires EZE airport. I wanted to show that there were 3 routes (2 nonstop ASU GRU and one connecting through EZE) potentially available. I believe that some teams that waited for the nonstop and some went to EZE. The EZE bunch were spotted by the Kenya-bound travelers and docol spotted teams in ASU airport just before the departure of the appropriate flight.

Offline Neobie

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #63 on: January 30, 2012, 07:39:31 PM »
Docol saw at least eight teams at Asuncion airport at 5.23pm, after all flights to Buenos Aires had left. (The last one was at 5.10pm.) Unless there was a non-elimination the first three legs (and if Elimination Station is in Mexico, it's unlikely they wouldn't eliminate people in South America), that means all teams were still in Asuncion after all these flights have left. The only flights available for the racers are:
1800 to Sao Paulo
1800 to Santa Cruz
2000 to Montevideo

The sighting in Buenos Aires could have been teams arriving from the US or them leaving Buenos Aires for Asuncion (in Leg Three). We don't know the date of the sighting yet.
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Offline apskip

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #64 on: January 31, 2012, 07:33:26 AM »
Neobie,

Who cares that all flights to Buenos Aires had left at 523pm? You have missed my point! Any teams connecting through EZE was long gone at that point to be able to make the connection to GRU. However, the nonstop flight ASU GRU at 6pm remained. Some teams went one way, some went the other and all presumably made it to GRU in time.

Offline Neobie

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #65 on: January 31, 2012, 09:27:51 AM »
The race started with eleven teams.
There were three legs between the start and Asuncion.
Production presumably wouldn't non-eliminate people in South America if sequester was in Mexico.
Hence, there were probably eight teams left.

Docol saw "at least" eight teams at Asuncion after all flights to Buenos Aires had left.
Hence, no team went to Buenos Aires (at the start of Leg Four).
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Offline apskip

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #66 on: January 31, 2012, 09:57:06 AM »
Departure from Asuncion to Buenos Aires EZE airport is not the only possibility opportunity for teams to be spotted at EZE. We have these 2 trips:

1. flight Buenos Aires to Salta
2. flight Buenos Aires to Asuncion

It of course depends on which day you pick to look for flights, but irrespective of the date this is true:

1. Flights from Buenos Aires to Salta are from national airport Jorge Newberry (AEP) airport, not international EZE
2. flights from Buenos Aires to Asuncion are split, roughly half from AEP and half from EZE.

Depending on which day the travelers to Kenya spotted teams, it could have been while AR20 teams were waiting to fly to Asuncion from EZE. That would be on or about November 30. 

Offline Neobie

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #67 on: January 31, 2012, 10:22:00 AM »
Or teams could have been seen arriving from Miami on their very first leg (where they'd need to transfer, as you said, to AEP to get to Salta).

Teams were seen racing in Asuncion on the afternoon (even at night) of 1 Dec, and the only flights from AEP to Asuncion are at 9pm and 10.10pm. I believe they departed from EZE, which has an 8.45am and a 2.35pm flight.
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Offline apskip

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #68 on: February 03, 2012, 08:47:25 AM »
The flight possibilities from Buenos Aires to Salta on Nov. 29 were:

AR2450 0625 0835
4M4110 0902 1015
AR2454 1120 1446
4M4112 1325 1522
4M4134 1710 1935
AR2458 1855 2059
AR2460 2035 2245
OY856   1910 2120

With teams arriving into Buenos Aires from Miami the evening of Nov. 28, I expect that one of the morning departures would have been used. Note that teams would have to transfer (it's about 55km, no short distance) from the EZE airport to the AEP airport.

Offline theschnauzers

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #69 on: February 04, 2012, 12:35:00 AM »
I hadn't been aware that Buenos Aires had three passenger airports. Learn something new every day. That 55 km would likely take a while with traffic? (I have to Google Earth this and see where each airport is via-a-vis the city core and each other.) This reminds me of Paris, New York, London, and Moscow which have multiple passenger airports and where not all of them accept international flights.

In looking at B.A. on Google Earth (with the airport overlay), there are three airports; EZE looks to be the one to the southwest of the city core, there's a second airport (which I assume to be "AEP") to the northwest of the city core, and there's a lot of urban development between the two airports; in addition, there is a third airport in the city core on the shoreline. (And on Google Earth if you get close in enough you can see passenger jets on the tarmac.)

Anyhow, I would guess that if the teams arrive in the evening and can't fly out until morning, then the travel time to go between airports shouldn't matter for getting the flights to Salta.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2012, 12:49:28 AM by theschnauzers »
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Offline apskip

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #70 on: February 04, 2012, 07:59:09 AM »
Now I too had to learn new things in order to add to our bounty of knowledge. That third airport is general-aviation only in San Fernando to the north-northwest but sort of along the coast. The best way to think of it is maybe 5 km beyond (around an inlet) Tigre. 

Offline theschnauzers

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #71 on: February 04, 2012, 12:46:47 PM »
For some reason, Google Earth didn't show the airport icon for some other airfields/airports around Buenos Aires.

The one closest to Tigre is not the one I was referring to in my last post. I was referring to the one labelled "El Palomar" which is  inland and more to the west from the city core than the one near Tigre. (You can also see jets on the tarmac if you go close in on G.E.)

And there does seem to be a large area under construction in the large green space labelled "Campo de Mayo," making me think it might be an airport under construction. Google Earth also has a couple of airport icons in different corners of that area as well.
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Offline amazinglatinoamericafan

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #72 on: February 05, 2012, 05:22:02 PM »
el palomar airport is a militar airport in buenos aires !!

Offline apskip

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #73 on: February 20, 2012, 10:15:19 AM »
Here is my take on the flights which appear to have been actually used in episode 1:

Nov. 26 LAX MIA
AA276 2323 0648
AA1461 0001 (actually Nov. 27)
Note: others have assumed that all teams went on the earlier flight; I have no proof but it does not make sense to me. The most interesting thing is that there are no scheduled departures after 1410 until the two flights above

Nov. 27 MIA EZE
AR1303 0900 2024
AA1961 1109 2150

Nov. 28 AEP SLA
AR2450 0625 0840 (note that this is up to 1.5 hours before the information others reported earlier)
4M4150 0853 1101
This indicates a 2 hour 21 minute advantage for the first group of 6 teams.

Offline georgiapeach

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #74 on: February 21, 2012, 11:38:31 AM »
Confirmation of the BA airport change in this vid:

http://youtu.be/Nn7LkXIfx8Y
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