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Offline apskip

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AR17 Flight Information
« on: September 03, 2010, 04:55:30 PM »
I decided to do a comprehensive overview of the AR17. Thanks I believe to Mrs. Shrek and others, we already know a lot about the actual flights that AR17 teams took on the dates we think were correct. I have gone to a favorite airline database that shall not be named for actual flight information, but that now only gives single point-to-point flights, so any multiple flights have to be assembled correctly. The dates of flight will obviously affect actual departure and arrival times (as opposed to schedules which may stay about the same) as well as indicating which dates cannot be used due to flights not valid for those days of the week.

A key unknown is where World Race Productions placed the one or two extended pit stops for AR17. I have assumed one will be in Sweden because teams need time to recover from the long flights from Accra to Frankfurt to Stockholm to Kiruna which total 4700 miles. If there is a second one, I have no idea where it will be.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2010, 10:15:41 AM by apskip »


Offline apskip

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Re: AR17 Flight Information
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2010, 05:41:48 PM »
leg 1 dep. 5/26 BOS LHR
AA108 1940 0700+1
VS12   2002 0725+1


leg 2 dep. 5/28 LHR ACC
VS657 2254 0455+1


leg 3 5/30 local transport in Ghana


leg 4 dep. 5/31 ACC FRA
NOTE that a 6/1 departure does not work, so I have backed this up to 5/31
LH567 2203 0603+1
6/1 FRA ARN
SK2636 1216 1416
6/1 ARN KRN
HK3114 2020 2137

leg 5 KRN ARN
Note: I expect this to be on 6/3, not one day later
6/3 SK1307 1435

leg 6 6/3 local transportation around greater Stockholm area
followed by extended pit stop??


leg 7 ARN LED 6/5
SK732 1311 1632


leg 8 6/6 LED Moscow SVO or DME there are almost hourly flights, so pick one arriving well before the below ongoing flights
SU569 SVO DXB 2018 0103+1 or
EK134 DME DXB 1745 2244     or
6/7 EK132 0038 0528
6/7 EK866 DXB MCT 0333 0447 or for connection for line above EK862 DME DXB 0830 0930


leg 9 6/9 MCT BOM 9W539 0035 0435
6/9 BOM DAC 9W276 0930 1303


leg 10 6/11 DAC HKG  KA111 0215 0816


leg 11 6/13 HKG ICN almost hourly flights from 8am on, so take your pick



leg 12 ICN LAX most probable (earliest) departure is KE17 1524 1024 
 



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Offline Paron

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Re: AR17 Flight Information
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2010, 05:50:02 PM »
Really?  So many legs in Sweden.  I thought there were only two legs there.  And two in South Korea, for that matter.

Offline georgiapeach

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Re: AR17 Flight Information
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2010, 07:57:48 PM »
it isn't legs Paron...it is flights and transits.

Thanks apskip! Thanks to spoiler friends we doknow  some of the actual flights used, be sure to refer to the post 1 Timeline summary.

We have no actual evidence for a leg in the Stockholm area, (just transits). We do believe there is at least one leg in Kiruna Sweden (Artic Circle).
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Offline apskip

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Re: AR17 Flight Information
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2010, 09:25:30 AM »
Legs 4 and 5 are the only Swedish legs, Paron. I cannot support the possibility of two legs in South Korea because there are 12 legs with only one in South Korea.

KRN is airport code for Kiruna so leg 4 (and maybe also leg 5) is the above-Arctic Circle leg.


Offline apskip

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Re: AR17 Flight Information
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2010, 07:10:21 AM »
I have additional flight information for leg 2 Heathrow to Accra to provide non nonstop flight combinations that could result in earlier arrival if departure was much earlier in the day:

 LHR BRU SN2092    0820 1030
 BRU ACC SN259      1140 1620

LHR FRA  LH4743     0625 0855
LHR ACC LH 566       1025 1450

LHR AMS KL1002       0955 1225
AMS ACC  KL859        1405 1845
    
    
    

  

« Last Edit: October 01, 2010, 07:15:57 AM by apskip »

Offline apskip

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Re: AR17 Flight Information
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2010, 10:52:05 AM »
Leg 4 Actual Flight Information is Now Available

The flight from Accra to Frankfurt was indeed LH567 2203 0603+1
The flights 6/1 from Frankfurt are not direct to Kiruna. A change in Stockholm's Arlanda Airport is mandatory. Times for the two flights mentioned in the telecast are reasonable:

LH3000 FRA ARN 0747 0945 or
LH3002 FRA ARN 0955 1155

Only Nat/kat, Brook/Claire, Michael/Kevin and Gary/Mallory made LH3000 due to either limited actual seats or to WRP/CBS imposed restrictions to
spread out teams a little.

The final flights from Stockholm (ARN) to Kiruna (KRN) were:
first 4 teams could get either DK3761 1030 1155 or SK1042 1107 1231

The other 5 teams would be left with:
SK1044 1325 1440. That gave the first group of teams either a 2 .75 or 2.15 hour head start.



Offline apskip

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Re: AR17 Flight Information
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2010, 12:32:16 PM »
I  have looked at the question of whether Muscat, Oman is a logical connecting point for flights from St. Petersburg to Dhaka. It is NOT. Here's why:

1. the only single connection from LED to DAC is via Bangkok (BKK).
2. the least total time double connections from LED to DAC are via:
    Moscow (DME) and Dubai (DXB)
    Dubai (DXB) and Doha (DOH)
    Moscow (DME) and Bangkok (BKK)
    Moscow (SVO) and Dubai (DXB)
    Helsinki (HEL) and Delhi (DEL)
    Rostov (ROS) and Dubai (DXB)
    Moscow (SVO) and Delhi (DEL)
    Moscow (DME) and Dubai (DXB)
    Kiev (KBP) and Dubai (DXB)
3. all connections from LED to MCT are double except one through Doha and from Muscat to Dhaka there is one nonstop to Dhaka. That means this combination is possible:

FV145  1400 1530 LED DME
EK134  1655 0019+1 DME DXB
KU677  0130+1 0230+1 DXB MCT
BG022 0315+1 1130+1  MCT DAC

However, there is no point in going through Muscat. it would be simpler to just do this:
EK582 0145+1 0800+1 DXB DAC
Through Moscow, the best you could do is to connect onto that  same flight EK582

My conclusion is that it is illogical to use Muscat as just a connection point from St. Petersburg to Dhaka. If teams were spotted in the Muscat airport, it would be because there was a leg in Oman.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2010, 06:44:10 AM by apskip »

Offline Kaylynn

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Re: AR17 Flight Information
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2010, 07:09:00 PM »
I  have looked at the question of whether Muscat, Oman is a logical connecting point for flights from St. Petersburg to Dhaka. It is NOT. Here's why:

1. the only single connection from LED to DAC is via Bangkok (BKK).
2. the least total time double connections from LED to DAC are via:
    Moscow (DME) and Dubai (DXB)
    Dubai (DXB) and Doha (DOH)
    Moscow (DME) and Bangkok (BKK)
    Moscow (SVO) and Dubai (DXB)
    Helsinki (HEL) and Delhi (DEL)
    Rostov (ROS) and Dubai (DXB)
    Moscow (SVO) and Delhi (DEL)
    Moscow (DME) and Dubai (DXB)
    Kiev (KBP) and Dubai (DXB)
3. all connections from LED to MCT are double except one through Doha and from Muscat to Dhaka there is one nonstop to Dhaka. That means this combination is possible:

FV145  1400 1530 LED DME
EK134  1655 1219 DME DXB
KU677  0130+1 0230+1 DXB MCT
BG022 0315+1 1130+1  MCT DAC

However, there is no point in going through Muscat. it would be simpler to just do this:
EK582 0145+1 0800+1 DXB DAC
Through Moscow, the best you could do is to connect onto that  same flight EK582

My conclusion is that it is illogical to use Muscat as just a connection point from St. Petersburg to Dhaka. If teams were spotted in the Muscat airport, it would be because there was a leg in Oman.

Nice Work!
I think then there may be only 1 Bangladesh leg.
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Offline Caelestor

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Re: AR17 Flight Information
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2010, 10:41:59 PM »
Is it certain that teams left Oman the night on the 8th? It could very well be the 9th.

I agree that there has to be a leg in Oman.
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Offline apskip

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Re: AR17 Flight Information
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2010, 06:12:51 PM »
I want to go back to leg 4 and the connection in Frankfurt and how that apparently allowed some teams to get ahead at least 2 hours and others to fall behind. The official connect times (quite absurd according to my experience for international to international) for FRA are:

Domestic to Domestic - 45 minutes
Domestic to International - 45 minutes
International to Domestic - 45 minutes
International to International - 45 minutes

That means that all travel agents, particularly Lufthansa ticketing agents in the Accra airport, would have been allowed to book the connection between LH567 (scheduled arrival 630am June 1) and SK3000 (scheduled departure 0735) of 65 minutes. that is 20 minutes more than the minimum. Now, I personally would never book a flight through Frankfurt assuming a 65 minute connect time due to my personal experience there of slow connection, but if it is a legal connection then the Amazing Race teams certainly should have tried to, and been allowed to.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2010, 07:24:30 PM by apskip »

Offline georgiapeach

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Re: AR17 Flight Information
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2010, 06:14:55 PM »
I would be afraid to try that as well in Frankfurt!! Thanks!
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Offline maf

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Re: AR17 Flight Information
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2010, 11:10:34 PM »
I always assumed that at least Nat & Kat (and who else booked via the net) would have kept their original tickets (with the slow connection in Frankfurt) and then just bought extra tickets for the fast connection. That way they would have been safe.

I would also assume that Gary & Mallory and Kevin & Michael did not have double tickets since they seemed to have a Lufthansa agent change their tickets.

But I do not know if the race rules allows that kind of behavior. But I remember team Guido stating that in Season 11 they were allowed to hold tickets on multiple connections.

Offline redskevin88

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Re: AR17 Flight Information
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2010, 11:58:22 PM »
I always assumed that at least Nat & Kat (and who else booked via the net) would have kept their original tickets (with the slow connection in Frankfurt) and then just bought extra tickets for the fast connection. That way they would have been safe.

I would also assume that Gary & Mallory and Kevin & Michael did not have double tickets since they seemed to have a Lufthansa agent change their tickets.

But I do not know if the race rules allows that kind of behavior. But I remember team Guido stating that in Season 11 they were allowed to hold tickets on multiple connections.

Here is the exact quote from Reality TV World

Quote
Somewhere around The Amazing Race 4 or 5, they changed the rules where you could buy tickets -- keep buying fully-refundable tickets -- and you could buy as many tickets as you wanted going from one place to another.  So as a result, say when we were in Johannasburg, you're just buying and buying and buying and buying tickets trying to get to Dar Es Salaam... we spent 28 hours in the Johannasburg airport before we finally got out.  Believe it or not, I had more than $50,000 worth of airplane tickets in my backpack.  We had maxed out two people's Visa cards just buying tickets trying to get out of there.

Offline apskip

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Re: AR17 Flight Information
« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2010, 11:38:38 PM »
I had in post #1 above in this thread the following:

leg 5 KRN ARN
Note: I expect this to be on 6/3, not one day later
6/3 SK1307 1435

leg 6 6/3 local transportation around greater Stockholm area
followed by extended pit stop??

leg 7 ARN LED 6/5
SK732 1311 1632

leg 8 6/6 LED Moscow SVO or DME there are almost hourly flights, so pick one arriving well before the below ongoing flights
SU569 SVO DXB 2018 0103+1 or
EK134 DME DXB 1745 2244     or
6/7 EK132 0038 0528
6/7 EK866 DXB MCT 0333 0447 or for connection for line above EK862 DME DXB 0830 0930

Based on what we now know, there are several problems with that. Teams start from Narvik and are not likely to go back through Narvik. The are likely to go through Oslo and then get a connecting flight through Stockholm's Arlanda airport to St. Petersburg. That gives us roughly the following:

leg 5 6/3  Harstad-Narvik airport (EVE) to Oslo OSL), choice of
0641  0824  SK4079
0649  0828   DY233
1059  1235   SK1103
1106  1240   DY235
1505  1638   DY227
1704  1837   DY119
1754 1928    SK4095
1853 2028    DY237

OSL ARN  6/3  potential same-day connecting flights are:
0911 1009   SK484
1102 1154   SK864
Note: these below will not connect and there are others later which won't either
1350 1435   DY808
1407 1504   SK874
1512 1602   SK496
1602 1654   SK882
1657 1745   DY816
1730 1821   SK890    
1824 1915   SK1484
1830 1915   DY3779

ARN LED 6/3
SK732 1310 1635

most of leg 5 6/3 and 6/4 will be around St. Petersburg and either leg 5 or 6 should have an extended pit stop of perhaps 36 hours. All teams should make the the flight connections as long as they are on one of the first two flights. from Harstad-Narvik airport to Oslo.

leg 6 around St. Petersburg on 6/5 or 6/6

leg 7 6/7 St. Petersburg to Muscat:
LED SVO   Aeroflot or Rossiya hourly         connecting to SU519 SVO DXB 2018 0103+1      connecting to  EK866 DXB MCT 0253+1 0348+1  or
LED DME  S7 Airlines or Rossiya hourly   connecting to EK134 DME DXB 1745 2244           connecting to EK866 DXB MCT 0253+1 0348+1   or
LED DME  S7 Airlines or Rossiya hourly   connecting to  EK132 DME DXB 0038+1 0528+1 connecting to 6/8 EK862 DXB MCT 0909+1 1007+1



« Last Edit: October 30, 2010, 11:58:36 PM by apskip »

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Offline Chateau d If

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Re: AR17 Flight Information
« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2010, 12:04:30 PM »

Apskip, there is a Twitvid that shows teams on a  train in sleeper cars.  So I 'm guessing they leave Narvik by rail.

Here is a table of trains out of Narvik, going to Stockholm.  There is only one per day.  It leaves at 2:50 pm and it takes 18 hours and 25 minutes.  It arrives in Stockholm at 9:15 am.

We have that teams were spoiled to have been on a flight that left ARN at 10:14 am on June 5th.   I'm guessing that they were unable to make it to ARN and catch a flight in 59 minutes so my bet is that they ride the train that leaves on June 3rd and spend almost a full day hanging around Stockholm :)
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Offline Chateau d If

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Re: AR17 Flight Information
« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2010, 12:15:43 PM »

Apskip, on the Muscat to Dhaka flight, I have a better option than you have given in post one.

They should try to get Swiss flight LX 243 leaving MCT at 11:35 pm on June 8th and arriving at 12:45 am in Dubai on June 9th.
Then they connect to Emirates flight EK 582 leaving DBX at 2:00 am and arriving at 8:40 am at DAC on June 9th.

There is no better way.   :snicker:
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Re: AR17 Flight Information
« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2010, 12:18:22 PM »
Chateau.....

Doesn't that train also stop at the airport, after Stockholm Central?
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Offline maf

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Re: AR17 Flight Information
« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2010, 12:22:04 PM »
Here is a table of trains out of Narvik, going to Stockholm.  There is only one per day.  It leaves at 2:50 pm and it takes 18 hours and 25 minutes.  It arrives in Stockholm at 9:15 am.

Actually there is a second option. A train which leaves at 09.20. You have to change trains in Boden and Uppsala but would arrive at Arlanda at 05:57. This looks feasible.

@DrRox, some trains stop at Arlanda, which is north och Stockholm. But these trains to not. Hence the train switch in Uppsala.

Offline Chateau d If

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Re: AR17 Flight Information
« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2010, 12:39:31 PM »
Thanks Rox!  Yes it does have a way to the airport.  Here it is.  (you have to get off before Stockholm central in Uppsula ...)

I still can't see them booking in less than one hour.  Maybe the flight was arranged in advance.

Maf, I found your train from Narvik to Boden but I can't see any earlier trains from Boden to Stockholm.   :duno:
« Last Edit: October 31, 2010, 12:51:36 PM by Chateau d If »
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Re: AR17 Flight Information
« Reply #20 on: October 31, 2010, 01:09:01 PM »
Well I would assume that they could/would book before boarding the train with internet connection.....or Production has seats blocked....but that does give them about 1:15 min to make flight.

For some reason, I thought that Arlanda was south of Stockholm, not north........duh?

I just wonder if that flight was 14 minutes late taking off because they waited for such a large party...about 30 people at least
« Last Edit: October 31, 2010, 01:12:58 PM by DrRox »
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Re: AR17 Flight Information
« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2010, 01:43:14 PM »
Maf, I found your train from Narvik to Boden but I can't see any earlier trains from Boden to Stockholm.   :duno:

Well, I must admit that I am looking at a Thursday in July next year (there are no historical timetables as far as I know at sj.se). And then there is a night train from Boden (#91) leaving at 17:12 with arrival in Uppsala at 05:28.

Offline Chateau d If

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Re: AR17 Flight Information
« Reply #22 on: October 31, 2010, 02:37:35 PM »
It looks like there is a complication in the train schedules that make a difference of a few minutes when a passenger get arrive at Arlanda.

If teams left Narvik on Thursday June 3rd then they can get to Arlanda at 9:09 am after changing trains in Gavle.  

If teams left Narvik on Friday the 4th then they can change trains in Uppsula and get to Arlanda at 9:01 am (different train from Thursday).

If it was the June 3rd start then they had to wait a day for their flight.  That's hard to swallow since there could have been something else to take on June 4th to St. Petersburg.  So I would suspect that we have an extra day in Narvik before the leg starts.  And somehow the teams manage to make their flights on Friday with only a hour at the airport.  Rox's idea of booking on the train seems to help in that regard!
« Last Edit: October 31, 2010, 02:41:40 PM by Chateau d If »
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Re: AR17 Flight Information
« Reply #23 on: October 31, 2010, 02:43:36 PM »
It looks like there is a complication in the train schedules that make a difference of a few minutes when a passenger get arrive at Arlanda.

Yes, it is complicated. And I must admit that when I look at historical times via the DB site I get the same results as you guys do. It is only when I look at next years schedule and guess that the same applied last year I find good connections. That guess may very well not be valid. :groan:

But I assume we might find out later tonight. Or we might not, sometimes they are very light on travel details in the show.

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Re: AR17 Flight Information
« Reply #24 on: October 31, 2010, 02:48:54 PM »
Probably a stupid question, maf. Does your alternative route have sleeper cars like in the video?
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