Author Topic: AR19 Primary TRANSPORTATION OPTIONS  (Read 35118 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline redskevin88

  • RFF Frantic Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1823
Re: AR19 Primary TRANSPORTATION OPTIONS
« Reply #150 on: October 27, 2011, 07:33:23 PM »
theschnauzers,

You could very well be correct. However, there would not be a private jet for a 5000+ miles trip, so there must be combinations of flights that the teams take even if they do not control which ones they are on.

apskip, ever heard of chartered flights? or provided tickets?


Offline apskip

  • Geographer Extraordinaire
  • TAR Detectives
  • RFF Frantic Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 6201
Re: AR19 Primary TRANSPORTATION OPTIONS
« Reply #151 on: October 27, 2011, 09:29:18 PM »
redskevin,

Let me repeat:

"You could very well be correct (about provided tickets). However, there would not be a private jet for a 5000+ miles trip, so there must be combinations of flights that the teams take even if they do not control which ones they are on."

Since you don't understand what I said, I will go through the logic of this. While it is true that there are very occasionally chartered flights, THERE WOULD NOT BE A PRIVATE JET FOR A 5000+ MILE TRIP. The reason is simple economics of operating a jet for long distances. There are economies of scale which demand that 200+ passenger planes make flights of that length. That is my opinion and you are free to disagree with it. We'll see who is correct. If there is ever a flight segment where a private plane makes sense, it is Johannesburg to Lilongwe because of the low frequency of weekly flights. Even there, World Race Productions elected to go with commercial flights.

Offline apskip

  • Geographer Extraordinaire
  • TAR Detectives
  • RFF Frantic Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 6201
Re: AR19 Primary TRANSPORTATION OPTIONS
« Reply #152 on: October 27, 2011, 10:14:36 PM »
I want to mail the lid on the coffin for this. Here is the list of the 4 charter flights in the entire history of the U.S. Amazing Race:

AR1, Cape Aviation Business Centre, teams had to sign up for one of two charter flights to Walvis Bay, Namibia at 9:00 am and 12:00 pm  Capetown to Walvis Bay  794  miles
AR2, Adelaide (National Jet Systems Terminal) to Coober Pedy (Coober Pedy Airport)
Adelaide to Cooper Pedy  435  miles
AR5, Nairobi (Jomo Kenyatta International Airport - Z. Boskovic Air Charters) to Kilimanjaro, Tanzania  Nairobi to Kilimanjaro  126  miles
AR6, Addis Ababa (Bole International Airport) to Lalibela (Lalibela Airport)  Addis Ababa to Laibela  208 miles
Since AR6, no charter flights that I can locate.

In other words, these are all flights of well under 1000 miles.

Offline theschnauzers

  • TAR Detectives
  • RFF Frantic Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 2866
  • An original TARfly
Re: AR19 Primary TRANSPORTATION OPTIONS
« Reply #153 on: October 27, 2011, 11:51:52 PM »
To be clear, my last post was suggesting provided tickets. In recent seasons, this has been done, and teams were free to find earlier arriving flights if they could find them.  In this instance, from the flight frequency, the number of flight legs and connections, the apparently emergency substitution of the Thailand legs, and the time frame between the Bangkok pit stop and the sighting on the flight to Malawi, it would be a very sound thing for production to do.

-- theschnauzers

Offline georgiapeach

  • Amazing Race Moderator
  • RFF Moderator
  • I Live at RFF
  • *****
  • Posts: 40586
  • TAR Detective
Re: AR19 Primary TRANSPORTATION OPTIONS
« Reply #154 on: October 28, 2011, 01:45:42 AM »
CORRECTED:
** means confirmed flight sightings

June 24>>flying to Phuket, late eve arrival **
June 25>>Phuket leg + 24 hour 48 hour Pitstop
June 27>>more Phuket/Phang Nga, overnight bus ride Phuket to Bangkok
June 28>> Bangkok leg, usual Pitstop

June 29>>begin travel to Malawi, dep Bangkok
June 30>>Malawi arrival (via Joburg)**
"Our fans are pretty good. They don't give away too much. Sometimes people love dropping spoilers, but our fans are good. They tend to do it in such a way that doesn't ruin it for fans who don't want to know."--Phil Keoghan


Offline Neobie

  • Amazing Detective
  • TAR Detectives
  • RFF Frantic Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 2020
  • For the winners go to spoil!
Re: AR19 Primary TRANSPORTATION OPTIONS
« Reply #155 on: October 28, 2011, 06:10:30 AM »
Ah, thanks Peach! Here's a shot of Cathi's watch as they were leaving the Pit Start at Phuket. Certainly looks more like a "MO 6 27" than a "SU 6 26" eh?
Found out that Neobie in Chinese means "f*king awesome"! No, really. Look it up!

Offline apskip

  • Geographer Extraordinaire
  • TAR Detectives
  • RFF Frantic Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 6201
Re: AR19 Primary TRANSPORTATION OPTIONS
« Reply #156 on: November 14, 2011, 07:56:20 AM »
It's been over 2 weeks since this thread last had a post, but we now know what teams actually did in getting from LLW to CPH. There were no flights out on July 3 except via Lusaka onward to Nairobi on KQ732 1255 0545+1. There the teams split up. It looks like Laurence/Zac had a better travel agent in Malawi. They got this itinerary:

NBO LHR VS72 0942+1 1644+1
LHR CPH SK1516 1815+1 2106+1 (36 minutes later than as reported in the telecast)

The other teams would have taken NBO AMS KQ166 0810+1 1555+1.

If they were quick or slow on the International to International connection at AMS, they would have gotten Cimber Airlines (I have never heard of it) QI3534 2045+1 2241+1. That arrived with 2 of the teams 19 minutes after the reported-on-the-telecast 1030pm arrival in Copenhagen. 2 other teams were on Norwegian Air 3541 2115 2310.
 
Marcus and Amani elected to stay in AMS airport rather than getting booked all the way to Copenhagen (what were they thinking?). They still had the opportunity to get into the mix of all 5 teams ahead of them by taking:

SQ7364 0125+2 0255+2 but they passed that up too.

They actually took on July 4 SK560 0655+2 0820+2

« Last Edit: November 14, 2011, 12:53:50 PM by apskip »

Offline apskip

  • Geographer Extraordinaire
  • TAR Detectives
  • RFF Frantic Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 6201
Re: AR19 Primary TRANSPORTATION OPTIONS
« Reply #157 on: November 14, 2011, 10:13:10 AM »
I have taken a look at the new Lego-Land photos and have withdrawn my bold prediction. From Copenhagen to Billund, there are 3 major ways of getting there (I once took a train in the reverse direction, so I know that's easy):

train - about 3 hours
bus - about 3 hours
flight - about 1 hour + hassle time before and after in airports on both ends; they were 7 flights on July 6


From Billund to Brussels is 390 miles. They could take a train (particularly an overnight), but they probably will fly. Here is the sparse schedule of what actually happened on July 7:

EZ8221 0725 0834
EZ8223 1750 1917
« Last Edit: November 14, 2011, 10:39:54 AM by apskip »

Offline kiki

  • RFF Frantic Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1058
Re: AR19 Primary TRANSPORTATION OPTIONS
« Reply #158 on: November 14, 2011, 10:39:46 AM »
I am going to make a bold prediction. Transportation from Copenhagen to Belgium will be overnight on the moving pit stop ship Havet.

Since Brussels is land-locked, there are 3 ports where a ship could get close:
Antwerp
Mechelen
Ghent

Check out the episode thread, we already know they are going to Billund, which has an international airport, where they could find a flight.
Joab's TARA- Kiki & Co-racer. Hitting the BlackJack tables in Macau
Sam's race- Kiki & Philimination, Scrubling in Shibuya 7176JPY

Offline apskip

  • Geographer Extraordinaire
  • TAR Detectives
  • RFF Frantic Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 6201
Re: AR19 Primary TRANSPORTATION OPTIONS
« Reply #159 on: November 14, 2011, 10:42:29 AM »
kiki,

You are right, but I did not know about the LegoLand photos when i made my prediction. I have revised it to go on one of 3 modes listed above from Copenhagen to Brussels and then probably by plane from Billund to Brussels. Take a look at my revised post above for details.


Offline apskip

  • Geographer Extraordinaire
  • TAR Detectives
  • RFF Frantic Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 6201
Re: AR19 Primary TRANSPORTATION OPTIONS
« Reply #160 on: November 14, 2011, 11:05:03 AM »
I think we know enough about timing to take a crack at Brussels to Panama City. I will be using July 8 as the time for the flights below.

There are only 2 flights which can make the optimal connection, which is in Amsterdam. They are:

WA1720 0605 0638
WA1722 0838 0914

Any flights after that are not in time to connect to:

KL757 AMS PTY 1153 1658

Offline apskip

  • Geographer Extraordinaire
  • TAR Detectives
  • RFF Frantic Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 6201
Re: AR19 Primary TRANSPORTATION OPTIONS
« Reply #161 on: November 16, 2011, 07:33:22 PM »
The question of rail fare Copenhagen to Billund has come up in another thread. I want to address it here.

"6/11/2007

Question

Thanks in advance for your help - I need to know how much I need to budget for a train ticket between Veije and Copenhagen. I think Veije is near Billund (note - it is about 18 miles east).

I plan to arrive to Veije via Billund airport and take a train to Copenhagen - Do you think I need to buy the train ticket in advance? I will be there this Thursday.

Is it expensive to travel by train? How much do you think a one-way ticket should be?

Thanks a lot for all your help.

Answer
Welcome to Denmark !   The weather is excellent right now.
The ticket will cost you dkk 63, or about usd 11."

USD11 would have been maybe 9 euros, which is not 19 euros. I also doubt that the rail fare could have increased that much in either currency in 4 years of little inflation.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2011, 07:37:05 PM by apskip »

Offline apskip

  • Geographer Extraordinaire
  • TAR Detectives
  • RFF Frantic Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 6201
Re: AR19 Primary TRANSPORTATION OPTIONS
« Reply #162 on: November 16, 2011, 07:54:15 PM »
Getting from Billund to Hamburg is complicated. In fact, it is the most difficult set of transportation connections ever in the Amazing Race if teams do eschew flying. Here are some of the major possibilities (there are plenty more since trains in Europe run about every hour on major routes):

dep. 0535 arr. 1142  Bus 44 > Bus 82 > walk > train RA5105 > train 5517

dep. 0622 arr. 1248 same as above

dep. 0711 arr. 1248 Bus 44 > walk > train RA3717 > train 5219

Offline apskip

  • Geographer Extraordinaire
  • TAR Detectives
  • RFF Frantic Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 6201
Re: AR19 Primary TRANSPORTATION OPTIONS
« Reply #163 on: November 16, 2011, 08:06:29 PM »
Here are schedules from Hamburg to Brussels by rail, then on to Brussels and Ghent, with the Hamburg departures connecting from the Billund arrival times shown above:

dep. Hamburg            1201    1346    1401
arr. Brussels Central   1846    2046    2046

dep. Brussels Central 1900    2100    2100
arr. Ghent                   1938    2138    2138

Offline mds1978

  • RFF Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 55
Re: AR19 Primary TRANSPORTATION OPTIONS
« Reply #164 on: November 17, 2011, 02:13:54 AM »
I want to mail the lid on the coffin for this. Here is the list of the 4 charter flights in the entire history of the U.S. Amazing Race:

AR1, Cape Aviation Business Centre, teams had to sign up for one of two charter flights to Walvis Bay, Namibia at 9:00 am and 12:00 pm  Capetown to Walvis Bay  794  miles
AR2, Adelaide (National Jet Systems Terminal) to Coober Pedy (Coober Pedy Airport)
Adelaide to Cooper Pedy  435  miles
AR5, Nairobi (Jomo Kenyatta International Airport - Z. Boskovic Air Charters) to Kilimanjaro, Tanzania  Nairobi to Kilimanjaro  126  miles
AR6, Addis Ababa (Bole International Airport) to Lalibela (Lalibela Airport)  Addis Ababa to Laibela  208 miles
Since AR6, no charter flights that I can locate.

In other words, these are all flights of well under 1000 miles.

uh...you sure?

AR18, Sydney to Broken Hill  600 miles

:lol3:

Offline apskip

  • Geographer Extraordinaire
  • TAR Detectives
  • RFF Frantic Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 6201
Re: AR19 Primary TRANSPORTATION OPTIONS
« Reply #165 on: November 17, 2011, 12:58:54 PM »
Regional Express is a scheduled airline, so AR18 teams were NOT on a charter flight. For example for the date Nov. 23, 2010 here was the schedule for SYD BHQ:

ZL 9578         Regional Express    06:05    07:55 
      
ZL 9596         Regional Express    06:30    08:20        
      
ZL 878         Regional Express    18:20    20:10          

Offline mds1978

  • RFF Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 55
Re: AR19 Primary TRANSPORTATION OPTIONS
« Reply #166 on: November 17, 2011, 01:09:30 PM »
Regional Express is a scheduled airline, so AR18 teams were NOT on a charter flight. For example for the date Nov. 23, 2010 here was the schedule for SYD BHQ:

ZL 9578         Regional Express    06:05    07:55 
      
ZL 9596         Regional Express    06:30    08:20        
      
ZL 878         Regional Express    18:20    20:10

http://www.cbs.com/shows/amazing_race/episodes/54879

From the OFFICIAL CBS episode recap:

“The first six teams to sign up there would be on the first of two charter flights to Broken Hill, a small mining town 684 miles from Sydney.”

:lol3:



Offline mds1978

  • RFF Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 55
Re: AR19 Primary TRANSPORTATION OPTIONS
« Reply #167 on: November 17, 2011, 01:39:50 PM »
I want to examine the speculation by Dr. Rox that World Race Productions chartered 2 flights on Tuesaday 11/23/10 to get teams from Sydney to Broken Hill quickly, necessitated by the Indian Pacific train schedule back from Broken Hill to Sydney. Those flights are:
ZL9678 and ZL9596

The numbering system used by Regional Express has only 3-digit numbers for any flights from Sydney, including 2 daily to Broken Hill. If the ultimate destination is Adelaide then a 4-digit flight number beginning with a "4" to Adelaide from a connecting point can happen. If the ultimate destination is Melbourne then a 4-digit flight number beginning with a "3" to Melbourne from a connecting point can happen. There are some 4-digit flight numbers beginning with a "5" elsewhere in the Regional Express system, but no 4-digit flight numbers beginning with a "9". I conclude that Dr. Rox is correct. We should see soon enough.

 :gj:

 :lol3:

Offline apskip

  • Geographer Extraordinaire
  • TAR Detectives
  • RFF Frantic Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 6201
Re: AR19 Primary TRANSPORTATION OPTIONS
« Reply #168 on: November 17, 2011, 02:37:32 PM »
mds1978,

You do indeed get the last laugh. Although there are several scheduled flights between Sydney and Broken Hill, most connecting in Dubbo, the actual flights taken by AR18 teams were a charter at 605am and another charter at 630am. Here is the regular schedule:
   
Rex - Regional Express Airlines
Flight 878   SF3
More Information       Sydney (SYD)
Broken Hill (BHQ)    06:20pm -23Nov, Wed
08:20pm -23Nov, Wed    Nonstop
Coach
2hr 30min
   Flight Duration : 2hr 30min       Total Trip Time: 2hr 30min    
$335
   
Rex - Regional Express Airlines
Flight 836   SF3
More Information       Sydney (SYD)
Dubbo (DBO)    07:10pm -23Nov, Wed
08:20pm -23Nov, Wed    Nonstop
Coach
1hr 10min
Connecting flight wait time 15 hours 10 minutes
   
Rex - Regional Express Airlines
Flight 862   SF3
More Information       Dubbo (DBO)
Broken Hill (BHQ)    11:30am -24Nov, Thu
12:45pm -24Nov, Thu    Nonstop
Coach
1hr 45min
   Flight Duration : 2hr 55min    Layover Time : 15hr 10min    Total Trip Time: 18hr 05min    
   
Rex - Regional Express Airlines
Flight 834   SF3
More Information       Sydney (SYD)
Dubbo (DBO)    04:55pm -23Nov, Wed
06:05pm -23Nov, Wed    Nonstop
Coach
1hr 10min
Connecting flight wait time 17 hours 25 minutes
   
Rex - Regional Express Airlines
Flight 862   SF3
More Information       Dubbo (DBO)
Broken Hill (BHQ)    11:30am -24Nov, Thu
12:45pm -24Nov, Thu    Nonstop
Coach
1hr 45min
   Flight Duration : 2hr 55min    Layover Time : 17hr 25min    Total Trip Time: 20hr 20min    
$335
[Total Incl. fees excl. taxes]
   
   
Rex - Regional Express Airlines
Flight 832   SF3
More Information       Sydney (SYD)
Dubbo (DBO)    03:30pm -23Nov, Wed
04:40pm -23Nov, Wed    Nonstop
Coach
1hr 10min
Connecting flight wait time 18 hours 50 minutes
   
Rex - Regional Express Airlines
Flight 862   SF3
More Information       Dubbo (DBO)
Broken Hill (BHQ)    11:30am -24Nov, Thu
12:45pm -24Nov, Thu    Nonstop
Coach
1hr 45min
   Flight Duration : 2hr 55min    Layover Time : 18hr 50min    Total Trip Time: 21hr 45min    
$335
[Total Incl. fees excl. taxes]
   
   
Rex - Regional Express Airlines
Flight 828   SF3
More Information       Sydney (SYD)
Dubbo (DBO)    12:20pm -23Nov, Wed
01:30pm -23Nov, Wed    Nonstop
Coach
1hr 10min
Connecting flight wait time 22 hours 0 minutes
   
Rex - Regional Express Airlines
Flight 862   SF3
More Information       Dubbo (DBO)
Broken Hill (BHQ)    11:30am -24Nov, Thu
12:45pm -24Nov, Thu    Nonstop
Coach
1hr 45min
   Flight Duration : 2hr 55min    Layover Time : 22hr 0min    Total Trip Time: 24hr 55min    
   
Rex - Regional Express Airlines
Flight 862   SF3
More Information       Sydney (SYD)
Broken Hill (BHQ)    10:00am -23Nov, Wed
12:45pm -23Nov, Wed    1 Stop
Coach
3hr 15min
   Flight Duration : 3hr 15min       Total Trip Time: 3hr 15min    
   
Rex - Regional Express Airlines
Flight 824   SF3
More Information       Sydney (SYD)
Dubbo (DBO)    08:20am -23Nov, Wed
09:30am -23Nov, Wed    Nonstop
Coach
1hr 10min
   
Rex - Regional Express Airlines
Flight 862   SF3
More Information       Dubbo (DBO)
Broken Hill (BHQ)    11:30am -23Nov, Wed
12:45pm -23Nov, Wed    Nonstop
Coach
1hr 45min
   Flight Duration : 2hr 55min    Layover Time : 2hr 0min    Total Trip Time: 4hr 55min    
   
Rex - Regional Express Airlines
Flight 822   SF3
More Information       Sydney (SYD)
Dubbo (DBO)    06:30am -23Nov, Wed
07:40am -23Nov, Wed    Nonstop
Coach
1hr 10min
   
Rex - Regional Express Airlines
Flight 862   SF3
More Information       Dubbo (DBO)
Broken Hill (BHQ)    11:30am -23Nov, Wed
12:45pm -23Nov, Wed    Nonstop
Coach
1hr 45min
   Flight Duration : 2hr 55min    Layover Time : 3hr 50min    Total Trip Time: 6hr 45min

Offline apskip

  • Geographer Extraordinaire
  • TAR Detectives
  • RFF Frantic Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 6201
Re: AR19 Primary TRANSPORTATION OPTIONS
« Reply #169 on: November 21, 2011, 09:11:59 AM »
Some research on train schedules from Hamburg to Cologne and Cologne to Brussels turns up some interesting nuggets.

From Hamburg to Cologne there is a huge hole in the schedule from 601pm until 1046pm departures. I am sure that World Race Productions planned on all teams having to wait until 1046pm. Even if they had made it to Cologne, they still would not have been getting ahead of the 644am train from Cologne to Brussels. And even if they somehow did the first task in Brussels would surely have caused a Hours of Operation delay.

The overnight travel was OK as long as teams were sleeping from Hamburg to Cologne, but then there was a 3 3/4 hour delay waiting for the train to Brussels. that ust have been uncomfortable in the middle of the night.

Offline Chateau d If

  • Captain of the Obvious
  • TAR Detectives
  • RFF Frantic Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 4635
  • Missing Apskip :(
Re: AR19 Primary TRANSPORTATION OPTIONS
« Reply #170 on: November 21, 2011, 11:01:01 AM »
This is what I had dug up yesterday:
Documenting her Race Around the World:  Wild Eyes
Our children, what are they going to amount to?

Offline apskip

  • Geographer Extraordinaire
  • TAR Detectives
  • RFF Frantic Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 6201
Re: AR19 Primary TRANSPORTATION OPTIONS
« Reply #171 on: November 21, 2011, 12:17:53 PM »
Chateau,

I realize that my information from the dBahn website may not properly reflect trains around July 6 or 7, but let's assume they do. Here are the available trains from Cologne to Brussels-Central:

Koln Hbf   dep    06:44      1:58    
Bruxelles-Central    Tu, 29.11.11    arr    08:42
Köln Hbf
   Tu, 29.11.11    dep    07:42      1:53        ICE, IC    
Bruxelles-Central    Tu, 29.11.11    arr    09:35
Köln Hbf
   Tu, 29.11.11    dep    08:44      2:02        
Bruxelles-Central    Tu, 29.11.11    arr    10:46

Hourly trains to start arriving relatively early in the business day is what I find typical of all German rail main lines. Translated, that means I expect that your leaving out the earlier 644am train is incorrect unless you have some  way of establishing what that schedule was in early July (it is very probably the same as now).

The dBahn website also listed the change of trains in Cologne between Hamburg and Brussels to be possible with the 1046pm connecting to the 644am train.

Offline Chateau d If

  • Captain of the Obvious
  • TAR Detectives
  • RFF Frantic Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 4635
  • Missing Apskip :(
Re: AR19 Primary TRANSPORTATION OPTIONS
« Reply #172 on: November 21, 2011, 07:42:08 PM »
The DB Bahn website seems reliable for dates in the past.  It tells you it's in the past when it is.  By changing the date the outcome varies according to what the schedule were then.   Here's the website (there is an English version but I couldn't find it this time):

http://www.bahn.de/p/view/index.shtml

I tried to find the 6:44 am train and it does not seem to start running until on/after November 5th.  I don't think it was available on July 6th.
Documenting her Race Around the World:  Wild Eyes
Our children, what are they going to amount to?

Offline apskip

  • Geographer Extraordinaire
  • TAR Detectives
  • RFF Frantic Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 6201
Re: AR19 Primary TRANSPORTATION OPTIONS
« Reply #173 on: December 05, 2011, 08:49:12 AM »
The telecast of AR19, ep. 11 confirms that the route is via Amsterdam to Panama City's Tocumen Airport. There is one flight per day, KL757 nonstop. Since I am not sure whether this leg started on July 7 or 8, that flight timing was:

7/7 1335 1713
7/8 1435 1804

On either day, sunset was at 1842.

Offline apskip

  • Geographer Extraordinaire
  • TAR Detectives
  • RFF Frantic Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 6201
Re: AR19 Primary TRANSPORTATION OPTIONS
« Reply #174 on: December 05, 2011, 08:58:33 AM »
Trains on the Eurail system go from Brussels to Amsterdam's Schiphol Airport directly in 1 hour 38 minutes. The schedule is for departures from Brussels Central station at 50 after each hour (except not 1250p) and arrival at 28 after the 2nd following hour. To make scheduled international flight, teams would have to leave Brussels by probably 850am. Based on leaving in the dark, they clearly had a lot of extra time.


 

Custom Search