Author Topic: Timetables and Flight Information  (Read 54869 times)

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Online georgiapeach

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Re: Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #150 on: June 10, 2008, 12:39:31 AM »
Oh my bad...Tuesday was the 29th...

I do remember Chateau saying something about how it worked better if they actually got in on the 28th...but you are right, I don't think we have any concrete evidence for that--but I'll leave this to you spreadsheet guys!

How dare those archeologists go traipsing off to non-Internet connected lands and not be able to be reached ! :lol:
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Offline apskip

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Re: Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #151 on: June 10, 2008, 09:38:27 AM »
Well, since we've got from the 25th to the 29th of April to play with for Leg Two, could it be possible that teams travelled on land through to Fortaleza? It's a twenty-hour bus ride (not unheard of on TAR), and flights would allow production to gain on the teams...

Or is Fortaleza simply a connection point (for production) for somewhere in the jungle? (This is presuming that the chainsaw is for the use of production to clear unforeseen obstacles, and not the use of the teams. Having a logging task in the Amazon would be sacrilegous in this age of global warming and what not!)

Politely, Neobie, there is NO WAY that AR13 teams took a 20 hour bus from Salvador to Forteleza. Why would they do that with time at a premium and the flights as short as 100 minutes? Production gains on the teams by leaving before teams are released from the pitstop. They don't need a boondoggle bus ride for the teams while they fly to get ahead. It's just basic scheduling which the WRP production crew is clearly excellent at.

On your "What do you guys think?", I think that we haven't got any clarity for Bolivia yet and it's too early to call it one way or the other.

Offline Neobie

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Re: Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #152 on: June 10, 2008, 09:43:17 AM »
Just wondering... They put in those loooong rides to drive the racers crazy!

Flo in Vietnam (80min vs 24h), Lucknow to Johdpur, South Carolina to Alabama...
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Offline Chateau d If

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Re: Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #153 on: June 10, 2008, 10:04:32 AM »
Yes, I think TAR does like to have teams take the slow route.  There are lots of valid reasons to do that.  And they do it often.
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Offline Neobie

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Re: Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #154 on: June 22, 2008, 04:33:48 AM »
Looks like Darren Bunkley could really just be connecting through Lisbon!

Darren found his way to Siem Reap after Lisbon. If he was headed there directly, here's the fastest combination I could find, which happens to include the TP156 he was on (33 hours of economy through four countries in three days! Aye-yi-yi!):

Salvador, Brazil to Lisbon, Portugal
TP156: Friday 5.45pm to Saturday 5.45am
Lisbon, Portugal to Paris, France
AF2125: Saturday 8.20am to 11.50am
Paris, France to Bangkok, Thailand
TG931: Saturday 1.45pm to Sunday 6.00am
Bangkok, Thailand to Siem Reap, Cambodia
PG903: Sunday 8.00am to 9.00am

Salvador has few other non-stop flights to Europe (most going through Sao Paulo or Rio first), and even if he left earlier, on Friday morning, to catch the LAN flight from Santiago to Auckland, by Sunday 9am he'd make it to Sydney at best.

Of course, this transit could actually make TPTB consider putting Sequesterville in Portugal, and Darren could easily complete the Lisbon-Paris-Bangkok-Siem Reap legs on a later day! (Fortaleza also has non-stop flights to Lisbon.)
« Last Edit: June 22, 2008, 08:01:56 AM by Neobie »
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Offline apskip

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Re: Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #155 on: July 03, 2008, 08:03:10 AM »
Let's start with some speculation. There is a major issue in figuring out where a previously not identified leg is. This arises because prior timelines have marked the legs up through leg 6 in Delhi. Since release from Delhi cannot be before May 7, there is not enough time left for teams to complete two full legs and fly to Moscow arriving midday May 12(which they have to do to meet the pitstop timing assumptions). So here are 3 alternatives to fix that:

1. Even though I say it is not enough time, WRP plans 3 legs between Delhi and Moscow.
2. There was a second leg in Cambodia involving a TBC, then later a pitstop.
3. There was a TBC leg in Santiago in spite of the piece of evidence that 1304 ends in Auckland.

Of these 3, I like the 2 legs in Cambodia best. Since teams apparently do not depart until the morning of May 6, they have about 48 hours to do so plus get in a TBC and later pitstop. I am changing this Timeline to reflect that.

Here is the updated Timetable:

AR13 TIMELINE

Depending on when they arrive at LAX, teams have choices of 3 flight combinations to Sao Paulo:

4/22, leg 1
LAX DFW AA2446 1250 1740 connecting in Dallas with DFW GRU AA963 1945 0750+1 (Note: first to arrive if on schedule)

LAX MIA AA252 1355 2142 connecting in Miami with MIA GRU 2330 0830+1 (Note: second to arrive if on schedule)

LAX GRU UA843 1405 1005+1 with a stop in ORD from 2005 to 2132 (Note: third and last to arrive)

4/23  teams go from GRU to SSA(Salvador) but it is unclear how many fly nonstop and how many connect through Rio de Janeiro. There are numerous 2 1/4 hour nonstops from GRU to SSA.
 

4/24  We know the elevator task in Salvador is this morning. If teams are lagging, they may have to catch:

G3 1816 GRU SSA 0410 0625  or  G31982 GRU SSA 0735 0950

4/25 leg 2,  choices of flights from Salvador to Fortaleza are:
SSA FOR  JJ8003 1130 1310
SSA FOR G31642 0645 0945
SSA FOR G31260 1100 1350
SSA GRU JJ3171 0600 0830  connecting GRU with JJ3302  0930 1245

followed by tasks in Fortzaleza

4/26 Pitstop in Fortaleza

4/27 leg 3
Teams leave FOR and arrive in Bolivia by air. Whether it is to Santa Cruz or to LaPaz is not known at this time.

4/28
Teams do tasks in Bolivia and then have a pitstop in the LaPaz area.

4/29 start of leg 4
If teams fly from Santa Cruz to Santiago choices are:
LAN967 VVI SCL 1205 1725
LAN967 VVI IQT 1205 1355  LAN365 IQT SCL 1920 2230
TA34     VVI LIM 0805 0900  TA33     LIM SCL  2100 0205+1

If teams fly from LPB to SCL choices are:
LAN 965 LPB SCL through Iquique 1245 1745

Since we know that the pitstop was in LPB, teams could have flown out of there or flown to SantaCruz to connect with the flights there.

4/30
It is highly highly likely that there is a REST DAY in the Santiago area.
What we appear to be sure of is that teams end up at Santiago Chile airport on this evening.

LAN801 2245 0355+2 SCL AKL

5/2 leg 4
Teams do tasks somewhere on the North Island of New Zealand from early morning until late evening when a pitstop starts.

5/3 and 5/4, leg 5
Teams return to Auckland International Airport and fly out in multiple bunches from noon until midnight. Choices of routes from AKL to REP (Siem Reap) are:

AKL BKK TG990 1315 2100, connecting with BKK REP PG903 0800 0900

AKL SYD 1245 1415 NZ119  or  1325 1450 QF190  or 1550 1715 EK419 (note: since it is rumored that an Emirates flight was used, EK419 is thee most likely of the 3)
these connect in Sydney to get SYD BKK with connection on one of these:
1550 2215 TG996
1635 2255 QF301
1700 2315 QF1

The AKL BNE route has several choices:
QF126 1435 1625
NZ739 1530 1720
EK433 1655 1835 this then continues on to Singapore with BNE SIN EK433 2045 0150+1 and then SIN REP 3K595 0600 0700

The BNE BKK route has TG992 2359 0559+1. this would be followed by  BKK REP PG903 0800 0900

Then BNE SIN has a flight after EK433 - SQ2246 2345 0545+1, but it is not in time to connect with 3K595 so teams doing thhis must wait for SIN REP MI616 1025 1135.
Other flights BNE SIN are SQ246 2345 0545. This would connect with 3K595.

There are no flights BKK REP until the morning of May 4. May 4 reports of PG503 0800 0900 not having any teams sighted may be inaccurate, as it is the only flight that could get teams there from Bangkok by late morning since there was no possibility of them leaving Auckland in the afternoon and reaching Bangkok before 7pm.

Another route is AKL MEL 1300 1500 NZ2725  or 1615 1815 QF134
Those connect with MEL BKK 1605 2235 TG982 or
MEL SIN 1920 0100 EK405, which requires a connection to Bangkok or waiting until MI616 SIN REP 1025 1135.
That connection on May 4 is either TG402 SIN BKK 0740 0900 or SQ970 0845 1010. Then a connection to PG905 BKK REP 1100 1220 is the next one possible.

One late team is probably on AKL SIN 2355 0645 SQ282 connecting there with SQ970 and PG905 shown above to avoid waiting for MI633.

5/4 continued
tasks and then TBC in Siem Reap area, followed by more tasks

5/5, start of leg 6
tasks in Siem Reap area, then regular pitstop

5/6 start of leg 7
Siem Reap to Bangkok airport
PG904 REP BKK 0950 1045 .

Choice of this nonstop flights from BKK to DEL:
IC854 BKK DEL 1330 1615

arrival into downtown Delhi would be around 1800.

It looks like the alternate flight connection for any lagging teams is:

PG906 1250 1400 REP BKK
TG315 1745 2045 BKK DEL

5/7
Delhi pitstop

5/7 leg 8
Delhi to ?

5/9 leg 9
? to ?

5/10 tasks; extended 36 hour pitstop

5/11 continue leg 9 pitstop

5/12 leg 10, flight from TBD to Moscow arriving probably midday, followed by Moscow tasks

5/13 Moscow tasks, then afternoon start of pitstop

5/14 leg 11, the FINISH LINE in The Rose City, Portland Oregon
0705 0825 LH3189  DME FRA
0945 1120 LH468  FRA PDX, then tasks until FINISH LINE


 
« Last Edit: July 03, 2008, 08:50:32 AM by apskip »

Offline apskip

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Re: Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #156 on: August 20, 2008, 05:19:55 PM »
It's time for a new updated timeline. Key new assumptions are that Delhi tasks will end on 5/7, making the release from the pitstop Thursday May 8, and that the missing pitstop is Astana, Kazakhstan. The Delhi day of the week is extremely significant because there is a nonstop flight  once per week flight from Delhi to Almaty, Kazakhstan but only on Saturday night. AR13 teams did not wait around for 2 days to get there more directly.

Here is the updated Timetable:

AR13 TIMELINE

Depending on when they arrive at LAX, teams have choices of 3 flight combinations to Salvador:

4/22, leg 1
LAX DFW AA2446 1250 1740 connecting in Dallas with DFW GRU AA963 1945 0750+1 connecting Sao Paulo with GRU SSA JJ3896 0830 1055 or JJ3174 1035 1250

LAX MIA AA252 1355 2142 connecting in Miami with MIA GRU 2330 0830+1 connecting Sao Paulo with GRU SSA JJ3174 1035 1250

LAX GRU UA843 1405 1005+1 with a stop in ORD from 2005 to 2132 connecting in Sao Paulo with GRU SSA JJ3154 1200 1425

There are other possiblities for the American flight from Miami to connect in Rio, but they can arrive no earlier than the later TAM Aereas Lineas flight into Salvador.

tasks in Salvador; then Hours of Operation

4/23 tasks in Salvador

4/24  We know the elevator task in Salvador is this morning. It will be followed soon after by a pitstop.

4/25 leg 2,  choices of flights from Salvador to Fortaleza are:
SSA FOR JJ3366 0230 0415
SSA FOR JJ3890 0330 0635
SSA FOR G31642 0645 0945
SSA FOR G31260 1100 1350
SSA FOR  JJ8003 1130 1310
followed by tasks in Fortzaleza

4/26 Pitstop in Fortaleza

4/27 leg 3
Teams leave FOR and arrive in Bolivia by air. Whether it is to Santa Cruz or to LaPaz is not known at this time.

4/28
Teams do tasks in Bolivia and then have a pitstop in the LaPaz area.

4/29 start of leg 4
If teams fly from Santa Cruz to Santiago choices are:
LAN967 VVI SCL 1205 1725
LAN967 VVI IQT 1205 1355  LAN365 IQT SCL 1920 2230
TA34     VVI LIM 0805 0900  TA33     LIM SCL  2100 0205+1

If teams fly from LPB to SCL choices are:
LAN 965 LPB SCL through Iquique 1245 1745

Since we know that the pitstop was in LPB, teams could have flown out of there or flown to SantaCruz to connect with the flights there.

4/30
It is highly highly likely that there is a REST DAY in the Santiago area.
What we appear to be sure of is that teams end up at Santiago Chile airport on this evening.

LAN801 2245 0355+2 SCL AKL

5/2 leg 4
Teams do tasks somewhere on the North Island of New Zealand from early morning until late evening when a pitstop starts.

5/3 and 5/4, leg 5
Teams return to Auckland International Airport and fly out in multiple bunches from noon until midnight. Choices of routes from AKL to REP (Siem Reap) are:

AKL BKK TG990 1315 2100, connecting with BKK REP PG903 0800 0900

AKL SYD 1245 1415 NZ119  or  1325 1450 QF190  or 1550 1715 EK419 (note: since it is rumored that an Emirates flight was used, EK419 is thee most likely of the 3)
these connect in Sydney to get SYD BKK with connection on one of these:
1550 2215 TG996
1635 2255 QF301
1700 2315 QF1

The AKL BNE route has several choices:
QF126 1435 1625
NZ739 1530 1720
EK433 1655 1835 this then continues on to Singapore with BNE SIN EK433 2045 0150+1 and then SIN REP 3K595 0600 0700

The BNE BKK route has TG992 2359 0559+1. this would be followed by  BKK REP PG903 0800 0900

Then BNE SIN has a flight after EK433 - SQ2246 2345 0545+1, but it is not in time to connect with 3K595 so teams doing thhis must wait for SIN REP MI616 1025 1135.
Other flights BNE SIN are SQ246 2345 0545. This would connect with 3K595.

There are no flights BKK REP until the morning of May 4. May 4 reports of PG503 0800 0900 not having any teams sighted may be inaccurate, as it is the only flight that could get teams there from Bangkok by late morning since there was no possibility of them leaving Auckland in the afternoon and reaching Bangkok before 7pm.

Another route is AKL MEL 1300 1500 NZ2725  or 1615 1815 QF134
Those connect with MEL BKK 1605 2235 TG982 or
MEL SIN 1920 0100 EK405, which requires a connection to Bangkok or waiting until MI616 SIN REP 1025 1135.
That connection on May 4 is either TG402 SIN BKK 0740 0900 or SQ970 0845 1010. Then a connection to PG905 BKK REP 1100 1220 is the next one possible.

One late team is probably on AKL SIN 2355 0645 SQ282 connecting there with SQ970 and PG905 shown above to avoid waiting for MI633.

5/4 continued
tasks and then TBC in Siem Reap area, followed by more tasks

5/5, start of leg 6
tasks in Siem Reap area, then regular pitstop

5/6 start of leg 7
Siem Reap to Bangkok airport
PG904 REP BKK 0950 1045 .

Choice of this nonstop flights from BKK to DEL:
IC854 BKK DEL 1330 1615

arrival into downtown Delhi would be around 1800.

It looks like the alternate flight connection for any lagging teams is:

PG906 1250 1400 REP BKK
TG315 1745 2045 BKK DEL

5/7
Delhi tasks and start of pitstop

5/8 leg 8 begins
Delhi to Almaty Kazakhstan - choice of 2 sets of connecting flights to Dubai:

AI9897 0745 0945 DEL DXB  nonstop  or
Qatar233 0500 0620 DEL DOH connecting in Doha to Qatar100 (bus) 0755 1000 DOH DBX

In Dubai, there is a connection to KC896 1120 1740 DBX ALA
Teams then have some time for tasks before running into an Hours of Operation limit.

5/9 Tasks take all day; then pitstop

5/10 leg 9 begins with choice of flights (not a long railroad trip) from Almaty to Astana:

KC751 0615 0810
KC851 0940 1125
KC813 1255 1440
KC818  1610 1755
KC878 1810 1955
KC855 1910 2055

followed by tasks in Astana area after arrival; pitstop (could be 24 hours)
NOTE that this leg is SPECULATION  at this point. It is the most logical possibilty, but there are many ways to get from Almaty to Moscow.

5/11 leg 10 begins; fly Astana to Moscow KC873 TSE SVO 2100 0220+1

5/12 Moscow tasks

5/13 Moscow tasks, then afternoon start of pitstop

5/14 leg 11, the FINISH LINE in The Rose City, Portland Oregon
0705 0825 LH3189  DME FRA
0945 1120 LH468  FRA PDX, then tasks until FINISH LINE


  
 
 
« Last Edit: August 22, 2008, 08:51:42 AM by apskip »

Offline Chateau d If

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Re: Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #157 on: August 21, 2008, 12:55:42 AM »
You've got some lousy Leg 2 flights to choose from:

Quote
4/25 leg 2,  choices of flights from Salvador to Fortaleza are:
SSA FOR  JJ8003 1130 1310
SSA FOR G31642 0645 0945
SSA FOR G31260 1100 1350
SSA GRU JJ3171 0600 0830  connecting GRU with JJ3302  0930 1245

followed by tasks in Fortzaleza

Seeing that at least one team will be ready to start the leg as early as about 11:15 pm.  They will arrive in Fortaleza much sooner if they choose from these flights:   :neener:

1   JJ 3366 leaving SSA at 2:30 am arrives FOR at 4:15 am   
2   JJ 3890 leaving SSA at 3:30 am arrives REC at 4:45 am   
      JJ 3890 leaving REC at 5:20 am arrives FOR at 6:35 am
3   G3 1642 leaving SSA at 6:45 am arrives REC at 8:00 am   
      G3 1642 leaving REC at 8:30 am arrives FOR at 9:40 am
4   G3 1817 leaving SSA at 1:15 am arrives GRU at 3:35 am   
      G3 1772 leaving GRU at 8:00 am arrives FOR at 11:20 am
5   JJ 3195 leaving SSA at 3:50 am arrives GIG at 5:50 am   
      JJ 3536 leaving GIG at 8:55 am arrives FOR at 12:05 pm



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Online georgiapeach

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Re: Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #158 on: August 21, 2008, 05:01:06 AM »
Or then again, maybe it is chartered flights??



"Sign up for one of three/four charter planes/helicopters/buses/camels leaving the next morning leaving at staggered departure times."



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« Last Edit: August 16, 2011, 05:52:55 PM by TexasLady »
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Offline apskip

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Re: Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #159 on: August 21, 2008, 06:58:36 AM »
You've got some lousy Leg 2 flights to choose from:

Quote
4/25 leg 2,  choices of flights from Salvador to Fortaleza are:
SSA FOR  JJ8003 1130 1310
SSA FOR G31642 0645 0945
SSA FOR G31260 1100 1350
SSA GRU JJ3171 0600 0830  connecting GRU with JJ3302  0930 1245

followed by tasks in Fortzaleza

Thanks for your research, Chateau, but I consider it to be inapplicable because your assumptions are not right. Tasks will happen  all day in Salvador after a mid-morning arrival there. The pitstop is unlikely to start much before very late afternoon. Add 12 hours and you have my flights shown as the only ones that work. We'll
Seeing that at least one team will be ready to start the leg as early as about 11:15 pm.  They will arrive in Fortaleza much sooner if they choose from these flights:   :neener:

1   JJ 3366 leaving SSA at 2:30 am arrives FOR at 4:15 am   
2   JJ 3890 leaving SSA at 3:30 am arrives REC at 4:45 am   
      JJ 3890 leaving REC at 5:20 am arrives FOR at 6:35 am
3   G3 1642 leaving SSA at 6:45 am arrives REC at 8:00 am   
      G3 1642 leaving REC at 8:30 am arrives FOR at 9:40 am
4   G3 1817 leaving SSA at 1:15 am arrives GRU at 3:35 am   
      G3 1772 leaving GRU at 8:00 am arrives FOR at 11:20 am
5   JJ 3195 leaving SSA at 3:50 am arrives GIG at 5:50 am   
      JJ 3536 leaving GIG at 8:55 am arrives FOR at 12:05 pm






Offline sunnyca

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Re: Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #160 on: August 21, 2008, 02:23:59 PM »
It's time for a new updated timeline. Key new assumptions are that Delhi tasks will end on 5/7, making the release from the pitstop Thursday May 8, and that the missing pitstop is Astana, Kazakhstan. The Delhi day of the week is extremely significant because there is a nonstop flight  once per week flight from Delhi to Almaty, Kazakhstan but only on Saturday night. AR13 teams did not wait around for 2 days to get there more directly.
............
5/8 leg 8 begins
Delhi to Almaty Kazakhstan
This is one of the most interesting set of flight choices ever, all late at night and all taking more than 22 hours to reach ALA:

LH767 DEL FRA 0225 0710 connecting in Frankfurt with
LH646 FRA ALA 1305 0110+1 after a brief stop in Astana

BA142 DEL LHR 0210 0655 connecting in Heathrow with
BA7591 LHR ALA 1330 0140+1

AI310 DEL ICN 2315 1225+1 via Hong Kong, connecting in Seoul-Incheon with
Asiana577 ICN ALA  1810 2155

All of these are late night departures and late night arrivals. It is conceivable that to save monstrous airfares, WRP may have gotten a chartered jet.

5/9 teams arrive in Almaty in the wee hours or just prior to midnight; tasks take all day; then pitstop

5/10 leg 9 begins with choice of flights (not a long railroad trip) from Almaty to Astana:

KC751 0615 0810
KC851 0940 1125
KC813 1255 1440
KC818  1610 1755
KC878 1810 1955
KC855 1910 2055

followed by tasks in Astana area after arrival; pitstop (could be 24 hours)
NOTE that this leg is SPECULATION  at this point. It is the most logical possibilty, but there are many ways to get from Almaty to Moscow.

5/11 leg 10 begins; fly Astana to Moscow KC873 TSE SVO 2100 0220+1

ok, i'm just absorbing all this, so pardon me if you covered this - but isn't it possible to get to almaty from delhi with just one stop via dubai? this would explain the dubai sighting and not take 2 days..
you mentioned the flight getting into to dubai from delhi at 9.30 or 9.45 on thurs 5/8, then there's a flight they can catch to almaty leaving at 11.20am?
http://www.centralasiatourism.com/PDF-files/Almaty.pdf
this timetable says effective june 8, though, so maybe it was somewhat different in may...

Offline apskip

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Re: Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #161 on: August 21, 2008, 03:28:20 PM »
sunnyca, your observation is right on. I did forget about the flight combinations via Dubai that do not come up in standard flight information systems because Air Astana is not a recognized carrier in them. By going back in this thread to probably early May, there is a post by me on the flight possiblities. None of the nonstop flights from Delhi ot Dubai seem to fir in conjunction with KC896 DBX ALA 1120 1740 beacuse none arrives by 1030 into Dubai. So, it is necessary to look at combinations to get to Dubai in time. The best one is Qatar 233 0500 0620 DEL DOH connecting with Qatar 100 0755 1000 DOH DXB, which I recall is a bus because that short distance can't take 2 hours in a plane.
Put all 3 of the above flights together and yuo hav departure at 0500 from Delhi and arrival in Almaty at 1740. You also get maybe an hour where teams could be spotted in Dubai airport.

The only hitch with this is whether teams could get into their pitstop in Delhi the afternoon of May 7 well before 4pm so there is time to get to the airport after release from the Delhi pitstop.

I have modified my most recent Timeline accordingly.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2008, 03:32:00 PM by apskip »

Offline sunnyca

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Re: Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #162 on: August 21, 2008, 03:57:36 PM »
cool!!  :yess:
yep, there's probably many ways to get into dubai from india - popular destination! - including the one in your may post -
Delhi to Dubai nonstop flights:
AI9897 DEL DXB 0745 0945
i just checked - this one's still running too, except it leaves at 7.50am now.

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Re: Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #163 on: August 21, 2008, 05:39:07 PM »
sunnyca, I missed AI9897 because it shows up on Air India and on broad-based flight information systems as having no flights on Thursdays in August through to near the end of September. However, I have discovered that the reason for this is that those flights are already completely booked and therefore do not show up when a search for applicable flights is made. It is likely that AI9897 was flying on May 8, so it can be used as a preferred alternative to the Qatar Airways flights on my Timeline.

Offline Chateau d If

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Re: Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #164 on: August 22, 2008, 02:12:04 AM »
Here are the flights that I think we will see the teams use to start the first leg.  This is a concoction of some flights we already know about and some new ones.  The re-working of this flight info comes about from the new understanding gained from the previews that teams do not stop for activities in Sao Paulo after all.  I was told that they flew to Sao Paulo by a United gate agent who was on hand when they sold them tickets to Sao Paulo.  I guess he did not know about the rest.

The United Airlines Group:

UA 116 leaving LAX at 12:55 pm arriving ORD at 6:55 pm
or UA 843 leaving LAX at 2:05 pm arriving ORD at 8:05 pm
Then UA 843 leaving ORD at 9:32 pm arriving GRU at 10:05 am
Then G3 1978 leaving GRU at 12:50 pm arriving SSA at 3:05 pm (canceled or missed)
Doing this instead:  LU 750 leaving GRU at 12:40 pm arriving GIG at 1:45 pm
Then G3 1830 leaving GIG at 2:35 pm arriving SSA at 4:30 pm

The American Airlines Group:

AA 252 leaving LAX at 1:55 pm arriving MIA at 9:42 pm
Then AA 905 leaving MIA at 11:10 pm arriving GIG at 8:30 am
Then G3 1600 leaving GIG at 10:30 am arriving SSA at 12:30 pm
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Offline apskip

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Re: Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #165 on: August 22, 2008, 08:23:29 AM »
Chateau, you are quite right to do an extension to Salvador on Wednesday April 23. the flights in my timetable only went to Sao Paulo. The extensions gives the opportunity to take a fresh look at flights. Your combination UA843/LU750/G3 1830 for the United flight group looks fine.

There are two American flight groups, I am aware of, through Miami and through Dallas.  The former is LAX MIA AA252 355 2142 connecting in Miami with AA995 GRU 2330 0830+1, then connecting in Sao Paulo with GRU SSA JJ3174 1035 1250. The other one through Dallas is LAX DFW AA2446 1250 1740 connecting in Dallas with DFW GRU AA963 1945 0750+1. This gives teams flight JJ3174 as a backup with the main chance being GRU SSA JJ3896 0830 1055.

So, my question to you is why a team would take a route through Rio de Janeiro that can do no better than arrive at approximately the same time as another route that could be 95 mintues earlier? With full information unless there were weather reports indicating delays at Sao Paulo and not Rio, it would not be a logical choice. The only possibility is that American Airlines had limited choices to offer teams. Your route's only advantage is that it does allow for the sighting of a few teams in the Rio airport.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2008, 08:27:56 AM by apskip »

Offline Chateau d If

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Re: Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #166 on: August 22, 2008, 10:27:30 AM »
Yeah, I was not very comfortable with the arrangement.  I suspect there were disruptions in the flight schedules due to the Porto Alegre airport being closed on the morning of the 23rd.  The spoiler-Cordoba flight was diverted away from Porto Alegre.  And the tourist who blogged wrote that that flight was supposed to go on to Sao Paulo but went to Rio instead where he saw teams.

It's a bit of mess.

I only put in one AA group.  Two AAs could well have happened.   :duno:

We need some detective work on which teams were seen together and where.  I suspect the UA group is not very happy and they get the bad times from 19 BC.
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Re: Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #167 on: August 22, 2008, 11:17:17 AM »
The Salvador arrival time for the UA group being 4 hours later than the earliest possible AA group, I am sure that the UA group is really unhappy about it. Presumably those were the last or stupidest teams to arrive at LAX.

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Re: Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #168 on: August 22, 2008, 11:38:19 AM »
I can tell you that no filming permits were issued for Miami. However, they apparently should have also  been issued for Chicago as well, and weren't, so this may not be helpful....
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Offline apskip

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Re: Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #169 on: September 26, 2008, 12:23:21 PM »
EPISODE 3 FLIGHTS
I have taken a fresh look at the flights from Fortaleza to either Santa Cruz or LaPaz Bolivia for episode 3, based on looking at each leg through Sao Paulo, Buenos Aires, and Lima. This is a very difficult route with long connections. Although the distances are not like Argentina to Moscow or Ushuaia to Maputo, it will take 12 hours or more to do this. Here are the possiblities for Fortaleza to Santa Cruz:

Best if pitstop release time is in the afternoon is JJ3849 FOR GRU 1515 1835 connecting in SaoPaulo with G37460 GRU VVI 2200 0115. There is a slightly earlier alternate fOR GRU - G31883 1440 1810.

The one most teams are likely to get is JJ3325 FOR GRU 0730 1130 connecting in Sao Paulo with 5L301 GRU VVI 1600 1730.

If a leading team is released by midnight, then they could get JJ3323 FOR GRU 0130 0500 connecting in Sao Paulo with AR1263 SRU EZE 0630 0925 and connecting in Buenos Aires with AR1362 EZE VVI 1115 1320.

Other routes from GRU to VVI through EZE are inferior; only this one above works for AR13.

For FOR LPB there are few options and the best is taking the middle option for get on 5L301 which goes GRU VVI and then continues on to LPB after a lengthy stopover, arriving at 2115; summarizing, it is 5L301 GRU LPB 1600 2115. In front of that you have JJ3325 FOR GRU 0730 1130.

Another option to LPB is to go through LIM.  We start FOR GRU with JJ3325 0730 1130. Next is GRU LIM LP780 1450 1810. finally, we have 5L1405 LIM LPB 2130 0015 or 3 hours later than the prior combination.

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Re: Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #170 on: September 26, 2008, 02:56:07 PM »
I have done the same second look at episode 4 intra-South American flights by looking at each major hub and putting pieces together. Those hubs are Lima, Sao Paulo, and Buenos Aires. My current Timeline has the following:

Teams fly from Santa Cruz to Santiago. Choices are:
LAN967 VVI SCL 1205 1725
LAN967 VVI IQT 1205 1355  LAN365 IQT SCL 1920 2230
TA34     VVI LIM 0805 0900  TA33     LIM SCL  2100 0205+1


In addition to those valid flights, we can add 5L300 VVI GRU 0950 1345, connecting in SaoPaulo with GRU SCL LA751  1650 1945 and
JJ701 VVI EZE 1540 2040 connecting Buenos Aires with G37756 EZE SCL 2230 0045+1.

Those are still valid. In addition, if the flight is from LaPaz, then we could substitute TA38 LPB LIM 0855 0945 connecting in Lima with G37459 1420 1840  LIM SCL or the combination 5L111 LPB VVI 0700 0830 connecting SantaCruz with 5L300 VVI GRU 0950 1345, connecting in SaoPaulo with GRU SCL LA751  1650 1945.

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Re: Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #171 on: September 26, 2008, 05:20:33 PM »
AR13 TIMELINE(note that this one assumes the 2 legs Delhi area and 2 legs Moscow scenario, which has a CBS claim supporting it and is proably right; it does not mean that legs 7 and 9 are still not open to question)

Depending on when they arrive at LAX, teams have choices of 3 flight combinations to Salvador:

4/22, leg 1
LAX DFW AA2446 1250 1740 connecting in Dallas with DFW GRU AA963 1945 0750+1 connecting Sao Paulo with GRU SSA JJ3896 0830 1055 or JJ3174 1035 1250

LAX MIA AA252 1355 2142 connecting in Miami with MIA GRU 2330 0830+1 connecting Sao Paulo with GRU SSA JJ3174 1035 1250

LAX GRU UA843 1405 1005+1 with a stop in ORD from 2005 to 2132 connecting in Sao Paulo with GRU SSA JJ3154 1200 1425

There are other possiblities for the American flight from Miami to connect in Rio, but they can arrive no earlier than the later TAM Aereas Lineas flight into Salvador.

tasks in Salvador; then Hours of Operation

4/23 tasks in Salvador

4/24  We know the elevator task in Salvador is this morning. It will be followed soon after by a pitstop. For top teams that means that they can reach the Salvador airport by 11pm and possibly get G31604 SSA FOR 2310 0055+1.

4/25 leg 2,  choices of flights from Salvador to Fortaleza are:
SSA FOR JJ3366 0230 0415
SSA FOR JJ3890 0330 0635
SSA FOR G31642 0645 0945
SSA FOR G31260 1100 1350
SSA FOR  JJ8003 1130 1310
followed by tasks in Fortzaleza

4/26 Pitstop in Fortaleza

4/27 leg 3
Best if pitstop release time is in the afternoon is JJ3849 FOR GRU 1515 1835 connecting in SaoPaulo with G37460 GRU VVI 2200 0115. There is a slightly earlier alternate fOR GRU - G31883 1440 1810.

The one most teams are likely to get is JJ3325 FOR GRU 0730 1130 connecting in Sao Paulo with 5L301 GRU VVI 1600 1730.

If a leading team is released by midnight, then they could get JJ3323 FOR GRU 0130 0500 connecting in Sao Paulo with AR1263 SRU EZE 0630 0925 and connecting in Buenos Aires with AR1362 EZE VVI 1115 1320.

Other routes from GRU to VVI through EZE are inferior; only this one above works for AR13.

For FOR LPB there are few options and the best is taking the  5L301 JJ3325 FOR GRU 0730 1130 connecting in Sao Paulo with 5L301 GRU VVI 1600 1730, then 5L211 VVI LPB 1900 2000.

Another option to LPB is to go through LIM.  We start FOR GRU with JJ3325 0730 1130. Next is GRU LIM LP780 1450 1810. finally, we have 5L1405 LIM LPB 2130 0015 or 3 hours later than the prior combination.

In addition, if the flight is from LaPaz, then TA38 LPB LIM 0855 0945 connecting in Lima with G37459 1420 1840  LIM SCL or the combination 5L111 LPB VVI 0700 0830 connecting SantaCruz with 5L300 VVI GRU 0950 1345, connecting in SaoPaulo with GRU SCL LA751  1650 1945.

4/28
Teams do tasks in Bolivia and then have a pitstop in the LaPaz area.

4/29 start of leg 4
If teams fly from Santa Cruz to Santiago choices are:
LAN967 VVI SCL 1205 1725
LAN967 VVI IQT 1205 1355  LAN365 IQT SCL 1920 2230
TA34     VVI LIM 0805 0900  TA33     LIM SCL  2100 0205+1
5L300 VVI GRU 0950 1345, connecting in SaoPaulo with GRU SCL LA751  1650 1945 and
JJ701 VVI EZE 1540 2040 connecting Buenos Aires with G37756 EZE SCL 2230 0045+1.

If the flight is from LaPaz, then choices are :
LAN 965 LPB SCL through Iquique 1245 1745
TA38 LPB LIM 0855 0945 connecting in Lima with G37459 1420 1840  LIM SCL
5L111 LPB VVI 0700 0830 connecting SantaCruz with 5L300 VVI GRU 0950 1345, connecting in SaoPaulo with GRU SCL LA751  1650 1945.

Since we know that the pitstop was in LPB, teams could have flown out of there or flown to SantaCruz to connect with the flights there.

4/30
It is highly highly likely that there is a REST DAY in the Santiago area.
What we appear to be sure of is that teams end up at Santiago Chile airport on this evening.

LAN801 2245 0355+2 SCL AKL

5/2 leg 4
Teams do tasks somewhere on the North Island of New Zealand from early morning until late evening when a pitstop starts.

5/3 and 5/4, leg 5
Teams return to Auckland International Airport and fly out in multiple bunches from noon until midnight. Choices of routes from AKL to REP (Siem Reap) are:

AKL BKK TG990 1315 2100, connecting with BKK REP PG903 0800 0900

AKL SYD 1245 1415 NZ119  or  1325 1450 QF190  or 1550 1715 EK419 (note: since it is rumored that an Emirates flight was used, EK419 is thee most likely of the 3)
these connect in Sydney to get SYD BKK with connection on one of these:
1550 2215 TG996
1635 2255 QF301
1700 2315 QF1

The AKL BNE route has several choices:
QF126 1435 1625
NZ739 1530 1720
EK433 1655 1835 this then continues on to Singapore with BNE SIN EK433 2045 0150+1 and then SIN REP 3K595 0600 0700

The BNE BKK route has TG992 2359 0559+1. this would be followed by  BKK REP PG903 0800 0900

Then BNE SIN has a flight after EK433 - SQ2246 2345 0545+1, but it is not in time to connect with 3K595 so teams doing thhis must wait for SIN REP MI616 1025 1135.
Other flights BNE SIN are SQ246 2345 0545. This would connect with 3K595.

There are no flights BKK REP until the morning of May 4. May 4 reports of PG503 0800 0900 not having any teams sighted may be inaccurate, as it is the only flight that could get teams there from Bangkok by late morning since there was no possibility of them leaving Auckland in the afternoon and reaching Bangkok before 7pm.

Another route is AKL MEL 1300 1500 NZ2725  or 1615 1815 QF134
Those connect with MEL BKK 1605 2235 TG982 or
MEL SIN 1920 0100 EK405, which requires a connection to Bangkok or waiting until MI616 SIN REP 1025 1135.
That connection on May 4 is either TG402 SIN BKK 0740 0900 or SQ970 0845 1010. Then a connection to PG905 BKK REP 1100 1220 is the next one possible.

One late team is probably on AKL SIN 2355 0645 SQ282 connecting there with SQ970 and PG905 shown above to avoid waiting for MI633.

5/4 continued
tasks and then in Siem Reap area

5/5, start of leg 6
tasks in Siem Reap area, then regular pitstop

5/6 start of leg 6
Siem Reap to Bangkok airport
PG904 REP BKK 0950 1045 .

Choice of this nonstop flights from BKK to DEL:
IC854 BKK DEL 1330 1615

arrival into downtown Delhi would be around 1800.

It looks like the alternate flight connection for any lagging teams is:

PG906 1250 1400 REP BKK
TG315 1745 2045 BKK DEL

5/7
Delhi tasks and start of pitstop

5/8 leg 7 begins, Delhi area tasks;

5/9 leg 8 begins; Delhi to Almaty Kazakhstan
AI9897 0745 0945 DEL DXB  connecting with KC896 1120 1740 DBX ALA; some Almaty tasks after arrival

5/10 Almaty area tasks; pitstop

5/11 leg 9 begins; fly Almaty to Astana KC991 1810 1955 connecting with
Astana to Moscow KC873 TSE SVO 2100 0220+1

5/12 tasks; ending possibly with a TBC

5/13 leg 10 begins, possibly after TBC; Moscow tasks, then afternoon start of pitstop

5/14 leg 11, the FINISH LINE in The Rose City, Portland Oregon
0705 0825 LH3189  DME FRA
0945 1120 LH468  FRA PDX, then tasks until FINISH LINE
« Last Edit: October 12, 2008, 02:02:39 PM by apskip »

Offline apskip

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Re: Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #172 on: September 28, 2008, 10:08:41 PM »
I did a make-good analysis on the flights I expected vs. those team may have actually taken. The first piece of evidence is that teams on their way to LAX indicate a 3 hour difference with "American" over "United." Here are the flights predicted:

4/22, leg 1
LAX DFW AA2446 1250 1740 connecting in Dallas with DFW GRU AA963 1945 0750+1 (Note: first to arrive if on schedule)

LAX MIA AA252 1355 2142 connecting in Miami with AA995 MIA GRU 2330 0830+1 (Note: second to arrive if on schedule)

LAX GRU UA843 1405 1005+1 with a stop in ORD from 2005 to 2132 (Note: third and last to arrive)

4/23  teams go from GRU to SSA(Salvador) but it is unclear how many fly nonstop and how many connect through Rio de Janeiro. There are numerous 2 1/4 hour nonstops from GRU to SSA.

Now the first and best option through DFW was not offered to teams for unknown reasons. It may have been a full enough flight, WRP may have erstricted it, or AA may have restricted it.
The best route for teams was AA252 connecting with AA995 connecting GRU SSA G31941 1005 1220. You can look at an alternate AA252 connecting with AA905 GRU GIG 2330 0830 but it arrives 5 minutes later in SSA after connecting with GIG SSA JJ8001 1020 1225. The could also fly on GOL, but who would want to since it is 10 minutes behind JJ8001?
The other route is the UA842 LAX ORD and continuing ORD GRU as shown above and connecting there with JJ3154 1215 1440.
That results in a difference of 1440 - 1225 = 2 hours 15 minutes, or less than the 3 hours. There are no flights that give you 3 hours, so I am not worried.

The other factor to considered here is the delay for the Rio-connecting passengers. That cut the real gap between American and United, but it is not clear how much.

 
« Last Edit: September 30, 2008, 02:32:38 PM by apskip »

Offline apskip

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Re: Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #173 on: September 30, 2008, 08:12:21 AM »
The earlier than expected arrival of probably the first 4 teams to the Fort Sao Marcelo pitstop in Salvador opens up a possibility of one more flight. Since the 1010am or some after finish of the first 4 teams makes it possible for them to reach the Salvador airport in time for a Thursday April 24 1110pm flight. They may have been able to get on G31604 SSA FOR 2310 0055+1. All the other teams will probably be on G33366 0230 0415 identified previously.

Offline Chateau d If

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Re: Timetables and Flight Information
« Reply #174 on: September 30, 2008, 12:13:33 PM »
I thought these were the actual flights taken:

American Airlines group:
AA 252 LAX MIA leaving 1:55 pm, arriving 9:42 pm
AA 905 MIA GIG leaving 11:10 pm, arriving 8:30 am
G3 1600 GIG SSA leaving 10:30 am, arriving 12:30 pm (but is delayed 1.5 hours)


United Airlines group:
UA 843 LAX ORD leaving 2:05 pm, arriving 8:05 pm
UA 843 ORD GRU leaving 9:32 pm, arriving 10:05 pm
JJ 3172 GRU SSA leaving 1:30 pm, arriving 3:50 pm


We know they were on G3 1600 because it is in the broadcast.
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