December 20, 2014, 02:54:56 PM

Author Topic: Ranking the Teams -- A basis for comparing all teams TAR 1-24 (current)  (Read 46651 times)

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Offline theschnauzers

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24 Races, 267 teams, 488 Racers

Here is a list of all the teams from the 24 seasons to date in order of average leg placement.

The numbers before the team name on each row shows that team's season and that team's overall order of finish in that season. The fraction is a numerator equal to the total ordinal placements from the legs that team raced in added together, divided by the number of legs that team raced. The final number is the average placement taken out to a value of one-ten thousandth. Where more than one team has the same average, a team that completed more legs is ranked ahead of a team that completed fewer legs, and then, for teams that competed for the same number of legs, a team from an earlier season is ranked ahead of a team from a later season. Finally, where there are teams from the same season, with the same average, and lasted for the same number of legs, the team that placed closer to first place is ranked ahead of the other team.

Keep in mind that in seasons 6, 7, 9, and 10, there was an überleg (which is treated as two legs for the purposes of this list), that seasons 18 and 19 had legs with pit stops that had no intervening rest period before the next leg started; that 12 teams competed in seasons 3, 4, 10, and 15, and that ten teams competed in season 8. (In season 22, David-Connor decided to withdraw after starting the fifth leg due to David’s injury in leg 2 that required immediate surgery. While they reached the pit stop before any of the teams completed the leg, they are shown as checking in last for computation purposes.)  Finally, seasons 11, 18, and 24 featured teams with returning Racers only, although in two instances, a team was composed of team members who did not compete together in their earlier season. Teams with more than one appearance are listed separately for each of their seasons.

The lines in navy blue with italics are the final three teams of each season. Teams in dark magneta are the winning teams of each season. The teams that were eliminated during the first leg are in maroon. No team from seasons 18 or 19 is in maroon, as no team was eliminated on the first leg. There is a paragraph break in the list after every tenth team.

The lower the average, the better the team placed on average. The best possible average for a team that reaches the final three (for an 12-leg race with 11 teams) and therefore, completes the Race would be:
(1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1)  12/12= 1.0000.
The worse possible average for a team that reaches the final three (for an 12-leg race with 11 teams) would be:
(11+11+10+10+9+8+7+6+5+4+3+3) 87/12=7.2500.

(I used 12 legs, 11 teams as the most common variation in describing the highest and lowest values. This will vary slightly, depending on the designations of some legs as either NELs or an überleg in the Race design, and for the number of teams (10 to 12) and number of legs (11 to13) for any given season.)

I plan to update this list after every season using this first post.


09-02 Eric-Jeremy      22/13   1.6923
20-01 Rachel-Dave         22/12   1.8333
15-01 Meghan-Cheyne      24/12   2.0000
24-01 Dave - Connor         26/12   2.1666
14-01 Tammy-Victor         27/12   2.2500
20-02 Art-J.J.         27/12   2.2500
07-02 Rob-Amber          30/13   2.3076
01-02 Frank-Margarita      31/13   2.3846
06-02 Kris-Jon           31/13   2.3846
10-01Tyler-James          31/13   2.3846
10
22-01 Bates-Anthony      29/12   2.4166
13-01 Nick-Starr         27/11   2.4545
01-01 Rob-Brennan         32/13   2.4615
05-02 Colin-Christie         32/13   2.4615
09-01 BJ-Tyler         32/13   2.4615
02-02 Tara-Wil         33/13   2.5384
16-02 Jet-Cord         31/12   2.5833
23-03 Nicole-Travis       31/12   2.5833
13-02 Ken-Tina         29/11   2.6363
19-04 Andy-Tommy          29/11   2.6363
20
11-04 Oswald-Danny         32/12   2.6666

03-01 Flo-Zach         35/13   2.6923
03-03 Ken-Gerard         35/13   2.6923
14-03 Margie-Luke         33/12   2.7500

11-08 Rob-Amber           11/4   2.7500
01-03 Joe-Bill         36/13   2.7692
21-05 Abbie-Ryan      25/9    2.7777
24-05 Jet-Cord         28/10   2.8000
08-01 Linz            31/11   2.8181
19-01 Ernie-Cindy          34/12   2.8333

30
23-01   Jason-Amy       35/12    2.9166
06-04 Hayden-Aaron         35/12   2.9166
11-02 Dustin-Kandice        38/13   2.9230
07-03 Ron-Kelly          39/13   3.0000
10-02 Rob-Kimberly         39/13   3.0000

12-06 Azaria-Hendekea         18/6   3.0000
17-03 Jill-Thomas            6/12   3.0000
22-08 David-Connor      15/5   3.0000
04-01 Reichen-Chip         40/13   3.0769
17-01 Nat-Kat            37/12   3.0833

40
03-04 Derek-Drew         34/11   3.0909
15-04 Flight Time-Big Easy      34/11   3.0909
13-04 Toni-Dallas         31/10   3.1000
07-01 Uchenna-Joyce      41/13   3.1538
15-02 Sam-Dan         38/12   3.1666
10-04 Dustin-Kandice         38/12    3.1666
10-07 Peter-Sarah         19/6   3.1666
17-02 Brook-Claire      38/12   3.1666
21-03 Trey-Lexi         38/12    3.1666
12-01 Rachel-TK          35/11   3.1818
50
08-02 Bransen            35/11   3.1818
13-05 Terence-Sarah         26/8   3.2500
18-03 Gary-Malloy      9/12   3.2500
08-03 Weaver         36/11   3.2727
21-04 Nadiya-Natalie      36/11    3.2727
05-03 Brandon-Nicole         43/13   3.3076
18-01 Kisha-Jen         40/12   3.3333
20-03 Brendon-Rachel      41/12   3.4166
01-04 Kevin-Drew         37/11   3.3636
16-06 Steve-Allison         27/8    3.3750
60
02-01 Chris-Alex         44/13   3.3846
05-01 Chip-Kim         44/13   3.3846
23-02 Tim-Marie       41/12   3.4166
12-02 Ronald-Christina       38/11   3.4545
18-04 Zev-Justin          38/11   3.4545
06-01 Freddy-Kendra      45/13   3.4615
06-06 Jonathan-Victoria       32/9   3.5555
14-06 Mel-Mike          25/7   3.5714
19-02 Jeremy - Sandy       43/12   3.5833
21-02 Jaymes-James      43/12   3.5833
70
11-01 Eric-Danielle          47/13   3.6153
12-05 Kynt-Vyxsin         29/8   3.6250
04-05 Millie-Chuck         33/9   3.6666
02-03 Blake-Paige      48/13   3.6923
08-04 Godlewski            37/10   3.7000
12-04 Jennifer-Nathan         37/10   3.7000   
05-06 Charla-Mirna         26/7   3.7142
04-04 Jon-Al            41/11   3.7272
24-04 Leo - Jamal         41/11   3.7272
18-02 Flight Time-Big Easy   45/12   3.7500
80
22-09 Jessica-John         15/4   3.7500
24-03 Brendon - Rachel   45/12   3.7500
09-04 Joseph-Monica         42/11   3.8181
23-04 Leo-Jamal          42/11   3.8181
04-02 Kelly-Jon         50/13   3.8461
02-05 Gary-Dave            35/9   3.8888
14-02 Cara-Jaime         47/12   3.9166
04-03 David-Jeff         52/13   4.0000

16-05 Carol-Brandy         36/9    4.0000
02-04 Oswald-Danny         44/11   4.0000
90
07-05 Lynn-Alex             37/9   4.1111
08-05 Paolo            33/8   4.1250
21-06 James-Abba         33/8    4.1250
02-06 Mary-Peach         29/7   4.1428
22-07 Pam-Winnie         29/7   4.1428
11-03 Charla-Mirna        54/13   4.1538
05-04 Linda-Karen         50/12   4.1666
12-03 Nicolas-Donald      46/11   4.1818
15-05 Gary-Matt            38/9   4.2222
09-03 Ray-Yolanda      55/13   4.2307
100
02-08 Shola-Doyin         17/4   4.2500
15-03 Brian-Ericka      51/12   4.2500
22-02 Max-Katie      51/12   4.2500
24-02 Caroline - Jennifer      51/12   4.2500
14-04 Kisha-Jen            47/11   4.2727
19-07 Justin -Jennifer          30/7   4.2850
16-01 Jordan-Daniel      52/12   4.3333   
16-03 Brent-Caite          52/12   4.3333   
11-05 Uchenna/Joyce          39/9   4.3333
22-03 Mona-Beth      52/12   4.3333
110
16-04 Louie-Michael         48/11   4.3636
19-06 Laurence-Zac          35/8   4.3750
16-08 Joseph-Heidi          22/5    4.4000
19-03 Amani-Marcus       54/12   4.5000
14-08 Amanda-Kris         18/4   4.5000
03-02 Teri-Ian         59/13   4.5384
18-06 Jet-Cord            41/9   4.5555
21-01 Josh-Brent         55/12    4.5833
06-05 Lori-Bolo            46/10   4.6000
10-05 Erwin-Godwin         46/10    4.6000
120
20-05 Mark-Bopper         46/10   4.6000
17-06 Gary-Malloy         37/8   4.6250
10-09 Duke-Lauren         14/3   4.6666
23-09 Chester-Ephraim          14/3   4.6666   
06-03 Adam-Rebecca      61/13   4.6923
22-05 Joey-Meghan         47/10   4.7000
07-06 Brian-Greg          33/7   4.7142
09-06 Lake-Michelle         33/7   4.7142
08-07 Schroeder            19/4   4.7500
17-09 Connor-Jonathan         19/4   4.7500
130
03-05 John Vito-Jill         48/10   4.8000
11-07 Teri-Ian              29/6   4.8333
09-05 Fran-Barry            44/9   4.8888
22-04 Caroline-Jennifer         54/11   4.9090
10-03 Lyn-Karlyn         65/13   5.0000

07-07 Ray-Deanna          30/6   5.0000
04-09 Steve-Josh         20/4   5.0000
01-09 Pat-Brenda         15/3   5.0000
13-09 Mark-Bill            15/3   5.0000
24-08 Margie-Luke         25/5   5.0000
140
17-05 Chad-Stephanie         46/9   5.1111
13-06 Kelly-Christy         36/7    5.1428
03-07 Aaron-Arianne         31/6   5.1666
13-03 Andrew-Dan      57/11   5.1818   
14-05 Mark-Michael         47/9   5.2222
11-06 Joe-Bill              42/8   5.2500
05-08 Bob-Joyce         21/4   5.2500
12-08 Lorena-Jason         21/4   5.2500   
17-04 Nick-Vicki                58/11   5.2727
06-07 Gus-Hera         37/7   5.2857
150
17-07 Michael-Kevin         37/7   5.2857
04-07 Monica-Sheree         32/6   5.3333
05-07 Marshall-Lance         32/6   5.3333
07-09 Debbie-Bianca         16/3   5.3333
16-09 Monique-Shawne          16/3    5.3333
18-08 Margie-Luke         32/6   5.3333
07-04 Meredith-Gretchen         59/11   5.3636
23-06 Nicky-Kim             43/8    5.3750
23-08 Brandon-Adam          27/5    5.4000
17-08 Katie-Rachel         27/5   5.4000
160
04-06 Tian-Jaree            38/7   5.4285
19-05 Bill-Cathi             50/10   5.5000
08-06 Gaghan            33/6   5.5000
05-10 Alison-Donny         11/2   5.5000
20-06 Nary-Jamie         44/8   5.5000
20-07 Joey-Danny         33/6   5.5000
03-06 Andre-Damon         39/7   5.5714
16-07 Jeff-Jordan         34/6    5.6666   
03-09 Heather-Eve         23/4   5.7500
01-05 Nancy-Emily         52/9   5.7777
170
05-05 Kami-Karli            58/10   5.8000
02-07 Cyndy-Russell         29/5   5.8000
03-08 Michael-Kathy         29/5   5.8000
12-07 Shana-Jennifer         29/5   5.8000   
09-07 David-Lori            35/6   5.8333
24-06 Flight Time-Big Easy      47/8   5.8750
20-04 Vanessa-Ralph         54/11   5.9090
04-11 Amanda-Chris         12/2   6.0000
15-08 Lance-Keri            30/5   6.0000   
15-09 Zev-Justin            24/4   6.0000
180
18-05 Kent-Vyxsin         60/10   6.0000
18-07 Ronald-Christina         42/7   6.0000
21-07 Rob-Kelley         36/6    6.0000
21-10 Amy-Daniel         12/2    6.0000
23-05 Ally-Ashley          55/9    6.1111
10-06 David-Mary         49/8   6.1250
22-06 Chuck-Wynona         49/8   6.1250
24-07 John - Jessica         43/7   6.1428
23-07 Tim-Danny           37/6    6.1666
04-08 Steve-Dave         31/5   6.2000
190
13-07 Aja-Ty            31/5    6.2000
09-09 Wanda-Desiree         25/4   6.2500
21-09 Caitlin-Brittany      19/3    6.3333
01-06 Lenny-Karen         45/7   6.4285
01-08 David-Margaretta        26/4   6.5000
07-08 Susan-Patrick         26/4   6.5000
08-09 Rogers            13/2   6.5000
23-10 Rowan-Shane          13/2    6.5000
18-11 Amanda-Kris         13/2   6.5000
15-06 Maria-Tiffany         46/7   6.5714
200
01-07 Paul-Amie         33/5   6.6000
14-07 Christie-Jodi         40/6   6.6666
14-09 Brad-Victoria         20/3   6.6666
20-08 Kerri-Stacy      34/5   6.8000
10-08 Tom-Terry         28/4   7.0000
06-09 Lena-Kristy         21/3   7.0000
08-08 Aiello            21/3   7.0000
19-09 Kaylani-Lisa          21/3   7.0000
02-10 Hope-Norm         14/2   7.0000
19-10 Ethan-Jenna          14/2   7.0000
210
05-09 Jim-Marsha         22/3   7.3333
15-07 Mika-Canaan         46/6   7.6666
15-10 Marcy-Ron         23/3   7.6666
13-08 Marisa-Brooke         31/4   7.7500
09-08 Danielle-Dani         39/5   7.8000
18-09 Cara-Jaime         39/5   7.8000
19-08 Liz-Marie          39/5   7.8000
06-08 Don-Mary Jean         40/5   8.0000
01-10 Kim-Leslie         16/2   8.0000
10-10 Kellie-Jamie         16/2    8.0000
220
20-09 Elliot-Andrew      24/3   8.0000
24-10 Mark - Mallory      16/2   8.0000
21-08 Gary-Will         33/4    8.2500   
04-10 Russell-Cindy         25/3   8.3333
12-09 Marianna-Julia         25/3   8.3333
18-10 Mel-Mike            25/3   8.3333
02-09 Peggy-Claire         27/3   9.0000
03-10 Dennis-Andrew         27/3   9.0000
06-10 Meredith-Maria         18/2   9.0000
11-09 David-Mary           27/3   9.0000
230
12-10 Kate-Pat            18/2   9.0000
20-10 Dave-Cherie         18/2   9.0000
22-10 Idries-Jamil      18/2   9.0000
24-09 Joey - Meghan      28/3   9.3333   
07-10 Megan-Heidi         19/2   9.5000
13-10 Anthony-Stephanie      19/2   9.5000
14-10 Linda-Steve         19/2   9.5000
15-11 Garrett-Jessica         19/2   9.5000
17-10 Andie-Jenna         19/2   9.5000
19-11 Ron-Bill          19/2   9.5000
240
09-10 Lisa-Joni            20/2   10.0000
11-10 Kevin-Drew           20/2   10.0000
16-10 Jody-Shannon          20/2   10.0000
08-10 Black         10/1   10.0000
03-11 Tramel-Talicia         21/2   10.5000
01-11 Matt-Ana         11/1   11.0000
02-11 Deidre-Hillary         11/1   11.0000
05-11 Dennis-Erika         11/1   11.0000
06-11 Joe-Avi            11/1    11.0000
07-11 Ryan-Chuck          11/1    11.0000
250
09-11 John-Scott            11/1   11.0000
10-11 Vipul-Arti            11/1   11.0000
11-11 John Vito-Jill         11/1   11.0000
12-11 Ari-Staella            11/1   11.0000
13-11 Anita-Arthur         11/1   11.0000
14-11 Jennifer-Preston         11/1   11.0000
16-11 Adrian-Dana          11/1    11.0000
17-11 Ron-Tony            11/1   11.0000
20-11 Misa-Maiya         11/1   11.0000
21-11 Rob-Sheila         11/1    11.0000
260
22-11 Matthew-Daniel       11/1   11.0000
23-11Hoskote -- Naina       11/1    11.0000
24-11 Natalie - Nadiya       11/1   11.0000
03-12 Gina-Sylvia         12/1   12.0000
04-12 Debra-Steve         12/1   12.0000
10-12 Bilal-Sa'eed           12/1   12.0000
15-12 Eric-Lisa         12/1   12.0000

« Last Edit: May 26, 2014, 08:02:38 PM by theschnauzers »
-- theschnauzers


Offline Mister RC

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Awesome list, as always. I think I saw you do this elsewhere in the past.  I totally agree with counting TBC's as two legs (as there are typically 2 RB/Detours within the "one leg").  Sadly, it gets difficult to have a perfect comparison when you factor in races from TAR12 to the most recent TAR.  That's due to the 11-leg format used from TAR's 12-14.

Something I did on my now "deceased" geocities site for the first 9 seasons was that I also factored in each team's placement vs. the field within each segment.  In other words, it's each team's placement out of the # of teams the beat (or that beat them) within each leg.  For instance, Flo & Zach finished 2nd in their first leg.  I multiplied that by 12 (then 5*11 and 3*10 and so on to get to a total of 249 for Flo & Zach). 

After the overall number was reached, I divided it by the total number of teams that raced in each leg throughout the race.  For TAR3, that total would be 88 (12+11+10+9+8+7+6+5+5+5+4+3+3=88).  Therefore, factoring the field in addition to a team's placement and the number of legs that team completed would have given Flo & Zach an average of 2.83.

It's a little bit higher than the 2.69 that you had, but IMO, I feel that it was more of an accomplishment seeing someone win a couple of legs with 9 or more teams racing in that leg, compared to someone winning 2 (or more) legs with 4 or 5 teams remaining.

I think I saved the other teams placement somewhere else, but I don't know for sure (or it's buried somewhere & I'd be better off recreating it to include season 10 and beyond).  I like your list though in general; really gives a nice look toward how a lot of the teams performed overall during their stay on the race.
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Offline apskip

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The raw statistics are a good start, but I think the difficulty of prime opponents is another factor. Here are teams that won despite relatively equal performance by another team:

Uchenna/Joyce  AR7 (opp. Rob/Amber)
BJ/Tyler AR9 (opp. Eric/Jeremy)
Chris/Alex AR2 (opp. Wil/Tara)
Freddie/Kendra AR6 (opp. Kris/Jon)
Nick/Starr AR13 (opp. Ken/Tina)
 
I think a way needs to be developed to factor in dominance of a season despite not winning it. The prime example of this is Colin/Christie, who lost of Chip/Kim only by multiple instances of bad luck (fog in Calgary, bad advice from American Airlines, tire blowout in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area).

I believe that the necessary judgments to determine "who is the best team of all time" are inherently subjective. Statistics can only take you so far. You have to develop essentially qualitative measures that get somehow translated into numbers in order to accomplish a decent ranking.



Offline #HEEL

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Rob and Brennan also managed to beat a team that performed roughly equal to them (Avg. place difference between them and Frank and Margarita was roughly .08)

Offline theschnauzers

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There is an earlier version of this over at TWoP, but I haven't updated it in recent seasons, and there were inconsistencies in computation that needed to be fixed. I also decided that rather than round off decimals, I'd take the fractions out 4 digits. And the attitude of TPTB there isn't receptive to this sort of thing anymore, so it was time to move it elsewhere, such as here.

I've reached the conclusion that the variations in the number of legs and teams wouldn't likely make a real difference in this type of measurement. Dominating teams in a season are reflected in this placement approach; you need look no further than at the teams currently listed at the top of the listing. I'd also look at the final three teams that have the highest values, such as the ones averaging 5.0000 or higher, and I think there's little argument that some final three teams were very, very, lucky to make final three.

One problem in using mid-leg points to fine-tune placements is that the show is inconsistent in providing such points from leg-to-leg and season-to-season. Then there's the issue of bunching, and the issue of filmed but unaired tasks and route markers, both of which make having complete ordinal information impossible.

Finally, keep in mind that this is intended to be an objective tool, and not reflect subjective opinions. Of course, this listing is a starting point for those types of discussion, but that's fine with me. I doubt there would be any consensus on subjectively developed performance rankings anyhow.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2010, 01:21:57 AM by theschnauzers »
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Offline chill_sd

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It's interesting when you look at All-Stars.  Except for the bottom three teams,  a pretty close ranking.

11-04 Oswald/Danny      32/12   2.6666
11-08 Rob/Amber        11/4      2.7500
11-02 Dustin/Kandice     38/13   2.9230
11-01 Eric/Danielle    47/13   3.6153
11-03 Charla/Mirna     54/13   4.1538
11-05 Uchenna/Joyce    39/9      4.3333
11-07 Teri/Ian           29/6      4.8333
11-06 Joe/Bill           42/8      5.2500
11-09 David/Mary        27/3      9.0000
11-10 Kevin/Drew        20/2      10.0000
11-11 John Vito/Jill         11/1      11.0000

Offline Hooky

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I love your list! I've been hoping for someone to post something like this for a while. Thanks! :wohoo:

I found an error, though. In Season 7 you have it listed as being out of 12 legs, but if you count double-legs that would result in a total of 13 legs, not 12. That also means that Lynn & Alex raced through 9/13 legs, and Meredith and Gretchen raced through 11/13 legs.

Offline theschnauzers

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Quote
I found an error, though. In Season 7 you have it listed as being out of 12 legs, but if you count double-legs that would result in a total of 13 legs, not 12. That also means that Lynn & Alex raced through 9/13 legs, and Meredith and Gretchen raced through 11/13 legs.

I kept each season's leg-by-leg placements, so I'll double-check when I get a chance. As you can gather, it's a very painstaking process, and all it takes is one interruption to mess up. And making sure all the uberlegs got treated consistently meant that I had to move teams up and down since originally I counted them as separate legs in some seasons and not in others. But the show has never failed to show the order of the mid-point arrivals for a double-leg, so it makes it easier to equitably treat it as two legs.

As to All-Stars , I think the numbers can be said to show that it was a fairly wide open season once Romber were out of the way.  It's also surprising how many of the All-Star Teams had similar placement averages to their original season(s), which is what helped convince me that the approach I'm using to compute this list was the fairest way to go.
-- theschnauzers

Offline theschnauzers

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OK, I have found the problem, and fixed the list. It turns out that at some point the placements for leg 5 of season 7 got lost in the merged notes I worked from this week, although they were in my original notes I made back in season seven. I've recomputed the values for the seven teams affected, and re-ordered the list with the correct values for those teams.
-- theschnauzers

Offline racer

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Wow, amazing work! This is sensational, and I thank you for producing this! :hearts:
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Offline Benedicto

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I love this

but there's another way to know dominance ^_^

From wuming01:

For each leg, the placement is weighted (by multiplying the percentile total, in decimals, the team placed in comparison to all teams taking part in the leg).
I'M ON THE EDGE WITH YOU

Offline theschnauzers

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Coming in first (or second) on most of the legs appears to be what most people mean by dominance; and in several of the seasons, there were more than one dominant team, and sometimes neither of those teams won the final leg.

In other words, there are different ways to define that term, and as a result, there's probably a mathematical formula to meet every different definition. This is where I apply the K-I-S-S principle, and that explains the reason why my approach is what it is.  

I should point out that comparing any two teams using this list is relative and not intended to be exact; I think one could reasonably asset that where several teams are within say, .01 of a given placement value, and they raced in approximately the same number of legs, that those performances are essentially equal. But that is a subjective interpretation, and not necessarily a conclusion cast in concrete definitiveness. (Think about it, it's a play on words. :fun)
« Last Edit: February 06, 2010, 12:41:27 AM by theschnauzers »
-- theschnauzers

Offline nathandg0924

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Wow, this is very interesting, hopefully you post more

Offline mswood

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Years ago I used to do this for the site (but it got to long doing every team) The only question I have is for the DBL leg, I assume you count how they performed during each half of the leg.  And if so in season 9, who got to the matt first Dani & Danielle or Wanda & Desiree (I could never tell with the footage we got).

And for the Family Edition, The finale leg as two full legs in it, but where do you split it.  At getting to the stadium or after they got their departure times?

As to factors, pure numbers aren't enough to go on. 

For example seasons 1-5 had fast forwards available in all but one leg, these means in the legs a fast forward was used it alters the possible outcome in relation to other season.

Then you have the fact that seasons 1-5 let any racer perform all roadblocks.

Season one (and a few other times over the years, but season one was of course the worst) had much harder clues then most all other seasons.  They also unlike any other season had no idea what to expect.

Seasons 13 and on, they had dramatically cut back on how much teams drive (this used to be a huge factor in how well you did).

Hell look at All Stars, and see how one airport mess really screwed with teams.  Impacting several legs.

Offline theschnauzers

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I don't look at episodes, I look at legs. (Only in the case of uberlegs, do I break it at all, and that's because we've always been shown the order of teams reaching the "continue racing" midpoint (even if that's been over two episodes, which is usually the case.)

Wiki doesn't keep track of that detail, but I have in my notes. One secondary source would normally be the CBS website, but those are impossible to retrieve these days, but Miss Alli's recaps also noted that information. (In other words, I trust my notes, as I've kept track of leg order of finish in real time ever since season three-- and reconstructing the first two seasons was easier then since CBS had "leg-by-leg leader boards." And that's true notwithstanding that CBS messed up a placement in season three that they never fixed.)

My theory is that notwithstanding the changes in how the over-all racecourse is designed (such as increased bunching) the overall average is what has value and not every single placement in each leg, or at points in the leg. It's like for other things, it is a measure of overall performance and not the moment to moment performance. Luck plays a role in winning the last leg; and no matter how you slice it, that can't really be measured....e.g., the Indianapolis Colts and the New Orleans Saints. (Just try telling me that the on-side kick play call in the third quarter wasn't a bit of luck.)
-- theschnauzers

Offline mswood

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The reason I mentioned the first part of season 9's leg (is that we don't see it happen, not even from clips, so I always hated that).  All we see is both on the matt at the same time (and order on the matt left or right isn't always the order).

As for the Family Edition, that final leg I hate (actually its their best leg), but I hate to figure out where the break would be.


Offline mswood

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After looking at your list.  I think you don't consider season 8 final to be a DBL leg (though it does have all elements of one 2 roadblocks, 2 detours all in different citites).

Offline theschnauzers

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Take a look at how that final Family Edition leg was constructed, and you'll find that it was next to impossible to determine a specific point as the mid-point of the leg. (I pulled out my DVD, looked at my surviving notes, looked at Wiki, and Miss Alli's recap of that episode.)

Even Wikipedia calls the Olympic Stadium in Montreal as an "ostensible leg midpoint" because of the ambiguity of the situation. Was it the order of arrival at the stadium, the order teams found the clues in the searching task in the stadium before resting overnight,  or the time of departure the following morning? (All of which resulted in a different team order.)

In the other seasons with uberlegs, the double-length legs had a specific midpoint where teams were instructed to keep racing; and in season six (which was unplanned), the midpoint was generally considered to be the overnight wait at the cafe in Budapest. In many ways the FE final leg was similar to most of the early seasons where teams had an overnight wait that was not a pit stop in mid-leg of the final leg. With that in mind, I'm comfortable that the final leg in the Family Edition couldn't be treated as a true uberleg.
-- theschnauzers

Offline mswood

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Sorry If I sounded like I was complaining about what you used, trust me I was complaining because I could never decide on which point to use as it effect all three teams.  Personally as much as I hate the weavers I want to say arriving at the Stadium (since no other leg in race history has you looking for you departure times for your next episode, its always on that next episode).  Of course, then the other arguement is that every TBC leg also allows a rest period between legs (that would mean its after you find your departure times, thus my grey hair).

Oh but I was wrong about Dani & Danielle & Wanda & Desiree it is stated on air (what was I smoking, now off to see if I wrote it down current or wrong).

Offline jtarhead11

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 :tup:  Great research and work...  However, I'm interested in a different sort of list.  I'm hoping someone can help me out.  I'm curious to know, from the beginning of the race, the total # of m/m, f/f and m/f teams; the total # of openly gay male racers, (either on the same team or individually) vs openly lesbian racers; the # of "differently-able" racers; the # of racers in their 20s, 30s, 40s, etc; the racial breakdown of the racers: Asian, African American, Caucasian, Middle Eastern, etc...  Consider it a sort of TAR census.  I'd like to see the equality in The Amazing Race, (or lack thereof).  Perhaps these #s could help broaden the horizons of the casting process, make for more original and interesting Amazing Race Seasons, and expand the fan base...  Just wondering, thanks for the help!! 

Offline #HEEL

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There are some problems with your proposal. Largely, how do you define "Differently-able"? A case could be made either way for Luke and Charla. Both these racers had a handicap while competing, but such a handicap wouldn't get them any parking privileges.

My point is, where do you draw the line? In these days, where obesity is considered a disability by some, who decides what makes differently-able on the race?

Offline georgiapeach

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Let's leave THIS thread for theschnauzers updates and discussion of that technique please.

All that info you are asking for is widely available, if you want to start another thread and ask for help, feel free jtarhead11. I personally find adding labels to teams rather distasteful though, but I see where you are going.

Back to topic please. :)
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Offline jtarhead11

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Let's leave THIS thread for theschnauzers updates and discussion of that technique please.

All that info you are asking for is widely available, if you want to start another thread and ask for help, feel free jtarhead11. I personally find adding labels to teams rather distasteful though, but I see where you are going.

Back to topic please. :)

 :groan:  Georgiapeach, didn't mean to offend, and I'm certainly not trying to "label" anymore than the race already does. I was merely trying to explore some of the inequities in casting.  For example, did you know that, including season 16, only 7 openly gay women have been chosen for the race, while the number of openly gay men is at my count at least 21.  Seems a bit unfair don't you think??  And how many young, Caucasian Barbie and Ken type teams have been on??  Seriously, too many to count, but then America never gets tired of Barbie and Ken.   :lol:

But you're right, I should have started another thread to discuss this so as not to distract from theschnauzers AWESOME statistics skills!   

Offline DeafRacer

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There are some problems with your proposal. Largely, how do you define "Differently-able"? A case could be made either way for Luke and Charla. Both these racers had a handicap while competing, but such a handicap wouldn't get them any parking privileges.

My point is, where do you draw the line? In these days, where obesity is considered a disability by some, who decides what makes differently-able on the race?

Hey now! I am no "disability"  :neener:    My deafness wasn't a big problem for me on the Race. Hence, my mom and I finished in Top Four in every leg for entire race! Isn't that pretty impressive?

But under the law, I am labeled as disability. Oh well.

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There are some problems with your proposal. Largely, how do you define "Differently-able"? A case could be made either way for Luke and Charla. Both these racers had a handicap while competing, but such a handicap wouldn't get them any parking privileges.

My point is, where do you draw the line? In these days, where obesity is considered a disability by some, who decides what makes differently-able on the race?

Hey now! I am no "disability"  :neener:    My deafness wasn't a big problem for me on the Race. Hence, my mom and I finished in Top Four in every leg for entire race! Isn't that pretty impressive?

But under the law, I am labeled as disability. Oh well.

Luke's only disability has something to do with a certain Chinese bird...


 

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