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Author Topic: AR19 Primary TRANSPORTATION OPTIONS  (Read 33894 times)

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Offline Neobie

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Re: AR19 Primary TRANSPORTATION OPTIONS
« Reply #125 on: October 21, 2011, 08:24:24 PM »
I don't think we have a date for that spoiler, so I looked at flights, both direct and connecting, from Ethiopia to Italy between 2 and 4 Jul.

If the flight where the spoiler met the teams was on 2 Jul, they would arrive in Copenhagen at 11.05am on 3 Jul, too early for a normal overnight Hours of Operation. If the flight was on 3 Jul (or later), teams would arrive after 9.20am on 4 Jul, too late to make the Hours of Operation bunching, and would also have better options than travelling through Addis Ababa (for example, Lilongwe-Nairobi-Amsterdam-Copenhagen, arriving 8.20am on 4 Jul).
« Last Edit: October 21, 2011, 08:33:42 PM by Neobie »
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Offline Chateau d If

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Re: AR19 Primary TRANSPORTATION OPTIONS
« Reply #126 on: October 21, 2011, 08:42:38 PM »
That's a good bit of research!  We may have to wait for the show to figure it out.   :duno:
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Online georgiapeach

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Re: AR19 Primary TRANSPORTATION OPTIONS
« Reply #127 on: October 21, 2011, 08:49:53 PM »
I think they must have left on July 2.5. :lol:

You guys are AWESOME!!!
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Offline Neobie

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Re: AR19 Primary TRANSPORTATION OPTIONS
« Reply #128 on: October 22, 2011, 01:30:03 AM »
Took a look at the original blog. I don't see anything about the blogger being in Ethiopia at all. It's been a little bit of a wild goose chase hasn't it?

So now I'm thinking, since flights are so far and few between, TPTB would have wanted to get everyone to Nairobi together at least. What happens after that doesn't really matter because of the overnight hold-up at Copenhagen.
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Online georgiapeach

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Re: AR19 Primary TRANSPORTATION OPTIONS
« Reply #129 on: October 22, 2011, 09:05:30 AM »
There used to be a fair bit about the mission she was invoved in there.... I paid attention because of my own Ethiopia experience.
"Our fans are pretty good. They don't give away too much. Sometimes people love dropping spoilers, but our fans are good. They tend to do it in such a way that doesn't ruin it for fans who don't want to know."--Phil Keoghan


Offline theschnauzers

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Re: AR19 Primary TRANSPORTATION OPTIONS
« Reply #130 on: October 22, 2011, 11:18:19 AM »
What about a producer-supplied charter flight to get out of Malawi? Wouldn't that simplify some of the travel issues.
One thing I'm sure TPTB did this time was to work on avoiding the problems the teams had in getting out of Africa during TARAS. A charter flight (using a smaller aircraft, presumably) would get them out of the scheduling problem. The other reason I think this is a possibility is that TPTB have to get Phil to the European destination ahead of the teams, if possible.
I could see why they'd use an artificial hours of operation if necessary to assure all the teams got to that point without vbeing penalized for the lack of flights. We already had one "artificial" HOO this season (and those have been rare in recent seasons.)
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Re: AR19 Primary TRANSPORTATION OPTIONS
« Reply #131 on: October 22, 2011, 12:26:58 PM »
But we have sightings on regular flights.
"Our fans are pretty good. They don't give away too much. Sometimes people love dropping spoilers, but our fans are good. They tend to do it in such a way that doesn't ruin it for fans who don't want to know."--Phil Keoghan

Offline Chateau d If

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Re: AR19 Primary TRANSPORTATION OPTIONS
« Reply #132 on: October 22, 2011, 12:37:29 PM »
Well, the NBO to AMS was a regular flight with a sighting.  But getting to NBO by the Lilongwe/Lusaka midnight flight was not sighted and we had to piece that together. 

I forget who figured it out.  It wasn't me!   :tup:
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Offline apskip

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Re: AR19 Primary TRANSPORTATION OPTIONS
« Reply #133 on: October 26, 2011, 06:58:48 AM »
Here is a scenario which is quite real:

The first 5 teams being released in Bangkok (Marcus/Amani, Bill/Cathi, Ernie/Cindy, Andy/Tommy, Justin/Jennifer) for the airport should have no trouble meeting the 108a departure for TG703 to Johannesburg because they checked in perhaps 15.5 hours or slightly less before it.

However, the last 2 teams (Jeremy/Sandy and Laurence/Zac) could not have checked in before noon since Laurence/Zac were on the bus 2.5 hours behind the 530pm express bus that carried the top 3 teams. They are going to be in big trouble making it to Bangkok International Airport, checking in for the flight and then making it through security if there is a 12 hour pit stop.

I have looked at these alternatives:
Addis Ababa - leaves in the hour before TG703
Nairobi - leaves in the hour before TG703
Singapore - nothing fits
Mumbai - nothing fits
Delhi - nothing fits
So, my conclusion is that any team who misses TG703 is in big trouble, as I have found no way for them to lose 24 hours for arrival in Lilongwe.  In particular I found no flights into Lilongwe on June 30 other than SA170, which is the one connecting to TG703.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2011, 07:07:18 AM by apskip »

Offline lovetherace

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Re: AR19 Primary TRANSPORTATION OPTIONS
« Reply #134 on: October 26, 2011, 07:27:12 AM »
Just a note - Laurence and Zac arrived at the mat at the same time as Andy and Tommy.  So they will be together, whether with the first group or the second. 

Since Andy and Tommy were on a 4:30 bus, even if not express, they must have bled a lot of time at the school.



Offline apskip

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Re: AR19 Primary TRANSPORTATION OPTIONS
« Reply #135 on: October 26, 2011, 08:39:49 AM »
lovetherace,
I just learned that too, by getting to the end of the weekly insider videos. That means that the spread from #6 to #7 is probably not too wide, as Jeremy/Sandy were on the 430pm bus. They did dissipate what was a 2.5 hour lead on Laurence/Zac but if they were close behind them they could be OK. On the flip side, you now cause me to worry about Andy/Tommy, as we could see on the telecast that they had a major delay before reaching and arriving at that school. They would have to be in the noon check-in time zone, which gives them just over 1 hour to get to Suvarnabhumi Airport (BKK).

Offline apskip

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Re: AR19 Primary TRANSPORTATION OPTIONS
« Reply #136 on: October 26, 2011, 08:51:54 AM »
Somewhere in the extra videos for leg 5 is the information that the second-class (I assume this is the class actually purchased) bus trip from Phuket to Bangkok (all 550km or 340 miles) costs only $15. What a bargain!

Offline lovetherace

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Re: AR19 Primary TRANSPORTATION OPTIONS
« Reply #137 on: October 26, 2011, 09:09:26 AM »
Also, just double checked - Ernie & Cindi were on a bus by themselves.  Marcus & Amani were together with Bill & Cathi on a different bus.  I do think both buses were 5:30 buses.

Don't know if E&C knew they were actually in first place at the fish feeding location.  They were so glad to come in third; might have been first if they stayed in the cab.  Could really be kicking themselves right now.

Question - would TPTB adjust the pitstop time in order to overcome the potential issue with flight times out of Bangkok?

Also, do you know the cost of a flight between Phuket and Bangkok? Someone on Twop said the 4500 baht paid to the taxi drivers equaled the cost of a plane ticket - round trip!
« Last Edit: October 26, 2011, 09:19:59 AM by lovetherace »

Offline theschnauzers

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Re: AR19 Primary TRANSPORTATION OPTIONS
« Reply #138 on: October 26, 2011, 11:35:51 AM »
We can no longer assume a standard pit stop of 12 hours for any leg. That's been true for a few races now.
A no pitstop rest period is just as likely as one that extends beyond 24 to 36 hours. The producers will undoubtedly adjust the rest period at the pit stop in order to eliminate problems with teams making a sole once-daily flight to the next destination, especially here. If this last leg was an emergency replacement leg, including having teams reach Bangkok for the pit stop, then I'm sure the rest period will be adjusted so that all teams make that once daily flight.
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Re: AR19 Primary TRANSPORTATION OPTIONS
« Reply #139 on: October 26, 2011, 01:00:04 PM »
We have had 10 hour Pitstops before in order to catch a flight... But why do we think they have to rush at all?

Could someone please (re) spell out where we were on what days? I was still thinking we had an extended PitStop in Bangkok of up to 48 hours before departure.

Can someone check my days and tell me where I might have gone wrong please? ???

** means confirmed flight sightings

June 24>>flying to Phuket, late eve arrival **
June 25>>Phuket leg + 24 hour Pitstop
June 26>>more Phuket/Phang Nga, overnight bus ride Phuket to Bangkok
June 27>> Bangkok leg

black hole


June 30>>dep Bangkok
June 30>>Malawi arrival (via Joburg)**
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Offline Neobie

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Re: AR19 Primary TRANSPORTATION OPTIONS
« Reply #140 on: October 26, 2011, 06:04:07 PM »
I'll work backwards from the flight from Johannesburg to Lilongwe, SA 170 (30 Jun 1000-1225).

Now the direct flight from Bangkok to Johannesburg that Apskip has above doesn't fly on this day of the week. However, teams leaving Bangkok the evening of 29 Jun have plenty of other options (showing the quickest itineraries only), all connecting to the same Johannesburg to Lilongwe flight above:
3K 514 then SQ 478 via Singapore to Johannesburg (29 Jun 2120 - 30 Jun 0700)
AK 751 then MH 203 via Kuala Lumpur to Johannesburg (29 Jun 2020 - 30 Jun 0600)
CX 702 then CX 749 via Hong Kong to Johannesburg (29 Jun 1840 - 30 Jun 0700)

The first four teams checked in at 9.30am on 27 Jun. TPTB should be fine in having teams depart the early afternoon of 29 Jun, so I'd say probably a good 50 hour Pit Stop? The easiest explanation is that the replaced legs probably required more travel to get to Lilongwe, and hence the extra time that production got to twiddle with their thumbs...

A truly daring team that was released too early can try this itinerary to gain a full... ten minutes!
Bangkok to Singapore (29 Jun 1115-1430) to Perth (1550-2105) to Johannesburg (2350-0520)
To Lusaka (30 Jun 0635-0830) to Lilongwe (1105-1215)

For record's sake, here are the timings of the first four Pit Stops:
Taipei (12h), Yogyakarta I (22h), Yogyakarta II (18h), Phuket (24h)
« Last Edit: October 26, 2011, 06:10:52 PM by Neobie »
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Offline apskip

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Re: AR19 Primary TRANSPORTATION OPTIONS
« Reply #141 on: October 26, 2011, 07:53:11 PM »
We have had 10 hour Pitstops before in order to catch a flight... But why do we think they have to rush at all?

Could someone please (re) spell out where we were on what days? I was still thinking we had an extended PitStop in Bangkok of up to 48 hours before departure.

Can someone check my days and tell me where I might have gone wrong please? ???

** means confirmed flight sightings

June 24>>flying to Phuket, late eve arrival **
June 25>>Phuket leg + 24 hour Pitstop
June 26>>more Phuket/Phang Nga, overnight bus ride Phuket to Bangkok
June 27>> Bangkok leg

black hole


June 30>>dep Bangkok
June 30>>Malawi arrival (via Joburg)**

I admit I did not give this a lot of thought. However, what we know is that the full Phuket area leg (#4) was begun on June 24 and completed June 25. I assume that the Phuket/Bangkok leg (#5) started on June 26 and finished on June 27 at around 930am to about noon for the 7 remaining teams. That means there are about 51 hours before the leading teams need to be at Bangkok airport. It also means that the lagging teams have about 48 hours before they need to be there, assuming the June 30 TG703 departure which connects them perfectly to SA170 in Johannesburg. Allowing ample safety factor against the possibility that adverse weather in route to JNB affects that connection, if I were World Race Productions with that much cushion I would use a bit of it to get them to JNB sooner than the 3 hours connection that I otherwise forsee. I don't know which flight teams might take (and I think they could well spread out) but I am going to figure it out (check back in this post soon) and I bet WRP was able to too. 

Offline apskip

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Re: AR19 Primary TRANSPORTATION OPTIONS
« Reply #142 on: October 26, 2011, 08:14:58 PM »
I have done due diligence based on the assumption that teams MAY have left Bangkok a day earlier than necessary to provide the cushion delineated in my prior post above.

I found that departure from Bangkok to Addis Ababa on ET609 0115 0630 June 29 connected with ET809 0840 1320 and teams under this scenario waited at JNB (where I believe they could well have been spotted if so) until SA170 on June 30.

The departure from Bangkok to Nairobi would be similar.

So would the departure from Bangkok to Dubai.

My analysis of Singapore (except for that weird route down to Perth and then across the Indian Ocean) is unchanged from yesterday. Also my analysis of Mumbai and Delhi is unchanged. 

Offline Neobie

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Re: AR19 Primary TRANSPORTATION OPTIONS
« Reply #143 on: October 27, 2011, 06:46:40 AM »
Apskip, I don't think the Bangkok-Johannesburg flight runs on the evening of 29 Jun/morning of 30 Jun. Read my post above yours.
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Offline apskip

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Re: AR19 Primary TRANSPORTATION OPTIONS
« Reply #144 on: October 27, 2011, 07:37:22 AM »
Deep in the bowels of this thread, I had it right (nonstop TG703 BKK JNB early Wednesday 29 June 0115+1 0730+1, but this does not work for early Thursday morning in post #63 on July 1), but thanks for reminding me, Neobie.

That means TG703 works for June 29, with a 27 hour layover near Oliver Tambo airport in Johannesburg until SA170 departs.

The alternative through Singapore and Perth is delineated by both me and by Neobie as long as any BKK SIN flight leaves by 11am. However, the more direct route involving SQ478 0210 0649 works with any BKK SIN flight on June 29 but only the SQ478 on June 30 is a possible conncction.

Addis Ababa works on June 29 with BKK ADD ET609/607 0035 0525 combined with ET763 1036 1631 or ET765 1442 2050.

I find the most interesting connection point NBO. One June 29, KQ887 0055 0625 gets you to Nairobi early enough to connect with KQ722 0825 0935. Why didn't teams take that? It makes no sense to me unless their travel agents did not find that connection or either of those flights was full. There were other options through JNB which took a day longer.

One final connection point is Dubai, which actually had the most options for June 29:
BKK DXB  EK385 0125 0430,  EK419 0240 0545,  MH6142 0435 0830 all of which connect with DXB JNB EK763 1036 1317

BKK DXB  EK375 1018 1317 connecting with DXB JNB EK765 1442 2050

My overall conclusion is that commencing no earlier than midnight starting June June 29, except for the one June 29 connection through ADD, all routes led to Johannesburg and connection with SA170 on June 30. There were possible connections through each of the airport listed above.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2011, 10:42:11 AM by apskip »

Offline Prophet

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Re: AR19 Primary TRANSPORTATION OPTIONS
« Reply #145 on: October 27, 2011, 07:54:31 AM »
I'm scared to look in the bowels of this thread. :lol:
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Offline Neobie

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Re: AR19 Primary TRANSPORTATION OPTIONS
« Reply #146 on: October 27, 2011, 08:28:26 AM »
I think my bottom line for the episode is this?

As long as all teams are released between 11am and 7pm on 29 Jun and tickets don't run out, all teams - no matter what route they take to Johannesburg - will end up on the same plane from Johannesburg to Lilongwe the next morning.
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Offline Chateau d If

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Re: AR19 Primary TRANSPORTATION OPTIONS
« Reply #147 on: October 27, 2011, 10:53:25 AM »
And that's the way they like it (WRP that is)  :tup:
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Offline theschnauzers

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Re: AR19 Primary TRANSPORTATION OPTIONS
« Reply #148 on: October 27, 2011, 10:58:15 AM »
Production might have decided to provide the tickets; that's another possibility that hasn't been raised. Especially with the Thailand legs likely being the emergency replacements.
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Offline apskip

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Re: AR19 Primary TRANSPORTATION OPTIONS
« Reply #149 on: October 27, 2011, 04:42:40 PM »
theschnauzers,

You could very well be correct. However, there would not be a private jet for a 5000+ miles trip, so there must be combinations of flights that the teams take even if they do not control which ones they are on.


 

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