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Offline georgiapeach

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TAR16 - EP 9: "Dumb did us in" (Singapore)
« on: March 26, 2010, 08:39:39 PM »
Credit to Hooky for finding the title! :ty3:

Lots of goodirs from the spoiler threads to bring over for this one...   :hearts:


From woden's Timeline thread:

EP09: Penang, Malaysia to Singapore
EVIDENCE: Phil likely spotted in Penang International Airport McDonald’s (departure area) on December 15 (apx 5:45pm); Frat team spotted on flight from Kuala Lumpur to Penang (MH1138)

Air Date: APR 11

Film Date: DEC 15-16

Route:
ROUTE INFO: Go to Sentosa (Mega-Zip)/Singapore Flyer
EVIDENCE: “Young F/F team” possibly spotted with helicopter on top of Singapore Flyer (Flyer closed to public until 12:30pm); “two big guys in blue and a blonde M/brunette F couple” possibly spotted at Sentosa (close to Subway at cable car arrival plaza); Mike/Louis photographed at Island Life shop in Sentosa; teams spotted at Mega-Zip at Sentosa

ROUTE INFO: Find ice cream vendor at corner of Waterloo and Bencoolen Link
DETOUR?: Sell ice cream
EVIDENCE: Photo of vendor with clue in hand/flags on cart being filmed, Carol & Brandy (wearing gray) spotted selling ice cream (around 11am), Steve & Allie possibly spotted looking for ice cream stand

ROUTE INFO: Find Marina Barrage
EVIDENCE: Camera crew/team spotted between 10am and 1pm on 12/16 at marina; again at about 1:30pm (guys in blue, later a couple in red)

OTHER POSSIBLE LOCATIONS: Bugis MRT
EVIDENCE: Cameraman possibly spotted near here

Safe From Elimination at End of Episode:
Mike & Louis: Eliminated in 4th place in Shanghai
Dan & Jordan (Spotted in SFO)
Brent & Caite (Spotted in SFO)
Jet & Cord (Spotted in SFO)

Possibly Eliminated:
Carol & Brandy (eliminated at or before this leg)
Steve & Allie (eliminated at or before this leg)
« Last Edit: March 27, 2010, 11:25:03 AM by georgiapeach »
"Our fans are pretty good. They don't give away too much. Sometimes people love dropping spoilers, but our fans are good. They tend to do it in such a way that doesn't ruin it for fans who don't want to know."--Phil Keoghan


Offline georgiapeach

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Re: TAR16 - EP 9: "Dumb did us in" (Singapore)
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2010, 08:39:57 PM »
Summary thanks to puddin!


Tweets/ Blogs/ Etc 12/14

*Hellataz :
i just saw the amazing race cluebox at bukit batok, between bukit batok and jurong east, so might be wondering if the new season of amazing race 16 might be stopping in singapore for race
Source:
ltvols:
*stephanietang Spotted AmaZing race crew at s'pore!! Bugis near temple.
ltvols
*Stephanie Tang - the girl that captured the photo of the ice cream truck - tweeted that the pic was taken about 12:00 noon but that she didn't see any participants.  Also confirmed it was TAR USA
heyhay28:
The girl who saw the Set up of the Ice Cream Cart in Singapore yesterday just tweeted this back to me
*@heyhay28 hey there its at SINGAPORE. at Bugis. Near a very popular temple. didnt get to see any participants yet. USA Version.
Source
Sailing:
*The Amazing Race 16 in Singapore
Filming of the new season of The Amazing Race had been spotted in SG! at the flyer and in Bugis - read it in the papers yesterday and my mum actually saw one team doing the challenge in Bugis that day...

^^^
peach: Had a lovely followup note:
*i'm afraid she didn't take any pictures, cause she had no idea it's the AMAZING RACE till she saw the picture in the newspaper report! i so wanted to be there too!
well, according to her, there were 2 females, should be wearing grey though she wasn't really sure now. They were selling ice cream and it was about 11+ am. =)
peach:
Photo matching completed!! It is our short haired ladies in camo!!
*anyway, yup my mum said it's the first team -  the team in grey/black. =)


Tweets/Blogs/Etc 12/16


ob-la-di-ob-la-da
one more Facebook post, from someone in Singapore 2 hours ago (5:30am, Singapore time):
*Thank you guys.... check out the AMAZING RACE ASIA...... Saw the filming at Singapore flyer & Sentosa. Due the the show, they close the flyer from public until 12.30pm, we were way too early...end up took the flyer in the evening. A great trip..
Sailing:
*And a tweet to go along with it:
BethRuh: Sighted: People walking outside on TOP of the Singapore Flyer. Helicopter filming...I'll give you one guess....
Hellataz
I had seen this post on FB earlier but i think i goes along with the race you guys are talking about:
*Mint Lee Thank you guys.... check out the AMAZING RACE ASIA...... Saw the filming at Singapore flyer & Sentosa. Due the the show, they close the flyer from public until 12.30pm, we were way too early...end up took the flyer in the evening. A great trip..
Sailing:
And a tweet to go along with it:
BethRuh: Sighted: People walking outside on TOP of the Singapore Flyer. Helicopter filming...I'll give you one guess....
peach:
Okay, incoming:
From one of the Sentosa posters:
*I did not realise that they were filming the amazing race until the 2nd sighting, therfore no pictures were taken.
I was at the singapore flyer at about 11am, 16 dec 2009, when i saw the 1st group, male/female team(young couple, long hair girl dressed in blue).
As the flyer was closed for shooting until 12.30pm, my family and i proceeded to sentosa's underwater world, where we spotted the 2nd group, male/male group (middle aged man, dressed in blue too.) wondering around Rasa Sentosa Hotel car park at abt 1pm, same day.

Natalie Blog:
Found a girl that saw amazing race filming at the megazip/Sentosa.
*Natalie: okay i think.. there's this two guys with cowboy hats? n a couple team?(indians?) didnt hang around there very long... sorry!
Blog:

*While I would consider riding the Singapore Flyer, the world's tallest Ferris Wheel, to be one of the must-dos in Singapore, the night we went it was amazingly uncrowded -- in fact, we came very close to getting a tube of our own. My friends and I got there around 6:30, an arrival perfectly timed for sunset, which happens quickly this close to the equator. We navigated the maze of shops and ramps to the entrance and we hopped onto the slow-moving wheel without it even stopping. Soon we were out of the housing and getting great views of Singapore and beyond. Het, we could even see Malaysia and Indonesia -- a tri-nation view! We got great looks at the skyline and harbor as the sun dropped behind the tall buildings. We got a great perspective on the ongoing construction of the world's largest casino complex and on Singapore's floating soccer field. Additionally, we could see an unending line of ships at anchor, waiting for their turn to enter busy Singapore Harbor. All in all, the ride took just a hair over 30 minutes and regaled us the entire time, all for about $20.
If we had wanted to splurge, for $199 we could have gotten a tube that came with a full-service dinner on nice linens and fine china, with champagne. In fact, n the tube behind us, we could see two young girls were being filmed doing just that. Since we envisioned that the dinner would be an occassion for romance and dinner, and the girls were rather shoddily-dressed, we were trying to come up with scenarios for what was going on. Was it a reality TV show? It turns out we were close -- a Hong Kong Travel show was filming its Singapore adventure

ams06
*Found this blurb on a blog. Not sure if it helps. Maybe it will help put the timeline together.
Lunch at Subway! And guess what? We saw teams of Amazing race running around Sentosa. That was so cool! Watch out for the next season... Sentosa might be the pit stop for a leg of the race!
Source

^^^
woden:
A follow up on his blog:
*Well, the first team I saw were two big guys wearing blue and the second team were a couple. The male is blonde-haired and the female is a brunette.
ams06:
*We had an awesome picnic at marina barrage today! Even though we didn’t get to rest our bums on the grass pasture at level 2 cos there is some event (we think it is amazing race asia, cos we saw some angmoh filming crew and two backpackers running here and there) and we had to wake up at 7-ish am; IT WAS WORTH IT! ((:
Source
^^^
* follow up
Amazing Race TAR 16
by Yirene
I need to exclaim first, I was so shocked when I saw my blog readership yesterday and then I realised it was because I merely mentioned about amazing race in one of my sentences. So to all the amazing race fans out there…
Ok guys, I hoped I got this right. I just received a FB message from this nice lady call Peach and she said that you guys want to know more about the race in Singapore. Honestly, I am not very sure whether the people I saw were from Amazing Race but just in case they were, let me fill you in with some details.
WHO: 2 males in blue shirts and blue backpacks
WHERE: Marina Barrage
WHEN: 16 December, about 130pm or so.
My friend, Fiona also mentioned that she saw another couple in red running in some time after.
That’s about all that I know! Yeap, and I am terribly sorry cos’ I was more interested in the filming crew than the contestants themselves! I don’t know why! HAHA. But I’ve attached some pictures, so take a look if you are interested! (:




Alright, this article was taken from "THE NEW PAPER" (Singapore's "alternative" newspaper) and the issue is dated Friday, 18th December 2009. Just a quick heads up before I dive in into the article proper, there really isn't much new information inside the article and it seemed like the person who wrote it took most of it directly off RFF, in fact.  :groan: But nonetheless, I'm posting it up here hoping it would be of some help to the investigation here.





so since i can't really get a proper clear picture, i'll just type it out and highlight (in bold) the more-interesting/important points within

Is Amazing Race back in S'pore?  
Film crew spotted at S'pore Flyer and Bugis

IS THE Amazing Race making a pitstop in Singapore again?
 
A US film crew was spotted at the Singapore Flyer and Bugis on Wednesday. And it looked like they were laying the groundwork and preparing for the impending arrival of contestants as the signature red and yellow striped envelope which participants need to find was seen by someone who posted it on the Net.
But contestants were nowhere to be seen.
Now into its 16th instalment, the US reality TV game show first came to our shores in 2002 during its third season.
According to Ms Nicole Lee, 30, who works at Singapore Flyer's Japanese restaurant Hibiki, the tourist attraction was strangely quiet on Wednesday morning. Curious, Ms Lee asked the receptionist, who confirmed that The Amazing Race had indeed been filming there in the morning.
She told The New Paper: "When I arrived for work at about 11:30am, I saw a helicopter hovering above us, which is unusual."
Singapore Flyer's marketing communications manager June Leong confirmed that it had been hired for filming a commercial TV production", but did not specify which one.

Later that afternoon, the crew moved on to Bugis where they were seen filming with an ice-cream street vendor.
Miss Stephanie Tang was on the way back to her office at Parkview Square after lunch at Albert Centre when she spotted them.
Being a fan of the series, Miss Tang immediately recognised the signature red and yellow stripped envelope. So she snapped a photo and posted it on Twitter.
The 23-year-old marketing communications executive told The New Paper: "They were at The Bencoolen at about 1pm.
"The film crew asked an ice-cream vendor to hold on to a red and yellow envelope. I didn't spot any contestants around."
Back in 2002, we saw The Amazing Race teams wandering through the National Orchid Garden, swimming across a manatee enclosure at the Singapore Zoo and getting wet in Suntec City's Fountain of Wealth. They also navigated maze-like HDB corridors in Choa Chu Kang, after which actor Gurmit Singh - playing Phua Chu Kang - handed them clues.
Finally, actress and former Miss Singapore Universe Jaime Teo greeted them at the Mount Faber pitstop.
As for this season, it seems filming of the race started at the Los Angeles International Airport. While details have not been released, Entertainment Weekly reported that rumoured contestants Jordan Lloyd and her boyfriend Jeff Schroeder were spotted at the airport in competition attire late last month.
Lloyd is US reality TV show Big Brother 11's winner and Schroeder was a fellow participant.
The film crew and contestants have also been spotted in South America's Puerto Varas and San Carlos de Bariloche, according to Spanish news websites.


Plaidmoon:
*Good work, Dragoondaniel! I saw a reference to a story being in TNP which I was guessing was The New Paper but I couldn't find it on their web site.
I did find this thread at  sgforums.com .
It has a few tidbits and bears watching.
I was at T3 yesterday night at this breadshop nxt to where the bus "stop" is, then there was this AETOS security guard, and two ang moh pple surfing the free internet on the com at that bread shop(forgot the name)...
so weird, initially i tot A Race, but as i dun watch the show i dunnoe the contestons~

*and
at b.batok. blk 334 under the void deck there got mama shop there will be the pit stop.
There's also some speculation about meeting "PCK" or "LKY and familee" or "the prata man". I assume these are local celebrities and are pure speculation.


*There are reports of the production crew and contestants being sighted around Bukit Batok/Jurong, Bugis, Marina Barrage, Singapore Flyer and Sentosa a couple of days back.
  Photo by Michael Tan


================================================================



==================================================================

Joab's Amazing Race around Singapore: with site photos!! :jumpy:

http://forum.realityfanforum.com/index.php/topic,21425.msg502956.html#msg502956

==============================================================

« Last Edit: March 27, 2010, 11:29:53 AM by georgiapeach »
"Our fans are pretty good. They don't give away too much. Sometimes people love dropping spoilers, but our fans are good. They tend to do it in such a way that doesn't ruin it for fans who don't want to know."--Phil Keoghan

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Offline #HEEL

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Re: TAR16 - EP 9: "Dumb did us in" (Singapore)
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2010, 08:50:47 PM »
Hold on. I thought JeJo already got eliminated!

Offline ZBC Company

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Re: TAR16 - EP 9: "Dumb did us in" (Singapore)
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2010, 09:11:13 PM »
Cate say probaly

Offline apskip

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Re: TAR16 - EP 9: "Dumb did us in" (Singapore)
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2010, 09:15:12 PM »
Hold on. I thought JeJo already got eliminated!

They were spotted enjoying life in Puerto Vallarta, so what does that tell you about their residency at Elimination Station?


Offline Hooky

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Re: TAR16 - EP 9: "Dumb did us in" (Singapore)
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2010, 10:42:35 PM »
Hold on. I thought JeJo already got eliminated!

They were spotted enjoying life in Puerto Vallarta, so what does that tell you about their residency at Elimination Station?


Pretty sure he was just joking, apskip.

Offline Zack.

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Re: TAR16 - EP 9: "Dumb did us in" (Singapore)
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2010, 10:44:09 PM »
This could be pretty much anyone  :lol:

Offline kwando1313

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Re: TAR16 - EP 9: "Dumb did us in" (Singapore)
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2010, 11:01:44 PM »
I have a sinking suspicion this is said by Carol and Brandy, referring to Brent and Caite.

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Re: TAR16 - EP 9: "Dumb did us in" (Singapore)
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2010, 11:36:04 PM »
ok, let me scream for once

SINGAPORE..... :wohoo:

hmm, i think Dan & Jordan say this, maybe a small mistake??
Singaporean here - PM me, if you need me to translate, Chinese, Malay, English, German or Japanese

Offline redskevin88

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Re: TAR16 - EP 9: "Dumb did us in" (Singapore)
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2010, 02:37:43 AM »
ok, let me scream for once

SINGAPORE..... :wohoo:

hmm, i think Dan & Jordan say this, maybe a small mistake??

Something tells me that a BIG mistake dooms a team that ends up in elimination


Offline Jobby

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Re: TAR16 - EP 9: "Dumb did us in" (Singapore)
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2010, 08:10:18 AM »
It would be great to see how dumbness can cause a team's elimination..... IN SINGAPORE!!!

Offline Jobby

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Re: TAR16 - EP 9: "Dumb did us in" (Singapore)
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2010, 08:11:41 AM »
Hold on. I thought JeJo already got eliminated!

They were spotted enjoying life in Puerto Vallarta, so what does that tell you about their residency at Elimination Station?


Pretty sure he was just joking, apskip.

I'm pretty sure anyone who read Coutzy's post will know that he meant it to be in sarcasm, meaning JeJo should have been the one who said it (for apparent reasons) but they were eliminated.

 :lol: Wonder why apskip didn't get it.

Offline AmazingRace

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Re: TAR16 - EP 9: "Dumb did us in" (Singapore)
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2010, 08:41:06 AM »


Louie & Michael outside IslandLife, Singapore.
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Offline georgiapeach

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Re: TAR16 - EP 9: "Dumb did us in" (Singapore)
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2010, 11:31:21 AM »
Ongoing summary updates in the first two posts ^^^


Feel free to bring stuff over from the spec and location threads, I know we have great stuff in there!
"Our fans are pretty good. They don't give away too much. Sometimes people love dropping spoilers, but our fans are good. They tend to do it in such a way that doesn't ruin it for fans who don't want to know."--Phil Keoghan

Offline slayton

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Re: TAR16 - EP 9: "Dumb did us in" (Singapore)
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2010, 06:22:15 PM »
It would be great to see how dumbness can cause a team's elimination..... IN SINGAPORE!!!

I'm not surprised something like that would happen with this cast.

I agree with Rob & Trevor when they said that Mark & Bill and Toni & Dallas would love to have been on this cast.

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Re: TAR16 - EP 9: "Dumb did us in" (Singapore)
« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2010, 05:14:13 AM »
I'm okay with them selling ice cream in Singapore.. but that's just a.... small culture in Singapore..

But shall not complain.. very happy they're in SINGAPORE!!!! :lol:

I can't wait for the promos to come out and help with the spoilers.. that's about as much i can help.. lol

Offline Evan_Weinstein

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Re: TAR16 - EP 9: "Dumb did us in" (Singapore)
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2010, 07:27:49 AM »
me too, count me in, i wanna help
I'm okay with them selling ice cream in Singapore.. but that's just a.... small culture in Singapore..

But shall not complain.. very happy they're in SINGAPORE!!!! :lol:

I can't wait for the promos to come out and help with the spoilers.. that's about as much i can help.. lol
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Re: TAR16 - EP 9: "Dumb did us in" (Singapore)
« Reply #17 on: March 30, 2010, 01:41:57 PM »


Neobie,

I must apologize. After years of relative congruency between your transportation work and mine, this is the 3rd instance of huge major differences in the past 24 hours.  The timetable I have cited has the heading Bangkok ►  Penang ►  Kuala Lumpur ► Singapore and I used the Penang (actually Butterworth since State Railways of Thailand trains do not actually cross to  the bridge into Penang center. I have discovered that my interpretation of the schedules in that was not correct.

The website which was the source for my timetables is http://www.seat61.com/Thailand.htm#Singapore

I concur that your 0700 to 2130 14.5 hour trip from Butterworth to Singapore is valid for Malaysian Railways.

« Last Edit: Today at 12:55:17 PM by apskip »
« Last Edit: March 30, 2010, 05:29:39 PM by apskip »

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Re: TAR16 - EP 9: "Dumb did us in" (Singapore)
« Reply #18 on: March 30, 2010, 01:57:54 PM »
Apskip, I'm looking at the time table you reference (http://www.seat61.com/Thailand.htm#Singapore) and I still don't see any way to get from Butterworth to Singapore in less than 13h45m.


PS, here's the info from your link:

Daily Train 9 leaves Butterworth at 23:30 this train arrives KL at 06:40, then train 5 leaves KL at 08:25 (1 hr 45 min layover) and arrives Singapore at 15:00.  Total time = 15 hr 30 min.

Daily Train 1 leaves Butterworth at 07:45 and arrives Singapore 21:30.  Total time = 13 hr 45 min (no layover in KL).

Saturdays and Sundays, Train 3 leaves Butterworth 10:00 and arrives KL 17:30 then Train 11 (daily) leaves KL at 22:30 (a 5 hr layover!) and arrives Singapore 08:20.  Total time = 22 hr 20 min.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2010, 02:04:53 PM by chill_sd »

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Re: TAR16 - EP 9: "Dumb did us in" (Singapore)
« Reply #19 on: March 30, 2010, 02:32:51 PM »
After years of relative congruency between your transportation work and mine, this is the 3rd instance of huge major differences in the past 24 hours? What is going on? The timetable I have cited has the heading Bangkok ►  Penang ►  Kuala Lumpur ► Singapore and I used the Penang (actually Butterworth since State Railways of thailand trains do not actually cross to  the bridge into Penang center. My number are correct per that timetable. If you don't like an official State Railways of Thailand timetable, feel free to disregard it.

I do not know who is right, but I am using a documented source for my timetables (I don't make these up out of thin air):

http://www.seat61.com/Thailand.htm#Singapore

Please look it up yourself. It shows that State Railways of Thailand has the timetables I displayed. I concur that your 0700 to 2130 14.5 hour trip from Butterworth to Singapore is valid for Malaysian Railways.

My Asia rail travel experience of 3 weeks in India, 11 days in China and 10 days in Taiwan has taught me that there are average trains which go under 40 mph and there are fast trains which do 80 miles per hour. I suspect that your Malaysian Railways timetables are valid, but who sensitive to time constraints would want to go on that  train? I sure wouldn't for an Amazing Race although I would consider it for a major price differential.

Apskip, you are reading the right timetable (with minor variations from the official Malaysian Railways schedule), but you are looking at the wrong row. The times that you are quoting (trains leaving at 8.25am, 2.00pm and 10.30pm) are for trains leaving from Kuala Lumpur to Singapore, which is why the times you get are drastically shorter. There is no faster train than the direct.

The official Malaysian Railways timetable is here, if you would like to confirm the timings.

I recognize your 5 weeks of travel experience in China, Taiwan and India, but please understand that I live in Singapore and have made the trip to and from Penang three times in the past two years, by train, bus and plane.

Perhaps why we're disagreeing is because one of us is starting to pay attention to what the other one is saying! :waves:
Found out that Neobie in Chinese means "f*king awesome"! No, really. Look it up!

Offline apskip

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Re: TAR16 - EP 9: "Dumb did us in" (Singapore)
« Reply #20 on: March 30, 2010, 05:20:54 PM »
It would be great to see how dumbness can cause a team's elimination..... IN SINGAPORE!!!

I don't think there's anything magical about Singapore there. Think of all the past Amazing Race seasons and the dumb things that got people eliminated. How many of them were in Singapore? The answer is zero, since the elimination of John Vito and Jill on Mt. Faber does not count because it was poor navigation and not dumbness. However, Joab, fear not because I can think of two dumb things in Singapore in ARA1 and ARA2:

1. Allowing Rovilson to do the final flag ROADBLOCK when Marc could have done it much quicker (ARA2- finale). This got them a last-place-in the final-3 episode finish, 3rd overall in ARA2 (thanks methylc for the correction).
2. The Amazing Race - Universe blunder of blunders by Michael McKay in having the car-washing task as the only reason for a visit to Singapore (ARA1- ep.7). This did not get him eliminated, but only because he's the producer of Amazing Race Asia and cannot be eliminated.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2010, 08:21:14 PM by apskip »

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Re: TAR16 - EP 9: "Dumb did us in" (Singapore)
« Reply #21 on: March 30, 2010, 05:28:03 PM »
It would be great to see how dumbness can cause a team's elimination..... IN SINGAPORE!!!

I don't think there's anything magical about Singapore there. Think of all the past Amazing Race seasons and the dumb things that got people eliminated. How many of them were in Singapore? The answer is zero, since the elimination of John Vito and Jill on Mt. Faber does not count because it was poor navigation and not dumbness. However, Joab, fear not because I can think of two dumb things in Singapore in ARA2:

1. Allowing Roberson to do the final flag ROADBLOCK when Marc could have done it much quicker. This got them eliminated.
2. The Amazing Race - Universe blunder of blunders by Michael McKay in having the car-washing task as the only reason for a visit to Singapore. This did not get him eliminated, but only because he's the producer of Amazing Race Asia and cannot be eliminated.
I think Joab's excited about this team's elimination because it will happen in Singapore, his home land, a country that has been severely left out of recent TAR routes.
The story so far:
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This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move

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Re: TAR16 - EP 9: "Dumb did us in" (Singapore)
« Reply #22 on: March 30, 2010, 06:45:01 PM »
sounds like a Steve quote to me

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Re: TAR16 - EP 9: "Dumb did us in" (Singapore)
« Reply #23 on: March 30, 2010, 07:49:47 PM »
DON'T TAKE THE BUS DOWN. Reason: The Causeway. Causeway jams are horrible. Joab might know what I'm talking about.

Solution: the Second Link. Buses, especially those taking the Lebuhraya from Penang, have not been using the Causeway since... 1998, I think.

Joab might know what I'm talking about. :lol: :hugs:
« Last Edit: March 30, 2010, 07:54:46 PM by Neobie »
Found out that Neobie in Chinese means "f*king awesome"! No, really. Look it up!

Offline woden

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Re: TAR16 - EP 9: "Dumb did us in" (Singapore)
« Reply #24 on: March 31, 2010, 09:17:43 AM »
People will have to help me with the timeline on this one -- I think I have it summed up (Timelines, Page 1) but there was so much info I might have missed/misstated something.


 

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