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Author Topic: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information  (Read 59390 times)

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Offline apskip

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Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #100 on: February 05, 2009, 03:36:14 PM »
Flights Bangkok to Guangzhou to Guilin for Tueday Nov. 18

You run into some major discontinuities going to Guilin due to no service on somee days and minimal service on some. Essentially, we need to tackle this one backwards looking at Guangzhou (CAN) to Guilin (KWL) first. There are only 2 flights on Nov. 18, Shenzen Air 9637 0740 0845 and Shenzen Air 9669 2110 2225. Due to the near impossiblity of any team getting from Bangkok to Guangzhou in time for the 740am departure(only flights arriving Guanzhou before 2220 the prior evening can do it, we are effectively dealing with the latter. There are are 5 nonstop flights, but three of them leave late enough that they cannot connect even with the 910pm flight. The viable flights are TG668 0950 1330 and MS958 1310 1655.  


Offline Chateau d If

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Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #101 on: February 06, 2009, 12:50:09 AM »
This shot was taken between 8:08 and 8:20 am (assumes October 31st).

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Offline puddin

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Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #102 on: February 06, 2009, 12:58:51 AM »
Thank you Chateau!!!

Offline DrRox

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Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #103 on: February 06, 2009, 02:53:19 AM »
Thank you, Chateau!!!!
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Offline apskip

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Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #104 on: February 06, 2009, 10:30:12 AM »
From the timeline, here are the flights already identified as highest probability:

A different route goes LAX to Milan-Malpensa(MXP) as follows: TN022 1145 0845+1 connecting with AF1214 0945+1 1145+1

From LAX to Milan-Linate a similar schedule applies:
TN (Air Tahiti Nui) 022  LAX CDG  1145 0845+1, conecting with  XM5997  CDG LIN 0935+1 1110+1

From LAX to Zurich via Frankfurt we have the interesting combination:
LH457  LAX FRA  1435 1025+1 connecting with LH3726   FRA ZRH  1200 1255

for Milan arrivals, the public transportation schedule is:
Shuttle bus leaves airport  Arrival in Bellinzona at  Connecting train leaves  Arrival in Locarno 
12:30                                           14:20                              14:39                        14:58 

for zurich arrivals, it is:
depart Zurich airport                  13:47 
Zurich HB (main station)             14:09     
Arth-Goldau                                14:52     
Bellinzona                                  16:40
arrive Locarno tain station         17:07 
« Last Edit: February 06, 2009, 10:35:48 AM by apskip »


Offline Chateau d If

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Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #105 on: February 06, 2009, 11:00:57 AM »
The "Go" is early compared to other known start times.  So, apskip, your LAX to Milan flights leaving at 11:45 am are clear winners.  One or both.  Ordinarily, as in previous TAR seasons,  first flights are in the range of 2 pm.  It looks like about a 2 hour shift to get that flight out of LAX.

I hope this turns out to be true because of the strong difference in the two approaches  to Locarno:  From Zurich vs from Milan.  It's more than just checking to see which flight lands first.  We've had 13 seasons of that lesson.  Now we can graduate to a new one.
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Offline DrRox

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Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #106 on: February 06, 2009, 01:02:17 PM »
I hope it is true,'too. A 4/7 split. I should make for some interesting conversations on the way to LAX. It would appear to me to give an edge to the teams that understand/know the Los Angeles freeway system. Three teams with Los Angeles backgrounds and one from San Diego might just be the 4 breakaways.

Great call on the LAX-Milano connections, apskip. I have not traveled in Europe since the creation of the EU. Just where would these teams clear immigration/customs? Frankfurt or Zurich?  Paris or Milano? What is the procedure over there, these days?
« Last Edit: February 06, 2009, 01:10:32 PM by DrRox »
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Offline apskip

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Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #107 on: February 06, 2009, 01:08:00 PM »
AR14 Timeline(revised 2/6):

NOTE: I have made changes for Interlaken through Romania. The net effect of them is to have leg 3 be to Salzburg and legs 4 and 5 be in Romania. I am reissuing this so you can look at the many small changes which are incorporated as well.


Oct. 31 leg 1 depart U.S. for Locarno, Switzerland via Frankfurt and Zurich or via Milan:

LAX to Milan-Malpensa(MXP) as follows: TN022 1145 0845+1 connecting with AF1214 0945+1 1145+1

Here are the bus schedules in the same time frame:
Shuttle bus leaves airport  Arrival in Bellinzona at  Connecting train leaves  Arrival in Locarno 
12:30                                           14:20                              14:39                        14:58 
14:30                                           16:20                              16:39                        16:58 

From LAX to Milan-Linate a similar schedule applies:
TN (Air Tahiti Nui) 022  LAX CDG  1145 0845+1, conecting with  XM5997  CDG LIN 0935+1 1110+1

From LAX to Zurich via Frankfurt we have the interesting combination:
LH457  LAX FRA  1435 1025+1 connecting with LH3726   FRA ZRH  1200 1255

What I find most interesting is the fit LH457/LH3726 has with the observer comments about seeing 7 teams in Frankfurt Airport the morning of Saturday Nov. 1. I expect no other reason to go to Frankfurt except to connect to Zurich. There are 10 nonstop flights on Saturday between Frankfurt and Zurich, so if any are delayed there are alternatives.

The train schedule from Zurich to Bellinzona to Locarno indicates that 3 1/4 hours is required. Here is is:

Train leaves airport Change in  Connecting train leaves  Arrival in Locarno 
11:47  Zurich HB (main station)             12:09     
                                Arth-Goldau           12:52     
                                 Bellinzona             14:40                         15:06 
12:47  Zurich HB (main station)             13:09     
                                 Bellinzona             15:40                         16:06 
13:47  Zurich HB (main station)             14:09     
                              Arth-Goldau             14:52     
                                 Bellinzona             16:40                         17:07 
16:47   Zurich HB(main station)             17:09
                              Bellinzona                19:40                         19:06


It is my belief that AR14 teams used a minimum of 2 flight combinations to get to Locarno. One may be to Milan, another to Zurich directly, and a third to Zurich via Frankfurt.

Nov. 1 arrive mid-morning in Europe and reach Locarno sometime in the afternoon; then tasks; this might be a TBC to allow known timing of next leg, but probably isn't
Nov. 2 Verzasca Dam bungee jump then Locarno to Domodossola to Spiez to Interlaken by train; then tasks in Interlaken
dep. Locarno 1047 arr. Domodossola 1235
dep. Domodossola 1248 arr. Spiez 1353
dep. Spiez 1425 arr. Interlaken West 1454 or dep. Spiez 1432 arr. Interlaken West 1451
total trip is 4 hours train

There is an alternate train route through the Goschenen Tunnel

Interlaken tasks

Nov. 3 leg 2 Interlaken possibly by rail to Zurich, then plane to Salzburg; arrival possibilities mid-morning, mid-afternoon, and late evening
From Interlaken to Salzburg, the early morning Tuesday(as in Nov.4) train schedules are:

dep. Interlaken West 0605 transfer trains in Spiez, Romanschorn, 7 min. walk to ship, ship to Frederichshafen ship terminal, 5 min. walk to Hafen station, 2 min. train to Frederichshafen station, Ulm, then arr. Salzburg 1454 after a 8 hour 53 minute trip OR
dep. Interlaken West 0731 transfer trains in Spiez, Bern, Zurich arr. Salzburg 1529 after a 8 hour 0 minute trip

More likely it will be a 5.5 hour (standard case with no getting lost along the way) self-drive car trip west to east within sight of the Alps all the way to Bertechsgaden

Tasks in Bertechsgaden and Raushberg parasailing.
Evening Pit stop in Salzburg

Nov. 4 leg 3 depart Salzburg for Bucharest, with several late-night flight options:
through Munich drive back from Salzburg early evening, then LH3424 2130 0025 MUC OTP
through Frankfurt OS269 1830 1950 SGZ FRA connecting to LH3416 2030 0005 FRA OTP

Nov. 6 arrival in Bucharest after midnight; transfer to train to get to Brasov
morning train departures: Bucharest Nord 2358 arr. Brasov 0246  or  dep. 0630 0922  or  dep. 0730 1019  or  dep. 0616 1051(note: nobody would want this) or  0830 1124  or  0942 1254  or  1130 1404
Nov. 7 tasks in Brasov
pit stop in Transylvania (includes Brasov)

Nov. 8 leg 5 AR14 Timeline(revised 1/26 exactly 2 months after the prio version):

1.First there is a comment on what happens between Phuket and Guilin. The most obvious possibility is a leg in Bangkok, but if WRP has a "Been there, done that" attitude like me, I want to see somewhere else in southeast Asia next.
2. We haven't a clue on where in India AR14 is going except that air connections through Delhi on to Bangkok and Phuket are probable. We know that you can easily get to Phuket via Singapore alao.


Oct. 31 leg 1 depart U.S. for Locarno, Switzerland via Frankfurt and Zurich or via Milan:
LAX to Milan-Malpensa(MXP) as follows: TN022 1145 0845+1 connecting with AF1214 0945+1 1145+1

Here are the bus schedules in the same time frame:
Shuttle bus leaves airport  Arrival in Bellinzona at  Connecting train leaves  Arrival in Locarno 
12:30                                           14:20                              14:39                        14:58 
14:30                                           16:20                              16:39                        16:58 

From LAX to Milan-Linate a similar schedule applies:
TN (Air Tahiti Nui) 022  LAX CDG  1145 0845+1, conecting with  XM5997  CDG LIN 0935+1 1110+1

From LAX to Zurich via Frankfurt we have the interesting combination:
LH457  LAX FRA  1435 1025+1 connecting with LH3726   FRA ZRH  1200 1255

Note: some of those above are too early to get if the taditional Amazing Race start timing holds.

What I find most interesting is the fit LH457/LH3726 has with the observer comments about seeing 7 teams in Frankfurt Airport the morning of Saturday Nov. 1. I expect no other reason to go to Frankfurt except to connect to Zurich. There are 10 nonstop flights on Saturday between Frankfurt and Zurich, so if any are delayed there are alternatives.

The train schedule from Zurich to Bellinzona to Locarno indicates that 3 1/4 hours is required. Here is is:

Train leaves airport Change in  Connecting train leaves  Arrival in Locarno 
11:47  Zurich HB (main station)             12:09     
                                Arth-Goldau           12:52     
                                 Bellinzona             14:40                         15:06 
12:47  Zurich HB (main station)             13:09     
                                 Bellinzona             15:40                         16:06 
13:47  Zurich HB (main station)             14:09     
                              Arth-Goldau             14:52     
                                 Bellinzona             16:40                         17:07 
16:47   Zurich HB(main station)             17:09
                              Bellinzona                19:40                         19:06


It is my belief that AR14 teams used a minimum of 2 flight combinations to get to Locarno. One may be to Milan, another to Zurich directly, and a third to Zurich via Frankfurt.

Nov. 1 arrive mid-morning in Europe and reach Locarno sometime in the afternoon; then tasks; this might be a TBC to allow known timing of next leg, but probably isn't in which case we have a pit stop

Nov. 2 leg 2 Locarno to Domodossola to Spiez to Interlaken by train; then tasks in Interlaken
dep. Locarno 1047 arr. Domodossola 1235
dep. Domodossola 1248 arr. Spiez 1353
dep. Spiez 1425 arr. Interlaken West 1454 or dep. Spiez 1432 arr. Interlaken West 1451
total trip is 4 hours train

Nov. 3 leg 3 Interlaken probably by rail to Zurich, then plane to Salzburg; arrival possibilities mid-morning, mid-afternoon, and late evening
From Interlaken to Salzburg, the early morning Tuesday(as in Nov.4) train schedules are:

dep. Interlaken West 0605 transfer trains in Spiez, Romanschorn, 7 min. walk to ship, ship to Frederichshafen ship terminal, 5 min. walk to Hafen station, 2 min. train to Frederichshafen station, Ulm, then arr. Salzburg 1454 after a 8 hour 53 minute trip OR
dep. Interlaken West 0731 transfer trains in Spiez, Bern, Zurich arr. Salzburg 1529 after a 8 hour 0 minute trip

Based on the above, it seems more likely that teams flew to Salzburg on Nov. 4. In order to do that the optimal route is to take a train from Interlaken to Bern(somtimes changing first in Spiez) and then change for Bern to Zurich. The trains that fit are:

First train is dep. Interlaken West 522 transfer at Bern, arr. Zurich HB 0728, transfer there to Zurich Airport dep. HB 0746 arr. Airport 0747,  a difficult 23 minute connection to make the first flight below from Zurich airport; see a. below for best flight
Next is dep. Interlaken West 1031 transfer at Bern, arr. Zurich HB 1228 dep.HB 1237 arr. Airport 1246; see b. below for best flight
Last is dep. Interlaken West 1729 transfer at Spiez and Bern, arr. Zurich HB 1928, dep. HB 1937 arr. Airport 1946; see c. below for best flight

At Zurich there are  several nonstop flights to Salzburg, each with a connection from one of the train trips above:

a. C91202/LX4290  0810 0915  ZRH SGZ
b. C91204/Lx4292  1335 1440  ZRH SGZ
c. C91208/LX4294  2040 2145  ZRH SGZ
tasks in Salzburg
pit stop

Nov. 4 leg 4 depart Salzburg for Bucharest, with several late-night flight options:
through Munich drive back form Salzburg early evening, then LH3424 2130 0025 MUC OTP
through Frankfurt OS269 1830 1950 SGZ FRA connecting to LH3416 2030 0005 FRA OTP

Nov. 5 arrival in Bucharest after midnight; transfer to train to get to Brasov
morning train departures: Bucharest Nord 2358 arr. Brasov 0246  or  dep. 0630 0922  or  dep. 0730 1019  or  dep. 0616 1051(note: nobody would want this) or  0830 1124  or  0942 1254  or  1130 1404
tasks in Brasov area, ending with either a TBC or normal pitstop

Nov. 6 more tasks in Transylvania plus possibly Bucharest

Nov. 7 pit stop somewhere in Romania

Nov. 8 leg 5 get to Bucharest if not already there
leave Transylvania for Krasnojarsk
RO341 Bucharest (OTP)  -  Vienna (VIE)0835 0920,  FV204 Vienna (VIE)  -  St Petersburg (LED) 1050 1530, FV573 St. Petersburg (LED)  -  Krasnojarsk (KJA) 1800 0240+1   OR
LO642  Bucharest (OTP)  -  Warsaw (WAW)1435 1520, LO677 Warsaw (WAW)  -  Moscow (SVO) 1600 2010, SU781 Moscow (SVO)  -  Krasnojarsk (KJA) 0045+1 0910+1   OR
TH1444 Bucharest (OTP)  -  Istanbul (IST) 1050 1215, TK1415 Istanbul (IST)  -  Moscow (SVO) 1335 1740, SU779 Moscow (SVO)  -  Krasnojarsk (KJA) 2055 0540+1

Nov. 9 do tasks and finish with TBC allowing teams to board TransSiberian Express in late afternoon
Here is the schedule from Krasnojarsk to Novosibirsk on a weekday:

Dep.Kr  Arr.No Duration
00:57  14:09  13:12   
02:01  17:27  15:26 
04:10  16:01  11:51   
05:59  20:06  14:07   
06:52  18:51  11:59   
07:18   22:52  15:34     
08:05   21:24  13:19     
10:09   23:55  13:46     
10:36   23:12  12:36     
11:16   00:58  13:42     
12:36   01:12  12:36     
13:51   02:24  12:33     
14:37   04:19  13:42     
15:27   04:33  13:06     
18:26   06:47  12:21     
23:36   12:38  13:02   

My guess is that teams would be ready to leave Krasnojarsk based on a TBC on the 1351, 1437, or 1527 trains.

Nov. 10 leg 6 TransSiberian Express arrival in Novosibirsk
ride on Trans Siberian Express train trip to Novosibirsk
tasks in Novosibirsk, Siberia
pit stop

Nov. 12 leg 7 flights Novosibirsk to Moscow to Delhi, India and on to somewhere in northern India
SU810 Novosibirsk (OVB)  -  Moscow (SVO) 0700 0815, KC872 Moscow (SVO)  -  Almaty (ALA) 0920 1645, KC907 Almaty (ALA)  -  Delhi (DEL) 1805 2115
 then connecting to unknown city in India
tasks
pit stop

Nov. 14 leg 8 leave "somewhere in northern India" to Bangkok

Nov. 15 fly Bangkok to Phuket apparently on TG203 0740 0850, then tasks in Phuket area
pit stop

Nov. 16 leg 9 possibly fly from Phuket to Bangkok
Choices for flights are: TG226 0725 0850, TG1204 0935 1100, PG272 1025 1145, TG1206 1235 1400, TG1214 1355 1520, PPG 276 1350 1510
 
tasks in Bangkok area
pit stop

Nov. 18 leg 10 fly probably form Bangkok to to Guilin
 Shenzen Air 9669 BKK CAN 2110 2225. The viable CAN KWL flights are TG668 0950 1330 and MS958 1310 1655. 
tasks in Guilin area
extended pit stop

Nov. 20 leg 11 Guilin to Beijing flight choices:
CZ3281 0900 1125
CA6312 1145 1435
CZ3287 1710 1950
CA1226 2105 0015

then tasks in Beijing and start regular pitstop

Nov. 21 leg 12 return from Beijing to U.S. for Finish Line in Hawaii via Tokyo
PEK NRT on Air China has several choices:
CA6651/NH956 0845 1305
CA925               0930 1350
CA167               1350 1750

Continuing on from Tokyo-Narita to Honolulu (NRT to HNL), there are 9 choices with departures between 645pm and 10pm. With the 6 hours 45 minute flying team and 5 hour time difference, these flights arrive HNL 0630 to 0950. The most logical choice to me would be UA880 NRT HNL 1925 0710+1. All these are same day due to crossing the International Date Line.

                        Finish Line on which Hawaiian island not known yet although I guess Oahu now for convenience

Note: this is a 22 day race.
 
 
 

« Last Edit: April 24, 2009, 06:49:55 PM by apskip »

Offline apskip

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Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #108 on: February 06, 2009, 01:14:42 PM »
I hope it is true,'too. A 4/7 split. I should make for some interesting conversations on the way to LAX. It would appear to me to give an edge to the teams that understand/know the Los Angeles freeway system. Three teams with Los Angeles backgrounds and one from San Diego might just be the 4 breakaways.

Great call on the LAX-Milano connections, apskip. I have not traveled in Europe since the creation of the EU. Just where would these teams clear immigration/customs? Frankfurt or Zurich?  Paris or Milano? What is the procedure over there, these days?

Dr. Rox,
Having cleared customs in the European Union recently, I believe I am qualified to speak on this. You clear customs at your entry p[oint into the European Union. In my case that meant Dusseldorf on the way to Bucharest. On arrival in Bucharest on a flight from within Europe, there was no second customs check. On the way back it was to JFK airport where customs clearance was lengthy due to multiple flights arriving almost sinultaneously mid-afternooon.

For AR14, teams would clear in Paris for any flights arriving there for connection to Milan. For those going to Zurich via Frankfurt, it would be in Frankfurt.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2009, 01:23:19 PM by apskip »

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Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #109 on: February 06, 2009, 01:40:36 PM »
Thank you for the infomation, apskip!!! Sure sounds a lot easier than when I travled over there before the EU.
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Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #110 on: February 06, 2009, 02:52:26 PM »
The Beijjing to Tokyo flight for at least some of the teams can be confirmed as CA925/NH5702 0930-1350 on 11/21.
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Offline apskip

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Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #111 on: February 07, 2009, 06:11:16 PM »
Dr. Rox,

The current baseline shown earlier in the Timeline above is a 3:41  for the 1042 to 1423 Locarno/Domodossola/Spiez/Interlaken West run.

 If you access http://www.myswissalps.com/swisstimetable.asp?lang=EN you will get the information I indicate below. When you put in Locarno to Luzern starting at 1030, the choices you get are:

Details Station/Stop  Date Time Duration Chg. Travel with
1  Locarno 08.02.09  dep 10:45    3:09  1  IR, S3   
 Luzern    arr 13:54 
  Locarno 08.02.09  dep 10:45 1 
IR 2280  InterRegio,   
 Arth-Goldau  arr 13:06 4 
  Arth-Goldau  dep 13:21 6 
S3 21350  Urban railway, line 3 
 Luzern  arr 13:54 5 
Duration: 3:09; runs daily 
 
2  Locarno 08.02.09  dep 11:03    2:38  1  S20, ICN   
 Luzern    arr 13:41 
Details - Connection 2       
Station/Stop  Date Time Platform Travel with Comments
  Locarno 08.02.09  dep 11:03 3 
S2014238  Urban railway, line 20 
 Bellinzona  arr 11:27 1 
  Bellinzona  dep 11:36 1 
ICN 666  InterCity tilting t,   BZ RZ 
 Luzern  arr 13:41 7 
Duration: 2:38; runs daily 
 
3  Locarno 08.02.09  dep 11:45    2:56  0  IR   
 Luzern    arr 14:41 
Details - Connection 3       
Station/Stop  Date Time Platform Travel with Comments
 
4  Locarno 08.02.09  dep 12:03    2:38  2  S20, CIS, IR
Details - Connection 4       
Station/Stop  Date Time Platform Travel with Comments
  Locarno 08.02.09  dep 12:03 3 
S2014242  Urban railway, line 20 
 Bellinzona  arr 12:27 1 
  Bellinzona  dep 12:36 1 
CIS10016  Cisalpino,     
 Arth-Goldau  arr 14:09 4 
  Arth-Goldau  dep 14:14 5 
IR 2178  InterRegio,   
 Luzern  arr 14:41 7 
Duration: 2:38; runs 8. Feb until 13. Jun 2009 daily 

Then we must connect in Luzern:
Details Station/Stop  Date Time Duration Chg. Travel with
1  Luzern 08.02.09  dep 13:55    2:09  1  IR, IC   
 Interlaken West    arr 16:04 
 
2  Luzern 08.02.09  dep 13:55    2:21  1  IR, BUS   
 Interlaken West, Bahnhof    arr 16:13 
 
3  Luzern 08.02.09  dep 13:57    2:26  2  RE, IC, R   
 Interlaken West    arr 16:23 
 
4 Luzern 08.02.09  dep 14:55 12 
IR 2228  InterRegio,     
 Interlaken Ost  arr 16:55 4 
  Interlaken Ost  dep 17:01 5 
IC 986  InterCity,    BZ RZ 
 Interlaken West  arr 17:04 1 
Duration: 2:09; runs daily 
 
When you combine the two, you get :
Lorano 1045 Luzern 1354 5 hours 9 minutes
Locarono 1103 Luzern 1354 4 hours 51 minutes
Locarno 1145 Luzern 1704 7 hours 19 minutes
Locarno  1203 Luzern 1704 7 hours 1 minute

I believe that you are using non-Sunday timetables, which is not permissible when the date in question is Sunday Nov. 2. If you use Sundays, you will duplicate my results. The only possible conclusion is that the St. Gotthard route via connection in Luzern is NOT competitive by 1 hour 24 minutes longer or more.

EDITOR's NOTE - I discovered I had made an assumption about all such trains going through Bellinzona, but that it not correct. So I redid the entire analysis.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2009, 09:55:33 PM by apskip »

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Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #112 on: February 07, 2009, 07:31:08 PM »
If one was going to use the Gotthard Tunnel on trip from Locarno to Interlaken, I would think they would go Locarno to Bellinzona to Luzern to Interlaken Ost. That routing is 4:51 minutes, an hour longer than the Domodossola/Simplon. Which route a team would take, to me, would depend on when they arrived at the Locarno station. Trains run to Bellinzona about every 30 minutes. Trains run to Domodossola about every 1.5 hours. So if a team just missed the Domodossola/Simplon train, they MIGHT get there sooner using the Bellinzona/Gotthard route and beat a team by 30 minutes that waited the 1.5 hour for the Domodossola/Simplon train.

It just depends on when they get finished bungee jumping and get to the Locarno station. How many times in the past have we seen teams try to shave 10 minutes on a 5,000 mile plane ride? Why wouldnt they try to shave 15-30 minutes on a train ride???

I am not saying it is probably, but I am saying it is possible.

Here are two examples.
1)If a team arrived at the Locarno station at 9 am.
   If they took the next Domodossola/Simplon route, they would arrive in Interlaken at 14:28.

  Station/Stop  Date Time Platform Travel with Comments
  Locarno 15.02.09       
walk  4 min., Y 
 Locarno FART       
  Locarno FART  dep 10:42 FART 
D 40  Fast train,     
 Domodossola  arr 12:30 
  Domodossola  dep 12:48 
CIS 52  Cisalpino,   RE 
 Spiez  arr 13:53 4 
  Spiez  dep 14:05 2 
R 5724  Regio 
 Interlaken Ost  arr 14:28
Duration: 3:50; runs daily 
 
 If they took the next Bellinzona/Gotthard route, they would arrive in Interlaken at 13:55.

Station/Stop  Date Time Platform Travel with Comments
  Locarno 15.02.09  dep 09:03 3 
S2014230  Urban railway, line 20 
 Bellinzona  arr 09:27 1 
  Bellinzona  dep 09:36 1 
ICN 662  InterCity tilting t,   BZ RZ 
 Luzern  arr 11:41 7 
  Luzern  dep 11:55 12 
IR 2222  InterRegio 
 Interlaken Ost  arr 13:55
Duration: 4:52; runs daily 

2)If they arrived at Locarno station at 10:48, one minute after the 10:47 left. I used your 10:47 time for departure, but my shedule says 10:42.

   If they took the next Domodossola/Simplon route, they would arrive in Interlaken at 15:57.

Details - Connection 4       
Station/Stop  Date Time Platform Travel with Comments
  Locarno 15.02.09       
walk  4 min., Y 
 Locarno FART       
  Locarno FART  dep 12:13 FART 
D 50  Fast train,     
 Domodossola  arr 13:56 
  Domodossola  dep 14:10 
CIS 122  Cisalpino CISALPINO MONTE ROSA,   RE 
 Brig  arr 14:40 1 
  Brig  dep 14:49 3 
IC 831  InterCity,     BZ RZ 
 Spiez  arr 15:24 4 
  Spiez  dep 15:33 1 
ICE 375  InterCityExpress,   RE 
 Interlaken Ost  arr 15:57
Duration: 3:48; runs daily 
 
If they took the next Bellinzona/Gotthard route, they would arrive in Interlaken at 15:55.

  Station/Stop  Date Time Platform Travel with Comments
  Locarno 15.02.09  dep 11:03 3 
S2014238  Urban railway, line 20 
 Bellinzona  arr 11:27 1 
  Bellinzona  dep 11:36 1 
ICN 666  InterCity tilting t,   BZ RZ 
 Luzern  arr 13:41 7 
  Luzern  dep 13:55 12 
IR 2226  InterRegio 
 Interlaken Ost  arr 15:55
Duration: 4:52; runs daily

I don't think I have ever said that EVERY connection through the Gotthard Rail Tunnel was faster. They are not, but some are. And that makes them a possibility.

« Last Edit: February 08, 2009, 02:03:13 AM by DrRox »
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Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #113 on: February 13, 2009, 03:57:02 AM »
Much thanks to walkingpneumonia for finding Chiasso! And everything changes after finding out Preston/Jennifer miss their train!

The first shot of Jennifer looking at the train shows them on Platform 7. The train coming in would be IR172, a direct from Milan to Bellinzona. If the couple get on this (I don't know if the IR172 is considered a TiLo train!), they'd be taking:
IR172 from Chiasso to Bellinzona, 1700-1750
IR2177 from Bellinzona to Locarno, 1754-1813

Why are they in Chiasso in the first place? Could they have been trying to make this impossible connection?
R10860 from Milan to Chiasso, 1538-1643
S20 from Chiasso to Giubiasco, 1633-1726
Giubiasso to Locarno, 1734-1757

The sane connections don't pass through Chiasso in the first place. So the big question is, what train did they miss?



Since Preston/Jennifer caught (or barely missed) IR172, which leaves Milan Central at 4.10pm, their flight would have landed before 3pm. There's a possibility that they could have gone Los Angeles > Frankfurt > Milan, sharing the Los Angeles > Frankfurt flight with the other seven teams, but that would confuse the hell out of the racers and the audience. Other than that, teams can only connect through Paris, of which Apskip has provided an example.

TN22 from Los Angeles to Paris: 1145-0845, then
AF1214 from Paris to Milan Malpensa: 0945-1145 or
XM5997 from Paris to Milan Linate: 0935-1110

But that'd probably put the racers in Milan way too early. May I propose:
AF75 from Los Angeles to Paris: 1500-1030, then
AF9806 from Paris to Milan Malpensa: 1125-1305 or
AF1714 from Paris to Milan Malpensa: 1320-1450

This keeps racers on the same airline (and a major flag carrier, as opposed to Tahiti Nui), which would make buying tickets easier, cheaper and explaining to the audience simpler. Remember TPTB buys the tickets for the first leg!

Or if mayhem is what TPTB wants:
LH457 from Los Angeles to Frankfurt: 1435-1025 (flight also connecting to Zurich)
LH3886 from Frankfurt to Milan Malpensa: 1215-1325



The Zurich teams are landing at 12.55pm, 2.00pm if they take a later connection. If they make it to Zurich Central by 2.09pm they could arrive in Locarno by 4.57pm. Depart Zurich 3.09pm, and arrive Locarno 5.57pm. Miss that and it's depart Zurich 4.09pm, arrive Locarno 6.57pm.

Now if Preston/Jennifer miss their train and still arrive in Locarno at 6.13pm, everything is up for grabs!

Hmm, interesting! It doesn't matter whether you come in through Milan or Zurich, it depends on how long you take to get out of the airport. If you hustle you'd make it ahead, delay and you're pretty much dead!
« Last Edit: February 13, 2009, 01:23:58 PM by Neobie »
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Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #114 on: February 13, 2009, 05:06:33 PM »
TN22 from Los Angeles to Paris: 1145-0845, then
AF1214 from Paris to Milan Malpensa: 0945-1145 or
XM5997 from Paris to Milan Linate: 0935-1110

I just loved this connection from apskip. I thought it might make for a 4/7 split and let 7 teams fight it out for last place. Seems that TAR always does the opposite and splits them 7/4 and leave 4 teams as Tail End Charlies. One thing that bothered me about this flight posibility, was the short connection time. I haven't ever been to CDG. Could a team land on TN22 in Termainal 2A/2B, clear customs and make a connecting flight in Terminal 2F in that amount of time? 60 minutes for AF1214 and 50 minutes for XM5997.

Since we have seen Preston/Jennifer in Italy at almost 5 pm, this flight connections seem much more likely as Neobie has found for us.

AF75 from Los Angeles to Paris: 1500-1030 (arrives in Terminal 2E), then
AF9806 from Paris to Milan Malpensa: 1125-1305 (actually a codeshare with Alitalia operating, leaving Terminal 2F) or
AF1714 from Paris to Milan Malpensa: 1320-1450 (leaves from Terminal 2F)

Again almost the same problem. Could a team land on AF75 at Terminal 2E, clear customs and make a departing flight in Terminal 2F in 55 minutes for the AF9806 flight to Milano. I dont see the codeshare being a problem, just the time frame.

AF1714 seems like the best fit for me, though a 2h 50 min layover might be a little long.  At least they should be able to make it. Seats in the back might just make a team miss the train out of the airport and put them on next best train connection to Locarno.

Anyone fly in/out of CDG and maybe comment on the connection times there?


« Last Edit: February 13, 2009, 05:22:24 PM by DrRox »
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Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #115 on: February 13, 2009, 06:24:12 PM »
In 2003, I flew LAX to Málaga with the connection at CDG.  We did the customs stuff in Málaga.  The connection at CDG was the usual 60 minute kind.
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Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #116 on: February 13, 2009, 06:49:08 PM »
Not recently, but when I transferred at CDG years ago I had a "normal experience". However, let's consult the "oracle" on such matters, the official inter-alrines connect times for CDG

Connecting time
• When booking your ticket, mind a minimum connecting time (security measures + transfer between the terminals).
60 minutes intra Terminals 1/2/3
75 minutes between Terminals 1 and 2
75 minutes between Terminals 1/2 and Terminal 3

Note that most boarding gates close 10 minutes prior to departure.
Pre-boarding security screening will require additional 10-15 minutes especially during peak hours.

So the answer is that we cannot tell which terminals were used to arrive and depart, so we cannot tell whether it was an inside one terminal transfer which is within the 60 minute standard.

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Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #117 on: February 13, 2009, 07:43:38 PM »
The CBS super-spoiler map (boo!) has given us two legs in Beijing, so may I propose this schedule for the last third of the race:

Flight specifics are left out unless they differ from Apskip's timetable upthread! This timeline only serves to fill in the missing dates (or correct one or two dates) in Apskip's full version, and mostly help us figure out whether teams take air or land transport. (Remember, less airports!)

15 Nov Sat
Flight from Bangkok to Phuket, 7.30am to 8.50am
Phuket Zoo opens at 8.30am before racers arrive
Other tasks in Phuket
Sightings in Suan Luam at 3-4pm
Pit Stop 7 (Phuket) from early evening to next morning

16 Nov Sun
Bus or plane from Phuket to Bangkok
If by plane, teams can arrive by 8.50am
If by bus, teams can only arrive after 6.30pm
Tasks in Bangkok
Pit Stop 8 (Bangkok) times vary accordingly (see below)

17 Nov Mon
Flight from Bangkok to Guilin, best flights are:
TG662 (0110-0625) / MU5379 (0940-1210) through Shanghai
FD3600 (0700-1030) / NX192 (1245-1410) through Macau
TG668 (0950-1330) / CZ3236 (1540-1640) through Guangzhou
TG664 (1035-1550) / MU5381 (1815-2045) through Shanghai
EK384 (1320-1710) / CZ3032 (1935-2050) through Hong Kong
ET606 (1430-1830) / CZ3303 (2030-2130) through Guangzhou

Munoz brothers are still stuck in Guangzhou at night, suggesting they miss the first five options and depart from the Pit Stop earliest late in the morning. Assuming no strange Pit Stop extensions, that suggests teams finish the Bangkok leg in the evening, adding weight to the possibility of a bus ride from Phuket.

Tasks in Guilin until late at night
Pit Stop 9 (Guilin), with arrivals lasting until 3am

18 Nov Tue
Extra day, choose any of the following delay tactics:
A) Extended Pit Stop in Guilin, departures early afternoon 19th
B) Hours of Operation in Beijing in the late afternoon
C) Sadistic producers send teams on a full day's train ride to Beijing:
K158 (0206-0610), T6 (1418-1209), T190 (1607-1455), K22 (1920-2157)

19 Nov Tue
Train or plane from Guilin to Beijing
Tasks in Beijing
Pit Stop 10 (Beijing)

20 Nov Thr
Tasks in Beijing
Pit Stop 11 (Beijing), with two teams checking in before 9.30pm, most likely way earlier
Regular Pit Stop, since Phil doesn't get a headstart to Hawaii

21 Nov Fri
Flight from Beijing to Tokyo, with one confirmed flight going 9.30am to 1.50pm
Flight from Tokyo to Honolulu, early evening

21 Nov Fri, again
Arrival in Honolulu in early morning
Possible charter flight delay to give Phil headstart
Race finishes (Maui) in afternoon
« Last Edit: February 13, 2009, 08:14:00 PM by Neobie »
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Offline apskip

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Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #118 on: February 13, 2009, 08:44:03 PM »
Neobie, very interesting. How do you know the race finishes in Maui?

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Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #119 on: February 13, 2009, 08:51:09 PM »
I have investigated further and discovered this:

Tahiti Nui and Air France are both in Terminal 2A

Lufthansa to Lufthansa is only in Terminal 1

if to Linate, then Tahiti Nui in Terminal 2A and Alitalia in terminal 2C


All of these should cause a connection booking standard of 60 minutes. However, they do not guarantee the flights landing in time for that connection.

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Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #120 on: February 13, 2009, 08:54:27 PM »


Neobie, very interesting. How do you know the race finishes in Maui?

Because CBS has done it again!  :groan: 

Of course, they heard MOST of it here first, :lol3:

http://forum.realityfanforum.com/index.php/topic,17805.msg375693.html#msg375693

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Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #121 on: February 13, 2009, 09:00:24 PM »
I have spent a lot of time transiting CDG. That airport is one of my least favorites and can frequently be hell. Lines are a nightmare, security can be overwhelmed, gate are swarming with far more people than there is space. Many gates require taking an overworked bus/shuttle from the terminal to the plane. Delays are common.

I would easily want twice as much time as is stated.
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Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #122 on: February 13, 2009, 09:17:27 PM »
Mayber someone else has pointed this out (if so I missed it) but Jaipur, seen in the Amazing Race 1 episode 8 (the DETOUR Elephant or Rowaboat) is a pit stop for AR14. I will have flights shortly.

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Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #123 on: February 13, 2009, 09:19:18 PM »
Well if Preston/Jennifer made the quick connections, why are they still in Italy at 5 pm......thats the clincher to me.
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Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #124 on: February 13, 2009, 09:58:08 PM »
While waiting for Apskip to help us with the flights...

Investigating the Jaipur Pit Stop

Quick recap:
Phil left Delhi in the late evening of Thr 13 Nov, and arrives in Phuket on the morning of Fri 14 Nov.
Teams left Bangkok for Phuket on the morning of Sat 15 Nov.

The last team to check in at Jaipur arrives after 6.00am, Thr 13 Nov.
9W373 (0900-0945) flies from Jaipur to Delhi, and TG324 (1155-1725) from Delhi to Bangkok. This combination could get Phil into Phuket in the evening of Thr 13 Nov, but Phil arrives too late at the airport to catch it.
The last team to check in at Jaipur arrives before 8.30pm, Thr 13 Nov.
The latest Phil could have left Jaipur is on IT612 from Jaipur to Delhi (2130-2210), which connects to 9W64 from Delhi to Bangkok (0100-0655).

Teams check out of Jaipur after 12.30am, Fri 14 Nov.
If leaving Jaipur by plane, teams departing the next day also arrive too late at the airport to catch the 9W373/TG324 combination.
If teams leave for Delhi by bus, they'd have to catch the last bus at 12.30am for hopes of catching TG324.
If teams leave for Delhi by train, they'd have to leave Jaipur by 5.30am.
Teams check out of Jaipur before 8.30pm, Fri 14 Nov.
Teams need to arrive in Bangkok before 7.30am for the flight to Phuket. The latest they can leave Jaipur (same as Phil for the previous day) is at 9.30pm.

A 36-hour Pit Stop means teams checked in in the range of 6am to 8.30am, which doesn't sound very plausible. Assuming a 12-hour Pit Stop, teams checked in between 12.30pm and 8.30pm on Thr 13 Nov.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2009, 08:45:39 AM by Neobie »
Found out that Neobie in Chinese means "f*king awesome"! No, really. Look it up!


 

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