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Offline DeafRacer

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Re: Season 16 = Dumbest Cast Ever...?
« Reply #125 on: May 15, 2010, 05:58:26 PM »
I disagree (read you are wrong, sorry), I have no problem with any aspect of the race that mirrors normal every day experiences people would have with traveling around the world.  That includes language barriers, vehicles breakdowns, and bad taxi's. 

Its' the artificial interference that I, how should I put it, HATE with a passion.  TAR has designed has always been above that until they created the Yield.  Any negatives of the race weren't creations of the producers but just the everyday interactions of people.

By the same idea, I never have been a huge fan of the Fast Forward as it allows teams that don't have the ability to succeed over teams that are performing strong on their own. 

Heck even with all the travel problems off season 11, I would rather have that problem (which does happen in real life) then a single Yield or U-Turn).

Just to remind y'all that there are over 2,000 people works on the Amazing Race around the world so to stay on the time/schedule is pretty crucial. They would like to avoid the major screwups in order to stay on the right track.

I'm just glad that I didn't have to deal with the nightmare like Eric & Danielle suffered with a major flight problem on All Stars! Sure, it would make a good show but it wouldn't be good for the production!

For Fast Forwards and U-Turns, it's a nice twist to the Race for sure. It does add the drama to it! If it wasn't for U-Turn then Jaime & Cara or my mom & I probably wouldn't make it to the Final Three with Amanda & Kris stealing our spot! So, I'm grateful for the U-Turn! But, I hate it when teams makes a personal decision about who to U-Turn, not making a strategic move. That bugs me a lot!


Offline mswood

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Re: Season 16 = Dumbest Cast Ever...?
« Reply #126 on: May 16, 2010, 12:25:48 PM »
I have got to disagree with you Luke.

Well I am certain that on your front (as one racing) the U-Turn & Fast Forward increase the drama of your experience.  I can also understand that as one racing you want the best possible chance of making it to the finals.  But as a viewer that drama never really translated to us at home.  Take your season clearly for your team that wasn't even a blip on the radar for moments of drama.

For myself at least, it was the up lifting moments of winning first for the first time (Hell I nearly cried), to your friendship with Jaime & Cara, to your Mom's efforts through the race (great to see) to her collapse from the heat and being tired (Awful to see), to the confrontations with Kisha & Jen.  Those were the moments that translated to me a viewer of drama, and none of them were the type that was manufactured by the production. 

In fact during the 12 seasons where the production as used the Yield or the U-Turn the only time I have gotten any entertainment out of it was watching Colin and Christie's meltdown.  And I still think that shouldn't have been used.

I don't blame the racers for using the tools that the production gives you, I just think it tarnishes the show.  I mean we had 4 seasons with plenty of drama in them that had nothing to do with Production trying to fuel the fire of seeing teams react.

Its a race, and for myself I want the best performing team to win (and I don't care who that team is).  Not the team that managed to knock out who they thought was their competition. 


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Offline georgiapeach

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Re: Season 16 = Dumbest Cast Ever...?
« Reply #127 on: May 16, 2010, 12:36:00 PM »
I totally 100% agree. I hate the Uturns.
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Offline David

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Re: Season 16 = Dumbest Cast Ever...?
« Reply #128 on: May 16, 2010, 12:50:38 PM »
I think it is OK. I mean, you're doing great, and you're in the lead, so you get a "prize" tht is to use some power against someone you don't like/don't think that should be in the race...

It's not THAT unfair.
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Offline Caelestor

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Re: Season 16 = Dumbest Cast Ever...?
« Reply #129 on: May 16, 2010, 01:03:27 PM »
I think it is OK. I mean, you're doing great, and you're in the lead, so you get a "prize" tht is to use some power against someone you don't like/don't think that should be in the race...

It's not THAT unfair.

Have you seen Phil this season and his provocative questions this season about people using the U-turn? Horrible practice.
And when the U-turn automatically eliminates a team (look at the statistics), there's something broken about it.
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Offline #HEEL

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Re: Season 16 = Dumbest Cast Ever...?
« Reply #130 on: May 16, 2010, 01:04:15 PM »
I think it is OK. I mean, you're doing great, and you're in the lead, so you get a "prize" tht is to use some power against someone you don't like/don't think that should be in the race...

It's not THAT unfair.

Have you seen Phil this season and his provocative questions this season about people using the U-turn? Horrible practice.
And when the U-turn automatically eliminates a team (look at the statistics), there's something broken about it.

Don't wanna get U-Turned? Race better. Simple as that in my book.

Offline georgiapeach

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Re: Season 16 = Dumbest Cast Ever...?
« Reply #131 on: May 16, 2010, 01:20:28 PM »
But see...that's the point. If you ARE a good racer, that puts a target on you. I don't think anyone should be put at risk for racing well, by another team. ESPECIALLY when there has been no recovery from the Uturn recently.
"Our fans are pretty good. They don't give away too much. Sometimes people love dropping spoilers, but our fans are good. They tend to do it in such a way that doesn't ruin it for fans who don't want to know."--Phil Keoghan

Offline David

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Re: Season 16 = Dumbest Cast Ever...?
« Reply #132 on: May 16, 2010, 01:31:52 PM »
I have to say that, if Phil doesn't like the U-Turn, he may say something to Production... :lol:

I feel that if the U-Turn is there, you should know how the game works, and make a strategy so as not to be U-Turned.
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Offline David

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Re: Season 16 = Dumbest Cast Ever...?
« Reply #133 on: May 16, 2010, 01:32:46 PM »
And, I have to say that there has been a recent recovery from the U-Turn: Kisha & Jen. They were in 3rd, and not last after the U-Turn. They lost time, but they could have been in the F3.
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Offline Dånooky

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Re: Season 16 = Dumbest Cast Ever...?
« Reply #134 on: May 16, 2010, 02:37:40 PM »
I agree with Coutzy, but peach also has a point. I think a good strategy is to race well enough to avoid the U-Turn but not that good enough to put a target on your back, and to not piss other teams off.

The main discussion on the cast "being dumb" is that they should have U-Turned the Cowboys. In the end, the team that won was the one that was almost completely under the radar. I think we'll start seeing a trend of teams holding back during the season and pulling a surprise/disappointment on the Final Leg.

Anyhow, my three cents:
*If you piss people off, redeem yourself racing well to avoid being U-Turned
*If you're a good team, keep your lead to avoid being U-Turned
*If you're not a power team, don't mess with anybody

If you consider the first and third point, you add a social dimension to TAR where inter-team relations also play a part in staying in the game, which I think is a good thing about the Yield/U-Turn. Take a look at Joe/Bill in All-Stars, they literally said they'd play nice now that the Yield was in play. And even though Eric & Danielle were Yielded twice, they won. Yielding/U-Turning for strategic reasons may backfire later in the game while doing it for personal reasons adds no more fire to existing drama and you may get rid of a nuisance. And keeping this train of thought, there might be a psychological advantage for a personal U-Turn.
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Offline mswood

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Re: Season 16 = Dumbest Cast Ever...?
« Reply #135 on: May 16, 2010, 02:42:34 PM »
I can't rationally understand why anyone would be supporting of this.  Seriously.

The idea if you don't like the U-Turn just race better is rubbish.  No team, not even the best teams the race has ever had manage to be first at every single route marker of every single leg.  And this year to add salt on the would the have a U-Turn on a leg that didn't have a point of equalization.  And more salt on teh wound, the team that got first in that earlier leg finished first but didn't actually race best (thanks to random chance the teams that managed to get the earliest flight got an over hour delay).  That allowed Michael & Louie to finish first without that they wouldn't have (nor did they even complete the tasks fastest that leg).  So clearly just race faster wasn't the factor that allowed another team to use the U-Turn.

I mean why do they have rules about not hindering teams, when they do this?  Whats the real point?  Why can't the bribe people to take them the wrong direction.  If you've saved the money and can get it down, why not?  The way is because it turns the race into something it wasn't created as.  A mean spirited race.

I mean if you have kids and are at a track game, do you want the kid who gets the first lap done first able to point out another kid an say oh you get to race an extra lap?  I mean seriously.

As over the years the race as improved several things.  The design of their final leg (thank you about time), the rules about not being able to buy objects off of people, not being able to hire cabs to direct you.  All have been great moves to make the show and the race itself better.

The creation of the Yield, The U-Turn, the begging / and or taking possession away from the racers is utter garbage.

There is a reason the industry thinks TAR is a better show then most Reality shows, and its just not where it goes or who it casts.  Part of that is that it doesn't sink itself to as base a level as many a show.  But those elements do make it worse.

Offline mswood

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Re: Season 16 = Dumbest Cast Ever...?
« Reply #136 on: May 16, 2010, 02:51:04 PM »
But see...that's the point. If you ARE a good racer, that puts a target on you. I don't think anyone should be put at risk for racing well, by another team. ESPECIALLY when there has been no recovery from the Uturn recently.

I don't even care if every team managed to recover from the U-Turn.  The idea of having a race, and then putting an aspect to punish racers who are actually doing well is ludicrous.

Offline mswood

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Re: Season 16 = Dumbest Cast Ever...?
« Reply #137 on: May 16, 2010, 02:57:46 PM »
I have to say that, if Phil doesn't like the U-Turn, he may say something to Production... :lol:

I feel that if the U-Turn is there, you should know how the game works, and make a strategy so as not to be U-Turned.
Obviously I don't blame any of the racers for using it (I might question why they picked who they did).

And of course as a huge fan of Eric & Jeremy I fully support the idea of going from point A to Point be as fast as you can manage it at all times.  I mean seriously look at them when they finish 2nd on any leg they did that in?  They hated it.  You see them leaving Moscow by themselves and know they have hours of lead over other teams and they are still running for the train and running to the next marker.

I love that attitude.

But ever team is going to have events that aren't their's no control that will allow others to pass them by.  You can't just say race faster or plan better.  Their isn't a way for any teams to fully control what happens to them.


Offline MamaT

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Re: Season 16 = Dumbest Cast Ever...?
« Reply #138 on: May 16, 2010, 05:03:12 PM »
I'm not a fan of the U-Turn and wish it wasnt a part of the game, but as long as it, I have no problem with a team using it. 
As to the topic of this thread:  I dont think this cast of racers was particularly stupid (ok, there are a few exceptions to that), I just think that many of them didnt know much about the show which led them to do stupid things.  I mean there are quite a few racers in this cast who admit to having never seen the show prior to being cast.  And that bugs me more that the U-turn ever will.

Offline georgiapeach

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Re: Season 16 = Dumbest Cast Ever...?
« Reply #139 on: May 16, 2010, 06:03:09 PM »
But to their credit, those recruited teams did do their homework, and extensively reviewed previous TAR's.
"Our fans are pretty good. They don't give away too much. Sometimes people love dropping spoilers, but our fans are good. They tend to do it in such a way that doesn't ruin it for fans who don't want to know."--Phil Keoghan

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Offline DeafRacer

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Re: Season 16 = Dumbest Cast Ever...?
« Reply #140 on: May 16, 2010, 06:13:03 PM »
But to their credit, those recruited teams did do their homework, and extensively reviewed previous TAR's.

Well, look at Amanda and Kris. They were a recruited team and they were the fourth team eliminated :-p

Offline redskevin88

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Re: Season 16 = Dumbest Cast Ever...?
« Reply #141 on: May 16, 2010, 07:22:41 PM »
But to their credit, those recruited teams did do their homework, and extensively reviewed previous TAR's.

Well, look at Amanda and Kris. They were a recruited team and they were the fourth team eliminated :-p

That's only because you u-turned them... it's hard to say how they would have fared if they had beaten Mark & Michael....

Offline #HEEL

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Re: Season 16 = Dumbest Cast Ever...?
« Reply #142 on: May 17, 2010, 10:03:44 AM »
I can't rationally understand why anyone would be supporting of this.  Seriously.

The idea if you don't like the U-Turn just race better is rubbish.  No team, not even the best teams the race has ever had manage to be first at every single route marker of every single leg.  And this year to add salt on the would the have a U-Turn on a leg that didn't have a point of equalization.  And more salt on teh wound, the team that got first in that earlier leg finished first but didn't actually race best (thanks to random chance the teams that managed to get the earliest flight got an over hour delay).  That allowed Michael & Louie to finish first without that they wouldn't have (nor did they even complete the tasks fastest that leg).  So clearly just race faster wasn't the factor that allowed another team to use the U-Turn.

I mean why do they have rules about not hindering teams, when they do this?  Whats the real point?  Why can't the bribe people to take them the wrong direction.  If you've saved the money and can get it down, why not?  The way is because it turns the race into something it wasn't created as.  A mean spirited race.

I mean if you have kids and are at a track game, do you want the kid who gets the first lap done first able to point out another kid an say oh you get to race an extra lap?  I mean seriously.

As over the years the race as improved several things.  The design of their final leg (thank you about time), the rules about not being able to buy objects off of people, not being able to hire cabs to direct you.  All have been great moves to make the show and the race itself better.

The creation of the Yield, The U-Turn, the begging / and or taking possession away from the racers is utter garbage.

There is a reason the industry thinks TAR is a better show then most Reality shows, and its just not where it goes or who it casts.  Part of that is that it doesn't sink itself to as base a level as many a show.  But those elements do make it worse.

Why should a team not get some sort of advantage for being first? Many a time people complain about equalization because it removes all the lead that the teams at the front have earned. Yet here everybody is complaining because the teams in the lead FINALLY get a reward for it. That is the reason I like the U-Turn. If you have raced well, then you get the chance to press the advantage you created for yourself, and if you've raced poorly, you may have to work extra hard to catch up. If the teams racing were so morally opposed to the U-Turn, they simply wouldn't use it. But it (And variants of it) are here to stay. Get used to it.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2010, 10:07:57 AM by Coutzy »

Offline Dånooky

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Re: Season 16 = Dumbest Cast Ever...?
« Reply #143 on: May 17, 2010, 04:23:28 PM »
I mean if you have kids and are at a track game, do you want the kid who gets the first lap done first able to point out another kid an say oh you get to race an extra lap?  I mean seriously.

First of all, racers are not kids, but let's say that's irrelevant. Let's give some context to your example.

Let's say there are lots of kids on the track and one of them is all "yeah, I can beat you any time, you are absolutely no competition to me..." and so on, constantly bothering the other contestants and yourself. If you had passed said team due to a stroke of luck and had the opportunity to get even with them within the rules and probably kick them out wouldn't you do it?


Take into account that the existence of said ability to screw with other teams shouldn't influence your personal decision since there's always the option to take the high road and not use it.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2010, 04:34:52 PM by Dånooky »
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Offline apskip

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Re: Season 16 = Dumbest Cast Ever...?
« Reply #144 on: May 20, 2010, 07:47:59 AM »
Luke, "Season 16 = Dumbest Cast Ever...?" might not even be a question anymore after reading this answer from Michael:
Quote
Michael: Again, we didn’t have a U-Turn after we got rid of Joe & Heidi. We let everyone think we had a U-Turn – and we wanted the others to pick [Carol & Brandy].

http://www.realitynewsonline.com/cgi-bin/ae.pl?mode=4&article=article11304.art&page=1

I remember you saying that you could still use the U-Turn after the Blind U-Turn because you still had your picture.  Either they changed the rules or this is more bumbling by the detectives.
Caelestor stated below this "I like it that you can only U-turn once, blind or not. " slayton was right on this and Caelestor was wrong. Also, Deaf Racer was obviously right in a follow-up; he got the rules read to him for AR14 so he knows personally what all careful viewers of AR14 know. What I remember from Phil's explanation of the introduction of the Blind U-Turn was that using it did NOT affect a team's ability to use a regular U-Turn.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2010, 08:01:23 AM by apskip »

Offline georgiapeach

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Re: Season 16 = Dumbest Cast Ever...?
« Reply #145 on: May 20, 2010, 09:16:46 AM »
That may have changed for this season apskip, we will need to reconfirm that with Michael/Louie.
"Our fans are pretty good. They don't give away too much. Sometimes people love dropping spoilers, but our fans are good. They tend to do it in such a way that doesn't ruin it for fans who don't want to know."--Phil Keoghan

Offline apskip

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Re: Season 16 = Dumbest Cast Ever...?
« Reply #146 on: May 20, 2010, 04:21:06 PM »
That may have changed for this season apskip, we will need to reconfirm that with Michael/Louie.

Peach, to quote an authoritative source quoting another authoritative source:

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Re: TAR16 - EP 12: "Huger than Huge" FINALE!! (summary in posts 1thru 3)
« Reply #285 on: May 15, 2010, 09:02:32 PM »
   Reply with quoteQuote
Caite has said in an interview that they could do 6-6 or 7-5. 

Indeed, Caite did and you apparently forgot that in stating 5 days later that it needs to be confirmed with Louie/Michael. Why?

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Re: Season 16 = Dumbest Cast Ever...?
« Reply #147 on: May 20, 2010, 04:34:40 PM »
I was referring to the Blind U-turn apskip, not the RB.
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Offline mswood

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Re: Season 16 = Dumbest Cast Ever...?
« Reply #148 on: May 20, 2010, 09:13:40 PM »
I can't rationally understand why anyone would be supporting of this.  Seriously.

The idea if you don't like the U-Turn just race better is rubbish.  No team, not even the best teams the race has ever had manage to be first at every single route marker of every single leg.  And this year to add salt on the would the have a U-Turn on a leg that didn't have a point of equalization.  And more salt on teh wound, the team that got first in that earlier leg finished first but didn't actually race best (thanks to random chance the teams that managed to get the earliest flight got an over hour delay).  That allowed Michael & Louie to finish first without that they wouldn't have (nor did they even complete the tasks fastest that leg).  So clearly just race faster wasn't the factor that allowed another team to use the U-Turn.

I mean why do they have rules about not hindering teams, when they do this?  Whats the real point?  Why can't the bribe people to take them the wrong direction.  If you've saved the money and can get it down, why not?  The way is because it turns the race into something it wasn't created as.  A mean spirited race.

I mean if you have kids and are at a track game, do you want the kid who gets the first lap done first able to point out another kid an say oh you get to race an extra lap?  I mean seriously.

As over the years the race as improved several things.  The design of their final leg (thank you about time), the rules about not being able to buy objects off of people, not being able to hire cabs to direct you.  All have been great moves to make the show and the race itself better.

The creation of the Yield, The U-Turn, the begging / and or taking possession away from the racers is utter garbage.

There is a reason the industry thinks TAR is a better show then most Reality shows, and its just not where it goes or who it casts.  Part of that is that it doesn't sink itself to as base a level as many a show.  But those elements do make it worse.

Why should a team not get some sort of advantage for being first? Many a time people complain about equalization because it removes all the lead that the teams at the front have earned. Yet here everybody is complaining because the teams in the lead FINALLY get a reward for it. That is the reason I like the U-Turn. If you have raced well, then you get the chance to press the advantage you created for yourself, and if you've raced poorly, you may have to work extra hard to catch up. If the teams racing were so morally opposed to the U-Turn, they simply wouldn't use it. But it (And variants of it) are here to stay. Get used to it.
But that isn't the same at all, and for example we had fewer points of equalization then any season int eh history of the show.

As a race, and what that is about traveling through various parts of the world there is always going to be some forms of equalization.    There is not in the is world unlimited travel options that leave every second. 

And you stated teams should get some reward for getting to places first, and in fact teams that arrive at airports, bus terminals, ect do get advantages that others don't.  More rest time (and rest is a huge, huge factor for the race), research time (and this can also be huge if you have time to research an area or a place you have to go to it helps you), and the ability to find faster routes of transportation.  Those three things are huge, huge helpers for teams.  They get more time to eat, more time to beg (if they are short of money) just many factors for being first (at a point where you can't make forward progress).

Yes I know the production is keen on keeping this little artificially created conflict generators, but knowing that doesn't mean I have to like it.  Nor do I understand why anyone would.

For example there is the fast forward, thats clearly a reward, and one that isn't directed towards another team.  One that s hardly used anymore because it provides little artificial drama and there is a larger cost involved.   Now I don't know of many who dislike the Fast Forward.  But a lot of fans of the show don't like the Yield or the U-Turn.  And what bitter animosity has ever come up from the Fast Forward?

I don't have a problem with teams not liking each other, but I don't like to see Producers build tasks into the game that are specifically designed to make those conflicts larger.  TAR used to be above that, it isn't any longer, and in my mind thats a damn shame.


 

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