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Author Topic: Blast from the Past! Previous Season Timeline Questions....  (Read 9510 times)

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Offline strategery

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Quote
CBS has officially renewed The Amazing Race, but only for one more season, which will not air until midseason.
That’s a change from the show’s fairly regular pattern of airing two seasons a year, which has happened consistently since the show’s beginning, with the exception of the year-long gap between seasons four and five, which was followed by three seasons airing over one year.
"Fairly regular pattern"? Sure, if you also ignore the long break between TAR3 and TAR4. And the constant changes in time slots. This show has always been just about one non-Emmy away from cancellation. My recollection is that, after the strong performace of TAR7, CBS picked up Seasons 8 and 9. But IIRC, a year ago they had only greenlighted TAR10, and TAR11 didn't get the final go-ahead until after the Emmys. 

In any event, for those of you looking to apply your considerable sleuthing skills while we wait for TAR12, I've restarted my efforts to timeline the TAR Classic seasons over at TARFlies and could use all the help I can get. Just posted TAR3, Episode 7 (Marrakech to Fussen) and in particular could use help figuring out a) what schloss near Neuchwanstein Castle was the actual pit stop (Google Maps is very fuzzy around there, unfortunately) and b) what time Flo/Zach and Andre/Damon actually arrived there. Chateau?
« Last Edit: May 19, 2007, 08:59:54 PM by puddin »


Offline apskip

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Re: The Future of The Amazing Race & TAR 12
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2007, 04:25:49 PM »
strategery, I'll bite on one of the truly classic TAR episodes. Here goes:

Neuschwanstein Castle is not the only one in the area. I visited there two decades ago and nearby is Schloss Hohenschwangau. Unfortunately, it is up higher than Neuschwanstein so there would be no meadows below it. I think you have to accept what the official CBS TAR3 and CBS websites say about this - that the pitstop is in a meadow below Neuschwanstein Castle. If you go to Google Earth, look for a Panoramico labelled "Neuschwanstein - usser [HDR]. It shows the castle in the foreground and broad flat meadows in the background.

On Andre/Damon, "My Ox is Broken" identifies the time of their arrival by plane into Munich as 0830. Given them some time to reach the Munich central train station and they could catch the southbound international express. It leaves Munich at 0933, gets to Innsbruck at 1121, and next stop is the Austria/Itlay border at the Brenner Pass at 1202. That is the earliest they could get off the train if they were asleep at Innsbruck. The next train northbound from the Brenner Pass leaves at 1220 and arrives Innsbruck at 1259. Give them 15 minutes to find their way to the Annasaule. There they get the revised clue that they need to take a marked car directly to the pitstop near Fussen. It is 70 miles and the roads in northern Austria and southern Germany are not expressways, so assume about 35 miles per hour on average. My guess is two hours. That gets them to the pitstop at about 315pm (1515). Let's see how that corresponds to whatever Chateau comes up with if he does this.

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Offline Chateau d If

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Re: The Future of The Amazing Race & TAR 12
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2007, 03:05:20 AM »
Hey Strat, for TAR3-7 I've matched the view from the meadow to this location in GE.  I noticed a street name in the GE image of Bullachbergweg.  That sounded a lot like what the teams were trying to say (take off the "weg" at the end since that probably means "way").  There is a Schloss Bullachberg in Fussen.  An image from their site seems to match the view from the meadow that we see on the show.  I can't find any pix on their site of the modern red roofed building that we see behind the teams as they check in.

Times will come later.  Are you really sure it was filmed August 26th, 2002?  From Weather underground, I'm seeing no rain on the 26th but there is rain on the 27th for Andre & Damon's soggy check in.

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Online georgiapeach

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Re: The Future of The Amazing Race & TAR 12
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2007, 05:57:51 AM »
I don't have a pic to compare to but here is a red-roofed building labelled Schloss Bullachberg from Flickr--any use?

Great job Chateau!

Let's start a new thread for old -timey spoilers--might keep us occupied during this long wait--fun!

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Offline Chateau d If

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Re: The Future of The Amazing Race & TAR 12
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2007, 04:55:14 PM »
Puddin, like Peach says, you can move this topic to a new thread.  I just don't know what we should call it.

But meanwhile I have something new.  I used to use GlobalExplorer for my satellite imaging until GE came on the scene.  But the GE view of Fussen Germany sucks big time.  And my old friend comes through.

Compare with what I found with GlobalX:

Peach, the shot you found is the main castle of the place.  Never shown to us on the show  ???  I have circled it below.  The mat is about where the orange rectangle is.

With this I will be able to determine some good check in times.



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Blast from the Past! Previous Season Timeline Questions....
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2007, 07:10:22 PM »
While we are waiting for Season 12, let's have fun with all those pesky unanswered questions from previous seasons!

Strategery will hit us with the questions for his Timelines--and then TAR Detectives to work! :yess:

Something to keep our spoiler muscles occupied during the TAR drought....
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Offline puddin

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Re: Blast from the Past! Previous Season Timeline Questions....
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2007, 09:01:40 PM »
Well I tried to move the posts peach but as usual the posts came out oldest to newest  :lol: ..anyway here ya go  :waves:

Offline Kogs

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Re: Blast from the Past! Previous Season Timeline Questions....
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2007, 09:28:00 PM »
Well I tried to move the posts peach but as usual the posts came out oldest to newest  :lol: ..anyway here ya go  :waves:

 :lol: now thats funny

Offline Slowhatch

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Re: Blast from the Past! Previous Season Timeline Questions....
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2007, 10:19:12 PM »
Quote from: Chateau
There is a Schloss Bullachberg in Fussen.  An image from their site seems to match the view from the meadow that we see on the show.
You've got it.  :tup: I went back to the video. Flo calls it "bullockberg" (as in Bullocks Wilshire  :lol:) and Andre/Damon just call it "Bulletberg."

Offline strategery

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Re: Blast from the Past! Previous Season Timeline Questions....
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2007, 12:47:16 AM »
Excellent! Wow, I knew you guys were good but this is really impressive work. Bravo, Chateau. And thanks to georgiapeach and puddin for starting the new thread. Hard to know where to begin with my list of lingering questions, but maybe I'll start with nearby TAR3 eps and then work my way back.

Quote
Are you really sure it was filmed August 26th, 2002?

I'm not. I've been taking that "official" TARflies timeline -- which was developed contemporaneously with some input from Ken -- as given and working from there. So I have to admit I have been lax about looking for date clues or checking flight schedules for consistency (it's been hard enough finding any flight info since Airwise no longer goes back that far). I also have not been checking closely for spliced clue-readings or edited-out tasks (other than what I've seen identified by racers in interviews), so that's another untapped mine.

As for other nagging questions:

1) I was pretty sure that when Andre/Damon overslept on the train to Innsbruck they were told by a conductor they'd have to go to Salzburg to turn around. I don't have the energy to double-check right now, but as apskip pointed out, trains from Munich to Innsbruck generally head toward Italy, not Salzburg. (Years ago I traveled the opposite way, on a train from Italy bound for Munich, and got off at Innsbruck to change for a train to Salzburg -- simply breathaking scenery all around.) Anybody have a good link to old train schedules? My usual source is here, which just has the current schedule. Or maybe Chateau can figure out what time it was when Andre/Damon got to the clue box in Innsbruck -- I've always assumed they don't hand out the mercy clue until all other teams have checked in but I could be wrong. (Ken/Garard's departure time for the next leg is 2:42.) 

2) I'd been having a hard time finding the first task on Ep 3:8, which sent the teams to a haystack on Augustinerhof Farm (CBS Recap). One problem was than most of the links a Google search provided were to other episode summaries -- one of the problems of a post-broadcast search. But inspired by you folks I checked one of the German links (here) and found an Augustinerhof guest house listed on Hiltepoldweg in Schwangau, not far from Bullachbergweg (map). But further sleuthing would still be much appreciated.

3) I've had no luck finding a ferry schedule or estimating the elapsed time (1 hour??) from the ferry from Friedrichshafen to Romanshorn, Switzerland. Google maps does show that it's a relatively short trip. They appear to arrive before sunrise (roughly 6:30am), and they catch a train to Schaffhausen that arrives (per a platform clock) at 8:25am and takes (per a racer) about one hour. 

Anyays, if that's not interesting enough I'm sure I can come up with more questions. Thanks again.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2007, 12:51:52 AM by strategery »


Offline Slowhatch

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Re: Blast from the Past! Previous Season Timeline Questions....
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2007, 01:09:15 AM »
This page on farm holidays lists a farm with that name at 49 Fussener strasse Schwangau, which puts it right at the back door of Bullachberg.

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Re: Blast from the Past! Previous Season Timeline Questions....
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2007, 03:05:35 AM »
From this link found this ferry schedule:

Also this link to another line but it is in German.

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Re: Blast from the Past! Previous Season Timeline Questions....
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2007, 03:55:02 AM »
Thank you puddin for moving the posts around! (Know how much you love doing that! :kissy:)
"Our fans are pretty good. They don't give away too much. Sometimes people love dropping spoilers, but our fans are good. They tend to do it in such a way that doesn't ruin it for fans who don't want to know."--Phil Keoghan

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Re: Blast from the Past! Previous Season Timeline Questions....
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2007, 09:41:30 AM »
Quote
I'm sure I can come up with more questions.

More please! :) :hyper: :)

We are insatiable around here!
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Offline apskip

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Re: Blast from the Past! Previous Season Timeline Questions....
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2007, 08:32:37 AM »
strategery, I do not believe you were in doubt about this, but the AR3 CBS website states: "Andre & Damon finally reached Annasaule in Innsbruck, where they opened their clue instructing them to go to the Pit Stop at Neuschwanstein Castle". That leaves no doubt to them getting the mercy clue. My judgment on when that happened, about 1315, depends on the most favorable assumptions relative to their recognition that they had missed Innsbruck and whenthey would make the turnaround. If they missed the Brenner Pass stop on the Austrian side, the next stop would be Bolzano, reached at 1329. The return train to Innsbruck leaves at 1431 and arrives 1633. That would add over 5 hours to their arrival back in Innsbruck and at the pitstop. It would place them there around 1848. It could have happened this way, particularly since Ken and Gerard did not arrrive at the pitstop until 1442.

« Last Edit: May 21, 2007, 09:58:26 AM by apskip »

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Offline strategery

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Re: Blast from the Past! Previous Season Timeline Questions....
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2007, 11:22:11 PM »
Wow, nice work slowhatch and georgiapeach. I especially like the ferry schedule -- which matches up perfectly with the show, and also indicates how far behind Ken/Gerard would have been if they'd missed that first ferry. But jeez, couldn't you make it look like you broke a sweat finding that stuff? Maybe I just have an inferior version of Google.  ;D

As for more questions, here what I've got on Leg 8 (Fussen to Grindelwald):

1) Where exactly is the Chalet Arnika pit stop? Here's what I've been able to surmise so far:

a) There's a link to a Chalet Arnika on Wikipedia's TAR3 page (to this site) -- but it looks nothing like the one on the show, and as far as I can tell it's in another part of Switzerland altogether. You're shocked, I'm sure.

b) This site shows an address for a Chalet Arnika in Grindelwald, but I couldn't find that street. The "official" Grindelwald site (link) doesn't list a Chalet Arnika.

c) After they get out of their cab and are running to the pit stop, John Vito and Jill pass what appears to be an Alpenblick Restaurant. I found this site that seems to fit the bill. The pictures don't match well -- perhaps it's had a face lift since -- but on this map, getting to Alpenblick does involve turning left off the main road at a church, and two teams got those directions to the pit stop.

2) What is the statue that team have to find as part of the "Run the Numbers" Detour in Zurich -- the one with the number 12 on it? This map shows the location the racers were given for it -- corner of Sihl Strasse and Bahnhof Strasse.

3) For extra credit, can anyone find the precise location of the field where the "William Tell" roadblock was staged? The clue they got said: "Make your way to the town of Grindelwald and look for a route marker in the field east of the Grund [train] station."

Finally, going back to Andre/Damon, it's possible the train conductor's watch reads 6:00 as he tells them they have to go to Salzburg to get a train back to Innsbruck. And checking again it's pretty late when they finally reach the clue box in Innsbruck -- not sunset yet, but getting there.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2007, 11:25:41 PM by strategery »

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Re: Blast from the Past! Previous Season Timeline Questions....
« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2007, 11:31:43 PM »
Quote
Wow, nice work slowhatch and georgiapeach. I especially like the ferry schedule -- which matches up perfectly with the show, and also indicates how far behind Ken/Gerard would have been if they'd missed that first ferry. But jeez, couldn't you make it look like you broke a sweat finding that stuff? Maybe I just have an inferior version of Google.
 

Heee... we've all been to "puddin" school!

If you have any pictures, can you add them? I have the season on tape.....somewhere....but if you have pictures all ready for the match that would be great! Pics from the show would be a big help for me anyway...
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Offline Slowhatch

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Re: Blast from the Past! Previous Season Timeline Questions....
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2007, 01:18:12 AM »
A couple of good interactive maps here and here. I'm at a slower computer this week, so I won't be able to keep up. The yellow pages lists 4 chalet arnikas for all of switzerland, none in Grindelwald. Very curious...  ???

Offline serendipity

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Re: Blast from the Past! Previous Season Timeline Questions....
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2007, 01:35:53 AM »
As for more questions, here what I've got on Leg 8 (Fussen to Grindelwald):

1) Where exactly is the Chalet Arnika pit stop? Here's what I've been able to surmise so far:
2) What is the statue that team have to find as part of the "Run the Numbers" Detour in Zurich -- the one with the number 12 on it? This map shows the location the racers were given for it -- corner of Sihl Strasse and Bahnhof Strasse.
3) For extra credit, can anyone find the precise location of the field where the "William Tell" roadblock was staged? The clue they got said: "Make your way to the town of Grindelwald and look for a route marker in the field east of the Grund [train] station."

I think I could give you some help here. Last summer I went to Switzerland and found all those places!!

Pic 1,2: This is the Chalet Arnika, when I was there I tried to ask people for location but no one knew this place, fortunately I kept going uphill and finally saw it.

Pic 3: This is the statue, it's very near Lindenhof and right outside a shopping mall

Pic 4: I think this is the field for the roadblock, I am not sure but this is the only place where there's a large field outside the train station. In my opinion, it's very hard for teams to go from here to the pitstop, at least a half-hour walk uphill, I couldn't believe the producers made them do this.

It's very fun to go there and try to find those places, it's like running a race myself!!  :yess:

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Re: Blast from the Past! Previous Season Timeline Questions....
« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2007, 07:06:31 AM »
Nice job serendipity! I'll bet that was fun to do!

Would you happen to have the Chalet marked on a map for strategery?
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Offline Slowhatch

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Re: Blast from the Past! Previous Season Timeline Questions....
« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2007, 07:07:54 PM »
About the statue: still haven't found a sculptor name or title yet. Jelmoli is Zurich's oldest department store. See the photo here (also note the shadow of a traffic light). For a map, go here, enter "Siedengasse 1" for an address and Zurich or CH-8001 for a postcode (sorry, no screencaps where I'm at) and zoom in. My guess is that the statue is at the south end of the shopping center, near the intersection with Bahnhofstrasse.

Offline Chateau d If

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Re: Blast from the Past! Previous Season Timeline Questions....
« Reply #21 on: May 24, 2007, 05:26:08 PM »
Great news Strat:
Flow & Zach got screwed in Leg 7.
Here is what happened.

This shot was taken between 8:52 and 9:03 am (assumes August 27th, 2002).
The sun was exactly perpendicular to the red-roofed structure.  Makes it easy to get the time.

The first clue was at the nearby farm that Slowhatch found.
Let's say they got there, found it and left at 9:10 am.
They had to drive about 71 miles on German highways from Fussen to the ferry in Friedrichshafen.
That would take about an hour.   :snicker:
According to Peach's ferry schedule there is a last-ferrry-of-the-day at 10:41 pm.
They could have made that ferry had they started the leg at 9:02 pm.
But we were told they started at 10:02 pm (Phil does not say the "12 hours later" line either).   (:;)


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« Last Edit: May 24, 2007, 05:34:42 PM by Chateau d If »
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Offline Chateau d If

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Re: Blast from the Past! Previous Season Timeline Questions....
« Reply #22 on: May 24, 2007, 06:03:11 PM »
This shot of the arrival of the Twins at the pit stop was taken between 11:33 and 11:51 am (assumes August 27, 2002).

The orange line marks where there is a shadow line on a curved wall. 
That line is just a few degrees shy of the 45 deg roof cut.
What this means is that the Sun has moved about 42 degrees since the shot of Flo & Zach's arrival when it was perpendicular to the building.

Since we have the Twins starting the next leg at 12:44 am it looks like all teams were given at 13 hour pit stop.

And Flo & Zach got screwed out of another Easy Share Camera.   :rotf:


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« Last Edit: May 24, 2007, 06:07:31 PM by Chateau d If »
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Re: Blast from the Past! Previous Season Timeline Questions....
« Reply #23 on: May 24, 2007, 08:29:24 PM »
Damn but he is good!

Another nice job! :yess:

That must have been deliberate to keep some teams from getting too far ahead...

More please strategery!  :)

Did we get everything you needed??
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Offline strategery

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Re: Blast from the Past! Previous Season Timeline Questions....
« Reply #24 on: May 25, 2007, 01:09:43 AM »
Great stuff everybody. I wish I could provide screen caps to help, georgiapeach, but I don't have the capability. Sorry I'm not as high tech as you all -- but feel free to post any images contained in my links for easier reference.

First of all, great pics serendipity. I also think your assessment of the timing is correct. As far as I can tell from the train schedules, the racers probably arrived in Grindelwald at about 4:00, and they checked in at the mat at about 5:00. The Roadblock couldn't have taken that long so a good chunk of that time was simply the walk, which looks like it could be a mile uphill. To help with the mapping, do you recall if Chalet Arnkia was near the Hotel Alpenblick that's shown below? Does that look like the right distance from / relation to the train station?

And more awesome work, Chateau. It's truly amazing what you an do with a couple of screen caps. I do have to quibble with your theory about Flo/Zach, however. They were shown getting to the ferry terminal at 12:50am, nearly 3 hours after they left Fussen. And Google Maps is telling me it's a drive of 1:45 if you make no mistakes. So I don't think F/Z got screwed. I don't have a good explanation for the 13-hour pit stop, however.

I'm also going to have to disagree with you about the date they reached Fussen. Weather Underground tells me it was raining in Innsbruck at 8:00 am on 8/27/02 (link), which is when the teams were doing the bobsled detour. On the 26th, however, it's partly cloudy -- which fits better. Also, the closest town on WU that I could find to Fussen is Kempten, which is just a bit north. And it shows rain showers starting at 7:30pm (link) -- so that actually helps nail down Damon/Andre's arrival time. On the 27th, however, it was raining in Kepmten at the time when Flo/Zach would have to have checked in. Another thing pegging down dates? I was just checking Leg 5 to Fez and noticed a nice full moon at the end of that leg -- which WU confirms was on 8/22. They had one extened pit stop after that (in Marrakech) but I don't think they had two.

As for new stuff, I have to go back a few episodes but how about this: Find the 2nd restaurant in Porto Portugal that was used in the "New School" Detour. I found and address for Chez Lapin (Rua dos Canastreiros, 40-42), and the Majestic Cafe has its own web site. The third one (where Heather/Eve blocked Andre/Damon in) is called Retiro dos Carvalhos -- there's a good shot of the entrance sign and the TARflies season timeline also lists it that way -- but I can't find any info at all. To help a bit, here's a nice map of old Porto.

I also can't resist pointing out one of my favorite finds: The hotel where Michael and Kathy stayed when their car broke down due to DieselGate. It's the Andalusi Park Hotel, which is located just off the highway that you'd take to Algeciras (but is still about a 3-hour drive away). It also seems to be across the highway from a gas station (satellite image) -- and apparently M and K had stopped at the hotel to change money after they got gas, which is why they broke down there rather than on the highway like the other victims. (Yes, I'm still laughing at you, Aaron.)

I will keep trying to post questions on a regular basis. But please consider any of my past timelines fair game for nit-picking here -- don't feel like you have to wait for me to raise an issue. Thanks again!

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« Last Edit: May 25, 2007, 01:17:39 AM by strategery »


 

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