December 22, 2014, 04:55:31 PM

Author Topic: TAR 20 Transport  (Read 24348 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Chateau d If

  • Captain of the Obvious
  • TAR Detectives
  • RFF Frantic Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 4648
  • Missing Apskip :(
Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #25 on: December 21, 2011, 12:20:28 PM »
12-19-11

KIX Osaka DL 278  Delta Air Lines  scheduled arr: 9:30 AM  ACTUAL ARR: 8:31 AM


That's one of the flights I posted yesterday   :mas25
Documenting her Race Around the World:  Wild Eyes
Our children, what are they going to amount to?


Offline Chateau d If

  • Captain of the Obvious
  • TAR Detectives
  • RFF Frantic Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 4648
  • Missing Apskip :(
Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #26 on: December 21, 2011, 12:25:57 PM »
The exit info on the pitstop pic at Osaka Castle says it was taken at 2011-12-18T23:28:17-05:00.
Osaka is GMT +9 so that would make it  09:28:17 local time in Osaka - Sunday December 18.

So Phil would have no trouble making any of these three departures from Osaka on Sunday December 18th:

HNL Honolulu  DL 278  Delta Air Lines      20:50  20:39  N7 Landed On-time 333  08:31 - Sun 18-Dec-2011
HNL Honolulu  HA 450 Hawaiian Airlines  21:15  21:04 N15 Landed On-time 763  08:33 - Sun 18-Dec-2011
HNL Honolulu  JL 78    JAL                           21:25  21:24  S30  Landed On-time  767  09:07 - Sun 18-Dec-2011

The teams could have had a better than 24 hour pit stop and taken the same flight numbers on Monday December 19:

HNL Honolulu  DL 278  Delta Air Lines  20:50  20:38  N6  Landed On-time 333  08:31 - Mon 19-Dec-2011
HNL Honolulu  HA 450  Hawaiian Airlines  21:15  21:16  N15  Landed On-time 763  09:32 - Mon 19-Dec-2011
HNL Honolulu  JL 78     JAL  21:25  21:20  S30  Landed On-time  767 09:15 - Mon 19-Dec-2011

I did a "calibraion" test of one of his shots where there is a clock in it.  Based on that the check ins were around 7:20 pm local time.
Documenting her Race Around the World:  Wild Eyes
Our children, what are they going to amount to?

Offline walkingpneumonia

  • Amazing Race Detective
  • TAR Detectives
  • RFF Frantic Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1047
Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #27 on: December 21, 2011, 12:28:12 PM »
The exit info on the pitstop pic at Osaka Castle says it was taken at 2011-12-18T23:28:17-05:00.
Osaka is GMT +9 so that would make it  09:28:17 local time in Osaka - Sunday December 18.

So Phil would have no trouble making any of these three departures from Osaka on Sunday December 18th:

HNL Honolulu  DL 278  Delta Air Lines      20:50  20:39  N7 Landed On-time 333  08:31 - Sun 18-Dec-2011
HNL Honolulu  HA 450 Hawaiian Airlines  21:15  21:04 N15 Landed On-time 763  08:33 - Sun 18-Dec-2011
HNL Honolulu  JL 78    JAL                           21:25  21:24  S30  Landed On-time  767  09:07 - Sun 18-Dec-2011

The teams could have had a better than 24 hour pit stop and taken the same flight numbers on Monday December 19:

HNL Honolulu  DL 278  Delta Air Lines  20:50  20:38  N6  Landed On-time 333  08:31 - Mon 19-Dec-2011
HNL Honolulu  HA 450  Hawaiian Airlines  21:15  21:16  N15  Landed On-time 763  09:32 - Mon 19-Dec-2011
HNL Honolulu  JL 78     JAL  21:25  21:20  S30  Landed On-time  767 09:15 - Mon 19-Dec-2011

I did a "calibraion" test of one of his shots where there is a clock in it.  Based on that the check ins were around 7:20 pm local time.

Ummm, I think the sun would be down by that time. Sunset at 4:51 PM
From there to here, and here to there,
funny things are everywhere

Offline Chateau d If

  • Captain of the Obvious
  • TAR Detectives
  • RFF Frantic Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 4648
  • Missing Apskip :(
Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #28 on: December 21, 2011, 12:35:58 PM »
-- recalculating --   :cmaslol
Documenting her Race Around the World:  Wild Eyes
Our children, what are they going to amount to?

Offline apskip

  • Geographer Extraordinaire
  • TAR Detectives
  • RFF Frantic Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 6201
Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #29 on: December 21, 2011, 12:59:02 PM »
12-19-11

KIX Osaka DL 278  Delta Air Lines  scheduled arr: 9:30 AM  ACTUAL ARR: 8:31 AM

Peach,

It was you who stated that teams were spotted in Honolulu around 9am. That presumably does not mean at Honolulu International Airport; it means on their way downtown. How do teams get through customs at a major airport and probably a minimum of 5 miles in a taxi in 30 minutes total? This does not compute.


Offline georgiapeach

  • Amazing Race Moderator
  • RFF Moderator
  • I Live at RFF
  • *****
  • Posts: 40718
  • TAR Detective
Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #30 on: December 21, 2011, 01:06:42 PM »
12-19-11

KIX Osaka DL 278  Delta Air Lines  scheduled arr: 9:30 AM  ACTUAL ARR: 8:31 AM

Peach,

It was you who stated that teams were spotted in Honolulu around 9am. That presumably does not mean at Honolulu International Airport; it means on their way downtown. How do teams get through customs at a major airport and probably a minimum of 5 miles in a taxi in 30 minutes total? This does not compute.

Excuse me? I don't believe I said that.

Getting more info that racers may have been spotted earlier, I think we need to be able to place them there by about 9.

I think I said MAY have been spotted. Photos began around 9 ish...were those just of helicopters and setup? I don't have exact data, when and if I do I will say so.

What I was trying to say was that a photo on the wires at say 10AM  does NOT take into account the security briefings and instructions...so a wire sighting of 10 AM could be a an arrival much closer to 9. Sorry for any confusion.
"Our fans are pretty good. They don't give away too much. Sometimes people love dropping spoilers, but our fans are good. They tend to do it in such a way that doesn't ruin it for fans who don't want to know."--Phil Keoghan

Offline apskip

  • Geographer Extraordinaire
  • TAR Detectives
  • RFF Frantic Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 6201
Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #31 on: December 21, 2011, 01:17:06 PM »
I have completed a MapQuest analysis of the most direct route from Honolulu International Airport to One Waterfront Tower at 425 South St. in downtown Honolulu. Here it is:


15 mins / 7.07 miles
Honolulu International Airport (HNL)
300 Rodgers Blvd # 12, Honolulu, HI 96819
(808) 836-6411 | website

1.   Start out going south on Rodgers Blvd.    0.06 mi
2.   Make a U-turn onto Rodgers Blvd.
    If you reach Aolele St you've gone a little too far 0.2 mi
3.   Turn right onto N Nimitz Hwy/HI-92 E. Continue to follow HI-92 E.
HI-92 E is just past N Nimitz Hwy
If you are on N Nimitz Hwy and reach Catlin Dr you've gone a little too far.   5.2 mi
4.   Turn left onto South St.     South St is 0.1 miles past Channel St
    If you reach Keawe St you've gone a little too far    0.07 mi 

Offline Chateau d If

  • Captain of the Obvious
  • TAR Detectives
  • RFF Frantic Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 4648
  • Missing Apskip :(
Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #32 on: December 21, 2011, 01:27:13 PM »
The exit info on the pitstop pic at Osaka Castle says it was taken at 2011-12-18T23:28:17-05:00.
Osaka is GMT +9 so that would make it  09:28:17 local time in Osaka - Sunday December 18.

So Phil would have no trouble making any of these three departures from Osaka on Sunday December 18th:

HNL Honolulu  DL 278  Delta Air Lines      20:50  20:39  N7 Landed On-time 333  08:31 - Sun 18-Dec-2011
HNL Honolulu  HA 450 Hawaiian Airlines  21:15  21:04 N15 Landed On-time 763  08:33 - Sun 18-Dec-2011
HNL Honolulu  JL 78    JAL                           21:25  21:24  S30  Landed On-time  767  09:07 - Sun 18-Dec-2011

The teams could have had a better than 24 hour pit stop and taken the same flight numbers on Monday December 19:

HNL Honolulu  DL 278  Delta Air Lines  20:50  20:38  N6  Landed On-time 333  08:31 - Mon 19-Dec-2011
HNL Honolulu  HA 450  Hawaiian Airlines  21:15  21:16  N15  Landed On-time 763  09:32 - Mon 19-Dec-2011
HNL Honolulu  JL 78     JAL  21:25  21:20  S30  Landed On-time  767 09:15 - Mon 19-Dec-2011

I did a "calibraion" test of one of his shots where there is a clock in it.  Based on that the check ins were around 7:20 pm local time.

Ummm, I think the sun would be down by that time. Sunset at 4:51 PM

I can't seem to get the exif data on  these shots today!  I was able to see it yesterday.  What I did was to use this shot in the train station to correct the exif offset.  I may have used the wrong numbers.  If you can still get the exif data see if you can figure out the offset.  The clock says 1:05 and it must be PM.

https://plus.google.com/100956205360836295806/posts?banner=pwa

Going at it another way

This shot was taken between 1:20 and 1:40 pm (assumes December 18th).


Documenting her Race Around the World:  Wild Eyes
Our children, what are they going to amount to?

Online Leafsfan

  • Big Brother Updaters
  • RFF Frantic Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 4755
Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #33 on: December 21, 2011, 01:38:50 PM »
@Chateau If you used the pics I posted directly they were screen shots from the website.  :cmaslol
Map Maker (Just Pm me!)

Offline walkingpneumonia

  • Amazing Race Detective
  • TAR Detectives
  • RFF Frantic Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1047
Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #34 on: December 21, 2011, 01:43:32 PM »
The photo from the train station has a time of 2011-12-17T23:11:56-05:00 (note its the day before).
So from the train photo if 2011-12-17T23:11:56-05:00 = 13:05:00
Then from the pit stop photo 2011-12-18T23:28:17-05:00 = 13:22:00
So your time from the shadows is spot on!
From there to here, and here to there,
funny things are everywhere


Offline apskip

  • Geographer Extraordinaire
  • TAR Detectives
  • RFF Frantic Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 6201
Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #35 on: December 21, 2011, 01:46:17 PM »
I asked myself whether normal customs processing times might be avoidable with pre-clearance in Japan. As best as I can determine, the answer is that it cannot. Here are the origination points from which pre-clearance is possible:

Most major Canadian Airports (Toronto-Pearson, Montréal-Trudeau, Ottawa Macdonald-Cartier, Vancouver, Calgary, etc.), Queen Beatrix International Airport in Aruba, Grand Bahama and Lynden Pindling International Airports in the Bahamas, Bermuda International Airport in Bermuda, and Dublin and Shannon International Airports in Ireland.

Japan is not on that list.

Offline apskip

  • Geographer Extraordinaire
  • TAR Detectives
  • RFF Frantic Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 6201
Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #36 on: December 21, 2011, 02:15:17 PM »
It is theoretically possible that DL 278 KIX HNL was the one taken by the F3 teams on Monday Dec. 19. It is likely that Phil and some WRP staff were on any of 3 flights KIX HNL on Sunday Dec. 18 that departed around 9pm and arrived between about 830am and 9am.

However, I still believe that the tightness of the schedule from the 831am arrival of DL278 (far ahead of schedule) would have caused WRP to put the F3 teams on flights NRT HNL which arrived hours earlier from 621am to 809am.

I want to track the last possible train schedule that could have gotten teams from Osaka to Narita on the afternoon of Dec. 19. This tells us what the pit stop length may have been. To give you the answer before showing the analysis, the pit stop would have been slightly less than 12 hours with the prior leg finish around 122pm. Here is the timing of the rail journey:

Dep. Osaka 1311 to Shin-Osaka 1315
Dep. Shin-Osaka 1317 to Shinagawa 1553
Dep. Shinagawa 1620 arr. NARITA International Terminal 2 1725  arr. Int. Terminal 1 1729

Note - alternate rail connections are available about every 30 minutes due to the twice an hour Shinagawa to Narita schedule.

Departures NRT HNL:
DL638 1859 0621
UA880 1915 0628
CI18    2012 0736
JL76    1955 0718
DL646 2049 0809     
« Last Edit: December 21, 2011, 02:22:11 PM by apskip »

Offline Chateau d If

  • Captain of the Obvious
  • TAR Detectives
  • RFF Frantic Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 4648
  • Missing Apskip :(
Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #37 on: December 21, 2011, 03:09:31 PM »
Apskip, you don't seem to know about the the Shinkansen Nozomi bullet train!  It runs 4x per hour!

Here, Teams can leave Osaka as late as 1:45 pm and arrive 5:53 pm at Narita Terminal 2 in time for the 7:00 pm flight DL 638 to HNL:

Documenting her Race Around the World:  Wild Eyes
Our children, what are they going to amount to?

Offline apskip

  • Geographer Extraordinaire
  • TAR Detectives
  • RFF Frantic Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 6201
Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #38 on: December 21, 2011, 04:56:52 PM »
Apskip, you don't seem to know about the the Shinkansen Nozomi bullet train!  It runs 4x per hour!

Here, Teams can leave Osaka as late as 1:45 pm and arrive 5:53 pm at Narita Terminal 2 in time for the 7:00 pm flight DL 638 to HNL:
First of all, Chateau, I rode on the Shinkansen line multiple decades ago and am personally familiar with schedules and stops along the main line from Toyko to Kyoto (just a few miles from Osaka).

I used the schedule for the Bullet Train between Shin-Osaka and Tokyo but not from Tokyo (via Shinagawa) out to Narita. Chateau, I bet you don't know without looking it up how many trains per the relevant hour of the trip occur on each segment of the line. Let me enlighten you:

Osaka to Shin-Osaka on the local line 18 between 1300 and 1400
Shin-Osaka to Shinagawa on the Shinkansen line 7 between 1500 and 1600 (not 4, Chateau)
Shinagawa to Narita on the Keisei Skyliner line max. 2 per hour all day long
Alternate - Tokyo to Nippori 19 on Keihou Tohoku Negishi line between 1600 and 1700 connecting in Nippori to Keisei Skyliner train to Narita 4

So, if you want to go through Tokyo, the schedule is slightly better due to 4 trains/hour vs. 2 from Shinagawa.

My main point is "Who cares how many trains there are on the Shinkansen line, which does not run all the way to Narita?"
 
 
« Last Edit: December 21, 2011, 05:51:06 PM by apskip »

Offline Chateau d If

  • Captain of the Obvious
  • TAR Detectives
  • RFF Frantic Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 4648
  • Missing Apskip :(
Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #39 on: December 21, 2011, 07:41:34 PM »
Apskip, you don't seem to know about the the Shinkansen Nozomi bullet train!  It runs 4x per hour!

Here, Teams can leave Osaka as late as 1:45 pm and arrive 5:53 pm at Narita Terminal 2 in time for the 7:00 pm flight DL 638 to HNL:
First of all, Chateau, I rode on the Shinkansen line multiple decades ago and am personally familiar with schedules and stops along the main line from Toyko to Kyoto (just a few miles from Osaka).

I used the schedule for the Bullet Train between Shin-Osaka and Tokyo but not from Tokyo (via Shinagawa) out to Narita. Chateau, I bet you don't know without looking it up how many trains per the relevant hour of the trip occur on each segment of the line. Let me enlighten you:

Osaka to Shin-Osaka on the local line 18 between 1300 and 1400
Shin-Osaka to Shinagawa on the Shinkansen line 7 between 1500 and 1600 (not 4, Chateau)
Shinagawa to Narita on the Keisei Skyliner line max. 2 per hour all day long
Alternate - Tokyo to Nippori 19 on Keihou Tohoku Negishi line between 1600 and 1700 connecting in Nippori to Keisei Skyliner train to Narita 4

So, if you want to go through Tokyo, the schedule is slightly better due to 4 trains/hour vs. 2 from Shinagawa.

My main point is "Who cares how many trains there are on the Shinkansen line, which does not run all the way to Narita?"

Well you'd better dust off your memories because on-line trip planners are up to date and hard to beat!

I did know about the 7 Shinkansen per hour but it looks like you did not consider the 4 that are Shinkansen Nozomi.  The train you selected was the slower Hikari and only runs twice per hour.

In the Race, accuracy matters!  The actual scheduled departure of the Hikari was at 1:13 pm not 1:17 pm as you stated, the actual arrival at Shinagawa was 4:03 pm not the 3:53 pm as you stated.

Also, getting off the Bullet train in Shinagawa is not the best idea.  You should stay on until the Tokyo station.  The reason is that you will be closer to Nartia and you have more options to make the transfer.  As you said, but did not implement, there is the twice per hour Narita Express plus the twice per hour Skyliner as well as other multi-transfer routes.

In the Race, getting there first matters!  The route you proposed takes longer and arrives later than one taken by a Team using the Nozomi.  Your route leaves Osaka at 1:11 pm and gets to Narita Terminal 2 at 5:25 pm.  I can send a Team on a route leaving at 1:21 pm, by using the Nozomi, gets to Narita Terminal 2 at 5:21 pm!

Who cares!  Winners do!   :cmas16
Documenting her Race Around the World:  Wild Eyes
Our children, what are they going to amount to?

Offline Prophet

  • TarKonian Game Host
  • RFF Frantic Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 8229
  • ∞∞
Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #40 on: December 21, 2011, 07:56:00 PM »
All this is too confusing for me :iok
Physics alone is not enough.

Those who forget history are sure to repeat it.

Offline Zack.

  • Big Brother Updaters
  • RFF Frantic Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1274
Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #41 on: December 22, 2011, 01:23:29 AM »
Of course, they could also force teams to fly to Narita. On the 19th there were two options:

JC3010  0815 0924
QR 802  1745 1904

If it's a 12(ish) hour Pit Stop, they can make either flight; if it's more than 18 hours they can take the second. The first flight provides a long layover (nearly 10 hours) while the second flight gives less than two hours to connect. My experience in NRT is admittedly nonexistent, but I wouldn't think that WRP would gamble on a two hour connection and risk teams to be a day behind when a safer alternative exists. Moreover WRP doesn't seem to want to spare any expense regarding getting teams to the final city (flying via Lufthansa in TAR 13, the shortened Pit Stops in TAR 13/15 to get teams together on a flight, taking a completely different flight after the sick pilot delayed things in TAR 18, etc).

Fearless prediction: 12 hour pit stop (finally!), Teams get the 'Fly to Honolulu!' clue and in the additional information are given that they must connect through Tokyo (if they aren't given what flight to take outright). JC3010 is used to get to NRT, while one of the options apskip gives is used to get to Honolulu.

Offline apskip

  • Geographer Extraordinaire
  • TAR Detectives
  • RFF Frantic Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 6201
Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #42 on: December 23, 2011, 03:10:29 PM »
Zack,

I appreciate your vote of confidence for my hypothesis on the most likely route from Osaka to Tokyo. However, with all the delays from security procedures, check-ins, and possible delays in the flight, I find it unlikely that teams would have been placed on a flight from Osaka to Narita. They would probably have taken a train to reach Narita, of which you can see from earlier in this thread there are many dozens of options.

Also, if a flight was the chosen mode, teams would more likely have flown from Osaka's national airport ITM rather than international KIX. There were 4 flights from ITM to NRT on Dec. 19.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2011, 03:14:18 PM by apskip »

Offline apskip

  • Geographer Extraordinaire
  • TAR Detectives
  • RFF Frantic Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 6201
Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #43 on: January 27, 2012, 08:45:16 AM »
Neobie,

You get 20 lashes with a wet noodle for placing your transportation information on this thread:


Re: The Amazing Race 20 » Timeline & Spoiler Summary
« Reply #45 on: Today at 12:57:44 AM »

Don't think we can use the TAR 13-19 production schedule anymore! Transport options are educated guesses unless otherwise noted:

SAT 26 NOVEMBER
AA 276 from Los Angeles to Miami, 2323-0648 (confirmed, scheduled 2255-0640)

SUN 27 NOVEMBER
AR 1303 from Miami to Buenos Aires EZE, 0900-2024 (0900-1950)
AA 961 from Miami to Buenos Aires EZE, 1109-2156 (1055-2150)

MON 28 NOVEMBER
AR 2450 from Buenos Aires AEP to Salta, 0745-0945 (0625-0840)
4M 4110 from Buenos Aires AEP to Salta, 0955-1220
AR 2454 from Buenos Aires AEP to Salta, 1250-1455 (1120-1335)
PIT STOP #1: SALTA (possible, but less likely, that teams take a bus ride on the 28th and race on the 29th)

TUE 29 NOVEMBER
Multiple flights from Salta to Buenos Aires AEP, 1h55
Bus from Salta to Buenos Aires, ~20h

WED 30 NOVEMBER
Multiple flights from Salta to Buenos Aires AEP, 1h55
PIT STOP #2: BUENOS AIRES (confirmed)
Bus from Buenos Aires to Asuncion, ~15h

THR 1 DECEMBER
PZ 704 from Buenos Aires EZE to Asuncion, 0918-1035
G3 7471 from Buenos Aires EZE to Asuncion, 1519-1625
PIT STOP #3: ASUNCION (confirmed)

FRI 2 DECEMBER
PZ 712 from Asuncion to Sao Paulo, 1800-2117
JJ 8062 from Sao Paulo to Milan, 2240-1400 (1310)
JJ 8108 from Sao Paulo to Paris, 2320-1340
JJ 8070 from Sao Paulo to Frankfurt, 2325-1514 (1410)

SAT 3 DECEMBER
AF 2322 from Paris to Munich, 1545-1700 (1535-1705)
LH 114 from Frankfurt to Munich, 1627-1710 (1620-1725)
IQ 1861 from Milan to Munich, 1705-1810 (1705-1820)
PIT STOP #4: BAVARIA (strange to have a night leg)

SUN 4 DECEMBER
LH 1854 from Munich to Milan, 0909-1006 (0905-1015)
Train from Milan to Turin, 1110-1255/1115-1310/1215-1410
(Not sure why teams would be spotted in Rome airport?)
PIT STOP #5: TURIN (confirmed)

There are direct flights from Milan to Baku, although they arrive at night. You can get from Baku to Dar Es Salaam or Nairobi via London, Dubai, Frankfurt, Amsterdam, or Paris. Nairobi then has good connections to most of Asia.


_________ End Neobie, Start apskip below

I have quite a few comments on your proposals:

1. I agree that one way either Salta to Buenos Aires or Buenos Aires to Salta should be by bus.
2. However, I think it would go the opposite of what you show, with Nov. 28 to Salta by bus and Nov. 29 from Salta by plane
3. You have a number of alternatives to get to Munich from Frankfurt, Paris or Milan by plane. I don't think that's how they did it. The distance from Frankfurt to Fussen is 417 km, with driving time of 4 hours 8 minutes vs. Munich to Fussen 168km and 1 hour 40 minutes. Why bother to go through Munich? Besides, our first inclination was a nonstop flight from Sao Paulo to Frankfurt, which is what I believe happened.
4. I too am confounded by the Rome airport spotting. It has never made any sense unless teams had full flights or to reroute in transit due to weather problems.
5. There are many Lufthansa flights for Dec. 4, INCLUDING LATER IN THE DAY, from Munich to Torino.
6. Have you forgotten Tanzania? Teams would logically head there next after Torino before heading to Asia rather than backtracking to get there.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2012, 07:20:06 PM by apskip »

Offline Prophet

  • TarKonian Game Host
  • RFF Frantic Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 8229
  • ∞∞
Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #44 on: January 27, 2012, 08:55:58 AM »
Neobie,

You get 20 lashes with a wet noodle for placing your transportation information on this thread:

:lol3:
Physics alone is not enough.

Those who forget history are sure to repeat it.

Offline Neobie

  • Amazing Detective
  • TAR Detectives
  • RFF Frantic Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 2029
  • For the winners go to spoil!
Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #45 on: January 27, 2012, 09:23:17 AM »
1. I agree that one way either Salta to Buenos Aires or Buenos Aires to Salta should be by bus.
2. However, I think it would go the opposite of what you show, with Nov. 28 to Salta by bus and Nov. 29 from Salta by plane
3. You have a number of alternatives to get to Munich from Frankfurt, Paris or Milan by plane. I don't think that's how they did it. The distance from Frankfurt to Fussen is 417 km, with driving time of 4 hours 8 minutes vs. Munich to Fussen 168km and 1 hour 40 minutes. Why bother to go through Munich? Besides, our first inclination was a nonstop flight from Sao Paulo to Frankfurt, which is what I believe happened.
4. I too am confounded by the Rome airport spotting. It has never made any sense unless teams had full flights or to reroute in transit due to weather problems.
5. There are many Lufthansa flights for Dec. 4, INCLUDING LATER IN THE DAY, from Munich to Torino.
6. Have you forgotten Tanzania? Teams would logically head there next after Torino before heading to Asia rather than backtracking to get there.

I'd concede #3 and #5. I find the Germany leg pretty untraditional, though; even if they drove in straight from Frankfurt, they'd be running around in darkness, in a region famous for its natural prettiness (which is evident only in the day). Neuschwanstein Castle isn't even that beautifully lit-up at night. Going to Rome would be a terrible idea. The only logical flight was cancelled and the earliest teams can get into Turin, via Rome, would be at 5.17pm, some 5h after the direct Munich-Turin flight (which leaves after the Munich-Rome flight).

For #2, I think it's more likely that a bus between Salta and Buenos Aires, if there is one, would appear on Leg 2 instead of Leg 1. The bus ride is long (~20h), and the regularly scheduled buses would have all departed by the time they arrived. If there were special overnight charter buses to take teams out of Buenos Aires, they'd arrive in Salta at night. If they left early the next morning, they'd arrive, again, at night. If teams were made to wait around at Buenos Aires for a bus that arrived around dawn, they'd be sitting around for a while. Add that to the delay created by flying through Miami and arriving at Buenos Aires at night, and you've got a very dragged out first leg...

For #6, I was just attracted by the direct flight from Milan to Baku. Flight itineraries do seem easier if we took a Italy > Azerbaijan > Tanzania > Asia route rather than a Italy > Tanzania > Azerbaijan > Asia one, given the limited options out of Baku (but there are Middle Eastern and Central Asian destinations from there). From Nairobi (the airport they used for charter flights in TAR 5) there would be flights straight on towards India, SE Asia, even Hong Kong and Guangzhou.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2012, 09:26:59 AM by Neobie »
Found out that Neobie in Chinese means "f*king awesome"! No, really. Look it up!

Offline apskip

  • Geographer Extraordinaire
  • TAR Detectives
  • RFF Frantic Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 6201
Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #46 on: January 27, 2012, 10:39:07 AM »
There are 46 different combinations to go Nairobi to Baku. Here are the major connecting points (with the ones in London and Moscow and Amsterdam not listed because to me they don't make sense given the other options):

Istanbul
Dubai
Doha
Many first connecting points (DXB, CAI, DAR) leading to IST as the second and final one
Many first connecting points (ADD, KGL, MBA, BAH) leading to Dubai as the second and final one

For those not familiar with some of these DAR is DarEsSalaam, KGL is Kigali and  MBA is Mombasa


Now, Neobie has raised the important and valid question of how to leave Baku and I will specify that it should be in an eastward direction. That means China Southern Airlines, which flies to Guangzhou, Beijing, Shanghai and a few other places from Baku. The perfect solution to this problem is via Urumqi at teh western end of Szechuan province. Here are the nonstop flights from Baku to Urumqi (note: they do not fly every day of the way):

GYD URC 0810 1625 on AZAL Airlines
GYD URC 2045 0700+1 China Southern 6024

What a perfect solution, as Urumqi, on many of those ancient trade routes in use in Marco Polo times, has to be a very interesting place! It is also so isolated that it could easily have not been the site of an Amazing Race leg with few outsiders noticing.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2012, 10:44:46 AM by apskip »

Offline Neobie

  • Amazing Detective
  • TAR Detectives
  • RFF Frantic Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 2029
  • For the winners go to spoil!
Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #47 on: January 27, 2012, 11:51:22 AM »
Our Asuncion > Bavaria > Turin route has two problems:
1. The Bavaria leg would have been run at night.
2. Teams don't need to go through Rome to get to Turin.

An Asuncion > Turin route doesn't make sense either:
1. Teams can get into Turin by the afternoon of 3 Dec.
2. Instead they are seen at Rome on the morning of 4 Dec and check in that same evening.

Can we figure out how we can rearrange the schedule so an arrival in Rome on 4 Dec makes sense? Taking some leaps of faith based on Elizabeth's Twitter posts, she was probably on EasyJet from Rome to Geneva, departing at 9.50am.
Found out that Neobie in Chinese means "f*king awesome"! No, really. Look it up!

Offline georgiapeach

  • Amazing Race Moderator
  • RFF Moderator
  • I Live at RFF
  • *****
  • Posts: 40718
  • TAR Detective
Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #48 on: January 27, 2012, 11:56:43 AM »
Suppose Bavaria comes after?
"Our fans are pretty good. They don't give away too much. Sometimes people love dropping spoilers, but our fans are good. They tend to do it in such a way that doesn't ruin it for fans who don't want to know."--Phil Keoghan

Offline Neobie

  • Amazing Detective
  • TAR Detectives
  • RFF Frantic Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 2029
  • For the winners go to spoil!
Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #49 on: January 27, 2012, 12:16:36 PM »
Bavaria could come after, but then we still have a half-day gap in the afternoon of 3 Dec.

If teams went straight from Asuncion to Turin they'd be racing on the 3rd, not the 4th.
Found out that Neobie in Chinese means "f*king awesome"! No, really. Look it up!


 

Custom Search