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Offline apskip

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Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #50 on: December 03, 2008, 10:15:04 AM »
There have been questions raised by the FutonCritic (usually an accurate source) citing a 11 episode AR14 vs. the 12 episodes that I have been showing. It is now apparent that it was the Futon Critic who was wrong. AR14 is a 12 episode race.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2009, 01:33:01 PM by apskip »


Offline Neobie

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Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #51 on: December 28, 2008, 10:43:12 PM »
Have looked at various flights from Phuket to Guilin, but you guys could probably turn up more! With teams still racing at 4pm on the 15th of November, I don't think they can make the 2am flight through Incheon. These are using Sunday schedules, corresponding to the 16th of November:

Phuket to Hong Kong
UO6718   1135-1525 (2h layover criteria)
UO704   1205-1555 (1h layover criteria)
Hong Kong to Guilin
KA700   1727-1735

Phuket to Bangkok
FD3022   1250-1405 (2h layover criteria)
PG276   1350-1510 (1h layover criteria)
Bangkok to Guilin
PG821   1613-1949

Phuket to Hong Kong
KA213   1255-1707
Hong Kong to Guilin
CZ3032   1922-2050
« Last Edit: December 28, 2008, 11:01:52 PM by Neobie »
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Offline apskip

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Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #52 on: December 31, 2008, 02:03:48 PM »
AR14 Timeline(revised 11/26):

Oct. 31 leg 1 depart U.S. for Locarno, Switzerland via Frankfurt and Zurich or via Milan:
The only applicable flight in the right time frame from the U.S. is UA990 SFO FRA 1348 0830

A different route goes LAX to Milan-Malpensa(MXP) as follows: TN022 1145 0845+1 connecting with AF1214 0945+1 1145+1

Here are the bus schedules in the same time frame:
Shuttle bus leaves airport  Arrival in Bellinzona at  Connecting train leaves  Arrival in Locarno 
12:30                                           14:20                              14:39                        14:58 
14:30                                           16:20                              16:39                        16:58 

From LAX to Milan-Linate a similar schedule applies:
TN (Air Tahiti Nui) 022  LAX CDG  1145 0845+1, conecting with  XM5997  CDG LIN 0935+1 1110+1

From LAX to Zurich via Frankfurt we have the interesting combination:
LH457  LAX FRA  1435 1025+1 connecting with LH3726   FRA ZRH  1200 1255

What I find most interesting is the fit LH457/LH3726 has with the observer comments about seeing 7 teams in Frankfurt Airport the morning of Saturday Nov. 1. I expect no other reason to go to Frankfurt except to connect to Zurich. There are 10 nonstop flights on Saturday between Frankfurt and Zurich, so if any are delayed there are alternatives.

The train schedule from Zurich to Bellinzona to Locarno indicates that 3 1/4 hours is required. Here is is:

Train leaves airport Change in  Connecting train leaves  Arrival in Locarno 
11:47  Zurich HB (main station)             12:09     
                                Arth-Goldau           12:52     
                                 Bellinzona             14:40                         15:06 
12:47  Zurich HB (main station)             13:09     
                                 Bellinzona             15:40                         16:06 
13:47  Zurich HB (main station)             14:09     
                              Arth-Goldau             14:52     
                                 Bellinzona             16:40                         17:07 
16:47   Zurich HB(main station)             17:09
                              Bellinzona                19:40                         19:06


It is my belief that AR14 teams used a minimum of 2 flight combinations to get to Locarno. One may be to Milan, another to Zurich directly, and a third to Zurich via Frankfurt.

Nov. 1 arrive mid-morning in Europe and reach Locarno sometime in the afternoon; then tasks; this might be a TBC to allow known timing of next leg, but probably isn't
Nov. 2 leg 2 Locarno to Domodossola to Spiez to Interlaken by train; then tasks in Interlaken
dep. Locarno 1047 arr. Domodossola 1235
dep. Domodossola 1248 arr. Spiez 1353
dep. Spiez 1425 arr. Interlaken West 1454 or dep. Spiez 1432 arr. Interlaken West 1451
total trip is 4 hours train

Nov. 3 leg 3 Interlaken probably by rail to Zurich, then plane to Salzburg; arrival possibilities mid-morning, mid-afternoon, and late evening
From Interlaken to Salzburg, the early morning Tuesday(as in Nov.4) train schedules are:

dep. Interlaken West 0605 transfer trains in Spiez, Romanschorn, 7 min. walk to ship, ship to Frederichshafen ship terminal, 5 min. walk to Hafen station, 2 min. train to Frederichshafen station, Ulm, then arr. Salzburg 1454 after a 8 hour 53 minute trip OR
dep. Interlaken West 0731 transfer trains in Spiez, Bern, Zurich arr. Salzburg 1529 after a 8 hour 0 minute trip

Based on the above, it seems more likely that teams flew to Salzburg on Nov. 4. In order to do that the optimal route is to take a train from Interlaken to Bern(somtimes changing first in Spiez) and then change for Bern to Zurich. The trains that fit are:

First train is dep. Interlaken West 522 transfer at Bern, arr. Zurich HB 0728, transfer there to Zurich Airport dep. HB 0746 arr. Airport 0747,  a difficult 23 minute connection to make the first flight below from Zurich airport
Next is dep. Interlaken West 1031 transfer at Bern, arr. Zurich HB 1228 dep.HB 1237 arr. Airport 1246 .
Last is dep. Interlaken West 1729 transfer at Spiez and Bern, arr. Zurich HB 1928, dep. HB 1937 arr. Airport 1946.

At Zurich there are  several nonstop flights to Salzburg, each with a connection from one of the train trips above:

C91202/LX4290  0810 0915  ZRH SGZ
C91204/Lx4292  1335 1440  ZRH SGZ
C91208/LX4294  2040 2145  ZRH SGZ

Nov. 4 tasks in Salzburg
Nov. 5 leg 4 depart Salzburg for Bucharest, with several late-night flight options:
through Munich drive back form Salzburg early evening, then LH3424 2130 0025 MUC OTP
through Frankfurt OS269 1830 1950 SGZ FRA connecting to LH3416 2030 0005 FRA OTP
Nov. 6 arrival in Bucharest after midnight; transfer to train to get to Brasov
morning train departures: Bucharest Nord 2358 arr. Brasov 0246  or  dep. 0630 0922  or  dep. 0730 1019  or  dep. 0616 1051(note: nobody would want this) or  0830 1124  or  0942 1254  or  1130 1404
Nov. 7 tasks in Brasov
Nov. 8 leg 5 leave Transylvania for unknown location #1(could be in Siberia)
Nov. 10 leg 6 unknown location #2(could be in Siberia)
Nov. 12 leg 7 unknown location #3
Nov. 14 leg 8 leave unknown location #3 to arrive Bangkok the next morning
Nov. 15 fly Bangkok to Phuket apparently on TG203 0740 0850, then tasks in Phuket area
Nov. 16 leg 9 fly from Phuket to ?
Nov. 18 leg 10 fly from ? to Guilin
Nov. 20 leg 11 Guilin to Beijing flight choices:
CZ3281 0900 1125
CA6312 1145 1435
CZ3287 1710 1950
CA1226 2105 0015

then tasks in Beijing and start pitstop

Nov. 22 leg 12 return from Beijing to U.S. for Finish Line in Hawaii via Tokyo
PEK NRT on Air China has several choices:
CA6651/NH956 0845 1305
CA925               0930 1350
CA167               1350 1750

Continuing on from Tokyo-Narita to Honolulu (NRT to HNL), there are 9 choices with departures between 645pm and 10pm. With the 6 hours 45 minute flying team and 5 hour time difference, these flights arrive HNL 0630 to 0950. The most logical choice to me would be UA880 NRT HNL 1925 0710+1. All these are same day due to crossing the International Date Line.

                        Finish Line on which Hawaiian island not known yet although I guess Oahu now for convenience

Note: this is a 23 day race.

Offline Neobie

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Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #53 on: January 13, 2009, 10:24:31 PM »
Alright, so now we have to work with teams in the middle of a Phuket leg afternoon 15 Nov; running a Bangkok leg 16 Nov, and checking into the Guilin Pit Stop late night 17 Nov...

We know that the teams flew into Phuket from Bangkok (Dhall's blog), and with "less airports", could teams have taken a bus back into Bangkok? (It's a bloody 12-hour ride, but the buses are pretty comfortable...)

15 Nov, afternoon: Run Phuket leg
15 Nov, early evening: Check in at Phuket Pit Stop

16 Nov, morning: Check out at Phuket Pit Stop
16 Nov, daytime: Travel by bus/plane to Bangkok
16 Nov, afternoon or early evening: Run Bangkok leg, check in at Bangkok Pit Stop

17 Nov, morning: Check out at Bangkok Pit Stop
17 Nov, most of the day: Travel by plane to Guilin
17 Nov, night: Run Guilin leg
17 Nov, late late night: Check in at Guilin Pit Stop

Same thing can pretty much be accomplished with a flight from Phuket to Bangkok, which gives teams more time to spend in Bangkok for the leg.

For flights from Bangkok to Guilin:
If leaving in the early morning, teams can connect through Guangzhou via TG668 (0950-1330) / CZ3236 (1540-1640).
Next best option, connecting through Hong Kong, TG628 (1030-1420) / UO121 (1645-1810).
Also through Hong Kong, CX750 (1155-1535) / KA700 (1725-1850).
If leaving in the afternoon, the best bet is a direct PG821 to Guilin (1605-1950).

In any case, teams will only be arriving in Guilin at around dusk, giving the late night Guilin check-ins some credibility. But what of our guys in Guangzhou airport?

Close shave with the Bangkok airport! It closed on Nov 25, just one week after our teams left! Or... is it the TAR curse?

ETA: The Phuket-Bangkok bus schedule, correct as of Nov 25.

« Last Edit: January 15, 2009, 12:21:35 AM by Neobie »
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Offline Neobie

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Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #54 on: January 24, 2009, 10:08:07 PM »
May I use Apskip's data to propose that Thailand does not come immediately after Krasnojarsk?

Phil was waiting for a flight on the night of Thursday 13 Nov from Delhi to Bangkok. That puts him on one of these two flights:
TG316, Fridays 0005-0535
9W64, Fridays 0100-0655

Note: Since Krasnojarsk serves only other Siberian cities, along with Moscow, St Petersburg and Beijing, I'll assume for now Phil gets out of Krasnojarsk through Moscow. The flight to Beijing doesn't fly this time of the week. Further investigation through other cities, especially St Petersburg, is warranted. Full list of destinations: Moscow, St Petersburg, Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky, Novosibirsk, Yakutsk, Beijing.

The only direct flight between Moscow and Delhi is SU535 1850-0350 on Tuesday night. That means Phil would arrive in Delhi early morning on Wednesday, and leave two days later early morning Friday? Thai Airways and Aeroflot can get Phil from Moscow to Bangkok for two days less of transit.

TG975, Wednesdays 1820-0705
SU553, Wednesdays 1940-0905

Of course, I'm assuming (once again!) that Phil flew direct from Moscow to Delhi. Connections may have been made, but what a journey from Krasnojarsk-Moscow-Connecting City-Delhi-Bangkok-Phuket! (Gutsy Grannies will be proud!) Will try to cover this hole though, but that's for another day.

What do you guys think? And what leg between Krasnojarsk and Phuket would require Phil to go through Delhi?
« Last Edit: January 24, 2009, 10:12:50 PM by Neobie »
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Offline georgiapeach

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Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #55 on: January 24, 2009, 10:15:22 PM »
Great summary, but I'm concerned about relying on the direct flight part, though?

How about a second Siberian city? ???

Or else is Phil just a day ahead of the racers...
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Offline apskip

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Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #56 on: January 25, 2009, 06:12:08 PM »
Of course Phil should be able to leave Siberia a day ahead of the racers. An extended pit stop is all that's needed to get him there.

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Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #57 on: January 25, 2009, 06:28:29 PM »
Or Phil could have left and the rest got caught by the blizzard........
Matthew 7:15

Offline apskip

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Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #58 on: January 26, 2009, 01:29:54 PM »
AR14 Timeline(revised 1/26 exactly 2 months after the prio version):

1.First there is a comment on what happens between Phuket and Guilin. The most obvious possibility is a leg in Bangkok, but if WRP has a "Been there, done that" attitude like me, I want to see somewhere else in southeast Asia next.
2. We haven't a clue on where in India AR14 is going except that air connections through Delhi on to Bangkok and Phuket are probable. We know that you can easily get to Phuket via Singapore alao.


Oct. 31 leg 1 depart U.S. for Locarno, Switzerland via Frankfurt and Zurich or via Milan:
LAX to Milan-Malpensa(MXP) as follows: TN022 1145 0845+1 connecting with AF1214 0945+1 1145+1

Here are the bus schedules in the same time frame:
Shuttle bus leaves airport  Arrival in Bellinzona at  Connecting train leaves  Arrival in Locarno 
12:30                                           14:20                              14:39                        14:58 
14:30                                           16:20                              16:39                        16:58 

From LAX to Milan-Linate a similar schedule applies:
TN (Air Tahiti Nui) 022  LAX CDG  1145 0845+1, conecting with  XM5997  CDG LIN 0935+1 1110+1

From LAX to Zurich via Frankfurt we have the interesting combination:
LH457  LAX FRA  1435 1025+1 connecting with LH3726   FRA ZRH  1200 1255

Note: some of those above are too early to get if the taditional Amazing Race start timing holds.

What I find most interesting is the fit LH457/LH3726 has with the observer comments about seeing 7 teams in Frankfurt Airport the morning of Saturday Nov. 1. I expect no other reason to go to Frankfurt except to connect to Zurich. There are 10 nonstop flights on Saturday between Frankfurt and Zurich, so if any are delayed there are alternatives.

The train schedule from Zurich to Bellinzona to Locarno indicates that 3 1/4 hours is required. Here is is:

Train leaves airport Change in  Connecting train leaves  Arrival in Locarno 
11:47  Zurich HB (main station)             12:09     
                                Arth-Goldau           12:52     
                                 Bellinzona             14:40                         15:06 
12:47  Zurich HB (main station)             13:09     
                                 Bellinzona             15:40                         16:06 
13:47  Zurich HB (main station)             14:09     
                              Arth-Goldau             14:52     
                                 Bellinzona             16:40                         17:07 
16:47   Zurich HB(main station)             17:09
                              Bellinzona                19:40                         19:06


It is my belief that AR14 teams used a minimum of 2 flight combinations to get to Locarno. One may be to Milan, another to Zurich directly, and a third to Zurich via Frankfurt.

Nov. 1 arrive mid-morning in Europe and reach Locarno sometime in the afternoon; then tasks; this might be a TBC to allow known timing of next leg, but probably isn't in which case we have a pit stop

Nov. 2 leg 2 Locarno to Domodossola to Spiez to Interlaken by train; then tasks in Interlaken
dep. Locarno 1047 arr. Domodossola 1235
dep. Domodossola 1248 arr. Spiez 1353
dep. Spiez 1425 arr. Interlaken West 1454 or dep. Spiez 1432 arr. Interlaken West 1451
total trip is 4 hours train

Nov. 3 leg 3 Interlaken probably by rail to Zurich, then plane to Salzburg; arrival possibilities mid-morning, mid-afternoon, and late evening
From Interlaken to Salzburg, the early morning Tuesday(as in Nov.4) train schedules are:

dep. Interlaken West 0605 transfer trains in Spiez, Romanschorn, 7 min. walk to ship, ship to Frederichshafen ship terminal, 5 min. walk to Hafen station, 2 min. train to Frederichshafen station, Ulm, then arr. Salzburg 1454 after a 8 hour 53 minute trip OR
dep. Interlaken West 0731 transfer trains in Spiez, Bern, Zurich arr. Salzburg 1529 after a 8 hour 0 minute trip

Based on the above, it seems more likely that teams flew to Salzburg on Nov. 4. In order to do that the optimal route is to take a train from Interlaken to Bern(somtimes changing first in Spiez) and then change for Bern to Zurich. The trains that fit are:

First train is dep. Interlaken West 522 transfer at Bern, arr. Zurich HB 0728, transfer there to Zurich Airport dep. HB 0746 arr. Airport 0747,  a difficult 23 minute connection to make the first flight below from Zurich airport
Next is dep. Interlaken West 1031 transfer at Bern, arr. Zurich HB 1228 dep.HB 1237 arr. Airport 1246 .
Last is dep. Interlaken West 1729 transfer at Spiez and Bern, arr. Zurich HB 1928, dep. HB 1937 arr. Airport 1946.

At Zurich there are  several nonstop flights to Salzburg, each with a connection from one of the train trips above:

C91202/LX4290  0810 0915  ZRH SGZ
C91204/Lx4292  1335 1440  ZRH SGZ
C91208/LX4294  2040 2145  ZRH SGZ

Nov. 4 tasks in Salzburg

Nov. 5 leg 4 depart Salzburg for Bucharest, with several late-night flight options:
through Munich drive back form Salzburg early evening, then LH3424 2130 0025 MUC OTP
through Frankfurt OS269 1830 1950 SGZ FRA connecting to LH3416 2030 0005 FRA OTP

Nov. 6 arrival in Bucharest after midnight; transfer to train to get to Brasov
morning train departures: Bucharest Nord 2358 arr. Brasov 0246  or  dep. 0630 0922  or  dep. 0730 1019  or  dep. 0616 1051(note: nobody would want this) or  0830 1124  or  0942 1254  or  1130 1404


Nov. 7 tasks in Brasov, followed by pit stop

Nov. 8 leg 5 leave Transylvania for Krasnojarsk
RO341 Bucharest (OTP)  -  Vienna (VIE)0835 0920,  FV204 Vienna (VIE)  -  St Petersburg (LED) 1050 1530, FV573 St. Petersburg (LED)  -  Krasnojarsk (KJA) 1800 0240+1   OR
LO642  Bucharest (OTP)  -  Warsaw (WAW)1435 1520, LO677 Warsaw (WAW)  -  Moscow (SVO) 1600 2010, SU781 Moscow (SVO)  -  Krasnojarsk (KJA) 0045+1 0910+1   OR
TH1444 Bucharest (OTP)  -  Istanbul (IST) 1050 1215, TK1415 Istanbul (IST)  -  Moscow (SVO) 1335 1740, SU779 Moscow (SVO)  -  Krasnojarsk (KJA) 2055 0540+1

Nov. 9 do tasks and finish with TBC allowing teams to board TransSiberian Express in late afternoon
Here is the schedule from Krasnojarsk to Novosibirsk on a weekday:

Dep.Kr  Arr.No Duration
00:57  14:09  13:12   
02:01  17:27  15:26 
04:10  16:01  11:51   
05:59  20:06  14:07   
06:52  18:51  11:59   
07:18   22:52  15:34     
08:05   21:24  13:19     
10:09   23:55  13:46     
10:36   23:12  12:36     
11:16   00:58  13:42     
12:36   01:12  12:36     
13:51   02:24  12:33     
14:37   04:19  13:42     
15:27   04:33  13:06     
18:26   06:47  12:21     
23:36   12:38  13:02   

My guess is that teams would be ready to leave Krasnojarsk based on a TBC on teh 1351, 1437, or 1527 trains.

Nov. 10 leg 6 TransSiberian Express arrival in Novosibirsk;
tasks; extended pit stop(this is a guess on my part; it might come one leg later or two legs earlier)

Nov. 12 leg 7 fly Novosibirsk to India:
SU810 Novosibirsk (OVB)  -  Moscow (SVO) 0700 0815, KC872 Moscow (SVO)  -  Almaty (ALA) 0920 1645, KC907 Almaty (ALA)  -  Delhi (DEL) 1805 2115
 then connecting to unknown city in India

Nov. 13 arrival and tasks in Indian city TBD

Nov. 14 leg 8 leave Indian city TBD to arrive Bangkok the next morning

Nov. 15 fly Bangkok to Phuket apparently on TG203 0740 0850, then tasks in Phuket area

Nov. 16 leg 9 fly from Phuket to ?

Nov. 18 leg 10 fly from ? to Guilin

Nov. 20 leg 11 Guilin to Beijing flight choices:
CZ3281 0900 1125
CA6312 1145 1435
CZ3287 1710 1950
CA1226 2105 0015

then tasks in Beijing and start pitstop

Nov. 22 leg 12 return from Beijing to U.S. for Finish Line in Hawaii via Tokyo
PEK NRT on Air China has several choices:
CA6651/NH956 0845 1305
CA925               0930 1350
CA167               1350 1750

Continuing on from Tokyo-Narita to Honolulu (NRT to HNL), there are 9 choices with departures between 645pm and 10pm. With the 6 hours 45 minute flying time and 5 hour time difference, these flights arrive HNL 0630 to 0950. The most logical choice to me would be UA880 NRT HNL 1925 0710+1. All these are same day due to crossing the International Date Line.

                        Finish Line on which Hawaiian island not known yet although I guess Oahu now for convenience only

Note: this is a 23 day race.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2009, 01:43:07 PM by apskip »

Offline georgiapeach

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Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #59 on: January 26, 2009, 01:41:38 PM »
Looking good, except the press releases are now saying a 22 day race. :groan:
"Our fans are pretty good. They don't give away too much. Sometimes people love dropping spoilers, but our fans are good. They tend to do it in such a way that doesn't ruin it for fans who don't want to know."--Phil Keoghan


Offline puddin

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Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #60 on: January 26, 2009, 01:44:09 PM »
Looking good, except the press releases are now saying a 22 day race. :groan:
Well the press is wrong, lol
Oct 31 to Nov 22 = 23 days

Offline georgiapeach

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Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #61 on: January 26, 2009, 01:45:31 PM »
Thank goodness, I had used up all my fingers and toes counting! :lol3:
"Our fans are pretty good. They don't give away too much. Sometimes people love dropping spoilers, but our fans are good. They tend to do it in such a way that doesn't ruin it for fans who don't want to know."--Phil Keoghan

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Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #62 on: January 26, 2009, 02:06:58 PM »
Maybe they'll do an eleven day race when CBS really cuts the budget.
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Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #63 on: January 27, 2009, 12:35:56 AM »
Moscovia flies from Novosibirsk to Delhi - the only other city other than Moscow to fly direct from Russia to India! Would production, and teams, have made use of this?

I believe there are enough sites in Bangkok to warrant a leg there. TPTB's not very hardworking in finding new locations, it is true.
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Offline apskip

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Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #64 on: January 27, 2009, 07:55:05 AM »
Neobie,

Your information on Moskovia Airlines is interesting. It appears to be a new airline and is not on any of the flight information summariess that I follow. However, it does have a website in Cyrillic, http://www.ak3r.ru/. If we have anyone who can navigate through Cyrillic and let me know where the "Make a Reservation" part is, I would appreciate it. I could then do what I do once I get the right place to access. I have punched everything item on the home page of that website without getting anything remotely like a "Make a Reservation" part.

Neobie, I would like to know the source from you obtained this information about Moscovia.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2009, 08:48:07 AM by apskip »

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Offline apskip

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Re: The Amazing Race 14 Locations, spoiler summary on page 1
« Reply #65 on: January 27, 2009, 09:43:32 AM »
I think I am ready to discuss the factors against Serbia be part of AR14. First and foremost is the fact that teams were on late-night flights on Nov. 4 arriving in Bucharest just after midnight. That puts a limit on when teams would have to leave Belgrade, Serbia to get to Salzburg.These are the latest such flights:

BEG DUS JU360 1655 1905 connecting Dusseldorf with  DUS OTP OS212 1955 2155

BEG FRA  LH3407 1640 1855 connecting Frankfurt with FRA OTP LH3416 2050 0010

BEG MUC LH3403 1645 1825 connecting in Munich with MUC OTP LH3424 2130 0025

In all cases teams have to leave Belgrade before 5pm to make the arrival we know they get in Bucharest.

Now, working forwards from Interlaken, the earliest, but somewhat unlikely departure time is Monday Nov. 3 0522 at Interlaken West train station. The earliest they can get to Salzburg is 0915 that morning and it is highly likely that some teams get later flights. After tasks in Salzburg are completed it will be mid-afternoon or later and a pit stop will carry us up to early morning of Nov. 4.

Flights from Salzburg on Tuesday Nov. 4 are these:

OS920 0825 0935 SZG VIE connecting Vienna with JU315 1055 1220

OS263 1030 1150 SZG FRA connecting Frankfurt with LH3406 1345 1535

OS918 1145 1245  SZG VIE connecting Vienna with OS773 1325 1435

So the earliest of these arrives 4.5 hours before the necessary departure. This does not compute! It is logistically impossible for the Amazing Race to have fit Serbia in between Salzburg and Bucharest. Besides that an extra leg to make 13 would be necessary. That did not happen. I have to conclude that the author of that article spelled Siberia as Serbia.

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Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #66 on: January 27, 2009, 04:55:36 PM »
Good explanantion, apskip! :tup:
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Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #67 on: January 29, 2009, 08:01:13 PM »
Would anyone (Apskip, give it a try?) be able to figure out how the Munoz brothers end up in Guangzhou on 17 Nov while going from Bangkok to Guilin. while everyone's already checking in at the Pit Stop? I believe the Bangkok leg took place on 16 Nov, which would give us a late morning/afternoon 17 Nov departure.

I suppose the direct to Guilin might be full, but would they have missed all the Hong Kong flights as well? I'm a little stuck...

(AirAsia, China Southern, Egypt Air, Ethiopian Air, Kenya Air and Thai Airways all fly to Guangzhou, but most are on the wrong days...)
« Last Edit: January 29, 2009, 08:06:26 PM by Neobie »
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Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #68 on: January 29, 2009, 09:56:51 PM »
I'll write to the eyewitness Neobie to see if she had her dates right and will let you know if i get a reply.

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Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #69 on: January 30, 2009, 08:16:04 AM »
Neobie,

I rise to the challenge. I find like you that many of the better flight combinations are not available on Monday Nov. 17, one of 2 possible days for doing this. A nonstop Bangkok to Guilin flight is on Sundays and Wednesdays but not Mondays. The best I have for Nov. 17 to Guangzhou and then on to Guilin for the leading teams is:

KQ234(Kenya Airways)  BKK CAN  1315 1715  connecting with CZ3303 (China Southern) CAN KWL 2030 2130. That gives the Munoz brothers until about 2115 to be spotted.

The better flights are TG668  BKK CAN  0950 1330  connecting to  CZ3236  CAN KWL 1540 1640    or
EK384(Ethiopian Air)  BKK CAN 1320 1710 connecting with  CZ3032  CAN KWL 1935 2050

If teams took an extended rest stop and their departure was Tuesday Nov. 18, here is what I have:

CX754  BKK HKG 1130 1515  connecting with UO121(Hong Kong Express)  HKG KWL 1645 1810 (or several earlier flights that make the same connection)  or

MS958(EgyptAir)  BKK CAN  1310 1655  connecting with  ZH9669(Shenzen Air) CAN KWL   2110 2225 This one would give the Munoz brothers until 2200 to be spotted before boarding.


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Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #70 on: January 31, 2009, 02:29:01 AM »
Aah, so Bangkok Airways doesn't run on Mondays! That solves the problem on why the Munoz brothers took a flight that sucked so much! I think the Hong Kong connections (UO121 or KA700) work on Mondays - but wow - this means an entire Guilin leg taking place in the darkness?



Time to eliminate some cities as the India candidate. To recap:

Phil was waiting for a flight on the night of Thursday 13 Nov from Delhi to Bangkok. That puts him on one of these two flights:
TG316, Fridays 0005-0535
9W64, Fridays 0100-0655

TG314 flies from Kolkata to Bangkok, 0155-0550,
TG318 flies from Mumbai to Bangkok, 2320-0505,
TG338 flies from Chennai to Bangkok, 0015-0510, and
TG326 flies from Bangalore to Bangkok, 0030-0545.
Phil wouldn't have to fly through Delhi to get to Bangkok, so we know he didn't actually start in these four cities.

And remember - Phil's not in a race for minutes - not when all these flights land within half an hour of each other, and not when he's a full day ahead of the racers! (This points to an extended Pit Stop in India.) Production would want him to take the cheapest reasonable connection to Bangkok, not necessarily the absolutely quickest flight. So... what works?

Northern India's my best guess. The rest of India looks like flights could be cheaper from the other hub cities. Example: Connecting through Bangalore instead of Delhi from Kochi - if such a flight exists - would save Phil quite a sum of money in exchange for 10 minutes...

« Last Edit: January 31, 2009, 03:45:50 AM by Neobie »
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Offline apskip

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Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #71 on: January 31, 2009, 09:13:29 AM »
Neobie,

I applaud your efforts to narrow this down. I don't find all of them convincing due to assumptions you have made. Let us start with assuming that the flight for Phil must be on Nov. 13 just before midnight or 14 just after. I would not conclude that based on the information from the blogger, who I recall to be not specific on the exact time of sighting. I would expect that the flight could be well after midnight.

I have looked at your Cochin to Bangalore to Bangkok flight combination. There are flights that do that, but they leave just after 5pm from Cochin and arrive about 740am into Bangkok.

The assumption that World Race Productions are trying to minimize air fare for Phil is possible, but I don't consider it likely. They are likely to ticket him just like the racers, which means in Y class with total flexibility. The only huge savings are possible when you have a fixed time and lots of advance notice for a one-way ticket purchase. I would not expect that to be the way World Race Productions did it. They would have had private advance reservations for Phil but I don't expect anything more because the timing of the Amazing Race can be disrupted by pilgrimages in southern Africa and by snowstorms in Siberia.

Those things said, I think Bangalore itself is a logical place for an Amazing Race leg. It is the largest city in India that has not yet hosted an Amazing Race leg. I even have the perfect flight out, nonstop TG268 BLR BKK 0030 0545.  I show arrival in Delhi from Novosibirsk via Moscow and Almaty at 2115. Unfortunately, there are no flights from Delhi departing between about 9pm and 6am, so that is out.

Hyderabad would be my second choice. Hyderabad has no flights between 9am and 6am.

Next would be Goa, a neat place not visited yet by an Amazing Race. There are no flight between 1pm and 8am for Goa.

Next is Cochin, which we know a little about from ARA3. Cochin has one late flight, AI315 DEL BOM 2200 0015 connecting to AI690 BOM COK 0130 315 (sound familiar, ARA3 fans).

Next is Varanasi, one of the holiest cities in India. All listed flights there from Delhi are in the morning, departing form 6am to 1040am. No go.

Next is Chennai, already visited by the Amazing Race. Flights are from 6am to 820pm only.

I try Calcutta out of desperation since the Amazing Race has been there, but there are no flights from 845pm to 11am.

I try Mumbai because that too has hosted Amazing Races but as the largest city in India it should have flights. It does, AI349 0400 0615 and also the AI315 DEL BOM 2200 0015 used as the front end to Cochin.

Ahmedabad has nothing between 7pm and 6am.

Jaipur has nothing between 730pm and 545am.

In conclusion, in all of the major cities of India only Mumbai and Cochin have late-night slghts originating from Delhi and there are only one each (plus the 10pm origination flight Mumbai on the way to Cochin). This is startling to me. Indian State Railways has departures at odd times all through the night, but the willingness of Indians to fly at night must be different.


Offline georgiapeach

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Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #72 on: January 31, 2009, 10:43:42 AM »
wow guys, you are awesome!

Remember that one of our sources saw Phil flying Business Class so he doesn't come cheap, lol!

And my vote, just because I loved it so, is for Varanasi, aka Benares. This is an incredibly visual city, and one of the most overwheming culturally. It is the most holy city, Hindus believe if you die here, you no longer go through reincarnation.
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Offline Neobie

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Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #73 on: January 31, 2009, 10:17:36 PM »
I would not conclude that based on the information from the blogger, who I recall to be not specific on the exact time of sighting. I would expect that the flight could be well after midnight.

...

The assumption that World Race Productions are trying to minimize air fare for Phil is possible, but I don't consider it likely. They are likely to ticket him just like the racers, which means in Y class with total flexibility.

I think I can back up this assumption to some extent. As of last November, only Thai, Jet and Indian Air had flights from Delhi to Bangkok. I can't access the Indian Airlines website (stupid Mainland China censorship!), but neither Jet Airways nor Thai Airways had other flights to Bangkok at night. Will check Indian Airlines once I get home!

Now even if Phil were to be ticketed as the racers, cost savings can still be earned by flying a shorter distance?

Hmm, I don't think Phil would have to go from (Bangalore, Cochin, Chennai, Kolkata or Mumbai) to Delhi, and then change flights to get to Bangkok; if he could have simply hopped on the direct, saving him at least a connection and several hours... The remaining places look possible though!
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Re: AR14 Timelines, Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #74 on: February 01, 2009, 07:52:54 AM »

Remember that one of our sources saw Phil flying Business Class so he doesn't come cheap, lol!
 

I guess about by TAR3, I started thinking about the actual mechanics of how TAR was produced. Around TAR 5/6, it sort of hit me that Phil was probably leaving the pit stop right after the last team arrived. He would have to do his to be able to do all the stand ups for the detours/roadblocks and all the time he would have to wait by the pit stop mat. So to me, his flying biz class is really his hotel room. He has to lie down and get some sleep, somewhere.



Next would be Goa, a neat place not visited yet by an Amazing Race. There are no flight between 1pm and 8am for Goa.


I couldn't agree more with you apskip.....Goa is NEAT and UNIQUE......I have wanted them to go to Goa since TAR1. Maybe, one day, you and I will get our wishes for them to go to Goa and do some things. They went "through" Goa on TAR4, but I don't think they even slowed down on the way from Mumbai to Cochin.
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