Author Topic: Ranking the Teams -- A basis for comparing all teams TAR 1-24 Updating for 24!  (Read 41993 times)

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Offline Mister RC

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Hey now! I am no "disability"      My deafness wasn't a big problem for me on the Race. Hence, my mom and I finished in Top Four in every leg for entire race! Isn't that pretty impressive?

It most certainly is!  Well, at least I think so, but checking-in 4th-place or better is an accomplishment that has only happened 4 times in AR history (including you and Margie).  In fact, none of the 15 revealed winners have done that.  Some of them maybe had a bump or two on the road, regardless, none of them had a consecutive Top 4 finish throughout the entire race.

With Tammy/Victor, if we were to disregard their near-Philimination, their (other) placement(s) would have been a virtual guarantee of a spot in the Final 3 (they placed 3rd or better in their first two legs and the rest starting with the 4th leg).  Their average probably would have been a lot higher as well!

In comparing Tammy/Victor to the top teams, had their consistent Top 3 spots throughout most of the race factored into Leg 3: They would have been second on the list & only one of two teams with an overall average placement of less than 2.  That's if they checked in 2nd or 3rd; if they had won Leg 3 in their season, they would have surpassed Eric/Jeremy in terms of average overall placement.

Anyway, 12 out of 12 Top 4 finishes is impressive in such a difficult race full of a lot of unexpected segments and game-changing moments!
« Last Edit: February 09, 2010, 06:07:30 PM by revengefullycreative »
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Offline DeafRacer

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Hey now! I am no "disability"      My deafness wasn't a big problem for me on the Race. Hence, my mom and I finished in Top Four in every leg for entire race! Isn't that pretty impressive?

It most certainly is!  Well, at least I think so, but checking-in 4th-place or better is an accomplishment that has only happened 4 times in AR history (including you and Margie).  In fact, none of the 15 revealed winners have done that.  Some of them maybe had a bump or two on the road, regardless, none of them had a consecutive Top 4 finish throughout the entire race.

With Tammy/Victor, if we were to disregard their near-Philimination, their (other) placement(s) would have been a virtual guarantee of a spot in the Final 3 (they placed 3rd or better in their first two legs and the rest starting with the 4th leg).  Their average probably would have been a lot higher as well!

Who are other three teams that have done that?  That's the shame that my mom and I didn't win otherwise, we would held a new record!

Offline Mister RC

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Others that have done that include Joe/Bill, Kris/Jon, and Eric/Jeremy.  And yeah, it's a shame that you didn't win. For a team to finish strong in the early stages, then mid-race, and then throughout the final segments of the race (where one would be very exhausted) for the win would be a feat that would be rather difficult to match.
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Offline georgiapeach

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Let's leave THIS thread for theschnauzers updates and discussion of that technique please.

All that info you are asking for is widely available, if you want to start another thread and ask for help, feel free jtarhead11. I personally find adding labels to teams rather distasteful though, but I see where you are going.

Back to topic please. :)

 :groan:  Georgiapeach, didn't mean to offend, and I'm certainly not trying to "label" anymore than the race already does. I was merely trying to explore some of the inequities in casting.  For example, did you know that, including season 16, only 7 openly gay women have been chosen for the race, while the number of openly gay men is at my count at least 21.  Seems a bit unfair don't you think??  And how many young, Caucasian Barbie and Ken type teams have been on??  Seriously, too many to count, but then America never gets tired of Barbie and Ken.   :lol:

But you're right, I should have started another thread to discuss this so as not to distract from theschnauzers AWESOME statistics skills!   

No worries, I am all in favor of diversity in casting, so if a list will help that, then feel free. 

Just not in theschnauzers pretty thread. :lol:   And :welcome:

And :ot: too...but Luke rocks!!  :yess:
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Offline theschnauzers

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Just a quick note.
In past seasons, I would post the current teams' numbers to date periodically once the show got three or four episodes into the season. I'll probably will do that this season. The methodology does provide some insight about how well teams have performed once we reach the middle section of the Race, and often points to likely final three teams at that point.  It's not infallible, due to the luck factor, but it does offer some insights.
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Offline theschnauzers

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With all of the bouncing around in the leaderboard for the top 7 teams (and the same-placement consistency of the bottom three teams) this week, I thought I would go ahead and start the weekly mid-season tracking a week early:

Quote
Jet-Cord      2.0000   4/2
Joseph-Heidi       3.5000   7/2
Jeff-Jordan      3.5000   7/2
Monique-Shawne    3.5000   7/2
Carol-Brandy      4.5000   9/2
Brent-Caite       5.5000   11/2
Steve-Allison      5.5000   11/2
Jordan-Daniel       8.0000   16/2
Louie-Michael      9.0000   18/2

Jody-Shannon       10.0000   20/2
Adrian-Dana       11.0000   11/1

It's almost like having a genuine bell curve; one team floats to the top; most teams bunch more or less in the middle, and the three bottom teams stayed in place.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2010, 11:30:09 PM by theschnauzers »
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Offline mswood

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And to put those numbers into perspective for leg #2

Jet & Cord would place in the same group that includes (Joe & Bill, Rob & Brennan, Shola & Doyin, Tara & Will, Rob & Amber (7), Godlewski's and Weaver's, Peter & Sarah and Oswald & Danny (AS).    Only one team in this group won their season.  With only 7 teams averaging a better start, they are Rob & Amber (AS), Kris & Jon, BJ & Tyler, Eric & Jeremy, Tyler & James, Ken & Tina and Tammy & Victor.

Joe & Heidi, Jordan & Jeff, Monique & Shawne would place with  12 other teams (Frank & Margarita, Flo & Zach. Ken & Gerard, Brandon & Nicole, Charla & Mirna (5), Linda & Karen, Jonathan & Victoria, Debbie & Bianca, Nick & Starr, Meghan & Cheyne, Lance & Keri, and Zev & Justin.  28 teams at this stage have a better record.  3 teams at this stage won their season.

Carol & Brandy have the same record at this point as Heather & Eve, Kelly & Jon, Millie & Chuck, Bob & Joyce, Marshall & Lance, Gaghan & Schroader families, Joseph & Monica, Wanda & Desiree, Dustin & Kandice (10), Shana & Jennifer, TK & Rachel.  Only one team with this average won their season.

Brent & Caite and Steve & Allie have the record as Mary & Peach, Reichen & Chip, Alison & Donny, Lori & Bolo, Linz's, Rob & Kimberly, Toni & Dallas, Mark & Michael, Brad & Victoria, Sam & Dan.  Two teams at this stage won their season.

Dan & Jordan share the same record as David & Margaretta, Kim & Leslie, Chip & Kim, Don & Mary Jean, Kellie & Jamie, Charla & Mirna (AS), Marianne & Julia, Ronald & Christina, Brian & Ericka only won team has won at this point.

Louie & Michael have the same record at this point as Peggy & Claire, Kami & Karli, Meredith & Maria, Lyn & Karlynn, David & Mary, Kate & Pat, Maria & Tiffany, and Mika & Canaan.  No one in this group has ever won the race, and only one has made the final three.


Offline theschnauzers

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mswood, personally, I'm waiting another couple of legs or so before comparisons to prior seasons. If you were to look at many of those teams after the second leg, their performance after two legs wouldn't have suggested a top 3 finish, much less a win.

But as I mentioned in my previous post, I haven't seen three bottom teams earn the exact same placements in each of the first two legs before. That's just peculiar.
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Offline Zack.

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mswood, personally, I'm waiting another couple of legs or so before comparisons to prior seasons. If you were to look at many of those teams after the second leg, their performance after two legs wouldn't have suggested a top 3 finish, much less a win.

But as I mentioned in my previous post, I haven't seen three bottom teams earn the exact same placements in each of the first two legs before. That's just peculiar.

TARAS? Kevin/Drew got 10th/10th, David/Mary got 9th/9th/9th, and Charla/Mirna got 8th/8th/8th.

Offline mswood

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True



Offline Zack.

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If only Charla/Mirna had gotten 8th / 8th / 8th / 8th  :hearts:

Offline almightyblue

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It's a great list. I calculate these myself every season, too (though you put much more thought into it than I do with mine), and they tend to be mostly accurate, but I find there are three flaws with using Finishing Averages to compare teams.  First off, it basically assumes that all casts are created equal, when in fact some races (like 10 and 14) are much stronger than others (like 4 and 15).  Dustin & Kandice had to go up against arguably the two toughest fields in Race history, and excelled against both of them, while Meghan & Cheyne got the benefit of going up against one of the weakest casts ever, and got inflated stats as a result.  A prime example of this is Eric, who, with his original partner, got the lowest Finishing Average of all time on Season 9, only to be, at best, the fifth strongest team on All-Stars (and that's only if you place them over Uchenna & Joyce, which I'm hesitant to do myself).  Yes, he had a new partner who was a weaker racer, but that can't account for everything, not when they were terrible at booking flights.

The second and third flaws kind of go hand in hand, and can be demonstrated with the same example.  Second is that these averages tend to favor teams that start out strong, then fade over the course of the race (like Ken & Tina) over teams that start out slow and get stronger as they go along (Jaime & Cara are a key example), as struggling in early legs tends to produce 8th and 9th place finishes, while struggling later on gives 4th and 5th.  Third, using only Finishing Averages to compare teams is like using only batting averages to compare hitters, it only gives a partial view of what a team did.

These two can both be demonstrated by again using Eric & Danielle on All-Stars, who did win their race, but were probably the worst team to ever win in comparison with the other teams on their season.  They were not in the same league as Dustin & Kandice or Rob & Amber, or even Danny & Oswald.  At best they were in the same league as Charla & Mirna and Uchenna & Joyce, and that's only by disregarding that they made three major airport mistakes that probably should have gotten them eliminated.  However, for now I'm only going to compare them to Charla & Mirna:

11-01 Eric/Danielle    47/13   3.6153
11-03 Charla/Mirna     54/13   4.1538

That right there would make you believe that Eric & Danielle were the better team, when in fact Charla & Mirna beat them in every other major statistical category.  Charla & Mirna won more legs (2-1, even though that one was the final leg), had more Top 2 (4-3) and Top 3 (7-6, this includes the final leg) finishes, and Eric & Danielle had more Bottom 2 finishes (at 5-4, though that doesn't include Charla & Mirna's 3rd place in the finale, as there was no chance for elimination).  The most telling stat, though, is that head to head Charla & Mirna won 7 of the 13 legs.  However, four of those legs were at the very beginning of the season, when the cousins were struggling.  From leg five, on, Charla & Mirna beat Eric & Danielle for seven straight legs (actually, Dustin & Kandice, Charla & Mirna, and Eric & Danielle finished in consecutive order for four straight legs, 8-11).  Even watching the race, without any of these stats, it was easy to see (at least in my mind) that Charla & Mirna were a much better team than Eric & Danielle.

Still, that is one of the few examples where the Finishing Averages doesn't work (at least when comparing teams to others on their own race).  Overall, I only see two other discrepancies, where I would easily rank one team over another despite the Finishing Averages saying otherwise.  That would be Dustin & Kandice being under Tyler & James on Season 10, and Jaime & Cara being under Mel & Mike on Season 14. 

Offline almightyblue

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Others that have done that include Joe/Bill, Kris/Jon, and Eric/Jeremy.  And yeah, it's a shame that you didn't win. For a team to finish strong in the early stages, then mid-race, and then throughout the final segments of the race (where one would be very exhausted) for the win would be a feat that would be rather difficult to match.

Since we're talking about exclusive clubs, there have been only five teams to go through an entire race without ever being in danger of elimination.  More specifically, without ever finishing in the Bottom 2 on any given leg outside of the Final 3.  Those 5 teams are:

Rob & Brennan*
Frank & Margarita*
Dustin & Kandice (Season 11)
Margie & Luke
Meghan & Cheyne

Rob & Brennan and Frank & Margarita were slightly less impressive, as it was impossible for them to finish below 2nd on the last four legs of the season, the point at which it's easiest fall into the Bottom 2, and that is why the asterisk is present.

The most impressive is probably Dustin & Kandice, who did in on All-Stars, against a group of teams who had raced before.

Offline theschnauzers

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Please read my introductory post. I fully recognize the limits of objective only measurements, but on the other hand, trying to play the adjustment game is a minefield because of the subjective element such a process would entail.

As to your Eric and Danielle example, let me tell a story. From season three through season 14, I played a player prediction game at TWoP. That documented who I picked to finish Final 3 if not win, which is why I mention it. When season 11 came around, I predicted pre-season that Eric and Danielle would win All-Stars. I based it on the fact that Eric was half of the best performing team by objective measure ever (and Eric-Jeremy still are) and my suspicion that like Zach in season three, Eric would have to "carry" Danielle through the season. (Which pretty much was the case.) You don't need twp great Racers to have a potential final three team, you need to have one, though, and the other team member has to listen and follow. (Which pretty much is what Danielle did, and they won.) And I don't share your high opinion of Charla and Mirna. I think Eric was clearly the better Racer than either of them, and I think he proved it on All-Stars.

(To finish the story, I decided after season 14 that I wouldn't play the prediction games any longer because of the spoiler issue with such games. Other players were using spoilers to play, and win, and I decided that wasn't fair to me. So had that site's game continued, I would not have participated last season and this season. And my choices tor last season and this season are in posts at RFF, so there is a record.)

Now if anyone wants to try to come up with some objective mechanism to measure strong cast or whatnot, they're perfectly free to try. I just don't think that it's possible, and while the approach I use isn't infallible, I truly don't believe there's going to be a better way of dealing with the season-to-season variations as to the structure of the Race course or the casts.

As to this:
Quote
The most impressive is probably Dustin & Kandice, who did in on All-Stars, against a group of teams who had raced before.

Dustin and Kandice had also previously raced before All-Stars, and maybe had an advantage since they most recently Raced (compared to the other teams) before All-Stars.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2010, 02:15:23 PM by theschnauzers »
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Offline almightyblue

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Please read my introductory post. I fully recognize the limits of objective only measurements, but on the other hand, trying to play the adjustment games is a minefield because of the subjective element such a process would entail.

As to your Eric and Danielle example, let me tell a story. From season three through season 14, I played a player prediction game at TWoP. That documented who I picked to finish Final 3 if not win, which is why I mention it. When season 11 came around, I predicted that Eric and Danielle would win All-Stars. I based it on the fact that Eric was half of the best performing team by objective measure ever (and Eric-Jeremy still are) and my suspicion that like Zach in season three, Eric would have to "carry" Danielle through the season. (Which pretty much was the case.) You don't need twp great Racers to have a potential final three teams, you need to have one, though, and the other teams member has to listen and follow. (Which pretty much is what Danielle did, and they won.) And I don't share your high opinion of Charla and Mirna. I think Eric was clearly the better Racer than either of them, and I think he proved it on All-Stars.

(To finish the story, I decided after season 14 that I wouldn't play the prediction games because of the spoiler issue with such games. Other players were using spoilers to play, and win, and I decided that wasn't fair to me. So had that site's game continued, I would not have paticipated last season and this season. And my choices tor last season and this season are in posts at RFF, so there is a record.)

Now if anyone wants to try to come up with some objective mechanism to measure strong cast or whatnot, they're perfectly free to try. I just don't think that it's possible, and while the approach I use isn't infallible, I truly don't believe there's going to be a better way of dealing with the season-to-season variations as to the structure of the Race course or the casts.

As to this:
Quote
The most impressive is probably Dustin & Kandice, who did in on All-Stars, against a group of teams who had raced before.

Dustin and Kandice had also previously raced before All-Stars, and maybe had an advatnage since they most recently Raced before All-Stars.

I did read the introductory post, and it doesn't change the fact that I was pointing out the obvious flaws that you yourself admitted to exist in your objective list.

And not only were Charla & Mirna a better team than Eric & Danielle, but I would take them over Eric & Jeremy as well.  Charla & Mirna raced against Colin & Christie, Rob & Amber, and Dustin & Kandice, three teams who left no doubt that they were three of the strongest teams to ever run the race, and did well against them, while Eric ran against a cream puff field, against only one other competent team, then struggled against stronger teams on All-Stars.  Charla & Mirna are also responsible for innovating several strategies that many teams use now, with both flight bookings and utilizing the locals, while the only brilliant idea Eric & Jeremy had was to cancel the other teams' cabs, and that would have gotten them penalized if it had worked.

Yeah, I thought highly of Eric prior to All-Stars, and had him finishing second pre-race, but to have picked him to win at mid-race, or even in the Top 4, would have been illogical, as it went against everything he had shown as a racer so far during that season.

The problem with your objective list is that it favors teams who cushioned their stats against weak fields, teams like Eric & Jeremy, BJ & Tyler, Meghan & Cheyne, and Nick & Starr, while punishing teams like Dustin & Kandice and Ronald & Christina, who not only had competition, but both started out slow, and didn't really get going until leg 5 or so.  Despite what your stats say, basic observation says that Eric & Jeremy and Meghan & Cheyne are not unstoppable powerhouses that would dominate any group of teams they were pitted against.  That should be saved for the likes of, I don't know, Colin & Christie, Rob & Amber, and Dustin & Kandice.

Speaking of Dustin & Kandice, the only real competition they have on that list is Margie & Luke, as Rob & Brennan and Frank & Margarita have the aforementioned asterisk, and Meghan & Cheyne were pitted against the most inept group of racers this side of Season 4, a group that had three teams essentially quit the race when they came up against such challenging tasks as going down a waterslide and spelling the word "Franz".

Offline georgiapeach

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Offline theschnauzers

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I'm not going to belabor my point, but I'm segregating this particular objective methodology from my and anyone else's subjective opinions about who really were the "better" teams. That's a debate that is going to repeat itself every season, and as opinion, there's never going to be unanimous agreement on that labeling. All I have said is that this ranking system is a tool, and I've tried my best to have something that handles the variations in the Race from season to season in a reasonably consistent manner.  I didn't come to that conclusion overnight (after all, I started in season three, and I wasn't satisfied that this approach offers some insights with all the variations created by Bert, Elise and Company until the last couple of seasons.

I also have a thread going about assessing teams in terms of identifiable Racer skills (which I label as "Racer mechanics") and I fully concede that that is a far more subjective approach, but it does offer insights about which teams ought to be able to finish higher over the course of a Race, and how to assess the "flaws" teams may have as Racers. But even there, different people are going to have different views about what those skills are and what skills different teams have.

That said, I wasn't as impressed with Charla and Mirna as Racers in season five or eleven, but that's just my opinion; and I don't think the fact that you view them differently can be used as an argument against the objective approach used in this ranking methodology.
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Offline mswood

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I have to seriously disagree about Charla & Mirna.  They raced incredibly poorly (especially in season 11).  Sure they made the final three but many teams that underperform make the final three.

When you break down the episodes and figure out the time to complete the days events Charla & Mirna were consistently one of the slowest teams.

They have two saving graces, that was the ability (on occasion to get help from locals, other times not at all as they can be very abrasive) and the ability to get themselves either good flights or bumped over others on those flights.

They are poor navigators, poor drivers, and didn't perform great on many tasks.

Episode 1:  The only thing Charla & Mirna did superior to Eric & Danielle was getting to the airport.  It took Charla & Mirna 56 minutes longer to finish that leg.

Leg 2:  Early task who knows Charla was given the answer by Mary she never figured it out, so we can't actually judge how they would have done it.  But even equalized at the very next part took them 21 minutes longer to perform the bulk of the days task (which they actually did themselves).

Leg 3:  Remove the advantage Eric & Danielle had with an earlier flight and they still finished the leg an hour faster then Charla & Mirna.

Leg 4:  When erasing flight times (which advantage is still Eric & Dani's) Eric & Danielle still complete the days tasks much faster the Charla & Mirna who handle especially teh first part of the days tasks poorly.  And finish the 2nd half slower then Eric & Danielle as well.

Episode 5.  Equalized by Hours of Operation, Eric & Dani finish the first part of the leg with a considerable lead over Charla & Mirna.  The 2nd half of the leg, thanks primarily to a better choice in detour (where they were behind up to getting to that point) they end up with a lead of probably of about an hour and 15 minutes.  It ended up being a very good leg (after being a very poor leg for Charla & Mirna).

Leg 6.  FLight Hell Part 1,  Now racers disagree on how Charla & Mirna got their tickets, but lets give them the benefit of the doubt.  As for the days tasks, difficult to judge as the only times we have our with the boats (and unless they kept a strict time) then its impossible to say.  If the boats took the same amount of time to travel then the team that actually performed the tasks fastest out of all of them was actual was Eric & Danielle.  But I still say give credit to Charla & Mirna on this one.

Leg 7.  Charla & Mirna ran an incredible poor leg, they took more then 2 hors longer then any team to perform the tasks of the day, Eric & Danielle were 2nd fastest with only Dustin & Kandice who ran a near perfect leg doing better.  It took Charla & Mirna over 3 hours and 30 minutes longer then Eric & Dani to perform that legs tasks.

Leg 8.  Equalized Charla & Mirna finished the leg 6 minutes ahead of Eric & Danielle. A serious point (based on clip footage during the actual episode, not Pit Stop) Eric deliberately took his time to get rid of the Guidos as they were tied together for the intersection (one of the few times you could actively hurt another team within the rules).  It might be crappy sportsmanship, but he did it.

Leg 9.  With a strong move on flights Charla & Mirna got a 2 hour and forty minute lead on all teams, Eric & Danielle suffered a yield of 20 - 30 minutes.  So how long did it take each team to perform the days task?  Charla & Mirna 8 hours ad 44 minutes.  Eric & Danielle 5 hours and 45-55 minutes (depending on the length of the YIeld).  In fact its possible even with a huge lead if it wasn't for the Yield Eric & Danielle could have finished the leg in 2nd place.  

Leg 10.  It actually took both teams an equal amount of time to perform the days tasks.  Thanks to Charla & Mirna jumping over Eric & Danielle who were on the standby list before them they ended the leg faster (they also did this in season 5).

Leg 11.  Starting the leg (from the first tasks) 30 minutes after the first team, getting yielded (again 20-30 minutes) and 30 minute penalty from the previous leg)  Eric & Dani actually performed the days tasks faster then any team (even though they ended 3rd).

Leg 12.  Teams get equalized at the starting point for the days tasks Eric & Dani perform the days tasks 34 minutes faster then Charla & Mirna.

Leg 13.  Thanks to their strength in flights Charla & Mirna get a lead of 50 minutes, that thanks to bunching is cut down to 10 minutes staggered departure.  At the ship task they lose their ten minute lead, Eric & Danielle manage to make that up just on the job before getting to the ship.  They far exceed Charla & Mirna  on the rowing, I would assume they manage to gain another ten on the job back.  They then have another task of driving and walking, diving, swimming and walking and driving back to the airport.  I would assume that Eric & Danielle manage to increase their lead her as well as driving and walking/ running are not Charla & Mirna's strong suit.  It is very, very possible their full lead (from the earlier flight is gone).  The rest of the leg, they end up according to racers about 20 -30 minutes later then Eric & Danielle in getting to the Matt (they also never manage to finish that final task, which I still can't believe teams got to leave without completing).  So no matter how you feel about the episode even with an earlier flight and the full amount of that lead, Eric & Dani would have raced the strongest leg on that leg as well.

There is just no real evidence when either just taking simply things like Pit Stop Placement, taking time to complete the days tasks, ect that Charla & Mirna are even close to Eric & Danielle.  And Eric & Jeremy were a much, much stronger team then Eric & Danielle it's not even close according to the racers themselves.

Now I thank they had more to overcome and that many people like them, but the facts as presented on the show (again those can be in error, but its what we have to work with) don't present them as a strong team.  Except of course in arranging flights (in which they do seem to have very strong skills both in research and persuasion.

Offline mswood

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Oops, Sorry.

Offline Hooky

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I agree with mswood. Eric & Danielle may very well have been that season's strongest team (or tied with Dustin & Kandice and Rob & Amber), not counting their truly awful luck. This is why placement is not always a good indicator of racing skill. But what other truly objective measurement do we have?

Offline #HEEL

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I'd like to know the basis for Season 5's field being considered so strong.

Yes, Colin and Christie finished in the top 2 a then-record number of times in a row. But who else did that season have?

Marshall and Lance, who's placements were all over the place until they quit (Note that they may have performed much better had the injury not occured, but we can only speculate)

Charla and Mirna, who argued and fought their way across 4 continents before coming to their end in Africa. They never really wowed me with any of their legs.

Kami and Karli- Enough said  :res:

Linda and Karen- Another team that never really wowed me. They finished either mid-table or towards the back in every leg bar 3. (In fact, apart from these legs, their best finish was 6th in a leg of 9.) They weren't that great, and probably wouldn't be so memorable without Karen's amazing effort on THAT Roadblock.

Brandon and Nicole- They wound up with a handful of good results, and were in the middle so much that I didn't really know they existed until the Fast Forward drama.

Chip and Kim- Perhaps, with Brandon and Nicole, one of the only decent teams in the season.

It should also be noted that Colin performed 8 Roadblocks to Christie's 1.

Basically I'd like to know why Colin and Christy are considered to be so great, but Nick and Starr and Megan and Cheyne are not. Meghan and Cheyne managed to defeat the juggernauts that were Flight Time & Big Easy. And Nick and Starr managed to put together a record string of wins, against Ken and Tina and Toni and Dallas, teams that could have easily won any other season.

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I agree with Coutzy.  Colin and Christie are good, but the S5 cast, although memorable in many ways, were weak racers

and in my opinion, the fact that horribly incompotent teams like
Kami and Karli
Charla and Mirna
Chip and Kim (you have to admit that they are probably the worst winners in terms of overall performance)
really testifies to how weak this season was

not to mention the fact that the guys literally dragged their team to the finals, with each female of the F3 teams only performing 1 roadblock.
Had the equal Roadblock rule been in place, I think this would've been a totally different season.

Nick and Starr had to defeat 4 if not 5 very competitive, compotent (for the most part) F6 teams to win their season

Meghan and Cheyne faced down 3 powerhouse M/M teams, and another team with some of the best luck on the race to get the $1 million
Heck, if it weren't for that Passport debacle, it probably would've been 4/5 M/M teams with M/C

Offline Pedaler

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Thanks for all your work on this,  theschnauzers.  It's fun looking at these types of objective analyses.  I don't have any major objections about the rankings.  There are always outliers in any set of data but that is to be expected.

When I think of the top racers of all time, I have a hard time including the racers of the last few seaons with the best of the early seasons.  They may be as good as the earlier ones but the Amazing Race has cetainly changed.   The shorter and reduced budget races are to me much easier than those in the earlier seasons.  It's kind of like comparing current Quarterback passing statistics in the NFL to those of a generation before.  Football, like the Amazing Race, has changed.

Anyway, I did enjoy reviewing your list.  Any analysis that shows that Dan and Andrew were by far the worst final 3 team in history is OK with me.  They couldn't even beat out Aaron and Ariane.   :lol3:

Offline mswood

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The thing with these is one we need to all (myself included) remember that the requirements for being a strong team are different each season.

Things like remembering when judging seasons 1-4 that teams with great placement averages had to deal with the possibility of another team getting in first not to superior racing but due to their being a fast forward available in all but the final leg.  One could certainly argue that that really handicaps teams from season 1-4.  Then you have the fact that seasons 1-5 allowed one racer to do (though not all teams did some very much split their tasks and responsibilities during the race) which makes it difficult to compare seasons 6-16 to earlier races.  Then you have seasons 13 and up that for the most part have removed what was one of the biggest factors of the race and that is the ability to drive and navigate long distance through various countries.  Then you have things like the Yield or U-Turn where you can deliberately impede the progress of your fellow racers (something seasons 1-4 didn't have).  Then you have your competitors, and let me say that no season has across the board strong racers, each has usually have 4 - 5 teams that simple suck.  And I think its actually gotten worse.  Look at seasons 13-15.  Those seasons have the most penalties, teams that get eliminated through their own carelessness, and choices that just boggle the mind.  

David Junior on some of your points.

If season 5 had to require the women to do half the tasks, I think it would have ended close to the same.  Christie seemed the most driven of the women (in couples), their were no strong male teams at all (so no worries about that), in fact I think it a lot about that seasons that teams like Kami & Karli (who over all just sucked as racers), Charla & Mirna (who managed some flights well, but also had huge problems), and Linda and Karen (who had drive god bless them, but my god they weren't good racers) lasted so late in the race.  

Nick & Starr didn't face strong competition from many teams.  This was a season that is often considered the idiots seasons.  Toni & Dallas (I loved them) killed themselves, Ken & Tina (a good team), Terence & Sarah (Sorry but they weren't that good, probably due to their inability to work well together), Then you had the idiot Frats (one of the most incompetent teams the race has ever had).

Then you had Meghan & Cheyne and lets face it, we have a season were three teams literally take themselves out of the race (Mika & Canaan, Zev & Justin, The Globetrotters), another team taken out due to the inability to perform either RB (and one of them shouldn't have been that hard), a father/son team that was never that competitive.  That leaves you with Sam & Dan (who were good, but erratic and their ability to work together under pressure was a huge flaw), and Brian & Ericka who truly only made it due to two other teams self destructing (similar to what happen in getting the Frats in the final three of season 13).

Offline Caelestor

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I say it's impossible to determine the strongest teams, due to the wild fluctuations in the casts each season.

Furthermore, we have to take into account things like:

Roadblock rule
Taxi Drivers
Airplane Flights
Bunching/HOO
RFF TAR 4: 129 EUR


 

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