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Offline Neobie

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TAR 20 Transport
« on: December 01, 2011, 11:03:09 PM »
So it doesn't spill over and hijack other threads...

LEG ONE

Apskip may have some of this already. But I assume the first leg will be a flight into Buenos Aires, then moving on from there towards another place in Argentina? If so, the two most likely flights from Los Angeles, leaving half an hour apart and arriving an hour apart, are:

AA 276 from Los Angeles to Miami, 2255-0640 (confirmed)
AA 961 from Miami to Buenos Aires, 1055-2150

(There is AR 1303 from Miami to Buenos Aires EZE, 0900-1950, but it's a different airline with no code-share with AA.)

AM 469 from Los Angeles to Mexico City, 2325-0455
AM 30 from Mexico City to Buenos Aires EZE, 0830-2050


Also possible is a flight via Panama City (CM 303 to CM 279 or CM 363), but the first connection's transfer time is too short (38min) and the second one arrives a little too late (0056 the next day).
LP 2605 flies from Los Angeles to Lima to Buenos Aires, but it arrives at 1515, too early for us.
Other flight connections are possible, but they either require changes to different airline alliances or leave/arrive at strange times.

=====

LEG THREE

The AV 88 that Delgado was on left from EZE and not AEP, so teams must have been on this:
PZ 704 from Buenos Aires EZE to Asuncion, 0845-1035
It'd be really strange to have a team check in so late at night, could someone have been caught on a later flight?
AR 1214/PU 703 from Buenos Aires EZE via Montevideo to Asuncion, 0940-1435
PU 366/PU 703 from Buenos Aires EZE via Montevideo to Asuncion, 1040-1435
G3 7431 from Buenos Aires EZE to Asuncion, 1435-1625
« Last Edit: December 02, 2011, 12:49:26 AM by Neobie »
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Offline apskip

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2011, 07:40:00 AM »
Neobie,

Code shares only apply for low-cost flights. Since Amazing Race teams travel on expensive open/refundable Y class tickets, there is no need to worry about interline code-shares.

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Offline Neobie

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2011, 07:52:34 AM »
I was thinking since the race provides tickets for the first leg they would want to keep the logistics cheap/simple...
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Offline Chateau d If

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2011, 10:20:52 AM »
So it doesn't spill over and hijack other threads...

LEG ONE

Apskip may have some of this already. But I assume the first leg will be a flight into Buenos Aires, then moving on from there towards another place in Argentina? If so, the two most likely flights from Los Angeles, leaving half an hour apart and arriving an hour apart, are:

AA 276 from Los Angeles to Miami, 2255-0640 (confirmed)
AA 961 from Miami to Buenos Aires, 1055-2150

(There is AR 1303 from Miami to Buenos Aires EZE, 0900-1950, but it's a different airline with no code-share with AA.)

AM 469 from Los Angeles to Mexico City, 2325-0455
AM 30 from Mexico City to Buenos Aires EZE, 0830-2050


Also possible is a flight via Panama City (CM 303 to CM 279 or CM 363), but the first connection's transfer time is too short (38min) and the second one arrives a little too late (0056 the next day).
LP 2605 flies from Los Angeles to Lima to Buenos Aires, but it arrives at 1515, too early for us.
Other flight connections are possible, but they either require changes to different airline alliances or leave/arrive at strange times.

=====

LEG THREE

The AV 88 that Delgado was on left from EZE and not AEP, so teams must have been on this:
PZ 704 from Buenos Aires EZE to Asuncion, 0845-1035
It'd be really strange to have a team check in so late at night, could someone have been caught on a later flight?
AR 1214/PU 703 from Buenos Aires EZE via Montevideo to Asuncion, 0940-1435
PU 366/PU 703 from Buenos Aires EZE via Montevideo to Asuncion, 1040-1435
G3 7431 from Buenos Aires EZE to Asuncion, 1435-1625


It wasn't Apskp who posted the EZE coincident destination first:   :waves:


Based on flights the only route that seems to work is going to Buenos Aires EZE:

Group 1 (the one we have pictures of at terminal 4):

AA 276 LAX MIA 10:55 pm landing at 6:40 am
AR 1303 MIA EZE 9:00 am landing at 7:50 pm

Group 2:

AM 469 LAX MEX 11:25 pm landing at 4:55 am
AM 30 MEX EZE 8:30 am landing at 8:50 pm


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Offline Dom

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2011, 08:53:33 PM »
Thanks to some more wonderful detective work from Docol, we know that teams are likely on one of the two TAM flights that left after 5.23pm:
6pm to Sao Paolo or 8pm to Montevideo

Our previous info suggests Sao Paulo to get to Germany, but checking in at 5.23pm is really cutting it fine..

The only evening flight to Germany from Sao Paulo is the TAM 11.25pm to Frankfurt, arriving at 2.10pm.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2011, 09:11:48 PM by Dom El »


Offline Neobie

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2011, 09:39:33 PM »
Doesn't look like Montevideo is our destination. If there were to be a leg there TPTB would have probably released them later for a 4.13am or 7.45am flight to arrive in daylight, as opposed to having them hanging around in the dark upon arrival.

That said, if teams don't make the Sao Paulo direct, Montevideo also works as a way to get to Sao Paulo:
PU 704 from Asuncion to Montevideo: 2000-2245
PU 636 from Montevideo to Sao Paulo: 2359-0310
This means, however, that they would have missed all the flights to Europe, until 5.15pm on 3 Dec!

So it looks like teams are on the direct flight:
PZ 712 from Asuncion to Sao Paulo: 1800-2105
Which connects to:
JJ 8062 from Sao Paulo to Milan: 2240-1310, which gets to Munich 1h15 before a Frankfurt connection
JJ 8108 from Sao Paulo to Paris: 2320-1340
JJ 8070 from Sao Paulo to Frankfurt: 2325-1410
TP 86 from Sao Paulo to Lisbon: 2330-1120
JJ 8084 from Sao Paulo to London: 2350-1320
TK 16 from Sao Paulo to Istanbul: 0115-1735

I was looking at connection options via Munich (for production), and almost all of Western Europe can be ruled out. One particular spot we can look at for Legs 4 or 5, though, if Munich is a connection at all, is the Balkans - almost all the cities there are best reached from Sao Paulo via Munich...
« Last Edit: December 02, 2011, 10:20:34 PM by Neobie »
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Offline georgiapeach

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2011, 10:21:28 PM »
From here on out let's put all transport related posts here please...it makes it MUCH simpler to find stuff later!  :ty3:
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Offline apskip

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2011, 07:12:25 PM »
I have been considering the Torino information from a transportation standpoint. If I were wanting to get to Torino, the closest major airports are the 2 in Milan, only 80 miles away. Only if there were  a separate leg in Rome would it make sense to get to Torino from Rome.

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2011, 01:15:00 AM »
Couldn't they just as easily fly to Rome then take a train/bus to Turin? December 4th sees teams in Rome and Phil in Turin shooting stand-ups; while it's possible (and would be nice) to get a Rome leg again, I think TPTB forced the teams to fly to Rome and travel by ground to Turin so Phil/production could get a jump on things by flying to Milan.

Offline georgiapeach

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2011, 05:30:13 AM »
We now have info showing teams arr 12/4 as well...more to come.
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Offline apskip

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2011, 09:51:29 AM »
Couldn't they just as easily fly to Rome then take a train/bus to Turin? December 4th sees teams in Rome and Phil in Turin shooting stand-ups; while it's possible (and would be nice) to get a Rome leg again, I think TPTB forced the teams to fly to Rome and travel by ground to Turin so Phil/production could get a jump on things by flying to Milan.

Yes it is possible, but the 325 miles is an issue (vs. 80 for Milan to Torino). The quickest train schedules from Roma Termini to Torino Puerto Nova required 4 hours 21 minutes while those from Milan are 56 minutes.

There is no issue on Phil getting to Torino ahead of the teams from either Milan or Rome. With a 12 hour pit stop he would be ahead by close to 12 hours because trains run at all hours.

Offline apskip

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2011, 10:04:50 AM »
Just in case my thinking expressed in another thread about Rome being an own-leg airport stop and not just a connection point to Torino is off, I looked at evening connecting flights from Rome to Torino. There is about one every hour up until 950pm. The total flying time is 1 hour 20 minutes.

Offline apskip

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2011, 09:16:55 PM »
In another thread there has been speculation based on the hypothesis that the only flights to HNL are from SYD, ICN or NRT and that Sydney would be preferred. Not according to my analysis. Here are the 12/19 flights into HNL from those airports (note that you gain back the day by crossing the international date line so you land in the morning of the date when you left in the afternoon or early evening):

SYD  2
ICN 3
NRT 8

So this data argues for Narita.

Another perspective is to see if connections can be made from Bangkok for same-day arrival in time to make available above connections. The answer to that one is:

SYD 0 (it doesn't compute)
ICN 2
NRT 5

So it looks to me like probably Narita and maybe Seoul. Remember that David and Jeff going south from Cairns to Sydney in AR4 while Jon/Kelly and Chip/Reichen went to Narita were left "holding the bag." And Cairns is at 17 degrees south latitude while Bangkok is 13 north latitude. Sydney is 34 degrees south and Honolulu 21 degrees north. Seoul is 36 degrees and Narita 37 degrees north.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2011, 03:36:07 PM by apskip »

Offline Chateau d If

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2011, 10:14:58 AM »
There are more flights to consider.  When I said Tokyo I meant all flights from Japan.

That being said I think these flights deserve the highest consideration:  Monday December 19th from Osaka

DL 278 KIX HNL taking off at 8:50 pm arriving 9:30 am
HA 450 KIX HNL taking off at 9:16 pm arriving 9:35 am
JL 78    KIX HNL taking off at 9:25 pm arriving 9:50 am

These all fit the time line of spotting racers at One Waterfront Towers at 10:40 am local time.
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Offline georgiapeach

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2011, 12:15:54 PM »
Getting more info that racers may have been spotted earlier, I think we need to be able to place them there by about 9.
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Offline apskip

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #15 on: December 20, 2011, 02:55:21 PM »
OK, Peach, as the song goes "I Can Do That."

Here are the flights that reached HNL in time for your revised spotting time, all from Narita:

DL638 1859 0621
UA880 1915 0628
CI18    2012 0736
JL76    1955 0718
DL646 2049 0809

Here is the only one from Seoul that fits that criteria:

KE51 1901 0733
« Last Edit: December 20, 2011, 03:05:50 PM by apskip »

Offline apskip

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #16 on: December 20, 2011, 03:04:03 PM »
I will go one step further to see how the connections in Narita from Bangkok to Honolulu line up for same day (Dec. 19). The answer is nicely for these BKK NRT flights:

DL284 0544 1314
UA804 0659 1438
TG676 0823 1605
JL708  0833 1618
NH954 0833 1616

All flights give a connect time ranging from 7.5 hours down to 2.5 hours.
All that is lacking from these is the ability for teams to be spotted in Bangkok anytime later in the day on Dec. 19.
I cannot judge how important that is.

There are no same day flights through Seoul that can connect and get to HNL in time. The only flight close is the prior evening of Dec. 18 BKK ICN KE652 2250 0538.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2011, 03:37:30 PM by apskip »

Offline apskip

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2011, 03:18:16 PM »
For the specific flight information that nixes Sydney as a reasonable connect point between BKK and HNL, here it is:

Latest flight that would work on Dec. 18 BKK SYD EK418 2018 0935+1 connecting to JQ3 SYD HNL 1750 0652

Offline Dom

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #18 on: December 20, 2011, 10:36:42 PM »
The only way teams could be in Osaka and Honolulu on the same day is if they were on one of the following three flights:

DL 278  Delta Air Lines 8:38 PM - 8:31 AM
HA 450  Hawaiian Airlines 9:16 PM - 9:32 AM
JL 78  JAL 9:20 PM - 9:15 AM 

But this would require a very short rest at the Pit Stop in Osaka, even 12 hours wouldn't cut it.

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #19 on: December 20, 2011, 10:45:34 PM »
The only way teams could be in Osaka and Honolulu on the same day is if they were on one of the following three flights:

DL 278  Delta Air Lines 8:38 PM - 8:31 AM
HA 450  Hawaiian Airlines 9:16 PM - 9:32 AM
JL 78  JAL 9:20 PM - 9:15 AM 

But this would require a very short rest at the Pit Stop in Osaka, even 12 hours wouldn't cut it.

We've had shortened Pit Stops after the penultimate Pit Stop (Prague comes to mind, and I think Moscow also). It could also be a zero hour Pit Stop with Phil hauling ass to KIX after eliminating the last team (though this leaves a lot to chance).

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2011, 08:21:29 AM »
Hey, Dom EL and Zack,

Perhaps some information from Peach posted above will put to rest your notions that the flights originated in Osaka:

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
Reply #14 on: Yesterday at 12:15:54 PM

    Quote

Getting more info that racers may have been spotted earlier, I think we need to be able to place them there by about 9.

There means at the site of the high-wire task. Osaka-originated flights are late by at least one hour of doing that. My hypothesis, shown in a different thread above, is that the spotting in Osaka was of decoys and that the real F3 went through Narita slightly earlier (see my post above).

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2011, 10:24:16 AM »
There's pics of Phil + team in Osaka though, which suggests that it's an actual stop.

Though they could always force teams to connect through Tokyo or take alternate methods to get to Tokyo.

Offline georgiapeach

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #22 on: December 21, 2011, 11:23:34 AM »
For heavens sake. Osaka is a real PitStop if I have ever seen one.

There is a Delta flight in from Osaka that arrives 8 something.

We don't know what time the source was in Osaka...he says today which is dated 11/19...but suppose he wrote that at 0001 and was referring to 11/18? I don't have the answer,but in Osaka they were.

Let's go with the obvious for now.

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Offline georgiapeach

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #23 on: December 21, 2011, 11:31:12 AM »
12-19-11

KIX Osaka DL 278  Delta Air Lines  scheduled arr: 9:30 AM  ACTUAL ARR: 8:31 AM 
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Offline walkingpneumonia

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Re: TAR 20 Transport
« Reply #24 on: December 21, 2011, 12:20:00 PM »
The EXIF info on the pitstop pic at Osaka Castle says it was taken at 2011-12-18T23:28:17-05:00.
Osaka is GMT +9 so that would make it  09:28:17 local time in Osaka - Sunday December 18.

So Phil would have no trouble making any of these three departures from Osaka on Sunday December 18th:

HNL Honolulu  DL 278  Delta Air Lines      20:50  20:39  N7 Landed On-time 333  08:31 - Sun 18-Dec-2011
HNL Honolulu  HA 450 Hawaiian Airlines  21:15  21:04 N15 Landed On-time 763  08:33 - Sun 18-Dec-2011
HNL Honolulu  JL 78    JAL                           21:25  21:24  S30  Landed On-time  767  09:07 - Sun 18-Dec-2011

The teams could have had a better than 24 hour pit stop and taken the same flight numbers on Monday December 19:

HNL Honolulu  DL 278  Delta Air Lines  20:50  20:38  N6  Landed On-time 333  08:31 - Mon 19-Dec-2011
HNL Honolulu  HA 450  Hawaiian Airlines  21:15  21:16  N15  Landed On-time 763  09:32 - Mon 19-Dec-2011
HNL Honolulu  JL 78     JAL  21:25  21:20  S30  Landed On-time  767 09:15 - Mon 19-Dec-2011

I think the crossing of the date line is causing some confusion - because the perception is that you arrive at your destination before you left.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2011, 12:25:50 PM by walkingpneumonia »
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